Number crunching knife crime and online ID verification

Frightening the level of ignorance so high up ...

... this has echoes of "Wacky" Jacqui Smiths ludicrous announcement that the government will get peddofiles to register their email address to enable them to be excluded from teenage social-networking sites ...

The plan

Is there a coherent plan for all this. On the telly this morning there was a guy who was in Tesco with his teenage daughter doing the weekly shop and they wouldn't sell him the beer because his daughter was there incase she got hold of it. WTF!

And what's the minimum age for this. If you're there with your toddler will you be stopped from buying beer?

What about fags, DVDs, knifes, poisons, lighters and all the other bits and pieces which have age restrictions on?

And don't start me on Asda's new challenge 25 plan where you're ID'd if you look under 25. Why? The legal age for alcohol is 18 in this country, not 25.

Somewhere.....

In whitehall there is a monkey and a typewriter with a queue of cabinets members lining up for the next big policy.

This just goes further to show how out of touch with reality our Government is.

@Glyn

My niece is 14 and can pass for 18, easily. Look at AC at the top - buying beer at 14, no problems. The idea behind the 25 challenge scheme recognises this, and makes it harder for the under age drinkers to get booze.

In Scotland, as I understand the timeline, the licensed trade were asked, about 7 years ago, to present ideas and measures to control smoking. After 5 years, they had produced no ideas, zero, zilch, nada, squat, so the Government made one for them.

I think the supermarkets might want to avoid something similar.

Duh

If the kids can borrow thier parents credit cards in order to buy this stuff, then surely they can also borrow some ID??

phrase recognition? huh?

Just when exactly do you type a "phrase" in when buying stuff from an online retailer? You click the "add to basket" icon.

No, wait - obviously there'll be a challenge/response section just after you enter your password, and anyone who writes incoherent gibberish will be barred.

So that rules out any politicians and civil servants then...

Beware the cookie monster

Nothing is safer for verifying things than a client side text file!

Where's my OS mascot?

phorm

The bit about tracking access to certain sites where younger people go, surely this needs a phorm style tracking system to work. And its so obviously not going to work it makes them look stupid for even suggesting it.

Little Johnny, age 8, likes to google fireman sam and tweenies. So, he gets a cookie.

Suddenly his parents can't buy an 18 certificate DVD from Amazon. Good thinking! </sarcasm>

@3x2

Spot on. Until the banks started giving toddlers Solo cards, possession of a credit card was age verification enough for "cardholder not present" transactions. Surely if the powers that be genuinely think underage online purchases are a serious issue, then this is the place to start? Give under-18s identifiable card ranges (or tie it into 3D Secure).

Of course the government doesn't really give a toss about adolescents getting hold of booze and knifing in each other in the face on a Friday night, because they know the problem isn't really any worse than its ever been, but its another useful little tool in the Climate Of Fear/War on Terror/Police State plan.

Thing is...

Thing is it's legal for kids to drink at home with their parents from the age of 5, isn't it? And in a restaurant with a meal with their parents from age 14, right? It's only illegal to buy the stuff until you're 18. So what if he was gonna buy the beer to drink it with his 15 year old daughter? It's legal...

install parental controlls as default.

Inspired, because its a commonly held thought we don't get enough rubbish on our computers already... i have no kids so why should i have to remove it.

Also i dont use MS software so i would automatically be exempt like with the iPlayer.

Blame kids, blame retailers, blame violent computer games, when can we blame parents for not actually looking after their kids... you are an adult when you are 18 so your parents are liable for EVERYTHING you do before that.

solipsism rules?

Moron is that kind of MP who really should be locked up as a danger to the population. The idea that you can prevent access to a range of products that are LEGAL to own is insane. In any group there will be older ones who can legally buy whatever the younger ones want (and probably make a profit on the transaction.)

As for the idiots in Tesco... If the father wanted to give the drink to the daughter the law says he can.

So I don't get this nanny state stuff

Ok, I admit, I live in the US where nanny state now won't let me carry my pocketknife on a plane any more (even though I had done it lots of times in the past without a problem)...So what kind of knives are you talking about here....small pocket knives, folding lockblades, fixed Crocodile Dundee blades, samurai swords, switchblades (which they seem really hung up on here)?? I mean, the last time a highway patrol guy pulled me over and asked if I had any weapons, I said NO; just a pocketknife - i feel naked without it and his response was "me, too" - not let's have it or any of that crap. Get real people. my girls already have their own knives.

I'm going, already...

re: phrase recognition? huh?

Simple - a little box pops up and says

"Do you remember how everything was much worse under the last conservative goverment"

If you click no you are either too young and don't remember 1997, or a dangerous anti-goverment subversive.

If you follow the tech-trail... Compulsory online-ID...

Frankly, this ("online-ID") is not only coming (no matter what the people think about it)... it has, clearly, actually been officially-planned for some time. In fact, in the U.S. the legislation and various technological and business, mechanisms, effectively mandating such compulsory online-ID, have been progressing for quite some time. Furthermore, it has actually been picking-up considerable speed recently.

And, dont forget that Microsoft has already created most of the technology (and actually integrated the Windows "security" -"Trusted Computing"- APIs, necessary to eventually require such "identity-verification") This includes; BIOMETRIC-IDs linked with "Uniform, machine-readable" identity-cards, for each -individual- user (???citizen???).

The final application of this technology is obviously the stated goal of being able to actually require BIOMETRIC user-identification (for each individual-user) before people are allowed to use their computer, or access the Internet, at all (look-up the specifics of Microsofts "Trusted Computing", "NGSCB" and "Endpoint-to-endpoint security").

This, "Trusted Computing" environment, will result in primarily two ends:

-One, those that control the over-all system (the Government, big-business interests, etc.) will be able to identify, track, and control, absolutely everything (and every place) that people use on the Internet.

-And two, Microsoft (and their various "media-partners") would finally be able to achieve the perennial-dream of perpetually controlling, and billing, each individual "user" for absolutely everything that they use a computer to accomplish.

This absolutely-amazing, and painfully-apparent, convergence of goals, kinda makes you wonder if there was a connection between the U.S. Government virtually letting Microsoft completely-off... after the company was found, undeniably, absolutely-guilty of committing numerous, egregious, Anti-competitive actions, and violating the Law... and the unbelievably-convenient timing of Microsofts initial large-scale push for their, so-called, "Secure Computing" initiatives... doesnt it..?

And, my sad observation is that, England and the United States seem to be happily skipping hand-in-hand, down the exact-same, destructive, totalitarian-control, path.

New World Order

Clearly to make these little things work: banning paedofiles, stop children buying knifes etc we need a really BIG thing. Global ID, online and physical.

"Well, how is Ms Smith going to impose her rules on the whole internet?

The only sites this is going to impact are UK sites, this is another stupid law."

You see people in government know this. Either they have been specifically told or they instintively know that such a thing is on the cards.

The aim is not really to stop children stabbing each other, "think of the children" is a banner under which the real plans are implemented. These rules will affect everybody not just those "who have something to hide". They are aiming to give us the feeling of beening monitored 24x7.

The police state. Now why do they want a police state? Maybe something really BAD is about to happen and we will be on the streets shouting about it.

Notice how they could not contain all the football hooligans at a recent football match. They know they are out numbered. They are trying to build a prison without bars, a prison of the mind.

I suggest everyone goes ot and commits an act of mindless vandolizm. You will be suprized at the fact you will get away with it. The prison is truly being created in your mind.

Kite

Of course this reflects official thinking (hm - need a new phrase for this obvious contradiction in terms), Moran is an ultra-loyalist who rose through the hard-driving world of local authority housing departments, and has held a succession of bag-carrying PPS positions over the last decade, but somehow has never attained the heights of independent ability required to become a junior Home Office minister

and exercise her true calling of petty authoritarianism - unlike such a towering IT-genius as Joan Ryan.

So glad...

I dont live in totalitarian UK anymore. I live in good old free Russia where we have a democracy. One man, one vote.... Putin is the man, and he has the vote. At least here you know the system is corrupt ;-)

Still, will this actually stop anyone making these purchases. As someone said, it will come where it will become more difficult but when i was a teen i was buying alcohol without Id standing right next to the sign that said "Are you 18?"

Can't buy over the internet? Go to your local offie where the owner will happily sell you a 4 pack.

The porn is a bit harder, i used to find mine at the local dump where people used to throw their old mags.

All this tracking and verification is getting a little dangerous though. Daddy's daughter uses the computer to look at some underwear on the web. Next thing police bust door down because Phorm (or whatever) has alerted them that a male adult been looking at pictures of little girls underwear.