Sigh
That is all.
Microsoft has predicted that Windows 8 and Windows RT will usher in a new era of touch-based computing, but if leaked pricing from Asus is anything to go by, customers will have to pay a pretty penny to share in Redmond's vision. Although PC makers have been busy readying a range of tablets and laptops with touchscreens in …
Why Ballmer...you didn't have to get me anything for XMas!
For those of us that HATE the metrosexual UI abortion that is Win 8 this couldn't be better news, with prices THAT stupid these things will go over about as well as a chili fart in an elevator. As a plus in 6-8 months you'll see these things on Woot! for $99 each when the OEMs dump like HP did the touchpad and maybe...just maybe...the stockholders will realize what Forbes and many of us have been saying for awhile, Ballmer is a pathetic CEO and needs to go.
The hilarious part is MSFT is gonna be selling Win 8 pro downloads at just $40 USD so if one truly wanted metrosexual they could buy one of those nice AMD quad laptops and a copy of Win 8 and STILL end up more than $200 less than what these are going for! I'm gonna buy my $40 copy, it'll go next to Vista in the "wall of shame'
$600 for $300 specs?
Nobody's going to pay that kind of price for it!
The WinRT tabs are going to be competing with the iPad, and need to be about the same price as the iPad. The full Win8 tablets need to be in the "sweet spot", not above it, as well.
They're crazy if they think it'll sell at prices like that.
Absolutely! Can anybody explain to me why an $800 device (including keyboard) with Windows RT would be better than the latest incarnation of the Asus Transformer, with its much higher resolution (1920x1200) and roughly the same price point down here (just shy of 700 euro)?
OK it has a version of office. Big deal!
If you look at Asus' own current line-up, a TF700 with the 1.6 GHz T3 and 32 GB storage lists for $499 with $150 for the dock. On Amazon or Newegg, they can be had for $488. The screen on the TF700 is a 1920x1200 Super IPS (increased brightness) which looks f-ing amazing.
Something is driving up the cost if Asus is selling lower spec for more money. Granted, the Tegra 3 could be a newer model (but the TF700 is using the current top of the line) and it will have more RAM. Storage appears to be the same as the current crop of Asus Android tablets starting at 32 GB.
Vendors have indicated that MS is charging about $85 for a Windows RT license, which would account for the higher price. except you are still giving up the excellent screen on the TF700. So it is not unreasonable to at least let them share the blame.
............people are ignoring in their eagerness to lay all the blame (if these leaks are connected to reality) on Redmond and their license fee. In their desire to howl that it is all MS' fault and (apparently) excuse the OEMs for refusing to wake up and smell the coffee as far as pricing is concerned they are conveniently "forgetting" what the OEMs did when the first Android tablets were launched. There is of course no license fee attached to Google's offering - that did not stop the OEMs charging the most horrendous prices for those tablets. Just to give two examples: Have we forgotten what HTC tried to charge for the "Flyer" or what Samsung wanted for its first 7 incher? They wanted way more than Apple were charging then for the iPad FFS! The fact of the matter is when it comes to totally unrealistic pricing the OEMs need no help from Redmond, they have a form-sheet a mile long. The Window's license is not any explanation or excuse for their behaviour - they are perfectly capable of grotesquely overcharging whether they are paying for a license or not. The very slow start that the Android tablets had the first year or so after launch was directly due IMHO to the braindead refusal of the OEMs to recognise that they simply cannot get away with these kinds of prices. One can certainly argue that MS should reduce its license fee (and I would not disagree with that for one moment) however, even if they did I fear that based on past form the OEMs would at the outset simply pocket the difference themselves.
> grotesquely overcharging whether they are paying for a license or not
You seem to have a disjoint from reality. OEMs are not there to promote one OS or another, they exist to make a _profit_.
Pricing is primarily based on cost, there are fixed costs (factory, staff, etc) and variable costs (components, outwork), development costs and setup costs. A new product has a cost to develop it to the point where it may become manufactured, this has to be recovered over some number of manufactured units.
Because the whole 'Windows tablets' market will be split over several OEMs (including Microsoft), and over several models the initial manufacturing runs of each model will be relatively small (also to reduce failure risk). Development and setup costs will be spread over few units, component and outwork costs will be high because of small batches being purchased. High costs -> high price.
Also they _do_ have to factor in $75-100 for licence. They also have to buy these in bulk and are unlikely to get a refund if they don't use them up. There is also marketing costs, retail margins, and a factor to cover returns and warranty costs.
What do you want? companies to sell stuff at a loss so that they go broke?
This also happened in the early days of Android: high development cost, small production runs, high component costs, high costs -> high prices. Now these costs have reduced, so have prices.
Apple, on the other hand, has high market share, small numbers of models, large production runs, reduced component costs (due to large batch orders) and lower risk because they can more accurately predict demand.
......see that I did not say that they didn't have to factor in such issues. I simply pointed out that even when they don't (and their commercial challenges otherwise are pretty much identical whether they are producing Android tablets or Windows tablets) have to pay a license fee they still overcharge at the outset. The practical reality is that they are fully capable of mispricing with or without Redmond's help. Furthermore, they as producers do have (one would have thought) an objective interest in contributing to growing a market if they wish to sell devices. That applies whether we are talking Android or Windows. They utterly refused to accept lower margins or even a certain degree of "loss leader" pricing when Android* for tablets first came out with the result that the Android os was to all practical intents and purposes crippled commercially for the first year or so after launch. If they want to produce and sell kit, yes they do have to make a contribution themselves - either that or they should get out of the game.
*Google after all had borne all the costs of developing the os and thereby made their contribution, the OEMs, to all practical intents and purposes, simply said "thank you very much" and then refused to make any contribution themselves in terms of the prices they introduced the Android tablets to the market at.
> They utterly refused to accept lower margins or even a certain degree of "loss leader" pricing
If you think they are overpriced then don't buy them.
You just seem to want stuff to be given to you cheaply.
> (and their commercial challenges otherwise are pretty much identical whether they are producing Android tablets or Windows tablets)
Not true at all.
No one is dictating what components to use when they make Android tablets. Having to factor in $75-100 means that that can only make top of the market models.
> They utterly refused to accept lower margins or even a certain degree of "loss leader" pricing when Android* for tablets first came out with the result that the Android os was to all practical intents and purposes crippled commercially for the first year or so after launch.
You don't seem to understand what 'crippled commercially' means. It is when you _can't_ make a profit. And yet you complain that they should have run at a loss.
While Microsoft could sell XBox at a loss by subsidising it with Windows and Office sales, and hopefully making it up with games (though it is still billions in the red), what point does Dell or ASUS have to subsidise their products ? What services can they sell to make up ?
You are just whining because you can't afford shiny stuff.
A combination of bad manners and guesswork - you are a treat to debate with. Nothing about either of my posts involved that kind of tone. Moreover your attempt to use the kind of debating technique that goes down well in the saloon bar of some of our less salubrious watering holes utterly fails here. Yes, I can afford to drop a grand or so on a piece of kit if I really want it, so fucking what? What has that got to do with the issues here? We are not debating my personal buying capacity/decisions or yours - yet all the same you chose to personalise this exchange. I was discussing the behaviour of the OEMs in relation to the market they are in and the production and sale challenges they have to tackle in the mass market. That has bugger all to do with what I personally can afford or not.
.......the "sweaty chair throwing maniac" was signalling in his recent interview when he talked about the range of the sweet spot in the modern market being $300 - $800 - he could scarcely have been more explicit. However, if the news in the article is true it would appear that some of the OEMs have not quite understood that, at least with Windows RT, we are indeed referring to what El Reg likes to call "fondle slabs" and "shinies" as far as the market is concerned. Unless they understand that a major part of the domestic retail market is indeed about "shiny stuff" and price accordingly they are going to do very poorly indeed. The x86 market which is much more heavily influenced by what enterprise may (or may not) be willing to pay may very well sustain kit at the upper end of that price range or even above if it is regard as of premier quality. However, any OEM who thinks that they can get away with entry prices of the kind signalled in this article is in orbit around a very different planet from the rest of us.
> the sweet spot in the modern market being $300 - $800
That is _not_ what he said:
"If you look at the bulk of the PC market," he said, "it would run between, say, probably $300 to about $700 or $800. That's the sweet spot."
The 'that' refers to "about $700 or $800" being the sweet spot. That is what buyers will pay while manufacturers and retailers can actually make a profit.
"$300 - $800" is not a 'spot', it is the complete range. $300 is nowhere near 'sweet' for Ballmer, the OEMs, or retailers.
Then they are dead in the water because as a retailer in a little PC shop in a college town i can tell you, from both my own exp as well as talking to fellow retailers in the state capital that $800 is NOT the "sweet spot" its between $450-$550 with of course lower priced units selling more.
$800 USD may have been the sweet spot before the housing market bubble burst but in case Ballmer didn't get the memo the economy is lousy and people by and large aren't gonna pay that high a price, not when they can get a transformer that doubles as a laptop for less than $530 and I can sell them quad laptops for $500 and still make a profit.
The problem is, if the numbers are to be believed, MSFT is charging $75 a copy for an OS that needs the tablets to be NO MORE than $200-$350 to compete with the Kindle and iShiny. when you figure in cost of manufacture and comopnents and shipping, not to mention a few bucks for the OEMs to make it worth doing? Its priced right out of the ballpark.
This is gonna be the Touchpad all over again, priced too high for the market. I can only hope Asus is smart enough to only make a few of these so they don't take a bath on them as HP did on the touchpad because at these prices they are DOA.
"Sadly, MS get tarred by association", "It's nothing to do with MS, that's Asus taking the piss. "
Do you think that maybe the minimum hardware requirements for Win8 vs Android/iOS might have something to do with it? Just possibly?
If Asus could make and sell them cheaper then surely they would, no?
No, I'm sure you are right, Asus is just "taking the piss" because that's what multinational CE manufacturers do for shits and giggles, innit?
The market that isn't currently serviced by Android and iOS.
We've been looking for Windows or Linux based tablets for a while now. The big sticking points on iOS and Android, for us, is the lack of Java. iOS doesn't support it and Android has its own Dalvik, which is a subset and doesn't support the bits we need.
The prices don't seem too bad. The RT machine is priced to be the same as an "equivalent" iPad (without Dock). The current generation of Windows 7 tablets are either appauling Atom based devices for 700€ or Core i based devices for over 1200€.
We managed to get a deal on Samsung Series 7 slates (Core i5, 2GB RAM) for well under a grand.
That said, I'll be sticking with my desktop and dual monitors...
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they never learn, never. They still haven't grokked what cult is about, and how to, pardon me, cultivate it (thanks God they haven't) and still haven't figured out what it takes to get a bestseller for the rest of us, who don't give a flying monkey about "cool".
And it appears MS still want to believe folks can't wait to splash 1,000 usd to get their dirty fingers on MS Office via a 10.1 inch screen, rotfl.
But have they made a cent? We honestly don't know because we can't see the books to see whether their "profits" account for the over 2 billion they spent on RRoD warranty, nor do we know if the billion plus spent on R&D for the XBox 1 or the billion plus in R&D for X360 is included.
Fanboy-wise, I can not take any bets. There are plenty of serious MS-Fanboys; if only potential ones. Alas, there wasn't much yet to vouch for and pull out a hefty cheque. Though , noticing what rather crappy stuff we've seen over the years (with some intermezzi of useful things), and still seeing everyone chasing any new vista of the company, I can see a different scenario, once they come up with 'cool' stuff. Don't forget the enterprise customers: reluctant to finance iPads for lack of compatibility, I would not exclude the enterprise of tomorrow being prepared to pay serious money to "finally have Excel" on a tablet. The real Excel, I mean, and the real PowerPoint, and the real Word. Nevermind the costs.
Why should the same people who gladly pay for a feature-rich Exchange (and mostly the upkeep of this dog to maintain), not be willing to fork out equally serious money for a "standard" tablet?
Paris, because she can afford one, too.
depends what you use Excel for. Some people use it for stock taking, where being to hold the device in one hand would be handy. I even know one bloke who uses it to control a robot spray arm through VB. It can be quite versatile software, so I imagine that people will use it in varied ways.
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It also depends on the tablet. If you take the top of the line model that was in the article then it has a full HD screen. Assuming that the screen is pin sharp you should be able use excel with no probolem.
When RDP'ing to my desktop using my infinity O can use Excel just fine.
A bloke who does WHAT!!?
Now that is truly the definition of insane, almost anything else would have been better and safer.
I'm really hoping that was a slight exaggeration and he's actually merely using Excel to auto-generate the g-code (or whatever program the robot runs on), but even so...
I read somewhere that one of these Swiss Check-In Peg-Out clincs have the users click on a button in an Access application which then gives them that special injection.
Then Microsoft Surface is a game changer. It gives a whole new meaning to suicide with tablets....
I was waiting for Windows 8 to see if the tablet prices will go down, and maybe contemplating a Windows 8 (RT) tablet. Oh noes, I won't pay more for Windows though. It seems that the Transformer Infinity will be my next tablet, if no one comes with a 12" tablet reasonably priced.
Microsoft should understand that if they want to compete in tablets, they are the underdog, and they have nothing that would entice me to switch from Android except price.
I know, but in my experience won't happen immediately after launch. I have a feeling I WILL get a Windows 8 tablet, just not this year. I missed the Touchpad firesale, but I just got a BlackBerry Playbook 32GB for $120. I would not have paid full price on it, but at that price I found it very attractive.
"None of these devices are tablets."
At least two of them are... with optional docks. What the other one is meant to be seems to be something none of us are entirely sure about.. perhaps the person on the other side of the lid can see where the mines are..... who knows.
"They're more powerful ultrabooks with touchscreens."
Yeah - whatever - or keyboards with grubby televisions on. Apart from the fact that in a nit-picky sense one of them can't be an Ultrabook (in the Intel sense) it's really just marketing and/or personal point of view. If they float your boat, then it doesn't really matter what they're called IMO.
Why would I want to pay for two 1920x1080 panels when I can only use one at any one time?
Also I had a chance to play with a Samsung 10.1" Windows RT tablet and it's too big. The stupid 16:9 aspect makes the tablet far too wide to hold comfortably in one hand when using landscape and it's too tall in portrait mode.
Apart from jokes about 'Tai Chi' and martial arts, note that it says " ... easy to share files between two users".
I think the selling point is that when you are using it as a laptop, your Tai Chi partner can sit on the other side of the desk and use the tablet screen. With headphones, you can play independent videos or perhaps play Battleships, etc. (I'm using my imagination here and it's getting weird.)
Yeah, in education or client presentations would seem to be areas where this might be used. It does seem rather a waste of an IPS panel for anything else, though I imagine it could be made to ape that Ambi-light trickery that Phillips TVs have.
I prefer the look the Lenovo solution - have a conventional-looking laptop, but with hinges that allow the screen to be facing up whilst the keyboard faces down (presumably with a mechanism to disable the keyboard whilst it is in this position)
Is Balmer married? What about Meg Whitman? They'd make a nice couple.
As to Asus vs MS, it actually doesn't matter. Asus wouldn't be pricing their tablets that way if MS price (which I'm sure they're aware of) wasn't in the ballpark. Conversely, MS wouldn't significantly underprice the OEMs they hope to license Win8 to. At best, Microsoft tablet will be $100 cheaper. Stick a fork in it boys, Windows 8 on tablets is done.
...I knew it, I totally knew it - his comments were way off the chart for months now - and here is the proof, the Ballmerian insanity in its full extent.
Buhbye, you and your golden boys, no one will miss you when you get booted after W8 royally flopped - finally MS will have a chance to innovate again instead of being the slow-moving, forever 'mee-too' monster.
Actually "the angry fat chair-throwin beancounter" pegged “sweet spot” prices at $300 to $800 in that interview recently did he not? I'd say that Asus' prices here (if this leak is genuine) don't exactly fall within that, hmm?
Apple has the cool factor... Irrespective of what the machine does, the current tablet punter has to be wooed... And even as a Microsoft advocate, I'd buy an iPad over a windows 8 tablet if they are the same cost... (oddly my iPhone is being replaced with a win 8 phone!)
I really wanted the win 8 tab to revolutionise abd shake up tablet computing, but I feel as though it's going to be a bit of a damp squip...
...I think I can. MS fought hard to keep their super secret patent shakedown agreements out of the public record in recent court cases... harder than if they just wanted the numbers kept secret, redacting would achieve that.
I've suggested many times those deals oblige various OEMs to ship Microsoft product, be it WP7, WP8 or Win8. Obliged to ship if they want to keep the Android tax affordable... but apparently also free to price to *not sell* ;)
There is indeed piss taking going on but it's MS getting wet.
I'm clearly not the only one now thinking that the launch of Windows 8 will be the disaster that many thought it would be, the number of people on here saying "Ballmer/Microsoft are smoking crack" is quite high. Its the hardwate OEM's and PC industry I really feel sorry for as a great many people depend on Microsoft for Windows to be the draw that it is and MS are just gambling with their futures. They still seem to be living in a world where Windows leads the industry. Granted, Windows 7 was very good, but 8 needs all this kit just to be fully usable. Without it, it does kind of work but not as well as windows 7. On a desktop, my days are filled with the joy of trying to click the corner top right on screen 1 to shut down the computer only to scroll into the top-left corner of screen 2, or trying to avoid the many tablet optimised default apps which exist along with their desktop counterparts. That they are forcing this upon us all (even business) simply to make deva more likely to develop for the platform smacks of desperation. Why does Metro need to be on a server exactly? Most days I just boot into Mountain Lion because at least that integrates properly with all my other devices and I cloud etc. And it doesn't much about with the desktop in ways I can't just opt not to use.
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Lets examine:
1. A brand that simply isn't cool - Microsoft. It never has been cool. Rule out those who purchase based on coolness.
2. An unquantified amount of applications on launch. Given that Apple & Android have a gazillion apps to please even the most discerning punter and that Amazon have their *cough* cash register tablet - where does that leave Microsofts App offerings?
3. An identity crisis - is it a netbook, is it a tablet?
4. A hefty price tag. Those that can afford this price will go iPad. Those that can't, will go Android - and both choices, now we have the likes of the Nexus 7 and the new Kindle Fire - are excellent.
5. A confusing OS choice - once again, microsoft 'just haven't got it' - not one OS for the tablet device, but rather, two. So, as well as a fragmented market due to a plethora of devices that will be running windows 8, we also have different flavours of windows 8 = consumer confusion.
Ultimately, apps and price will determine the fate of windows 8 tablets, for it's certain they'll be throwing massive amounts of marketing muscle at this, not to mention the massive global chain of retailers praying for a boost to lagging sales.
These units are really going up against laptops - not directly against ipads, nexus etc.. Even the lower priced unit has a full keyboard and windowed OS so is still probably going up against laptops more than directly against tablets. If you stripped out the keyboard etc on the lower end model, then you start to get the costs down to compete with the ipad. however, that doesn't look like the aim with this particular range of units.
I would see these as a replacement for my laptop, with the added bonus that i can detach the keyboard and use it as a tablet, removing the need to fork out an extra £400 for a separate ipad, nexus etc. These devices are aimed as business users, where a tablet on its own is no use - you need a laptop, with a windowed OS for any serious work, cutting and pasting between multiple applications.
I used an HP TC4400 tablet for years - it was great - docked it was a full desktop PC (with dual monitors), un-docked, it was a small laptop, then folded into tablet mode, it was great for taking handwritten notes, noting down information while walking about or reading documents on the train or other locations where i didn't have a full table to use it in laptop mode. It was only the weight and lack of support for full touch in the OS that prevented it being an ipad-like tablet - these look to address those issues. I had a TC1100 for a while - too underpowered - shame they never took that form factor further.
you want to stop freetards running linux on them and showing you up and think UEFI wont work forever?
Price them too high. That'll show them!
So now we have an expensive tablet that will never be cool and, after a few weeks in the hands of company accountants who discover that the office package wont run their old stuff properly...
I'll write the same thing that I wrote about HP's WebOS, what I wrote didn't matter to HP, but in the end they did open source the OS. So I am fine with the end result.
What have made Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office the 2 most used products in the digital world is not the quality of the product nor the stability of them. Heck, Microsoft Windows have been known for it crashes and their infamous BSOD, yet it was still used everywhere and was -still is- with a large slice of the market. The reason for this was: piracy.
Piracy is what made both Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office reach where they have reached now. If people had to pay for either, then I honestly doubt that either would have reached this market share. More importantly, piracy have helped sell both products. Since everyone was using them, people tended to ask for them and buy them when buying a new PC. Microsoft might have lost money when people pirated their products, but they gain far more when their products became the standard in each office, class and home.
Currently Apple doesn't pay for the software since they make the device and software (which is based on *BSD). If people are paying for the pre-installed OS, then Apple is keeping its mouth shut about the financials, or at the very least the price is too small to matter. Android also doesn't cost the OEMs anything, and the users can upgrade for free (when the OEM decide that they are worthy of the upgrade).
Right now Microsoft Windows have no market share in the tablet, so I believe that Microsoft should concentrate more on taking a piece of the market share instead of making profit. I even recall reading an article which said that even if Windows 8 on the phone should tank, it won't effect Microsoft's bottom line. If this is true, then embrace piracy legitimate sibling: free software.
The free software doesn't need to include Office, just Windows RT. And it doesn't need to be indefinite, just for the first 3 to 6 months, after which your product would have established itself and is ready to depend on word-of-mouth to spread itself. Although it would help if you reduce the price of Office during that period as well.
sorry for the long post, but this is my thoughts regarding Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office current success: it was piracy that made it spread, not the quality of the product!
>most have been tight-lipped about pricing<
Heh, now we know why.
>Windows tablets will be hot sellers because you can run Microsoft Office on them<
So no worries from the anti competition agencies then? Also the RT versions don't include Outlook so might as well use QuickOffice (that Google just bought), works across ios and android, keeps formatting, opens and saves as Office 2003 thru' 2010, I use it on a daily basis on my iPad.
As for the full windows tabs I think people were expecting about $1000, but on Intel i7 chips, not Atoms, I know nothing about Atoms, will they run Photoshop CS6 fast?Civ5? If not, then pointless - I do recall Archos releasing a Windows tab a few years ago running Atom, it could barely run Windows Starter, and yea, I'm sure they're better now, but Intel i7 better?
Sorry Tony but Atom runs worse than pretty much any chip out there, AMD's low end E350s curbstomp it and that's the chip they put in $300 netbooks, so you can imagine how weak this chip is.
Which is why I'm sitting here literally gobsmacked..an Atom? On a system THAT high? Are they insane? You can get an AMD quad or Intel i3 laptop for less than half that that would just beat the living heck out of that chip!
Anybody who pays THAT much for an Atom system should at least get a free CAT scan, just as a public service to make sure they don't have a tumor or brain injury!
Don't see why, it's just JPEG artifacting on the Reg version. If you look at the original at the link
http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/story/70/00/004378/asusroadmap-watermarked.jpg
it looks like a legit screenshot of a PowerPoint slide, amusing spelling correction squiggles n all.
Presumably ZDNet did edit the slide to stick their watermark in there.
67+ comments plus the obligatory MS bashing about what may I ask?
A bit of possibly, maybe, not confirmed, hearsay.
Calm down and wait till we get some actual information, specs and pricing. It's only just over a month till we know. Then we can discuss reality, not speculative, "Psst, someone has heard that someone else may have seen............." schoolyard whispers.
One hard sell vs the iPad and does it have the retina screen and 'hearts and minds' of the consumer? It's almost got to the point where iPad is synonymous with tablet computer as Hoover is with vacuum cleaner. 70% of the market says it all really and the other 30% are mostly cheaper but equally (or more) locked in tablets from Amazon.
These idiots are poised to make the same stupid mistake that prevented the original Microsoft Tablet from selling in any real quantities. No one is going to overpay for a Microsoft product, not the least of which is a Tablet. Android vendors already failed at this strategy and you see how well that has worked for them (NOT). This is even more hilarious if the rumors are true and Apple is readying an iPad mini with the same functionality and retina display as the iPad. Watch as people stand in line to buy the iPad mini while these Windows 8 and RT tablets gather dust on shelves until someone wises up and lowers the price to what consumers in THIS economy are willing to pay.
if the rumors are true and Apple is readying an iPad mini with the same functionality and retina display as the iPad. Watch as people stand in line to buy the iPad mini
If the same reports and rumours are to be believed the iPad Mini will not have a Retina display. Apple will be saving that for when version 2 comes out......
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Obviously, if you can't afford a Windows tablet you can always go down market and just get an iPad instead.
Everyone knows you get what you pay for.
<-- I'm off to Poundland to buy an HDMI cable because I can't afford a £20 one from Curry's that would be so much better...
I live in Minneapolis near the Mall of America, where Microsoft has a beautiful big store directly across the aisle from Apple's. A more direct venue for comparison shopping could not be imagined; the stores are literally steps apart, facing each other. If these prices turn out to be real, it's going to be a huge disappointment to the nice people who work in Microsoft's store, who desperately want cool new products, and will instead have to endure an endless stream of customers asking them why they should buy the Win8 tablet cost so much more than the iPads, and who then walk out the door and don't come back.