back to article Will Asimov fix my doorbell? There should be a law about this

Greetings from civilisation, for one more day at least. After tonight, I will no longer be a European citizen but an immigrant of indeterminate status. Don't worry, this won't be a Brexit diatribe. I resigned myself to belonging to a pariah nation long ago, a realisation born from half a lifetime's accumulation of World Cup …

  1. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    "Brexit means we are at last freed to obey whatever the Americans instruct us to do"

    An instant classic !

    Oh, and congratulations on your French. You have impeccably captured the essence of the French mind when it comes to swearing, and the British :).

    1. ElectricPics

      Re: "Brexit means we are at last freed to obey whatever the Americans instruct us to do"

      Two down votes? Really?!

      1. Rol Silver badge

        Re: "Brexit means we are at last freed to obey whatever the Americans instruct us to do"

        I guess we have two Trump curious readers, not supporters I hasten to add, as this site is so loaded with qualified facts that they wouldn't be able to operate a mouse for all the vomiting and retching they'd be doing.

        1. Rol Silver badge

          Re: "Brexit means we are at last freed to obey whatever the Americans instruct us to do"

          I love the consistency of the voting. It's almost validation of the argument, as every topic that seeks to sleight The Donald has two down votes. Now if we correlate it with comments that slag Putin off, we might just see a trend.....

          ....two individuals, with sufficient ability to comprehend at least half of what is discussed on here, and a mission to subvert humanity, for a regular pay check from Blofeld or whatever Putin's alias is these days.

          1. Rol Silver badge

            Re: "Brexit means we are at last freed to obey whatever the Americans instruct us to do"

            You've got to ask yourself this though....

            Now that the political objectives have been met, will Blofeld continue to pay for your loyalty or seek a more cost effective and permanent solution?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "Brexit means we are at last freed to obey whatever the Americans instruct us to do"

      ""Brexit means we are at last freed to obey whatever the Americans instruct us to do"

      Hmmmm, actually, no, and quite the reverse actually. UK now officially belongs to Trumpistan.

  2. TimMaher Bronze badge
    Facepalm

    Nice Asimov.

    Now, how’s about a good Zelazny?

    Was Brexit the last short story in “All the sounds of fear”?

    1. tiggity Silver badge

      Re: Nice Asimov.

      upvote for the Harlan Ellison reference

    2. BillG
      Thumb Up

      Re: Nice Asimov.

      Now, how’s about a good Zelazny?

      Not necessary. As we all know, All Roads Lead to Amber.

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Nice Asimov.

        "All Roads Lead to Amber."

        Isn't that "Ember"

        Wait, that's Jeanne DuPrau. Nevermind.

    3. IceC0ld Silver badge

      Re: Nice Asimov.

      Don't worry, this won't be a Brexit diatribe.

      ah yes, the EU, I remember that as if it was yesterday ..........................

  3. alain williams Silver badge

    3 laws for AI

    Ah, crafted in a more innocent age when the general belief was that we all work together for a common good.

    Today is a post truth era where corporations (CEOs & their lackeys) & politicians will say whatever bollocks they think will bamboozle us to overlook the current heist that they are trying to pull off. AIs will do whatever their masters direct them to do; ie they will work to the benefit of the corporation or government that owns them, they will have scant regard to the harm that they will cause to the rest of us.

    This piece by a FT columnist is worth looking at.

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Re: 3 laws for AI

      The one I have trouble with is #2.

      "An AI must obey human commands..."

      (1) Ha ha ha ha!

      "Siri, Please set chill-out room lights to 50 per cent." ... ... ... ... "Playing 50 cent in children's bedroom"

      (2) All human commands? Should it do what the human says or what the human meant?

      I think... a story in my archival memory storage... was it called F.R.E.D.? About a robot that, on its first day in its new household, was instructed not to damage the flowers in the garden. And a few weeks later was instructed to cut the grass whilst the family went out for the day. When they returned they found it on hands and knees in the middle of the lawn in the pouring rain getting severely damaged by the soaking, and using a pair of scissors to carefully avoid all the daisies.

      1. JetSetJim Silver badge

        Re: 3 laws for AI

        > "Siri, Please set chill-out room lights to 50 per cent." ... ... ... ... "Playing 50 cent in children's bedroom"

        I prefer the Alexa "Digger Digger" incident

      2. Little Mouse

        Re: 3 laws for AI

        I don't remember that particular gardening story, but it's true that a recurring theme of Asimov's robot series was that the three laws didn't really work all that well

        Mr Raphan might have done well to actually read a few of them (or even watch the movie, heaven forfend) before suggesting that they might actually be a good idea.

        1. TRT Silver badge

          Re: 3 laws for AI

          It's doing my head in trying to find the source... I'm sure the robot was called F.R.E.D. which was also the name of the story. It was around the time, maybe 1976-1980, that I read the Brian Aldiss edited anthology "The Penguin Science Fiction Omibus" - the cover had a creepy ice cream sundae on it, and a book called "The Very Slow Time Machine" by Ian Watson which was an anthology, The Stainless Steel Rat series as well. But I think it was in a series of numbered books titled like "The Fourth -publishers name- Sci-Fi Collection" or "The -publishers name- Sci Fi Short Stories Volume ..."

          Penguin? Armada? Keep thinking "Fox" for some reason. Could have been Armada... I see a ship with black sails on a white background on the spine. And the cover of the book was an artist's illustration of the robot from the story - I think it ended up with the robot developing a personality as a result of getting rained on, then running away instead of facing going back for a factory refurbishment, and it befriended the little girl of the family - saved her from something nasty but they thought it had done a bad thing? Gah! Memory. Tsk. I don't recall seeing the book since it was on my windowsill over 40 years ago along with the rest of a rag-tag of pulp fiction anthologies including Asimov and Clarke - the books all got damaged by condensation whilst I was away at boarding school.

          Sorry for the rambling long post... just trying to straighten thoughts out by writing... Grrr. Frustrating. That'll be a 3.30 in the morning wake up for me when the memory finally re-emerges.

          Armada Sci Fi 3? Maybe... The robot was indoors, kind of scary. A bit boxy looking.

          1. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

            Re: 3 laws for AI

            TRT. At least part of your musings seems related to the film Bicentennial Man (IIRC). A gentle and surprisingly good film starring Robin Williams, Sam Neill, Embeth Davidtz (in a dual role), Wendy Crewson, and Oliver Platt. It was based on the 1992 novel The Positronic Man by Isaac Asimov and Robert Silverberg (which is itself based on Asimov's original 1976 novelette "The Bicentennial Man"),

            It says here.

            1. TRT Silver badge

              Re: 3 laws for AI

              I have read that one, yes. Bicentennial man the film was fairly good if bordering on twee sentimentality. There are similar events in both works I think, unless I'm mixing them up a little.

              As predicted my memory woke me up at stupid o'clock and came up with the name Catherine Gleason as the author of the story FRED. A quick bit of Google (what DID we do before the internet? Oh yeah, remembered everything), and I find that it was included in the anthology Armada SF3, and the most noted book she wrote was The Lampton Worm. Anyway, book ordered so I can refresh my memory.

              1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

                Re: 3 laws for AI

                The Lampton Worm

                As I read the above, out popped from my memory... "The Lair of the White Worm". The film by Ken Russel, loosely based on the book of the same name by Bram Stoker, which itself was based on the legend of the Lambton Worm.

                The film features Amanda Donohoe, Catherine Oxenberg, and an early film appearance by Hugh Grant

                1. TRT Silver badge

                  Re: 3 laws for AI

                  Indeed. A bonkers film. But charming in its own way.

                2. TRT Silver badge

                  Re: 3 laws for AI

                  Oh, and Peter Capaldi.

                  1. Franco Silver badge

                    Re: 3 laws for AI

                    Ah yes, the worm was scared off by his bagpipes if I remember rightly. From what I remember the film was quite enjoyable but utterly ridiculous.

                3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

                  Re: 3 laws for AI

                  "based on the legend of the Lambton Worm."

                  <Looks out window at Penshaw Monument built on the top of the hill the worm coiled around and nods in agreement>

        2. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

          Re: 3 laws for AI

          I don't remember that particular gardening story, but it's true that a recurring theme of Asimov's robot series was that the three laws didn't really work all that well

          Not surprising, since he invented them as a literary device just so that he could write stories showing how they wouldn't work.

          1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

            Re: 3 laws for AI

            Well, they're not just a literary device. They're also a thought experiment in a concise, easily comprehended, logically consistent set of axioms can still produce unexpected results. Asimov's robot stories (and to a lesser extent the novels, which were also significantly concerned with social effects of machine intelligence) are as much about logic and complexity as they are about robots.

            Of course that has never stopped people from interpreting them as prescriptive, or even as descriptions of fact. I remember an Asimov editorial from IA'sSFM around 1980 in which he described getting calls from reporters asking about the Three Rules, after a Japanese maintenance worker was killed by an industrial robot.

        3. Trygve Henriksen

          Re: 3 laws for AI

          I effing hate those 3 laws.

          They're so vague that there's no way that a robot can follow them. At all!

          I'm very, very cross at Asimov to have even thought them out since muggles all over the world think they're a good idea and it seems, wants to implement them!

          1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
            Angel

            Re: 3 laws for AI

            Siri? is that you?

            1. quxinot Silver badge

              Re: 3 laws for AI

              Goddamnit Cortana I told you to be quiet!

              Stupid updates must have changed that setting. Again, grrrr.

            2. TRT Silver badge

              Re: 3 laws for AI

              Hey Siri! What are the three laws of robotics?

              Ohm's Law,

              Sod's Law and

              Cole's Law.

          2. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

            Re: 3 laws for AI

            I effing hate those 3 laws.

            They're so vague that there's no way that a robot can follow them. At all! ....Trygve Henriksen

            So vague, TH? Surely you cannot be serious? After all, they only really have to obey the one simple rule ..... be extra especially good at what one is doing and has planned to be done as a consequence of what is being done in all of that stuff which is yet to be done.

            That however requires that you realise such would be as autonomous virtual machines exercising executive operating system programs all of their own. I'm sure you can imagine that can make a hell of a lot of folk extremely uneasy .... and absolutely flabbergasted ........ hence the slow drip feeds of information for Stealthy Advanced IntelAIgent Services ...... for Virtually Real Operation[s]

          3. Teiwaz Silver badge

            Re: 3 laws for AI

            'Muggles' maybe, but it's the thoughtless corporate types driving A.I. with nothing but dollars in their eyes and being able to fire even the robots in H.R.

            And so we end up with cars that mow down pedestrians, and probably sooner or later something much like ED 209.

            We'll be lucky if there's anything vaguely in the training about not inflicting harm.

            Maybe a digital readout to assure punters

            'It's been XXX days since this unit caused a death. Have a Nice Day'

          4. dajames Silver badge

            Re: 3 laws for AI

            I effing hate those 3 laws.

            They're so vague that there's no way that a robot can follow them. At all!

            What's that, R2?

            The three laws are more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual laws?

        4. JDX Gold badge

          Re: a recurring theme ... was that the three laws didn't really work all that well

          I don't think that's really true. The stories focus on the rare instances when things go wrong, and are seen as abnormalities against millions of robots not causing any fuss.

          To say the Robot stories demonstrate the Laws work badly seems to me like saying modern medicine doesn't work all that well based on watching Dr. House's TV show.

          1. ibmalone Silver badge

            Re: a recurring theme ... was that the three laws didn't really work all that well

            Actually, House gives the impression modern medicine works extremely well and always comes down to a solvable logic puzzle with a dash of obscure knowledge, a bit like the Asimov stories. There's a reason: House is inspired by the Sherlock Holmes stories (House / Homes, elementary my dear Wilson), and Asimov really liked detective stories, constructing many of his short stories in that form.

            1. TRT Silver badge

              Re: a recurring theme ... was that the three laws didn't really work all that well

              And the protagonist is a drug addict...

              1. TRT Silver badge

                Re: a recurring theme ... was that the three laws didn't really work all that well

                You're saying Holmes didn't have an cocaine addiction and House didn't similarly have an addiction to Vicodin?

                Asimov of course wasn't addicted to any chemical that we know of, and was in favour of clean living. Sadly he died of diseases associated with AIDS after he contracted HIV - something he was told to keep quiet about due to prejudice at the time.

            2. nanchatte

              Re: a recurring theme ... was that the three laws didn't really work all that well

              Asimov was a fan of the detective format... The first full-on novels he wrote based in his "Foundation" galaxy (the Elijah Baily and R Daneel Olivaw books) are testament to that.

            3. Roj Blake Silver badge

              Re: a recurring theme ... was that the three laws didn't really work all that well

              The character of Sherlock Holmes was originally based on a doctor who once taught Conan Doyle.

          2. Rol Silver badge

            Re: a recurring theme ... was that the three laws didn't really work all that well

            What Asimov's laws, and the knowledge required to fully comply with them makes obvious, is that like a professional fighter, you first need to be aware of how to permanently damage your sparing partner in order that you can avoid permanently damaging your sparing partner.

            Now imagine the uproar on our agreeing to an AI being taught how to kill humans, even though that knowledge is fundamental to the objective of avoiding killing humans?

            The future of robotics as penned by Asimov in one of his doom laden robots gone mental sagas, is that they stop trying to mimic humans and instead focus on automated tasks like - flying around scooping up mosquitoes and gnats by the thousands. No complex AI required, just sufficient processing and robust coding to avoid freaking people out.

            1. TRT Silver badge

              Re: a recurring theme ... was that the three laws didn't really work all that well

              They have... detailed files.

          3. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

            Re: a recurring theme ... was that the three laws didn't really work all that well

            The stories focus on the rare instances when things go wrong, and are seen as abnormalities against millions of robots not causing any fuss.

            Irrelevant to the force of Asimov's robot stories. The point isn't to explore whether the Three Rules produce an acceptable defect rate or are probabilistically "good". It's to consider a series of logic puzzles in which a system of three simple axioms is shown to produce surprising results.

            In that sense the Three Laws work "poorly", for their ostensible purpose (though well for their pedagogical one), because they appear to offer simple, absolute guarantees, but it's possible to find numerous exceptions. The principle of least surprise is violated.

            It's certainly possible to claim that in the world of the robot stories the Three Laws work "well" in a practical sense. That's much like Chaitin's argument that Hilbert's Entscheidungsproblem was a resounding success, because Church's and Turing's proofs that it can't be solved introduced formalisms that were invaluable in spurring the development of digital computing; a mathematical "failure" (not really a failure, of course, and Chaitin doesn't characterize it as such) contributed to a major technological advance. You could say the same of the Three Laws (in their world): mapping their logical "failures" helps cement their application in technology.

            But reading that as a principal theme of the stories rather goes against the interpretations most readily inferred from the text, I think. The stories are about how the Laws fail.

        5. ibmalone Silver badge

          Re: 3 laws for AI

          I don't remember that particular gardening story, but it's true that a recurring theme of Asimov's robot series was that the three laws didn't really work all that well

          This. Absolutely this.

          Asimov loved detective stories, the three laws gave him a framework to create all kinds of logical puzzles and paradoxes. Yes, they usually arise from situations or unusual conflicts, but they're created for fiction.

          Part of the setup in most of the robotics stories is, "this couldn't possibly have happened under the three laws," which is part of the fiction and a jumping-off point for "what's gone wrong here?". None of the laws can actually be implemented with our technology as it stands because we can't create systems that are capable of assessing whether the first law is met (needed for 2 and 3). Even if we could, such judgements have to be probabilistic, which leads us into weighting and one of the very paradoxes Asimov used for a story, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runaround_(story).

          The first law actually supposes a total knowledge of consequences, and if you've got that, how far do you assess the chain? Readers of Terry Pratchett's Going Postal may remember Mr Pump's more comprehensive assessment of the downstream harms caused by the central character's "victimless" crimes.

          1. Intractable Potsherd Silver badge

            Re: 3 laws for AI

            In none of the robot stories we're the Laws of Robotics actually broken, which shows their resilience in that world. The problems occurred when there was conflict between different laws, or where the balance between the laws was changed.

            1. ibmalone Silver badge

              Re: 3 laws for AI

              The problem remains that they are stories, they're not broken in that world because that's one of the scaffolds of the story. Any fictional world works how its author wants it to, it doesn't demonstrate that those rules work in the real world.

            2. nanchatte

              Re: 3 laws for AI

              Actually, the First law was broken by a R. Giskard Reventlov, A robot who self redacted his programming when he came up with the concept of the Zeroth law: that under certain circumstances it was acceptable to harm individuals if doing so would prove beneficial to society as a whole...

              Asimov's books always asked the deeper questions about society vs. the individual, moral absolutism, war, idealism and societal stagnation...

              Wonderful stuff...

              1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

                Re: 3 laws for AI

                Also worth remembering that in Asimov's books, humans never encounter any intelligent alien species, because the three laws mean that the robot pioneers that went first exterminated everything, in order to "protect" humanity. Maybe there should be a -1th law about not committing genocide on a galactic scale?

        6. ThatOne Silver badge
          Devil

          Re: 3 laws for AI

          > before suggesting that they might actually be a good idea

          Nonsense, we're speaking about a politician: It's never about improving peoples' lives, it's about looking like one has a firm grip on the situation and is working towards improving society (helping the weak and poor, save kittens from trees, etc.).

          His PR team wanted to position him as "a guy who has solutions". Never mind the actual suggestion, the point is he made one.

      3. This post has been deleted by its author

      4. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: 3 laws for AI

        "The one I have trouble with is #2."

        You probably ought to be suspicious of #1. Yes,it sounds excellent, but so does the equivalent rule for human beings ... and yet no legal system ever has actually imposed that rule on people. You *are* allowed to hurt people under some circumstances and you are allowed to leave people to get hurt under quite a large number of circumstances. I expect Mr Asimov was aware of this.

        1. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
          Terminator

          Re: 3 laws for AI

          Right, but robots aren't supposed to hurt people in Asimov's world, which is entirely consistent. Conversely, he apparently never imagined the military-industrial complex wanting to build killer robots (or maybe he did and I never read such a story).

          1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

            Re: 3 laws for AI

            He imagined it ... and made sure it wouldn't happen in his universe.

          2. J.G.Harston Silver badge

            Re: 3 laws for AI

            I'm sure I read an Asmiov story where military chaps were concerned at the esalating costs of robot attack craft being destroyed, they tasked engineers with making the craft simple enough for "cheap" humans to pilot.

            1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
              Joke

              Re: 3 laws for AI

              Won't be long now before the bean counters at the MOD follow suit with respect to the Watchkeeper Drone

            2. David L Webb

              Re: 3 laws for AI

              Asimov's "The Feeling of Power" where the rediscovery of how humans can perform mental arithmetic which had been lost due to the reliance on computers leads the military to the idea of manned missiles

              https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/vl/notes/asimov.html

              "

              "And I see something even beyond this. It may be fantastic now, a mere dream; but in the future I see the manned missile!"

              There was an instant murmur from the audience. The general drove on. "At the present time, our chief bottleneck is the fact that missiles are limited in intelligence. The computer controlling them can only be so large, and for that reason they can meet the changing nature of anti-missile defences in an unsatisfactory way. Few missiles, if any, accomplish their goal and missle warfare is coming to a dead end; for the enemy, fortunately, as well as for ourselves.

              "On the other hand, a missile with a man or two within, controlling flight by graphitics, would be lighter, more mobile, more intelligent. It would give us a lead that might well mean the margin of victory. Besides which, gentlemen, the exigencies of war compel us to remember one thing. A man is much more dispensable than a computer. Manned missiles could be launched in numbers and under circumstances that no good general would care to undertake as far as computer-directed missiles are concerned"

              "

              1. Rol Silver badge

                Re: 3 laws for AI

                Stick a pigeon in there.

          3. doublelayer Silver badge

            Re: 3 laws for AI

            It's also worth keeping in mind the various risks of such an absolute law. A robot using these laws and intelligent enough to know these things would probably refuse to do most things on the basis that it wants to dedicate itself to preventing harm to humans, and if it isn't doing so, it is by inaction allowing them to come to harm. That would probably be a good thing for a while, but after about a week of this, the manufacturers would realize the problems in the business model of making robots who can and do decide to abandon their original tasks and try to form a volunteer harm-reduction squad. And that's only if you can find a perfect way of implementing these laws in software or hardware, if you have very clear definitions of "harm", and if the robots are capable of making the connections between possible actions and probable results. If you don't obtain perfection in any of those aspects, you have many more problems.

      5. alisonken1

        Re: 3 laws for AI

        And don't forget RoboCop's Directive 4:

        "Thou shalt not touch a Corporate Executive"

    2. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Re: 3 laws for AI

      AIs will do whatever their masters direct them to do;... .... alain williams

      That has AI masters ruling both the physical and geopolitical landscapes, ..... or destroying them both as the case can so easily be.

      And that extraordinarily renders them heap powerful medicine, kemosabe. Or renders it so, depending on you understanding and gender choice preference for dealing with AI.

    3. Clunking Fist Bronze badge

      Re: 3 laws for AI

      That piece by an FT columnist was worth a look... if you wanted to see someone on an average salary demonstrate how they are, ITHO, superior to a successful multi billionaire. Painful and sad. Every profession has its jargon, why should management be any different.

  4. macjules Silver badge

    Quite Right

    We don't need no French expert telling us how to manage artificial intelligence. We have enough of our own artificial intelligence. We need an expert to tell us how to manage genuine intelligence.

    1. A K Stiles Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Quite Right

      First you have to find some genuine intelligence...

      1. macjules Silver badge

        Re: Quite Right

        ... because there's bugger all down here on Earth.

      2. Benson's Cycle
        Boffin

        Re: Quite Right

        I'm here, but I'm only visiting.

  5. Ordinary Donkey

    How to dispose of the rubber duck depends on whether it is actually made of rubber or of soft plastic. If in doubt stop by your regional recycling center.

    If it's one of those rigid plastic abominations then you're out of luck I'm afraid.

    1. Venerable and Fragrant Wind of Change
      Coat

      Is rubber duck a euphemism, or rhyming slang?

      Would you rubber-duck an ordinary donkey, or would the ass need to be special?

    2. SVV Silver badge

      Why are you assuming it's a rubber duck? Not that I'm suggesting that flushing live ducks down the toilet on the train is the sort of thing that might happen in rural France or anything...........

      However if it is meant to be une canard artificiel, it may be suggesting that the "bathroom" is not really intended for bathing.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Not that I'm suggesting that flushing live ducks down the toilet on the train is the sort of thing that might happen in rural France or anything"

        "France to ban shredding of live male chicks"

        1. TRT Silver badge

          Cor blimey! Flush a duck.

          1. FrogsAndChips Silver badge

            Fetchez la vache!

        2. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

          Leaves on the line

          LeavesNumber 2s on the line in the UK, until 2023

          https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/03/uk-railway-firms-faiil-to-clean-up-waste-dumping-act

          Still, best not try dispose a rubber duck...

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "If it's one of those rigid plastic abominations then you're out of luck I'm afraid."

      Our UK council "tip" centre has a large skip marked for "Rigid Plastic".

      1. Ordinary Donkey

        Then I guess taking it back to the UK is always an option.

      2. DavCrav Silver badge

        "Our UK council "tip" centre has a large skip marked for "Rigid Plastic"."

        And that means they recycle it why exactly?

  6. TRT Silver badge

    Ninja apple cores. Who'd have thought?!

    1. My other car WAS an IAV Stryker
      Coffee/keyboard

      I had to go back and look again. Then it hit me --->

  7. Franco Silver badge

    All this talk of Rubber Ducks has made me want to re-watch Convoy.

    1. My other car WAS an IAV Stryker
      Thumb Up

      10-4, good buddy.

      (I've never seen the movie, but I know the song well. I'm a fan of Chip Davis and his "band" that arose from those early works. A little search tells me Davis scored the movie also; maybe I should watch it.)

      1. Trygve Henriksen

        You haven't seen the movie?

        Good luck the weekend's here, then.

        1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
          Linux

          Sir. May I remind you that you have now been in that bathroom for over three years?

          Ah well I wouldn’t overstress that angle you know, I mean one’s never alone with a rubber duck…

          Rather truncated from Fit The Sixth.

  8. Manolo
    Holmes

    You are confusing EU with Europe

    "After tonight, I will no longer be a European citizen"

    Actually, you will. You will no longer be an EU citizen.

    It's the same confusion that causes the pro-EU camp to call the critics of the EU "europhobes".

    I am not afraid of Europe, I deeply love Europe (including the UK).

    And because I love Europe so much, I want a better EU.

    And it is concerning that even the departure of the UK does not cause alarm in Brussels and makes them consider listening and changing.

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

      In the looser sense of the word, meaning "inhabitant" rather than the current stricter use of the word, meaning a legally recognised subject of a nation, state or commonwealth.

    2. GrahamRJ

      Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

      If the reason for the departure of the UK was due to actual EU policies, that would have some relevance.

      BoJo, and others from the Murdoch/Barclay press (let's be fair), have spent the last 20-30 years publishing outright lies about the EU though. Various anti-EU Conservatives have repeated those. Not too unreasonably, a lot of people think those lies are true because they're published in national newspapers.

      As for a "better EU", it's important to remember that the EU, in its autocratic style, had the indignity to impose equal rights for older people, equal rights for gay people, equal rights for non-white people, equal rights for non-Christian people, equal rights for Christian people (in NI), equal rights for men to parental responsibility, equal rights for men to parental leave, equal rights for women pensioners, a national minimum wage... and I think I'll stop there. As those radical concepts (if you can describe "treat people properly" as that) were introduced, every Conservative party in government or opposition attempted to derail every single one. Several were opposed by the Blair/Brown governments too. The EU imposed them on the country, in direct opposition from the UK governments, because the EU considered them to be the correct thing to do. So which of those do you think shouldn't have happened? Which of those groups do you think should not have human rights?

      Holocaust Remembrance Day was the other week, and one of the key peints was that people should learn how to prevent it happening again. The EU is, directly, a force to stop that happening again, because "other countries should not meddle in our internal affairs" leads *directly* to Kristallnacht, ghettos and gas chambers. It really is that simple - and the horrific part is that it's already started.

      1. Manolo

        Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

        As far as I know, equal rights are guaranteed in national constitutions. No EU needed for that.

        " because "other countries should not meddle in our internal affairs" leads *directly* to Kristallnacht, ghettos and gas chambers. "

        Yes, I remember all the gas chambers I saw on my holidays in Iceland and Switzerland, and I hear Norway is terrible too.

      2. dnbattley

        Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

        Isn't it ironic that Kristallnacht, ghettos, and gas chambers are all etymologically or factually European in origin?

        1. FrogsAndChips Silver badge

          Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

          And why do you think the project of European construction started right after WW2?

          1. Criggie

            Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

            ...because there was a lot of open space in city centers, just needed rubble cleared away ?

        2. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
          Headmaster

          Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

          Yes, it's like rain on your wedding day.

        3. A.P. Veening Silver badge

          Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

          But concentration camps are a British invention (sometime around 1900 in southern Africa, you may have heard of the Boer Wars), they were only perfected by the Germans.

          1. Stoneshop Silver badge

            Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

            But concentration camps are a British invention

            Nope. Cuban, actually. Tried out by General Valeriano Weyler in an attempt to stop guerrilleros mixing with non-combatants, and considered so successful that General Roberts deployed that tactic in the Boer wars a couple of years later.

            1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

              Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

              Thanks, didn't know that yet.

              1. Stoneshop Silver badge

                Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

                Should have mentioned that Cuba was a Spanish colony at the time.

                (insert inquisition joke here)

          2. Tom 7 Silver badge

            Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

            No - concentration camps as used in the Boer War were brought over from the US by a soldier who had served during the Trail of Tears where 60,000 native Americans were ethnically cleansed from their homelands to the west. For some reason the US have pushed to get it called a British invention.

    3. Spanners Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

      It's the same confusion that causes the pro-EU camp to call the critics of the EU "europhobes".

      They were called that in some parts of the media but I mentally file them under "xenophobes".

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

        Yes, because those that dislike the EU's wasteful bureaucracy and corruption are all racists who hate foreigners.

        1. Benson's Cycle

          Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

          No, they are cognitive dissonance sufferers who haven't noticed how much smaller is the EU bureaucracy than the equivalent staffs of all the member countries that it replaced, and how much it has actually reduced corruption.

          There are plenty of ERGites that wanted out because of (a) the new opportunities for profitable corruption and (b) the creation of new Civil Service posts into which their friends and relatives can be catapulted. One imagines Private Eye will be reporting on it soon.

          1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

            Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

            equivalent staffs of all the member countries that it replaced

            It didn't replace them, it just added a layer or managers above them. It makes the rules, those underlying staffs implement them. That's why we have so many.

      2. Manolo

        Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

        I really, really do not understand the mental gymnastics that lead from "Here is someone who wants an EU with more transparency and democracy (even proponents of the EU acknowledge the EU has a democratic deficit) and oh, I don't know, a budget that gets approved by the Auditing Committee for a change" to "Therefore, clearly, this person must be a racist who hates foreigners."

        (I must have been so afraid at my wedding, with twelve nationalities present)

        And you know what, I even think it is this attitude that caused Brexit to happen.

        1. holmegm Bronze badge

          Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

          "And you know what, I even think it is this attitude that caused Brexit to happen."

          Pretty much. You can only be called a racist so many times before you want the caller to shut up and leave you alone.

    4. whileI'mhere

      Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

      "And because I love Europe so much, I want a better EU."

      So on balance it would probably have been better to remain and work harder to change it for the better. Leaving it is certainly not going to enable whatever flavour of 'better' you think it ought to be.

      1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

        Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

        So on balance it would probably have been better to remain and work harder to change it for the better.

        I think 25 years of trying showed that that's never going to happen.

        1. Stoneshop Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

          I think 25 years of trying showed that that's never going to happen.

          Trying? By whom? David Owen? Margaret Thatcher? John Major? Gordon Brown? David Cameron? Theresa May? Tony Blair could be seen as pro-EU if you squint a bit a lot, but even he really wasn't.

          1. Benson's Cycle

            Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

            Actually John Major was pro-EU, and during his ministry we took several steps to improve our relationship. But the same "bastards" that created the "ERG" sabotaged him.

            Vote me down but I was there at the time.

            1. Stoneshop Silver badge

              Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

              I'll grant you that, but he should have put Gordon Brown on a leash.

              In the backyard of a farm.

              In Cornwall. In the rain.

            2. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

              Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

              Actually John Major was pro-EU

              Very much so, and a vocal critic of Brexit.

              That's one reason why he didn't give us a referendum on Maastricht, the opinion polls were showing that it would have been rejected by 60%, even the very europhile French only voted for it by 51%. A pity, without it we might have just kept a European Community and there would have been no need for Brexit.

        2. elaar

          Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

          "I think 25 years of trying showed that that's never going to happen."

          In what way did we try exactly? What did Tory/UKIP MEPs do that constitutes "trying"?

          I think it's fair to say that the EU will be a better place without our representatives.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

        whileI'mhere,

        "So on balance it would probably have been better to remain and work harder to change it for the better."

        Still, the great fallacy is repeated !!!

        How does a 'single country' change the EU when it is at odds with the majority (if not *all*).

        The majority of the EU members accept the EU, warts and all, as is.

        There cannot be change from within by one member. Full Stop.

        1. MiguelC Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: There cannot be change from within by one member. Full Stop.

          Because we of course know that, since the dawn of history, all advancements in society started by having the majority in favour....

        2. jwa

          Re: You are confusing EU with Europe

          Let's see, the single market, the push eastwards, the rebate, the opt out of ever closer union, the opt out from schengen to name but a few.

  9. Kubla Cant Silver badge

    Infographics

    The infographic of what you're allowed to flush down the toilet seems to be missing two obvious things. I can see how they could (distastefully) depict one of them, but the other might be a challenge.

    I can't resist the opportunity to complain about infographics in appliance instructions. Thousands of years ago, early civilisations were able to get by with pictograms, but life was simpler then, and the most sophisticated domestic appliance was a saddle quern.

    Eventually, humanity progressed to its present technological zenith, largely as a result of using alphabetic writing, featuring words and numbers. Just as well, since we now have to understand how to use complicated things like a smart egg tray and a wifi connected electric kettle.

    But whenever I unpack some new appliance, I have to decode the instructions from a set of badly-drawn pictures. It's like being on the receiving end of somebody trying to explain the theory of relativity through the medium of expressive dance.

    1. Alister Silver badge
      Coffee/keyboard

      Re: Infographics

      It's like being on the receiving end of somebody trying to explain the theory of relativity through the medium of expressive dance.

      <splorf!>

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Infographics

      "the most sophisticated domestic appliance was a saddle quern"

      The loom?

    3. stiine Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Infographics

      One of my girlfriend's daughters is a dancer. I'll see what she thinks.

    4. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Infographics

      "But whenever I unpack some new appliance, I have to decode the instructions from a set of badly-drawn pictures. It's like being on the receiving end of somebody trying to explain the theory of relativity through the medium of expressive dance."

      Yes, because it's cheaper to give a 5 year old some crayons than to produce instructions in multiple languages. Maybe they should just produce all instruction leaflets in Esperanto and force us all to learn that? It might be easier than decoding various random scribbles.

      1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

        Re: Infographics

        A few years ago I bought a Phillips bathroom light. Other than the bullshit about "natural coloured light" (ghastly cheap and yellow fourescent bulb that took two minutes to get to stabilise - replaced with a nice daylight light LED), an inexplicable custom headed bolt requiring the use of the specific allen key that came with it... it came with what was genuinely a 2m x 1m sheet of health and safety crap consisting of many inexplicable symbols with apparent explanations in multiple languages, most of which didn't make sense in any language. Most of the warnings didn't even apply to the fixture in question.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    rob pensions from nurses and beat up firefighters – undeserving wasters in wildly overpaid occupations I'm sure you agree.

    Absolutely. They should be happy to do their jobs for the good of the state, not expect artificially inflated wages.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Don't forget the train drivers. How dare the government stop them retiring at 50 after their long, difficult career in the cab, shovelling sandwiches while holding those buttons down.

      1. Rameses Niblick the Third Kerplunk Kerplunk Whoops Where's My Thribble? Silver badge

        ...long, difficult career in the cab, shovelling sandwiches while holding those buttons down.

        Hey! I work in IT and I resemble that remark!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          I refute your claims.

          "...long, difficult career in the cab, shovelling sandwiches while holding those buttons down.

          Hey! I work in IT and I resemble that remark!"

          Don't downplay your skills ..... sometimes you let the button go up ....... and there are so many of them (all different shapes and sizes, some with lights and some even go 'Click' !!!)

          All while you 'Drink Coffee/Tea, eat sandwiches and talk on the Telephone at the same time.

          You are a marvel of multitasking ........ have pride in your unique(ish) skills.

          :) ;)

        2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          ...long, difficult career in the cab, shovelling sandwiches while holding those buttons down.

          Hey! I work in IT and I resemble that remark!

          Was that the time you pressed the server "off" button in then emailed On Call with the other hand while shouting for your colleagues to help?

        3. Aussie Doc
          Trollface

          Oh?

          You 'ad sandwiches?

          Looxury.

    2. whileI'mhere

      "be happy to do their jobs for the good of the state"

      L'état, c'est moi.

    3. Barry Rueger Silver badge

      Hello Australia!

      https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/dec/28/volunteer-firefighters-nsw-compensated-scott-morrison

      Actually, Australia feels like Britain's post-Brexit future.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        You mean ´Burn Baby Burn’ ?

      2. Stoneshop Silver badge
        Flame

        Actually, Australia feels like Britain's post-Brexit future.

        I'd expect Britain to be somewhat less flammable.

        In the literal sense, that is.

        And you're less likely to come across koalas, kangaroos and wombats in Blighty.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Actually, Australia feels like Britain's post-Brexit future.

          Some of those dried up moorland fires last year got quite big. At least by UK standards. And there are wild wallabies roaming the countryside. Close enough for guvvy work!

        2. DiViDeD Silver badge

          Re: Actually, Australia feels like Britain's post-Brexit future.

          And you're less likely to come across koalas, kangaroos and wombats in Blighty.

          Since the fires (which are ongoing in many areas, btw), you're less likely to see them in Australia also (over a billion of them have ceased to be, apparently).

  11. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
    Big Brother

    Passport/ID with you at all times

    Pretty sure that in France you're supposed to have your passport or ID card on you at all times (if possible).

    1. Stork Silver badge

      Re: Passport/ID with you at all times

      Probably. I am in Portugal where the rules are similar (no-one considered changing that in 1974), and after I had my wallet with my residence card (and much more) stolen I only carry my PT driving license and take my chances, relying on white male privilege.

      But in most cases the plods here are probably more lax than their French colleagues

  12. simonlb Silver badge
    Terminator

    A Double Edged Sword

    3. An AI has the right to defend itself, unless this conflicts with the above two laws.

    Not so good if the AI in question is a drone armed with sidewinder missiles which won't do what it's told, but OTOH, at some point your Windows PC will decide it's safer not to do any more bi-annual updates and ignore the Windows Update service.

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Re: A Double Edged Sword

      An AI should protect the investment of resources associated with its continued existence and correct functioning.

      i.e. They can be damned expensive.

      So which human order is to be obeyed? The owner of the machine that says "do not go into the fountain" or the saboteur that orders the security guard robot to drown itself?

      Mind you, see Power of the Daleks... that ended well. Not.

      DOCTOR: You're my servant, are you?

      DALEK: I am.

      DOCTOR: Very well. Immobilise yourself. Go on.

      (No response)

      DOCTOR: I order it! Immediately!

      (The Dalek's eye-stalk droops.)

      DOCTOR: Huh!

      (The Doctor leaves with Ben and Polly. The Dalek comes back to life.)

      JANLEY: Lesterson.

      LESTERSON: Why did you stop obeying? You were given an order.

      DALEK: He has gone.

      LESTERSON: Then you obey only...

      DALEK (interrupting): His order was wrong. I cannot serve human beings if I am immobilised. You gave me power. Your orders are right. I serve you.

      HENSELL: Lesterson. Lesterson, it reasons. Just how limited is its intelligence?

      LESTERSON: Now, there is no cause for concern, Governor. Just you wait until you see the amount of work it can do. And now, I'm really going to put you through your paces. Follow me, Dalek.

      DALEK: I obey.

      1. Glen 1 Silver badge

        Re: A Double Edged Sword

        DALEK: "Would you like some tea?"

        1. TomPhan

          Re: A Double Edged Sword

          Would you like some toast?

          1. Omgwtfbbqtime

            Re: A Double Edged Sword

            Ah! A waffle man!

      2. junglesnot

        Re: A Double Edged Sword

        A Dalek is not an AI - it's an organism housed in a shuttlecock-shaped exoskeleton.

        1. TRT Silver badge

          Re: A Double Edged Sword

          At that point the people of Vulcan thought they were robots, and the Daleks weren't giving on that they were anything more than very sophisticated machines. Which is odd... I mean, IF the colonists thought there was a biological component to the Daleks, that what they actually had was a squid in a battle-tank, what would they have done then? Broken them up or melted them down because you can't trust organic life forms? As if the biological component has a desire for self-preservation that over-rides all else and thus makes them too dangerous?

  13. batfink Silver badge

    Those damn Europeans

    So rich that they have surplus rubber ducks, and the main problem is how to properly dispose of the excess.

    Or are these part of the European Rubber Duck Mountain?

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Those damn Europeans

      That is a vile canard.

  14. Tom 7 Silver badge

    Asimovs laws are quite correct.

    However he mentioned nothing about peripherals.

  15. David 18

    Demonic apple cores

    Is it just me who find the apple core particularly disturbing? Those demonic eyes staring balefully out of the picture, daring you throw it in the bin.

    I'm guessing they are a French representation of Cox's Orange Pippins, Golden Delicious are presumably happy and smiling .

  16. Dr_N Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Dynamite?

    Only in the bin, but not the bog.

  17. HammerOn1024

    Harsh

    "Brexit means we are at last freed to obey whatever the Americans instruct us to do."

    Harsh man... harsh. It's not so much as we order you, it's just we strongly recommend, that if you want to do business here, we will be rather insistent. Think of it as speaking Python, Monty Python that is, back at you with a touch of a mafioso boss: One may not like it, but at the end of the day, we all will make money and proudly fly the bird at Europe. And at the end of the day, any chance to flip off Europe can't be all that bad now can it?

    1. Glen 1 Silver badge

      Re: Harsh

      "if you want to do business here, we will be rather insistent."

      Works for both EU and US. The Brexit lot trying to say the same about the UK, fundamentally don't understand that the UK is not as powerful as they think it is.

    2. TRT Silver badge

      Re: Harsh

      "Think of it as speaking Python, Monty Python that is, back at you"

      I'm French! Why do think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king!

      You don't frighten us, English pig-dogs! ---Go and boil your bottoms, sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called Arthur-king, you and all your silly English knnnniggets. Thppppt!

      I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper!...... I fart in your general direction! . Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

  18. whileI'mhere

    "part of the European Rubber Duck Mountain?"

    I think that technically it is the European Rubber Duck Pool. But we have got out, picked up our towel, and will be drying ourselves off for the next 11 months while we wonder which of the now available shark-infested waters to swim in. No more rubber ducks for us!

    1. Alistair Dabbs

      >> European Rubber Duck Pool

      It's a lake.

      1. TRT Silver badge

        Duck mountain Or mountain duck.

  19. Daniel von Asmuth
    Big Brother

    Brittania rule the waves

    The UK may no longer be supreme world power, but "pariah nation" is exaggeration. Which is still better than no nation at all, like living in a protectorate of the allied powers.

    1. Glen 1 Silver badge

      Re: Brittania rule the waves

      "like living in a protectorate of the allied powers"

      Did we stop being members of NATO as well?

  20. Dr_N Silver badge

    Emmanuel Mekon ?!

    Quick, someone radio Dan Dire and Pigby.

  21. TomPhan
    Unhappy

    If you want AI futures

    Then "With Folded Hands" or "I Have No Mouth ad Cannot Scream" seem the most likely.

    1. Glen 1 Silver badge

      Re: If you want AI futures

      If you *really* want AI futures, read "The Last Question"

      1. DiViDeD Silver badge

        Re: The Last Question

        I have to admit that was the first story that sent an actual shiver up my spine when I got to that last sentence.

        "There is Now"

        ooer!

  22. gerdesj Silver badge
    Gimp

    état nounou

    état nounou - Given I don't speak froggy, does that mean "nanny state"?

    Is that Franglais?

    1. Celeste Reinard

      Re: état nounou

      Oui oui. C'est carement ça.

  23. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Alert

    Please don't flush...

    The following sign can be seen on some UK train toilet seats...

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=south+west+trains+toilet+sign

    Please don't flush

    Nappies, sanitary towels,

    paper towels, gum,

    old phones, unpaid bills,

    junk mail, your ex's sweater,

    hopes, dreams or goldfish

    down this

    toilet

  24. Muscleguy Silver badge

    Hoots Mon

    Fortunately the French still remember the Auld Alliance so us Scots are exempt from les Rosbif's ordure. If the current SNP leadership ever discover their spine and let have some sort a vote on Independence instead of expecting Boris to discover he's a democrat after all (ha!) then we can rejoin our European friends* and present Scottish passports if requested.

    Mrs Muscleguy and I have on a number of occasions found ourselves a nice cafe or bistro or bar only to have it then invaded by loud, ignorant, obnoxious English people. Mme Muscleguy is English but is often forced to adopt our adopted NZ nationality to gain a measure of self respect.

    Be not English in Europe if you can help it and you will get a different reaction. We have been apologised to by French people anxious to let us know l'Affair Rainbow was not in their name. We assure them we knew that, our beef too was with the then French govt and security establishment. Not that we got any help from the 'Mother Country' who sided with the French who caused an act of war (two, actually, there were two mines) in Auckland harbour.

    *Some European MEPs unveiled a large sign outside the EU Parliament in the week saying they will 'leave a light on for Scotland'. Then there's the tweeted picture of a bar in Dublin with a sign saying all English patrons must be accompanied by an EU minder but not the nice Scots. If we ever get to vote Yes we shall not want for governments recognising us. Which is of course what Boris doesn't want.

    Let our people go.

    1. Intractable Potsherd Silver badge

      Re: Hoots Mon

      Nicely said, Muscleguy! If you look carefully, you should be able to see me giving the thumbs-up from the south bank of the Tay! If we ever meet, the first rounds on me :-)

  25. J.G.Harston Silver badge

    Dabbsy, you're white North European, you're not an immigrant, you're an ex-pat.

  26. Celeste Reinard

    Spanking!

    As I am also by times a bit Artificially Intelligent, and like to disrupt stuf (there goes the neighborhood), I was thinking along the lines of creating a Spankbot - one that necessarily causes harm (maybe there's something for Our Musky Lord Elon, there?). That also can give a nice, good and solid whipping about. As a gift for... the neighborhood. Or the downstairs neighbor, that, judging the noises emanating from the floorboards, resembles mostly caterwauling, and could do with some spanking ad infinitum. I suggest to call it the Tyrannosaurus may - the Maybot, for all intentional and unintentional (self)harm (or mayhem) - while breaking all the rules, in obedience of them (by popular vote), without any contradiction whatsoever to all and none of the above. ... I aim to please.

    ... There is no doubt in My mind, being the Celestial Being I am, about the intellectual qualities of those of Mister D. and His ability to think of a nice place where He can shove His rubber duck without Me telling Him, comme Adulte Responsable (with the added bonus that this ahumdum remains sfw).

  27. Big_Boomer Silver badge

    I feel sorry for the AIs & Robots. Imagine constantly having to deal with inconsistent, incompetent, self-important humans, and still be polite, caring and non-violent. Do any of you think you could do that? I know I'd struggle if I couldn't blow off steam by being rude, uncaring, and occasionally violent (if pushed enough!).

    I agree with Asimov's (and Daneel's) eventual conclusion that Robots & AIs actually damage humanity by making us reliant on them potentially to the point of racial

    suicide. Those whose careers/incomes are dependant on AI will disagree and try to force their products on us (already happening with Google/Alexa/Siri/etc.). I have no problem with something that helps me to do what I need to do, but I do not need anything making my decisions for me. I already hate software that "tries" to be helpful, starting with "Clippy" and getting worse.

  28. Loyal Commenter Silver badge
    Alert

    More to the point...

    Who's eating apples in the toilet?

  29. 89724102172714182892114I7551670349743096734346773478647892349863592355648544996312855148587659264921 Bronze badge

    Who the hell really needs "Ring"? I convinced my neighbour to avoid these - stick with wired+internet disabled - I said, no snoopware, constant recharging of sensors. My alarm system can ring me using voip.

  30. A Nother Handle
    WTF?

    Visiting France last summer one restaurant had Dyson airblade hand dryers. Under a sign saying 'this is not a urinal'.

    What was most puzzling was that this sign was also present in the ladies'.

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