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back to article One million people have bonked on London public transport

It seems that travellers on the London Underground are much more likely to pay by bonk with their contactless credit card than those on the buses. On the first day of accepting contactless credit cards on the tube, TfL saw 128,000 journeys from over 600 of the 652 stations which take Oyster cards. That number has now reached …

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  1. Ketlan
    Devil

    Bonkers

    I bonked on London Transport and British Rail many times with various partners when I was considerably younger, long before Oyster Cards and mobile phones existed. Though we called it a bunk-up in those days. Close, I guess.

    2 0 Reply
    1. Khaptain Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Bonkers

      Ah-ha, we have found El Reg's first salirophiliac .

      1 0 Reply
  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Wrong in the first sentence, it seems

    "It seems that travellers on the London Underground are much more likely to pay by bonk with their contactless credit card than those on the buses."

    The proportions are very close, but actually bus passengers are more likely to bonk to pay. In 2013/14, there were 2.382 billion TfL bus journeys, and 1.264 billion tube journeys. So passengers on the bus were 11% more likely to bonk than tube passengers based on the quoted number of bonks.

    Luckily few of us come the Register for facts.

    0 3 Reply
    1. Tromos
      Reply Icon

      Re: Wrong in the first sentence, it seems

      Indeed, solely based on the quoted number of bonks. However, basing it on a much more sensible figure of average daily usage, the original "much more likely" statement is quite correct.

      0 0 Reply
  3. WonkoTheSane
    Headmaster

    Obvious reason is obvious

    Bonk fares are lower than cash ones.

    0 0 Reply
    1. handle
      Reply Icon

      Re: Obvious reason is obvious

      Yes, but they're the same as Oyster ones, and because cash fares are so outrageously expensive, very few people don't have Oyster cards any more.

      0 0 Reply
  4. dogknees

    Is that 1 million people or 1 million fares? It should be easy for them to provide both numbers so we can see the real market penetration.

    0 0 Reply
  5. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

    Card clash detection

    How are TFL detecting card clash?

    0 0 Reply
    1. CaptainHook
      Reply Icon

      Re: Card clash detection

      How are TFL detecting card clash?

      *****

      I don't know for sure, but the obvious check would be to find 2 transactions from the same scanner less than a few seconds apart.

      0 0 Reply
      1. Alan_Peery
        Reply Icon

        Re: Card clash detection

        But that's not NEARLY enough. Imagine a wallet with an Oyster with a monthly ticket loaded and two contactless debit cards -- not all that unusual a config.

        1) Scanner sees all three at the same time -- choose the Oyster.

        2) Scanner sees Oyster and card A, the card that purchase the Oyster. Choose the Oyster.

        3) Scanner sees card A only. System matches Card A with purchase of single monthly Oyster, choose Oyster -- but see next point.

        4) Scanner sees card A only. System matches Card A, card A has purchased a monthly ticket on one Oyster card and topped up a different Oyster card. Should this journey go against the monthly ticket, or the Oyster card presumably carried by a family member or friend?

        5) Scanner only sees card B, which has never been used to purchase any Oyster item. Charges can only against B -- or can they go against the monthly Oyster as that has been detected "in the same wallet as card B previously"?

        0 1 Reply
        1. The Vociferous Time Waster
          Reply Icon

          Re: Card clash detection

          It is unlikely to be that clever. Most likely just looks for two transactions through one barrier opening (they can detect objects passing through the barrier). It would most likely only have a choice between oyster and credit/debit so would prefer the oyster.

          Card bonking and oyster bonking use quite distinctly different tech so are probably handled by different hardware up to a point, this is why you could detect and auth two at a time. You could no more auth two debit cards than you could two Oyster cards.

          Presenting the wrong card is not tfl's problem. Reading a nearby credit card when you present your oyster is their problem because it's fraudulent on their part.

          0 0 Reply
        2. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Card clash detection

          Most oyster cards in regular use (also the ones most likely to be stuffed in a wallet and just flailed at the scanner while the user charges through, leaving sprawled tourists in their wake) are registered to a name and address.

          So are credit cards.

          Fairly easy to detect those clashes.

          Not registered? Well, then you cant apply for a refund anyway.

          0 0 Reply
          1. TeeCee Gold badge
            Reply Icon
            Devil

            Re: Card clash detection

            Not registered? Well, then you cant apply for a refund anyway.

            Aaaannnnnndddd there it is.

            Somewhere in this lot there had to be a trick to force you to register your details, so the evil fuckers can flog all that juicy data off to the marketing vultures[1].

            [1] No offence.

            0 0 Reply
  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Another explanation

    How many bus users have free bus passes?

    Owing to the wonders of Mr. Google it is now possible for tight fisted OAPs to work out the optimum A to B route taking into account transit time, and that buses are free but the Underground isn't. Perhaps some ingenious person will automate it with an app. Or perhaps Nick Clegg will abolish the bus pass before anyone can do it, because as we know all OAPs are now skiving millionaires.

    1 0 Reply
    1. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Another explanation

      Not sure why you are saying Nick Clegg will abolish bus passes, it a local authority thing, not national.

      Still a billion a year on bus passes for people that are better off than many working people does not sit quite right.

      0 2 Reply
      1. wikkity
        Reply Icon

        Re: Another explanation

        > Still a billion a year on bus passes for people that are better off than many working people does not sit quite right.

        Not just OAPs, people with qualifying disabilities also get them, i.e, can't drive. That is a demographic that tends to be worse off.

        0 0 Reply
      2. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Another explanation

        Because in their efforts to find another group to blame for spending taxpayer money, Clegg decided at one point to single out OAPs. And specifically, as I recall, mentioned the abolition of the bus pass.

        I am well aware that the present system is far from perfect. I don't need a winter fuel allowance, whereas some people would benefit from double. But economically it may be better to distribute universal benefits and have progressive taxation, than to mess about with the current paperwork-generating system of assessing people for benefits.

        Cue libertarian downvotes, but just remember your heroine ended up on welfare.

        0 0 Reply
    2. CABVolunteer
      Reply Icon

      There'll be little demand for your app.....

      "..... buses are free but the Underground isn't."

      That's true only for holders of the "bus pass" who live outside London. Residents of London over the age of 60 can apply for a pass (Oyster60+ or the FreedomPass if over the StatePension eligibility threshold) which gives free travel on London buses, London Underground, and most overground trains within the London region (though there are some restrictions on trains eg not before 09:30 Mon-Fri). Merseyside has a similar scheme for its older residents.

      0 0 Reply
  7. BongoJoe

    Now this explains the state of the seats...

    1 0 Reply
  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Bag o' Sh.... shellfish"

    Ever notice that Londoners are obsessed with their Oyster Cards, and no-one else gives a toss about them? :-)

    The second of my fantastic Oyster-related plans towards killing off every single one of the insufferably navel-gazing insular twonks in the English capital while leaving everyone else untouched... er, I mean, "legitimately countering the United Kingdom's cultural bias towards London", is what I like to call the "Paul Calf meets James Bond Evil Mastermind" method (*)

    Basically, I'm going to get a bunch of rottweilers and train them to bite the head off anyone who says "Oyster card".

    Er, that's it. Simple... but absolutely guaranteed to work. :-)

    (*) Owing to the fact I nicked the idea off Steve Coogan.

    1 1 Reply
    1. dotdavid
      Reply Icon

      Re: "Bag o' Sh.... shellfish"

      I quite like the Oyster card.

      I lost my national rail season ticket and oyster card once. Replacing the season ticket involved a trip to a ticket office, having to fill out a lengthy form (and another to claim for journeys I'd had to pay for separately) and a stern warning from a disapproving operative of First Capital Connect that this was the only time they'd let me lose a ticket this year.

      Replacing my Oyster card involved getting a new one, logging onto their website and transferring the balance across. I lost no money. Much easier. I could lose it as much as I liked in the future.

      I've used pay-by-bonk a couple of times on the bus when I've forgotten my Oyster card at home, and so I'm very much for it. I do think Oyster would be great as a national ticketing system for trains however.

      0 0 Reply

  9. This post has been deleted by its author

  10. James 85

    Real-time information is curently not available:

    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube-dlr-overground/status/

    "Our data service is currently unavailable. We are trying to fix this. Please come back later."

    Oyster account access and online top-ups currently not available:

    https://oyster.tfl.gov.uk/oyster/link/sso/0001.do

    "Sorry

    Important site maintenance means Oyster online is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later.

    We apologise for any inconvenience. You may find the following links useful:"

    So, maybe they should focus more on fixing what they already have.

    0 0 Reply
  11. Michael Jennings

    I think the big reason why contactless travel has just increased on buses is that we now have capping. If you are making multiple journeys in a day or changing from one mode of transport to another, you now pay no more than a Travelcard and/or daily bus pass. Up until now, although contactless has worked on buses, you simply paid a single fare for each journey - no matter how many you made in a day. This means that it is now reasonable to simply use your contactless credit card to pay for all your daily travel, whereas in the past it was useful for those emergency situations when you had run out of money on your Oyster card (or left it at home) but you probably didn't want to use it for your regular use.

    1 0 Reply

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