back to article Guess we have to do this the Huawei then: Verizon sued by Chinese giant for allegedly ripping off patented tech

Huawei and Verizon are squaring off in America over allegations of patent infringement and failed licensing deals. On Thursday, Huawei sued Verizon in two plaintiff-friendly courts, accusing the cellular giant of ripping off patents it holds on voice and data mobile networks. The lawsuits were filed on the same day in the …

  1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  2. Mark 85 Silver badge
    Pirate

    I'm shocked

    I just can't believe that a Chinese company is filing suit over IP theft by someone else. Sort of like a pirate crew taking umbrage.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'm shocked

      That said, this is a problem if you use IP law to stave off competition, at some point, someone is going to use that against you and it is evident that Huawei DOES have original developments. Logic dictates that if they copied from someone else they would not have the fastest 5G gear..

      That whole "make China follow IP law" thing is hypocritical anyway, the whole US industrial revolution was built on stealing IP left, right and centre so for them to balk at another country doing the exact same stinks a bit IMHO.

      1. Reg Reader 1 Bronze badge

        Re: I'm shocked

        Although you are correct it is a different world now than during the Industrial Revolution. The speed at which IP can be stolen and the ease of espionage over the Internet make IP theft so much faster and possibly easier than it ever was. Then there are differences in how IP is perceived in China versus the Western World as well how foreign companies are treated in each country.

        What my above statement boils down to is that Governments should have never let greedy Corps move manufacturing to lower cost centers. That stupidity is coming back to bite us even harder than it already has.

        1. Schultz Silver badge
          Stop

          Re: I'm shocked

          "it is a different world now than during the Industrial Revolution. The speed at which IP can be stolen and the ease of espionage over the Internet make IP theft so much faster and possibly easier than it ever was."

          --> But the speed with which technology is developed becomes obsolete also became faster so, if anything, the average (adjusted) value of a patent is probably lower now than during the industrial revolution.

          "Governments should have never let greedy Corps move manufacturing to lower cost centers"

          --> So you see no positives in the accelerated world economic growth of the past decades? How much of your own wealth would you give up to keep billions elsewhere in poverty? I know that humans' perceived wellbeing relies heavily on how they fare compared to others... But maybe the rational commenters in this forum might rise above such pettiness?

        2. Clunking Fist Bronze badge

          Re: I'm shocked

          "What my above statement boils down to is that Governments should have never let greedy Corps move manufacturing to lower cost centers. That stupidity is coming back to bite us even harder than it already has."

          So you agree with Trump and his stance on these matters? Careful there!

  3. HildyJ Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Not a hard choice

    While both companies are less (a lot less, equally lessest?) than admirable it sounds like Verizon was willing to negotiate until something stopped them (probably cost, although Trump can't be ruled out).

    Without knowing what Huawei was asking for in compensation it's hard to say who's the most unreasonable but the idea that Verizon should be able to ignore the licensing is absurd .

    It would be as if Netflix decided to continue to stream Disney movies after Disney cut them off.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    There seems to be some method in this madness.

  5. Barry Rueger Silver badge

    Big Bad Huawei!

    Looks like Verizon is banking on all of the anti - Huawei propaganda to let them avoid some costly licencing agreements.

    1. Venerable and Fragrant Wind of Change

      Re: Big Bad Huawei!

      Possible, but no more than that. The general tendency of US courts to rule in favour of US companies against foreigners could be more relevant.

      Or it could be that Verizon is innocent here. FFS, this is patents we're talking about!

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Big Bad Huawei!

        Also if you plan on arresting any representatives of the plaintiff as soon as they set foot in the country

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Prior art

    I have coauthored seven US patents in computing.

    As far as I know only six were filed.

    The USPTO are supposed to check for prior art.

    As far as I can tell, this happened because they apparently awarded exactly the same patent twice, with two different patent numbers. Two of the patent texts look identical to me. Of course once it moves from engineering to the legal team, you never see it again.

    However, I strongly suspect this proves that the checking for prior art isn't as strong as it could be.

    1. getHandle

      Re: Prior art

      "I strongly suspect this proves that the checking for prior art isn't as strong as it could be"

      And the award for understatement of the year goes to...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Prior art

        A second award for Stating The Bleedin' Obvious :).

    2. Warm Braw Silver badge

      Re: Prior art

      I am named on a few: my employer at the time clearly hoped that the claims were novel and patentable, but they seemed pretty mundane to me. Lawyers went away, wrote up the patents, found what they thought was prior art (without reference to the "inventors") and we were then told to "sign here". I think in the end only a couple were granted, but the company expired before the patents did.

      It did seem to be an extraordinarily expensive form of futility.

      1. quxinot Silver badge

        Re: Prior art

        >It did seem to be an extraordinarily expensive form of futility.

        Once you say "lawyers", you will find any situation can be described as expensive futility.

  7. Rameses Niblick the Third Kerplunk Kerplunk Whoops Where's My Thribble? Silver badge

    "Huawei’s real target is not Verizon; it is any country or company that defies it. The action lacks merit, and we look forward to vigorously defending ourselves."

    "Defies" as in "refuses to come to an agreement about using Huaweis patents"? And "company" as in, I'm guessing, Verizon? So, Verizon's position is that Huawei aren't taking this action to stop Verizon using their IP for nothing, but they are doing it because they want to target Verizon for using their IP for nothing? Thanks, that statement really backs up your position Verizon, well done.

  8. MrKrotos

    HAHAHAHAH!

    Hahahaha, hows it feel with the shoe on the other foot China?

    1. TimMaher Bronze badge
      Happy

      Re: HAHAHAHAH!

      Probably a bit uncomfortable, but they are still wearing the shoe.

      If it was someone else’s foot however...

  9. 2Blockchainz

    Verizon does something of value?

    Forgive me, can someone with more knowledge than myself explain how Verizon could have violated these Huawei patents?

    Verizon essentially doesn't make Telecom equipment, and are actively shifting to outsourced management and architecture of network infrastructure to REITs like American Tower and Crown Castle.

    Since Verizon is essentially a spectrum license holder and billing company, how could they have possibly violated these patents, which are primarily focused on network efficiency and performance?

    1. ExampleOne

      Re: Verizon does something of value?

      Usage of equipment that contains the patented technologies without a license is a form of license breach. Most such equipment would normally ship with appropriate licenses, and in any sane jurisdiction, a patent shield.

      1. Bitsminer
        Mushroom

        Re: Verizon does something of value?

        If the patents are referred to in an international standard, like 5G certainly is, then they should be licensed under FRAND policies of the standard -- not free, not unreasonable (terms), not discriminating, not refusable (*).

        Possibly this is a proxy war against Nokia or Samsung or even Ericsson. Whoever built Verizon's kit.

        (*)I am paraphrasing.

  10. boidsonly

    This is rich. The IP theft criminal Chinese are suing Verizon. Can't wait to see how this plays out.

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