back to article Forget about those pesky closures, Windows 10 has an important message for you

Welcome to another instalment of The Register's occasional series reminding IT professionals to check their public facing orifices. Today's bork comes from purveyor of flatpack furniture and specialists in cashdesk queuing, IKEA. No stranger to unhappy digital signage, the homeware giant has form when it comes to not giving …

  1. Warm Braw Silver badge

    The long, dark teatime of the next few months

    There wasn't even any tea in the supermarket the other day. Or milk.

    Perhaps Ikea should concentrate on delivering meatballs for the duration.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: The long, dark teatime of the next few months

      "There wasn't even any tea in the supermarket the other day. Or milk."

      I'm sure there were plenty of HOARDERS there to prevent anyone ELSE from having any before THEY get to it... (with nothing better to do than create shortages for EVERYONE ELSE).

      as for Win-10-nic on a kiosk - it's like a self-inflicted wound.

      got, Linux?

    2. Blackjack

      Re: The long, dark teatime of the next few months

      That's what happens when you do not stockpile powered milk/dried milk. I always keep a can around because one of the first things that disappears during emergencies like this is milk due to it's low shell life.

      And tea? You can stockpile it for years.

      1. rcxb Bronze badge

        Re: The long, dark teatime of the next few months

        Low shelf-life? On the shelf, milk doesn't even last for a day... In the refrigerator, you might get a week out of it. In the freezer, though, mlk will be just fine for months. Can't say I've tried keeping it for years at a time, personally. Just give it 3 days in the refrigerator to thaw out, and a good shake to ensure it stays homogenized.

        1. Blackjack

          Re: The long, dark teatime of the next few months

          There is long life milk that doesn't need cold, but gets bad if it gets exposed to too much heat.

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-temperature_processing

          You really never ever saw long life milk before? It has a shell life of about three months in average.

          1. rcxb Bronze badge

            Re: The long, dark teatime of the next few months

            I've tried UHT. It bears absolutely no resemblance to milk.

            1. Alligator

              Re: The long, dark teatime of the next few months

              Actually, it bears more resemblance to raw milk than pasteurized milk does.

              1. rcxb Bronze badge

                Re: The long, dark teatime of the next few months

                No it doesn't. I've spent a lot of time on dairy farms. Just try to make cheese out of your UHT and let me know how that goes.

        2. Anguilla

          Re: The long, dark teatime of the next few months

          Hmmm, here in "the Pearl of the Orient" (Hong Kong) there's no shortage of Milk !

          Sod the Tea! That's what my HK Chinese wife quaffs [without milk]

          I need instant Coffee, and that's easily acquired in the Supermarkets.

          As for MILK ----> there's plenty of that; I much prefer full cream "Jersey (UHT) milk" from 759 Shop, though they do also have skimmed *&* semi-skimmed milk!

          At little more than a Quid a Litre, they bring back long suppressed memories of drinking Jersey milk out of glass bottles back in UK in the 60's.

          That was shortly before I saw the sense of getting out of 'nose-diving' "Darling Harold" Wilson's misruled UK.

        3. Trigonoceps occipitalis

          Re: The long, dark teatime of the next few months

          There is always the dog milk.

    3. jmch Silver badge

      Re: The long, dark teatime of the next few months

      Odd that there wasn't any fresh milk, just as I found it odd there weren't any eggs at my supermarket last week. Even though hoarding comes from a place of panic and selfishness, and hoarders are basically antisocial assholes, at least I understand why people do it.

      But really, what's the point of hoarding perishable food?

      1. Blackjack

        Re: The long, dark teatime of the next few months

        Binge eating or having a big family so it doesn't last enough to expire.

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: The long, dark teatime of the next few months

          >or having a big family

          Expect a large number of babies in Nov~Dec..

      2. mistersaxon

        Re: The long, dark teatime of the next few months

        They cook and freeze it all apparently - which is why you also can't buy a freezer

  2. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Flame

    "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

    Just how much is enough ? Windows has long been the specialist in eating up the disk space, nice to see that the latest version is keeping with tradition.

    Microsoft has always considered that it has the entire disk to itself. Partitions ? Yeah, it's heard of them - there's even a built-in tool since, I think, Vista, but if you actually want your OS on one partition and your data on another it's a world of nuisance to get it done, and there are still parts that cannot be elsewhere than on C: - whether you like it or not.

    So yeah, dumping all the security updates on C:, what can possibly go wrong ?

    1. JimPoak
      Linux

      Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

      It,s been a long time since I used windows. All new Windows is a fallacy still updates in the same way. It creates a rollback point and keep previous updates until it has no more storage to download and install the updates. The assumption is that some one is there to clean up the crud so the kiosk can continue to function. I don't know how much storage they have but I'm sure it's not a lot. I do like the meatballs through.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

      "Just how much is enough ?"

      'all of it' plus 10% ?

      early on I noticed that Win-10-nic does NOT clean up after itself when it "up"dates/grades. And so you can expect it to grow like *THE BLOB*

      "Beware of The Blob it creeps, and leaps, and glides, and slides across the floor..." [Burt Bacharach, 1959 I think - theme song for the movie of the same name - "The Blob"]

      1. Def Silver badge

        Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

        Windows will remove old files and update-related downloads after a month. The time delay for the former is so that any unforeseen problems can be easily rolled back, and so that updates can be shared among other PCs on the network for the latter.

        If you don't want to wait, you can always run disk-cleanup manually.

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

          >Windows will remove old files and update-related downloads after a month.

          Bet when W10 is showing the error seen at Ikea, normal housekeeping procedures such as this get put on hold or even better actually get done but the update process displaying the message doesn't get updated to the new state. So when some poor engineer takes a look there is a practically empty HDD...

        2. bombastic bob Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

          "If you don't want to wait, you can always run disk-cleanup manually"

          how is this going to work well on a system that's in a kiosk?

          *crickets*

          and THAT is my point!!!

          "maintaining windows" is *NOT* my number one priority if I sell furniture...

          1. ChrisBedford

            Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

            how is this going to work well on a system that's in a kiosk?

            *crickets*

            Actually, no, it's going to work just fine, as long as you observe all the normal procedures for running a PC that is accessed by every Tom, Dick, and Harry.

          2. ChrisBedford

            Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

            how is this going to work well on a system that's in a kiosk?

            *crickets*

            You have conveniently ignored the previous line, "Windows deletes old versions 30 days after the update".

            So no, not "crickets". This is a classic example of Linux / Apple fanboi blind Windows-bashing when it's not justified. If the computer had been set up properly in the first place, this wouldn't have happened - so don't blame MS for this. Heaven knows, there are plenty perfectly valid criticisms - this just doesn't look like one of them.

            1. Splork
              FAIL

              Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

              @ChrisBedford

              I have a Windows 10 Pro VM that was running 1809 (yes, I avoid features updates as long as coitally possible). It occupied a scant 74GB on my host file system. One day as it inevitably comes to pass with WaaS, it updated to 1903. Then it occupies over 100GB*.

              Yes I ran Disk cleanup. Yes I chose to find and delete system files, restore points (who needs these with a VM that is backed up regularly) and previous installations. Now it occupies 95GB. That about 20GB for a feature upgrade I neither needed or wanted.

              * That means a minimum of about 25GB of storage overhead for windows 10 feature upgrades in addition to normal workload overhead All in all, windows 10 and its upgrade system is the worst anyone can imagine..

              1. Def Silver badge

                Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

                Not sure what you're doing there then. What else do you have installed on that VM?

                According to TreeSize, the top five folders (in fact the only folders of significant size) on the system drive of my main work PC at home (with Windows 10 1909) are:

                16.3GB - Users (Including >2GB of Vivaldi cache, and 1.3GB of emails.)

                16.2GB - Windows

                12.6GB - Program Files (x86) (over half of which is Visual Studio 2019 and the Windows SDK).

                10.7GB - Program Files

                7.1GB - ProgramData

                Plus a 16GB page file.

                1. Splork
                  Facepalm

                  Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

                  The point of my post is not the absolute size of the VM. Obviously it has several significant applications installed otherwise what would be the point of making it? Windows is an OS and an OS, by definition, is an infrastructure and environment that can support and run applications. I fail to see why some folks seem to believe that Windows 10 has any intrinsic value all by its lonesome.

                  The point of my post is that Windows 10 upgrades and many updates waste device resources that can be used instead to provide capabilities to the tasks we need to do on the bloody thing.

                  In my case, significant storage is used for content resources needed for content creation as well as engineering and development tools. And if I to a rough sum, your "at home" Windows PC has something like 77GB occupied by the page file and top 5 folders. That seems suspiciously similar to my VM PRIOR to the 1903 update. Note that it's been more than 30 days and I still can't purge the VM file system of the previous, 1803, installation.

                2. Terry 6 Silver badge

                  Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

                  Wondering why I was using so much space on my C: partition a couple of weeks ago I found that my entire photo partition was duplicated into the "Documents and settings" section, but hadn't been visible. At some point Windows must have decided that it belonged there.

                  That is not one of the 2 places that I keep data or backups on the machine, nor ever would. I have partitions for photo and video and their backups on a different partition and internal hdd and a pair of external ones too.

                  I've kept C: quite small just OS and software, to allow other partitions with data on my main drive - and the secondary drives are all for backups. So I did not appreciate finding that. I now have 160GB out of a 250GB partition free. It had been down to <80

    3. Terry 6 Silver badge

      Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

      Windows built in partitioning tool is almost completely useless. Fine for shrinking to create additional new partitions or removing whole partitions, but that's all. It will shrink the partition on only one side ( right I think) to create a new partition there.

      If you try to redistribute space it will only shrink on the one side or allow the adjacent partition to grow on the equivalent ( i.e. far) side where there is no space.

      So, in the screen shot I can't grow the left partition, having shrunk the right one ( should I need to)

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/yb1oumek4hpgmyy/hdd%20spaces.jpg?dl=0

      Of course I use 3rd party s/w instead.

      1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

        You're right. The only use for the built-in tool is to partition the disc during install. After that, you need Partition Master or some other tool that is capable of resizing and moving partitions, which Windows is totally incapable of.

    4. Mark #255
      WTF?

      Re: "Windows has long been the specialist "

      Windows cannot rest on its laurels, though.

      My Moto G5 was complaining of insufficient storage space, and suggested I could clear the cache of a few apps. One of the suggested apps was Messages (which sends and receives SMSs).

      Messages had amassed around 900MB of cache files, and I still can't fathom how or why it could store so much ephemera. I mean, the cache isn't sent/received messages, it's just, well, I don't know

      1. Jakester

        Re: "Windows has long been the specialist "

        Yes, cache eats up disk space, but the updates gobble it up. Periodically I will have to reinstall Windows 10 from scratch and reinstall applications because what I thought was a plentiful size partition for the install.

    5. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

      >Partitions ? Yeah, it's heard of them

      But only for its own comsumption.

      A clean install of W10 will happily create 4 partitions, only 1 of which is "C:\" and user accessible.

      It amused me that doing a vanila install from MS supplied media that W10 automatically creates an OEM recovery partition without giving me any option in the matter; furthermore I'm not aware of any OEM that provides a recovery partition image (and tools) that I can download and install into this reserved partition.

      1. Wayland Bronze badge

        Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

        You need to be careful what drives are attached when installing Windows 10, it will use all of them.

    6. AndrueC Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

      Oh iOS can be just as bad..possibly worse. I have a Mac Mini on my desk (purely for building Xamarin apps I hasten to add). Every now and then it will refuse to build or to apply an XCode update because it doesn't have enough space. When I investigate what is using all the space I find out that it's 'System'.

      Great.

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

      "640k ought to be enough for anybody" - so a senior person in Microsoft is supposed to have once said. :-P

    8. Anguilla

      Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

      "" "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

      Just how much is enough ? Windows has long been the specialist in eating up the disk space, nice to see that the latest version is keeping with tradition.

      Microsoft has always considered that it has the entire disk to itself.""

      Last year, here in Hong Kong, I acquired a Laptop from a far from far-thinking manufacturer (an Asus) sold to me by a young lady who said that she was going to UK.

      I was far from "chuffed" when I tried to update it on a 32GB SSD - It was totally unable to surrender the required SSD "space" - tho' I did much later discover that this "problem" could be got around by using an additional "Thumbdrive" of ~16GB.

      Farting around like that was not my forte, so I wiped the SSD clean & replaced the original W10 perversion with its latest creation which fitted okay.

      Not wanting to every be limited to *having* to reinstall sometime later, I promptly sold it - at a profit via a GeoExpat website here in the "Pearl of the Orient".

    9. hoola Bronze badge

      Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

      And how about all these "recovery" partitions are plonked onto devices that cannot be moved and if you image disks to different sizes totally bollox everything up.

      As soon as I see a "recovery" partition I just know that there will be trouble.

      1. Wayland Bronze badge

        Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

        Macruim Reflect seems to Clone W10 perfectly. I ignore those partitions.

        1. Terry 6 Silver badge

          Re: "not giving Windows 10 enough headroom"

          Me too. But you have to store the cloned partition.

          I have a separate internal hdd in my desktop, with a partition just for images, inc one sent from my laptop.

          And an external (swappable pair of USB) hdds for an extra copy

  3. HimInDoors
    Linux

    Not really their fault

    It isn't really Ikea's fault; they will only have followed Microsoft's own inadequate advice on the minimum specs required for Win10. You will remember that the first generation of netbooks had only 32GB of SSD storage that quickly filled up with bloat preventing updates from being applied. This kiosk is suffering from the same problem.

    1. CAPS LOCK Silver badge

      Hahaha, yes. 32 Jiggybites and not even an...

      ... SSD. They had, and have, an eMMC card. AND it's soldered on. Guess what your only alternative is, when the eMMC card is full?

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Not really their fault

      I easily fit a Linux image in 16Gb on a micro SD card with more than enough room to spare, with chromium, a web server, custom daemons, and short instructional videos, yotta yotta yotta, operating in 'kiosk mode' on a Raspberry Pi. Set it up properly [and config the browser to only check for updates after 1000 years have passed] and you're all set! Well, you DO have to code it properly...

      [and if you're worried about the GPL, you can try FreeBSD instead]

  4. Andytug

    That's the latest feature update - that tries to reserve 9GB of HD space for future updates!

    So will never install on a 32Gb eMMC machine where Win10 already uses more than 20Gb of the 28 or so Gb of actual usable space.

    I have moved everything possible to a USB stick (update folder, filesystem, etc)....no joy.

    Why do you write an update that even when the update cache is on a different disk insists on still trying to reserve it on C:?????

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If they have shut the stores what happens to all the people still lost in there that have been surviving on meatballs for months?

    1. Matthew Garrett

      We dont have that problem in Aberdeen

      The store is so small it takes you 10 min to go around it and does not serve meatballs in there micro cafe.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Ikeaspace ..... the truth is out there !!!!

      "If they have shut the stores what happens to all the people still lost in there that have been surviving on meatballs for months?"

      They are probably safer than we are ..... if they are lost in time & Ikeaspace, so is Covid-19, 'never the twain shall meet' !!!

      I would also bet that the Covid-19 drug treatment will be found growing on a discarded meatball, in a dim dark lonely corner of 'Ikeaspace' with all the missing 'odd socks', 'garden gnomes' and 'strange SCSI cables'.

      :) ;)

  6. tempemeaty

    Bloatosaurus OS

    I was just sitting here remembering how Microsoft Windows Bloatosaurus OS got when it was Vista.

    ⎝(。◁゚)⎠

  7. jonfr

    Windows is not for anyone

    I don't know when it happened but Windows is a disaster and has been for some time. Forget running a older version of Windows even if it is EOL because now Microsoft has turned off activation for anything older than Windows 7. I run software that doesn't work so well with Windows 10 just because and I have been using older versions until they just stopped working. I was able to move the software to Debian Linux and use Wine to run the windows programs that I am using. Turns out that works better than using Windows (even older versions).

    I don't think stores like IKEA and many others don't bother with updates on the machines that have their only job is at running one thing forever. They would be better to use Linux for such a task.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: Windows is not for anyone

      " They would be better to use Linux for such a task."

      YES!

    2. Wayland Bronze badge

      Re: Windows is not for anyone

      Simple Windows and DOS programs do work very well under WINE which is sort of Windows XP. I wish all Windows developers would check their programs work under WINE.

  8. That 9 Bit Guy
    Coffee/keyboard

    Just turn on metered connection. Stops that problem real quick.

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