back to article No more free Windows... and now it’s all about the services

Microsoft won’t give Windows 10 away for free, and plans to charge for new services instead. That’s according to salesman-in-chief Kevin Turner, who promised new services would roll out in early 2015. Microsoft's chief operating officer was grilled by one investor at a recent Wall Street conference who wondered whether the …

  1. Amorous Cowherder
    Joke

    Windows in kit form?

    So I take it from that the core is a basic cost and anything else unimportant like networking, installing graphics drivers, mouse/keyboard support, start menu, etc will each be a cost option bought on demand?!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Coat

      Re: Windows in kit form?

      Some sort of nickel-and-dime scheme like that, I take it.

      Run.... far, far away.

    2. Joerg

      Re: Windows in kit form?

      Yeah. It's a huge scam. That is what the Indian CEO genius was able to think of ... worse than Ballmer.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows in kit form?

        "That is what the Indian CEO genius was able to think of ... worse than Ballmer."

        No, it's a Ballmer idea through and through.

        When Microsoft fucked up with Vista, they eventually released a fairly bug free version called "Windows 7". But any suckers who had Vista had to pay again to have fault-fixed version. Having looked at their accounts and noticed no financial harm from pissing off customers with this plan, they now declare they intend to repeat it. Windows 8 was a botch, 8.1 was a botch, and 8.1 Update was a botch. Throughout they refused to listen to customers. But, when they release a "fixed" version of 8, (the erstwhile Windows 10), all the suckers with W8 will be expected to shell out all over again.

      2. chekri

        Re: Windows in kit form?

        "Indian CEO genius"? Did you ever call Jobs an "American CEO Genius" or Elop a "Canadian CEO Genius"?

        How does his being Indian come into this Joerg? Not saying you are racist, just curious as to why you felt a need to identify his race as part of your criticism of his performance as a CEO?

        1. Joerg

          Re: Windows in kit form?

          The real racism is trying to sell Indian people as IT geniuses and such which they are not. It's a scam in the industry. And this CEO proves it once again.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Windows in kit form?

            Guess which commentard got outsourced

            1. JDX Gold badge

              Re: Windows in kit form?

              Some of these very cheap W8 "laplets" are really very nice if you don't need a big disk. Cheaper than an iPad and running full-fat Windows reasonably smoothly.

    3. JeffyPoooh
      Pint

      Win 8.1 tablet "...priced around $199..."

      The HP Stream 7 tablet with Win 8.1 (real Intel version, not RT) was on offer for $99 Cdn with free shipping recently. Even the regular price is only $119 Cdn with free shipping. ONE hundred, not two. $199 would recently get you a Asus EeeBook (X205TA) small lovely laptop, again shipped. $49 for Win Blu Jr phone, no contract, unlocked, do as you please, again shipped. Cdn dollarettes, not even US$.

      It's like a war zone. Microsoft is stepping all over Google's stupidly high pricing of their Nexus devices. Considering how crash prone the Chrome browser has become, I'd have to move MS way up the chart and Google way down. Google has become a bit frustrating lately.

      Welcome back MS. Missed you. Glad to see you've reinstalled your brain.

      Posted from my Nexus 7, Hey look! Chrome hasn't locked up for almost an hour! Wow...

    4. BongoJoe

      Re: Windows in kit form?

      Are you describing an operating system or a Pay To Win MMO game?

  2. Joerg

    And Microsoft is going to go bankrupt...

    Also.. when did Microsoft ever give Windows away for free ?

    Adobe with its subscription DRM cloud crap is already a shame.

    But Microsoft has no Photoshop, Autocad or Maya monopoly to use. Windows is no Autocad or Photoshop.

    Businesses will avoid upgrading for a long time. And consumers won't even bother considering an upgrade.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: And Microsoft is going to go bankrupt...

      "Windows is no Autocad or Photoshop."

      No - Windows is far more popular. And they have Office too.

  3. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    Does not make sense?

    Quote

    Microsoft won’t give Windows 10 away for free, and plans to charge for new services instead.

    Shouldn't that be something like

    Microsoft won’t give Windows 10 away for free, and also plans to charge for new services.

    1. dogged

      Re: Does not make sense?

      It's a Gavin Clarke article - you expect garbled bullshit.

      Paul Thurrott (who actually understands a little about software - which is infinitely more than Our Gav) explains it as similar to the Media Center pack shipped alongside Win8. You can get the codecs but people who don't need them don't pay for them. It's pretty easy to imagine extending this to something like Active Directory or HyperV support.

      Mind you, I'd certainly hope that a SKU which did not include those would be free.

      1. joed

        Re: Does not make sense?

        The real problem with Media Center is/was that it required Pro license (wtf I say). In the end, they've accomplished their unspoken plan of killing it. Yep - I may need/like to pony up a tenner for WMC but not a 100 for Pro license (and then few more yet for WMC). So goes the notion of paying for what you need, they'll always try to bundle the crap and the subscription option is ridiculous for something that every user keeps indefinitely. That's unless your plan is to keep it just long enough to download and test Linux distro and get rid of MS tax altogether. I hope this will be the outcome, especially now that Windows became a web browser platform with 0 value added until you dropped more into Windows Store.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @joed - Re: Does not make sense?

          No, siree! Secure boot will make sure you don't test any *nix/*bsd on that hardware you bought. You didn't see it coming did you ?

          1. dogged
            Stop

            Re: @joed - Does not make sense?

            > Secure boot will make sure you don't test any *nix/*bsd on that hardware you bought.

            No it won't, you troll. The only thing Secure Boot locks down to the point where you can't switch it off is the Surface RT and exactly which linux you'd put on that, I don't know. Same one as you put on your iPad, maybe.

            FUD FUD FUD FUD.... ah, I remember the days when *nix activists hated FUD. Now some of them seem to use it as their primary weapon.

            1. Tim Bates

              Re: @joed - Does not make sense?

              "No it won't, you troll. The only thing Secure Boot locks down to the point where you can't switch it off is the Surface RT"

              Really? I guess you don't need to boot anything much on random x86 devices every day then. They already make Secure Boot a "Where's Wally" game, and some manufacturers have already failed at UEFI booting anything other than their own Windows 8 images.... It's only a matter of time before manufacturers start hiding the Secureboot option, even if only by accident.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Does not make sense?

          Yup, I'm sure re-training 300 support staff and 3,500 users on Linux, plus converting all our current and legacy documentation, finding the support services needed etc will produce a saving in time to avoid Win 300 or something, possibly after we're dead......but not exactly a saving is it?

          1. Jess

            Re: re-training 300 support staff and 3,500 users on Linux,

            as opposed to retraining them on Windows 8.1 or OS X?

          2. Col_Panek

            Re: Does not make sense?

            Sounds like you're more concerned about the firing of the IT staff who are clueless about Linux.

          3. Jagged

            Re: Does not make sense?

            Why would I need to retain users when everything (and I mean everything) is done through the cloud and web browser?

  4. dalchina

    Ongoing revenue stream...

    How often are people going to keep upgrading to a new OS with a one-off cost? How much essential need will there be for a major new OS in the medium term?

    So you may need to subscribe to:

    - the Windows store (for secure/safe software which can be reinstalled easily when you break Windows badly enough to have to reinstall)

    - Windows updates (no longer free)

    - some form of media access

    One development I doubt we'll see is making Windows fundamentally more robust. Still programs can write almost willy-nilly to Windows folders; user data is scattered around the OS. The registry is a complete mix of user and OS items. With Win 8, you can't perform a repair install any more. The ideal would be complete separation of OS and user so the OS could be separately maintained. Sadly such a robust model seems to have little market appeal. I mean- it would destroy user forums, PC tech services, halve the staff needed in IT departments... save ordinary users a huge amount of confusion.. I'd pay for such an OS!

    1. admiraljkb

      Re: Ongoing revenue stream...

      Ongoing revenue stream is indeed what its all about. Subscription revenues from the cloud man! Lets face it, so far it is generating some impressive new revenue for them.

      I could be wrong, but I'm suspecting that with Nadella's current cloudy focus areas - Windows 10 will be the LAST true Windows desktop OS. (building an OS from scratch is an expensive, time/profit consuming, and thankless business.) With Nadella at the helm, if there is another Windows release after 10, I fully expect them to follow Apple's example and outsource the underpinnings to BSD Unix for some serious cost savings (ie reduced staffing), and then just be responsible for the GUI, API's and MS Services (like AD and Exchange) where the easy profits are, and where their core competencies (1) are.

      1)--ok after Win8, count GUI as a *former* core competency. :)

    2. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: Ongoing revenue stream...

      Very well said especially about the way files for products are spread around the disk.

      Perhaps someone might like to tell Microsoft about this themselves.

      Office for OSX does exactly that very same thing.

      Shame really because that version is IMHO far better than the Windows version.

      The other downside the OSX product is that it binds itself to the Disk Serial Number. HDD goes bad? Change the HDD for an SSD? Then that TimeMachine backup is useless. Well, everything will work apart from Office. It is a full removal and re-install. Thankfully, there is a document on the MS support site that telly you where all the nooks and crannies the installer has put stuff.

      If you think that MS Shot itself in the foot with TIFKAM then moving to a Buy the OS and Subsctibe/Buy Patches Model is a huge cannon ball dropping from a great height.

      Again, this is a shame because once you get past those silly tiles (IMHO) and the messed up config panels the underlying OS is pretty good.

      1. T. F. M. Reader

        Re: Ongoing revenue stream...

        Very well said especially about the way files for products are spread around the disk.

        Maybe they will finally comply to the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard? Hope dies last...

    3. hoverboy

      Re: Ongoing revenue stream...

      To be fair to MS, one of the ideas behind the Metro app model was that all apps would run in sandboxed memory and whilst the registry is very much alive and well in W8, access to it and to the filesystem is at least better controlled with the Metro apps.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @dalchina - Re: Ongoing revenue stream...

      Once you're locked-in to Windows, robustness or security is no longer Microsoft's concern.

    5. nematoad
      Linux

      Re: Ongoing revenue stream...

      "The ideal would be complete separation of OS and user so the OS could be separately maintained. "

      See; /BIN, /USR, /HOME . It's in an OS called Linux.

      " I'd pay for such an OS!"

      No need, see above.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Ongoing revenue stream...

      "Still programs can write almost willy-nilly to Windows folders;"

      No they can't.

      "user data is scattered around the OS."

      No it isn't.

      "The registry is a complete mix of user and OS items"

      So all configuration is in one place then.

      "The ideal would be complete separation of OS and user so the OS could be separately maintained"

      That's already how it works on Windows by default.

      Troll much?

  5. jnemesh

    It will be a cold day in hell...

    before I pay a "subscription" for an OS! Last I checked, Linux is free...and everything I want to run can be run either natively or through WINE on that platform.

    1. Synonymous Howard

      Re: It will be a cold day in hell...

      You clearly have not bought Red-Hat then ... Talk about expensive 'subscriptions'

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Oliver Jones - Re: It will be a cold day in hell...

        Then pay for Windows and let us use whatever we might fancy. We can still be friends you know...

        Oh, and 2% is fine with me, it still makes some millions of PC running Linux.

      2. Tim Bates

        Re: It will be a cold day in hell...

        "but Linux has a ~2% desktop market "

        I never really believe percentages quoted for Linux market shares...

        You can't go off sales volumes for pretty obvious reasons.

        You can't use browser agent IDs because not everyone uses the internet in the same ways.

        You can't do a survey because a lot of people think "Word 7" is an operating system.

        I've got a few Linux desktops that never see the internet, or only ever see ftp.debian.org. Who's counting those?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It will be a cold day in hell...

      "Linux is free..."

      Only if your time has no value. And only if you don't want an enterprise grade supported version...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @AC - Re: It will be a cold day in hell...

        It's not Linux that is free, it's you, mate! You are free to pay for support or not, you have a choice!

      2. Col_Panek

        Re: It will be a cold day in hell...

        That canard is ten years out of date.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It will be a cold day in hell...

        lol... Windows installation is an all-day affair. Licensing/activation, finding drivers, fumbling around in cryptic GUIs, googling for information which is usually wrong. Screw that. If it didn't come preinstalled on every new PC nobody would use it at all.

        I've seen some crappy Linux installers but the decent ones take under an hour.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: It will be a cold day in hell...

          " Windows installation is an all-day affair. Licensing/activation, finding drivers, fumbling around in cryptic GUIs"

          It takes about ten minutes to fully install a current version of Windows Server - including adding a RAID driver if required and activation from your KMS. It sounds like you are a bit out of date - Windows Server doesn't have a GUI by default these days - and that was an option since Server 2008.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It will be a cold day in hell...

        "Only if your time has no value".

        Because my (free/work) time is valuable to me, I stopped supporting my friends and colleagues personal computers/laptops with Microsoft Windows installed. If they want a desktop and support its Linux or nothing. You have no idea how many are converted...with enterprise grade support from me...

  6. Michael Habel

    The Dinosaur in the Room.

    If this really is the best that MicroSoft can come up with then goodnight.

    There's almost no reason anymore to run a huge power hunters PC anymore. When Phablets can pretty much get the job done. There are some tasks that Pablets can't do. For that we have Intel NUCs and other smaller lower power ARM Devices that can run Linux.

    Given all that I guess all they have left is to squeeze what's left ofit of their users. 'Cause everyone else will have jumped Ship by the time Windows 7 hits its EoL, in ca 2019.

    I fail to see how MicroSoft can ever get back on their 90s/00s track ever again.

    1. admiraljkb

      Re: The Dinosaur in the Room.

      >I fail to see how MicroSoft can ever get back on their 90s/00s track ever again.

      based on Nadella's moves so far- he's killing the old MS, and initiating a new post Windows one. Heaven knows if it'll get them back to previous glories, but if nothing else, it'll keep MS in the game versus getting pushed out entirely. I agree that its unlikely they will ever have that level of dominance again.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    £? $?

    If its 10 quid a disk then.......

    1. Col_Panek

      Re: £? $?

      You're going to be on the monthly plan? Good. I'll be around next month to see if you want to try Linux for free, or pay Microsoft again.

  8. Tomislav

    So Windows becomes DLC based? You buy a barebones version and then just buy modules you need? Start Menu? Sure, $5. Control Panel? You do not really need it, but we will sell it to you for just $3.

    1. Col_Panek

      Shut off Clippy?

      That's an extra 5 quid.

      Per month.

      1. Michael Habel

        Re: Shut off Clippy?

        Per Week! fixed gthat for you...

  9. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    Thanks Microsoft for stopping this policy

    "Also.. when did Microsoft ever give Windows away for free ?"

    If you read TFA, they started giving Windows (8/8.1 I suppose) away for free starting in April for OEMs making devices with under 9 inch screens. They have either significantly discounted or given away Windows 7 and XP in the past as well.

    For example, netbooks were shipping with Linux; Microsoft basically killed the netbook market by 1) Releasing Windows cheap or free for them... I think then itwas also based on 9-inch screen limit and 1GB RAM limit (initially Windows XP, well after the point when they were supposedly going to stop selling it) ... 2) Vendors found the netbook than ran Linux fine was inadequate for running Windows (especially Windows 7). 3) The OEMs then bumped the specs up on these netbooks, all of a sudden that ~$200 netbook cost like $500+, which put it out of the price range of really being considered a netbook; so they no longer sold well.

    I'm pleased that Microsoft has given up on this ploy. Please, Microsoft, play fair in the market, give people Windows if they want and let them not get Windows if they don't want it. Thanks.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    With love to our fellows Windows users!

    I dedicate you this small nugget from Microsoft CFO Kevin Turner speech to investors at Credit Suisse Technology Conference :

    You're seeing $99 Windows tablets, embracing and extending the ecosystem by lighting up some of these new business model scenarios, allowing us to monetize the lifetime of that customer through services and different add-ons that we're able to be able to incorporate with that solution.

    Pay attention especially to the sublime words "to monetize the lifetime of that customer".

    1. P. Lee

      Re: With love to our fellows Windows users!

      >Pay attention especially to the sublime words "to monetize the lifetime of that customer".

      Nice intent for them, but consoles have a lot of the games market and consumers have shown they can do without MS, by using their fruity and robot devices. MS will be back to their business market. A profitable one, but how long will it hold up, when no-one grows up with it?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: With love to our fellows Windows users!

        "A profitable one, but how long will it hold up, when no-one grows up with it?"

        Given the assumption that "business" means "bottomless bucket of money", I suspect the lack of people growing up with it won't be the only issue. We're already struggling to sell MS products to business customers who stuck with XP for years, and that's before they ask how much.

    2. RandomFactor
      Black Helicopters

      Re: With love to our fellows Windows users!

      Monetizing people's lifetimes...wait is this a company or the government?

  11. 0laf

    You can get a 7" tablet with full windows 8.1 Bing for £59 here now. And that includes a £60 Office 365 licence and 20% vat. Unsurprisingly they're selling rather quickly.

    I wonder if Ms will continue to give away cheap windows to get their OS adopted again?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "to get their OS adopted again?"

      Erm - but they still have over 90% desktop market share, and 75% x86 server market share.

      1. JulieM Silver badge
        Paris Hilton

        Microsoft have 75% of x86 server market share?!

        I would like to see where you got this figure from, because I think you might have missed a decimal point out.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "I would like to see where you got this figure from, because I think you might have missed a decimal point out."

          See http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2013/01/09/an-overview-why-microsofts-worth-42/

  12. JulieM Silver badge

    Hmmmm

    They might not be giving it away this time, and I don't blame them for that; but I wouldn't actually put it past Microsoft to Open Source Windows eventually. They would be in a position to avoid fragmentation *if* they made sure that everyone knew that Office (even reputedly) only worked properly on their own "certified" distribution. Vendors of things like CAD, telephony, database and other software won't want to create their own OS distributions if doing so risks breaking the sacred Word or Excel likely to be wanted by a developer on their workstation. They would much rather pass their own necessary improvements upstream. PHBs will still pay for Official Microsoft Windows Enterprise Editions. The only people who will be using the Free versions of "Open Windows" will be the ones who most probably would have been using pirated versions anyway -- the difference is, now, they can be useful as bug-hunters.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    Win8 Surface value

    £99 for Win8 RT pad only has value if you can root the sod and stick something useful on.

  14. BongoJoe
    Coat

    Paid For Services

    If any of these Paid For Services include Service Packs, Updates, Security Plugs and the like then looking at the very recent history of these I think I will be far, far better off by not subscribing to these.

    At the moment I would prefer to pay not to receive any improvements from Microsoft.

    1. JulieM Silver badge

      Re: Paid For Services

      Not quite as cunning as a fox who has just been appointed professor of cunning at Oxford University, I'm afraid. I see one tiny flaw in your plan.

      Some of these "upgrades" almost certainly will be backwards-incompatible.

      Think what happens now, in the days when you run your own apps on your own computer, nd Microsoft introduce a new version of Office: All the file formats change, forcing users to upgrade if they want to be able to read files saved out of newer versions of the same software. Therefore, you'll have to persuade people to go through a laborious process just to save a file in a format that you can use -- even although their computer ought to know already from the file metadata that the original was created using an older version and be able to do the conversion on the fly if they tried to e-mail it to you. But after all, that would defeat the whole point of the exercise -- which is to force you to upgrade your software.

      Now imagine it's all remotely hosted in "The Cloud" -- and they have the ability to stop you using their software altogether if you stop paying for the right to use it. Maybe if they were feeling *very* nice, they could let you continue to *view* your old documents, at least until such time as they needed the storage space for other, paying customers.

      Whether or not people will stand for being held openly to ransom like that, remains to be seen.

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