back to article Obama turns back on spooks: 'I'm on the side of strong encryption'

US President Barack Obama has come out forcefully in favour of strong encryption despite the opposition of his intelligence establishment. Encryption has been a hot topic over recent weeks with Western law enforcement and intelligence agencies complaining about encryption-by-default in modern communication tools such as …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    UK

    I really wish the UK would have a prime minister who understood technology, or even knew what it was. Love him or hate him, Obama makes Cameron and Miliband look like blithering ludditical idiots when it comes to tech.

    1. theModge

      Re: UK

      What do you mean "Look Like"?

      Scarcely before has there been a better definition of the phrase "Doesn't know socket from sodomy" than either of the party leaders. Nor it would seem any of the advisers such as they actually listen to - some one did let Cameron announce that he'd ban encryption after all....

    2. Dan Paul

      Re: UK

      Obama only knows what his minions or teleprompter tell him about technology. Watch how he pauses and stumbles when he has to give an unscrpted answer.

      The only time he comes off as knowledgable, is when he has a script to read from.

      Cameron or Milliband could buy similar consultants.

      1. Nigel The Pigeon

        Re: UK

        "The only time he comes off as knowledgable, is when he has a script to read from. Cameron or Milliband could buy similar consultants."

        I disagree. There is an aspect of that involved for sure. But I can easily find examples of Obama (and many other democrats/republicans too btw) talking about technology unscripted which show they have a decent understanding of it. Whereas I doubt I could find a single example (even scripted ones) where Cameron or Miliband have a clue what they are talking about when it comes to tech.

        The UK is a backward, cave-dwelling, retarded, stick and stone wielding nation where it's government are concerned.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: UK

        You're forgetting Milliband has hired Obama's advisor:

        http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/17/ed-miliband-david-axelrod-adviser-2015-election

        Almost a year ago and I'm yet to be inspired by little Ed

      3. Voland's right hand Silver badge

        Re: UK

        That is light years ahead of our best beloved humanity graduates.

        It means he _KNOWS_ when to ask his minions. This is a considerable achievement compared to knowing what the Daily Mail thinks on the issue and forming an opinion based on that.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: UK

          If you are trying to get elected and more voters in key marginals read the DM than Wired then you base your opinions on what the DM says - that's "democracy"

          1. Fungus Bob
            Coat

            Re: UK

            Wouldn't that be "DM-ocracy"?

    3. NoneSuch Silver badge

      Re: UK

      Interesting how the Presidents cell phone is one specially encrypted by the NSA. I guess the "strong encryption" available on regular cell phones is considered insufficient.

      1. Robert Helpmann??
        Childcatcher

        Re: UK

        Interesting how the Presidents cell phone is one specially encrypted by the NSA.

        There are specific security requirements concerning who handles the data on cell phones used by public officials. I would not expect any official, of any country, who handles sensitive information on their phones to use straight commercial off-the-shelf equipment or to rely on a commercial ISP to handle their accounts.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Refreshingly intelligent statement

    I'm happy there is at least an acknowledgement that it's always a balancing act - I have no heard that voiced so clearly in years.

    However, does this translate into reality or will it just remain words?

    1. JCitizen
      Coffee/keyboard

      Re: Refreshingly intelligent statement

      I have not heard such good words from our President for years! This is the one time since his last election cycle that I've heard such encouraging words! The only way toward freedom in the world is complete informational security for all; including the rebellious lot among us! History has proven that we already had the 911 miscreants in our sights before it happened, but we just had too much protected information gathering in place, to coordinate a defense. Now we have gone ham handed toward the less freedom friendly side of the scale - and not really anymore safer in the whole of it! I would rather have as complete a guarantee of free speech and reasonable expectation of my 4rth, 5th, and 10th Amendment rights; even if it meant a few terrorists got through! Live free or die - I always say! As freely as you chaps on El Reg communicate, I'd expect you'd agree! Maybe not!

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Woohoo

    Can we have Obama as our President and get rid of Dodgey Dave?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Woohoo

      Wait 2 years and you can take Obama off our hands...

  4. chivo243 Silver badge
    Joke

    Which mouth did he say it with?

    The one facing the public, or the one facing the NSA? Really, any politician who says the same thing to everyone can't be trusted by anyone!

    Seriously, he will say to the NSA et al: "You know I'm just giving the public a snow job." "I'm really on your side, wink, wink, nudge!"

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    From what I saw of the conversation, Obama seems to have a more realistic and educated view of how things really are these days.

    Is it just me or does he seem to have pretty much forgone the partisanship that he used to exhibit before he lost the majority in administration. He doesn't seem to care any more about what those idiots in both chambers think and speaks his mind more clearly on a whole range of issues.

    Just a note on the sub headline: he doesn't actually make any moralistic comment on Snowdon himself *or* the disclosures; merely that a mistrust has emerged as a result of them, which is entirely understandable and arguably what Snowdon was trying to achieve anyway.

    1. Nunyabiznes

      It is just you. If you look at the XL pipeline project, anything involving ACA, etc he is still on his warpath. Actually, it isn't so much that he is partisan, but that he seems to think that whatever his administration comes up with is solid gold and no amount of facts, logic or evidence will sway him. Even the private unions are starting to give him subtle hints to ease up. Several democrats are doing the same thing - but I will discount the ones who are positioning themselves for a presidential run.

      Congress certainly has its fair share of buffoons, but Pres. Obama isn't some messiah either.

      1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

        I think you have that wrong. Obama isn't "still on his warpath"...he never has been on one. What the previous poster was trying to get across was that Obama has been towing the party line the whole time. Playing politics, doing what is right for "the Democrats" as a larger entity, and not pushing through what he, Barack Obama, felt was right, good and just.

        And now, the midterms are over and there is no more campaigning he has to do. He is free and clear, and sick of people from both parties stabbing him in the back whenever it's convenient.

        I think it's far more fair to say that Obama is finally on the warpath. After 6 years with his thumb up his ass doing nothing, he's finally out there getting shit done, with no fucks given about the need for the Republicans to "get a win" or whether or not it makes some backbencher Democrat look good. He's got two years to craft his legacy, and damned be the poor fucker that gets in his way.

        And good on 'im. For all his flaws - and they are many - he won't be an eleventy squillionth as bad for the US as his predecessor was. And sadly, that's the best the US can hope for these days.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          on the warpath

          hey trevor how goes it

          not much from you here lately, good to see you are still around.

          what's keeping you busy, anything we'll enjoy reading in the near future?

          1. Trevor_Pott Gold badge

            Re: on the warpath

            Reviews. I've been doing reviews of storage, hyperconverged systems, more storage, more hyperconverged systems and some storage. OH GOD OH GOD THE STORAGE. I have a giant pile of stuff that's "mostly" written, but it keeps getting backburnered by the really nicely high-paying commercial content work I get for...a bunch of storage companies.

            Seriously, I used to do a bunch of Windows stuff. And phones. And...well a lot of things. How did I become Storage Guy? Virtualisation and storage and VDI, oh my!

            Stuff should start showing up soon. I've finally caught up after one of my writers left (very long story), resulting in my having to redo two months' work while still doing two people's worth of regular work during Jan and Feb. By tonight I should be caught up. After that, I put all this testing into article form.

            Storage!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      " a mistrust has emerged as a result of [the disclosures]"

      Scuse me, but the distrust has emerged as a result of the unauthorised and illegal and unconstitutional actions of the agencies. Without them, there'd have been nothin to disclose.

      Hope that helps.

    3. JCitizen
      Mushroom

      Huh?

      Maybe in your narrow point of view yah - but all we hear on this side of the pond is daily, how he has overstepped his authority! But I also notice no one is actually posting a constitutional challenge to what he has done yet. So I reserve any opinions until he is challenged in the courts.

  6. juul

    Sony

    So, if Sony was hacked by the NORKs and the NORKs are no good at offensive cyber war, what does that say about Sony and their security?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Sony

      Well again, Sony seems to have had an unprotected spreadsheet o' passwords on their network, which I am sure greatly helped those who hacked the place. I think that says more about Sony and their accident-waiting-to-happen security than any information about the skill levels of North Korea's cyberwarriors.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Sony

        Sony being hacked by the Norks is far from a given

    2. Tom 35

      Re: Sony

      Says the stock market wanted the money used to "maximizing shareholder value" and not wasted on security.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Clued in or not, still the same

    Whether or not the US President understands tech any further than how to create a contact on his Blackberry, the real problem is that both the US and UK (among others) have military intel agencies who are still going full bore at undermining the security of all our systems. They're the prototypical burglars who leave the lock broken and the door wide open when they leave, allowing even worse sorts to come in after them -- not to mention exposing the interior of your home to windblown snow and ice from the outside. Somewhere between vandalism and extreme dereliction of duty. The mission of these agencies is supposed to be defending their citizens. Instead they're destroying our property and creating even more vulnerabilities than their fawning software and hardware manufacturer partners. But defense is really hard, apparently too hard for anyone to dedicate even a fraction of the hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars/pounds being shoveled into these agencies coffers.

    1. Cynic_999

      Re: Clued in or not, still the same

      "The mission of these agencies is supposed to be defending their citizens."

      No, that's what they claim, not the reality. The prime purpose is to protect and grow their own agency's size and power, which means preventing the government from changing political policies in ways that would adversely affect them, whilst causing change of policies in areas that would benefit them.

      They have whole departments dedicated to the job of finding ways to justify their actions in terms of "protecting the public / defending the country" that are fed to gullible ministers and the public. For less-gullible ministers they lever to be "on message" in other ways - few people at the top of the power ladder are devoid of skeletons in their closet, and if not they can always be manufactured ...

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Holmes

    "...certainly this is true for me and my family, we all want to know that if we’re using a smartphone for transactions, sending messages, having private conversations, that we don’t have a bunch of people compromising that process"

    Well, its good that he understands that encryption is not just some tool used by bad guys, but that it protects EVERYONE's online activities. Being public figures, watered-down encryption would put his family would be even more in the bullseye than the rest of us.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      "...certainly this is true for me and my family, we all want to know that if we’re using a smartphone for transactions, sending messages, having private conversations, that we don’t have a bunch of people compromising that process"

      He doesn't seem to quite grasp that it's true for the rest of us in Europe. Apparently Europe's objections to privacy compromises are based on trying to do down US corporates for commercial reasons.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Syntax

        By supporting legal strong encryption he is at least not preventing you, American or otherwise, from using technology to protect your communication and data. Not his job to protect it for you.

  9. ben kendim

    Come on dude, it's not about the bottom line...

    Mr. President, I walked door to door in the rain in Virginia for you on election day 2008, and was proud when I saw VA turn blue. So I am surprised to hear your justification for strong encryption based on the bottom lines of tech companies. Even if it was really bad for business, strong encryption is still needed. Not that I would much use it, but I want it available for all, including normal people, drug dealers and terrorists.

    As an analogy, drug dealers and terrorists all breathe oxygen. We could get rid of them by poisoning the Earth's atmosphere. We don't do that, do we? So what, terrorists can use strong encryption? Tough cookies. Let law enforcement figure out some other way to catch them without messing in the lives of all citizens.

    I don't even care if it prevents another 9/11, I would rather live in America and take my chances that a nut with a towel wrapped around his head is going to try and kill me, than live in Homelandistan and presume that I am safe from all risk.

    Freedom trumps security, and if I need to risk my life to live as a free citizen, I will take that deal.

    In the last 15 years, we have given law enforcement (especially the local yokels) way too many powers, they need to be put back in their place.

    Oh, and while you are at it, please get rid of the damn TSA too... :-)

  10. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    Snowden disclosures

    “The Snowden disclosures were really harmful in terms of the trust between the government and many of these companies, in part because it had an impact on their bottom lines."

    So doing the spying wasn't harmful - only the disclosure only affected the bottom line ?

  11. Alistair
    Windows

    Obama no longer cares.

    Two terms. He's done.

    I rather suspect that you are now seeing more of that man than you have seen before - in more real terms. It no longer matters one whit to him what anyone thinks - he can no longer serve.

    Furthermore, he knows damned well, from the NSA, FBI, and CIA, that the 39 (or however more were involved) bodies involved in 9/11/01 did not make use of extensive encryption methods. That the terrorists in Iraq and in Syria etc don't use extensive encryption methods. Thus, removing encryption from the public, or "back dooring" it somehow, would not catch a single extra terrorist event happening one second earlier. There is no case, no situation, no event that the police or security forces have come to the media saying "We could not stop this because ...... was encrypted"....

    Recall, he has very likely seen the reports on those events, either first hand or at least in the hands of a direct report. There is no reason for him to not comprehend this.

  12. Sebastian A

    Call me paranoid...

    But am I the only person who thinks the NSA's vocal opposition to encryption is all for show, and they've already compromised the back ends of almost anything worth looking at?

    If the NSA bleat about encryption, then people will assume that means they can't see the comms, and will feel secure planning their next terrorist attack via the usual channels. If they suspect the NSA already has access they may commission custom comms which would be more problematic to spy on.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Call me paranoid...

      They missed Heartbleed, and probable POODLE and ShellShock as well. All the off-the-record dodging about who knew what when backs that up. NSA and their partners are very good at crafting focused attacks, not so good at assessing and limiting collateral damage. It's not that they're lazy, the just don't care, or rather their managers don't. The science of crypto makes it difficult for the spooks to deal with encrypted communications on a mass scale. Even with acres of computers in massive data centers I doubt they've scratched the surface of that massive haystack they're trying to search for a few terrorist needles. The truth is, no matter how much the generals, admirals and politicians don't want to hear it, spec ops and spymaster boots on the ground is the only effective means to run our enemies to ground. Blanket surveillance of the world is never going to cut it, no matter how cool and profitable (for vendors) it might seem.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Snowden and Obama

    What a pair of A$$ clowns.

  14. MrDamage Silver badge

    Yeah, he's all for strong encrytion.

    Just like he was all for closing Gitmo, and we all know how quickly that place was shut down.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Missing the important point

    “The Snowden disclosures were really harmful in terms of the trust between the government and many of these companies, in part because it had an impact on their bottom lines."

    Blithely skipping over the fundamental point that the disclosures confirmed that distrust was warranted.

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