back to article Microsoft Surface Pro sales CANNIBALIZING Surface RT

The bad news just keeps coming for Microsoft's vaunted line of Surface fondleslabs, with sources reporting that sales of the devices continue to disappoint. Redmond has sold just around 1.5 million of the devices to date, Bloomberg reports, citing sources who claim knowledge of the company's sales figures. That's a little …

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  1. Tom 35

    Surface Pro sales CANNIBALIZING Surface RT

    Or all the people interested in RT already bought one, and sales would have tanked without help from the Pro.

    1. Katie Saucey

      Re: Surface Pro sales CANNIBALIZING Surface RT

      Indeed, if I was inclined to poke this product line with a 10ft pole, it sure wouldn't be an RT. BTW I'll save everyone the keyboarding time with the "told you so..MS fail etc". Now I'll just grab my pint and wait for Edons 2 cents.

    2. jptech
      FAIL

      Re: Surface Pro sales CANNIBALIZING Surface RT

      I agree.

      I want to know who these analysts are who thought that surface RT or Pro would sell better?

      I'm not an analyst, and I knew it wasn't going to sell.

    3. Charles Manning

      ...or... 2

      The RTs were bought by developers for testing and IT departments to test out these new fangled devices. Now they are buying Pros for further testing.

      Perhaps neither is getting much real traction in the market place.

      1. Katie Saucey
        Devil

        Re: ...or... 2

        OK, Charles you might have a point. Do you know where I can acquire one of these fun boxxes?

        1. big_D Silver badge
          Megaphone

          Gave up...

          I gave up waiting for the Pro to become available, I bought a Samsung ATIV instead.

          And, with the Atom and Windows 8, why would I buy an RT based device for about the same money? The Atom offers the same battery life (10-12 hours), runs without fans, is light and silent and runs all my normal Windows applications in addition to the Metro stuff...

    4. Shagbag
      FAIL

      Spinal Tap

      I've tried, but I can only think of one way MSFT can spin the sales figures and that's to paraphrase Ian Faith.

      "Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no...no, no, not at all. I, I, I just think that the.. uh.. [its] appeal is becoming more selective."

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Surface Pro sales CANNIBALIZING Surface RT

      The Pro isn't available in the UK yet so no cannibalizing here yet.

      Pro looks like a great device if a bit pricy but by the time it is available we'll be reading Haswell benchmarks, comparing battery life and speculating on how soon Pro 2 will be available. Unlike the Apple market where many customers will likely buy iPad 4 or Mini right up to the time iPad 5 and Mini Retina are announced, the market Surface Pro is addressing is more conscious of product lifecycle and less likely to pay premium price for a soon to be replaced model. In short, the first generation Surface Pro was too late for USA release and far too late for rest of the world so never stood a chance for volume. It remains to be seen whether Microsoft can do better with time to market in the next generation.

      As for Surface RT, I never saw it as more than a Microsoft insurance policy in the ARM v x86 war in case Intel can't deliver battery life and competitive pricing on silicon for mobile. As with most insurance, the hope must be they never need to claim. I'm at a loss as to why anyone except a developer might want to buy one, apart from deep-pocketed gadget collectors of course. The fact that Microsoft spent a lot of money on advertising that could never pay off in sales rather than present it as a reference device says more about the corporate nature of the beast. Likewise the OEM licensing model for Windows RT seems to reflect internal turf wars rather than a coherent strategy. Windows success was partly driven by the fact that OEM pricing of Windows+Office was between 5-10% of the retail price of a complete PC system and in a tablet market dominated by $200-600 devices, its a no-brainer that Windows RT needs to go back to pricing basics if it wants to compete with Android.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Surface Pro sales CANNIBALIZING Surface RT

        By the summer, most all tablet product lines will have switched to 2013 grade SoC. Apart from bargain basement, Tegra 3 will have vanished. So Surface RT has only 3/4 months to go unless pricing is reduced into budget territory. I can't understand why anyone would buy a new iPad 2 but apparently they do so maybe there is a market for Surface RT at £250 with touch cover though I wouldn't bet on it.

      2. hugh wanger

        Re: Surface Pro sales CANNIBALIZING Surface RT

        very rarely does a post hit the nail on the head, this one does. Spot on.

        Microsoft internally clearly have big differences of opinion, WinDiv v Devdiv etc.

        And I also think you are correct, insurance for Intel failing. Intel have 2 more changes in smaller silicon coming and if battery improves with it and they can match arm - game over. Business will stick with it.

        There is no need for religeon on this either, if people want cheap consumer Android tablets thats great. Pricier stuff for work / Office etc can co-exist without internet trolls killing each other :)

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    MS have not done themselves any favours in shifting these things, just a few mistakes off the top of my head:

    1 - The initial release of RT not being in retail stores

    2 - The lack of 3g or 4g connectivity options

    3 - The inability to install non Metro apps on the RT model

    4 - The shocking execution of the Pro model release that pissed of lots of loyalists

    5 - Inability to join a domain form RT models

    Microsoft are clearly not experienced in this market and will hopefully learn a few lessons. I will happily pick up a Surface Pro when it has 3g or 4g connectivity.

    1. big_D Silver badge

      Still not available...

      the pro still isn't available here (Germany) and the RT only from Microsoft online or a few Staples outlets...

  3. Joseph Lord
    FAIL

    Relative measure OK

    Maintaining sales between Q4 and Q1 (after the Christmas peak and initial launch excitement heading into low season except for Chinese New Year where relevant) is pretty good even with a longer time period for sales available. If it had been a great launch this would a great result for MS...

    ...however the bad news is that BOTH quarters are catastrophically small compared to major rivals (Apple and Samsung). Based on the figures in this article Apple outsold them by more than 30x in Q4 despite pre-Christmas iPad mini shortages.

  4. Mikel
    Devil

    prepared to offer tender words of consolation

    "The Reg reached out to Microsoft and was fully prepared to offer tender words of consolation, but the software giant declined to comment. ®"

    Laughed. May as well make this one a fixed footer for all Microsoft stories henceforth.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: prepared to offer tender words of consolation

      Looks like they've decided to copy Apple's PR too...

  5. Rukario
    Devil

    Subhead Correction

    Redmond's slab slump continues despite because of Windows 8 model

    There, fixed it.

  6. Chairo
    Facepalm

    Not surprising

    Most people in the target market (the ones with enough cash for a surface, that is), have by now experienced what a "walled garden" means by ways of their various I thingies. People grudgingly accept it from Apple because they have the feeling the get something back, like, say, the feeling of security, stability, lots of app choices, etc.

    Ask the average person on the street what he connects with Microsoft. And now ask yourself if you expect him to buy a Surface device...

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    MS just called...

    ...they want the 90's back

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Selling stuff is hard

    Microsoft has gone through so many decades of people automatically buying their stuff (for various reasons, including monopolies) that they still assume that tens/hundreds of millions of people will buy anything they make.

    The hubris annoys me and I'm glad they're going to have to come to grips with reality soon. And the reality is that people don't trip over themselves to buy "meh" products.

    1. DAN*tastik

      Re: Selling stuff is hard

      Part of it was because people were automatically buying their stuff ( Office for example ).

      Part of it was because people automatically found their stuff in what they were buying ( Windows ).

    2. Big-nosed Pengie

      Re: Selling stuff is hard

      If it hadn't been for the stroke of genius of locking in their crapware on all new computer sales they'd have vanished up their own collective fundament years ago. Now they're faced with a situation in which people actually have to make a *specific choice* to buy their shite, and guess what...

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Looks like there'll be plenty of half-decent tablets going dirt cheap in a year or two once someone figures out how to jailbreak them.

    1. Ted Sbardella
      Trollface

      "Jailbreak" means run Linux

      oh.. I mean android.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "Jailbreak" means run Linux

        No, jailbreak here means "run anything you damn well please".

        Yes, Linux and Android will be two big ones, but also NetBSD, etc, as well as running any Windows/ARM application on the now jailbroken Windows RT if they so choose.

    2. Robert E A Harvey

      going cheep

      I thought that. There will be a shedload going cheap.

      I'll offer £50

      for a dozen.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    RT having a negative impact on Pro?

    Every now and again we get someone asking "can I run program X on an iPad" - where X is typically something they know and love from the XP era. It the RT models did not exist I could send them out to look at the full-fat Windows 8 tablets - however human nature being what it is, the odds are that they would end up with an RT machine that cannot run said program.

    If the RT trap disappeared, it would be much easier to ensure that people get a tablet appropriate to their needs and budget. Though for those who can afford a Surface Pro and *dont* need to run x86 Windows applications, a MacBook Air is likely to leave them happiest.

  11. Spud69

    Microsoft have come to the table about 2 - 3 years to late. I think this can safely be seen as a flop.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Surface Pro is a pretty cool product - much better than anything from Apple or Android - and it only just launched. I wouldn't be so quick to write it off.

      I want one, but I am waiting until the next generation of low powered Intel chipsets and CPUs ship ~ mid year - which presumably will be the 'Surface 360' lol.

      1. Smoking Gun

        We have a bunch of customers waiting to buy the Pro. To my knowledge still not released in the UK or "Coming Soon". I'm not sure how, in the UK, Pro sales can be cannibalizing RT sales when the dammed Pro is not even on sale in the UK!!

      2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
        Coat

        > I want one, but I am waiting until...

        Sounds like on of those astroturf posts that promote dead games on gamer forums.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Surely that would be 'I have one and it's great'?

          I might want one too, but they are not yet sold here :-(

          The dell XPS 18 looks pretty cool too.....

        2. mmeier

          Or maybe someone who already has a fully functional Windows/x86 tablet pc (or convertible) and can afford to wait. On the job I have an aging but still solid T731 with dual battery, SSD and a dock, privatly I use a EP121(1) Both main units are still "good enough" compared to the current gen "ivyBridge" equiped units(2). So waiting for Haswell (or at least a y-Series) is "the right thing" since the benefits of the new CPU (faster GPU, lower power consumption, better sleep modes). Even waiting for BayTrail Atoms may be an option

          (1) and a "tested, to slow, given to the workers" Q550 as a light reader

          (2) The EP121 got a "Centrino" card for 1st gen WIDI

      3. Shagbag
        Thumb Up

        Upvote!

        I upvoted you...

        ...because anyone who's game enough to reveal they're a shit-for-brains deserves an upvote for their honesty.

    2. mmeier

      With RT - yes. The "status driven" crowd uses iThingies, the "cheap" crowd uses Android and those who need a tablet pc use Windows/x86 since the turn of the century. Not much place for a "castrate" like Win/RT.

      With PRO: No. Tablet PC and Windows are married for a decade. The S/P is just the first hardware from MS. Writing this on an aging T731 in tablet mode

    3. Rberns

      Maybe a better headline would be:

      Microflop fails to surface

    4. Mikel
      Windows

      years too late

      Especially since their Surface RT is essentially a year-old Asus Transformer Prime without the dock and the Android software with apps? Yes.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: years too late

        "Especially since their Surface RT is essentially a year-old Asus Transformer Prime" -

        Except with a more powerful CPU/GPU, a better OS, a better screen, an injection moulded magnesium chassis, a 3mm thick touch keyboard cover and software inc Microsoft Office. So not exactly 'essentially'

        1. GreenOgre
          FAIL

          Re: years too late

          "Except with a more powerful CPU/GPU, a better OS, a better screen, an injection moulded magnesium chassis, a 3mm thick touch keyboard cover and software inc Microsoft Office."

          ... So those "improvements" would be reflected in the sales figures then?

  12. McVirtual
    Facepalm

    $urface

    It was always simply too expensive. What market were they trying to break?

    There smartest bet would have been to take the WinPho OS to a tablet, not deploy an expensive laptop alternative !!

    Idjuts...

    1. Thomas 4

      Re: $urface

      I know, right? I'm rather fond of my Lumia and would happily splash out on a Windows Phone 8 10 inch slab but the fact that even Microsoft's hardware partners are refusing to touch RT with the proverbial pole speaks volumes.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: $urface

      You are comparing toys to corporate tools. Enterprise solutions like Surface Pro will almost always cost more.

      1. Tom 35

        Re: $urface

        You are comparing toys to executive toys. Executive toys like Surface Pro will almost always cost more.

        Fixed it for you.

        Even then I find most are requesting Windows 8 Ultrabooks with touch for Executive toys over the Surface Pro.

        1. mmeier

          Re: $urface

          Bzzt - Wrong. Tablet PC have been in use for a good decade. And mostly NOT be executives but rather by engineer types.

          1. Tom 35
            Facepalm

            Re: $urface

            You think "engineer types" is the target Microsoft is after with the Surface / Surface Pro? Good one!

            Check out all the "engineer types" in this Microsoft Surface Pro ad.

            http://youtu.be/l2KPQNP1Z1s

            So lots of great engineering aps in the not-metro app store then I expect eh?

            1. mmeier

              Re: $urface

              Engineers do not buy based onadvertisement. They buy based on needs and capabilities. If in doubt they evaluate and test and /or check reputable sources.

              1. Tom 35

                Re: $urface

                Are you really that stupid or are you just pretending?

                If it's just the same people who bought XP Tablet, or Win7 Tablets then Surface will be a total fail. MS is NOT looking to sell to Engineers, they want to sell to all the people buying iThings. They want BYOD people to buy them.

                They are selling them from booths in shopping malls. They are running lifestyle ads for them.

                Do Engineers buy their specialized tablet computers from a booth at the mall?

                1. mmeier

                  Re: $urface

                  And? Are engineers forbidden to evaluate hardware that also sells to Joe Average? If it fits the needs and is "best for the money" I do not care for the advertisement or "target audience" - I buy the thing. Depending on the lot size and service contracts needed from the shop next door, the larger distributer or the manufacturer directly. Where is the problem?

  13. Stacy
    Meh

    With the exception of the low res screen

    I actually really like it.

    I thought it was not going to be great, but then I played with one, and yes. It works really well.

    Still, 700 euros is a bit much when I already have a Transformer Infinity... (Though if I was buying today I would accept the lower resolution and take the RT).

    What I don't get is the stealth launch. Everyone knows the iPad. Most know Samsumg / Asus tablets. No one outside of an IT professionals who I know about the surface. If you don't even tell people about a product how on earth are they ever going to buy it...

    1. Mikel
      Windows

      This is a Microsoft employee blogging phenomenon

      If you own one of the blogs where these things are discussed your server logs are rich with well-known Microsoft IP addresses. If their English isn't good they usually just paste talking points straight from the internally circulated "discussion guide", sometimes in context-inappropriate spots. Some try to rephrase as is recommended, but their lack of idiom leads to hilarious results and they cannot engage in a protracted discussion. Some are quite good. But they all bring their point of view involving whose fault it is.

      The software engineers blame marketing, praising the UI and "design language". The hardware folks blame marketing too, pointing out their "innovative" features saying it's an excellent product nobody knows about despite a half-billion spent on ads and even though the RT hardware is an obvious retread of a year-old Android tablet that had been far surpassed on Surface launch day. The marketers blame engineering and manufacturing. The Office team even chimes in, pointing out that their ware is "essential for business and included free" neglecting the facts that this is the consumer grade tablet and the software isn't licensed for business use. By blaming each other they point to flaws in the team effort, and by using obviously ridiculous and untrue memes "enterprise grade" "not a toy" "Microsoft has unlimited funds to put it over", by making light about the weakness of the ecosystem - they reveal who they are. Most especially when they trot out the same fifteen talking points to every article over and over, bringing them into every discussion as can be seen in this and every ElReg article in the context list.

      They don't realize we know who they are and how fiercely competitive they are being about trashing their own product and each other. It's funny to watch really. There are so many of them and they are so hard at it that you need only mention and disparage a Microsoft mobile product in your article to get hundreds of comments and thousands of views - enough to make it worthwhile even if it's only the 'softies trying to out-shout each other about which of them is most at fault for the fact that the product is collecting dust on the shelf. By doing this they are even making it profitable for the various blogs like ElReg to glance askance at their ware.

      1. roselan
        Unhappy

        Re: This is a Microsoft employee blogging phenomenon

        But at least the Chinese army seems to be out of MS payroll for now.

        and meanwhile, I mourn minimsft blog death.

  14. calumg
    Happy

    This is good news indeed

    I have no axe to grind with Microsoft as compared with other tech companies, but it's simply not healthy or good for consumers for any one company to have such a monopoly as Microsoft did. It just leads to stagnation and lock-in.

    Therefore it warms me that Microsoft's plans to exploit its desktop OS to create another ecosystem are failing.

  15. strangelybrown
    Stop

    PlayBook anyone?

    Competent, trusted (arf), maker of things produces a technically capable and likeable device which has an ecosystem that makes the genetic pool of Hull look diverse. It keeps the price high, in the belief that people will buy it simply because they already have other products made by it.

    Despite said device selling like ice cubes at the North pole, maker of things resolutely refuses to accept that said device is, in fact, irrelevant/overpriced/useless/lacking cellular connectivity. "Look at the funky adverts! Don't you want the shiny? Our shiny is so much better than the other shiny because... because... well, because we made it!"

    After a while, maker of things slashes the price, which although stimulates a blip in volume of device, just ensures everyone's granny has a cheap device for listening to The Archers that doesn't matter if it absent-mindedly ends up in the dishwasher, or microwave. The ecosystem remains an exercise in uselessness.

    Finally, seeing the metaphorical ageing family labrador that keeps pooing on the corporate sofa for what it is, the device is quietly taken out the back and put out its misery. No mention is ever made of it again in polite company... especially not when they're sat on the corporate sofa.

    That said, when the price is slashed to two shillings sixpence, I'd definitely be getting a PlayBook, sorry, Surface; my mum put her last one in the dishwasher.

    1. TheOtherHobbes

      Re: PlayBook anyone?

      "the metaphorical ageing family labrador that keeps pooing on the corporate sofa"

      No one likes Steve Ballmer.

      1. Mikel
        Thumb Up

        No one likes Steve Ballmer? I do!

        I'm a HUGE Steve Ballmer fan. I think he's just the guy to guide Microsoft to where I want them to go.

  16. carlos_c

    I think there is a Market

    For the pro ..that is , just shipped out a couple of HP elite pads to a client, they already had an ipad - it just didn't do what they wanted. The surface pro running on atom seems to work well, quite a smooth os and runs full office and their other apps.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Linux

      Re: I think there is a Market

      You currently have 3 downvotes, probably because people don't like to hear a Windows product works. But for a Debian fan like me, it is not that it actually works which makes it ugly, it is that it will never work the way I need it too. That being said, if the "Pro" model works for extremely non-technical people, then it just...works.

      Anyways, you are the example being made in this article. In your own words you described the failure... "...just shipped out a couple..."

  17. Mark Allread

    Another day, another win 8 hater story on the reg

    This time, the surface angle. The Register seems keen to forget that the Surface is in a market with all other Windows 8 machines whereas the iPad is not. Microsoft has deliberately balanced the Surface's availability and exposure to keep their competing OEMs sweet. The Register really ought to know and understand this.

    1. Pookietoo

      Re:Microsoft has deliberately balanced the Surface's availability

      Yeah right, cunning strategy to encourage their valued partners to produce loads of Windows tablets, by showing how popular they are.

      1. mmeier

        Re: Re:Microsoft has deliberately balanced the Surface's availability

        All possible partners are already building Windows/x86 tablets or convertibles. Most have been doing it for a decade or more. They know their job and their customer base. Most of the partners did not show them at the large outlet stores due to the price and target market that's the only change with Samsungs "Wartburg" tablet (Ativ 500) being seen side by side their "Trabbi" (Note 10.1)

        Btw: Does someone know who builds the Surface/Pro? IIRC MS has no own factory so this is OEM. From the general looks, lack of an EP121/B121 "follow up" (Taichi is a convertible) and prior history I assume ASUS since the EP121 was offered through MS stores AND used as the demo tablet pc for Win8 by MS.

  18. Paul Shirley

    not cannibals

    I too doubt there's much cannibalizing going on. IT insiders were already waiting for pro, I suspect 400k may seriously overestimate ingoing interest, with the fans now satiated.

    The ordinary public meanwhile have seen RT and ignored it. All they know is Pro is heavier and more expensive. A few know RT is crippled a as a traditional Windows machine and will assume Pro is also. Microsoft's deliberate ploy to confuse RT and Pro versions is hurting them badly, not cannibalism but devaluing the entire product line to its LCD.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up

      Re: not cannibals

      "Microsoft's deliberate ploy to confuse..."

      That is it exactly!

      I am by no means technically naive, but I don't know what the fuck is what anymore with Microsoft products. Is it a RT, is it a PRO, is it a Windows 8, is it a tablet, desktop, phone, ISP, vacuum...someone said it was "cloud" ready, but I don't fly!

      At this point, I only know I can buy "Microsoft", but not sure what isle in Walmart to find it (lawn & garden, automotive, produce?). Fuck it, it's all too confusing. I'll buy what my friend has, it has a green robot on it, so that feels cool already.

  19. Jeff 8

    Lower the price

    I think for the tablet to succeed, they need to follow the console model and take a loss on the cost of the device and try and make the money back through the app store and possibly other software with the pro.

    The iPad name is now synonymous with tablets, and it's not like other device haven't tried to break that. They need to lower the price by $100 - $150 for this venture to work. MS need to realize they're not the major game in town anymore, and they need to fight to get back their customers.

    1. mmeier

      Re: Lower the price

      Won't work with the Pro. Win8 tablet pc are exactly that Win8 PC! They run every Windows software just fine, the pen is a great mouse replacement so they work. Don't think of Surface/Pro and the other x86 penables as "iThingy inspired toy-breed" but rather as "netbook/notebook/ultrabook with extra capabilities".

      Apps will be a "nice toy" for this but people won't pay 10€ for the Modern equivalent to "Photoshop Touch" for Android - if they want to do some image manipulation they simply install GIMP. They won't pay for Polaris Office - they install OO. And so on.

      The "touch only" toys like the Acer-Units, the Yoga etc. might be the ones that make more use of Modern Apps. But my guess is they'll follow Win/RT to an early grave once people realize that for not much more money up front they get a LOT of added functionality and lower software costs.

      And that's just the privat sector. Companies will make use of their licences for Windows-Software anyway.

      1. Tom 35

        Re: Lower the price

        "netbook/notebook/ultrabook with extra capabilities".

        Netbook??? or even notebook at that price? NO.

        Ultrabook? well the price is right, but the only extra capability is you can use it as a tablet. You are not going to be doing much typing on it, at least with the pen it's usable with desktop apps. Add the keyboard and it's still useless in your lap as it's too top heavy, you need a table (I know I have an RT with keyboard*).

        So the Surface Pro is a tablet that can function as a real computer in a pinch. Add the keyboard and you have a crappy Ultrabook. That might be a good combo for a few people, but it's not going to be mass market.

        * The Surface RT was a gift. It spends most of it's time sitting on the table next to my chair at home in case I want to google something. When I go out I take my Nexus 7 with me, or if I need to type or use Office my Netbook. Both are easy to tether to my cell phone with bluetooth. I had to google to find out how to tether the Surface to my phone, why is it such a pain to do stuff in Windows 8?

        1. mmeier

          Re: Lower the price

          What problem? Tethering in Win8 runs the same as in Win7. Select network, enter passphrase and go

          Can not say how tethering in RT works, never used that nor do I plan to. RT is just another castrate toy-tablet OS like iOS or Android - useless for me.

          As for the rest - try using a penable for a week or two and you will understand the differences. No need to use a keyboard when you have it in the arm/lap - pen replaces that. Keyboards only come out (if at all) when you have a useful surface. Been using penables (convertibles and slates) since 2003 that way.

          1. Tom 35

            Re: Lower the price

            "What problem? Tethering in Win8 runs the same as in Win7. Select network, enter passphrase and go"

            No, Bluetooth tethering, no wifi...

            First you go to settings.

            Change PC settings

            Wireless

            Bluetooth on

            Select Devices, add device, pair your phone.

            Now the stupid part. You have to go to the control panel, Devices and printers (not the other device screen, not the networking...).

            Select the phone, Connect using, Access point.

            There is lots of stuff like this, half in not-metro and half in the desktop. I expect it's the same half baked process with Windows 8 Pro.

            My netbook running XP was easy, took about 30 seconds to figure out, things were where I expected them to be.

  20. Tony Paulazzo

    UBS analyst Brent Thill initially predicted that Microsoft would move 2 million Surface slabs in the fourth quarter. In fact it sold little more than a third as many, despite launching Surface RT in time for the holiday shopping season.

    He guessed wrong. I guessed right, I knew they wouldn't move any significant numbers at the prices they were quoting. I'm pretty sure Amazon and Google aren't selling their 7 inch tabs @ £150 because they want poor people to have one, but because they did market research that told them at what price a device would sell in an iPad saturated market.

    I'm beginning to wonder if MS did any market research about anything they've done recently: Office 2013 looks like shit, Not Metro & Win8 doesn't work well with just keyboard & mouse (just put back the fucking start menu already), and the Surface RT doesn't even have a reason for its existence.

    They didn't need to make the Surface Pro tough enough to use as a skateboard, should'a thrown in the cheap keyboard and Office inc. a years license with the pro and sold the whole thing for £500 ($800 ish). I'm pretty sure Sinofsky would still be there if they'd done that - maybe.

  21. Sporkinum

    Have an HP touchpad

    I got one of the firesale Touchpads for my wife, and she loves it and uses it daily. It only cost $150 though. Surfaces will take of when they hit firesale pricing.

    Tempted to get a Playbook for $90 today at Cowboom, but will pass as I really don't need one.

  22. Christian Berger

    They would have a simple way to boost sales...

    Sell the Surface without Secure Boot and operating system, so the user can install whatever operating system they want. I mean there probably are a lot of solutions where you just need a "device" which will run exactly one piece of software in Autostart. Doing this with any older version of Windows or Linux or whatever it trivial. And even at the current prices, it is very competitive to custom devices.

    1. mmeier

      Re: They would have a simple way to boost sales...

      The S/P is "certified for Win8" so you can switch off secure boot. Not that I would use any "complete" system for a "one trick pony" - that's what stuf like the Rasberry Pi is for

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: They would have a simple way to boost sales...

      "Sell the Surface without Secure Boot and operating system, so the user can install whatever operating system they want." - That would be the Surface Pro. You can turn off secure boot.

  23. Frumious Bandersnatch

    "Apple sold 22.9 million iPads"

    Wouldn't the Samsung ARM Chromebook be a better thing to compare it with? OK, maybe not, considering that it doesn't have touch, but it's more comparable in other ways, IMO, most notably in the sense of being a laptop replacement/adjunct (with keyboard) and having a more "niche" OS (if you accept that Win 8 RT is different from "proper" Win8). Does the Reg have any figures for sales of these ARM Chromebooks for comparison?

  24. Al Jones

    7" is enough!

    If I could pick up the RT equivalent of the Nexus 7, even at a slightly higher price (up to $300, say), I would almost certainly have tried one out. But the market for a $500 not-quite-Windows tablet that doesn't include the part that the ads all focus on? Fail!

  25. aqk
    Paris Hilton

    Targeting the richer folks

    I've seen quite a few ads for the Surface and Win-8 in "upscale" magazines such as The New Yorker. Usually between the pages holding ads for Lincoln cars and Hermes. Or on the back cover.

    This is how Dell started, with big glossy ads in PC magazine, when only we techies had heard of this startup company, originally called "PC's (sic) Limited".

    I can't afford a Win-8 tablet myself, but if the rich folk start buying it, the hoi-polloi, such as myself (said Austin Powers) will eventually follow.

    And the price will drop.

    Microsoft just has to keep hammering away at the affluent crowd.

    1. mmeier

      Re: Targeting the richer folks

      Actually compared to similar-equiped notebooks/netbooks/ultrabooks the current generation penables are not that costly. Sure if you compare a 300€ "bashed together by chinese pupils" notebook with a Ativ700 or Duo11 they look pricey. But the equivalents are Series-7 notebooks or Vaio Ultrabooks.

      1. Tom 35

        Re: Targeting the richer folks

        If you compare it to a stupidly over priced Sony Ultrabook... not helping.

  26. A.N.Other
    WTF?

    Just be honest and ask yourself Surface or shite pad?

    The only people that are still buying shite pads (sorry I mean ipad's) are those that know nothing at all about technology, I can not believe that the Ipad has been out so long and that the 4TH incarnation still gives the end user no way of connecting any devices to it i.e. printer etc etc via USB, I find the lack of ports on all the ipads an instant reason to not purchase one, I feel sorry for all the people that do buy them lol It is apple saying we will sell the idiots an expensive device that they can't do out with except spend more money in OUR market to buy shite apps that they cant really do anything with. IPAD = TOY and that's all versions!

    Surface RT:

    A far superior device to ANY ipad HDMI out, USB 2.0 Port, Snap on Keyboard (if you want 1), Microsoft Office etc, just the USB port alone allows you unlimited hard drive space (connect a USB Hard drive about the size of a cigarette packet) and you have no storage issues

    Surface PRO:

    Basically an awesome device, and really should not be mentioned in the same write up as the IPAD at least as the Surface PRO is in a different league altogether, it can run millions of legacy programs from multiple vendors. Full windows software (no sign of any locked apple shite ios here lol).

    Microsoft problem:

    The only problem MS has is that they messed up big style on production, the MS Surface PRO should have been made in large numbers especially the 128gig version and to not release it worldwide in 1 big ceremony was a massive mistake, I was saying this in October, by not releasing worldwide a lot of customers have been annoyed and feel like MS rates them as second class citizens behind the Americans!!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      The only people that are still buying ipads are those that know nothing at all about technology

      Well yes, since I started in the IT business (1988), Apple have been making equipment that works well for people who know nothing at all about technology - that is their Unique Selling Point, and no-one else does it quite as well.

      Since these people make up the bulk of humanity, it's no wonder the ipad dominates the tablet market. IMO it's a fair trade, it would be boring if everyone was a geek, and the the more ipads there are, the less I am pestered by people who know nothing about technology & whose Windows installation has turned into grey goo.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up

      Re: Just be honest and ask yourself Surface or shite pad?

      "The only people that are still buying shite pads..."

      Your bias aside, you are correct. If the Pro model was 200usd cheaper and could boot Debian Wheezy, I'd actually consider it.

      Don't forget the big factor though, weight! It was the sole reason I stopped using my 10yr. old WinXP laptop with the swivel touch screen as a tablet. I think you have forgotten how long Microsoft has been in the tablet business, because they have been in it longer than Android and Apple combined. The Surface is not as heavy as my old laptop, but at this form factor even ounces matter.

      Anyways, from a Debian Linux fan, I feel your post points out real benefits of the Surface. To be honest, it is the only tablet I wish I could get my OS on, the rest are severally crippled.

      1. mmeier

        Re: Just be honest and ask yourself Surface or shite pad?

        What is the problem with the Pro? Aside from half the hardware not working properly due to driver problems under Linux? It is a Win8 certified box so you can wipe it, disable UEFI and install whatever you want. And there are quite a few similar x86 tablets out that can do the same

    3. Dana W
      Joke

      Re: Just be honest and ask yourself Surface or shite pad?

      This post brought to you by the good people at Microsoft. Whoever he is.

  27. fzz

    timing

    Odd that more hasn't been written about this, but MSFT started selling the Surface RT in late October 2012, less than 2 weeks before the US presidential election. The rest of the world doesn't get to revel in the raw display of democracy energy which US political advertising has become, but for those of us living in the US, it's wise to pay as little attention as possible to TV and radio ads for at least a month before election day.

    What a great time to launch an ad campaign. I want whatever MSFT's marketing people we taking when they came up with this!

  28. Sil

    No reason for RT

    The Surface RT, which really should have been called the ARM Surface should not even exist.

    People wanting good battery life are better off with Atom based tablets, which as a big bonus is fully compatible with Windows 8, not Windows Light.

    If Microsoft wants to offer an entry model, it should offer an Atom-based Surface.

    1. mmeier

      Re: No reason for RT

      Oh soon they will. It's called the MS<<Dell Latitude 10 :) From all the tests one sweet (if costly) piece of kit with user-replaceable (and quick change!) battery and a sturdy metal body.

  29. Mikel
    Go

    The truth? You can't handle the truth.

    Microsoft is now the FIFTH largest company in IT by market cap. The entire thesis of control their engine is built on is smashed. None of the others in the top 5 rely on Windows. Apple, Google, Samsung and IBM don't even use Microsoft products internally, and don't rely on Microsoft for profits. Those dependent on Microsoft like HP and Dell seem capped at a certain diminutive size relative to Microsoft for some reason. Microsoft is no longer dominant, and they are not prepared for a world where they are not dominant. They cannot control the pace and path of progress any more. It seems the way to grow big as an IT company is to not rely on Microsoft. Whodathunkit?

    Mobile devices that don't run Microsoft ware will outnumber Microsoft Windows desktops in a month or three, and they MUST be served. That means that on the server side Microsoft operating systems and services won't do as they're designed to leverage dominance and encourage dependence on IE and Windows. Likewise Windows Line Of Business (LOB) apps need to be rejiggered to be browser-based and platform-independent because a Windows-only client app just won't do any more as we've gone mobile without Microsoft. The protestations of junior .NET junkies will be beat down by CIOs and CEOs with iPads and Android tabs, iPhones and Android phones who needs must get their work done on the go, so shut up and deliver what is required or put in your notice.

    This one is all over but the crying.

    1. mmeier

      Re: The truth? You can't handle the truth.

      Strange - Apache and JBOSS run just fine on Windows Servers. Actually with better performance under load than they do with Linux. Granted, Solaris is even better. And mobile devices do not care what OS delivers the web page.

      Java Applications and Applets actually run better under Windows (and MacOS) than under iOS or Android. Actually - they do not run under the latter two AT ALL. Add in some other benefits and for companies the Windows / MacOS route is actually the smarter choice for mobile devices. Local printing is just one element - try that with iOS/Android. With Windows - just buy a mobile printer. Same for scanning solutions and so on.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The truth? You can't handle the truth.

        "Strange - Apache and JBOSS run just fine on Windows Servers. Actually with better performance under load than they do with Linux" - yes most historical benchmarks show Windows Server outperforming the shipping version of Linux that was available at launch for common tasks like webserving, databases, fileserving (inc NFS!), java engine, etc.

        With Server 2012 the gap is larger than it has ever been, and the current fastest NFS server in the world is on Windows server 2012, and all the TPC-E top performance benchmarks are on Windows Server.

  30. Isisst
    Stop

    I actually bought a Surface RT with my own money and it's quite good

    This may seem weird to some but the RT works for me. I don't want a Pro for now, the battery life is too short and at that price point I'd rather spend the money on a better laptop. If Pro 2 happens and has double the battery life then it should be a viable product, although quite a few of the things I need to do with the full OS would in any case drain a tablet's battery in no time even assuming it had sufficient graphics power.

    That Microsoft seem to have fouled up the whole marketing and pricing strategy is a bit sad as the gadget is good. The RT could be better in quite a few ways, but as a daily data creation tool it does the job I need NOW better than my recently eBay'ed iPad.

    And that is the fundamental point.

    Where it scores?

    1. Multi-user access, my remaining teenager stopped using the iPad once he found out about that, his stuff and my stuff both stay private. Apple really don't get that, or their execs are so loaded they assume that every family has an iPad each!

    2. OneNote syncs seamlessly between Surface, my phone and PC. My fundamental working need met.

    3. pen/finger input, converts my appalling handwriting into clear text with near miraculous accuracy (found a review that mentions that anywhere?) making it a viable note taking tool without a keyboard (the touch cover is also fine by the way, although your wouldn't want to write a novel on it).

    4. it can read files off my PC's, network, or remote ftp.

    5. Micro SD card slot, nuff said.

    6. I can just plug in my DSLR and view the RAW format files direct from the card (try doing that with an iPad, I thought the ludicrously priced and misleadingly named Camera Connection kit would do that, but it didn't even come close).

    7. It tethers just fine once my phone's hotspot is turned on, why have a 3G card in your tablet and pay for data on your phone?

    8. Built-in RDP client.

    Cons?

    1. Mail app is OK for reading and replying but rubbish for mail management, but I do that in Outlook on the laptop so not a big issue.

    2.; it's a bit slow sometimes.

    3. the app store is missing some key apps, but as RT has a full blown flash enabled web browser that isn't much of a problem, and as so many apps are complete and utter rubbish (I'm being polite here) I really don't buy the whole inferior app ecosystem argument. Most apps are just a workaround for the current power/battery life limitations anyway.

    4. the speaker is too quiet

    1. mmeier

      Re: I actually bought a Surface RT with my own money and it's quite good

      If you like the RT take a look at the Atom based tablet pc. Similar weight, good endurance (6-11h depeding on model and use) and a lot of units out so the price spectrum is covered from Acers "touch only" at 450€ all the way to TPT2 and Dell Latitude 10 with all the bells/whistles at 800€ and a lot in between

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