Christian footie match ends in almighty brawl Five footballers from the West Midlands Christian League are heading for some serious time in the sin bin after a match last weekend degenerated into a "brutal brawl". Common Ground United and Zion Athletic met on Saturday in West Bromwich to engage in what was supposed to be "friendly competition whilst upholding Christian …
You mean like Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Enver Hoxha and the builders of the Berlin Wall?
Perhaps. Those people make the Crusades and the Inquisition look like a game of slaps.
Then you've got all those who might not be declared atheists, but behave as if there is no God to judge them. Those might be in Church one day and running the crusades the next, or declaring that we really do need to invade Iraq to look for WMDs, or suggesting that really, the widows and orphans should have made better investment choices if they really wanted proper healthcare.
"You mean like Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Enver Hoxha and the builders of the Berlin Wall?"
I notice Adolf Hitler is conspicuously missing from your list -- wonder why?
Also you forgot to mention the top ten biggest philanthropists in history, and whether they were atheists or not -- wonder why?
"Well, Adolph was not only a Christian, he was Catholic to boot! They really don't like to be reminded of this."
He was born and raised Catholic, but not a practising one, nor claimed to be. Big difference. In fact he pretty much deliberately twisted and corrupted Christian beliefs.
Plenty of practising Catholics have been mass-murdering fuck-heads too, but I don't think it's at all logical or very viable to tease Catholics with "Hitler was Catholic [by accident of birth] too".
If you really want to insult other people's personal beliefs, there's plenty of better ammunition than that to choose from.
..."behave as if there is no God to judge them"
I behave as if there's no God to judge me. Because there isn't.
So you are only prevented from the litany of crimes you are itching to commit, because you are worried that an imaginary sky fairy is going to send you to his evil ex angel when the electrons quit running around those cells in your head? Moron.
> That'd be irrationally held convictions, mild insanity, hostility toward reason, a bit of sexual repression, and a lot of violence, then.
Is it logically possible for an atheist to hold moral convictions? Surely its all just pragmatism or its irrational?
Mild insanity? Now that's just name calling!
Hostility to reason? Rubbish. Christians merely suggest that we don't know everything and we may have made mistakes in some things.
Sexual repression? Have you read the NT? You do know that Paul says that you you must not deprive your spouse of sex, except for important reasons and only if it is only for a short amount of time, right?
Love of violence? If someone says, "I support Liverpool," while wearing Man U colours and cheering for Man U against Liverpool, is he a Liverpool supporter?
I am an atheist, yet I have moral convictions. Just because I don't believe in the existence of some supreme being who created everything (I believe something exploded billions of years ago and everything since is a direct result of that) doesn't mean I don't have moral values and try to be the best person I can.
How on earth in a city the size of Birmingham can you not find enough christians who want to play for a christian team and have to take in non christians....
This is pathetic, and really sets a great standard where christian football teams are worst behaved than the beer swilling pub team friends.
"Because Christianity in the UK is about as relevant as Netscape Navigator."
Nah: Like it and agree with it or not, but Christianity is enormously relevant, still.
Look at where the majority of people celebrate major points in life: Birth, Marriage, Death.
Look at what days the majority of people get given as holidays.
Remember what some of the religiously inspired comments you've uttered after car crashes and other major shocks, that are so drilled in as to have become instinctual.
Examine the moral code that is taught to us in schools and at home.
Christian *dogma* might be irrelevant in our society and ignored by most of us, but the Christianity is still massively influential in our lives, albeit in a behind-the-scenes kind of way.
Christianity shaped our culture for a very long time and so it should be no surprise that we still have cultural traditions which have a Christian history. That doesn't mean Christianity is still relevant to most in the UK.
Many people let off fireworks on the 5th of November but have no particular hatred for Catholics or strong love of the monarchy. Just as many people exchange gifts on the 25th of December but care little about the birth of some middle eastern Jew, 2000 years ago.
If you could move the entire Easter holiday to the start of July you'd get complaints about ruining people's plans, complaints about breaking with hundreds of years of tradition. You wouldn't get many complaints about the holiday no longer being a celebration of Jesus' resurrection. You'd probably get quite a few people pleased that they had more time off during the summer.
A lot of your points are just untrue though.
Most people in the UK are neither christened or baptised. Most people have secular marriages.
Just because somebody says "God damn" does not mean they believe in a deity and are requesting it's wrath be brought down upon somebody.
The moral code that we're taught in schools is not specifically Christian (as evidenced by all those non Christian countries throughout the world that don't advocate theft, rape and murder to their populations).
I'm not sure what you're getting at. It makes a chucklesome story to think that a bunch of Churchy limp wristed types got into a punch up but the likelihood is it wasn't some bunch of Churchy limp wristed types.
Unless they've changed things since I played in a similar team 20 odd years ago of course.
>likelihood is it wasn't some bunch of Churchy limp wristed types.
Why "Churchy"? All football players are limp wristed types. First thing they do when the turn pro is make up some silly dance they have to go through when they score a goal, a sort of pre-courtship ritual as an invitation for their teammates to jump on and kiss them and then each other.
All team sports, no matter how gentle the rule-makers want them to be, break down into individual formalised conflicts between opponents. If the game is to be taken seriously then you have to intend to defeat your opponent and delight in your success.
It follows then that it is contradictary (and even a nonsense) to expect a game of football to be played in the 'Christian Spirit'.
What's so 'unchristian' about wanting to win? You can be competitive and want to win but do so with grace, a degree of humility and without a 'win at all costs' mentality - that I believe commands respect from everyone, whether you hold faith or not.
You've automatically assumed that players can't engage in sporting combat without conflict, which is just nonsense.
I agree, nothing 'Unchristian' in principle about wanting to win. I had assumed, though, that one's responsibility for sending 11+ opponents home unhappy might not fit too well.
However, I forgot that it was the West Midlands Christian League, so even there I might have to concede.
I do think, though, that they should stay well away from general Sunday Leagues - playing with grace and humility there would just get them trampled on.
@JustaKOS - I've played and managed in both a Christian Football League (i.e. against other churches) and also Sunday League football. The difference is one of attitude and self-control, it's not at all about letting yourself get 'trampled on'.
It's concerned with playing the game fairly, justly and not seeking to win by hoodwink, deception or by causing deliberate physical / emotional damage to your opponents. You can still play hard, you can still shout at people, you can still moan at the ref, but do so without offence or dissent. Self-control in the heat of battle - it's not easy, but it's what playing in a 'Christian spirit' is really all about. Wouldn't football be great if everyone played like this? Hard but fair.
Clearly these guys involved in the brawl have got a little way to go yet...*ahem*
Make a nasty tweet, get a visit from the Old Bill. Beat seven shades out of another player at a football match, no action taken, other than by the league. See also: Rugby.
I'm not saying the rozzers should take a look at this - these things are going to happen in a physical sport - but the double standards are appalling.
I think that would descend into a farce. Is a high tackle in rugby assault? In football, mistimed tackles happen all the time (ok, so it's often an excuse, but not always) - would that constitute assault. A wildly swung hockey stick? A broken nose from a thrown basketball?
Way, way too many grey areas there, IMO.
Okay, fair point - it's hard to prove intent and you wouldn't want the majority living in fear of legal action if they made a sporting error - that is part of the game and you accept it when you sign up.
Guess some people are just dick-heads and we have to live with it. Just seems a bit lame.
Mind you a punch is pretty clear cut and I struggle to see that it should ever be acceptable.
It came to pass that a penalty was awarded.
And much weeping and wailing was heard, for there was surely no contact and he to which it was awarded was most surely offside, it being the second phase of play.
And a voice did speak out: "Ref? Are you fucking blind or what?"
And many were sore vexed by this.
And the sons of Common did gird themselves and mightly smite those of Zion.
And he that was of Zion didst smite those of Common.
And a mighty whistle sounded as the bastard of blackness got stuck into the midst of the fray.
And another voice said: "Let he that is without sin cast the first stone." and many took up rocks, chairs and the excrement of dog and didst hurl them most fearsomely.
(Referees 6:12)
It took place in West Bromwich?
Please, correct me, as I do not have access to proper sources right now, but isn´t West Bromwich the place where Hellboy was summoned to this world as first phase of Nazi project Ragnarok?
No wonder peace, forgivenes and all encompassing love does not abound there!
I wonder why he threw some at these players http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNJRPOltifI
All religions (belief systems that are created by someone else), monotheistic, polytheistic, or atheistic, are control mechanisms for the masses, designed to keep us confused, separated, and wasting our resources.
Those who either subscribe to their comforts or use them to control are alien to humanity. Let us remove this plague from our minds.
(Cue atheists saying they have no religion on 3, 2, 1)
"(Cue atheists saying they have no religion on 3, 2, 1)" Actually we have no god, thats the strict definition of the term, there are in fact a couple of atheistic religions, ie: that is religions that do not worship a god, but atheism itself is not a religion. You can be atheist and have a religion, or be atheist and not have a religion, the same as you can be a believer and not have a religion (thats deist by the way) or vice versa.
Atheist/theist describes the position of believing or not believing in a god, religious/irreligious describes the position of belonging or not belonging to a religion. Any other questions?
"Atheist/theist describes the position of believing or not believing in a god, religious/irreligious describes the position of belonging or not belonging to a religion. Any other questions?"
To my mind, strict Atheism is pretty much a religious belief until itself, because it infers the strict non-belief in god(s). In my mind, that's an act of faith itself.
Whereas to be Agnostic is to be open to new evidence, and more rational, in my opinion.
ie: If god drops down on a pillar of flame and smites a few thousand witnesses, a witnessing Agnostic is going to so "Oh... ok... actually, there is a god", whereas a strict Atheist is going to employ exactly the kind of torturous circular logic and perception bias that strictly religious people employ, in order to claim that there really wasn't a god there at all, and that it was a trick of the light/whatever.
and claim that "an influx of non-Christians into teams may be to blame". » Ah, now I understand what must have lain behind the most recent Foxconn brouhaha. Presumably that unfortunate «influx» numbered in the thousands....
Henri
Dear Lord,
You have blessed us with many gifts and talents. We thank you especially to the ability to participate in sport today. Help us to play in a Christ-like manner. Help us to play in a way that fosters goodwill and teamwork. Help us to play to the best of our abilities. Win or lose, we hope to have fun, make friends, and celebrate life. Amen.
Make both teams recite that before every game, on the field, before their opponent. Especially if their opponents do a haka...
(That is the Catholic School Sports Prayer in the states, said before any practice or game)
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