back to article Apple's trial experts are 'slavish fanbois who believe in magic'

Samsung has asked a Californian court to dismiss seven of Apple's expert witnesses in a patent case - and claimed their "slavish" love for the Foxconn-rebrander means they are unable to give useful testimony. In a Motion to Exclude Opinions of Certain of Apple's Experts, the South Korean giant's lawyers described the Apple …

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  1. NoneSuch Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    When the court room becomes a marketing mosh pit it is time for the judge to step up, stomp down and set the proper agenda for Apple v Samsung.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Who but an expert is supposed to give an opinion when no one else appears to understand how the things work?

      Then the question is where do you get the expert with an opinion?

      Someone who uses it of course because how can you give an opinion if you don't use it.

      I suppose Samsung will have their experts too, their fansungs.

      1. vic 4

        RE: Who but an expert ...

        I think the point was that they are claiming that their opinions are not going to be based mainly on facts or include biased becuase they are apple fanatics. To be an expert you have to be able to derive an opinion on evidence, not because you think it's neat.

        1. Gordon 10
          FAIL

          Re: RE: Who but an expert ...@Vic 4

          Thats rubbish. In these sort of cases the "experts" are all little better than paid for shills - whether from Samsung or Apple.

          All these "experts" will have ultimately the same bias - that for folding green....

      2. Peter 48

        or get an independent source

        Maybe they should ask a couple of Nokia engineers or Blackberry?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: or get an independent source

          How's that supposed to work then? Just because you work for Nokia or RIM doesn't mean you might not have a bias one way or the other for or against Apple or Samsung. Neither side will have experts testify without knowing what they are planning to say, so they'll only select those who agree with their position. No difference from the situation now, in other words.

          The only role for truly independent randomly selected experts would be if the court were to employ them, but such a thing doesn't exist in the US court system. Failing that, your desirability as an expert witness will hinge on you stating what the party signing your check wants the judge and jury to believe.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why not ask

    Bill Gates

    1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

      Re: Why not ask

      or for a more emotional (i.e., high blood-pressure) pitch, Steve Balmer

  3. Gordon Pryra
    Trollface

    Samsung Fanbois

    Samsung are in danger of getting their own fanbois.

    Only yesterday I told someone "yeah but I can change the channels on my TV with my Galaxy S2!!"

    Then I said It used magic.....

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Samsung Fanbois

      In danger of?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Samsung Fanbois

        True there are fanbois, but samsung IS a good manufacturer, and their products talk to each other, and rivals, nicely.

        Try connecting to a mates wifi when your round his house & showing photos/video on his tv without cables using an iPhone, I can do it with any DLNA equipped TV as standard. i.e. most new TV's with a network port!

        1. Tom 7

          Re: Samsung Fanbois

          I've found that things with computers in them, surprisingly, behave like computers from time to time.

          Even better if you can get past the restrictions some people put on them...

        2. Peter Storm

          Re: Samsung Fanbois

          "samsung IS a good manufacturer"

          I'd take issue with that. I swore I'd never buy another Samsung product when the last thing bricked itself just after the warranty ran out, just like all the previous stuff of theirs I'd bought.

          1. JEDIDIAH
            Linux

            Re: Samsung Fanbois

            It's no longer the 80s. Perhaps it is time to let up on them a little bit.

            Their kit seems to have gotten better.

            Besides, some of that stuff ends up in "magical" iDevices. You can't really trash Samsung without invoking some degree of crapulence inheritance.

          2. Sporkinum

            Re: Samsung Fanbois

            True on Samsung lack of quality. We bought Samsung 6 monitors at work. 4 of them died between 2-3 years of age. Fortunately they were still under warranty and were replaced. Due to a 66% failure rate, I have removed Samsung as a choice when I replace my TV.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Samsung Fanbois

              Considering samsung make panels for other manufacturers, its best to check out the manufacturers supplier if your concerned about Samsung products, personally I have 3 BenQ monitors, and so far so good!

              I did notice there was a distinct difference between country of purchase and quality/reliability, when I was reading reviews.

              I wonder whether countries with weak consumer rights get lower quality batches?

            2. Giles Jones Gold badge

              Re: Samsung Fanbois

              Not to mention the fact that when supplies are low they go for inferior panels made by competitors for their monitors.

            3. Alan Denman

              Re: Samsung Fanbois

              Obviously if it was an Alple banded version of the Samsung monitor you would have needed to buy Applecare or stump up a thousand bucks + for repair.

              Long warranties work because they seldom break down. Short warranties are where failure is high though luck also comes into it.

          3. Danny 5
            Happy

            Re: Samsung Fanbois

            i really can't imagine that's anything but plain bad luck. i've had Samsung stuff for over 20 years and have been amazed many times about the amount of physical abuse their hardware could take before it failed. i had one of those classic "boombox" sets with one of the first CD players in it. it survived savage beatings (loads of falling down from stuff, stairs, hills, out of windows, that kind of shit) and only died when my "friends" who borrowed it, thought it was a good idea to play a round of football with it (i still resent them for that).

        3. DAN*tastik
          Headmaster

          Re: Samsung Fanbois ( AC 22nd May 2012 13:00 )

          "when your round" should be "you're". There's no possession involved.

          Thank you.

    2. jai

      Re: Samsung Fanbois

      funny - I control my Samsung telly with their app on my iPhone....

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Samsung telly app

        Excellent to hear, I've never hunted for an iphone app for my telly as I don't have one... Now if the iPhone supported DLNA, MKV's, & had a decent sized screen, replaceable battery and took an SD card, it would then be a viable replacement to my SGS!

    3. Danny 5
      Thumb Up

      Re: Samsung Fanbois

      I was about to proclaim my own Samsung fanboiïsm (i think i've just invented a new word!), but then i realized i was going to buy my first real smartphone soon, a Lumia 800. I do love their stuff though, i have a 40" LCD TV by Samsung and consider them first for all my electronics purchases. I've had several older phones by them as well. My love for Nokia phones is quite easy to explain though, i've been (or am, it's still lying around somewhere and i'm 100% sure it'll work when i find it and the battrery will be fine) the proud owner of a 6310i and let's face it, there will never be a better phone then that.

  4. Jon Double Nice

    These accusations sound best

    when imagined being read by Jackie Chiles from Seinfeld.

    1. Tony S
      Joke

      Re: These accusations sound best

      When I first read that, I thought it said "Jackie Chan" - now that would be funny!

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just make sure

    The judge uses a Windoze phone for assured impartiality.

    1. dogged

      Re: Just make sure

      Disqualified by the hugely underwhelming Samsung Focus.

  6. Steve Evans

    lolz!

    Thanks for that article, gave me and the office a right good chuckle.

  7. ThomH

    "the Foxconn-rebrander"

    Are you sure you didn't mean to write that Steve Jobs' death had opened the way for Samsung to attack Apple's witnesses?

    1. FartingHippo
      Devil

      Re: "the Foxconn-rebrander"

      iBaiting at its finest.

      Must be a slow day in El Reg Towers...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "the Foxconn-rebrander"

        "iBaiting at its finest.

        Must be a slow day in El Reg Towers.."

        But true!

    2. amanfromearth

      Re: "the Foxconn-rebrander"

      Yes, it boils my piss too, but I think the intelligent use of sarcasm is beyond the understanding of Reg hacks.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "the Foxconn-rebrander"

        You're forgetting the register's 4-stage sarcasm plan: Use, Reuse, Overuse, Abuse.

        1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: "Use, Reuse, Overuse, Abuse"

          Wasn't stage five "Light fuse"

          see icon

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "the Foxconn-rebrander" @Chris 19

          Come now - for 95% of Reg readers, that's a classic example of pot and kettle, no? I would give examples, but there are so, so many (think of all the fun and oh-so-clever plays on Microsoft, Facebook and so on. Reg readers do have a habit of playing to the audience and thinking the resultant upvotes are a realistic measure of their intelligence ...)

  8. Dave 126 Silver badge
    WTF?

    Anna- Given that Apple gear has never been released under the Foxconn brand, how the hell can be Apple be said to be 'rebranding' it?

    1. jai

      Also, I'm sure I read (possibly on this very site) that Foxconn produce products for Samsung also.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn#Major_customers

      If Scrib.com-rebrander Anna was at all impartial (y'know, like a proper journalist) then the article would start something like:

      "Foxconn-rebrander Samsung has asked a Californian court to dismiss seven of Foxconn-rebrander Apple's expert witnesses in a patent case"

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      real 'em in boys, real 'em in

      1. Vic

        > real 'em in boys, real 'em in

        What an incredible metaphysical allusion.

        I suspect "reel" would probably have been the better word in this case, though...

        Vic.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      >Anna- Given that Apple gear has never been released under the Foxconn brand, how the hell can be >Apple be said to be 'rebranding' it?

      He gets downvoted, but no one has answered the question. Curious, that. I note that Anna then tells the same 'joke' again, on the Apple HQ story...

      I don't really rate one platform over another, but if people don't take just a little care with the English language, our dialect will end up like either George W Bush or Chinese goods manual translated into English by machine.

      Oh, and Anna, the forums here don't really need you to bait them, do they? They are plenty capable of straying from any pertinent point without your input, ta. Causing flames for the sake of it is just tedious if it is a fire that we have seen a thousand times before.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Can't fault their stance

    Apple fans are known to rabidly attack anybody who dares criticize their beloved company.

    1. Oliver Mayes

      Re: Can't fault their stance

      The same can be said for Microsoft, or Linux, or any popular brand. Say anything bad about them and expect the foaming-at-the-mouth weirdos to yell at you.

      1. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Re: Can't fault their stance

        Yeah, but the Apple criticisms are usually in response to ludicrous fanboy claims that even Apple Corp itself wouldn't be willing to take ownership of.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Flame

          Re: Can't fault their stance

          Yeah like 20xx is the year of the Linux desktop claims....

          1. Figgus
            Joke

            Re: Lost all faith...

            Oh ye of little faith, Microsoft is doing their absolute best to ensure that 201x is the year of the Linux desktop after all!

            1. ChrisM
              Trollface

              Re: Lost all faith...

              But which one.... Gnome, KDE, Unity etc etc....

        2. Alan Denman

          Re: Can't fault their stance

          And Apple just throw the pebble in the water.

    2. Danny 5
      Trollface

      Re: Can't fault their stance

      obvioiusly there's a reason everyone here remembers the old "MAC vs PC" flamewars. They're sort of back, but now with added players!

      You still get to love your favorite company and proclaim your undying support, but now there's the added benefit of not just hating one oponent, but tons of them!

      let the flamewars....

      COMMENCE!!

    3. John Bailey

      Re: Can't fault their stance

      And by criticise, you mean not praise in the most vomit inducing prose possible.

  10. amanfromearth

    But back ontopic ..

    So the chat between CEOs yesterday came to nothing? It would actually be news worth reporting, but the Reg writers care not one whit for that.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: But back ontopic ..

      It would be worth reporting, and no doubt they'll report it when they've finished. Think that might be today (it was 2 days or more, can't remember off-hand how many).

    2. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

      Re: But back ontopic ..

      If they say anything interesting or of worth, then we'll cover it.

      C.

      1. amanfromearth

        Re: But back ontopic ..

        .. and if not you'll just , like make some shit up?

        1. Intractable Potsherd

          Re: But back ontopic ..

          What's your problem, amanfromearth? Perhaps you are smarting because it was pointed out that you didn't have a clue what you are talking about re: the discussions between the CEOs?

          If you don't like the reporting here, there are many, many other places you can get your news, one or more of which may do so in a way that suits your taste.

  11. Christoph
    Happy

    Susan Kare

    "The experts Samsung objects to include Susan Kare"

    It might not be a good idea to annoy someone whose brother Jordin works with giant lasers :)

    1. amanfromearth

      typo?

      I believe the correct term is

      "giant frikkin lasers"

  12. LinkOfHyrule

    Just found an actual transcript of the court case online...

    Your honor, unicorns do so exist! Steve had a whole stable full of them back in Cupertino - we would squeeze their teats to extract the magic! We then take that magic, ship it off to China, and 8 weeks later a new version of iPhone emerges!

    We put it to this court that Samsung has willingly and recklessly infringed our magic milking patent in the production of their so called smart-phones. They may be smart, but your honor, they sure aint magic! I rest my case...

  13. Pete 2 Silver badge

    Pulled a rabbit out of the hat

    > [Apples] ... magical and revolutionary products

    Dang, you mean Apple have patented magic?

    1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Pulled a rabbit out of the hat

      I thought the Unseen University had prior art on that. Go ahead Apple, sue UU, they have a pond full of people who tried to sue them.

      Doffs hat to TP

  14. Lee Taylor
    Joke

    Good to see Stephen Fry is still eligible to testify

  15. ■↨

    Animal Farm

    "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Animal Farm

      Just revising for your GCSEs then?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Animal Farm @AC 14:16

        Could be - has he posted 1984 quotes or that now horrendously trite custodes crap on any Internet related articles yet? Though in my experience people only tend to get that trite when they reach college age and start to think they're Robin Hood. Thankfully most exclude themselves from society by becoming crusties or playing Internet Freedom Guardian on the Reg forums.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    'Slavish fanbois who believe in magic'?

    Is there any other kind?

  17. Stevie

    Bah!

    ..."and they dress stupid and smell funny and have cooties".

  18. Stretch
    Go

    Goooooooooooooooooo Samsung!

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Apple & Samsung try to exclude some of each others expert witnesses from trial.

    When you can write the content of an article in the headline you know it's link bait deserving of being rated 1 out of 10.

    1. Fibbles
      Trollface

      President Kennedy shot in Dallas

      [Content not required]

  20. Oninoshiko

    We know why samsung objects

    and it's probibly a fair objection.

    On what grounds did Apple object to samsung's testimony?

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Susan Kare - who designed the user interface, icons and fonts for the original Macs in the 1980s"

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again, iOS is as attractive as 80's wallpaper. And look! From the horses mouth!!

  22. Joe User
    Trollface

    Solution for Apple's "experts"

    Just give each one a towel so they can wipe the brown stain off their noses before taking the stand....

    Problem solved.

  23. Dropper
    Thumb Up

    Unreasonable

    I think Samsung have this unreasonable expectation that the so-called experts dug up by Apple would have something relevant to say about the patents Apple is defending.. for example can someone who created a second-rate OS for a black and white computer give expert testimony on whether or not Samsung ripped off Apple's touchscreen tech.

    I'm sure Samsung are just as guilty of boring the judge to death with flowery, rose-tinted bullshit.. which is why they had a bunch of their fanbois thrown out already.

    Actually it seems refreshing that experts are actually being called on their expertise. In most technology trials this is pretty much never done, with the courts just accepting claims of expertise by random people who have invented bullshit titles for themselves.

  24. Asher Pat

    at last, Samsung speak like men, saying what everybody knows

    Usually, they are meek and are unwilling to say what everybody knows - there are people who see Apple as some kind of higher entity that needs to be helped (even without being shareholders), and its competitors are seen as enemies that need to be decimated.

    But Samsng are still spineless. If they had a shred of self respect and at least one test- icle, they wud have said to Apple - see you in court, but in the meantime, look for another supplier, mateys.

    Maybe they will wake-up to the fact that they are men, but I dont hold my breath.

  25. AdamWill

    Are you now, or have you at any time been...

    ...a member of the marketing department of Apple Computer?

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