back to article RISC-V business: Tech foundation moving to Switzerland because of geopolitical concerns

The RISC-V Foundation, which directs the development of an open-source instruction set architecture for CPUs, will incorporate in Switzerland. Currently it is a non-stock corporation in Delaware, USA. RISC-V enables open-source hardware. "The worldwide interest in RISC-V is not because it is a great new chip technology, the …

  1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "There are not many prominent examples of technology companies fleeing the US for fear of political restrictions," - Yet.

    1. phuzz Silver badge

      Although the efforts to get the PGP source code outside the US* might have been an early precursor.

      * (Legally. The source had already been leaked onto the internet, but that was technically illegal to use in the US. However, a book containing the source code falls under the first amendment, and could freely be exported, then scanned and OCR'd.)

      1. iron Silver badge

        I remember it well, I had both electronic and paper copies back in the day.

        1. BillG
          WTF?

          Swiss Miss Incorporation

          Calista Redmond, in which she said: "From around the world, we've heard that 'If the incorporation was not in the US, we would be a lot more comfortable',"

          Maybe I'm the only person here involved in RISC-V, but I never heard any serious concerns about this first-hand. I've had people tell me rumors they heard, but no major entity was ever concerned themselves.

          I suggest people look into the deep financial benefits of incorporating in Switzerland. While the USA and U.K. have corporate tax rates of 35% and 28% respectively, Swiss land is 7.8%. Personal income taxes are very low. There are also significant privacy advantages.

          RISC-V also has serious competition from open-source MIPS architectures which have code-size, performance, and existing market presence advantages compared to RISC-V.

          1. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

            Re: Swiss Miss Incorporation

            "While the...U.K. [has] corporate tax rates of....28%..."

            I think you'll find it's 19%. [SOURCE: gov.uk]

            Imagine all the services we could fund if it was 28%. Or, shudder, the American 35%. But, no, the world will collapse if we don't get it down to 17%.

            Yes, I know the Tories are going to stick at 19%, for the time being. But this is a party political broadcast on behalf of the ABC party.

            1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

              Re: Swiss Miss Incorporation

              Corbyn would shove it back up if he got the chance. But 7.8% is lower than either 17% or 19% so the OP's argument still stands.

              1. Halfmad Silver badge

                Re: Swiss Miss Incorporation

                Corbyn wouldn't have any companies operating here worth taxing, some would be make public and the rest would leave so they didn't have to give away 1% of their shares a year for the first 10 years of a Labour government.

                UK political parties (all of) are complete bonkers these days.

          2. mevets

            Re: Swiss Miss Incorporation

            No concerns? Watching the Huawei circus, I don't see how any US company wouldn't have concerns, especially in the IP space.

          3. whitepines Silver badge
            Facepalm

            Re: Swiss Miss Incorporation

            MIPS? The same MIPS that just rescinded their not-exactly-open-ISA stuff entirely?

            The only open competitor to RISC-V is OpenPOWER, and that could definitly be a serious threat to RISC-V outside of the microcontroller space. Only time will tell.

            1. StargateSg7 Bronze badge

              Re: Swiss Miss Incorporation

              There this one too which we are CONSIDERING making fully open source! And since its an entirely Canadian-origin design, no US legal system interference is possible.

              60 GHz GaAs Combined CPU/GPU/DSP/Vector and Array Processor:

              https://www.reddit.com/r/Supercomputers/comments/dx4c74/128bits_wide_gaas_superworkstationsuperserver/

              I think this might fit the bill as viable competition ESPECIALLY since it's been tested at 575 TeraFLOPS SUSTAINED on 128-bits wide Floating Point Numbers!

              .

          4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: Swiss Miss Incorporation

            "I've had people tell me rumors they heard"

            If the rumours were disadvantageous to RISC-V then the time to go is while they're still rumours. When they're no longer rumours it's too late.

          5. onemark03

            Re: Swiss Miss Incorporation

            And there's decent (if private) medical insurance. And it's compulsory, too.

          6. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Swiss Miss Incorporation

            "While the USA and U.K. have corporate tax rates of 35% and 28% respectively, "

            Yes and? Corporate tax is *paid from profit* and non-profit corporation doesn't have any.

            In US that pure theory anyway, no corporation actually pays 35% tax and typical corporate tax is exactly $0. There are so much loopholes in tax legislation that paying taxes, *any taxes*, is purely voluntary.

            No profit, exactly 0 tax. In any country, in any currency.

            "deep financial benefits" Like avoiding $0 of taxes. Right.

            Living in Switzerland is very, very expensive and "low tax bracket" is almost irrelevant when everything costs 2*.

            It would be nice if commenters engaged brain first and wrote afterwards and not the other way round.

            1. gnasher729 Silver badge

              Re: Swiss Miss Incorporation

              Just saying: Non-profit organisations don't have to precisely balance income and cost, so they _can_ have profit, and they'd have to pay tax on it. They just can't let anyone take the profit away, they can only keep it in a bank account and spend it in the next year.

            2. Buzz Buzz Buzz

              Re: Swiss Miss Incorporation

              Just FYI - non profit does not mean no taxes in the US. This is a misunderstanding.

              Depending up on the type of non-profit and the source of the income, tax rates of 1 -2 % are applied.

              For some non-mission related income, technically known as Unrelated Business Income,or UBI, the standard corporate rates (~27%) are used.

          7. W.S.Gosset Silver badge

            Delware, not Switzerland, is the tax shelter

            Most people are unaware that Delaware set out to be a corporate shelter jurisdiction, in terms of tax and of privacy. In the 70s or 80s, IIRC.

            It succeeded.

            .

            * Tax=0% , essentially

            * Privacy rules ~same as the Switzerland of yore. (CH had to crank open the gates after various scandals eg Panama Papers)

            .

            Most of the "traditional" tax-/oversight- dodging jurisdictions have in fact had to open up sharply in the last decade or so -- don't bother with Switzerland, for example. But the non-traditional / unknown-to-nonbusinessmen jurisdictions have blossomed. Including various surprising pockets within the USofA like Delaware.

            1. Benson's Cycle

              Re: Delware, not Switzerland, is the tax shelter

              Washington was in fact crossing the Delaware to minimise his tax.

          8. katrinab Silver badge

            Re: Swiss Miss Incorporation

            Federal tax is 8.5%. You pay tax to the Canton and the City in addition to that. The total tax payable ranges between 12.9% in Zug to 28% in Delémont.

          9. Bruce Hoult

            Re: Swiss Miss Incorporation

            > I suggest people look into the deep financial benefits of incorporating in Switzerland.

            > While the USA and U.K. have corporate tax rates of 35% and 28% respectively,

            >Swiss land is 7.8%. Personal income taxes are very low.

            It's a non-profit. There are no profits and therefore no taxes anywhere.

            > RISC-V also has serious competition from open-source MIPS architectures which

            > have code-size, performance, and existing market presence advantages compared

            > to RISC-V.

            Existing market presence,yes, I don't think there are a lot of high performance MIPS processors around by modern standards -- but I'd love to be educated. The code size thing is just rubbish. RISC-V has a big code size advantage over MIPS, except for the apparently stillborn NanoMIPS announced in May 2018 which has disappeared without trace.

            Also MIPS Open has reportedly been quietly closed down already. I've confirmed that the signup page no longer exists and many others 404.

            https://www.hackster.io/news/wave-computing-closes-its-mips-open-initiative-with-immediate-effect-zero-warning-e88b0df9acd0

          10. holmegm Bronze badge

            Re: Swiss Miss Incorporation

            "I suggest people look into the deep financial benefits of incorporating in Switzerland. While the USA and U.K. have corporate tax rates of 35% and 28% respectively, Swiss land is 7.8%. Personal income taxes are very low. There are also significant privacy advantages."

            Low taxes? Oh dear. They must be eeeevil racists? (That's usually what a low tax position gets you called elsewhere.)

            1. phuzz Silver badge
              WTF?

              Re: Swiss Miss Incorporation

              As other comments point out, Switzerland has additional taxes which put it more inline with other countries.

              Anyway, don't most people associate low taxes with tax havens like Luxembourg and the Caymen Islands? Not sure where racists come into it, generally tax havens are much more interested in the colour of someone's money rather than their skin.

              Perhaps you should have a word with your fevered imagination holmegm?

          11. Cavehomme_

            Re: Swiss Miss Incorporation

            Some facts about Switzerland that may possibly clarify some slight misconceptions:

            Corporation tax varies according to Canton, there are very large variations between them. To quote PWC:

            "the overall approximate range of the maximum CIT rate on profit, before tax for federal, cantonal, and communal taxes is between 11.4% and 24.2%, depending on the company’s location of corporate residence in Switzerland"

            http://taxsummaries.pwc.com/ID/Switzerland-Corporate-Taxes-on-corporate-income

            Personal income taxes also vary significantly according to Canton and Commune that one lives. Whilst generally lower than elsewhere in Europe, what those rates omit is that their is no NHS to pay for, and the cheapest private health insurance PER person is around CHF 7000 per annum!!! (USD 7000, GBP 5,500). For a family it's a very big chunk and increasing each year unlike salaries.

            1. Loud Speaker

              Re: Swiss Miss Incorporation

              the cheapest private health insurance PER person is around CHF 7000 per annum!!!<P>

              According to my Swiss relatives, that insurance will also cover rescuing you from the top of the Alps with helicopters if necessary, or repatriating you if you fall sick in another country - even if it requires chartering a plane. Given that Switzerland is a small country - so people travel to other countries a lot, and the population is prone to Skiing, these are substantial benefits. <p>

              As I understand it, without Obamacare, even a sticking plaster could cost you CHF7000 in America, once you include "medical charges".

      2. jelabarre59 Silver badge

        However, a book containing the source code falls under the first amendment, and could freely be exported, then scanned and OCR'd.)

        Of course, scanning text can still be problematic, especially with the ever increasing size of code these days. Better convert those listings to barcode/QR code as well.

    2. Flywheel Silver badge

      It may become a trend..

      What I'm really intrigued about is what happens if Trump is impeached and (say) Hillary Clinton gets in. Would we see a collective sigh of relief and companies going back to the US? I would imagine that a lot of the laws Trump passed would also get thrown out. Just guessing at this stage though.

      1. Imhotep

        Doesn't Work Like That

        "I would imagine that a lot of the laws Trump passed would also get thrown out."

        Trump has not passed any laws. Those are written and passed by congress. Trump can sign or veto a bill - a 2/3 majority is required to over-ride a presidential veto.

        If Trump was impeached and removed from office, VP Pence would be the replacement.

        1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

          Re: Doesn't Work Like That

          If Trump was impeached and removed from office, VP Pence would be the replacement.

          Which is exactly why Trump won't be impeached (or assassinated for that matter).

      2. DougS Silver badge

        As stated, Hillary cannot become president no matter how many people were impeached. Wouldn't an easier and far more likely example be "if a democrat wins the election next year"?

        A lot of the executive orders he did that don't require congressional approval, like placement of tariffs on China, could be undone with the stroke of a pen. Just like Trump undid a lot of Obama's executive orders, but wasn't able to undo Obamacare since it required congress to vote on it. Likewise if a democrat wanted to undo Trump's tax cuts they'd have to get congress to approve it, since that was not / cannot be done via executive order.

        1. YourNameHere

          As stated, Hillary cannot become president no matter how many people were impeached. Wouldn't an easier and far more likely example be "if a democrat wins the election next year"?

          Thats not what Fox News says...

          1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

            And you believe Fox News? In that case I have a very good business deal for you, cash in advance please.

        2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          A lot of the executive orders he did that don't require congressional approval, like placement of tariffs on China, could be undone with the stroke of a pen.

          Maybe. The Clinton Foundation is running out of cash, so if pen's to cheque, anything is possible. Problem is Democrats aren't necessarily any better than Republicans. So all the anti-Russia hysteria, sanctions and tariffs. Same may be applied to China, eg Huawei etc, especially if it's to 'protect ordinary Americans', which roughly translated means lobbyists. They're frequently partisan and will lobby for their own industries, regardless of who's propping up the Resolute desk.

          1. jmch Silver badge

            "Democrats aren't necessarily any better than Republicans"

            Both mainstream democrats and mainstream republicans are what would, in Europe, be classed as solidly right-wing parties who are friendly to businesses, pork, graft, business-as-usual and favouring the 'big guy' over the common people.

            Left-wing democrats are vaguely sane on economic policy (recognising, for example, the massive and growing inequality and the disappearance of social mobility in the US). They are however totally insane as regards immigration policy (which is basically "anyone who ever comes in is welcome to stay forever") and race/gender policy (which is basically "straight white males are the enemy who should be penalised for historical crimes and everyone else should be compensated, all such penalisation/compensation to be strictly based on identity-group ad not the actual individual")

            Trumpian republicans are... well, I have no idea, it's whatever Trump says and there seems to be no rhyme or reason to that beyond his own personal interest

      3. DavCrav Silver badge

        "What I'm really intrigued about is what happens if Trump is impeached and (say) Hillary Clinton gets in."

        Trump -> Pence -> Pelosi -> Grassley -> Pompeo.

        Now Trump, Pence and Pompeo are all up to their necks in the Ukraine crimes, but Pelosi appears not to be a criminal, so any impeachment run should stop there.

        1. YourNameHere

          Trump impeached equals Hillary Clinton getting in?? Someone has been watching Fox News to much...

          1. holmegm Bronze badge

            "Trump impeached equals Hillary Clinton getting in?? Someone has been watching Fox News to much"

            Um ... huh? Is blurting out "Fox News" some kind of Tourette's syndrome thing?

            Has anyone at Fox News ever made such an outlandish claim about presidential succession?

        2. DougS Silver badge

          Even if both Trump and Pence were impeached

          They wouldn't be impeached at the same time. If Trump was impeached first, Pence becomes president and gets to appoint a vice president (with senate confirmation, which would be easy since there is a republican majority)

          Presumably he wouldn't pick someone up to his/her neck in Trump's Ukraine swamp like Pompeo, so even if Pence was impeached next that new VP would become president. Impeachment could never go down the succession line because even if republican senators found their balls and realized the depth's of Trump's crimes they'd never agree to back to back removal votes that left no room for Pence to appoint a VP.

          1. BillG
            Holmes

            Re: Even if both Trump and Pence were impeached

            DougS wrote: They wouldn't be impeached at the same time. If Trump was impeached first, Pence becomes president and gets to appoint a vice president (with senate confirmation, which would be easy since there is a republican majority)

            During the Bill Clinton impeachment hearings it was theorized that Bill Clinton could step down, making Al Gore the new Pres. Gore could then appoint Bill Clinton VP. If approved and if done early enough in Bill's 2nd term, Bill could have run for re-election for a 3rd term.

            1. jmch Silver badge

              Re: Even if both Trump and Pence were impeached

              "During the Bill Clinton impeachment hearings it was theorized that Bill Clinton could step down, making Al Gore the new Pres. Gore could then appoint Bill Clinton VP. If approved..."

              Although in theory this is possible, I find it hard to imagine. Impeachment requires a senate 2/3 majority. In what world would the senate who just impeached Clinton/Trump by 2/3 majority then vote to reappoint him VP??? In practice there's no way the old VP / new P would propose the old P as new VP

          2. jmch Silver badge

            Re: Even if both Trump and Pence were impeached

            "They wouldn't be impeached at the same time. If Trump was impeached first, Pence becomes president and gets to appoint a vice president (with senate confirmation, which would be easy since there is a republican majority)"

            This.

            Pelosi would not become President whatever happens to Trump and/or Pence

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Even if both Trump and Pence were impeached

            "The Ukraine Swamp"

            That'll be Biden Snr and Jnr then. It's on the record that Jnr was landed a Ukranian job earning $50k per month with absolutely zero experience of the gas industry nor prior contaxcts with Ukraine.

            The unDemocratic party coup in Ukraine was to place the country directly under the control of the US and those in charge at the time enriched themselves.

            Not only is that fact conveniently ignored by the US presstitutes, but they are also completely ignorant of how close the world came to WW3 and a nuclear conflict because of the coup and the resultant war upon the ethnic Russians living in the eat of the country, and Crimea too.

            I expect plenty of downvotes, but that'll be the consequency of people living in their echo chambers and swallowing hook, line and sinker what the Corporate News Network churns out.

            1. jmch Silver badge

              Re: Even if both Trump and Pence were impeached

              Irrespective of whether Biden Was actually corrupt, withholding foreign aid u less Ukraine investigates Biden is a textbook case of asking a foreign power to intervene in US politics.

              That is not only an impeacable offense, it is the exact case for which the founding fathers conceived the idea of impeachment

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          but Pelosi appears not to be a criminal...

          HAH! Maybe to you hand-wringing left-wingers, but in the **REAL** world...

      4. W.S.Gosset Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Arse-about

        > if Trump is impeached and (say) Hillary Clinton gets in. Would we see a collective sigh of relief and companies going back to the US?

        Ermmm... what? That's exactly the wrong way round.

        You clearly have never had any sort of contact with any sort of business, US or otherwise.

        The US's tax regime had been driving companies and their money out of the US for many many years. Usually "under the hood" by US companies' figurehead-shingle staying in USA but most actual business being run under offshore companies. The money was kept offshore and in tax shelters because to bring it back or even to publicly reinvest it would trigger US taxes. ~US$2 trillion IIRC.

        Nevertheless, many companies were still leaving in-toto, and the rate/$ize was increasing. Google "tax inversions". e.g., "inversions and other income-shifting techniques reduced Treasury revenues by as much as $111 billion in 2012." Obama's time, you'll notice.

        Trump's early tax changes are worth reading in detail. They were excruciatingly dull. And surprisingly smart. Nearly all of that offshore money is now intra USA and invested, and a number of other less obvious tax redtape excruciations have been able to be literally wiped from the books because the subtle changes eliminated the loopholes and scheme-incentives which the redtape was imposed to block.

        Key point: I have seen NO tax inversions initiated since Trump's tax changes.

        To be clear: where companies were actually completely leaving the USA and in increasing numbers and size, the entire syndrome has vanished.

        To be clear: you are exactly the wrong way round.

        .

        Trump is on a personal level a ratbag but on a professional level knows his stuff. One's attitude to him depends on whether you regard politics as a job with serious consequences, or as status theatre.

  2. Rich 2 Silver badge

    So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

    I've said before that I don't understand why so many open source projects are incorporated in the US. Considering American companies' (and individuals) lust for suing each other for ...well ...pretty much anything, it seems like a very dangerous place for any company with shallow pockets. Add on to that the latest nutty ideas from the their illustrious leader of the day, and it seems bonkers to stay incorporated there.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

      Because it doesn't make any difference.

      The USA can still ban the export and explain to the directors that their employers can also go on the naughty list if they don't cooperate

      Of course anyone involved can explain the niceties of Swiss incorporation and international jurisdiction to the SWAT team coming through their door.

      1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

        Re: So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

        There is a considerable difference between stopping something going out and stopping something coming in.

        The RISC-V Foundation have taken the entirely sensible step of being able to continue to serve the rest of the world no matter what Trump or America decides to do, no matter what control she seeks to exert, what self-harm she indulges in.

        Whether other rats will leave the sinking ship remains to be seen. There are definite gains to be had from jumping ship early ahead of those lingering and having to play catch-up, as those who are fleeing the UK over brexit have realised. The single droplet could turn into a steady trickle and even a deluge.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

        "Of course anyone involved can explain the niceties of Swiss incorporation and international jurisdiction to the SWAT team coming through their door."

        Alternatively they can just leave a note for the SWAT team that they've upped sticks and gone. Oh, I forgot, US citizenship doesn't include the right to travel does it? It's like the middle ages in Europe - you have to get permission from the lord of the manor to move elsewhere.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

          >Alternatively they can just leave a note for the SWAT team that they've upped sticks and gone

          The people working on it are still mostly in the USA, it is only the brass plaque that has moved to toblerone land. The list of companies involved (STM, NVIDIA, IBM) still need to stay off Uncle Sam's naughty list.

          If a Chinese company wanted to use RISC it probably doesn't matter to them if the lawyer they are ignoring is a redneck or a gnome.

          1. DavCrav Silver badge

            Re: So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

            "it is only the brass plaque that has moved to toblerone land."

            Actually, the brass plaque is moving from Toblerone land: it's owned by Mondelez, which is a US corporation.

          2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

            "The people working on it are still mostly in the USA"

            The point that Rich 2 was making was the wider one about open source projects in general. People contribute to open source from all over the world. It would be very difficult for the likes of Trump to split out contributions from US citizens. It would, however, be somewhat easier to lean on any US-based infrastructure including foundations that support projects. Not that it would make too much difference - the projects themselves would be out from under as quickly as you can say "fork".

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

        "... to the SWAT team coming through their door."

        Good luck trying that in Switzerland. They are kind of picky to *anyone with arms* coming to country. Double that if coming from USA.

        Swiss army isn't large but it's well funded and very capable.

        1. jmch Silver badge

          Re: So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

          "Swiss army isn't large but it's well funded and very capable."

          and to qualify that... Switzerland has conscription, all Swiss have to do military service. So while the *standing* army isn't large, there are plenty of reservists.

          And yes, very well funded and trained

          1. Cavehomme_

            Re: So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

            ...and don't forget that most Swiss homes have -

            a) an army issued rifle in the keller / cave / cantina, ready to use if invaded, and / or a personal one or two too.

            b) a nuclear shelter in the keller / cave / cantina, ready to use if the friction between NATO and Russia goes a bit too far.

            c) a large stock of wine, beer, food and other essentials in the keller / cave / cantina in case

            My nickname might give you a clue as to where I spend most of my time, it's where my office is located too, very convenient for whenever Trump and Putin fall out ;o)

            1. F Seiler

              Re: So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

              The proper home for an stgw 90 or 57 is either the wardrobe or cleaning cupboard

        2. hplasm Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

          "Swiss army isn't large but it's well funded and very capable."

          And have knives...

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

        "The USA can still ban the export and explain to the directors that their employers can also go on the naughty list if they don't cooperate"

        That's called "shooting yourself in the foot" and only US people are too selfish (or outright stupid) to realize it.

        US banning exporting something is 'so what' to rest of the world nowadays.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

      "I've said before that I don't understand why so many open source projects are incorporated in the US."

      A lot aren't physically in any particular place unless you count a Github server and maybe it's time to rethink that in favour of one hosted by a business outside the US. Some are in Germany including NextCloud , KDE and the Document Foundaton. AIUI German law has advantages for registering such organisations. Dyne.org who support Devuan is in the Netherlands and the devuan.org domain is registered in Italy.

    3. JanMeijer

      Re: So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

      Perhaps people are simply following the example of others? Besides, creating a legal-administrative home for your open source project is hard work. That's why I'm happy my project is at a European software conservancy foundation incorporated in the Netherlands.

    4. rcxb Bronze badge

      Re: So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

      I don't understand why so many open source projects are incorporated in the US.

      Most startup angel investors are US based, and most top high-tech companies are as well.

      The US is so large of a market that the vast majority of multinationals have a business presence there, anyhow, and are already beholden to and complying with the laws and regulations there. So call it lowest-common denominator mutual commonalities.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

        "Most startup angel investors are US based"

        If you really want a start-up to be showered with silly money Japan and Softbank seems to be the place to go.

    5. Venerable and Fragrant Wind of Change

      Re: So obvious, why doesn't everyone do it?

      I've said before that I don't understand why so many open source projects are incorporated in the US.

      Some years back I heard a conference presentation where MySQL addressed that question. Cultural reasons why the project had to have originated in Scandinavia, but also why it had had to move to the US for growth to happen. Events that led to a profitable buyout in the US.

      I was only partially convinced by the presentation (was that WayForward Technologies' Reason speaking?), and I don't recollect details. But it kind-of fits with the US being home to so much.

  3. STOP_FORTH
    Linux

    Open Source

    Thank goodness Linus Torvalds lives in Finland.

    What? When did this happen?

  4. karlkarl Bronze badge

    I know that OpenBSD mainly residing in canada is quite a bonus for encryption laws.

  5. Luke Worm
    Linux

    Linux, Wikimedia, and others. Please move.

  6. Aladdin Sane Silver badge
    Coat

    Of the reasons to move, the flag is a big plus.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Subtle but brilliant.

    2. GBE

      Kudos!

      That one took a couple beats to sink in. :)

      1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

        Re: Kudos!

        I will add my appreciation to that...

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Of the reasons to move, the flag is a big plus.

      It's like Gary Delaney or Milton Jones was in the room

      1. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

        Re: Of the reasons to move, the flag is a big plus.

        Nah, my room's padded an I get given a great jacket with lots of buckles.

  7. Lorribot

    Apple et al to follow?

    Wonder if Apple, Amazon and Alphabet will follow to avoid all those issue about the cash piles, where better to hide all that money than a Swiss bank account?

    Just to note whilst it has a big economy, the US has less than 5% of the population of the planet, there quite a few other people in the world (and none of them use the US date format).

  8. PracticalApplications

    This is just the beginning

    I encourage all standards bodies to consider relocating somewhere more neutral as well. JEDEC, PCISIG, and so on.

    Europe seems to be the level headed choice. Look at France for example. ETSI in Nice.

    Let's face it, the US is at the point of throwing hissy fits and acting like a spoiled middle schooler when they don't get their way. Diplomatic relations are now held when a US opponent (or friend) is held over a barrel with a gun to their head.

    Technology standards help lower costs and create higher quality goods in an open capital market system. I for one applaud RISC-V Foundation for being the first. Line forms behind them now.....

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What About World War 3?

    If there ever were another major world conflict, $deity forbid, having a technological advantage over one's adversaries is important. From a strategic point of there's a big disadvantage in permitting the spread of technology before such a conlict breaks out. Open source is, essentially, incompatible with trying to win a major war.

    On the other hand, open source is part of preventing a major conflict breaking out in the first place. It's part of normalising international relationships; no one is trying to disadvantage anyone, not for commercial or strategic gain.

    Where it goes wrong is if conflict prevention fails, some ludicrous state starts the conflict anyway and they've already got the tech to help them have a go at winning it. At that point, trying to unwind all the sharing that had previously taken place is harder than trying to squeeze the geni back into the lamp.

    So are we seeing the early signs of governments deciding that there's been way too much technology sharing going on unfettered? Might they have a point? I hope not. Only yesterday there's been articles in the UK about how some major universities have been found to have collaborative research programmes with what turns out to be Chinese military equipment companies. Guess where the money comes from? I don't know what a war footing for the open source community looks like, were it to become necessary, nor do we really know what the Internet looks like in a major conflict. Certainly, not having tight control over who can access one's national network sounds like a very bad idea in wartime, and having the intellectual property outside of one's national control (if it can ever said to be in a single nation in the first place) wouldn't help either.

    The problem governments have is that they do have to consider the doom/gloom scenarios - that's partly their job - but in democracies it's nearly impossible to get people to take these things seriously until the news headlines make it clear that it's too late. In authoritarian states they don't have that problem. The US sometimes can't even get its presidents to take their role in nuclear deterrence seriously; makes one wonder what the whole bleedin' point of it all is.

    I'm off to my fall out shelter and secret supply of comforting beer.

    1. Tom 7 Silver badge

      Re: What About World War 3?

      So are we seeing the early signs of governments deciding that there's been way too much technology sharing going on unfettered?

      No - its pure pig ignorance that drives it. I'm convinced the people that want to restrict sharing do not have the mental capacity to understand how things work, let alone how to make them work better.

    2. jmch Silver badge

      Re: What About World War 3?

      "having a technological advantage over one's adversaries is important"

      Important, maybe. Decisive, not so much. Arthur C Clarke's 'Superiority' spring to mind, as well as Nazi Germany vs Soviet Russia

      1. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

        Re: What About World War 3?

        As Uncle Joe said, "Quantity has a quality of its own."

  10. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Linux

    Only one question

    What took them so long?

    Oh, and a second question. When will everyone else do something simlar?

  11. Lars
    Coat

    The US is a magnet

    Well, according to Dr. Michio Kaku. That could of course change but I would still like to point out that the "Chosen one" will eventually go, described as "god like" on a Fox and Friends comment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK0Y9j_CGgM

    America Has A Secret Weapon

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