back to article True fact: Your CAT wees ... like a racehorse

Racehorses have long been noted for the prodigious length of their - wait for it - toilet breaks. Yet boffins have claimed that all animals actually wee for the same amount of time, demolishing equines' much-vaunted status as the greatest urinators on Planet Earth. Researchers measured dozens of species to find that all …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What really worries me is that this toilet breaking research (couldn't call it ground breaking could I?) is funded by taxpayers money...

    Maybe to further his research interest we should send Mr Hu to clean the stalls in a pig farm for a while? He would then have an overflow of porcine data to complete his studies AND (drum roll) actually perform something useful at the same time?

    1. Michael Habel

      What really worries me is that this toilet breaking research (couldn't call it ground breaking could I?) is funded by taxpayers money...

      Hay where else are you gonna learn about "Flatulating Bovine" blowing a massive hole in the Ozone, if not by some outfit (presumably with some "agenda" or other), that wasn't raking off Cash from the Government.

    2. Lionel Baden
      Unhappy

      thats a bit closed minded !!

      What is the problem with adding something to our knowledge.

      It may not be of any interest to yourself but could help further down the line. With this knowledge it could be possible to diagnose any potential medical issues, breeding issues etc etc ...

      I dont see you working for free.

      1. Michael Habel

        Re: thats a bit closed minded !!

        If this is in anyway "relevant" then it should be done either in a privately funded institution, or barring that in a public university. Where normal people need not front this type of uselessness. The US is in enough debt as it is with out having to shell out for crap like this over on top of everything else.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: thats a bit closed minded !!

          The US is not in debt because of people doing a bit of off-mainstream basic research; it's in debt partly because it has a government that tends to ignore science, economics, and history when it has agenda to pursue, elected by people a majority of whom think evolution isn't "settled science".

          The US pissed between $1 and $2 trillion up the wall over Iraq. Perhaps you should start looking for waste there first.

      2. brooxta

        Re: thats a bit closed minded !!

        Yep. With this kind of basic biological research you have to be committed. Either urine or you're out.

        I'm out, ta for my coat.

        1. Fungus Bob

          Re: Either urine or you're out

          Urine trouble now.

      3. Scroticus Canis

        Re: thats a bit closed minded !! - "I dont see you working for free."

        So who funded Newton or Einstein when they produced their major game changers? They did it on their own time if I remember correctly. Not that I have anything against research grants, just saying.

  2. Richard Jones 1

    Perhaps Predictable

    Most animals are vulnerable while engaged in the activity so there is probably an optimum time one can be distracted before leaving the scene, (I was tempted to say something about peeing off).

    1. Chris G

      Re: Perhaps Predictable

      So you are saying that peetime is limited to enable flight.

      The obvious thing to do next is time apex predators to see if they are more leisurely in their micturation given that they have less to worry about.

      How do you get a Tiger to pee in a bottle?

      1. James O'Shea

        Re: Perhaps Predictable

        i have no idea. I'm certainly willing to watch you try.

      2. Stoneshop
        Holmes

        Re: Perhaps Predictable

        How do you get a Tiger to pee in a bottle?

        Put the tiger into the bottle(*) and don't let him out before he's done.

        (*) or your tank

        1. DropBear
          Trollface

          Re: Perhaps Predictable

          Put the tiger into the bottle(*) and don't let him out before he's done.

          Well, there's always an easy way and a hard way. In particular, a topologists would have no problem pointing out that given a closed bottle, the "inside" and "outside" distinctions are arbitrary therefore you only need to climb into a suitable one to have not one, but all the tigers in the world pee "in" a bottle. Involve a Klein bottle and things get even easier...

      3. This post has been deleted by its author

      4. Captain DaFt

        Re: Perhaps Predictable

        "How do you get a Tiger to pee in a bottle?"

        Simples, the tiger is a cat, ergo, you make it clear that it can urinate anywhere *except* in the bottle.

      5. apjanes

        Re: Perhaps Predictable

        You're attempting to get a Tiger to pee in a bottle?! You've got bottle!

  3. LarsG

    Not something I wanted to read eating breakfast this morning

  4. Ketlan
    Devil

    Mogpiss Monday Blues

    'True fact: Your CAT wees for as long as you do'

    Except when it's a neighbour's cat and it's pissing all over my garden (and don't even get me started on cat's crapping everywhere).

    1. regadpellagru

      Re: Mogpiss Monday Blues

      Ah ah, actually, it's probably, from the study, still the same duration, except this very male cat is coming EACH TIME at your place for it, part of its territory domination game ...

      Quite a pain in the a*** I reckon, but could be worse (like in your boots) ...

    2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
      Happy

      Re: Mogpiss Monday Blues

      At least it's the neighbour's cat pissing in your garden, and not their pet elephant...

      1. tony2heads

        Re: Mogpiss Monday Blues

        But the elephant would have more problems getting over the garden wall!

        1. Natalie Gritpants

          Re: Mogpiss Monday Blues

          Elephants don't go over walls, they go through them.

        2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
          Happy

          Re: Mogpiss Monday Blues

          But the elephant would have more problems getting over the garden wall!

          tony2heads,

          Q. What time is it when an elephant sits on your fence?

          A. Time to get a new fence.

          Ah. Haven't told that 'joke' since I was about 6. From my brother's Bumper Book of Childrens Jokes.

          But it's rather like the question where do you park a 60 tonne tank? Wherever the hell you like. The same applies to elephants. According to Spike Milligan you just put an elephant flap in the back door and it can wander in-and-out as it likes.

          "Min, have you put the elephant out?"

          "No. Was it on fire?"

          1. Russell Hancock

            Re: Mogpiss Monday Blues

            @I ain't Spartacus - have an upvote for making me smile (although the "jokes" are pretty bad)

    3. jake Silver badge

      Re: Mogpiss Monday Blues

      Fact is, Ketlan, the moggie knows you hate cats ... and is carefully returning the favo(u)r. Do you, perchance, have a rodent problem? I wonder why.

      (And don't even get me started on "cat's crapping everywhere" ... )

      1. lotus49

        Re: Mogpiss Monday Blues

        I used to have a rodent problem. My stupid cat used to bring them into the house all the time. I'd never seen a mouse in the house until I foolishly acceded to my children's wishes to get a couple of cats. Fortunately, they both got run over (the cats, not the children). Now I'm back to seeing no mice at all as opposed to at least one or two a day in the spring and summer.

    4. VinceH

      Re: Mogpiss Monday Blues

      "Except when it's a neighbour's cat and it's pissing all over my garden (and don't even get me started on cat's crapping everywhere)."

      Just get yourself a pet snake.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Mogpiss Monday Blues

        If there was any Karma the snake would have toyed with the cat for an hour or so before getting bored and killing it.

  5. Chairo
    Go

    Reptiles anyone?

    I would say this only works for mammals. Reptiles have a very different metabolism and construction of their drainage parts. In particular they have a cloaca.

    I would propose continued research on crocodiles, komodo dragons and poisonous snakes, using the same method.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Reptiles anyone? Or Birds

      as they too have only one exit orifice and their wee and poo is mixed into one.

      A 21 second dump. Imagine the tears that could bring to your eyes...

      1. Richard Wharram

        Re: Reptiles anyone? Or Birds

        Some mammals also have only the one pipe. Monotremes, named because of this quirk.

        Does the 21 second rule hold true for Monotremata or just for Marsupials and Placental mammals?

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
        Flame

        Re: Reptiles anyone? Or Birds

        "A 21 second dump. Imagine the tears that could bring to your eyes..."

        You've obviously never had an endoscope up your arse yet. The "prep" is neither fun nor as short as "just" 21 seconds.

        See suitable icon ------------>

  6. frank ly

    "... a long and wider urethra results in faster flow ..."

    I don't understand why a longer urethra would result in a faster flow. Wider, yes, that seems obvious. Can anyone explain?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "... a long and wider urethra results in faster flow ..."

      Maybe you can preload it.

    2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: "... a long and wider urethra results in faster flow ..."

      The body uses peristalsis, it pushes things along tubes by wobbling the sides. So because it's the whole tube that's doing the pushing, unlike most pumps where you do everything in one series of impellers, the longer the tube the more pressure you'll build up.

      You can get peristaltic pumps that mimic the biological method, and they're good for relatively high pressure / low flow-rate applications (labs / test equipment etc). But they just use a flexible tube and a couple of rollers - although I suppose you could get the same effect by putting a bunch of them in series.

    3. Frumious Bandersnatch

      Re: "... a long and wider urethra results in faster flow ..."

      laminar flow?

    4. Spoobistle
      Pint

      Re: "... a long and wider urethra results in faster flow ..."

      It's a bit confusing in the paper - they are taking the length of the urethra to represent the "drop" i.e. pressure difference due to gravity between the header tank (bladder) and outlet, so the longer it is the faster the water comes out at the tap. Of course this neglects the angle of the pipe. They do mention that in analysing the difference between male & female, but it's not clear whether their urethral length data is also gender corrected...

      I'm no expert on fluid mechanics, but from the one old textbook I have and a bit of algebra, I come up with a similar 1/6 power law for emptying a volume from a tank with a hole in the side if you scale the lengths/areas/volumes dimensionally according to mass, so I think the rest is more about coming up with an decent estimate for the time, which they get within an order of magnitude.

      I take my hat off to them though, from downloading videos of animals pissing off YouTube and holding sawn-off coke bottles under pooches at the local dog park, they managed to get a PNAS paper. Most people would just have ended up in the local paper.

      Beer, because I bet that's where it all started.

    5. Martin Budden Silver badge

      Re: "... a long and wider urethra results in faster flow ..."

      I suspect someone has misunderstood the physics of flow. While it is true that an elephant has a longer schlonger than a wombat's willy, increasing the length of a tube always increases resistance and therefore decreases flow. I'd say that the increased flow rate in larger animals is due to a combination of wider* tube and stronger bladder muscles.

      p.s. there is no peristalsis in a urethra.

      *resistance is inversely proportional to the radius to the fourth power, which means even a slight increase in tube width results in greatly reduced resistance.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Do you have exceptionally large mice in the El Reg offices?

    The article clearer refers to "all animals above 3kg" and then you compared an elephant and a mouse: "but if you consider that an elephant's bladder is 3,600 times larger than that of a mouse"

    What size are these mice? I think I might give your offices a miss.

    PS..... and how many olympic size swimming pools will they fill?

    1. Chairo
      Devil

      Re: Do you have exceptionally large mice in the El Reg offices?

      You asked for it:

      take it with a (giant rat sized) grain of salt, considering the source. Oh, and don't read it before going to bed...

    2. stucs201

      Re: What size are these mice?

      Perhaps they've been to the fire swamp and found some R.O.U.S.s?

      (Rodents Of Unusual Size).

  8. jake Silver badge

    "Everything else we tried failed"

    Uh ... perhaps try asking a Veterinarian how to collect urine samples?

    That said, I drink a lot of water when it's hot and I'm doing "dumb heavy work". This leads to more piss-breaks than normal, and more time in the pissing. Same for the horses and dawgs. The sheep, goats & hogs pretty much urinate a little bit, at will, whenever. Rodents seem to pee at random, all over everything. The cats pee at the outer corners of the property. Gut feeling is that the dawgs and I are pretty much even in the duration department, but the horses can easily double our time.

    It's supposed to be near 100F here in Sonoma, CA tomorrow, and we have work to do ... I'll collect the kids and have them put a stopwatch on the dusk peeing (not mine, mind, I'll record that myself ;-). I doubt any of them will be able to catch a cat peeing, alas ...

    1. Stoneshop
      Boffin

      Re: "Everything else we tried failed"

      "Urine sample" .nes. "Taking the piss volume".

  9. Anonymous IV

    "More research is needed."

    Sadly the link is only to the Abstract of the paper, so we cannot see whether this compulsory final sentence was included.

    1. Spoobistle

      Re: "More research is needed."

      Not far off:

      "Additional mathematical techniques as well as accurate urethral measurements

      are needed to increase correspondence with experiments."

      I guess MRI would be an ideal method for this. Doubtless the authors are preparing a grant application for an elephant-size MRI and a supercomputer.

  10. Zog_but_not_the_first
    Joke

    More data required

    How about if another cat is standing next to it, whistling?

    1. wowfood

      Re: More data required

      Or trying to strike up a conversation.

      1. theblackhand

        Re: More data required

        Or if there is a queue of female cats waiting to use the lavatories

  11. Khaptain Silver badge

    Impossible, I say

    After having downed any more than 5 pints of Guinness ( replace with your favorite beverage), which my cat does not do or at least I am not aware of, I am almost sure that I spend longer than 21 seconds sprinkling that porcelain edifice.....

    I am not sure that I really want to bring out a stopwatch in a pub toilet in order to verifiy the fact though....

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
      Happy

      Re: Impossible, I say

      I don't believe you. Given that Guinness is basically soup, and can be eaten with a fork, I think you're just imagining going to the loo...

    2. Frumious Bandersnatch

      Re: Impossible, I say

      re: Guinness

      There's a relativistic time dilation effect going on when you first order the pint and you're watching it settle and waiting for the barman to get around to topping up the head and serving it to you. No matter what the true length of time taken by this, it always seems longer. This effect always occurs in close temporal proximity to the act of Guinness flowing through the pipes, so it will naturally occur when it's coming out the other end, too (even in diluted/semi-metabolised form).

  12. Denarius
    Happy

    not been near glider landing sites has he ?

    21 seconds I wish ! After 5 hours plus and careful H2O intake so not dry, not wet one takes a bit longer. And no, some gliders do have relief tubes so we dont fly under long distance attempts without a lot of clearance. As for the dull bits between flying, never felt the need to time myself. Another entrant for AIR ?

  13. Richard Wharram

    So Solid Crew

    ...were correct.

    We do have 21 seconds to go!

  14. Len Goddard

    Igs

    Definitely a candidate for this year's ignoble award!

    1. Robert Helpmann??
      Childcatcher

      Re: Igs

      No, as it does not in fact represent the actual research being conducted. It is part of a larger, more elaborate study involved in getting people to count out loud in public restrooms.

  15. Nya
    Joke

    Did his research...

    include shaking dribble time also?

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Did his research...

      Perhaps get your prostrate checked?

      Signed: 50-something, sans said problem. So far.

      ::knocking wood:: (shaddup, kiddies, no innuendo intended.)

      1. kmac499

        Re: Did his research...

        I nominate this man for an Ig-Noble....

        (Just remember not to stand next to him in the facilities unless your wearing waterproof shoes..)

  16. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

    I heard about a Sumo demonstration event in Australia (back in the days when Channel 4 were covering all sorts of odd sports). Except it turned out that the competitors were too large to fit into the JAL toilets. As in wouldn't physically fit into the room. Although I don't know why they couldn't aim from outside the door...

    So they starved them all the day before, to avoid dumps. And didn't drink for several hours before the flight, and only started drinking halfway through. I'd still imagine they managed to beat the 21 second average on landing though...

  17. TitterYeNot

    I've heard some excuses...

    ... for getting out of changing babies' *nappies, but this is just taking the piss...

    *Diapers for those of a North American persuasion.

  18. John Arthur
    Thumb Up

    It's got to be a nomination for an IgNobel Award!

    See title

  19. Mitoo Bobsworth
    Pint

    21 seconds? OK for animals I guess.

    Humans, however - I've seen guys at the urinal in any number of pubs take at least twice as long whilst propping up the wall.

  20. LeeH
    Thumb Up

    So the length of a man's penis..

    ..is inversely related to the length of his toilet break. Amazing what science tells us.

    We should spread this news as fast as we can to bring about shorter queue's at pub urinals.

  21. thomas k.

    What took so long?

    I'm a little surprised that this particular question never occurred to anyone before now. i.e. since the beginning of the Enlightenment onwards, da Vinvi or someone.

  22. disgruntled yank

    still

    I always supposed that the expression referred to volume, not duration.

    1. Piro Silver badge

      Re: still

      That, and the sheer spectacle.

  23. Lamont Cranston
    Holmes

    "wider urethra results in faster flow"

    So, more fluid can fit in a big tube, than can fit in a small one? Thanks, science!

    He should get out more - there's many an activity worse than changing a baby's nappy.

  24. Bunbury

    3600 times bigger?

    Assuming this is a measurement of volume, there seems some mistake. 3600 is between 15 and 16 cubed. If an elephant's bladder were 15 inches a side then, that would mean a mouse has a cubic inch of bladder - which is clearly too much.

  25. cosymart
    Holmes

    Needs to be asked.

    Is there a difference between male and female pee times? Given the above discussion and the fact, now established, that the length of the urethra is critical females should pee for a shorter time? Or am I missing something here?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Needs to be asked.

      Yes, the research implies that shorter urethra should be longer pee time. However, the length of women's visits to toilets seems to bear no relation to what they allegedly do in there. This is admittedly anecdotal evidence but I do have numerous female relatives.

  26. paulc

    Ig Nobles time again?

    is it time for the Ig Noble awards again? Those awards given to scientific endeavour that really delves the depths of improbable research?

    http://www.improbable.com/ig/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ig_Nobel_Prize_winners

  27. Morrie Wyatt
    Coat

    To call this research

    Is definitely taking the piss.

  28. TheRealWelshCJ

    The odd thing is, I thought that the 22 second rule for Mammals was common knowledge. So there must have been some research about this before this guy as I have heard this before...

  29. UncleJohn

    The question that nobody seems to be asking is why were they capturing the urine if they were interested in the time it took to complete urination?

    That's like weighing a sandwich to satisfy your hunger.

  30. Canadiana

    This supposedly PRESTIGIOUS journal has lowered itself to a gutter level. PNAS previously published articles by the same author about how mosquitoes dodge raindrops and the other one how ants make floating rafts.

  31. WarpedOrb

    Huge Variation

    I imagine this is more a curiosity piece than a science article, and I'm no stats man, but ±13 on 21 seconds seems to be significant and renders the statement "all animals wee for the same amount of time" meaningless.

  32. mark 63 Silver badge

    variable

    I'm pretty certain that when ive been "smoking" it takes way, way, longer. Hard to tell though unless i deploy some instrumentation

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