back to article Oracle leaves its heart in San Francisco – or it would do if, you know, Oracle had a heart

Oracle's massive OpenWorld shindig is relocating from hipster central to the desert, or put another way, from San Francisco to Las Vegas. The database giant has run its monster show in the city since 1996 but blamed expensive hotels, and "poor street conditions" for its decision. By that, it's probably referring to the south- …

  1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    "poor street conditions"

    So it smells of hobo piss there as well ?

    In 2016, for my daughter's 20th, we went to the USA to show her the places her daddy grew up and around. Of course, passing by Los Angeles, we toured Hollywood Boulevard.

    It stinks of piss. Every tree is "watered" all night long, and in the morning there are repeated heaps of snoring blankets every few yards. It's sad.

    If San Francisco is going the same way, I'm not surprised Oracle is pulling out. As shitty as Oracle is, that is competition it cannot hold up against.

    1. Marketing Hack Silver badge

      Re: "poor street conditions"

      SF is probably worse than LA for homelessness. Its not so much the numbers, but the city is physically much smaller than LA, so you get a very high concentration of trash, urine, etc.

    2. jake Silver badge

      Re: "poor street conditions"

      "So it smells of hobo piss there as well ?"

      It's not the Hobos, it's the homeless pissing all over everything. Hobos avoid SF like the plague, as do most other intelligent beings.

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: "poor street conditions"

      Does Oracle, you know, pay its taxes?

      No, no it doesn't.

      Google shifted $23B in overseas cash to Bermuda tax haven in 2017, report says

      For years, tech giants Google, Apple Inc., Microsoft Corp., Cisco Systems Inc. and Oracle Corp. have used what’s known as the “Double Irish with a Dutch Sandwich” to reduce their global tax bill by funneling all foreign revenue into an Irish subsidiary, who sends it to a Dutch subsidiary, and back to a third Irish subsidiary with a mailbox in Bermuda, which has no corporate income tax.

      So, why are they getting precious about poo and wee and homeless people on their doorstep? It's a result of their tax avoidance, it's what they wanted to happen. Perhaps their clever accountants could connect the dots next time and pay the taxes so the city can set up homeless shelters.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: "poor street conditions"

        No. As much as I dislike the companies mentioned, they have absolutely nothing to do with San Francisco's homeless population. Consider that SF has apparently had zero issues coming up with a quarter billion dollars per year to throw at the problem these last several years without corporate support.

        Keep in mind that almost all of the homeless in SF flocked to SF from other counties and states to get a free handout. Very few are actually homegrown. SF has created an aura of being The Big Rock Candy Mountain[0], and the bums are responding to the tall tales. You can't blame Corporate America on this one, SF has brought it on itself.

        [0] "Cockaigne" to you Euro types.

        1. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: "poor street conditions"

          I didn't downvote but I don't know what a Cockaigne is.

          It seems 20% of homeless comes from California state and 10% from the rest of the US, making 70% homegrown. Doesn't seem too unreasonable to me for a city like SF.

          San Francisco’s Homeless Crisis is Homegrown and a Catch-22

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: "poor street conditions"

            Those numbers are from a flawed study in 2014. The numbers today are well over 50% from outside SF ... and the folks who are from SF aren't the folks causing the problems (for the most part, there are bad apples in every barrel).

            Look up Cockaigne, I believe even Wiki has an article on it.

            1. Dan 55 Silver badge

              Re: "poor street conditions"

              Perhaps you could cite a better report? The one I cited is still cited today in the Wikipedia article (36).

  2. WolfFan Silver badge


    We at the Mos Eisley Chamber of Commerce take grave exception to this article! We would never let Oracle in, there are some things that we would never do!

  3. dnicholas Bronze badge


    The only place in the world you can score blow, a hooker, an STD and gamble your life away on S/4HANA in 20 minutes flat.

    1. David 132 Silver badge

      Re: Vegas

      So I'm not the only one who takes 19½ minutes to sign an S/4HANA contract then?

    2. jake Silver badge

      Re: Vegas

      I'm fairly certain you can still do that in SF, at one trade show or another. Good reason to avoid both places, methinks.

  4. Imhotep

    I Left My Wallet...

    I used to travel to SF about twice a year for a developers conference and because we had a brewery nearby. I always enjoyed the visits, but the last was a while ago since the conference moved to a different location.

    As for Las Vegas: those were the ones I let my reports attend. I just never understood the appeal. If I want gambling, hookers and blow, I'll just stay at home.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I Left My Wallet...

      True, at least in SF, if you've taken your other half with you, you can head off to the wine country or Yosemite or the coast afterwards. In Vegas you can buy rip-off tickets for a show, but not much else. If you're a geek the visit to Hoover Dam is well worthwhile, but not exactly a romantic getaway.

      1. Imhotep

        Re: I Left My Wallet...

        Yes, it's all God's country around there. Our brewery was close to Napa, so that was always on the agenda. I was tasked with stopping off at Ghiardellis to stock up on Non Pareils, and made sure to stop off at Aliotos or one of the other seafood restaurants on the wharf. I'm sure a native San Franciscan will shake their head and tell me where the really good seafood is.

      2. fredesmite Bronze badge

        Hoover damn use to be geek dream

        Then they stopped the inner dam tours after 911 .. so now you just look over the 1st floor observation view

    2. JohnFen Silver badge

      Re: I Left My Wallet...

      "If I want gambling, hookers and blow, I'll just stay at home."

      As someone who enjoys visiting Las Vegas from time to time, I'd just like to point out that while you can indeed get those things there, there are also a whole lot of great things available that have nothing to do with any of that. Whether you're a saint, sinner, or somewhere in between, there's something for you.

      1. Anonymous Cowtard

        "...a whole lot of great things available that have nothing to do with any of that."

        Serious question from somebody who has never visited : what are these things you speak of?

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: "...a whole lot of great things available that have nothing to do with any of that."

          There are many things to see and do in the desert. However, not a single one of them requires spending any money in Lost Wages. Lost Wages exists for one reason, and one reason only: To separate fools from their money.

        2. Brad Ackerman

          Re: "...a whole lot of great things available that have nothing to do with any of that."

          There are several Cirque du Soleil productions, plenty of magic acts (Penn & Teller are a must-see), any sort of live performance you can think of, golf, restaurants, the Pinball Hall of Fame, Red Rock Canyon, the Grand Canyon, Lake Mead, fancy shopping, and so on. The national (Zion, Bryce Canyon, Arches) and state parks (Snow Canyon, Kodachrome Basin, &c &c &c) in SW Utah aren't quite in day-trip range but are a good stop before/after LV.

  5. james7byrne

    Vegas Knows how to host a convention

    I've been to several EMC World events in Las Vegas and they were all excellent. The Las Vegas hotels know how to work together on an event. The event was run across several hotels, hosting 15,000 attendees, without a hitch. I found there was a lot to do in Vegas and I don't gamble or go to stupid strip clubs. Las Vegas is more affordable and the airport is close the main strip, it's perfect for a convention.

    1. David 132 Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Vegas Knows how to host a convention

      Yes, mostly agreed, apart from the usual Vegas unpleasantness of having to cross an entire floor of nicotine-stinking, flashing/clamoring gambling machines and tables just to get to the hotel checkin, then from there to the elevators.

      Gee, it's almost like they're trying to manipulate everyone into gambling... surely not.

    2. Imhotep

      Re: Vegas Knows how to host a convention

      Yes, Vegas (and Orlando also) have the art of accomodating thousands down to a science. Wait: Can it be an art AND a science?

  6. ckm5

    Good riddance

    This and Dreamforce disrupt the city for a week, blocking a major thoroughfare. Never mind the tons of clueless drunk people fumbling from bar to party to bar.

    There are already way to many tourists in San Francisco, cutting down on the hoards is a good thing.

    1. David 132 Silver badge

      Re: Good riddance


      1. Fungus Bob Silver badge

        Re: Good riddance

        Nah, they're "hoards". They keep all their ill gotten loot in hoard-houses...

    2. Phil Endecott Silver badge

      Re: Good riddance


    3. Imhotep

      Re: Good riddance

      Hey! Are you the guy I saw on a cable car abusing some French visitors because tourists were monopolizing the cars and the seats in them? I'm sure they went back home and described Americans in the same terms we used for the French.

    4. jake Silver badge

      Re: Good riddance

      On the other hand, from my perspective (approximately 58 miles due North), San Francisco is only good for attracting tourists to the State, thus increasing our coffers. Other than that, SF is pretty much useless ... Mostly thanks to the Board of Supervisors kowtowing to the vocal clueless these last 70 years or so, all in the Holy Name of Getting Reelected.

  7. ecofeco Silver badge


    For second I read that as open wound.

    Is there a difference?

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      Re: OpenWorld?

      An open wound will heal...

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: OpenWorld?

        "Time wounds all heels." — Marshall Reid & others, 1930s

  8. jake Silver badge

    At what point will San Francisco realize ...

    ... that the only thing that throwing billions of dollars at the homeless population does is attract more homeless, thus compounding the problem? I doubt that losing this trade show will do it, but the tipping point is getting close ... Maybe. Unfortunately, it would seem that the voters in SF actually enjoy their homeless population. Why else would they continue to vote the people into power who pledge to throw vast amounts of homeless attractant money at the problem?

    1. HCV

      Re: At what point will San Francisco realize ...

      In 2014, the City of San Francisco spent $167 million annually on housing homeless residents. By 2016, total spending (including housing and treatment) was believed to be $241 million annually.

    2. Rombizio

      Re: At what point will San Francisco realize ...

      They never will. They vote Democrat.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: At what point will San Francisco realize ...

      Exactly what should be done? There are many homeless who will never go into a shelter, let alone a hotel room or apartment. Trump wants to round them all up and put them in camps. Your ideas?

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: At what point will San Francisco realize ...

        In a free society, there will always be a few who choose to live the life of a Hobo, Tramp or Bum (three completely different groups of people, BTW). In my opinion, as long as they aren't doing anything illegal they should be allowed to carry on doing what they are doing. It's none of my business to tell you how to live your life, period. All things being equal, this very small percentage of people is spread out over the entire population, and there is no major overload on the resources that they need in any one community.

        San Francisco throwing huge amounts of money to "help" all these people who choose the lifestyle is doing more harm than good, in the sense that it concentrates these people in one place, placing the burden on a very small percentage of the space our society has available. Worse, it drags in all the people who think that life owes them a handout, and otherwise deserve to be taken care of, to the detriment of the vast majority who choose not to live that lifestyle. If SF's money could be spread out to programs across the country, so there was no competition for space among these folks, we wouldn't have the issues we have today.

        Or, if SF pulled back all resources and only helped their own home-grown homeless, or perhaps only the homeless from the Bay Area, SF would no longer have the problem because the rest of the people would dissipate all by themselves.

        With that said, there are certain members of society who do NOT choose the lifestyle. For example, the folks who have recently been made homeless by the wildfires here in California. These folks need all the help they can get. I have eight families living in RVs here at the ranch. They have water, power, propane, Internet, we dug a septic system for them, and found a couple of washers and dryers to turn an old barn into a laundry. They will be here as long as they need to be, rent free and utilities paid, no questions asked, until they can go home again. Four from the Tubbs fire of a couple years ago have gone home, one other is about to. They have been replaced by four more families. It's the least I can do.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Vegas, baby, Vegas

    There aren't many cities that can host mega-conferences of tens of thousands. In Vegas it's called Tuesday.

  10. Duncan Macdonald Silver badge

    Oracle going to Lost Wages

    How appropriate given the number of times that they have tried to stop their salesmen (and women) from getting their commission.

  11. fredesmite Bronze badge

    Moscone Center area has been a open sewer for 20 years

    Having to step over homeless , smelly drunk and crack addicts to get in the building has been a sporting event most professions never had to try

    So what took them so long ?

  12. Sebastian Brosig

    Smell of urine...

    At least some of that can be attributed to the city appointing people to clear up after its homeless residents. I think I read it here in the vulture's own pages that a poop-a-scooper job is worth $150k in SF.

    If they did the decent thing and built some public toilets instead it would probably be cheaper but hey that would actually be humane, so no.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Smell of urine...

      The public toilets exist. And a bunch of portapotties, too. Unfortunately, a number of the "street people" refuse to use them. It would appear that a percentage of these folks are a suit or two shy of a full deck ... but in ultra politically correct San Francisco, it's not expedient to one's career to point out the painfully obvious.

      There are laws on the books against public urination and defecation, but if a cop tries to ticket an offender, they are shouted down by loudmouthed howlers screaming about "human rights" ... These people are so warped that they think that homeless people have a god given right to crap on the sidewalk, but the taxpayers who actually pay for those sidewalks don't have a right to use them without stepping in, or at the very least gagging on the smell of human shit.

      Similar for hard-core drug use. I've seen a junkie shooting up right in front of a cop. When queried, the cop told me that they have a hands-off policy for such things. It would be funny if it weren't true.

      It's been getting worse with each passing year for decades now. But the high-tech millennials and hipsters fight each other to move to this human-sty of a City. And then they vote to keep the people who allow the mess to stay in power. And they vote to increase the amount of money the City is paying to react to the problem, thus attracting more homeless. What the fuck is THAT all about, anyway? Are they really as brain dead as they appear? Seems they actually LIKE the status quo.

      The mind absolutely boggles.

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