back to article Bradley Manning is no more. 'Call me Chelsea,' she says

With the WikiLeaks trial now over, former private first class Bradley Manning has announced the intention to transition sex via female hormone therapy and said she wished to be referred to as Chelsea E. Manning from now on. "I am Chelsea Manning. I am a female. Given the way that I feel, and have felt since childhood, I want …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.
  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A pay cut and a new found obsession with shoes, as if he didn't have enough problems.

    1. jaduncan
  2. Steve Evans

    ah-ha

    This explains why he blabbed so much!

    1. Steve Evans

      Re: ah-ha

      Wooo, big swings of reaction there! To those with a sense of humour which hasn't been gelded from prolonged expose to political correctness, glad to be of service...

      To the others....

      Are there any ladies here?

      No...No.. *cough* NOOOO NOOOO

      </monty python>

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Windows

    He will then go on to blame his leaking of info (for which I applaud him) on a hormonal imbalance.

    Or some other such shit to , ultimately, curry favour....Reduced sentence....Insert ulterior motive..

    I haven't followed it too much recently but does seem to be another knee-jerk solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Except that her gender dysphoria has been known for a long time.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Good for her. I'm sure that publicly announcing the decision is a great weight off her shoulders.

  5. Cucumber C Face
    Paris Hilton

    Whistleblower == outsider?

    Perhaps your average family guy / team player / good old boy is less likely to rock the boat. Whatever else, you have to admire Bradley/Chelsea's cojones.

    Paris? Blowing a different kind of whistle.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Whistleblower == outsider?

      Admire them? If she gets her way you may be able to buy them on ebay soon!

    2. Cliff

      Re: Whistleblower == outsider?

      Good point, takes someone who already feels an outsider to act outside the proscribed framework.

      1. Cliff

        Re: Whistleblower == outsider?

        People behave consistently. I guess one of Chelsea's 'things' is about wanting the truth to be known/being tired of keeping massive secrets. The leaks were a form of coming out by proxy.

      2. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: Whistleblower == outsider?

        "Good point, takes someone who already feels an outsider to act outside the proscribed framework."

        I like your thinking: geek's are well known for being outsiders, too, so I tell you what, let's hire a bunch of them to manage our top-secret IT system. What could possibly go wrong?

  6. Arthur 1

    Interesting

    It's standard practice to get a psychological evaluation before gender re-assignment. To protect people who might be doing it because of mental illness or attention seeking behaviours that they'd later regret mainly. I suppose wanting to spend time in a women's prison instead of a men's one could also be a consideration in this case. I'm very curious to see how that works out for Manning and whether this is deemed sincere.

    No judgement here at all, just the way the whole situation has played out makes this unfortunate timing if nothing else.

  7. DrXym

    Not surprising

    The log transcripts with Lamo that got him arrested basically started with him saying exactly this.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not surprising

      Lets hope Lamo gets whats coming to him - the way manning has been treated there's one shitload of bad karma Lamo's way.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not surprising

        Why? The plan is working perfectly. Yet another shit-storm if the USA internal power struggle.

        Oh, you thought this was about democracy?

        How quaint.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not surprising

        Lets hope Lamo gets whats coming to him - the way manning has been treated there's one shitload of bad karma Lamo's way.

        1 - Lamo has been in no way, shape or form responsible for how Manning has been treated

        2 - Depends on your point of view. Ask someone whose life was put at risk through the leaks. Snowden has at least shown a little bit more restraint there.

        I don't think Lamo should have "anything coming" at all. Manning would have been exposed one way or the other, and I personally think Lamo's decision to report the guy took courage, exactly because of reactions like yours.

        1. Gordon Pryra

          Re: Not surprising

          " Ask someone whose life was put at risk through the leaks"

          Yawn, don't work for an organisation that kills civilians as a matter of course then you wont need to fear this sort of thing.

          On the scales of generic evil, USA/UK easily balance up with any of the Women Fearing sharia toting fundamentalist groups.

          Life is full of choices

          1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
            WTF?

            Re: Not surprising

            Lamo? Seriously, the guy's name is Lamo? Did his parents give him that name? If so, did he sue them (the song "A boy named Sue" springs to mind)? If not, did he pick this as a pseudonym or nom de plume?

            Anyhow, the name Lamo seems curiously appropriate to me, given that he first suggests the information will be treated confidentially by his words:

            "I'm a journalist and a minister. You can pick either, and treat this as a confession or an interview (never to be published) & enjoy a modicum of legal protection."

            And then he blabs. Lamo may have felt he was in a cleft stick, of course, but it was at least in part of his own cutting.

            1. Dave Stevens

              "I'm a journalist and a minister."

              Not a particularly trust inspiring combination.

              I would have asked if he's ever been in a conflict of interest situation. Just to see how much he squirms.

        2. Gordon 10

          Re: Not surprising @AC 23:12

          Happy to ask someone whose life was put at risk. - Can you find me anyone?

          No?

          Thought not.

  8. Don Jefe

    DoD, Doctors, and Congress

    There was a DOD guy on the radio today saying that they do not provide hormone therapy for sexual reassignment or recognize name changes while incarcerated. He'll be referred to by the name and sex he enlisted with for the duration of his stay.

    He also talked about how there is no military medical expertise for dealing with the difficulties of hormone therapy and how even if there were most states and DoD medical ethics prevent doctors from administering the therapy if the patient is in a state of duress or regularly exposed to high stress situations. As well as how the political obstacles of paying for the therapy are pretty much insurmountable.

    I'm not sure, but Manning's timing on this isn't doing him any favors. Now he's going to be under even more pressure from the others inside. Even of they get the challenges sorted it'll likely be about the time he's up for parole anyway. If it were me I think I'd want my lawyer to stop giving the other inmates ammunition for making my life shittier.

    1. david 12 Silver badge

      "stop giving the other inmates ammunition for making my life shittier."

      No, as the lawyer stated, this is a military prison.

      It is full of blokes, both sides of the wire, who follow rules and obey orders. It's kind of like being in the army.

      (Only even more insane and pointless).

      1. monkeyfish

        Re: "stop giving the other inmates ammunition for making my life shittier."

        It is full of blokes, both sides of the wire, who follow rules and obey orders. It's kind of like being in the army.

        Surely they didn't always follow the rules and obey orders, otherwise they wouldn't be in prison?

  9. btrower

    There goes the pea.

    The toady media will be all over this story to shove the real story out of the headlines.

    I support Manning, but it is a shame this irrelevant matter clouds the news. This aids the criminal elements currently in charge of our government. I think they can be caught, stopped and punished, but only if enough of us remain focused on what is important here.

    Sort of unrelated: If Obama were anything even close to what his supporters think he is, he would be pardoning tens or hundreds of *thousands* of federal prisoners. If it were me, I would pardon nearly anyone spending time behind bars for victim-less crimes like drug possession.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: There goes the pea.

      Can't do that - the people who own the prisons lobby.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Anything else?

    If things truly do come in threes he's now got to anounce something even more shocking, like she is from another planet or likes Windows 8.

  11. Mitoo Bobsworth
    Unhappy

    Not sure how to read this

    Honestly - in the turgid wake of US sensationalism current affairs, I'm not sure this hasn't been injected as part of a well orchestrated smear campaign by the powers-that-be, or that these statements haven't been at least partially coerced. As genuine as his/her inclinations may be, the transition from 'national security threat' to "military criminal' to 'transgender attention-seeking nut job' reads like a badly directed Hollywood b movie for me as, once again, the thread of original concern is obfuscated in the public media.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not sure how to read this

      I you trying to say he has been David Shayler'ed? No it's a normal life style choice in Intelligence circles. I have also heard that they have bags of cross-dressers in GCHQ.

      Where's my beer icon because I don't want to drink the water!

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just a ploy to get a presidential pardon from Obama.

  13. Nanki Poo
    Boffin

    It's not rocket science

    Someone who's gotten the bug for being important (Lamo) knows her deepest secret, that was the specific reason she ever contacted him.

    What's Lamo's track record on keeping his gob shut? Oh, there we go, the Rocket Science bit. Chelsea is doing a Stephen Gately, getting in there before the spineless glory-grabbers do.

    Particularly when Lamo starts suffering the social backlash of his actions, how long is it going to be until he cashes in to make himself more popular/rich?*

    Just sayin'.

    * Before people start saying how plenty of people will think Lamo is a hero, remember a good proportion of them don't care much for gender-bending, and with his campaigning history . . . I don't see him being welcome round for tea for a politically liberal discussion.

    nK

  14. Ross K Silver badge

    Military Jail?

    Never been inside one, but I imagine they're a "shit in a bucket in the corner" type of place.

    Somehow I don't think he's going to get hormone therapy, pink fluffy slippers and Hello magazine delivered to his cell every week.

    1. Don Jefe

      Re: Military Jail?

      They're pretty much like civilian prisons but they have footprints painted on the floor where you stand at attention for extended periods (whenever they tell you to), guards and other workers who you still have to salute and respect if they outrank you and literal military discipline (push-ups, sit-ups, chin-ups, extended runs with backpacks loaded with sandbags, jumping jacks, temperature extremes and limited forms of sensory deprivation for punishment). Plus they can yell at you (which can't be done in civilian prisons) and their yelling is scientifically designed to make you feel like the worst piece of shit in the world.

      Probably the worst part (his lawyer is an idiot for saying differently) are the other inmates. They're in prime physical shape, have had aggression forced into them, and regardless of what they did they are still, generally, fiercely loyal to the service and the US. They'll take an especially dim view of what they will consider a traitor.

      It's really going to be awful for Manning, regardless of his gender identity challenges.

      1. Vociferous

        Re: Military Jail?

        While I don't doubt that you're right, I'd think he's still better off in a military prison than a civilian high-security one. Civilian US prisons are more overcrowded, heavily underfunded, the other inmates at least as nasty, and less well controlled. Also Manning is white, which in at least the southern parts of USA would automatically make him a target for harassment, and gay, which would make him a target for rape.

        But to be honest I don't think Manning will survive very long regardless of where he serves his time. He was suicidal after arrest, he's clearly not very mentally stable, and I suspect that sooner or later he'll find a way to off himself.

      2. Dave Stevens

        Re: Military Jail?

        A traitor in jail is someone who rattles on you, not someone who made the country look bad.

        The danger will come exclusively form the prison staff.

    2. NomNomNom

      Re: Military Jail?

      A bucket which is also your bed

    3. Thorne

      Re: Military Jail?

      "Somehow I don't think he's going to get hormone therapy, pink fluffy slippers and Hello magazine delivered to his cell every week."

      I think he might have to settle for being called a "bitch" and get slapped around a bit cause in a military prison, that's all he's likely to get.

  15. Vociferous

    Fair enough.

    But don't call me Shirley.

    1. NomNomNom

      Re: Fair enough.

      airplane

      1. Captain DaFt

        Re: Fair enough.

        Bradley/Chelsea: "Looks like I picked a bad day to stop dicking around!"

  16. Martin Milan
    Black Helicopters

    Justice?

    There's a Facebook post doing the rounds amongst techies in the United Kingdom that compares the sentance Chelsea has received to the far more lenient sentences that have been given out to other members of the military for the killing of non-combatants - even harvesting body parts in one case It's enough to make anyone with a brain stop and think.

    As for the gender reassignment thing - I'll go with her views on how she wishes to be addressed. She acted to try to start a debate on the actions of US Forces, and that debate is needed. The US is no longer the land of the Free by any stretch of the imagination. Nor is it the bogeyma - but things have happened that need to be challenged, or at the very least considered carefully... For my money, I respect her enough for what she has done that I'll call her whatever the hell she likes.

    1. Vociferous

      Re: Justice?

      It's very difficult to get sentenced for war crimes if you're a member of US armed forces. The US court system gives extreme latitude to military personnel in how they carry out their tasks, even more so than to police. Often (as with a company which developed a fondness for shooting civilians at check points) the only punishment has been reassignment back to the states. Also the military courts, being less politicized than civilian courts, on average mete out shorter punishments more in line with what one'd see in European courts than US civilian courts.

      That said, a lot of the recent war crimes committed by US forces were not committed by servicemen, but by US-employed mercenaries, and until three years ago those operated wholly outside all laws, subject to neither US military law, international law, nor local law. The targeted killing of journalists during the early parts of the Iraq war, and the "trophy video" shootings of iraqi civilians appear to have been the work of US mercenaries.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Justice?

      "I respect her enough for what she has done that I'll call her whatever the hell she likes."

      Good point(s) well made. Thank you. (Upvoted, necessarily, but needs more than that).

      I don't do Facebook so haven't seen the sentencing-related comments in question - it presumably references stuff from outside Facebook?

  17. Kaffy

    Lamo and Manning's chat log was released - by Lamo presumably - in mid - 2010...

    (1:11:54 PM) bradass87: and... its important that it gets out... i feel, for some bizarre reason

    (1:12:02 PM) bradass87: it might actually change something

    (1:13:10 PM) bradass87: i just... dont wish to be a part of it... at least not now... im not ready... i wouldn't mind going to prison for the rest of my life, or being executed so much, if it wasn't for the possibility of having pictures of me... plastered all over the world press... as boy...

    (1:14:11 PM) bradass87: i've totally lost my mind... i make no sense... the CPU is not made for this motherboard...

    (1:14:42 PM) bradass87: s/as boy/as a boy

    (1:30:32 PM) bradass87: >sigh<

    (1:31:40 PM) bradass87: i just wanted enough time to figure myself out... to be myself... and be running around all the time, trying to meet someone else's expectations

    (1:32:01 PM) bradass87: *and not be

    (1:33:03 PM) bradass87: im just kind of drifting now...

    (1:34:11 PM) bradass87: waiting to redeploy to the US, be discharged... and figure out how on earth im going to transition

    (1:34:45 PM) bradass87: all while witnessing the world freak out as its most intimate secrets are revealed

    (1:35:06 PM) bradass87: its such an awkward place to be in, emotionally and psychologically

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It doesn't hurt to be nice

    It would be fair if we were all treated the same way we treat others. That isn't true, but I can't help feeling that the world would be a better place if we pretended that it was.

  19. FrankAlphaXII

    The Military Community's been calling him/her Breanna since we first found out about this, nearly two years ago. I forget how we found out, but it was probably from another fuckstick criminal locked up in Arifjan's Stockade, the Meade Stockade, or Quantico's Brig. I thought it was just an immature way of talking shit about a traitor, kinda like how we called John A. Walker* "Johnnie Walker Red". But I guess I was wrong. I'm actually very surprised it wasn't bullshit considering how much shit we talk about each other, much less about someone who's actually done something to fuck us over. You should hear some of our choice words about the Congresscritters and whoever the President happens to be.

    *-John Anthony Walker is a Navy Veteran who set up a spy ring using a Navy Officer unrelated to him, his wife, his son, and he attempted to use his daughter to feed Ballistic Missile Submarine locations and patrol routes for the US and Royal Navies straight to the Soviets. There was a period of time where the GRU and KGB knew exactly where every allied missile submarine was at all times, with the sole exception of the French Navy, until the Walkers got nailed by the FBI and MI5. A famous quote of his was that K-Mart had better security than the Navy.

  20. Katie Saucey
    Pirate

    Well, well...

    ..regardless of the real intentions of Manning and his lawyer, the SJWs (social justice warriors) and the mainstream media are going to have a shit fit over this. Queue the howls of discrimination against the LGBT community, queue the cries for equal treatment for all, but special treatment for him/her/us/whatever.

  21. Frank N. Stein

    Really?

    REALLY??

    Sure that this isn't just some sort of media stunt to inspire some odd form of sympathy? The dude is a man, so it's pretty stupid to refer to him as a "She" or "Her", regardless of him losing his mind after losing his freedom and deciding he wants to be a "she". This isn't going to take the focus off him passing classified documents to a third party, breaking the law, and being convicted for it. And really, you're going to get the military to pay for hormone therapy after they've de-ranked you and made you forfeit your pay? That amounts to THE PUBLIC paying for your hormone therapy with tax dollars, through the military. Personally, I don't think the public should have to pay for some convicted felon's hormone therapy because he's "changed his mind" about what gender he wants to be. You're still going to a man's prison. What do you think is going to happen to you there, whether you get hormone therapy or not??

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Really?

      You're a right dick, aren't you!

      1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

        Re: Really?

        Frank.N. Stein, the doctor just called. He says certain parts weren't sewn on correctly, please report to him for urgent replacements and refits

    2. Gordon 10
      Trollface

      Re: Really?

      Am I the only one whose thinks Frank N Steins comment is deeply ironic coming from a commentard who by his name has clear Rocky Horror leanings?

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Is this the Onion?

    I really thought I had a different site or perhaps it was Aprils fools...

    1. Don Jefe
      Happy

      Re: Is this the Onion?

      I know two April's and two Avril's none of them own any fools...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @ Don Jefe

        In order to pull off a grammar joke, it helps if you have a basic idea of what you're talking about.

  23. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
    Coat

    Can't get this out of my mind

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXe95iTtci0

    Joni Mitchell singing ..... Chelsea Morning.

    Sorry but at least I'm old enough to remember it originally

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This may backfire badly

    This announcement is not going to buy him any goodwill in the nick. The prison management may well decide he is a risk to internal order and incarcerate him in solitary 'for his own protection''.

    His lawyer will then argue for cruel and unusual punishment, but the military don't put much truck in what they see as 'civilian bullshit'. At least not here.

    He may eventually get a limited pardon for humanitary reasons, but by then he will have suffered greatly.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This may backfire badly

      Yes, but considering the kind of treatment (s)he's been getting, that might actually be an improvement. I don't think anyone living through that is going to come out as a normal person.

      Having said that, it takes courage to do the things (s)he's done, certainly more than 99% of the posters on El Reg (sadly, probably, including myself...).

  25. Anomalous Cowshed

    cor

    This is becoming a very complex story. Let's hope there is a positive twist (an appeal, a pardon) and that it ends well, and doesn't turn into a tragedy. We need some positive outcomes, our trust in the social contract is being eroded, and the protagonist needs to live a normal life and not be sacrificed on the altar of expediency and revenge.

  26. Ralph B

    Validity of Self-Declarations?

    What is the legal and social validity of these self-declarations in the US?

    A person announces a new name for themself: Is this now legally their new name? Or is there a lengthy legal process to be followed? Do we now instantly start using this new name because it legally is their new name, or only because we are social mammals with empathy and we realise that using the new name would please and/or respect that person, even if it is not (yet) a legal necessity?

    A person announces a new sex for themself: Is this now legally their new sex? Or are there lengthy legal and medical processes to be followed? Do we now instantly start using the new gender pronouns when refering to this person because it legally is their new sex, or only because we are social mammals with empathy and we realise that using the new gender pronouns would please and/or respect that person, even if it is not (yet) a legal and/or medically necessity?

    If self-declaration is indeedm, in some cases, instantly legally binding, what else could one successfully self-declare in the same manner? Ethnicity? Height? Species? Guilt?

    (Not being snide, just genuinely interested.)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Validity of Self-Declarations?

      It depends on local rules. In Thailand for instance, you can quite easliy change your gender, in fact, there's an official third gender just for ladyboys.

      For normal civilians living in a western quasi-democracy, it's actually not all that hard to officially change your gender. Following from that, you can choose to have your name altered to fit your new identity.

      As for your other questions:

      Ethnicity --> Michael Jackson

      Height --> Platform shoes

      Species --> Well, let's face it, most people on the internet don't seem to belong the same species...

      Guilt --> Stop being a catholic should do it.

  27. Captain_Aluminium

    I'm glad El Reg's coverage refers to her as "She", the Beeb weren't quite so sensitive to trans issues in their coverage, I had to replace gender pronouns as I read through their coverage..

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I'm guessing there are sometimes competing choices between which gender pronoun a transsexual wishes to be addressed as, which gender pronoun 'society' collectively expects to be applied and the gender pronoun that is legally applicable. If true, I can see a logic that would drive a news organisation to use the legally applicable pronoun.

  28. This post has been deleted by its author

  29. TrishaD

    Prison

    I wonder if we might, for the moment, leave aside the debate regarding whether or not Chelsea Manning deserves to be in prison?

    I think also that we can dispatch the argument that she has only 'revealed' her transgender status (or indeed made it up) in order to get preferential treatment. It's clear that this is something that she had revealed to others well before carrying out the actions that led her to be where she is.

    There is a standard protocol, developed many years ago, for the effective treatment of people who suffer from GD. It starts with specialist counselling to allow the person to fully explore the depth of their gender identity issues and to determine whether coping strategies exist. In my own case, that's where it stopped. I can cope and can do so without transition. I'm one of the lucky ones. For others, the next stage is female hormones (male in the case of people who are Male to Female TSs). These suppress the male sex drive and provide an endrochrinal balance that's more suited to the gender that the person identifies as. In the UK, because most people go through transition on the NHS, the next stage is the Real Life Experience - two years in which the person must present full time in their gender, and live and work in that gender. It's only then that Sexual Reasignment Surgery takes place.

    If she's very lucky, Chelsea Manning will get counselling. That would seem to me the bare minimum to satisfy the requirements of basic human compassion. It would seem extremely unlikely that she'll be prescribed hormones or be offered any other form of treatment until her eventual release. The very best she can hope for is for a transfer to a womens' prison as soon as her GD has been confirmed by a qualified clinician.

    Chelsea Manning has been in a prison since well before her initial arrest. Because that's what gender dysphoria is like. It's a sense of being trapped in an identity that does not match the one you feel to be real. So she is now in prison both literally and figuratively. She is about to go through living hell, regardless of how much of her sentence she serves.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Prick

        I wish you didn't have one. Unfortunately that would probably reduce your IQ to unmeasurable levels. Que sera.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I have no comment to make

    I'm just confused.

  31. Maharg

    Unfortunately it seems Manning has been exploited and used as a scapegoat by both the US Military and Mr Assange.

    I don’t think Lamo did anything wrong, from what I can see he didn’t view the contents of what Manning was leaking, speaking to someone in confident and being supportive about their gender issues is one thing, but then to be told by that person they are leaking “classified documents” from your countries military is a whole other kettle of fish.

    I feel sorry for Manning and hope she gets all the help she needs to ensure she can be as emotionally stable as possible while serving her sentence, however I don’t blame Lamo, I think I, and most of us, when faced with the situation would have done the same thing.

  32. Brian Allan

    A disservice to all good females on the planet!!

  33. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Unhappy

    I can't help wondering if 'they' just totally scrambled his brain.

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    He's in deep shitze

    Manning is going to a mens prison so he is in for one Helleva reality check, which is great. If he makes it our alive, he can have all the sex changes he wants.

This topic is closed for new posts.

Other stories you might like