PC World parent awaits FTSE 100 relegation

Lost Sale Due to Vista...

Early this year, I needed a new laptop, so I went into PC World to see what they had to offer. All the "on-shelf" models came with Vista, so I asked a friendly-looking staff member if it was possible to get one of a particular model with XP instead. "Nope, sorry" says she. I was the third person to ask for XP that day, but they weren't able to sell with XP any more.

So PC World were thus without a £1,200 sale, and had one more laptop to keep on the pile of surplus stock. Nice to know I made my little contribution towards toppling them out of the 100. =:-)

rise and fall

Its bound to happen every few years, that pc growth will slow

the industry hopes for the majority of users to upgrade every 2-3 years if not more often

the reality is, that not every home pc user needs blistering game play or even dvd/hddvd/blu-ray playback

so their pc is more likely to last along the lines of a tv 5-7 years

clinging desperately to failing high-street retail markets is also a factor however, their overheads are just too high, so the prices naturally are less competitive.

you dont need pcworld AND currys, just keep currys as of the three brand names its the one with least bad press in the past.

anyway thats my 2c

time for shop staff to retrain to work in the call centres of online sellers.

I blame...

Staff who spend all their time pestering you to buy overpriced insurance AFTER you've agreed to purchase one of the loss-leading bargains they have rather than spend their time helping the rest of the punters. Oh - and their wierd 3-tier pricing structure. PCWorld-Business, PCW "Internet Prices to Take Home Today" and PCW store prices. Often wildly differing (yes, inc. VAT) for the same product.

Maybe people are getting wise?

About PC world selling cheap crap with huge markups to make them look like premium products.

I know alot of people that bought computers and laptops from PC world (despite my advice not to) only to find them broken within a few months. Someone I know bought a Packard Bell laptop and had to send it abroad no less than 9 times before the 1 year warranty expired.

If PC world are serious about making a profit they should sell decent products at realistic prices!

No surprise at all, really

I was in PC World looking for a laptop a few weeks ago.

For starters, every single one comes with Vista. So if you don't want Vista, that's too bad - you have to buy elsewhere.

Worse, though, is that half the machines were running a password-protected video (advertising Blu-ray or something), so you can't even see the desktop. So, you can't even type something into Notepad to see if the keyboard feels comfortable, or access Device Manager to see what hardware you're actually getting. How I'm supposed to compare and contrast different models to actually choose one is anyone's guess. (And no, I'm not going to spend hundreds of pounds based on advice from PC World staff).

So instead, I left, spent a while with a glass of wine and Google, and ordered one online. It arrived the next day, pre-installed with XP, and I know the hardware is compatible with Ubuntu.

I'll admit to buying the odd hard drive or network card from them, using the collect-in-store feature of their web site, but how they stay in business at all is a mystery to me.

I blame their prices

Despite their moronic claim 'Internet prices to take home today', these three chains are horrendously expensive. It isn't even because of shop overheads - compare them to somewhere like Maplin and you'll see no comparison. DSG need to face it - attempting a monopoly on high street electronics stores is no good when the customer has so much choice already.

I agree with the comment above about their adverts too. From a marketing perspective, they need to stop repeatedly claiming their prices are lowest, as it's farcical... they should instead make the most of their strongest points, that their stores (of each brand) are easily accessible to technophobes.

That's still no excuse for moronic adverts, though.

Fun with monopoly

This is the problem with have one OS with 95% dominance. We now have a situation where one company's rubbish product can negatively affect the whole PC industry. With a more heterogeneous OS market, the laptops not sold with Vista could be sold with another, better OS. But MS strongarms their partners into only selling their OS of choice, and now those partners are suffering. Hopefully, more of them will grow a pair and start offering XP or linux or... well thats about all the choice there is for PCs actually.

@ Lee Dowling

Having worked in a school IT department (and been chummy with the IT team at my senior school, as well as at my uni), I know that a common procedure when acquiring new hardware is to get however many you need of PCs/laptops all with identical spec, create a disk image on one (ignoring what ever cack/uncack was on there in the first place and using your trusty XP CD with the company's company-wide license key) then upload that image to the other machines.

Only concern might be checking what components are included to make sure you can get XP drivers for them, but I'd imagine most Vista-drivered parts are XP-drivered.

I nearly used the paris icon as it has a question mark in, but thought that would be insulting as no IT bod I know has a kind word to say about her so might feel insulted :)

People may be getting wise...

...but the retailers aren't acting like they are.

I was in a major retailer (it was Toys R Us, as it happens) and was distracted from the impressive array of Dr Who gubbins by a display of overpriced laptops.

One of these was running software which claimed to assist Mr Consumer to choose the best machine for his needs; it had an array of tickboxes representing possible applications, and a slider thing across the bottom to show what sort of machinery would best suit.

Ticking "Browsing Internet" and "Instant Messaging" together (with no other options, mind...) raised the recommended processor from Centrino to Core Duo.

I mean, it's patently ridiculous. I know everyone here will understand this(and I know at least half of you are preparing a "Well, if they use Vista that's about right" one-liner and I applaud those of you, like me*, who resisted the urge...) but one can only assume that the world is largely populated by trusting folks who'll be utterly taken in by this lie. And it IS a lie; let's not mince words...

* Bugger.

One point in PC World's favour.

All the ones near me have automatic sliding doors that open for you - this is vital because no-one with enough technical expertise to work-out how to use a manual door would be seen dead setting foot in the place.

Maybe consumers are getting smart?

- and wising up to the fact that laptops are not the portable equivalent of a desktop.

Nah - probably just bored with the whole shiny new gadget thing for a while - iPhone exhaustion has set in. The inability of manufacturers to settle around any sort of understandable standards in the domestic market will no doubt piss off many of Joe public too. As will the need for an endless array of peripherals to actually do anyhint useful

"This laptop does everything - You want to do what? - you just need this extra bit with its own power line to do that really basic thing"

My most recent PC world story

"Do you have a crossover in a shorther length than 10m"

"Yeah - there's a 3m"

"Thats a standard network cable"

"Its the same thing"

They have cheap big hard drives though and you get the occassional good deal on other bits of kit

High Overheads, High Prices, non-tech staff.

Title says it all really.

More and more people are getting tech-savvy and realising they can get better gear at lower prices elsewhere.

Not surprised really.

where in the world?

PC World - where you'll be charge £18-99 for a fifty pence USB cable, or £120 for a £30 hard drive, or a tenner for a worthless mouse mat.

Believe it or not - they charge £30 for doing a system restore for you instore if you bring your kit in; £30 for something you can do yourself in a minute. Wish I could get away with charging their prices.

Bah, I'm off to do some IT research on Paris Hilton!

Stop selling unusable laptops!!!

Celeron processor, 512mb ram, 40gb drive... Translates to

This laptop with 17" screen, and Vista home premium laptop only £399...

People are (hopefully) wising up to it now..

PC World Story

Customer (to PC World bod): What's the difference between a patch cable and a network cable ?

PC World Bod: A patch cable can only be used in a computer (server) room, and a network cable can only be used to connect a computer to a network point. They are very different sir.

Just think, if it wasn't for PC World us IT "professionals" wouldn't have anyone to mock...

Downgrading to XP

If I remember correctly, if you buy a PC (or laptop) with Vista Business or Vista Ultimate you can legally replace Vista with XP Pro. I think the official line from Microsoft is that the manufacturer of the hardware should provide a Windows XP Recovery CD but I doubt in all cases that would happen.

Sods law too you'd probably have to pay extra for the Business or Ultimate versions anyway.

I'm not surprised about the sales of new machines going down though. I mean most people I know (a couple of which work in IT) are still running machines with Pentium 4 2.4GHz or Athlon XP 2000+ CPU's in them and they work fine. Heck, I'm only upgrading my 3 year old Athlon 64 3000+ because the motherboard died (2nd motherboard in 3 years due to power surges) and even my upgrade will probably only be a cheapo Athlon X2 or Pentium Duo which will be running Ubuntu 7.10.

Rob

pcworld has its place

pcworld has its place if you need something quick

but whos going to waste their money buying a hard disk there? if you want something just as low quality there is ebay and iots usualy half price.

oh so the computer comes with vista, big deal, theres nothing wrong with it! Its got nothing to do with PC sales.

most of the thickos that goto PCworld to buy a computer dont even know what Vista is and they arent going to object on that basis!

Perhaps people have wised up to the fact they can get a far better service at lower prices elsewhere!

Tiny computer stores > warehouses

Just like most of everyone here (I hope), I build my own computer and shop between 4 stores to get the best price on each part. There is one store near me though that I wish there was more of. It's a small shop in one of those buisness office complexes where each section gets x amount of space. The guy who owns it has two and has random parts and computers for "fallen off the truck" prices. A 2.2 GHz computer with 512 ram is only $220, IBM thinkpads for only $300, and really really old machines lying around with their 5 and a half inch floppys. You have to use concious effort not to drool. I got a 24 port Cisco switch for $32 bucks, and it was in great condition. I just wish there were more tiny stores like that, than the huge warehouses of overpriced sh!t.

The reason, their shite after service support

My mates PC (sorry people it was a Packard Hell, trust me not my choice) was running slower that a sleeping snail (yes I know thats normal for a Packard Hell). Remember they paid £200 for an extended warranty.....noobs

It was running hot, 87 degrees in the BIOS, and the usual hiss as my damp fingers touched the heatsink. So I (they had rang and claimed nothing was wrong after 10 minutes at 75p per min) rang them:

(PCST = PC Servicecall Tosser)

PCST: Usual blarb

Me: The PCs CPU is overheating

PCST: How do you know that

Me: The BIOS CPU temp is 87 deg C.

PCST: Thats perfectly normal sir, those processors usually run a little warm.

Me: A little warm, thats outside of the normal operating range.

PCST: How do you know that

Me: Looked on the internet

PCST: But how could you if the computer is not working

Me: I used another PC

PCST: Silence..........Silence......I have spoken to my manager and he says that 87 deg C is normal, so as 'I' said there is nothing wrong.

At this point I wish I had a gun

Me: The chip manufacturer gives a max temp of 75 deg C which is 'lower' than the 87 deg C which the PC is running at sitting in BIOS

PCST: But the BIOS could be wrong

Me: The heatsink is so hot water hissed

PCST: Aaaahh you have opened the case (very smugley) you have invalidated the warranry

Me: No I have not, as I have not replaced any of the parts inside, and trust me I am more than qualified to do so.

PCST: But opening the case invalided the warrenty

Me: No it has not

you can guess the next 5 mins. I ended up speaking to his manager and explained exactly what I had done. Eventually he backed down.

PCST: OK we will send an engineer around.

How I wish I was there when the engineer was there. He did replace the CPU......but

Next day my mate rang and told me that the computer was the same. I went round. The CPU was now running in the 90's and the heatsink was even hotter. So with my mates permission I waited for the heatsink to cool down and carefully removed the heatsink.........guess what.....the stupid wanker of an engineer had replaced the CPU WITHOUT Heat SInk Paste. The damn thing had got so hot there was heat damage to the motherboard.

After another 10 minutes on the phone argueing with the PCST, I gave up, took my mate his computer and the receipt to PC World and demanded a new PC a repair (Motherboard, CPU and Power Supply) or money back.

Because I had opened it to find the cause, they claimed that I had removed the heat sink paste.......

I shouted as loud as I could what the PC world Experience was like, especially their lack of support with the expensive insurance. The manager asked the Security Guard to do something and he just said that I was not being Violent, just voicing an opinion and would be in breach of my human rights.

Lets just say the manager repaired the computer for free, as not only did I upset him, but half the prospective customers walked out. Oh and my mate sucessfully claimed every penny of his phone calls back as well

Its not what you know, just how loud you can tell people. Stop people spending money and they will be your bestist friend

pcw

Everytime i go in pcw is to try out a bit of hardware, then return it a week later. during that time i have ordered the item 20% cheaper online and get a full refund from pcw after i got the one from the internet!

Before they started all this "internet prices to take home today" rubbish, the shop and internet price was 2 completely different things. several times I've gone in there to find the manager refusing to sell us the item at the internet price and stated if they dont sell it to me at that price, i'll buy it online. so i did.

it's shocking when maplin sometimes come up cheaper than pcw, yet i think maplin are rip off prices at best. last think i got was the other month they were doing them 500gb externals for 75 quid, maplin couldnt match the price/space. remember people haggle, if there's another high street comp shop nearly selling cheaper!

the insurance is normally something silly like 20-30% of the price of the item, but they've now changed to the pay monthly option. been paying 13.99 each month now for my laptop "hp" if it fails within the next 2-4 years, i'll be expecting no fuss from them since i pay that each month.

good to see them disappear off the ftse 100, hopefully make them realise if they offer good prices/service. people pay come back.

Grammar

On one hand I wouldn't mind if they went bust and everyone caught herpes at the staffs' closing down party, but that's still no excuse for splitting the infinitive. They're set to tumble spectacularly, not "spectacularly tumble". Didn't you even do Latin at school?

@ Mike Stephens

"They gave me Office and Norton 360 for £100 extra."

So they saw you coming, then. MS Office, OK, maybe; but you actually *paid* for Norton?!?

PC World

@ Andrew Brooks

"Celeron processor, 512mb ram, 40gb drive... Translates to

This laptop with 17" screen, and Vista home premium laptop only £399...

People are (hopefully) wising up to it now.."

You were lucky!! I have seen the same laptop sold to a customer with 256MB RAM and Vista!!! You can probally imagine what that was like in use!!

Most of that overstock of laptops are underpowered for XP, and then they try and jam Vista on it. Hopeless.

As to "Office and Norton 360 for £100"... that probally translates to "Office for students" illegally sold to a non-student. And Norton 360 just kills your PC as it is so bloated and the cover it gives is patchy at best.

Of course - that aformentioned 256MB Celery also had Norton on it... probally eating all the 256MB just to run the silly interface.

For gods sake

Sorry after reading this I think maybe some of you are ignorant, stupid or both. For my business I wanted 5 XP Pro based ptops. So I walked into my local PC World in Swindon and asked for them a helpful sale guys guy asked me if I was buying for business as I need XPP 30 minutes later I had bought said laptops with no hard sell on insurance they were HP and I was offered the relevant HP carepack and ordered them as well. Next day the laptops turned up one of them happened to be faulty (no fault of PC World) I rang the guy that sold them to me 30 mins later he rang me back told me a replacement was on the way and the faulty one would be collected the next day and it was. On top of this the pricing was cheaper than Dabs and other etailers and I had telephone contact on top.

So to the person on here who wants to downgrade to Vista why dont you just buy a laptop with XP on instead. Yea sure they are expensive on somethings like anyome is, but they do offer a price promise on the leading websites i.e ebuyer, play, amazon, dabs etc And also they will give you back 10% of the difference as well.

Why the quibble over different pricing structures ever bought vehicles for your company, then you will know that most garages offer better prices to volume customers. I would imagine that not many personal customers buy 5 laptops at a time.

What also irks me on here is how personal you all seem to be towards the staff whatever your beef is with PC World there is no need to be rude to the staff, they are just doing their job. Ok so some of them may not know everything or be poorly trained. Try feeding this back instead of being rude and personal after all I am sure that like everyone your not perfect either.

@ anyone

Okay. I've just left PCW and I only worked there because I had little choice. They even took money off my final pay packet for holiday . . . . . . . In common with other retailers they pay just above min. wage £5.62 an hour. So, where do you think they are going to get anyone with any IT knowledge from? Why are you bothering bitching about the place when you don't even bother buying anything from there? Okay, as a company DSGi sucks - clueless, but some poor bastards have little choice but to work there. Hey, it's a surprise that the majority of staff can actually converse in your language - possibly English. The buying at the company has been woeful - too many laptops at £500+ when the market has clearly gone £500 or less. Add to that the stationery fiasco . . . . If only John Lewis was a PLC - imagine what its shares would be doing now. PCW has relied on its monopoly for too long and now it's going to pay the price for its complacence. Unfortunately many dedicated, hard-working and capable staff might be looking for work in the New Year if it all goes pear-shaped. The useless tossers will probably drift from retail job to retail job and will appear impervious to the kind of abuse which some of you will aim at them. Good luck to you if you expect to be able to buy anything for a PC in a shop in the not too distant future.

Where's the IT angle

PC World makes (made) its money getting commission from flogging useless warranties and pushing high priced finance deals with PPI.

There have been some high profile campaigns about these issues and it is probably the public wising up to these rather than any IT related issue that has really hit them.

Penguin icon because I think it is cute.

PC World

OK, I can understand that PC World hires schoolchildren to staff it's stores. I suspect most of us have had an after school job at some point and it's good to have a bit of extra cash.

What PC World should have (and doesn't, at least in Milton Keynes,) is some techies on hand to back up these kids if a customer has a difficult question. At least then they could have some semblance of 'expert knowledge'.

While I'm PC World bashing, I have bought three items from them in the last year - a wireless router, a graphics card (which was massively overpriced, but I was desperate cause I'm a geeky gamer), and a monitor. Every single one was faulty. I will never buy anything from there again.

I chose Paris because I'm just trying to fit in with the rest of you.

Paris HIlton

nearly used the paris icon as it has a question mark in, but thought that would be insulting as no IT bod I know has a kind word to say about her so....

Nice Arse???

@ Andy Gibson

hahaha you're so funny. No wonder you're a bit hitter in the IT industry.