I wanted one, right upon til the moment I realised it doesnt have windows.
Renault Twizy budget e-car
Some vehicles are more suited to certain geographical locales than others. Case in point: Renault's new two-seater electric runabout may not make much sense in central Manchester on a cold, dark, drizzly December evening. On the other hand, on a sunny afternoon on a Mediterranean island it could be right at home. Lucky, then, …
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 11:08 GMT NogginTheNog
target market
I was in Paris last week. Loads of mopeds there, and parking for anything bigger than a mini is a nightmare! So I could see the target market for this, especially if you think of it more compared to 2 wheels, where braving the elements is nothing new.
One question though: how would it fair for tax and insurance, given it's got 4 wheels? Would the lease plan include those too?
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 11:22 GMT Charlie Clark
Re: tax and insurance
Good question. The pictures have it with a full French licence plate which means that, in France at least, it's a car not a scooter. Expect governments to adjust regulations to suit policy objectives and budgetary requirements!
Insurance might be close to scooters and subject to the usual postcode lottery. Alun should be fine as long as sticks to his usual surroundings and keeps out of Ordsall and the Moss! You can just see this kind of thing getting trashed by any estate yoof...
Nice to see it getting such a positive review for the handling.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 11:32 GMT Nev
It's not a car...
It's not classed as a car in France.
It's a four wheeled scooter. (That doesn't even need a licence to drive it on the roads in it's 5HP version.)
Might do well running on all that super-clean nuclear/hydro generated electricity.
Market success will depends on the cost of the all important battery leasing deal.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 13:54 GMT James Micallef
Re: target market
Yeah, it's basically a 4-wheeled scooter providing a bit more added protection and luggage space while removing the need for a helmet. At just about twice the price of a scooter it's not too expensive either. Personally I'd prefer an actual scooter for getting around in heavy traffic and for the ability to park anywhere, including pavements at a pinch (technically illegal but it's usually overlooked if it's not too busy a pavement), but I can see the appeal of this to people not so comfortable with the exposure of being on 2 wheels.
Of course no use in the UK but perfect for the Med. Does look like lots of fun to head off to the beach with
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Wednesday 11th April 2012 14:03 GMT DJ 2
Re: target market
Impossible to charge in Paris, if your building does have a garage, and they are way out of my price range. The chances that you have electric sockets down there is next to nill. Public parking at 45 euros a night, sort of invalidates that Idea, so target market can't be Paris / London.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 11:09 GMT James Cooke
I love the idea and it's getting close but still too expensive given that you can get a Toyota Aygo a year old for that price and £45 would more than cover the petrol costs for the distance you are planning in a Twizzy plus you have a car with windows.
Maybe its more attractive on HP but where it really seems to be lacking is that it has most of the disadvantages of scooters - no windows, low speed and in this case low range combined with missing one of their big benefits of lots of available parking.
Battery tech is a big problem here - at £6k without the extra battery charges and upping the range a little the equation would probably start to change a lot.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 11:15 GMT Tony S
It looks (and seems to perform) a bit like my mother's mobility scooter. She was bloody lethal on it, mowing people down in the supermarkets. I had planned to get a set of cow horns to stick on the front to encourage people to get out of her way. Had also thought about getting a leather jacket for her and put studs on the back saying "Born to Gran". 8-)
I like the idea, but think that it seems too expensive for what you get. Still, anything to start encouraging people to move away from reliance on current modes of transport.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 11:51 GMT Richard 12
Re: Or I could stick with my diesel
Exactly.
In London with the latest diesel prices I pay just under £70 for about 7 weeks commute, and mine's an older diesel in a relatively big car.
So my big car has only a little bit higher running costs (and cost me less to buy) than this quadbike - which nearly fits in the boot. (I think it's probably too tall, would have to cut the roof off and slip it in beside it.)
When comparing things of a similar size with newer engines do quite a bit better.
The baby Fiats, Toyotas and Citroens have similar 'up front' cost, are considerably cheaper to run, have windows, some of them aren't ugly*, and perhaps most importantly they can be charged in two minutes.
That said, this kind of golf cart runabout might suit a small Caribbean or Mediterranean island, or evil volanic lair.
* What is it with 'eco' models? Almost all of them look hideous, and there's no need for that.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 12:02 GMT JDX
Re: Or I could stick with my diesel
>>Run this past me again, why would I want one?
Because you're not buying it based on it being the most cost-effective option. At least not if you're the target market.
Because you look like a fool when you spend 30min looking for a parking space for your proper car, driving past hordes of these things.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 15:36 GMT Ian 62
Re: Or I could stick with my diesel
"Because you look like a fool when you spend 30min looking for a parking space for your proper car, driving past hordes of these things."
1) You mean these things ran out of 'leccy and your desiel keeps going.
2) You mean these things fit in smaller spaces and you are struggling to find a big enough space
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 11:32 GMT Steve Crook
But where do I charge it?
It looks like a good thing, if you have a garage or a drive to park it on. I have neither. Indeed, so days I can't park within 200m of my house. I live in a semi in a medium sized market town and this sort of vehicle would deal with 70% of the journeys I make.
But I can't charge it, and probably never will be able to. I'd like to be more enthusiastic, but it still seems like something for a small minority of people unless someone is prepared to spend a *lot* of money on infrastructure.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 11:37 GMT Ru
What is it about the brief, "Design an Electric Vehicle" that cripples all aesthetic sense?
Maybe its more the 'very small car' market than electric vehicle market specifically, but this is a starlingly f'ugly piece of kit. Are there no competent scifi-style artists out there anymore who can render something a little more sleek looking than this?
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 11:47 GMT Alister
Re: What is it about the brief, "Design an Electric Vehicle" that cripples all aesthetic sense?
I think that, in order to make it "sleeker" one would have to make it longer and wider - and therefore heavier - and so would lose it's nippiness, manoeuvrability and comparatively low price tag, as well as it's "almost-a-moped-but-better" credentials. That said, I have to agree, it's not pretty.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 17:43 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: What is it about the brief, "Design an Electric Vehicle" that cripples all aesthetic sense?
Eco-cars don't have to be uniformly ugly, I suppose they have to produce something "eye-catching". And I don't see why it can't be side-by-side seating as the additional frontal-area is neither here nor there at the low speeds most citydwellers crawl about at. The only good news is it should be easy to rip the engine and transmission out and build it into a trike.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 11:55 GMT Danny 14
lease for £100?
Not any time soon with a £45 surcharge for battery. Perhaps a lease for £100 +£45 then you'd be better off with a Kia (no car tax either). Interesting to see what insurance group it will be as I guess it will be classed as a cabriolet. Just buy a motocycle and sidecar, at least they look better.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 12:02 GMT Ian 62
So, you wouldnt want to leave it where any 'ner do wells' could do mean things to it?
So.... That means in the city I need
A) Somewhere safe I can park regularly to charge it up
B) Somewhere safe I can park regularly where it wont get vandalised.
So (again) its a city car thats not secure to leave somewhere in the city.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 12:10 GMT mike2R
I was right behind something vaguely like this at a level crossing.
The barriers went up. Long pause. Electric car inched onto the track at a speed that would have embarrassed a sloth. Half way across it paused... for about 45 seconds. I forbore from honking, on the theory that someone who's car has stopped half-way across a railway line probably has enough to think about. Finally it inched onwards.
Think I'll pass, personally.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 12:19 GMT Anonymous Coward
Glorified Golf Cart
So, this is a glorified golf cart then? Seriously: when I visit family in Phoenix, you see this sort of use-case all over, filled by golf carts.
This may be a bit faster than a golf cart, but not much.
And sadly, the price isn't that far out of line with a new golf cart, either.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 14:55 GMT Anonymous Coward
Just like a G-Whiz
It may ,look better than a G-Whiz (hard to imagion anything looking worse), but the lack of windows probabaly kept it under the weight limits for being classed as a quadricycle.
The main thing being that a "quadricycle" does not have to pass ANY road safety tests.
The main problem with these is that the owners "feel protected", but are in fact no better off than if they were on a scooter. Infact they could be more dangerous as they have just enough car like features to trap a person, without those same feature providing any significant protection.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 16:38 GMT Al Taylor
Safety
Renault's comments on this are that "Renault's rigorous safety standards were applied to Twizy to the letter, well beyond the requirements demanded by quadricylce legislation."
Personally I can't see Renault selling something that will fold like a wet cardboard box when thumped by a black cab at 20mph.
But even if it got a 5 star Euro NCAP rating you would still be toast if you got hit by a Range Rover doing 70mph just as you would be on a scooter or in a small hatchback.
Let me put it this way, I've ridden a scooter around central Rome but I'd have been a hell of a lot happier in a Twizy.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 17:59 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: Safety
"......I've ridden a scooter around central Rome but I'd have been a hell of a lot happier in a Twizy." I've ridden cycles and motorbikes around many European cities and I disagree, because I suspect even a scooter would have better primary safety than a Twizy. I survived the Arc de Triumph on a motorbike, I wouldn't want to try it in a Twizy because it doesn't look like it will have as good primary safety. Primary safety means features that can help you avoid an accident (such as visibility, agility, accelleration, braking) rather than secondary safety which is what NCAP is all about (crumplezones, intrusion beams, etc), which are all about during the accident and after. One of the advantages of bikes is that you have excelent visibility - the Twizy has a solid rear which cannot be good for spotting something like a superbike behind. Another advantage of bikes is you can zip through smaller gaps, which the Twizy can't because it is to wide. A motorbike can also accellerate out of danger - the Twizy probably can't. Defensive driving for bikers is a lot about primary safety, and I'd rather rely on that than drive a mobile chicane like the Twizy.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 18:22 GMT Al Taylor
Re: Safety
"I survived the Arc de Triumph on a motorbike"
As have I, but on a 50cc Yamaha moped.
And I've driven a Twizy so can make a direct and first hand comparison between the speed, visibility and maneuverability of the Renault verses that of a moped or a 125cc bike while wearing a crash helmet.
That's a first hand comparison I'm going to assume you can not.make.
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 20:42 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: Re: Safety
"....on a 50cc Yamaha moped.... And I've driven a Twizy..... a first hand comparison I'm going to assume you can not.make." It's probably a comparison I wouldn't want to publicly admit to being able to make. After all, the old joke is that riding a scooter is like sex with a fat girl - all fun until your mates find out. I wouldn't be seen dead on 50cc moped, and not just because I consider them deathtraps, but then I see that may not be a problem for you. It looks like the modern version of the joke will be driving a Twizy is like sex with a fat girl that used to date AI Taylor.....
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Tuesday 10th April 2012 18:41 GMT Alan Brown
It may have doors
But I'd still wear protective gear and a full face helmet - see comments about what happens when hit by range rover pretending that anything smaller doesn't exist (or BMW driver with broken indicators)
That's if I can find a way of it not being used as a urinal (or worse) by the local Yuuffs (Don't leave motorcycles on the street around here!)
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Wednesday 11th April 2012 09:25 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: Oh do be quiet
Yes, and your careful counter-arguments are just so reasoned and informative. The idea of young teens being allowed to drive the even-more-low-powered version around without a license or supervision is - frankly - frightening, almost as frightnening as your inability to articulate a view on the matter in hand. Having seen the results of Continental teens and their mopeds mixing with traffic, I can't say this is a Continental import I will look forward to seeing on UK roads.
European studies (e.g., http://www.swov.nl/rapport/R-2004-10.pdf) show that moped riders are more likely to be involved in fatal accidents than either motorbike riders or cyclists, especially if they are young teens. One theory is that young teens are careful when cyclists because they have been educated that a cycle is not in the same class as other road vehicles, leading them to cycle in a more defensive manner. They usually have to be older (and wiser and more experienced) by the time they get on a proper motorbike. But when a young teen can get on a moped, without that experience or training, they think they are on a "proper" road vehicle and try to ride more aggressively, leading to accidents with real vehicles. Just take a look at any number of the idiots on mopeds in Greek resorts on your next Summer holiday. Putting them in a pretend car like the Twizy is just going to make matters worse.
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Wednesday 11th April 2012 10:55 GMT Al Taylor
Re: Oh do be quiet
Matt, I hate to disabuse you but that AC comment had nothing to do with me. I always post under my own name for all to see.
As for "reasoned counter arguments" though I found your "fat girl" comments not a little puerile and childish.
While on secondment to the Paris office of a record label I worked for at the time I had plenty of opportunity to zip around town on one of the fleet of scooters the company ran for staff to get between offices and studios so it's something I can comment on from experience.
To touch on another point visibility in the Twizy is very impressive. Yes the back is a blind spot, but a small one thanks to the large side mirrors which are much better than anything I've seen or used on a bike. Otherwise visual and aural awareness is helped massively but not having to wear a helmet.
Whether or not the Twizy will find a home in the UK is open to debate - I'd agree that we don't have a scooter culture in the same way that France or Italy does but that doesn't in any way detract from my appreciation of it as the fine execution of an interesting idea.
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Wednesday 11th April 2012 12:32 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: Re: Oh do be quiet
No disabusing needed, I wasn't confusing the AC and yourself. Dude, it's not all about you, get over yourself.
".....As for "reasoned counter arguments" though I found your "fat girl" comments not a little puerile and childish....." Well, I do admit your comments were far more intelligent than the AC's effort, but it does seem that you need to develop a thicker skin. You also need to realise that vehicle purchases aren't just practical choices, they are emotional ones as well, with many people looking at their choice of vehicle as also being a reflection on their persona, and most people view mopeds (quite rightly) with contempt. To many, the Twizy is likewise just too embarrassing to consider as an option.
"....but a small one thanks to the large side mirrors...." Hmmm, seeing as I regularly see drivers of ordinary cars with bigger mirrors fail to see cars either behind or beside them, I think your faith in side-mirrors is a little misplaced. Gawd help us all if Volvo ever make a version!
".....but that doesn't in any way detract from my appreciation of it as the fine execution of an interesting idea." That is your opinion. Mine is that it is a poor example of an old idea, no more developed than the many other Fwench microcars such as the Secma or Ligier offerings, and about as likely to succeed in the UK as the Sinclair C5. Trying to sell it to teens that shouldn't be on the roads on the basis that they can drive it before they get a proper licence is tantamount to encoruaging road accidents just so Renault can make a profit.
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Thursday 12th April 2012 08:39 GMT thomaskwscott
I don't get it
It's got 2 seats (like a 125cc bike), does 50 mph at the top end (like a very slow 125cc bike) does 50 miles for a quid (like a 125cc bike) and costs twice as much as a 125cc bike. Ignoring the green super rich (who lets face it will buy anything that says zero emissions on the side and costs 3 times as much as the alternatives) who do they think they're going to sell this to? Buy the bike and spend the extra cash on the right protective clothing and you'll probably be better off in an accident (and better weather protected too).
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Friday 13th April 2012 14:30 GMT Matt Bryant
Re: I don't get it
Or, if you've been propagandised into fearing motorbikes (as many seem to have been), SMART are currently doing an offer of a Four-Two on £99/month. Personally I'm not a big fan of the SMART either, but at least it's a proper car with the advantage it can be used on the motorway.
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Sunday 15th April 2012 23:57 GMT Alan Brown
mopeds and crash stats
Mopeds are involved in higher crash rates in 2 signficant areas.
1: Car turns left across their path
2: Moped crashes into left rear corner of the car (swap sides for the rest of europe)
Both of those happen because moped riders tend to travel in bicycle position on the road at 2-3 times the standard bike speed - AND inexperienced riders leave themselves without adequate safety margins - mopeds can only brake, not accelerate out of trouble.
I rode a moped for a year before going to full license. Never had a crash, saw some pretty stupid stuff being done by moped riders and anticipated more than a few idiot motorists pulling out of driveways.
The best advice I ever got was "Wear bright clothing, a FULL FACE(*) helmet, lights on at all times and ALWAYS ride in the right wheel track of the cages where they can see you"
Same holds true with larger bikes. Riding in the "oil slick" is plain stupid, but many riders seem to do this by habit and the ones who sit in my left track clearly have no idea about blind spots, regularly leaving me looking about for where they've managed to put themselves.
(*) The best argument I've seen for full face helmets and decent gloves was one of my high school teachers who in his youth had the misfortune to have an "off" at speed without gloves and in an open face helmet.
CBT is a great idea and I wish it was around when i was a learner, however it's not necessary to have a certificate before riding a moped - It should be.