so its quicker then visual studio to find the c++ you need to use to convert a int to CString.Format( "%s" ), and all other c++ you need to use visual c++
Microsoft now using next-gen Roslyn C#, Visual Basic compilers in house
After more than a year of silence on the subject, Microsoft's Managed Languages team is once again talking about Roslyn, the radically redesigned version of its C# and Visual Basic compilers. We first heard about Roslyn – described as Redmond's "compiler as a service" project – way back at the Build developer conference in …
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Tuesday 17th December 2013 03:12 GMT Frumious Bandersnatch
re: Several minus points to MS for the term "dogfooding".
Gertz wrote. "In fact, the daily builds of VS are now compiled using Roslyn, all as part of a process that we refer to in the biz as 'dogfooding.'"
My immediate reaction was to search the web to discover if humans can actually eat dog food. Probably not the kind of interest the comment was meant to inspire. Oh yes, I'll also throw him some demerits for verbing an arbitrary noun.
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Tuesday 17th December 2013 15:31 GMT Number6
Re: re: Several minus points to MS for the term "dogfooding".
Fortunately it seems to have passed me by until now. "Eating your own dogfood" is fine and has been around for some time, but converting nouns to verbs I find irritating. The language may evolve, but I'm going to sit here and be a Neanderthal.
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Tuesday 17th December 2013 03:12 GMT Tom Samplonius
This is amazing. The C# compiler is written in C#! Amazing. And you can create a "read-evaluate-print-loop" (REPL)? I'll have to reearch REPL more, as I have never heard of it before. And syntax highlighting of C# can now be done with the C# compiler, rather than emulated via C++? Staggering. Microsoft has rocked the computer language world to the core today.
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Wednesday 18th December 2013 14:58 GMT RegW
Re: RE: I just did a test with a "Hello, World" executable, and it was 5K in size
Quick! Embed it in a web page and enter the 5k contest [the5k.org] ...
Oh wait. Seems they don't run that anymore. Perhaps, no one cares how much bandwidth programs take. Never mind, let me have a go...
echo "Hello, World"
Wow, 21 bytes
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Tuesday 17th December 2013 16:07 GMT Zmodem
in a console window, not a full exe with dialog and a error prompt message, and default resource files, which then includes all the junk needed to load the program instead of having it all in the .NET framework that makes your windows install all crunchy and slow, like all programs written in .NET themselves
windows is better without anything todo .NET installed
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Tuesday 17th December 2013 22:09 GMT Anonymous Coward
".NET framework that makes your windows install all crunchy and slow, like all programs written in .NET themselves"
.Net doesn't effect Windows performance itself at all once installed - and .Net itself is faster than pretty much any similar solution. 17 x faster than Java on this mathematical function for instance:
http://fsharpnews.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/java-vs-f.html
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Wednesday 18th December 2013 21:06 GMT Zmodem
.NET might be good for code faster then java and quick console applications, but its a complete waste of time for proper applications with GUI frontends, like 3d model editing, or webcam programs, notepads, etc etc
every application sound like your drive is just about to die when a .NET application starts to load, and then takes another 30-40seconds to actually load
stick to making visual c++ better, you can just use pure c++ when you want
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Thursday 19th December 2013 10:30 GMT Anonymous Coward
"but its a complete waste of time for proper applications with GUI frontends, like 3d model editing, or webcam programs, notepads, etc etc"
.Net is fine for all of those things, and the vast majority of those sort of programs are written using .Net these days.
"every application sound like your drive is just about to die when a .NET application starts to load, and then takes another 30-40seconds to actually load"
Sounds like you have something wrong with your computer. I don't see that issue with .Net appllciations. there was such an issue fixed years ago: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/318738/en-gb
"stick to making visual c++ better, you can just use pure c++ when you want"
C++ might be a buit faster, but also a lot harder to use....
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Thursday 19th December 2013 11:09 GMT Zmodem
visuall c++ has 90% of the same classes as .NET, there are plenty of sites with code snippets on to use in your own program and on MSDN
there is no encryption class or obvious way to do binary protocols, the rest is easy with the object droplists as you type in VS
.NET is just alot slower and has bigger build filesizes
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Tuesday 17th December 2013 16:54 GMT El Andy
Of course it did, things like that end up being awfully bloated and slow with pretty much any kind of framework - because it isn't the kind of thing the framework is built to support. For more realistic apps, the difference drops significantly.
But since Rosyln can compile C# right down to native code (even as far as stripping out dependencies on the .NET framework libraries) and does things like whole program optimization (something the existing JIT compilers don't), you may well find it reduces your "Hello World" to something surprisingly small.
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Sunday 29th December 2013 17:02 GMT Michael Wojcik
So amazing that Delphi has been writen in Delphi since v1 back in 1995. Nice to see MS catching up some 18 years later.
18? Self-hosted compilers have been around since the early '60s. Even Visual Basic.NET has had a self-hosted compiler since 2008 - just not from Microsoft. The Mono vbmc compiler was rewritten in VB.NET for the 2.6 release.
So no, this isn't news. But it wasn't news in 1995 either.
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Tuesday 17th December 2013 13:06 GMT Sean Timarco Baggaley
Re: About as stupid as ...
You do realise all those programming 'paradigms' that go in and out of fashion every ten minutes are just some random tosser's opinion, right? There's no law engraved in stone that requires all programming languages to support every damned fashion under the sun.
That's the mistake C++ made: it's trying to be all things to all programmers, and fails quite spectacularly at doing the one thing that is required of all programming languages: to be human-readable.
No CPU I've ever used gives a flying toss about templates, classes, lambdas, etc.; OOP, Functional Programming, and so on, are all just so much structural scaffolding that is frequently so poorly designed that it gets in the way of the code itself. Such scaffolding has no place in the programming language itself and should have been shifted into the IDE UIs, where it belongs, a long time ago.
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Tuesday 17th December 2013 19:22 GMT BlueGreen
Re: About as stupid as ... @ Sean Timarco Baggaley
> No CPU I've ever used gives a flying toss about ..., classes, ..., ....; OOP, ...
Well neither have I but fyi
"Rekursiv was a computer processor designed by David M. Harland in the mid-1980s for Linn Smart Computing in Glasgow, Scotland. It was one of the few computer architectures intended to implement object-oriented concepts directly in hardware. The Rekursiv operated directly on objects rather than bits, nibbles, bytes and words. Virtual memory was used as a persistent object store and unusually, the processor instruction set supported recursion (hence the name)."
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rekursiv>
I'd not be surprised if there existed chips that did functional stuff at a level that looked like it was on hardware at the machine code level.
As for
> Such scaffolding has no place in the programming language itself
I'm not sure exactly what you're suggesting but I think you're wrong. Be careful what you wish for at any rate.
--- yay for edits! ---
forgot this one too <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_iAPX_432>. Which was apparently designed by idiots BTW.
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