back to article Mozilla releases geolocating WiFi sniffer for Android

Mozilla has released a new app, Stumbler, that “collects GPS data for our location service” by detecting WiFi access points and mobile phone cells towers, then “uses these wireless network locations to provide geolocation services for Firefox OS devices and other open source projects.” That sort of data collection has, of …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Tired

    Meh. Typed out a long post about why this bothers me. Looked at my android phone, then realised was pointless.

    I did kind of hope firefoxOS would be in more of a privacy is good area... But Mozilla have now shot this down. Their attitude to privacy joins everyone else's. Shame.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  2. Chairo
    Meh

    No need to panic

    But there's still plenty of potential for folks to worry – and scream – about the fact that just about any Android can now sniff networks.

    There is already a plethora of WiFi sniffer apps in the playstore. They are quite handy to optimize access point set up and installation.

    Google got into trouble by reading and recording traffic data packages from open access points, not for mapping access points, in the first place.

    That said, there might be some patents on geomapping of WiFi access points, so Mozilla should still carefully check things with their legal department.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: No need to panic

      No they shouldn't because damages will be three times as much.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. Looper
      FAIL

      Re: No need to panic

      Of course there is "need" to panic. Now the default mode is to spy on every wifi network and pass on its precise location via GPS to whoever controls the software doing the snooping to add to whoever they sell that database to. Every particle of identifiable information can be used to pinpoint you via your wifi, location, ip provider, fonts installed etc. No need to panic indeed.

      Second major issue is droid tracking all app users as they go about their business unaware of this setting. Then again Mozilla did have an ex-NSA chief as one of their founders. Infiltrated right from the start.

      As far as I'm concerned, everything US-based is part of their revolving door between government and corporate. None of whom can be trusted.

      1. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: No need to panic

        "Now the default mode is to spy on every wifi network and pass on its precise location via GPS "

        It's not particularly accurate. My access points show up as being over 200 metres from where they really are.

        All it's doing is noting where certain SSIDs can be picked up and attempting to triangulate based on signal strength (not direction) across multiple devices - which all have different calibration.

        _IF_ all they're doing is listening to beacons then there's no issue. If you don't like it, switch off your beacon - but even if I switched mine off I can see 20 others on the street outside.

  3. Neil Barnes Silver badge
    Stop

    Let me get this right?

    Mozilla want me|you to install an application on a smartphone which will, as we wander around, sniff any wireless points as we pass, and hand that information off to Mozilla?

    Hmm.

    It strikes me that it's often very good for me to know where I am, and an extra method of finding out is probably not a bad idea, but that it's very bad for anyone else to know where I am and where I've been.

    Dear Mozilla (and everyone else who feels this is a good idea), no. Mind your own bloody business.

    1. Amphibious RawCod

      Re: Let me get this right?

      This. +10

    2. Alan Edwards

      Re: Let me get this right?

      > Mozilla want me|you to install an application on a smartphone which will, as we wander

      > around, sniff any wireless points as we pass, and hand that information off to Mozilla?

      Sort of. It's recording the SSID (the public name that comes up in the network list) of wireless networks and the GPS location where it spotted it. Not sure how it's going to tell one 'linksys' or 'netgear' from the rest though. It doesn't record traffic

      > that it's very bad for anyone else to know where I am and where I've been.

      Turn the location services off then. Added bonus, you'll get better battery life - turning GPS off on my Fire HDX adds about 2 hours run time according to the power management app.

      1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

        Re: Let me get this right?

        Astonishly enough, the first thing I did was to turn off location services - followed immediately afterwards by network data access and wifi. The battery life is almost fine now.

        This in spite of the fact that the only application I have installed is Navigator (no, not Netscape).

        It was not my understanding that messages would be read, just SSID and matches to GPS locations. But there's something there that creeps me out: knowing where every Wifi point in the world is doesn't sit well with me; bad enough they want to know where I am; worse that they expect me to weave the net that will trap me.

        I wonder why it is that my use-case for so much modern technology is at odds from the rest of the world? Do you not *care*?

      2. Jordan Davenport

        Re: Let me get this right?

        Sort of. It's recording the SSID (the public name that comes up in the network list) of wireless networks and the GPS location where it spotted it. Not sure how it's going to tell one 'linksys' or 'netgear' from the rest though. It doesn't record traffic

        I very much imagine it's looking at the ESSID (the name) since it's clearly looking for _nomap but actually recording the BSSID (the MAC address), so it can distinguish five separate "linksys" networks in a single neighborhood.

      3. Looper
        FAIL

        Re: Let me get this right?

        "It's recording the SSID (the public name that comes up in the network list) of wireless networks and the GPS location where it spotted it. Not sure how it's going to tell one 'linksys' or 'netgear' from the rest though. It doesn't record traffic"

        You do know that your unique identity can be derived from among other things, the set of fonts you have installed on your computer?

        What makes you think that adding your possibly unique SSID, definitively unique router MAC address, and GPS location doesn't give them your exact location? Every part of your profile identifies you more and more accurately. The problem with this is using every droid's GPS to pinpoint your exact geographical location. So much for using Tor.

        Add to this the "anonymous" handle you use to troll nonsense in forums, and you are known and pinpointed. Case closed.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Let me get this right?

      Are they still getting money from Google?

    4. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Let me get this right?

      "Mozilla want me|you to install an application on a smartphone which will, as we wander around, sniff any wireless points as we pass,"

      Do people still wander around all day with the phone WIFi switched on?

  4. getHandle
    Coat

    Stumblr?

    Sounds like a dating app for drunk people.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Stumblr?

      As opposed to a drunk app for dating people called Fumblr.

  5. ratfox
    Devil

    Mozilla Foundation doesn't sling ads and is usually more altruistic than Google

    …Thanks to the large amounts of funding they receive from a big well-known internet advertising company.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    WTF?

    Quote from Mozilla's site

    "At Mozilla, we have a long history of taking privacy seriously. It’s front and center in every piece of software we make."

    To opt out add “_nomap” to the end of an SSID's name...

    So opt out rather than opt in.

    So remind me how these two tally up?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Stop

      Re: So remind me how these two tally up?

      They don't...

      Forcing EVERYONE to change their SSID just because Mozilla says so is the height of invasion of privacy...

      I think i'd rather reconfigure my router to NOT transmit an SSID at all...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So remind me how these two tally up?

        If you have no SSID then the BSSID will be recorded instead.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: So remind me how these two tally up?

          Just change your SSID everytime you reboot or replace your router, I guess.

          1. Looper
            FAIL

            Re: So remind me how these two tally up?

            "Just change your SSID everytime you reboot or replace your router, I guess"

            You guess wrong. The unique MAC address will be recorded no matter what you do. Your only option is to put _nomap at the end of the SSID broadcast. Same as with Google. And hope they do as they say and do not record your information anyway. I'm guessing that hope is in vain.

            Saving the NSA / GCHQ et al a lot of work and cost. Nice of Mozilla to cooperate.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: So remind me how these two tally up?

          > If you have no SSID then the BSSID will be recorded instead.

          Actually, neither hidden access points nor those with the string "_nomap" are catalogued.

          Source code is here: https://github.com/mozilla/MozStumbler -- specifically, look near line 21 of android/src/main/java/org/mozilla/mozstumbler/service/stumblerthread/blocklist/SSIDBlockList.java

    2. elip

      Re: WTF?

      I'm not sure why all the complaints and bashing?

      The app's sole purpose is to identify your location.

      The fact of it using GPS/Wifi public essid sniffing does not matter one bit.

      You obviously automatically opt in when you INSTALL THE APP!!!

      Duh! Don't install the app!

  7. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    FAIL

    Sniffing cell towers and GPS. Good. Passing that information to someone else.

    F**k right off.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "The spiel for the app even encourages users to walk roads less travelled"

    That sounds very sensible. Walk alone along roads very few people travel, spying on the doings of the odd people around. What can possibly go wrong?

    1. wikkity

      Re: "The spiel for the app even encourages users to walk roads less travelled"

      At least the police would know where you went missing.

  9. DrXym

    Slightly offtopic but

    I wish Android and other mobe OSes would sort their remembered wifi spots by geographic location and when they were last used. I must have about 100 in my list and I can't remember where half of them are from or whether I might need them again. Let me sort by location and bulk erase them.

    1. ratfox

      Re: Slightly offtopic but

      The name in the list of wifi networks can be used by multiple actual hotspots from the same company… I guess that would make the logic of what to display a bit difficult. Maybe using the last date accessed instead?

      1. DrXym

        Re: Slightly offtopic but

        I assume they have the same name but have a different MAC address. Besides, the list could hold the last known location of a hotspot to deal with dupes, or even use a phone's cell location (if it has a phone stack) as a last resort when they don't know anything about the hotspot. Anything would be better than a flat list.

  10. anothercynic Silver badge

    Mozilla advises that it's possible to opt out of being slurped by Stumbler by adding “_nomap” to the end of an SSID's name. The foundation says “This approach is used by other companies offering similar services” so it's good enough for Mozilla.

    Uuhhhhhhh. No. I'm *not* changing my SSID just because *you* can't be bothered to obtain consent.

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