back to article Blighty could put a (WO)MAN on MARS by 2040, says sci minister

British science minister David Willetts reckons there'll be a human on Mars within 30 years - and Blighty could help to put them there. Speaking at the end of Prime Minister David Cameron's trip to China, Willetts said that the UK could help to broker a deal between international powers to get the cooperation necessary for a …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Tragic

    "Willetts said that the UK could help to broker a deal between international powers to get the cooperation necessary for a manned mission to the Red Planet"

    Well, we wouldn't want to get our hands dirty with science, manufacturing or even design, would we?

    I nominate Willetts (and all the rest of the human refuse at Westminster) to be flushed down a giant toilet. Charge the public money to operate the lever, with auctioning of the rights to flush our more crooked and/or less competent politicians. That should get enough to make a dent in the national debt.

    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Unhappy

      Re: Tragic

      "I nominate Willetts (and all the rest of the human refuse at Westminster) to be flushed down a giant toilet. Charge the public money to operate the lever, with auctioning of the rights to flush our more crooked and/or less competent politicians. That should get enough to make a dent in the national debt."

      All very patriotic. However that's not quite the speech you can (or should) give when you're a guest of the 1st (or 2nd) richest country on Earth.

      You might like to keep in mind that Willets has also helped shake loose the funding for Reaction Engines Skylon project, which as a side project looked at the logistics of sending an expedition to Mars, called "project Troy "

      Note RELmake no comments on whate nationality it's crew would come from.

      1. MrXavia
        Alien

        Re: Tragic

        Nice! didn't know about their project Troy...

        Although Skylon is clearly the way forward for LEO access now they have proven their pre-cooler technology!

  2. Chris Miller

    2040?

    There'll be a thriving Indian community by then.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 2040?

      The Indian Space Program was outsourced by the UK !

      The logic is so simple even MP's are begining to work it out.

      The UK gives the Indian governement money to help with basic infrastructure projects.

      The Indian's however spend money on space exploration rather than basic infrastructure, because the UK is paying for that.

      Therefor the UK is paying for India's space program.

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: 2040?

        I support this logic!

        ANYTHING to keep the duo terribile of the Indian subcontinent to exchange nukes over the latest rape & holy place burndown events.

  3. Pen-y-gors

    "We are trusted partners of America"

    Trusted by whom, exactly?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "We are trusted partners of America"

      They might trust us, but I for sure don't trust them....

  4. Zmodem

    making my next gen shuttle as a shared project would be better then sending some poeple off to mars in a tin can with no actual point or goal

    6mw perpetual generator and magnetic pulse drives or xenon, you could go back and forth in a day or month with xenon

    push 2 electro magnet poles together in a tube and releae the force, you could go lightspeed with alot of electric when done in space, pulses keep a constant when in a planets atmosphere etc

    1. Zmodem

      countries spent more on the eurofighter, then all the space agencies would need to spend on fabricating more of their semi classified materials to make everything toughened graphite and titanium

      make a magnetic pulse drive and you can leave earth with no need for air combustion, or fuel with some lame 1kw nuclear reactor you need to dump all the waste and heat from into some rubbish plasma drive

      1. DJO Silver badge

        Voting

        We have "Vote up" and "Vote down" buttons, what would be really useful is a "I'm sorry but I think you are completely insane" button.

        1. Zmodem

          Re: Voting

          you could easily put a 100kw generator on a new shuttle smaller then a 747 and abit bigger then NASA`s old shuttle, to power all your super computers etc, and have no need for all the extra weight and insulation of your 1kw nuclear reactor

          pulse drives would take 10 years to master, sitting in a lab going through all the watts and weight to force factors and knowing the timing needed for each pulse to keep a constant thrust

          you could drop off deep space hubbles, and do many things and create new sensors and controll systems and anti gravity, instead of just sending someone into space in a tin can to die

          1. Tom_

            Re: Voting

            It's fantastic what we could do if we just ignored physics, reality and all that other nonsense. :)

            1. Zmodem

              Re: Voting

              push any 2 magnets together and let go, electro magnets can have power upto 1Mw

              you have 3 ring magnets working together, towards the exit of the tube, and the main magnet at the other end, you turn off either of the magnets, and it pushing you forward, an object is an object, you just more powerful magnets

              inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

              its the same as a how maglev train gets pushed along its track, just different math for thruster tubes

              1. NomNomNom

                Re: Voting

                this sounds like a good idea

                1. Zmodem

                  Re: Voting

                  damn right, you would only need 1 powerful pulse when in space, and then you could turn your engines off

                  1. DJO Silver badge

                    Re: Voting

                    You do realize you cannot get more energy out of repelling magnets than the amount it takes to push them together in the first place?

              2. DJO Silver badge

                Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                Amazing, every single word is wrong!

                Space is not a total vacuum, there is friction! Lots if you go really fast.

                It is impossible and undesirable for matter with mass to go at c.

                Time stops at c, consider a photon, from it's perspective it is simultaenously created, at every point in it's journey and destroyed/absorbed/whatever. So if your hypothetical craft attained c it would instantly either crash into something or find itself at the death of the universe.

                1. Zmodem

                  Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                  same old, same old,.

                  1 you have your magnetic pulse propulsion

                  2 you have 40-200 kw spare on your generator, because your a man and you can

                  3 electro magnets can go upto 1mw which is 1 million watts, the same as a wind farm turbine can generate 6mw, 6 million watts while the maximum is 10mw

                  4 when in space, you charge up your magnetric extra power, and blast your small light craft into light speed

                  if you actually wanted to go lightspeed, you would also need a few megawatts for the electro magnetic force field

                2. Don Jefe

                  Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                  Indeed, there is friction in space. There are also lots of wee rocks and 'stuff' in your way. At light, or near light speed, it would not be possible to detect obstacles in time to avoid them. You would run completely through/over the obstacle at the very same time you became aware of its existence.

                  Going really, really fast, in anything (space craft, cars, boats, etc...), isn't just about propulsion. It's as much about controlling your vehicle/craft and navigating at those speeds.

                  Even if we had propulsion that enabled light speed travel it wouldn't do us much good. We also have to build sensors and methods of communication that travel significantly faster than whatever your craft is capable of. We're a long way from anything like that.

                  1. Zmodem

                    Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                    and would just cause plasma, not slow you down a massive amount having to battle against gravity aswell

                    in todays world, a 100kw generator onboard, would give you enough force to get to mars in a day, from a standing orbit, and no need for sling shots or waiting for the weather

                    1. Zmodem

                      Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                      so if a shuttle is docked at the ISS, it could just undock, point its nose at mars, and have 1 powerful magnetic pulse, and deliver some chickens and supplies to mars the next day

                      1. DJO Silver badge
                        Boffin

                        Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                        If what you say was possible, which it isn't, given an average distance to Mars of 225million km, presuming you accelerate half way turn round then decelerate the rest of the way that would subject the ship to a constant force of 12.3G, enough over 24 hours to turn anything organic to mush, and no, suspending in water or a gel of some kind wouldn't help.

                        However from you fantasy you seem to think you'd give it a single blast to a velocity to cruise to Mars in a day and then I guess by magic you'd stop the ship somehow.

                        So to cover 225mkm in 24 hours you need to go at 9,375,000 kmph, if your magnoblast took 10 seconds then the acceleration would be 13,030G, enough to turn a steel ball into a pancake.

                        First learn some maths then try some physics, it might prevent you looking such an idiot.

                        1. Zmodem

                          Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                          you dont need to accelerate half the way

                          push any 2 magnets together you have laying around and let go of one of them, the force the magnet will be push away from the other comes out the thruster tubes and pushes your craft along

                          if you were in space, you would only need 1 powerful pulse, and it would probably get you to mars in a day

                          a 100kw generator and electro magnets could give more 1000s more gauss then any planet

                          maglev trains levitate by pushing 2 opposite poles together, and turn on and off the magnets 100,000 a second to push the train along

                          1. DJO Silver badge
                            Facepalm

                            Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                            Have you read a single word I've typed?

                            The G forces would destroy anything not made of solid metal and a hard metal at that.

                            HOW DO YOU STOP AT THE OTHER END?

                            Magnets do not provide free energy, to get energy out you have to put energy in first.

                            Your maths are way out, say a capsule of 20 tonnes, The energy required to impart a speed of nearly 10million mph would need your little generator to run for a long time.

                            "maglev trains levitate by pushing 2 opposite poles together"

                            ROFLMAO

                            Like poles you idiot, opposite poles attract.

                            1. Zmodem

                              Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                              there are no G forces in space, there is no gravity for there to be any G

                              if you were turning magnets on and off 100,000 times a second, then the previous field has already weakened from the previous push and being turned off

                              unless your going to spend a few years rewriting the rules of thrust and force factors and doing off the math, then nothing will break up

                              its a good job there are 2 types of maglev trains, bothing doing different things with its poles

                              1. DJO Silver badge
                                Alien

                                Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                                You really are mad aren't you?

                                If there were no G forces in space there would be no G forces on a planet, in fact planets couldn't form or stars or anything larger than a few atoms held together by electrostatic forces.

                                Even Star Trek had Inertial Dampeners to counteract the G forces when they manoeuvred, by current physics such a device is fantasy but it would be necessary unless you wanted to keep all manoeuvres to less than a few times 9.81ms/s

                                Please for the sake of your sanity read a basic physics primer paying special attention to Newtons laws and if you understand the maths, what Maxwell had say about magnetism.

                                It it plain from everything you write you know nothing about real physics, perhaps plenty of pretend fantasy physics from the lunatic fringe on the Internet, but I have not seen a single proposal of yours that would or could work.

                                1. Zmodem

                                  Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                                  perpetual generator works, along with magnetic pulse drive

                                  you can make dynamos lighter and more efficient with a motor with the same spin ratio etc

                                  they are the only power source that are better then a fusion reactor

                                  power is green, and needs no other fuel

                                  if nasa's best come up with a cruddy nuclear that can only do 1kw, theres no point dreaming of a magnetic pulse drive

                                  G force are todo with what your body can cope with while gravity affects your blood flow and body, nothing todo with the divine cosmic bollox

                                  maglev trains and frances trains only use a few kw, both can easily do more then 300kph

                                  1. Zmodem

                                    Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                                    if space agencies make a new shuttle, they can go out of orbit as and when and do drone test and invent the rest of space travel

                                  2. cyborg
                                    FAIL

                                    Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                                    "perpetual generator works"

                                    No.

                                    1. DJO Silver badge

                                      Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                                      Cyborg

                                      Don't bother, it's plain that Zmodem is either a troll or insane, I countered every one of his suggestions and he has not answered any of the critique although getting someone who thinks perpetual motion works and that matter can be accelerated to c is a waste of time because it's obvious they either can't or don't want to understand basic physics.

                                      Also he hates everybody on the ISS, his idea of using it as a base for what is basically a space cannon ignores "Every action causes an equal and opposite reaction" as his launch would send the ISS flying off at 100,000 mph and squish everything on board with a force equal to 130G (assuming the projectile is equal to 1% of the ISS mass).

                                      1. Zmodem

                                        Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                                        neither, perpetual generators is all explained on 1 page as simple as it can be explained : here

                                        there is no friction in space, you have magnetic fields from all stars and planets reaching out into the unknown, those fields will not cause you any concern, on your first drive craft

                                        they will affect you if you want to go alot faster, and then you need a force field to turn your craft into a neutron, and then magnets would still have to be turned on and off 100,000 times a second, to stop plasma and the fields you a passing through are always changing gauss/forces

                                        all thrust math and knowledge todo with combustion engines do not apply to magnetic forces, the sun feild in 1 gauss and hold togehter its billion kg mass or whatevers : here

                                        1. Zmodem

                                          Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                                          if space agencies had a new shuttle, they could fly a drone towards the sun, and find out how much power a force field needs to be to stop solar storms, like earth field stop 90% of the radiation

                                        2. MrXavia
                                          Facepalm

                                          @Zmodem

                                          Are you trolling?

                                          You sound quite mad... No G-Force in space? it is the acceleration that causes the G-Force... it is not gravity that causes it... we just measure the force using G's...

                                          You cannot get something from nothing even I cannot accept perpetual motion generators, or that there is no G-Force in space...

                                          1. Zmodem

                                            Re: @Zmodem

                                            because there is earths gravity working inside your cockpit, there is no gravity in space, you float around, and tests are still carried out to find out how no gravity affects your body while floating around

                                            your not getting something from nothing with a mans perpectual generator, trully dont know how thick you all are

                                            you have a battery, the original power from the battery, powers the motor upto its 20RPM which generates the electric, 2% of its power loops back to the motor, the rest of the generated electric goes to the main grid, then its fully perpetual

                                            who gives a fucking shit about having to have a small bit of power to start it up, except for complete twats

                                            1. cyborg
                                              FAIL

                                              Re: @Zmodem

                                              " there is no gravity in space"

                                              Wrong.

                                            2. DJO Silver badge

                                              Re: @Zmodem

                                              Really you are a complete moron, if there was "no gravity in space" what would keep the planets in orbit?

                                              You "float around" because the gravity acting on the capsule and the gravity acting on the occupant are equal so relative to the capsule one is weightless, exactly the same as if you were in a free falling elevator or on a parabolic flight. The tests in orbit are "microgravity" that should give you a clue if you weren't completely clueless.

                                              As for perpetual motion, OK I'm wrong, Newton was wrong, Einstein was wrong, Dirac was wrong, Maxwell was wrong, Hawkins is wrong, Higgs is wrong, in fact every scientist in the world is wrong but you are right, let us know when you collect your Nobel prize.

                                              1. Zmodem

                                                Re: @Zmodem

                                                just paypal me £100 and im good

                                                none of those people were alive, when dynamo`s had billions spent on making them good with direct drive axles so the world could create wind farms and be a workable solution to power needs

                                                just need 40mph bit of wind for 6MW, not a massive lake and the forces of a million gallons a second

                                                1. DJO Silver badge

                                                  Re: @Zmodem

                                                  "none of those people were alive"

                                                  Several of them are still alive now, the formula used to design alternators are all from Maxwell (they do not use dynamos which generate useless DC but alternators that produce useful AC). Also the windfarm type generators have complex gearboxes and are certainly not direct drive as the rpm from a wind turbine would not be adequate.

                                                  I would expect a 7 year old to know that in magnets, like poles repel and opposite poles attract, however you seem to be ignorant of this fundamental fact so if you get that wrong everything else you say is questionable.

                                                  In fact everything you have written is wrong. There are some fundamental laws in physics which in all probability are never going to be found to be false, one of them is the law of conservation of energy which precludes perpetual motion, if even the US patent office reject patents on perpetual motion and they will patent almost anything then it's a fair bet it is impossible but you toddle off to a shed and prove us all wrong.

                                                  1. Zmodem

                                                    Re: @Zmodem

                                                    wind farm turbines have gear boxes for health and safety and stop : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqEccgR0q-o : failures happening and they are all direct drive : http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=direct+drive+wind+turbine : or read the specifications on any power company website which owns a wind farm

                                                    wind turbine have a minimum generating RPM which is needed to begin to generate power, they have a maximum RPM which is normal 20, any faster, no power will be generated

                                                    wind turbines generate, AC/DC watts or volts, anything you need, its all about money

                                                    using a electric motor instead of wind, you have a constant green power source

                                                                  1. Zmodem

                                                                    Re: @Zmodem

                                                                    the electric does`nt have to travel 70km to the power station and back, it moves at lightspeed, from the bottom of the turbine, through the invertor and back to the top to the motor

                                                                    you can make a cheap and nasty generator out of any modern turbine, they generate alot more watts, and the torque needed to spin the blades is alot lower then all other dynamo`s

                                                                    if you have a direct drive turbine, and a motor with the same size axle/shaft and the same ratio, your generator will be 99.8% efficient

                                                                    if simpletons cant work it out, then you can cry when you all drown, and die when the star super nova`s

                                                                    you build perpetual generators the size of houses, and put them in power plant carparks for national grids, you put 6Mw turbines on ocean cargo ships instead of a combustion generator to generate the electric to turn the massive axle on the rotor

                                                            1. cyborg
                                                              FAIL

                                                              Re: @Zmodem

                                                              "i dont need to"

                                                              Then I don't care what you have to say about any of this because so far it's nonsense.

                                                              Put up or shut up.

                                                      1. Zmodem

                                                        Re: @Zmodem

                                                        the whole world fails with all you caring about life and having jobs etc and never writing new chaptors, only knowing what someone else has written

                                                        you can probaly make a cruddy generator with

                                                        http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW-300W-12V-WIND-TURBINE-GENERATOR-WITH-6-BLADES-LIGHT-AND-POWERFUL-/171021484943?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

                                                        http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-120RP-High-Torque-Geared-Box-Mini-DC-Electric-Motor-/290593849957?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item43a8be4265

                                                        although a cruddy charger is`nt a £2000 modern 20rpm turbine

                                                                1. cyborg
                                                                  FAIL

                                                                  Re: @Zmodem

                                                                  "its using power to make a motor turn, which spins the axle of a turbine, which generates 10,000x the amount of power the motor needs and has being looped back is too complex for your imagination"

                                                                  Thermodynamics says no.

                                                                  Feel free to gain your Nobel prize though by doing this though.

                                                                  Put up or shut up.

                                                          1. Zmodem

                                                            Re: @Zmodem

                                                            i dont need to, all the lurkers can, in 30 mins lunch break who read all about paper planes being sent into space

                                                            small turbines are just your scale model for the real thing, and the amount of power thats needed to actually start a generator up is so small, its not worth caring about

                                                              1. Zmodem

                                                                Re: @Zmodem

                                                                its using power to make a motor turn, which spins the axle of a turbine, which generates 10,000x the amount of power the motor needs and has being looped back is too complex for your imagination

                                                                you shut up

                                                                if you have a real tubine, and a power drill motor, you can just take the blade off the turbine, and tighten the turbines axle into the power drills chuck, and let it rip, with a direct drive turbine, and a power drill motor nodoubt as enough torque to spin a 10kw turbines axle, and never use over the 36 watts with a 12v motor

                                                                you need jubilee clicks etc for any other motor

                                                        1. cyborg
                                                          FAIL

                                                          Re: @Zmodem

                                                          Get on and build it then.

                                                    1. Martin Budden Silver badge
                                                      FAIL

                                                      @Zmodem

                                                      Look over there ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->

                                                    2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

                                                      The crank, it turns!

                                                      TESLA TACHYON GENERATORS NAOW!

                            2. chris lively

                              Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                              "HOW DO YOU STOP ON THE OTHER END?"

                              That ones simple. Just ask the guys building electric cars: regenerative braking. You slow down AND accumulate energy all at the same time.

                              1. Swarthy
                                Stop

                                Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                                "HOW DO YOU STOP ON THE OTHER END?"

                                Lithobraking?

                                1. Zmodem

                                  Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                                  by being a scientist, and make it possible to turn your wing thrusters around, and use 3x the power pulses then you would when in earths atmosphere

                                  just like this http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_exopol/exopolZZZZZZP_02.jpg

                                  not this http://atomictoasters.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/panam_orion.jpg

                                  1. Zmodem

                                    Re: inspace, there is no friction, you would go lightspeed

                                    this could work either side of the pond http://hassaanrabbani.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/x-wing-bomber.jpg?w=538

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Peace through mutual bankruptcy

    A brilliant plan.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I am struggling to see what the UK can bring to the table. We neither money nor expertise. What could we possibly contribute? Why would the countries that can actually do this stuff allow our "dull little island with delusions that it's still a super-power" to get involved?

    "helping to broker a deal to get the cooperation necessary...". Sounds like something a junior manager writes on their CV in the absence of any actual achievements.

    1. Ted Treen

      For a start...

      We could bring an unbelievably useless PM (as bad as his two predecessors), who in common with those two, has a massive ego with absolutely no justification for it whatsoever.

      He could have some value as ballast - to be jettisoned whenever necessary or desirable.

    2. El_Fev

      We bring instrument technology, yeah we may not be able to launch the sods but we can build the instruments

      1. Darryl
        Joke

        Instruments, sure, as long as you don't send any Lucas electrics

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      What can we bring?

      The UK is the source of much of the space technology in use today - hell, we even had the first good space program until we dropped a rocket on some sacred dust and the politicos dropped it faster than a turd after a Vindaloo!

      1. NomNomNom

        Re: What can we bring?

        We have a thriving financial center which we could offer to be launched into orbit

        I am imagining the whole City of London blasted into the Sun

    4. Robert E A Harvey

      What the UK can bring to the table.

      We have a pretty impressive set of people who would improve the planet. By leaving it.

      1. Blofeld's Cat

        Re: What the UK can bring to the table.

        "We have a pretty impressive set of people who would improve the planet. By leaving it."

        So what we need then is a set of three spaceships, let's call them the 'A', 'B' and 'C' Arks...

      2. Daniel von Asmuth
        Alien

        Re: What the UK can bring to the table.

        Women go to Venus, men fly to Mars

      3. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: What the UK can bring to the table.

        Yes. The could all meet at the Deep-Fried Mars Bar, then stay there.

    5. DiViDeD

      struggling to see what the UK can bring to the table

      I, on the other hand, am trying to see what he thinks the US can bring to the table that the Russians, Chinese or Indians won't already have in hand.

      With the US current trend of hitching lifts on other peoples' launches, performing experiments in an orbiting station designed and built primarily by other countries, and claiming every ESA probe as a NASA probe (because, like, it's in spaaace, and only NASA ever got into space, doncha know?), I don't see what they can offer except freeze dried chicken dinners and pens that write upside down.

    6. MrXavia

      You are certainly wrong that we have nothing to bring to the table, the UK is well known for Satellites, and they have to be very durable and survive in space for decades, that knowledge can be transferred into the manned space flight arena... and of course we have Alan Bond and his pretty damned impressive Sabre engine...

      the UK is well known for excellent design and engineering, its just we usually do the design and development here and outsource/license the technology so other companies get the credit...

      There is a high chance the main chip your phone is based on a UK design...

      The TV you watch is probably using a UK made satellite to relay itself...

      @DiViDeD

      you are certainly right there, I would suggest the UK/ESA & China go it alone.. I can't see why we need the USA involved in a mission like this? they would just want to take control AND they would not want China involved...

      And personally I would trust China as a partner more than the USA

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Maybe

    The UK will arrange for a Mars One veteran to gain asylum in the UK. I think we need more brains in Govt than Willetts.

  8. Shady

    Please!"

    Let it be Harriet Harman!

    1. Ted Treen

      Re: Please!"

      Harriet Harman's a woman???

  9. rh587

    "And one of the big advantages of the challenge of getting a manned mission to Mars is that it is such a big project that it probably requires global co-operation… "

    Yeah, pretty sure SpaceX are doing their best to prove you can do it on a relatively meagre budget and to a timescale shorter than 2043 if you drop the politics, commit some funding and get on with it.

    They may be standing on the shoulders of decades of NASA research, but SpaceX are now pretty much in a position where if they want to go to Mars they'll do it themselves, with or without international cooperation. The fact politicians still consider this sort of thing to be beyond the abilities of any single nation is laughable - they just can't be bothered (or have bought into the BAE kool aid that it requires a 30 year contract and a bazillion-pound-a-year commitment), and are looking for ways to string out any major spending commitment beyond their term of office "Oh, no, no one could manage that on their own. Need the Russians and the Chinese on board and they haven't signed up yet. It's their fault."

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      SpaceX

      Some of the kit they use comes from the UK!

      They've got their heads on straight and keep the politicians at arms length.

      If the probes find lots of Unobtainium or similar on Mars then I know SpaceX will be there in a flash!

  10. Anomalous Cowshed

    Cooperation

    It's nice to see that the UK is still able to do great things in the world.

    We have the ability to mediate between great powers to encourage cooperation.

    We have more managers per capita than any other nation, and our degrees in paper pushing are second to none. We can offer that too.

    We also have the ability to make the reality TV show charting the progress of the negotiations over cooperation. That's not the same thing as the reality TV show about the actual Mars Mission itself. But it's a step in the right direction, and it shows that the UK is right up there with...with Tuvalu and other media-savvy countries.

  11. Sir Sham Cad

    using space to assist in social and economic development

    That sounds like Tory speak for "Send all the poor people into orbit and kick them out the airlock" to me.

  12. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    FAIL

    And heres an amusing

    little factoid

    The MoD budget is actually bigger than NASA's .... heck the foreign aid budget is almost as big as NASA's

    And dont even dream of 'big space mission to mars' because it wont happen

    Because our politicians are quite happy to chop down any project that wont pay off before the next election

    You only have to look at whats going to happen to our power generation system in the next 2-3 years to see that.

    1. Zmodem

      Re: And heres an amusing

      any announcement of a magnetic pulse drive would have any air force funding especially in america, if they dont look at satelite photos from area 51 to china cloud formations

  13. Adam 1
    Alien

    At least you guys get a science minister

    Our current government has decided that we don't need one. They have also decided that AGW and Y2K are both scams, so I suppose that is no surprise.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re. Mars

    The biggest problem is power.

    What we need is something about 4* the power density as a radioisotope generator, that can be left for years at a time and still cold start perfectly.

    Stirling engine powered RTGs are feasible, one idea for turbocharging these is to use a mixed isotope such as 238Pu with a central rod of something fissionable for pulses such as needed for acceleration.

    Take out the central rod(s) and it goes into conventional mode.

    Also feasible for short term missions are 242Am powered mini reactors started up via a modified whiffle ball aka Bussard Polywell reactor, the lack of power gain is outweighed by the simplicity and ease of construction.

    Each fuel core would generate one pulse to get up to speed and another to decelerate.

  15. MrXavia
    Thumb Up

    It makes sense, international exploration is the way to go

    The UK is small, but is a very big player in satellites and space exploration, but we don't have a manned program of our own or even within the ESA yet, but we have the scientists and engineers with the brainpower to do it IF we are funded.

    China would be a great ally in space exploration, Britain getting in with China with unmanned exploration would be a good start, manned would be brilliant, I would love to see a joint UK/China manned Mars mission, I think China would benefit just as much from a partnership as we would.

    Now I know China has some issues, but if you actually bother to look at the problems, its not usually Central government, its the local officials that are corrupt and try to stop central from knowing when they do bad things... Such as taking peoples land and not compensating them as they are required to by law, then having a private company kidnap & illegally imprison the person if they go to complain in Beijing, so Beijing never knows... They even execute corrupt officials, that is how serious they take it..

    For every bad thing I hear, it is always some local official who is doing it to keep his numbers looking good or to earn money on the side...

  16. The last doughnut

    Willetts

    Surely one of the most stupid people alive. Generally regarded as having "two brains" by those in Whitehall.

  17. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    It's difficult to talk s**t 100% of the time.

    Which makes Zmodem's efforts so remarkable.

    I've found practically all other commentards have some worthwhile opinions some of the time.

    Chatbot? Troll? Severe personality problems? Moron?

    Who knows?

    Who cares?

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I seriously doubt Blighty has the tenacity and patience, much less the ability, to actually act on this.

    Sorry, but the Brits haven't exactly had the frontier spirit necessary to do much more than sit and watch the world pass them by ever since the Empire collapsed. Heck even South Africa is actively working towards launching their own satellites into orbit. South freaking Africa: best known for crime, Sally Struthers and Nelson Mandela. (1 out of 3 ain't bad). If they can get their act together enough to start launching satellites then the Brits may as well just give up.

  19. Neil Craig

    Or, somewhat earlier than that they could just buy tickets on SpaceX, Virgin, Emirates, Singapore or Chinese Spaceships.

    Parasitic western governments have had hundreds of billions to do this and done nothing. But there is no doubt it can be done.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    EMDrive

    I was reading that China are spending mucho Yen on this, it seems that its about as efficient as an ion drive but substantially more compact and cheaper.

    As most of the parts needed are a solid state microwave source and a copper cone shaped chamber this can be built cheaply and also added to many satellites as a way to avoid expending reaction mass to maintain orbit.

    The slightly more efficient one uses MgB2 based coating inside to increase Q factor and operates in pulsed mode which is inherently more efficient than a CW system.

    Also coming online are VASIMR which is an ion drive variant on steroids using argon instead of xenon (cheaper) as well as a couple of electromagnetic fusion ideas using open frame type cores which generate a plasma pulse around the core with a sodium based shrinking disk.

    1. Zmodem

      Re: EMDrive

      all of my stuff obviously works

      http://news.softpedia.com/news/NASA-Creates-Electromagnetic-Propulsion-System-Prototype-122124.shtml

      http://science.howstuffworks.com/electromagnetic-propulsion1.htm

      init, they came, they searched they got me, so i stole it when they showed me around duuuuude

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