back to article Microsoft left red-faced after DMCAs dished out to Windows bloggers

Microsoft has sparked fury among the faithful following a DMCA takedown trawl that snared innocent Windows bloggers. The company was put on the defensive and forced to apologise after loyal podcasters and video bloggers received takedown warnings and had their YouTube accounts suspended for claimed copyright infringement of …

  1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
    FAIL

    MS Plans for world domination

    just took a few steps backwards.

    another Legal Dept totally disconnected from reality. Oh well, I expect they'll all be stanting for election soon after all, they are perfectly qualified.

  2. Ross K Silver badge

    From what I read, comments left by Youtubers were the problem rather than the videos themselves.

    Yeah I know. Who could have imagined Youtube comments causing trouble?

    1. Just Enough

      Too dumb for words

      90% of all YouTube comments should be taken down. Just because of flagrant breaches the moron intelligence threshold.

    2. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

      Pirate product keys in comments

      As I understand this, the takedown request was to have specific comments removed that contained information about obtaining pirate copies of Windows and/or contained cracked/stolen product keys, which seems like a legitimate request.

      (If it doesn't seem legitimate to you, you might need to replace "Microsoft" and "Windows" with the name of a company and product that you like, and read it again)

      Google decided to respond to this request by removing all of the videos, rather than the offending comments.

      Why? Most likely incompetence by the low-paid intern who handles takedown requests, but I'm sure there'll be a conspiracy theory along any moment now...

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Holmes

        Re: Pirate product keys in comments

        pirate copies of Windows and/or contained cracked/stolen product keys, which seems like a legitimate request

        Don't tell all that remote-activiation, medialess, no-you-must-download, preinstalled only, there-is-no-one-at-the-support-centre, enter-your-license-key sado-masochistic procedure I have to go through is actually USELESS TO MICROSOFT? #SHOCKED

        If it doesn't seem legitimate to you, you might need to replace "Microsoft" and "Windows" with the name of a company and product that you like, and read it again

        Hmmm..... the product I like can be had for free or is hardware. Weird.

      2. Tom 35

        Re: Pirate product keys in comments

        "Why? Most likely incompetence by the low-paid intern who handles takedown requests,"

        Or more likely an automated tool guaranteed to cure all copyright problems.

        1. John Tserkezis

          Re: Pirate product keys in comments

          "Or more likely an automated tool guaranteed to cure all copyright problems."

          I've always said, you can have absolute zero piracy if you want, but you're going to have to be happy with your three remaining customers.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Linux

        Re: Pirate product keys in comments

        License keys, eh? Now that's a blast from the past!

        1. Big-nosed Pengie
          Linux

          Re: Pirate product keys in comments

          Soooooo last century!

      4. Steve 129

        Re: Pirate product keys in comments

        The issue is the automatic generation of the take down requests and the automatic implementation of the requests.

        Yet another example of how f****d up the DMCA is!!

        1. AlbertH

          Re: Pirate product keys in comments

          The Americans still fondly believe that their "Laws" apply to the rest of the world too!

          WAKE UP USA! You're NOT the world's policemen and your silly laws don't apply to the rest of us who live in truly free democracies.

  3. Irongut

    No doubt an automated program flagged these vids. It happens on YT all the time. So why the fuss?

    Oh and who are these self important people? Never heard of them.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Oh and who are these self important people? Never heard of them."

      You've not heard of Microsoft?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        > You've not heard of Microsoft?

        Course I have, but I use Daz.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: > You've not heard of Microsoft?

          > Course I have, but I use Daz.

          Same here. Don't like the smell of Microsoft.

      2. Dazed and Confused
        Angel

        Re: You've not heard of Microsoft?

        Oh I wish!

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I can only dream

        That statement will be true for my grandchildren. {}:>))

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Automated takedowns are the cancer that is killing YouTube.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Automated takedowns are the cancer that is killing YouTube

        And Microsoft is the cancer that's killing this industry. This was just one of their many acts.

        Move along, nothing to see...

      2. Mike Flugennock

        KILLING YouTube...?

        "Automated takedowns are the cancer that is killing YouTube."

        Killing YouTube? Hell, I left YouTube for dead three or four years ago. Got tired of them pestering me about the music in my videos, telling me they're leaving them up so they can run "relevant" advertising next to them.

        I've since moved most of my content to Vimeo -- no anal-retentive music police, no pop-up or pre-roll ads, no "recommended" video links, no wading through endless footage of twerking and ice-bucket dumping and cats falling off of tabletops and plane-crash porn and schlocky music videos and people throwing dry ice into swimming pools just to find some interesting and challenging content.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: KILLING YouTube...?

          There are still a few hidden gems on YouTube if you can find them. And it's undoubtedly a popular platform where you can get more views/subs.

        2. croc

          Re: KILLING YouTube...?

          "I've since moved most of my content to Vimeo -- no anal-retentive music police, no pop-up or pre-roll ads, no "recommended" video links, no wading through endless footage of twerking and ice-bucket dumping and cats falling off of tabletops and plane-crash porn and schlocky music videos and people throwing dry ice into swimming pools just to find some interesting and challenging content."

          .......Yet......

      3. John Tserkezis

        "Automated takedowns are the cancer that is killing YouTube."

        Or, YouTube is the cancer that is killing YouTube.

  4. DarkWalker

    Let's see if I understood this: if I want to make Microsoft take a video I don't like from Youtube, I just have to get a hold on a stolen Windows 8 key, create a fake Youtube account, and post the key in the comments?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "if I want to make Microsoft take a video I don't like from Youtube, [...]"

      That tactic worked many times on usenet. Prejudiced people took down various alt.rec groups in a similar way. They put pr0n pictures in irrelevant postings - and then complained to ISPs to block the group from the news feed.

    2. BillG
      Holmes

      Let's see if I understood this: if I want to make Microsoft take a video I don't like from Youtube, I just have to get a hold on a stolen Windows 8 key, create a fake Youtube account, and post the key in the comments?

      I suspect it's broader than that. Since MS is only web searching for product keys, you could probably post the key in the comments of ANY YouTube video and get it taken down.

      1. AndyS

        @BillG

        No, you're thinking too narrowly. Basically I could post the key in the comment section of any youtube video I want taken down, and Microsoft would find it and have it removed.

        (aka "that's exactly what the guy above you said!)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Unless it's a video that puts a positive light on Microsoft + Windows. In that case, they'll just ask for the comment to be removed, then pay the uploader their fee.

          However, those videos are quite rare.

      2. Frank N. Stein

        Microsoft should web search for product keys on Warez sites. Shared product keys are still happening there.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Windows

    Maybe unintended, but fitting nonetheless...

    With fitting I'm referring to the ongoing trend where all Microsoft seems to accomplish is to tick off their user, developer -base. At the very least a very large portion of it. And now we can even add the fanbase to this list as well.

    From developers who got ticked off with Visual Studio 2012 right down to gamers who cried out over the XBox One limitations and insane regulations ("If you're not online at least once every 24hrs you can't play certain games").

    Sure; sometimes the damage got fixed, but it always left two important issues. First of all its the first impression which counts, and second: did the problems really get fixed?

    When looking at Visual Studio the "fix" was an upgrade to the next version (so basically buying a new version). Looking at the XBox One we learned that Microsoft reversed some of their plans. But there were no guarantees that they wouldn't implement their plans at a later time anyway (you know; when the platform has fully settled thus leaving people with little other options).

    It seems to me as if Microsoft still doesn't realize the most important rule of an open market: the customer is king. Not always, but you most certainly do not want to piss them off to such extends where they might even want to stop using your products.

    1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Maybe unintended, but fitting nonetheless...

      Face it. Microsoft customers are exploitable elements. Anyone who believes otherwise?

      Stockholm syndrome.

      "Microsoft is GOOD. Their next upgrade will FIX MY PROBLEMS."

      "Take THAT, dog. I hope you like it. MWHAHAHA!" (offers glitz and ribbon crap)

      "Thank you, Microsoft."

    2. usbac Silver badge

      Re: Maybe unintended, but fitting nonetheless...

      Yeah, look what happened to Sony! They kept kicking their customers in the balls, and now they are in big trouble...

      http://www.cnet.com/news/sony-expects-489m-loss-this-year-as-financial-woes-continue/

      Funny how that happens! I stopped buying anything from Sony after the root-kit fiasco.

      Are we sure a bunch of Sony execs haven't defected to Microsoft?

      We can only hope Microsoft follows the Sony example...

      1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

        Sony is forbidden in my household as well.

        Unfortunately, Microsoft is not so easy to do without.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          When I was a kid, Sony used to be the dog's bollocks (the best), but now they're to be avoided.

          Microsoft have never been the dog's danglies, but they can't be avoided (easily).

        2. edge_e
          Linux

          Unfortunately, Microsoft is not so easy to do without.

          I don't find it hard

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            I don't find it hard

            We're talking about people who threw a wobbler over a tabbed toolbar (the "ribbon"), and people who are unable to download a tool to stop their launcher going full screen (TIFKAM).

        3. AlbertH
          Linux

          Micro-what?

          It's trivially easy to get rid of anything Microsoft - I did back in the early 90s. The company I work for got rid of everything Microsoft in the mid-90s..... We now refuse to deal with any company that still tries to send us MS-format files, and we've even stopped dealing with one bank because of their reliance on the MS brokenware - if they care that little for the security of data, they don't care about the security of your money!

        4. Fatman

          RE: Sony is forbidden in my household as well.

          Mine too!!!!

          Now, as to Microsoft, well, I did purchase a new desktop a few years ago, and it did have WindblowZE pre-installed on it; but a new hard drive, and a Linux Live CD cured that problem.

          The OEM hard drive was disconnected from the motherboard, and placed in the static bag from the new one, and a bio-hazard sticker (thanks to my Dr's office assistant for one) was used to seal it shut. While I am using the PC, it just sits in the case. Some day, when I finally decide to dispose of it, I will reconnect it back to the motherboard, and keep my Linux hard drive. Some lucky bastard will get a PC with a pre-installed WindblowZE 7 that was never used.

          Meanwhile, another malware magnet is prevented from corrupting the internet.

        5. John Robson Silver badge

          "Sony is forbidden in my household as well.

          Unfortunately, Microsoft is not so easy to do without."

          Nothing Sony gets a connection.

          Nothing MS gets a look in, well that's not quite true.

          They do make good mice, and quite nice keyboards.

  6. Vladimir Plouzhnikov

    Make it like a memory!

    Why? Because of Barbra, of course...

    Didn't I like to holdguide you inwith my handmouse

    I was doing you no harm

    I made you understand

    All my life I've been that way

    It happened long ago

  7. chivo243 Silver badge
    Trollface

    Does M$ have failure insurance?

    Seems every time they turn around they are really trying to fuck up?! Does M$ have some crafty Lloyds of London policy that states the more the fuck up they more the get in policy pay outs?

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Pointing the finger of blame on the wrong people

    IMHO this is NOT a failure of Microsoft, this is a failure of YOUTUBE to actually know laws and support the video bloggers. According to United States copyright law, Title 17, sections 107 to 118

    http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

    "Fair use" is allowed and NOT classified as a copyright infringement. "Fair use" has been declared as

    "quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for illustration or clarification of the author’s observations; use in a parody of some of the content of the work parodied; summary of an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report; reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part of a damaged copy; reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson; reproduction of a work in legislative or judicial proceedings or reports; incidental and fortuitous reproduction, in a newsreel or broadcast, of a work located in the scene of an event being reported."

    So what part of "quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment" does a video blog NOT fall under, YOUTUBE??!!

    Again, this is GOOGLE / YOUTUBE'S FAILURE TO REPLY TO THE DCMA TAKEDOWN NOTICE THAT THE VIDEO BLOG REVIEWS ARE LEGAL ACCORDING TO TITLE 17 AND WILL NOT BE TAKEN DOWN UNTIL ORDERED BY A COURT OF LAW.

    But they caved under corporate pressure rather than stand up for rights guaranteed in the law.

    The pigs.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Pointing the finger of blame on the wrong people

      For big publishers (i.e. registered partners) the takedown is automatic. They just flag up any video they want to takedown and down it goes. It is them up to the video uploader to argue that it is not a breach to get it reinstated.

      This was part of the agreement with the MAFIAA where the publishers can choose to takedown videos or revenue share (who knows how many videos they are taking a cut from without being entitled?).

      In reality the power of the MAFIAA would have meant that Google would have been faced billions of dollars of lawsuits by now if they had not come to an agreement - they were sending in thousands of takedowns a day and complaining Google was not taking them down quick enough - imaging if each had to be challenged.

  9. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Trollface

    Winshit hush-hush

    clamping down on criticism of Windows

    ....likely to suck all the oxygen out of the room.

  10. Chris 3

    This is going to make the Minecraft community even more nervous.

    ... and they're already pretty nervous about what it means for all the game channels on Youtube.

  11. Hellcat
    Windows

    TL:DR?

    So basically Google screwed up by removing the videos rather than the comments/accounts that had another company's IP in there?

    I'm sure Google is "So, so, sorry."

    Icon as close to Fr. Jack as is possible.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: TL:DR?

      Sounds like Google screwed up by trusting Microsoft to act decently.

  12. Gis Bun

    hmmmm

    I don't think MS would take down a video because of criticism but if it was because of a serial number, they could of easily just banned the number - unless it takes more work. Even the too many have seen the videos.

  13. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Flame

    The DMCA must be taken down

    I would like to know just one instance where the DCMA was properly used to remove actually infringing content.

    It seems to be that every single instance I have heard of its use results in the overbearing takedown of either non-copyright-infringing material, or the wholesale blocking of entire domains that had nothing to do with the notice in the first place.

    The DMCA is hopelessly broken. Kill it with fire.

  14. Captain DaFt

    A miscommunication?

    Apparently Google thought Microsoft was exercising its 'Right to be forgotten'?

    Hell, maybe they were.

  15. This post has been deleted by its author

  16. Trigun
    Trollface

    Microsoft... or Google?

    Makes me wonder if Google may have "accidentally" misconstrued Microsoft's request(s)... I'm not defending MS here, but there's always more to a story, generally...

    *doffs his tinfoil hat and heads of the door*

  17. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    Counternotification anybody?

    Did anybody file a counternotification? The person or group who asserts a DMCA problem does it under the penalty of perjury. If one gets their video (or whatever) removed via DMCA, the counternotification process allows the victim to get their video (or whatever) immediately put back up, and at that point the person or group who filed the improper DMCA notice is also liable for perjury.

    Know your rights!

  18. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

    Strange that this video survived the cull

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfmAeijj5cM

    Perhaps if I post a licence key in the comments...

  19. Tim Bates

    Not looking good for MicrosoftCraft videos then?

    So once the Mojang/Minecraft buyout goes through, what will happen to all those Minecraft videos? Can't imagine the Microsoft Copyright Police would like to see all those blocky textures misused by having people entertain other product owners....

  20. Adrian 4
    Pirate

    First, the engineers start and run the company. Exciting things happen.

    Then the accountants take over, giving up innovation for the sake of stability. Sad, but inevitable.

    Finally, the lawyers move in and preside over the picking of the bones.

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