Telstra's NBN boondoggle nearly set in stone: reports Reports are emerging that the builder of Australia's national broadband network, NBN Co, has all-but struck a deal with Telstra over access to last-mile copper, plus a separate arrangement to absorb the country's cable broadband networks. The deals are reportedly so advanced they'll be tabled at a cabinet meeting, perhaps even …
it is doubtful that you would recoup the value since there is no evidence of buyers paying a premium to live in suburbs on the fibre map. The reason for this can be found in Labor's old Corporate Plans where they predicted that 50% of people on FTTP would opt for the slowest 12/1Mbps speed tier. The draft of their last plan showed that it was one of their more accurate estimates with 47% on 12/1Mbps.
The good news is that it is likely to be less than 1% of the average home value to install fibre, but probably only worth it if living in a non HFC area and 50Mbps is inadequate.
Consider this: All the Liberals need to do is abolish the 12Mbps speed tier or eliminate speed tiers on FTTN and the average network speed will be faster than Labor's plan.
Sadly, Telstra was privatised in three different stages, informally known as "T1", "T2" and "T3" in 1997, 1999 and 2006 respectively. T3 dropped public ownership from 51% to 17%. In 2009, another $2.4 billion worth of shares were sold, reducing the government's stake in Telstra to 10.9%. In August 2011, the remaining Telstra shares were sold, effectively completing Telstra's privatisation.
That is why we are in this current mess.
The money outlaid for old obsolete infrastructure, and the value placed on same, seem exorbitant.
When is someone gonna point out the bleeding obvious? That is ...
<<<<We could have gotten a full fibre to the premises network for less than we are paying for this MTM turkey. >>>>
Perhaps a vast number of our current LNP politicians, looking down the barrel at a one term government, are simply feathering their own nests for retirement ... and ever so lucrative Telstra and NBN directorships? That's the ONLY reason I can think of for persisting with this farce.
Honestly, I would really prefer that they called a halt to the whole thing, saved the money and used it to fill in their numerous self inflicted Budget holes (if Tony doesn't blow another $12 billion on more fighter planes that don't fly, or Hockey doesn't give the Reserve Bank another $10 billion or so to play with) ... and left the project for the future to take care of.
When it can be done properly, and will become an asset for the nation.
Because at the moment - it has all the hallmarks of an economic, ideological and technical debacle.
> We could have gotten a full fibre to the premises network for less than we are paying for this MTM turkey.
This assumes you think the estimates from the previous government were correct.
> Hockey doesn't give the Reserve Bank another $10 billion or so to play with
I think you meant repay the money taken from the Reserve Bank in a futile attempt by Labor to balance the budget.
> When it can be done properly, and will become an asset for the nation.
I agree with that, but the reality of Labor's plan was 50% connected at 12Mbps and almost no one on 1Gbps. Too many people have been distracted by the shiny fibre and failed to actually read what Labor were promising.
the reality of Labor's plan was 50% connected at 12Mbps and almost no one on 1Gbps. Too many people have been distracted by the shiny fibre and failed to actually read what Labor were promising.
Apologies if I've misunderstood you, but Labor's plan promised everyone the choice of any speed they wanted.
> Apologies if I've misunderstood you, but Labor's plan promised everyone the choice of any speed they wanted.
This is the true in the same way that anyone in Australia can buy a Ferrari, yet most people drive something a tenth of the price because it is adequate. So yes a few people would have 1Gbps connections. Labor's predication was less than 5% in 2028. The reality is because of Labor's AVC / CVC pricing model even though NBNCo made 1Gbps plans available at wholesale level in Dec 2013 there are none available at a retail level because the cost would be ridiculous.
I'll also point out that people in small regional towns (<1000 premises) would have been significantly worse off because their ADSL would have been disconnected and replaced with wireless. Most homes in rural townships are very close to the telephone exchange so FTTN speeds would have been good, but Labor's ideological path prevented this option.
I'm trying to figure out how offering a choice in speed somehow discolours labors network.
sure their bull headed drive to remove ADSL type services from rural townships would have been stupid, but they didn't get that far with it. Don't think VDSL would have worked there without large investment though. Of the number of rural centers I've been through and worked in their density would work against FTTN VDSL.
That aside, you're argument is that only those who can afford it will be early adopters of higher speeds. Ok so you're saying its a bad thing that it costs so much? it's like you haven't compared it to anything else and just called it expensive. At least its available with FTTP NBN without retrofit. If I want 1Gbps with FTTN what do I do? not get it, and if VDSL ever gets that good, oh, just replace all the cabinets...
But compare NBN Gbps with anything offering even say 400Mbps. Sure I can go e-line but that'd run more than a million a year. I guess if NBN 1000/400 costs are compared to a ferrari then eline 1000/1000 is a death star? or US war machine at least.
I'm moving away from an NBN enabled house as the house is crap and the wife is over it. If I wanted to keep any kind of upload speed - which is what I like, esp for work - I don't have a single option that costs less than a tenth my current plan. Try to get the reliability of fibre and suddenly I'm installing.. fibre as eline or ATM. the install cost alone would pay for my plan for NBN 15 years.
so to me the NBN isn't expensive (actually I forgot another obvious point - I'll be moving to offnet ADSL2 with iiNet and it will, thanks to line rental, cost $15 a month more than my 100/40 plan with the same download limits) and people pay for what they need. Giving people the option is capitalism, does that make FTTN communist junk? (answer, no just junk will do)
if you want to address reliability next feel free.
> That aside, you're argument is that only those who can afford it will be early adopters of higher speeds. Ok so you're saying its a bad thing that it costs so much?
Restricting access to high speeds is firstly bad for the country because it limits what people can do with the network. If you only have a 12/1Mbps connection then eHealth, HD video conferencing, etc. are out. Secondly it makes a mockery of what Labor promised, because only a very limited few would ever experience the benefits.
> If I want 1Gbps with FTTN what do I do?
Install direct fibre. At ~$5000 with RSPs already offering to spread payments across a 2 year contract not much of issue when compared with Labor's AVC pricing.
> so to me the NBN isn't expensive
It isn't expensive to me either, but chances are you are earning above average wages which means your connection could be described as middle class welfare.
> Restricting access to high speeds is firstly bad for the country because it limits what people can do with the network. If you only have a 12/1Mbps connection then eHealth, HD video conferencing, etc. are out. Secondly it makes a mockery of what Labor promised, because only a very limited few would ever experience the benefits.
the FTTN network restricts access to high speeds by being not fit for purpose. until I know upload speeds FTTN is just as bad as 12/1, or worse when in reality it drops out in bad weather.
that non-withstanding, if you need to offer ehealth you subsidise the faster plans with the savings of ehealth delivery. but that would be clever thinking...
lastly, 50% opt for higher than 12/1. yet you say only a very limited few will get the benefits? is that like saying only a very limited few will opt for 12/1?
if FTTP 100/40 is cheaper NOW than luck of the draw ADSL2 then it is cheaper overall (download quotas the same, naturally). the fact that people can be even cheaper and pay even less to have 12/1 is their choice, if they have no need for ehealth and so on then they are better off overall. you have to be arguing the worst off should pay more so the bottom rung is more equal? while the middle classes (like say myself as you identified) are worse off as we don't get to choose anymore. Sure when i'm upper middle class and own property maybe i'll give less fucks, but right now i see FTTN as a way a lot of people will get screwed over, including myself as a renter.
I'll also point out that people in small regional towns (<1000 premises) would
Assuming thats true ( i have no data to say otherwise) Wouldnt the appropriate response be to invest in fttn in these area and continue with FTTP everywhere else is was viable?
Surely your across the whole problem that the copper in many many places is old and deteroiated, which is why the upgrade program came a long in the first place, telstra sure as hell werent going to reinvest in australia. FTTN to most of the nation wont solve that fundmental issue to our communications, and were not likely to see the speeds promised in many places purely because the copper isnt capbable of transfering it.
$41 billion dollars for a ADSL to VDSL upgrade
Well finally getting the NBN connected in Jan. Telstra DOT needs to be hooked up to it. Yes. We already have that product. It needs to be hooked up....Hmmm isnt that a matter of plugging it in?
I guess we get the answer when telstra turns up, in MAY! WTF!
Common sense solutions? I feel Telstra's playing games for fun and pofit, NBN experience will be crap, in every way that they can make it.
So bend over Australia. Its going to hurt!
The Austfailian Governmunt unveils a new Intertubes-to-the-hovel scheme agreed personally with Fox, the big movie studios and other copyright owners called 'Damper-Net'. The cheap infrastructure, conservatively quoted by Telstra to be worth $23beelion Austfailian pesetos is based on CSIRO-developed fibre infrastructure, invented by DNA testing of the unique fibres harvested from the unique Austfailian animal known as the 'sheep' or ('girlfriend' in some parts) combined with the latest results of the spectacular Austfailian mining industry - the steel can.
Also...
Telstra washes out telecoms pit in suburban Sydney with a FIREHOSE for the third time this year. Yes, washing out a switch frame, with WATER. If I wasn't in traffic and thus liable to be thrown in jail for using digital technology while moving I would have been able to provide pics.
> The Austfailian Governmunt unveils a new Intertubes-to-the-hovel scheme agreed personally with Fox, the big movie studios and other copyright owners called 'Damper-Net'.
Once you are above 12Mbps streaming works, since the minimum is supposed to be 25Mbps I don't see how the movie studios have anything to benefit from the difference between 25 & 100Mbps, especially when you consider that HFC will offer 100Mbps and that covers the biggest market regions.
Now if you had talked about Telstra imposing speed caps on ADSL1, to prevent VoIP on the slower speeds and video streaming on even the highest 1.5Mbps speed then I would agree.
I refer you back to my previous comment about being distracted by the "shiny light" and ignoring the technical reality.
Isn't the point that 12Mb/s is quite hard to achieve with ADSL ot large populations? I only get about half that. Cable TV works but its shared, so the contention for non-broadcast traffic is higher. Fibre is the only sensible way to do high-speed networking over long distances in high concentrations. That's why we use it in the data centre and for corporate WANs.
We know that fibre is overkill for most internet needs, but the point for Oz is that there has been a politcal decision made to push internet usage and the existing copper isn't up to it. If you have to replace copper it makes sense to invest for the future beyond what the market would do (which is what government should be doing) rather than take the simple and profitable route of upgrading the copper with new copper to allow the continuing market segmentation.
There are halo effects too. Even if fibre is too expensive in places, the mere fact that fibre is a larger part of the market should make it more affordable and increases skill availability.
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