back to article Nokia exec: Young fashonistas 'fed up' with iPhone

A Nokia exec has identified the target market to which his Espoonians will "deliver services and phones that are different" from the industry-leading iPhone and Android-based smartphones: jaded kids. "What we see is that youth are pretty much fed up with iPhones. Everyone has the iPhone," Nokia Entertainment Global sales …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    WinPho = WinPhoney

    Nuff said.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      WOW

      Saw what you did there, are you on stage coz you is brill

    2. CheesyTheClown
      Thumb Down

      Only problem with windows phone is

      it doesn't have iTunes and iTunes Music store.

      That'll change when they start running Windows 8 on phones... someday.

  2. bobdobbs
    FAIL

    "and visions of sugar-plums danced in his head"

    would have been a more appropriate sub-heading... this guy is effin' dreaming!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Yes, it's nice to know that despite the corporate gutting, the Nokia echo chamber of delusion is still intact. "Ooh, we've released a Windows Phone model - isn't that impressive? Let's bask in our own glory for a few months!" Several months pass.

      "What do you mean everyone else has released five new models since our last one? We're Nokia, we're special! Wasn't one model enough?"

      1. UkForest

        Seems to be working quite well for Apple!!!

    2. CheesyTheClown
      Trollface

      Remember when Nokia was cool?

      That was back around 1998. Since then, they have released one pathetic phone after the next. I can safely say... choosing Symbian simply ruining any street cred they could ever hope to regain.

      Nokia is "The Granny Phone Company" now. It's hilarious that they're trying to be cool now. What's worse is, that even granny is switching to iPhone and Android now.

      Windows Phone is really awesome though... I love it... it's just that I have my whole life eco-system revolving around iPhone these days. I am dumping my iPad for a far more useful Windows 8 Tablet this evening (watching the UPS tracking site as I write) but I can't imagine giving up my iPhone for anything else.

      Now, if Apple were to port iTunes to Windows Phone... or somehow made it possible to use purchases from the iTunes music store on their phones... I might be interested. But it's Nokia... I don't think I'd be seen in public toting a Nokia... it's just that I have pride and frankly, Nokia is... well "The Granny Phone Company".

      They really should consider changing the company name or spinning off their mobile phone division. No one wants to get their smart phone from "Nok-granny-phone-ia". Well... there are probably some people who wear ties that might... but that's only because they don't get it.

      I agree with you thought... it's too funny to hear the head of the granny phone company talking about fashion :)

      1. tmTM

        "The market is saturated"

        What was also missed out was:

        "We are a company with a damaged reputation from many recent poor phones trying to release a new product into a saturated market. We'll be totally fine."

        WP8 may be very good, and the new Nokia is pretty decent, but they've still got a mountain to climb to make a success of it.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        o_0

        "my whole life eco-system"

        Your whole fucking what?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @TheCheesyClown

        "I can safely say... choosing Symbian simply ruining any street cred they could ever hope to regain."

        The problem was not Symbian. As everyone else, you are confusing the core OS with the GUI. They were completely separate. The Symbian OS was the most efficient and most developed phone OS bar none. The battery life was phenomenal. My old E71 used to run for over a week with normal use.

        My wife has it now and I was amazed when we came back from a two week holiday and she finally asked where the charger was. After 18 months with a HTC Desire HD, I had forgotten just how good the Symbian based phones were.

        The GUI side, bolted on by Nokia, was a total bastardised mess. Then they did the usual Nokia thing of panicking, buying someone out to try to fix their woes (QT) and then dithering for 2 years without delivering anything.

        Nokia constantly flail about trying to plug the gaps and are totally incapable of actually sitting down and developing a potent deliverable strategy and then sticking to it.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Windows?

    Isn't that what grandpa used?

  4. Spanners Silver badge
    Happy

    I suppose

    I am more likely to consider buying a one of Nokia's offerings than anything from Apple.

    But I am almost certain to replace my current Android with another Android. Sorry about than Nokia!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Oh dear, never mind

      When you grow up you will choose on merit instead of fashionable, ignorant anti-fashion.

  5. ratfox
    Trollface

    This is called the Coué method

    "Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better."

    1. Vic

      Don't you mean

      "bitter and butter" ?

      Vic.

      [With apologies to the funny one of the two Ronnies]

      1. ironikaltomsk
        Stop

        What do mean "funny one"?!?

        They were both hilarious in their own fashions!

  6. Wanda Lust

    Parallel realities

    Me thinks another grave miss on market perception from the Espoonians. Maybe they should go spend some time in a place that has more daylight.

    "The Youth of Today" is perhaps being used in the singular, i.e. the one sitting alone in the corner.

  7. Ramazan
    Facepalm

    "Everyone has the iPhone". "Also," he added, "many are not happy with the complexity of Android and the lack of security." I'm not surprised anymore about Nokia's fall after reading this nonsense. Their management truly cannot make up their mind on simplest matters.

    1. Ilgaz

      Back in 2007

      Nokia execs didn't take iphone serious since it didn't have keyboard.I remember saying nothing good can come from both Nokia and Microsoft unless they change their manager culture.

      1. Giles Jones Gold badge

        It wasn't just Nokia, it was Microsoft and even RIM didn't seem concerned. Yet both now have single figure (or barely double figure in the case of RIM) marketshare.

    2. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

      Precisely

      And the Windows brand is the first name that comes to mind when "security" is mentioned.

      I wonder why?

    3. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

      Doesn't stop them being right, though.

      There's nothing wrong with his analysis: iPhone's prestige value is dropping away, and it is becoming something of a uniform among the white middle classes. Both factors will push the trend-setters towards something new.

      Android is ignoring the bulk of the market. If you're reading a tech website, you may not notice this, but most people don't care about "openness" or how easy something is to root. they'd prefer something they DON'T have to dick with, and this is what only Apple offer right now in smartphones (Nokia do this quite well in voice phones, and that's how they conquered that market).

      Whether the Lumia 800 is that "something new" is another matter, but as an object, it's certainly more attractive than any other competitor to the iPhone, and that's the first hurdle to get over: make the potential customer pick it up.

      1. Gerhard Mack
        FAIL

        what a load

        As an Android phone owner I can tell you that you most certainty do not have to "dick with" anything on an Andoid phone. Downstairs from me is a woman who wanted my advice on a tablet. I helped her pick out a Samsung Galaxy tab and then offered to show her how to use it. Turns out she never took me up on the offer because she mastered it on her own. She is not a techie and all she wanted was GPS and the ability to browse websites and check her email and she likes her Android device because it is easy.

        I, on the other hand, have rooted my company assigned Galaxy tab and replaced the OS on my HTC but I love doing that sort of thing. My point is that just because you can doesn't mean that you have to.

        1. Armando 123
          Windows

          "Turns out she never took me up on the offer because she mastered it on her own. "

          Might be that Scary Geek Syndrome that all of us have unknowingly (or cluelessly) caused at one time or another.

        2. Giles Jones Gold badge

          You do if your mobile operator has been dicking with it for you. Which is pretty common when you get a contract phone.

      2. TheOtherHobbbes
        FAIL

        You mean trend setters who aren't white, affluent and middle class?

        Good luck with that.

        Although to be fair, China is likely to sprout an Apple-sized globo-corp of its own - or even a few - in the next decade or two.

        Kudos to Nokia for getting a nice looking WinSlab out the door more quickly than anyone expected.

        But - so what?

        Anyone who wants to take on the iPhone has to understand that making and selling handsets is nowhere near enough. Apple has an advantage because its unified brand includes laptops, desktops, music, media and app distribution, and Cool Advertising [tm.]

        Nokia are doing well on the Jobsian idea of making tech that's shiny, brightly coloured and easy to use. But they still haven't managed to get the unified brand thing to work for them.

        Nokia's music and media service wasn't, the app store didn't - etc.

        If Elop tried to get Nokia into the designer laptop space and followed it up with some clever media licensing - i.e. not just a bloody radio - that might have some interestingosity.

        But Nokia always fail when they try this stuff. (And Microsoft aren't any better at it.)

      3. fandom
        FAIL

        "Android is ignoring the bulk of the market. "

        I guess that's why it only has 53% of the smarphone market

        1. Manu T

          'I guess that's why it only has 53% of the smarphone market' ... for now.

          The market Android is targetting is a market of volatile ppl whom change phones like they switch underwear. In the case of Android phones you mostly have to because after a few months most o/t models don't get official upgrades anyway. So these consumers don't have any brand or OS-loyalty. Don't expect Android to reign forever. As soon as THAT 'market' realise that every jack-shit has an Android phone they'll start abandoning them by the footload.

          It happened with the Blackberrys whom became the not-cool-toy overnight.

          All these corps target the wrong audience but since most of these corps are nowadays ran by jerks anyway I couldn't care less.

          1. Chris Parsons

            WHO change

      4. Dan 55 Silver badge

        @Doesn't stop them being right, though.

        The youth of today couldn't give a f...ig about lack of security. The first thing they do is download several dodgy messengers or facebook/twitter apps to test them out and see if they can be the first to find a better whatever-it-is now and in this sense Android suits them perfectly.

        Everyone forced to use same metro hub UI and official apps is not going to be hip and trendy wit' teh yout.

        I usually have to get rid of an assortment of toolbars and spy/adware on my nice's computer on a twice-monthly basis, every time I give her the lecture about where to get software from, how to tell what's good and what's dodgy, and unclicking everything in the installer and every time it falls on deaf ears.

        Meanwhile I'm peering at the Nokia Store and umming and ahhing over whether I should download the Bloomburg feed app and wondering why couldn't they have done it over the web.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    ..the first time around?

    err, wasnt this the originalproblem for them? EVERYONE had Nokias - so people started to buy things that were different...or VERY different. iPhone, Blackberry or Android. People started to buy Android because everyone and their dog had an iPhone....

  9. iGoto

    He might have a point...

    My nephew (who's a 'yoof'), asked me the other day what all this "WinPho shit" was all about. He's been through iPhone/BB and has seen some ad's about that "Blue Nokia". Gave him a quick overview, mentioned about XBox live & FB/Twitter/People hub etc.. Say's he now wants want one.

    Interesting that he latched on to 'Nokia Phone' first rather than Microsoft/Windows Phone. I guess even though Nokia has had it rough the last few years, you can't ignore the brand power the 'Nokia' name/image. Will be interesting to see what happens 6/9 months from now.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Will be interesting to see what happens 6/9 months from now."

      Your nephew will have dropped it for the new shiny. Today's "yoof" have even less staying power than we did at his approximate age, and I'm sure we got accused of the same thing.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        why you didn't talk him out of buying the Lumia 800 when it doesn't have a front facing camera and can't make video calls with the latest software upgrades (Tango?) that will bring video calling.

        No doubt he'll be on a 24-month deal, so will be belly aching for a good 18 months, along with all the other mugs who were told the Lumia 800 was the "best Windows Phone ever" despite all the previous devices from other manufacturers having front facing cameras.

        1. chr0m4t1c
          WTF?

          @AC 02.08

          Really? No front-facing camera is a big deal?

          I don't know anyone of any age who has ever made a video call other than to try it out as a novelty when first getting the phone.

          All I can think is that you must work in marketing, because they are the only people who seem to give a sh*t about front-facing cameras.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            I make video calls all the time

            with friends and family at home and abroad. Facetime on iOS is hugely popular, all it needs is an iPod. I personally use Skype for video calls on a whole range of other non-iOS devices. Maybe you don't make video calls, but for other people it's becoming a much more viable alternative now that smartphone manufacturers have simplified the solution and made it reliable, even enjoyable.

            The omission of a front facing camera will come to bite those Nokia customers in the arse once Microsoft get around to supporting video calls in their next software update - they'll be wondering "what about me?" and regretting their decision to buy early hardware that lacks features.

            1. Dinky Carter

              Video calls

              And I've been making video calls on my various Nokias since about 2006.

              But wait... that was before Apple 'invented' video calls...

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Totally agree, however while Apple didn't invent video calls

                What Apple did do was make video calling popular, reliable and usable - things that Nokia never achieved (or - most likely - even attempted).

                You could say Apple "re-invented" video calls, which would be closer to the truth.

                Video calls on Nokia devices, while possible for many years, was always blighted by low quality cameras (and thus video quality), it didn't always work (even between two Nokia devices) and when it did work you quickly realised it was actually a bit shit (thanks to the aforementioned quality issues, plus WiFi and all-inclusive data plans not being so widespread, not that video calls work terribly well over 3G even to this day).

                Apple changed all of this (with the exception of dodgy 3G call quality).

                Note I'm not an Apple fan, in fact I won't have one in my house - just acknowledging how Nokia monumentally failed and Apple succeeded where video calling is concerned.

      2. John G Imrie

        Yoof of too day

        No staying power that's the problem,

        [Wanders off aimlessly, muttering something about four Yorkshire men and how no one believes him any more]

        1. Armando 123

          @John G Imrie

          Pst! Don't forget to yell "Get the hell off my lawn!"

  10. The Cube
    Pirate

    Yeah, so much stuff is like so yesterday

    "What we see is that youth are pretty much fed up with oxygen. Everyone has the oxygen in the air, we are going to give them hydrogen cyanide instead, this will be really cool for several seconds until they realise why oxygen is so popular..."

    Not that I am suggesting that Windows Mobile=Toxic of course.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @ The Cube

      It's not Windows Mobile but Windows Phone 7. WM a completely different OS.

      Windows Mobile at least had multitasking, lots and lost of apps including UI-enhancements (remember HTC's TouchFlo3D?), was fully compatible with outlook (you know, part of that office-stuff M$ had us swallow for the past decade), could connect to all wifi networks including those with hidden SSID's, Some WM phones could even record phone-calls. Oh...and there were some cool navigation programs for it that could import your contacts-addresses as POI...

      But hey. Today all that matters is Xbox-live, FB, twitter and playing music (preferably bought through some online store).

      It's unfortunate that a small businessman like me still requires a good navigationtool, has a few hundreds address collected in outlook (the past few years), needs the benefit of a call-recording tool to collect proof against abusive customers or to collect name ad address when driving from one client to another. And no I can't allow my sensible client to swim around in some cloud (client confidentiallity). Oh... I mustn't forget that we also make PHONECALLS (aswell to clients as to contractors and suppliers)!

      Perhaps they think about us when we're all extinct and everybody is standing at the unemployement agency tweeting about.

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge
        Devil

        Windows Mobile is also the worst phonecall maker I know

        I've found it to be truly horrible at the business of phonecall making, yet pretty good at the email, and other 'smart' side of things.

        Not tried WP7, and won't because of my experience of WM6.x and other Windows CE-based devices (some of them came with a thingy for pressing the rest button. How confident is that!)

        My wife has a pretty cheap Android (Acer Liquid Express), and she seems quite happy using it - didn't ask me much, she mostly just tells me to stop playing with her phone and to give it back...

        It's really rather good - only thing she's complained about is the battery life because her previous was a classic Nokia, bck when phones had over a week of battery...

        MS have previously said that WM6.x is stll around for 'business customers', yet there are no new devices running it, and very few older devices still in production so that's clearly incorrect.

        WP7 drops the ball anyway for all the reasons you gave, so my next business phone is almost certainly going to be an Android.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Nokia heading for the Danger zone

    Jaded yoof? They don't have iFruity things, they have BlackFruity things. 'Sides, nokia's newfound bedmate bought something promising targeted right at that very demographic then kilt it stone dead through the exact same infighting that saw nokia forced to take a rather high jump off assorted burning platforms. They learned to swim in the meantime then?

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge
      Devil

      My exact thought

      BlackFruity things, damn cheap ones and with a free messaging service to boot.

      That is not a market which can be taken over easily with a good margin.

      As far as real "bored with iPhone fashionistas" (quotes intended) when they are done with iPhone they will start with iPhone accessories like the iPhone integrated BMW, Pioneer AppRadio and all the other similar stuff. None of that dances to tunes from the GooglePlex or Redmond. World has changed. The people who _HAVE_ spending power no longer want just a phone. They want to take that phone and it to plug into their car, music system, house, etc - anything up to and including washing the dishes. That is an area where MSFT has got about zero attention from manufacturers and developers... Unless you want a Fiat with Blue and Me which speaks _VOLUMES_ about your disposable income :) Nokia has even less leverage there than Microsoft.

      This is just a continuation from February. Probably a good idea in some parallel universe. In this one not so much.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Blackberry's new core market?

      Could it be that teens are becoming the Blackberry's new core market? I've been seeing more and more teens carrying Blackberries, usually the lower end curve models with the occasional bold or torch. Perhaps they are tired of fumbling through their 2000+/month text messages with a touch screen and have realized a real keyboard is far better for such heavy use.

      1. Voland's right hand Silver badge
        Devil

        They use BBM instead of texts - it is usually flat priced.

        You are indeed correct - the hoodie is the new BB core market and it is one market it will be able to rely on long after everyone else has switched to a touchscreen slab of some description.

  12. Miek
    Thumb Down

    "Also," he added, "many are not happy with the complexity of Android and the lack of security."

    And he's backing those assertions up with what?

    1. Chris 3

      My guess would be

      ... he is referring to malware in the Android store.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Err, I think the OP is referring to the fact he's making assumptions about people's thoughts on Android.

        As Android devices are flying off the shelves it seems unlikely this is true, and as for people getting tired of the iPhone, maybe they should check the queues outside the shops on the day of release.

        Nokia's gradual decline over the last decade are all attributable to assumptions like this (starting with "why would anyone want clamshell phones?"), you would have thought they would have stopped by now.

    2. Ilgaz

      Too complex

      Right now you can have their precious ui with 2 clicks at android market. Yes windows phone 7 ux (not just ui). No hacks or modification. System has support for it.

  13. Paul Shirley

    dont they already have Blackberry?

    I thought the youngsters fed up with iPhone/Android already had rioter friendly Blackberrys?

    Moving from phones with lots of little, cute icons and a touchscreen to one with less but bigger, uglier icons that don't quite fit on that same touchscreen... hardly appealing is it ;)

    (Did enjoy Microsofts HTML5 WP7 demo on my phone - confirmed that it's just a fugly and limited in action as it looks in pictures of it)

  14. Fihart

    whistling in the dark

    Poor old Nokia, though they're right about Android being complex. I've watched with amazement as a friend struggled with his new ZTE compared with the relative simplicity of using Symbian on my ancient Nokia E71 that has most of the smartphone essentials.

    As for the iPhone, it's a bit rich to suggest that it's passe simply because it's so successful.

    Where I really think Nokia have lost it is on price -- Android phones can be bought for as little as £40 which is nearly what Nokia expect me to pay for a new battery. Won't be a difficult choice when my battery finally dies -- new battery for an old phone or a brand new phone with a new battery included ? And another Nokia customer is lost.

    1. Ilgaz

      Let me predict

      You will say "e71 is good enough" and after seeing ridiculous no future devices you will buy the new battery. In 2 weeks that stupid charger connector will break and you will buy a cheap huawei sonic running android.

      Happened to me :)

  15. Adze

    Complexity of Android? WTF!

    My 65 year old mother in law managed quite well with her HTC Wildfire, but she's a rubbish driver! Anyone who thinks Android is 'complex' should be immediately barred from getting behind the wheel of a car !

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Indeed

      Either these PR drones truly are idiots, or they think people reading it are.

      Android is as hard as you want it to be. Sure there are lots of settings and tweaks you can do to make it work how you want, but the bottom line is you don't ever need to touch these things.

      My 65yr old mother also has a Wildfire, and se has no problems with it. She is unlikely to ever visit the marketplace, she certainly wouldn't change her home launcher, the widgets are what I put there for here. BUT she uses her smartphone every day and loves it, she never thought she could use a smartphone...

      the same OS ( in my Arc S) is also a power-users dream, I can tweak and change anything I want.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Patronising gits

        it's today's 55 to 65 year olds who got computing into the mainstream of business and hobby life. Some ot them are female, even mothers, despite losing brain cells along with the placenta.

        65! I get the impression you think that is the definition of senility. Most 65 year olds I know can run up hills, sail boats, walk long distances, do rock-climbing, ride motor bikes,out-think spotty would-bes and use a real computer (not some wysiwyg abortion of a desktip consumer device) in a way that you patronising adolescents can only dream of.

        Actually, my 82 year old mother is happy with her macbook and a "smart phone" and she was not even in a technical profession, unless you count general nursing.

        Pompous twits. Pray you never get old, e.g. 35.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Power-users dream to break it at any will. Mwa-ha-ha.

  16. Levente Szileszky
    WTF?

    Oh well... classic toxic MS cluelessess finally infiltrated Nokia...

    ...so it's only a matter of time when it becomes part of MS.

    ""Also," he added, "many are not happy with the complexity of Android and the lack of security.""

    Right. Because, unlike Android's underlying linux core, MS Windows is well-known for its hardened security for decades now especially in its mobile offerings, thanks to their also long experience in mobile business including long line of Windows Phone devices.

    1. Manu T

      You probably mean:

      thanks to their also long experience in mobile business including long line of "Windows Mobile and Pocket PC" devices

      1. Levente Szileszky
        Angel

        No, I meant exactly what I wrote - for a reason... just think about it. ;)

  17. Manu T

    esponians :-) How'd they come up with it.

    '"What we see is that youth are pretty much fed up with iPhones. Everyone has the iPhone,"'

    - So 'youth' is the major important market? I hope this fjin doesn't refer to teens whom ask a weekly allowance from their parents? I can't see them as the big spenders. Especially as this suit says a bit later

    'The marketplace is extremely crowded'

    - So you suits concentrate on an already 'crowded marketplace' of consumers whom have no money of their own? Very smart indeed.

    'whose lack of individuality is "very confusing to the consumer." '

    - WTF. This is a contradiction. iPhones are easy because they're all the same and very limited to personalise (read: hard to tamper with).

    'Nokia will need breakthroughs in design, features, and app-developer interest'

    - By going the Microsoft route Nokia don't need to do anything. It's Microsoft that needs breakthrough in features and app-developer interest because they decide to what specs the hardware must adhere and how the OS will evolve. Nokia has absolutely nothing to say in that matter. They can only write their own apps which sets their phones apart from e.g. HTC, LG or Samsung. Just as HTC wrote the Sense HUB to set their phones apart and LG wrote some DLNA-thingy to set their phones apart. Djeez, who writes these things?

    And more importanly what stupid f&^%£%^&%$ runs these companies today? Do these morons ever come out of their ivory tower? No wonder our economy is in shambles. All those stupis ppl ru(i)nning the companies that were supposed to bring us welfare and jobs.

    Get me a rope.

  18. elsonroa
    Unhappy

    Off their rockers...

    I've bought phones directly from Nokia in the past, so I'm on their sales mailing list. The point at which I decided I'm not going to be buying another of their phones was when they started sending me promo Emails full of patronizing juvenile crap about 'Seeking Irregular People' for their 'Amazing Collective' and how I'd be 'sillier than a fake moustache' not to join in with their new social media hipsterfest. At least I now know that alienating boring business-bods like me is part of their marketing strategy, so I don't feel so bad about it...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Yup, I'm not hipster enough either

      ...to rock a Windows phone. Something about proper hygene, shaving, and not looking like I might be a recreational heroin user apparently means I'm not in their target market.

  19. Tom Maddox Silver badge
    Joke

    Espoon!

    Isn't that what The Tick would yell if he were Spanish?

    1. VeganVegan
      Happy

      Close:

      The banker Tick would yell, "Espana eschews escrow".

    2. TheTick
      Coffee/keyboard

      Egads!

  20. Richard 12 Silver badge

    "Sea of sameness"!?

    Has he looked at the Windows Phone website?

    If he's even mentioning that then he can't have actually seen his product, or he still thinks Nokia are shipping Maemo/Meego

    Even the various models of iPhone look more different to each other than the various Windows Phone 7 devices. Windows Phone is homogenous by design intent!

    One can claim that to be a good thing, but claiming the Lumia is not part of a sea of sameness is just stupid.

    [Posted from my Kindle. How different is that!]

    1. Paul Shirley

      Apparently you can't even change the WP7 wallpaper without an unlocked developer phone.

      It's a fashionista magnet - set to repel ;)

      Makes Apple look positively customisable.

  21. Chad H.

    If Fashonistas are fed up with the iPhone....

    Then what does this say for last-years-news Noidea?

  22. jobst
    WTF?

    I have no fucking idea what that guy was on about, am I living in a parallel universe or what?

  23. Big-nosed Pengie
    Unhappy

    Sad

    Nokia had gold with the N900 - arguably still the best mobile Internet device (and phone) ever made. If they'd stuck with that and buit on it they'd probably still be #1. As it is, they'll sink into well-deserved oblivion.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Testify!

      The killer feature for me is the built in FM transmitter. It gives me mp3s / spotify / internet radio in my car without wires or fuss.

      Apparently the (developer only) n950 is very nice, but rare as rocking horse shit. The n9 is also a fine machine but will cost you £600 if you can find one and meego is looking a bit shaky these days.

  24. All names Taken

    Nope - the Apple has it pre-figured.

    Fashionistas go either for the newest best-est or jail broke (no room for tweeny fashionistas)

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Meh

    smart phones entering long tail phase?

    My personal experience is that once I got a tablet/slate/pad computer I wasn't as interested in using smart phone apps anymore. I still have a smart phone, but I use it to *gasp* make and receive phone calls now.

    On the outside chance that other people react the same way, well...this is good for apple, since they have the most popular tablet. And in a way, it's good for nokia because it commoditizes smart phones by making people think of them primarily as phones again, something they are still viewed as excelling at.

    1. Armando 123

      Anyone else remember, way back in late 2006/early 2007, when the world was in black and white and Jobs did the Keynote to introduce the iPhone, that he said 1) the killer app for smart phones is phone calls, and 2) it's amazing how phone manufacturers don't get this.

      Surprisingly, this is still true. "Know who you are" isn't a business mantra for no reason.

  26. Doug 3
    Stop

    and everybody is screaming for Windows phones

    do people post things like this article as a joke or what? There's been decades of Microsoft paying for "research" and "studies" which always showed what was hot sucked and that Microsoft's shit didn't stink. MS-Nokia isn't any different and besides, when an executive makes statements, he or she is going to boost their point of view. When acting like a Microsoft, they'll always disparage the others if there is even a message their product is better.

    Because you know, the customers are asking for it.

  27. Mike Flex

    > Nokia exec: Young fashonistas 'fed up' with iPhone

    I do believe a Miss Mandy Rice-Davies has already addressed this point.

  28. All names Taken

    To be fair, giving prospective customers what they want when they did not know they wanted it as it was lacking from their own-ment range is pretty darned skilful stuff?

  29. Mark Jan

    Different?

    So, according to Nokia, people are fed up with the "sameness" of Apple and Android.

    How in that case is Nokia going to differentiate themselves from the "sameness" of Windows Phone across different manufacturers' devices?

    Now, had Nokia kept Maemo/Meego (especially looking at the superb N9) then they could genuinely claim that theirs was a truly unique offering.

  30. James 47

    Nokia's services

    are likely to be rushed, half-assed copies of something else that someone does better. Then it'll be canned within 6 months.

    Unless MS do all the services, in which case all other WP7 licencees will also benefit, leaving Nokia as an also-ran.

  31. Chronic The Weedhog
    Mushroom

    clueless

    I would have bought a Maemo or Meego phone from Nokia and been proud to do so. but as soon as I read (a long time ago, now) that they dropped out of the Meego project in favor of Microsoft, I have turned down free phones from Nokia, offered by my work to all our IT staff. WinPho, no different than Win8, has an interface made for morons. While my employers buy ever deeper into the Microsoft money-pit, the same company lobbying our governments to bring more expatriot workers into American IT -further erroding our economy, I'm busy migrating my infrastructure to one purely based on Linux. As far as I'm concerned, Nokia has aligned themselves with the IT equivalent of Al Qaida, Microsoft, the most hated company in IT... Aside from SCO, which Microsoft funded to pursue Red Hat & IBM in an attempt to keep from being racked up in another anti-trust case. They both suck and should be destroyed.

    1. nichomach
      WTF?

      Can Godwin's Law

      please be updated with an Al Qaeda/Bin Laden amendment?

  32. MacroRodent
    Thumb Down

    The new emphasis shows

    ... on conversations.nokia.com. It's now mostly about video games and infantile "music". It used to be somewhat interesting for corporate site, but now anyone over 18 years can safely skip it, you wont miss anything worthwhile.

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Effin Finnish Prick Translator Hat

    Translation says:

    "You have tried the best,

    Now try the rest!"

    ---- "please???!"

  34. P. Lee
    Alien

    Windows Hipster?

    If MS wanted their OS to do well, they should have removed all references to MS and windows and just pretended it was all Nokia's idea.

    No-one wants to be reminded of their work pc when they look at their phone after 5pm, it doesn't matter how good it is. This isn't anti-MS, this is just wanting not to think about work or failing IT all the time. Apple's phone is tied to itunes (for windows users) or "my mac" for mac users. You may not like it, but its better then being tied to "windows" which may have viruses or at least needs performance-killing AV software and reminds people of being at work.

    Oh yes, they should have hired Apple's PR agency. Successful, not weird (Nokia) or a loser (Win7 tv ads) is the image of the users you want to project. Its a phone - not many people care about the OS. They assume using it will be easy and expect standard guestures to work and they want decent application integration. Apart from that, you're probably looking at screen and battery life if you want repeat business.

  35. Sklar
    Stop

    I've just done it - broke away from the iPhone experience and bought a WP7 device. Got a second hand HD7 to have a go with to see how restrictive it is. I'm actually very happy with it. There's a couple of niggly things but as long as I have a subnet calculator and a few other choice apps then I'm happy.

    I was sick to the back teeth of everyone and their mum (and 10 year old son) having one. Back in the day (not that long ago) the lines were clear and defined:

    IT bods = Unwiedly smartphone

    Suits = Simple, classy with great battery life

    Kids = Whatever they're parents disposed of after upgrade

    Mums = Whatever they're children disposed of after upgrade

    Grandparents= Comes with a cable to connect to the wall

    'Fashionistas'= Something small with xpress-on covers

    Now the universal answer seems to be iPhone. Gahh.

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Megaphone

    All the while

    the world is watching Windows Phone spectacularly fail, and we are all laughing our socks off and Microsoft and Nokias desperation...

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "YOUNG FASHONISTAS 'FED UP' WITH IPHONE"

    Pfft, I was fed up with the iPhone from the start, well before it was cool to be fed up with the iPhone.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Where have all the Android qwerty phones gone? Then next half decent one gets my new year money. Willing to give WinPho a go if they release one...

  39. nichomach
    Devil

    Just to interject

    a little realism into the discourse, this guy's a PR drone. Expecting him not to sound like one is like expecting water not to be wet. I would note that a couple of people here at my office have got the Lumia 800 and they care as much about front-facing cameras and video calls as any other mobile phone user I've met, which is to say "less than oil companies care about polar bears". What they DO care about is the UI, which they love, and which is fluid and easy to use, the performance, which is likewise excellent, and the screen quality, which is also lovely; they seem to be able to make phone calls perfectly well also. Funny how no-one bitched about the hardware spec when it was called an N9 and people were staying away in droves... Seriously, I suspect that most of the bitching here is from people who have never tried one, but have decided that anything Microsoft MUST be bad. While using Activesync-based email on their Googlephones (oh, the irony! http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/en/us/IntellectualProperty/IPLicensing/Programs/ExchangeActiveSyncProtocol.aspx )...

    Disclaimer: I use a cheapie Android phone myself, and I like it, but that doesn't stop me from recognizing when someone else has a good idea.

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge
      FAIL

      Yes indeed, which is why I think he's rather daft

      He goes on about a "sea of sameness" which the Nokia phone will presumably be better than.

      Yet it is almost impossible to tell the difference between HTC, Nokia, LG etc Windows Phone 7 devices. From more than a couple of feet away they are indistinguishable.

      This is by design - Microsoft deliberately chose to tie all WP7 devices to a very tight hardware spec and the prevent any carrier or manufacturer from customising it.

      There are good reasons for that, and it's a perfectly reasonable idea that could easily work as it means the phone manufacturers and carriers can't screw it up with added tat, as they have previously done with Symbian, Android et al.

      Go to www.windowsphone.com and compare the phones. Can you tell the difference? Would you recognise any of those phones if the big label next to it were covered up?

      So why is the Nokia marketing drone banging on about 'sameness' being a bad thing?

  40. Captain Hogwash
    Flame

    Please please please

    Mr Smartphone maker, give me a phone with an OS which is fully functional without having to tie it to some effin Google/MS/iTunes/etc ID. I'd be your customer for life.

  41. the-it-slayer
    Facepalm

    Hyper-distortion reality field anyone?

    I think this guy has tried to adopy the distortian reality field to ill-effect. Blind yourself to failure and pray everything's going to be alright.

    No point creating a sub-market for yourself that doesn't exist. Make a good phone or move on. Oh no, you can't. Better keep sinking.

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Lets face it! The day of the iPhone is OVER. Like it or not, to be seen with one is to be seen as SO LAST YEAR!

    That's life. It moves on. Get over it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Lets face it! The day of the iPhone is OVER. Like it or not, to be seen with one is to be seen as SO LAST YEAR!

      That's life. It moves on. Get over it."

      --I'll get back to you in 18 months when my network provider says it's ok to

  43. Jim 59

    The kids have calmed down

    If The Youth of Today™ becomes jaded, it is Facebook, Web 2.0 and other fashonware that will sink, not Apple. When your product is no longer The Latest Thing™, it has to survive in the cold glare of merit. Facebook is no longer fashionable. Everybody is bored with knowing their chum just ate an egg sandwich.

  44. fourThirty
    Facepalm

    Typical MS thread...

    Have any of you actually tried the Lumia 800?

    Its a nice piece of kit, and the metro interface is a welcome break from the standard rows of icons. Add in the active slide functionality, and the Xbox live integration and you've got a decent handset.

    I'm a BB and iPhone user,I also have an Android tablet, and I'm happy with all of them... But I strongly believe thats its going to be good having a new contender in the smartphone market!

    1. carlos_c
      Meh

      Complexity

      My missus has an HTC desire and hates it - for her it is too fiddly and she gets lost easily trying to find things - she's getting a Wp7 next upgrade

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Don't care, girl used for pic is O.O do like. :-}

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      and she doesn't look like a fashionista she looks like a cosplayer possibly pro cosplayer. Maybe Kipi?

  46. Scrote

    a marketing problem

    If only WP7 was marketed properly. The adverts for it are almost all shocking piles of crap, "it all starts with a windows 7 pc" doesn't make anyone want to buy it. The worst thing is that it isn't even true, there's some bit of software for a Mac that you can use instead of Zune on Windows.

    One of the comments above states that WP7 doesn't have multi-tasking or the ability to put contact addresses on a map. Other comments say they won't touch it because of WinMo6.5. It's all just because the marketting is useless, of course it has multi-tasking and the ability to stick a contact's address on a map. The WinMo6.5 was crap argument doesn't work because they chucked the whole thing in the bin and started again.

    In my opinion we should all be having a go at Microsoft about the awful marketing. The actual product itself is pretty good.

  47. Scott 19
    Facepalm

    PR

    Might of been better using the line your parents all use iPhones, Android but they don't use these.

    Abit of the old reverse psychology rather than the Yoof will buy these isn’t going to go far they generally follow the line ‘I tell you what to do and you do what you want.’

    1. Chris Parsons

      There is no verb 'to of'; it's 'might have been better'

  48. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    shenanigans

    I call shenanigans on fourThirty.

    Trying to pretend owning the 3 most talked about platforms makes you neutral fails when you say you own iPhone and Android and are still happy with your BB.

    I smell a vested interest.

    1. fourThirty
      Stop

      wtf?

      @AC 14/12/11 11:32:

      Why is this such a hard fact to swallow?

      Not everyone who posts on threads like this feels the need to crucify products purely because its what everyone else does. I do happen to own all three, and as stated think each product has its own merits and pitfalls.

      My BB (Bold 9780) is the perfect personal mobile phone for me, its a good size, has a replaceable battery and a full qwerty keyboard. I'm not really a BBM user, and only use the thing for a bit of facebooking every now and again, so the service outage didnt affect me at all. Hence, being happy with my BB. Only real criticism of the device is the web browser.

      My iPhone (4 32gb) is a company issued device, and is also perfectly fit for purpose. The Exchange activesync works flawlessly without the need for expensive BES services, its also the device I use for the bulk of mobile browsing, add in a few useful apps and its also a perfectly good device. My biggest issues with the iPhone is the lack of a keyboard (I just cant get into touchscreen messaging on smartphones for some reason) and the inability to change the battery.

      The Android device is a cheapo MID tablet, running Cyanogen firmware. Its a bit slow and has a resistive screen, but I only wanted it to have a play with Android so its perfectly fit for purpose.

      Having had a play with the Nokia Lumia handset, I can say that in my opinion, it is a great bit of kit. WP7.5 is a vast improvement on every iteration so far, and it bring something new to the table with regards to the navigation interface...

      Surely its better for the consumers in the smartphone market to have an additional alternative to iOS and Android (in all its different guises)?

      I dont have any affiliation with any particular vendor, product, OS.... My primary home machine triple woots Win7 x64, OSX Lion and Ubuntu. Again, each OS has its own plusses and minuses, and when required, I use whichever one I find most suitable for the task in hand. Win7 is my gaming OS, OSX Lion is my enthusiast OS and was mainly installed as a proof of concept, and Ubuntu is my Linux play area.

      Being able to be objective about new products, instead of bashing manufacturer x or product y, is a far more rewarding approach, and who knows you may find that whatever the newfangled product does may actually have something that you like if you were to actually be more open minded.

      To conclude, I do not have any vested interest in any particular product, just like seeing credible innovation and more healthy competition in such a crucial marketplace in the current economy.

  49. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This made me laugh so much.

    "We missed the party but we heard it sucked, every one back to Bill's for some cooler"

    What this desperately out of touch marketing guy hasn't realised is that you're generally locked to a phone for 2 years and no one wanted a win pho for the first 7 versions anyway.

  50. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    While it's obvious that Nokia have f^cked up big time over the last 5 or 6 years, and that they should've simply replaced their marketing department rather than ditching the superb Symbian/Qt platform, I think you fanbois and fandroids might be surprised in the not too distant future. Lots of people dislike Apple's pricing and practices, and frankly, Android is a shoddy, buggy, insecure mess that sells because it has naff and pointless animations on the home screen, is not Apple, and is *very cheap* (which unsurprising when you consider what it's cobbled together from.)

    AC in case I ever want to apply for a job at Google :-)

  51. Da Weezil
    FAIL

    Short memory?

    People like me are the ones that over the last 10 or so years made Nokia the dominant force in the market, there was no question at Upgrade time... it was a new Nokia. But then we walked away from the more recent tired offerings with limited development and what looked like minimal design and styling. Removal of great ideas like the pop port which made my trusty 6230i easy to connect to my Nokia CARK unit and charge at the same time AND offered hands free answering of calls.... well once that went I started to wonder how long Nokia would be worth bothering with. Now Nokia has lost sight of its "adult" market - the writing really is on the wall.

    I guess we should expect this bigging up from this sub juncture of the redmond collective, sad fact is that Nokia are a spent force and a failing brand.

    The CARK kit survives to this day - upgraded to Bluetooth it now runs my Android fine, although I still miss the "place in holder and it will just work while charging" convenience of the pop port... and the hands free pick up.

    Nokia.. you *were" great... and soon you will be gone, once Redmond Guts you of your useful people and IP.

  52. Saoir

    "What we see is that youth are pretty much fed up with iPhones."

    What planet is this guy on ? LOL

  53. Anonymous Coward
    Mushroom

    All I hear is yadda yadda...

    ... The bloke doesn't know why people buy iPhones.

    Granted, the 'new shiny-shiny' concept is part of it, but by far the least important. The most important for creatives is the fact that they can take photos, show photos, show movie clips, animations... you know... the stuff creatives do.

    And that it comes with FB, Twitter, etc etc makes it a very functional shiny-shiny. I know creatives with Android, but I have yet to hear of creatives with WinPho who don't swear at their devices at least once a day. I have yet to have that with the Apple or the Android shiny-shiny.

    Face it Nokia... unless you do something truly revolutionary, you're dead in the water.

  54. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They're out of touch with their market

    The same execs who selected that abortion of a ringtone as the winner, while manipulating the one ringtone which generated publicity out of the rankings. What a missed opportunity. What a typically Nokia way to handle it.

    It is they with whom the market is fed up. We're sick of being told what we want by Nokia. Apple and Android devices do so well because they provide a very flexible framework for consumers to slot into to suit their needs.

    Wake up Nokia. Or if you must continue to slaughter yourselves, for fucks sake do it quietly.

  55. Avatar of They
    Thumb Down

    What a tit.

    Winpho is ruddy awful. I hate facebook and tw@tter, I don't want a massive icon everytime I open the phone telling me it exists and you can't remove them as everyone has social networks right??? I like to alter the UI to my way of doing things, how I like it and Android lets you.

    Now my XBOX has gone the same way with ruddy great squares everywhere making it even more complicated to simply do what I wanted to do. Instead of "Right right right, down, play. It is right, up right, down, oh wait no, left up up across, right, is it? Erm, think... is it in music, no games... Hang on. Left left left down left and play. Oh wrong one now I get some god awful shop. Wait for the flash animation to clear.... Keep waiting.... Go back... up up up up left left..." and so on.

    "Lack of security." Says a man punting an OS whose heritage is one of two critical requirements, the reboot and the AV. Both are not very good on a phone.

  56. john 19
    Linux

    "lack of security in android"

    May I remind that in windows phones it is enough to receive a malicious sms to brick the sms service? hahaha

  57. Ian Ringrose

    A good third place is enough in a growing market to make lots of money...

    A few points…

    Everybody that uses Xbox will within a few months feel at home with the WP UI – do not under estimate the effect of this when someone sees a phone in a shop that “feel” right.

    You can’t get an iPhone with a keyboard.

    The Android market is a big mess with updates and every phone model / network running a different version with different UIs.

    So it is very possible that Nokia can take a good 3rd place with the WP – third place is good enough in a growing market to make lots of money. The next generation of phone buyers and third-world users are not a hooked on the iPhone as current phone buyers, so in the long term apple may not win.

  58. john 19

    It is good to make statements but you need to back them up. Nokia exec didn't reference any research to back his statements. I suspect that it is not the fashion minded people but nokia who is fed up with the iphone and android. Nokia has seen huge decline in sales having made the questionable decision of adopting windows phone instead of the industry leader android. There is still time to catch up with the industry but I am affraid that this will involve reversing that desicion. Trying to create a nice shaped phone based on windows crap is not the solution!

    1. BitDr

      Agreed...

      No research given, just words.

      Nokia was being run by an Ex-Microsoft Exec. It would seem that rather than do the real work of turning the company around he simply handed it to Redmond.

  59. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Blowing smoke without there being a fire....

    Perhaps this is an attempt to destabilize the competition by distracting them with a non-existent carrot.

    Target market: "jaded kids"

    That Nokia has identified this market does not do anything to lend it an air of validity.

    So youth are "pretty much fed up" with the offerings from Apple or with Android devices, what is the evidence of this? The stunningly huge sales volumes of Windows or Nokia phones? Perhaps it is the huge inroads RIM is making into the market? No?

    According to Gartner, in 2011 "Android's share of the worldwide smartphone market was 52.3% for Q3, double what it was a year ago" certainly not an indication that "jaded kids" are a huge demographic, which is not to say that they should be ignored. For this segment freedom of expression just might be very important, and if the open Android platform has anything, it has freedom, some may think too much freedom.

    I see they worked in the fear factor twice in one sentence!

    "many are not happy with the complexity of Android and the lack of security."

    Paint the competition as "complex" then make noises about security issues. Insulting your target market helps sell your product only when the marks don't realize that you think of them as stupid. The cats out of the bag now though isn't it.

    The attempt at painting the competition as dull is hilarious, what would Nokia do to improve on a touch-screen? I know, they would eliminate it entirely and use buttons! Or perhaps both lots of buttons AND a touch screen... yeah, that would be SO much better.

    As for security, me thinks the security firms are seeing their market vanish. Who moved their cheese? Google and Apple! With Android the onus is on the user to give permission for software to be installed. Installing an alarm clock that requires full Internet access, blue-tooth access, location tracking, and the ability to read the phone state and identity just might be a bad idea.

    The iPhone appsphere is guarded by Big Brother Apple, who vets applications to 'keep you safe', but also controls what you can access, do and to some extent, see (flash) with your device. None of this means there can be no bad applications, all it means is that applications are sanctioned by Apple. The quality of these would depend on the corporation and their policies (i.e. subject to change).

    So Android users pay for their freedom by requiring they exercise thought and good judgement, Apple users put their faith in, well, Apple. Enough said about that topic.

    He goes on to claim that "the market place is extremely crowded", um,... yeah, there's three real contenders, the iPhone, Android, and to a lesser degree, RIM (blackberry). The last time I looked it took more than two or three to make a crowd. Perhaps he is talking about the number of manufacturers of Android Phones, then by that logic the PC operating system market is extremely crowded, what with all the different makers putting Windows on machines by default.

    Nokia has become a MS bi... umm... "plaything" (to use a more family-friendly word), devoid of innovation (I really liked their N810, I have one sitting on my desk), they seem to be heading down the same trail that Palm (you remember them) took. That trail leads to the history pages, where they can join the other companies that Redmond 'helped' out.

  60. GoingGoingGone
    Facepalm

    Sea of Sameness

    Nokia must be pretty pleased where they stand now in that 'sea of sameness'. Seeing a Nokia smartphone in the wild, let alone one used as such, is as rare as spotting a topless nun.

  61. garblux

    The new Nokia phones look good. what people are fed up with is phones with no expansion slots and non replaceable batteries.

  62. Rex Alfie Lee
    Gimp

    Bullshit...

    "Getting bored with Android", what a load of self-serving crap. Android is forging ahead. Apple has stagnated but no-one wants a Windows phone with its cartoon-like, made for morons GUI. It's a hideous GUI. It looks like something a child developed.

    Nokia used to be a great company but now they're a Windows has-been. If they continued to focus on MeeGo then they'd have a chance but with Windows they will surely die...

  63. accountant
    Facepalm

    Android is the least worst option

    For a company running Google Apps for Business, Android is the only workable mobile comms tools.

    Blackberry Enterprise Solution is by far the most excellent email tool, because of the outstanding encryption and compression that means a really low data tariff, even when roaming.

    But BES has no means of delegating internet access control to the network or handset, so all internet traffic goes through BES and thus screws up websites. Corporate sites will be HTTPS, so guess what BES does? Yep: blocks it. HTTPS = dangerous, apparently. The admins need to approve their own websites in BES.... crazy.

    iPhones are a menace. They are a real security threat, because you can activate an iPhone on your Business Gmail account without ever declaring that you have done so. So your company cannot see where its data is being stored. Therefore, the company cannot protect the data if you or your handset go AWOL. Yet the company remains responsible for the data. Regulators need to make money themselves nowadays, they won't hesitate to prosecute a company that chose to use a system that it could not configure to prevent employees doing what the system was designed to do... Strangely, Apple seems quite happy to sue anybody to "protect" its intellectual property, yet to hell with the people who pay its customers, or its own public profile... To me, that makes them untrustworthy in any business relationship.

    Nokia is no-where to be seen in this market. The only space that's left is to comply with enterprise security policies (preferably ones that exist, we're not installing yet another enterprise solution for yet another poxy handheld device).

    Windows Mobile? Forget it: we have enough problems on Windows Desktops, and mobile devices bring their own problems that keep people locked into non-jobs for days at a time. Windows Mobile just sounds like an excuse to convert a non-job into a non-career.

    Meanwhile, the telcos have many smokes and mirrors to blame their own shoddy network failings on other parties' devices.

    So much for the Information Age. We're going backwards!

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