back to article Oracle staff say Larry Ellison's fundraiser for Trump is against 'company ethics' – Oracle, ethics... what dimension have we fallen into?

Oracle chairman and CTO Larry Ellison is planning to hold a fundraiser at his California estate in Rancho Mirage on February 19 to help re-elect US President Donald Trump. Some of his morally outraged underlings have published an online petition to convince the billionaire to "uphold company ethics." The database giant, known …

  1. MachDiamond Silver badge

    Ummmm

    I've never found it a good tactic to tell the boss what to do. It can lead to an entry in an employee folder that contains the words "for cause".

    1. Omgwtfbbqtime
      Boffin

      Re: Ummmm

      I've never had a problem with telling my boss what to do, it is infact what I'm paid for.

      How I phrase it is another matter entirely...

      One reason I don't speak to him until after I've had coffee.

    2. The Man Who Fell To Earth
      FAIL

      Re: Ummmm

      In California and other "at will" employment States, only stupid bosses let people go "for cause" as then you need one. In an "at will" State, you lay people off instead and don't need a justification beyond "your services are no longer required".

      As a boss myself, it's a great way to get rid of low performers without having to waste inordinate amounts of time formally documenting the low performance.

      1. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge

        Re: Ummmm

        And to think, some people say US employment law isn't worker friendly...

        1. phuzz Silver badge

          Re: Ummmm

          They only charge just over cost price for the cardboard box they throw all your stuff into!

  2. Lorribot

    I do wonder how this company keeps going.

    They shaft their customer (even those that have no wish to be but get caught by swinging Java licencing), they shaft their employees, the belittle everyone and yet Larry keeps getting richer. There is nothing right about it. Or am I missing something like they have a really good product (hidden somewhere I know nothing about)?

    1. s2bu

      Oracle DB actually was (maybe still is?) a really good product. The problem is the way they gouged and treated their customers, a lot of them simply decided that it wasn’t worth hassle and they’d rather just use something not quite as good.

      One of their oldest tricks was to tell all features on by default if you used the GUI DB creation wizard, it would automatically enable all premium features. That way when they’d come to audit you, “oh look, you have this $100k feature enabled (but probably aren’t even actively using), and with pay charges we could take you to court for $500k. How about you just pay us $200k now and we’ll forget this indiscretion?”. Knowledgeable DBAs knew about this, which is one reason Oracle DBs got paid so much (that and only they really knew what the cryptic error messages REALLY meant!).

      1. Aitor 1 Silver badge

        Oracle

        It was a good product in 2000.

        Right now, it is obsolete, slow, etc.

        There are many reasons to still use it.. but it is way too expensive for what it is.. using a supported version of postgresql is way cheaper and you get more for your money... plus you can also design products not to use Oracle but rather way faster alternatives... if you know what you are doing.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Oracle

          using a supported version of postgresql is way cheaper and you get more for your money...

          So PostgreSQL can handle a 50TB database with 50K TPS?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Oracle

            > So PostgreSQL can handle a 50TB database with 50K TPS?

            In that case you should be using MongoDB. It's web scale!

          2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

            Re: Oracle

            As with all benchmarks, I suspect it depends upon your definition. Postgres can certainly handle 50 TB databases and in many circumstances 50 TPS. However, it is has historically been considered to be slower than Oracle or DB2 but things have changed a lot over the last few years.

            I remember a presentation by Swarm 64 about wanting to write around 32 MB/s into Postgres – okay you need an FPGA to do this but for people who need that kind of performance that's less of an issue that the Oracle licences might be.

            There's now a thriving support eco-system for Postgres with companies like Enterprise DB and Second Quadrant providing support for larger projects. Enterprise DB is specialised on Oracle to Postgres migrations including support for PL/SQL which can be a bigger hindrance to migration than anything else. But also now all the major "cloud" provides have good support for Postgres so scaling is less daunting than it used to be.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Oracle

              It's hard to compare, too, since Oracle will sue you if you try to publish benchmark results for their database.

    2. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge

      Sounds like the Whitehouse.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If you don't like the ethics of a company

    In reality, you're the problem.

    Sad but true.

    Time to get a new job.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I though Ethics

    was a county in the South East of England, nothing to do with the USA.

    (puts his false teeth back in again).

    1. MyffyW Silver badge

      Re: I though Ethics

      I thought he was the onetime sweetheart of Queen Lizzie I

  5. herman Silver badge
    WTF?

    You have (the right) to remain silent

    What happened to the US democracy and freedom of speech? It appears that according to the mainstream press only certain loud mouth parts of the population have those rights and the rest have to remain silent. I'm sorry, but it isn't supposed to work that way.

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Re: You have (the right) to remain silent

      Freedom of speech means that you have the right to your political and religious views and cannot be pursued for them by the government.

      It does not mean that you have the right to say anything you want, nor do you have the right to do so anywhere you please.

      1. Benson's Cycle

        Re: You have (the right) to remain silent

        You appear not to be familiar with the rulings of the Supreme Court.

        1. SolidSquid

          Re: You have (the right) to remain silent

          Actually this is pretty much on the money. The first amendment protects speech from the government, but unless it puts you in a protected class (and even then usually within a narrow definition) it doesn't protect you from actions by private entities in response to what you say.

          In this case they're arguing his comments violate his employment contract at the company by going against the ethics standards, which if true would make it entirely legal for the company to take action against him (either internal disciplinary action or legal action if that isn't possible for some reason)

          1. SundogUK Silver badge

            Re: You have (the right) to remain silent

            I'm pretty certain interfering in an employees politics would be actionable.

            1. phuzz Silver badge

              Re: You have (the right) to remain silent

              It sounds like he's using his own money, and doing it in his own time, so it's really nothing to do with his employer.

              Of course, if he did something like, (eg), using the company private jet to fly out there, that would be a different matter.

              If your boss wants to be a scumbag on his own time, there's nothing you can do. Except quit and go work for someone you do respect of course.

      2. SundogUK Silver badge

        Re: You have (the right) to remain silent

        You appear to be completely missing the point. Oracle employees have absolutely no right to determine what Ellison says and Ellison is free to say what he likes and support who he likes, as long as he isn't breaking any very specific legal exceptions (shouting fire in a crowded theater etc...) Nobody is obliged to listen to him of course.

        1. RegW

          Re: You have (the right) to remain silent

          I think we are all missing the point here. It's not about freedom of speech. This is about not doing something you told everyone you're not going to do (in your code of ethics).

          However, on skimming though the document, it doesn't actually seem to prohibit what he is doing. It bands pressuring someone to vote a particular way or to contribute to a cause. You can't use company resources without running it past the legal department. You can't do politics on company time or expenses. You can't bribe a politician to win a contract.

          So unless, I'm missing something, or Larry hasn't told his legal team - he is probably in the clear.

          1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

            Re: You have (the right) to remain silent

            on skimming though the [code of ethics], it doesn't actually seem to prohibit what he is doing

            Irrelevant, since that's not the petitioners' position anyway.

        2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: You have (the right) to remain silent

          Oracle employees have absolutely no right to determine what Ellison says

          Is anyone claiming otherwise? Certainly the petition doesn't.

          The petition claims that Ellison's actions conflict with the Oracle code of ethics. They don't say that the CoE governs, or should govern, Ellison's actions here; they say his actions "[do] not affirm" the principles of the CoE. The implication (the warrant, in Toulmin's terminology) is that Ellison, as chair and CTO of Oracle, should conduct his public personal business in agreement with his company's CoE, as a sign of good faith.

          There's also an explicit claim that Ellison's position damages Oracle by opposing social goods which Oracle has publicly (through the CoE) claimed are important to the firm.

          It's really not a difficult argument to understand, and I am tempted to regard the misinterpretations of it by some commentators as willful.

    2. Yes Me Silver badge
      Headmaster

      Re: You have (the right) to remain silent

      The way it works in the US is that your freedom of speech is multiplied up by the number of millions of dollars you are willing to spend on airing your laudable or obnoxious ideas. As I understand it that has been confirmed by the Supreme Court: spending millions to support a particular politician is part of your freedom of speech. If you don't have millions to spend on TV ads, you remain fully entitled to announce in your local bar that you hate Donald. Good luck with that.

      1. Snake Silver badge
        Headmaster

        Re: You have (the right) to remain silent

        It's "you hate THE Donald.". The Great Orange Twat has always been called that in his 'home' town of NYC (who don't want him back), so please continue to use this grammatically correct identification.

        This public service message brought to you by Cheetos. Because we really don't want him either, but since he looks like us we've been stuck with him.

  6. Paul J Turner

    Did they change the meaning of an acronym again?

    "...LGBTQ and trans communities...". Double dipping?

    1. Blake St. Claire

      Re: Did they change the meaning of an acronym again?

      ""...LGBTQ and trans communities...". Double dipping?

      You have to cut the Department of Redundancies Department some slack.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Did they change the meaning of an acronym again?

        I saw a headline for a news story the other day "What it's like when your parents come out as LBGTQ" and I thought WTF? How many parents did this guy have to get the full set? Or were one or more of his parents multiple options within LGBTQ? Lazy journos perpetuate these sorts of errors then they become normalised,

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Did they change the meaning of an acronym again?

          Yeah, it's really great when other people make your business, their business.

          /s

    2. IGotOut

      Re: Did they change the meaning of an acronym again?

      You forgot the "+" that has to be tagged on.

      Soon the acronym will be so long it may as just have a "-" to say who isn't in the club

      Before the flames, I don't give a flying fuck about someone's gender / sexuality.

      Actually, can we add FF to it?

      1. Blane Bramble

        Re: Did they change the meaning of an acronym again?

        "Soon the acronym will be so long it may as just have a "-" to say who isn't in the club"

        You might be on to something there. Perhaps we should just refer to the "!S" community.

    3. Elledan

      Re: Did they change the meaning of an acronym again?

      And then they still managed to miss out the intersex community.

    4. SundogUK Silver badge

      Re: Did they change the meaning of an acronym again?

      No, just not very smart.

  7. A Non e-mouse Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Company Vs Personal

    Is this Oracle sponsoring this event or Larry personnaly?

    If it's Larry perosnnaly sponsoring this event, then what right do Oracle employees have telling him what to do on his day off?

    1. ST Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: Company Vs Personal

      > Is this Oracle sponsoring this event or Larry personally?

      It appears that it is indeed Larry's personal shindig, at his own Rancho Mirage (no idea where that is). So, Oracle employees have no say whatsoever in this.

      Ethics, shmetics. Corporate Code Of Ethics? Seriously?

      [ Cue in Silicon Valley: Tethics. ]

      Just like everyone else, Larry has the right to political freedom of speech. As disturbing as that may be.

      Disclaimer: I am not endorsing Larry Ellison's political views. Quite far from it.

      1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Company Vs Personal

        Oh, for fuck's sake. No one is saying Larry doesn't have freedom of speech. (Or of assembly, which is arguably more pertinent in this case.) Certainly the petitioners aren't saying that.

        1. ST Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: Company Vs Personal

          > No one is saying Larry doesn't have freedom of speech.

          Yes, they are saying exactly that when they are waving some Oracle Code Of Ethics document and using it to tell Larry he can't campaign or fundraise for Trump, because that's against company values.

          That is an attempt at restricting speech. It's the functional equivalent of saying I disagree with your political views, therefore you can't voice them.

    2. veti Silver badge

      Re: Company Vs Personal

      Clearly these employees need retraining, because - as well as losing the distinction between professional and private lives - they seem to be unfamiliar with Oracle's code of ethics.

      It lists "core values", and they don't include either "diversity" or "inclusiveness". The word "diversity" appears only in the context of non-discrimination in employment, and even then it's not at the level of a "core value". "Inclusiveness" doesn't appear at all.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I was amazed by the ethics training I had to do annually when I worked there

        I was amazed by the ethics training I had to do annually when I worked there. There was a lot of emphasis on telling people not to do things that almost nobody I've met would have considered reasonable in the first place. It did make me wonder what kind of people they recruited, but then I realized it was probably all about salespeople

    3. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Company Vs Personal

      This is Larry's personal pleasure, though the US Supreme Court did make a landmark decision a few years ago that effectively took the lid of donations to political campaigns. Meaning that the US political system is essentially a plutocracy and most US citizens seem happy with this. Lots of individuals, companies and lobbying organisations now regularly give to all (both) parties to make sure they get the legislation they wanted. Silicon Valley types are now for giving to the Democrats but you didn't see many of them complaining about Trump's cuts in corporation tax…

      1. Someone Else Silver badge

        Re: Company Vs Personal

        Meaning that the US political system is essentially a plutocracy and most US citizens seem happy with this

        Downvoted because of the "most US citizens seem happy with this" assertion, which is complete and utter bullshit. Most 1-percenters are happy with this, most proto-fascists are happy with this, most MAGATs are happy with this (so long as Cheetolini continues to suck money from the aforementioned two groups), but most US citizens most certainly aren't.

    4. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: Company Vs Personal

      what right do Oracle employees have telling him what to do on his day off?

      The same rights every US citizen has: freedom of speech and of the press. They can tell anyone pretty much anything.

      They have no right to compel him, but then they're not trying to. Read the petition if you can't grasp this concept. It's not hard.

  8. Marketing Hack Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Hey, I don't like Trump...

    But its really not one set of Oracle employees business to tell another set of Oracle employees what candidate those employees should back in the election. The last I saw, freedom of speech and association was still a thing.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hey, I don't like Trump...

      Then they are free to tell them they shouldn’t be doing it aren’t they.

      1. SundogUK Silver badge

        Re: Hey, I don't like Trump...

        They are asking for him to be fired if he doesn't conform. Not the same thing.

        1. JohnFen Silver badge

          Re: Hey, I don't like Trump...

          It's pretty much the same thing. Asking for someone else to do something is freedom of speech, too. I can ask literally anybody to do anything. They aren't going to (and don't have the power to) actually fire him. That would be a different matter entirely.

  9. NanoMeter

    I hate Donald J. Trump just as much as other haters do, but if 'Leisure Suit' Larry does this on his own time without the company involved, why should they care?

    1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

      Larry is the company. Whatever he does, the company's image is involved. So they care.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        "Larry is the company. Whatever he does, the company's image is involved. So they care."

        Most employment contracts will probably something about "bringing the company into disrepute" which can, in the right circumstances, can affect what you can do in your private or public life, eg if you are well known as an employee of a company, or wearing a company uniform, logo or ID while doing thing. Not that affects the people on the top floor of course.

        1. Woodnag

          Nope

          You have it in reverse for USA. Only the people on the top floor will have contracts, which spell out every term of employment, separation etc. It binds both ways.

          The minions don't have contracts, and can resign or be terminated without notice. That's what 'at will' means.

          In UK, full time employees expect a contract by right, and if a company doesn't issue it then the terms are normally the best an employee can wish for under challenge.

        2. eldakka Silver badge

          Most employment contracts will probably something about "bringing the company into disrepute"
          IANAL, however I would be stunned if that would apply to personal political support. You really think someone could be fired depending on the political party or person they have declared support for (as long as not done disruptively at work nor on work time nor using work resources, e.g. work provided discussion boards).

          I mean, if that was the case, if the media was conducting a post-poll interview and asking people who walk past "who did you support" and you answered, you could be fired.

      2. SundogUK Silver badge

        No he isn't.

    2. EricM

      Agree, Larry & Trump are quite a good fit, actually.

      At least in the way they treat employees and customers. But I also wonder how "ethics" might fit in that picture...

      1. Claverhouse Silver badge

        Re: Agree, Larry & Trump are quite a good fit, actually.

        I don't think Donald Trump is that bad.

        1. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
          IT Angle

          Re: Agree, Larry & Trump are quite a good fit, actually.

          Quote:

          I don't think Donald Trump is that bad.

          He wouldn't be if his gutless party stood up to him instead of lying on the floor kissing his feet.

          And I can understand the likes of larry and thesouthern rednecks voting for him.... but the christian right?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Agree, Larry & Trump are quite a good fit, actually.

            "...but the christian right"

            What's wrong with them wanting to be part of the mafia family?

            /s

          2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

            Re: "the christian right"

            Relax, it's just a label.

            Whilst there are christians who are on the right of politics, the group that self-identifies as "the christian right" is not christian in the eyes of pretty much every other adherent of that faith. It is more like the "German Democratic Republic" or the "Chinese Communist Party".

      2. Benson's Cycle

        Re: Agree, Larry & Trump are quite a good fit, actually.

        Those of Conan the Barbarian, I think.

    3. Fungus Bob Silver badge

      "I hate Donald J. Trump just as much as other haters do, but if 'Leisure Suit' Larry does this on his own time without the company involved, why should they care?"

      That's Donald MAGA and Larry Oracle. FTFY...

  10. Robert Grant Silver badge

    Hmm

    "We are disappointed that Oracle Founder and CTO Larry Ellison’s support of Donald Trump does not affirm Oracle’s core values of diversity, inclusiveness, and ethical business conduct," the petition says. "As Oracle employees, we must hold our leaders accountable for upholding their ethical responsibilities."

    1) Holding leaders accountable isn't the same as telling them what to do in their spare time

    2) Diversity doesn't mean "only voting for this candidate is okay"

    3) Trump's gross, but that doesn't invalidate the above

  11. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

    Why does Trump need a fund raiser anyway?

    Last time he pretended to be the self-funded billionaire candidate. Himself+family have made enough money in the last four years that he can actually be a self-funded billionaire candidate this time.

    Wall repairs may be expensive but Larry isn't Mexican so why is he paying?

  12. macjules Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and Twitter all have conduct codes

    And in all those cases the "conduct code" is more of a guide for how not to conduct your company.

    No great lover of American politics, but would there have been a similar outcry if Ellison had organised a fund-raiser for Sanders?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and Twitter all have conduct codes

      > would there have been a similar outcry if Ellison had organised a fund-raiser for Sanders?

      No, because Sanders is a nice guy.

      1. SundogUK Silver badge

        Re: Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and Twitter all have conduct codes

        I want some of what you're smoking.

    2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and Twitter all have conduct codes

      would there have been a similar outcry if Ellison had organised a fund-raiser for Sanders?

      Why does it matter?

      Some Oracle employees are exercising their freedoms of speech and of the press. Perhaps they would in some hypothetical other universe; perhaps they wouldn't.

  13. fishman

    Ethics

    I always thought that Oracle's ethics were summed up by "Greed is Good".

    1. Michael Habel
      Alert

      Re: Ethics

      And what prytell is bad about greed?

      1. Intractable Potsherd Silver badge

        Re: Ethics

        What is *good* about greed?

  14. IGotOut

    Next week's news..

    MS lose court case with Amazon over JEDI contact.

    Now awarded to Oracle.

  15. Rombizio

    I know I will be downvoted but....

    Trump is very entertaining to watch. And the Democrats are so deranged and crazy that the show is just hilarious. George Carlin was right. If you are born into this world you get a free ticket to a freak show. If you are born in US you get the front row seat. I think 4 more years of Trump would be awesome.

    1. beep54
      Flame

      Re: I know I will be downvoted but....

      FU. You don't have to live in the sh*t show.

      1. Chris G Silver badge

        Re: I know I will be downvoted but....

        In this particular shitshow, nobody is beyond the range of flying shit, so we all live in it.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I know I will be downvoted but....

          > no one is beyond the range

          of an education, a job, a house, a family!

          It has been an amazing time for all Americans, no matter what way racist & bigoted Socialists try to slice & dice them.

          1. Intractable Potsherd Silver badge

            Re: I know I will be downvoted but....

            "of an education, a job, a house, a family!

            It has been an amazing time for all Americans..."

            Citation needed. There are certainly a lot of Americans who *don't* think it has been an "amazing time", so you have some work to do in justifying your claim. (Or is it that people aren't real Americans if they disagree with you?)

      2. Michael Habel

        Re: I know I will be downvoted but....

        Says you.. Somebody who has thankfully no say in such matters... But, hay remind us how well Brexit has tanked for you again?

    2. whoseyourdaddy

      Re: I know I will be downvoted but....

      In 4 years, the US will be pulling ahead of China on environment pollution output.

      The UN and NATO will no longer be. If enemies of your country invade and overthrow your government, I'm pretty sure Trump will sit on his fat ass...

      and clap.

      ...unless it involves Saudi Arabia or Russia.

      1. SundogUK Silver badge

        Re: I know I will be downvoted but....

        "In 4 years, the US will be pulling ahead of China on environment pollution output."

        No they won't. The US is reducing it's carbon footprint faster than any other nation on earth.

        "If enemies of your country invade and overthrow your government, I'm pretty sure Trump will sit on his fat ass..."

        And? Why is it Americas problem if other countries invade each other?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I know I will be downvoted but....

          > The US is reducing it's carbon footprint faster than any other nation on earth.

          That must be a very recent achievement then, because the US is definitely mid-table over the period 1990-2015.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I know I will be downvoted but....

          @SundogUK

          re: "And? Why is it Americas problem if other countries invade each other?"

          Because they just won't be able to stop themselves interfering and no doubt sending many of their young men to an early grave".

          But hey, as long as it's not one of your young men, it's not a problem. Right?

      2. Michael Habel

        Re: I know I will be downvoted but....

        Well its damed if we do... (Get called the Worlds unwanted police man), and now according to you dammed if we dont... How about you get your crummy little Euro-nations to cough up the money owed to the US for protecting you the whole time instead?

        1. Intractable Potsherd Silver badge

          Re: I know I will be downvoted but....

          @Michael: time for your tablets and a nice nap now. You are clearly somewhat overwrought.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I know I will be downvoted but....

      FTR it's not a game :(

  16. Popofla

    God we're dumb

    Don't worry they all answer to our Chinese Communist Overloads. Like all the other corporate clones, Larry just do their bidding and trying to convince Trump will let up on his tariffs. The Chinese control all sides. Business is bought out by Chinese bribes and the culture mouths a bunch of slogans that undermine the culture. Our universities are heavily influenced by Chinese Communist sympathizers pushing their cultural revolution ideals (since they learn how effective it was at destroying their own civilization). Funny, how I don't see Chinese industry asking for open markets or their population demanding for open borders.

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: God we're dumb

      "Our universities are heavily influenced by Chinese Communist sympathizers pushing their cultural revolution ideals"

      Hoover just called from the 1950's....

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: God we're dumb

        Hoover just called from the 1950's....

        Tell him to suck it up.

      2. SundogUK Silver badge

        Re: God we're dumb

        It was McCarthy and he has been proved correct.

        1. Michael Habel

          Re: God we're dumb

          McCarthy had nothing to do with HUAC (The keys here beaing the H in HUAC standing for House), while Senator McCarthy was well a Senator DUH!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: God we're dumb

            McCarthy had nothing to do with HUAC

            Unsurprising, he died 12 years before it was setup.

            He did,however, preside over the same "reds under the bed" type of scare in the 40's and 50's, and it was his efforts which led to HUAC being created, and the whole ethos being called "McCarthyism".

      3. Mike Richards

        Re: God we're dumb

        'Hoover just called from the 1950's....'

        Tell him that hemlines are up this year and an off-the-shoulder look is always an eye-catcher.

      4. MJI Silver badge

        Re: God we're dumb

        That is so vacuumist.

        What is wrong with Dyson, Brazier or Grey?

  17. Elledan

    Good luck with that

    Consider the fact that we're talking about Oracle here, the company that has been known for time immortal to be a company so vile, so amoral and greed-driven that in comparison Microsoft and IBM at their worst appeared like choir boys. Of course dear ol' Larry would want to smooch up to his ol' boy Trump, because everything Trump does aligns perfectly fine with all that Oracle stands for: unbridled greed, tax cuts for the rich, and as few protections and rights for employees as possible.

    I wish these folk luck in their effort to change Larry's mind, but... they work at Oracle, I'm sorry to say.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ethics?

    If they had ethics they would never have created that dog shit taco application Peoplesoft, jack of all trades but master of none and pigeon holed into many a company adding absolutely zero value but maximum pain. I ask is it a HR application or an accounting package? I don't even think it knows itself.

    I'll see myself out thanks.

  19. boltar Silver badge

    Note to Oracle employees

    1) Oracle is not a democracy. You get told what to do in exchange for money. Don't like it? Leave.

    2) Like him or not (I do not) Ellison runs the company the way he wants as he's the CTO, chairman and owns $60 BILLION worth of Oracle stock.

    3) Corporations are not charities, they exist to make money. If Trump in office is a win for Oracle then Oracle will provides funds to aid Trumps re-election.

    HTH.

    1. Michael Habel

      Re: Note to Oracle employees

      Thank you... This guy gets it...

  20. McKrack

    "You need to think of Larry Ellison the way you think of a lawnmower. You don't anthropomorphize your lawnmower, the lawnmower just mows the lawn, you stick your hand in there and it'll chop it off, the end. You don't think 'oh, the lawnmower hates me' -- lawnmower doesn't give a shit about you, lawnmower can't hate you. Don't anthropomorphize the lawnmower. Don't fall into that trap about Oracle" - Bryan Cantrill

  21. Steve Knox
    Holmes

    This IS a Conundrum...

    More disgust for Ellison for his support of Trump, or more disgust for Trump for his association with Ellison?

    Whatever, it's the weekend and I'm feeling generous. More disgust all round!

  22. Lord Buddha

    Attempt to Curry Flavour Ahead of Supreme Court Ruling ?

    Now the Scrotus is hanging on the republican side, and republicans running scared of their Dictator-In-Chief, this seem like the most logical thing Larry could do.

    Let's see if this is to followed up by some of the turmeric man's tweets. After all, Larry is a great American and not nasty at all unlike Google who are run by some foreign sounding/looking guy... I mean, is he even legally in the USA ?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Attempt to Curry Flavour Ahead of Supreme Court Ruling ?

      > Attempt to Curry Flavour Ahead of Supreme Court Ruling ?

      I assume you are just rogan josh-ing?

  23. sense_amidst_madness

    Last time I checked Ellison was a private citizen and can do whatever the hell he wants on his own time. This isn't an Oracle sponsored event and these whiny fascist snowflakes have no business telling anyone what to do. Grow up.

    1. sabroni Silver badge

      Ooh, someone got triggered....

      You telling them they have no right to protest is exactly the same thing as them telling him not to hold the fundraiser. Can't you see that?

      1. baud Bronze badge

        They have no ground ask him not to do it as Oracle employees, since Larry is doing this on his own time, using his own funds.

        1. Just Enough Silver badge
          Boffin

          You have no ground to ask them not to do it, as a person on the internet, since they are doing this in their own time, using their own funds.

      2. SundogUK Silver badge

        They are specifically asking for him to be sacked for violating the Oracle code of conduct, so no, not the same thing.

  24. Stuart Halliday

    Well, that'll lose Oracle some Share price I hope.

    1. disgustedoftunbridgewells Silver badge

      Why? Do you think that the stock market is a petulant child?

      1. Paul Greavy

        According to the hourly news reports it certainly is.

        We must never, ever upset markets.

  25. Michael Habel

    Perhaps its time he moved his Company down to Texas, and leave the Bernie Bros. in Commifornia.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Outrageous,...

    The fact that a private citizen has the means and motivation to support their choice of political candidate is not a conflict of the ethical or moral policies of a business that they may be associated. And the employees, I'm sure, are welcome to secure alternative employment, at their earliest opportunity. Most successful corporations, aside from recommendations from a board for direction, are not generally democracies...

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    He doesn't own the company

    An awful lot of posters seem to be under the misapprehension that Larry 'owns' Oracle. Oracle is a corporation and owned by its shareholders. Larry is Executive Chairman and CTO, so he is, in a real sense an employee of the corporation, and presumably therefore should abide by the corporations code of ethics. He owns a big tranche of shares, but institutions hold more.

  28. Someone Else Silver badge

    It's the anti-stool

    Trump, Oracle, ethics. You can pick any two...and they can't simultaneously exist in this universe.

    No matter what, the stool falls over...

  29. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    What he does in private...

    So, Trumps a big asshole, and I don't think anyone should be fundraising for him.

    The recent (few years ago) situation with Chic-Fil-A, people argued against boycotting them for some political activities of their owners; but, in that case, the owners were direct owners, they were essentially commingling company funds to fund their political activities.

    In this case, Ellison is using his own money and his own property. The employees have a right to be unhappy about it, I don't think anyone should be raising money for Trump. But I also think he's entirely within his right to do so, and it's none of the company's business to tell him how to conduct himself when he's out of the office.

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