back to article Just Docker room talk: Container upstart's enterprise wing sold to Mirantis, CEO out, Swarm support faces ax

Docker has handed the Enterprise portion of its containerization business to Kubernetes cloud outfit Mirantis in a surprise sell-off. The move will see Mirantis take on all of the products, intellectual property, and customer contracts, and at least some of the employees, of the Docker Enterprise container management service. …

  1. J. R. Hartley Silver badge

    The title is no longer required.

    Kubernetes was always going to win.

    1. RyokuMas Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: The title is no longer required.

      "Kubernetes was always going to win."

      A while back I suggested trying the phrase "docker container orchestration" in various search engines - unsurprisingly, while most gave a variety of sources, at least everything above the fold on Google search was "Kubernetes".

      So of course it was always going to win, just like Chrome did - it's easy when the company behind it has the monopoly on web search and can load the results.

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: The title is no longer required.

        Or it could just be that Google recognised the need earlier and put more resources into it. It's no secret that GAE is how Google makes money from Kubernete.

        1. RyokuMas Silver badge
          Big Brother

          Re: The title is no longer required.

          ... and absolutely nothing to do with the amount of data that will be flowing through these containers, right?

          Have we learned nothing from Google's treatment of emails, wifi, etc.?

          1. Cowboy Bob

            Re: The title is no longer required.

            WTF are you on about? You do know how Kubernetes and Docker works right? And that no data goes through Google's systems when you use them?

            1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

              Re: The title is no longer required.

              No, he's just on anti-Google mission.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: No data goes through Google's systems when you use them?

              Of course it does.

              Containers run as forked processes in jails. On a Google machine. They don't magically run in a 'cloud' somewhere.

              1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

                Re: No data goes through Google's systems when you use them?

                What are you on about? Docker and Kubernetes can be used anywhere. They're not tied to Google-owned hardware.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Mirantis will not take on all of the employees

    They will take only a few of them and only for a short while.

    “We learn from history that we do not learn from history.” - Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel

  3. Cloudane

    Argh! What now?

    I just literally started learning Docker yesterday and wake up to this. So uh, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Most things on here are bad, right?

    Mostly interested for what I guess will be the "community" version (I'll use it at work, but they're not big or rich enough to call themselves an 'enterprise', so CentOS rather than SLES etc) but should I abandon it before they start screwing it over in some way?

    1. John70

      Re: Argh! What now?

      Maybe this will help with your decision.

      https://www.guru99.com/kubernetes-vs-docker.html

      1. Cloudane

        Re: Argh! What now?

        Thanks. I was a literal day 1 (well, day 0.5) newbie so this article was just really badly timed for me to come across - now gone through a couple of hours of tutorials and wishing I'd got into Docker years ago as it'll make at least my personal VPS much easier to manage and keep secure...

        With it being marketed towards the enterprise there's a massive wall of 'Enterprise IT Jargon (TM)' and 'Enterprise IT Block Diagrams of Doom (TM)' that act as a bit of a barrier to entry (which is why I never got around to even trying to learn how it works) and lost in all that was the confusion with the terminology. I found that this link helped to clear things up: https://www.sumologic.com/blog/kubernetes-vs-docker/

        If I understand correctly it sounds like this is something I won't need to worry about unless I come across a much more upscaled scenario that warrants an orchestrator (at which point now you'd go for the awkwardly named Kubernetes rather than Docker Swarm) but that at my level of 'one server' we're just working with Docker Engine and the Docker Hub which are here to stay and nothing to worry about.

        1. JoMomma

          Re: Argh! What now?

          I think you've got a good handle on it. There are many single instance kubernetes instances you can play with. Check out Code Ready Containers for one, but there are literally dozens more.

      2. katrinab Silver badge
        Flame

        Re: Argh! What now?

        The last line of that article tells you everything you need to know about Docker

        "The biggest drawback of Docker is that it doesn't provide any storage option."

        My (very limited) experience of Docker:

        It is really easy to install and get running, as in

        sudo apt install docker && sudo docker install containername

        If you want to do any post-install configuration to make the thing actually useful, that isn't so easy. It is much easier to set up a new virtual machine on your hypervisor platform and install it properly on that. That option will use a bit more RAM and storage space.

        I think that containers will evolve to end up looking a lot like virtual machines. In a few years time, the extra hardware resources required for that won't really be a problem.

        1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: Argh! What now?

          I think that containers will evolve to end up looking a lot like virtual machines. In a few years time, the extra hardware resources required for that won't really be a problem.

          Some research suggests that for many workloads, VMs are just as resource-efficient as containers.

          Back In The Day, IBM's VM was happily running dozens of virtual OS instances on S/370 systems with fewer resources than a smartphone. VMs can be very lightweight. Mostly the problem is bloated OS instances, and there are techniques such as the "library OS" model which fix that.

        2. 9Rune5

          Re: Argh! What now?

          " It is much easier to set up a new virtual machine on your hypervisor platform and install it properly on that."

          "It"? What is "it"?

          A piece of software?

          With docker, I am able to package my service into an image. I get to debug the same environment as what is used in production.

          With a VM, how do you update the service? Run an installer on the inside of the VM? What about dependencies? Update apache, maybe a little postgresql database? Do you end up with a similar configuration to what the developers have? Are these requirements documented? Do you read that documentation?

          1. katrinab Silver badge

            Re: Argh! What now?

            "What is "it"?"

            Meaning no. 5 in the Oxford Dictionary

            https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/it

            5. third person singular and with clause - Used to emphasize a following part of a sentence.

            How do I update?

            I duplicate the VM into my testing environment, run the update process, check it, repeat as necessary until it works, then snapshot the live environment and run the update there.

            My point is, for anything other than a quick demonstration of what the product looks like, I probably don't want it configured the same way as the developer, because my requirements are different; and I find it easier to customise a virtual machine to my requirements than to customise a docker image.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Argh! What now?

      > ... should I abandon it before they start screwing it over in some way?

      If you're on Linux, one of the more fun things when learning Docker is finding out that the command line tools they teach you in the official training (eg Docker Machine), were deprecated nearly a year ago. The Docker Machine repo on GitHub has been rejecting Pull Requests to add new functionality.

      Their suggested replacement... Docker Desktop. Which doesn't run on Linux.

      Then there's Docker's close-to-unusable IPv6 support. The documentation makes it look like you just need to enable one variable. Nope, IPv6 doesn't actually work unless you disable Docker management of it and configure the stack manually.

      This is not going to end well.

  4. ForthIsNotDead
    Alert

    I see a fork in 3...2...1...

    Fork.

    1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: I see a fork in 3...2...1...

      And then they'll change root.

  5. ForthIsNotDead
    Thumb Up

    Good article here

    Here's agood article showing the pros and cons of both Docker and Kubernetes.

    Note that Docker has been forked 15K times already! WTF!

    https://www.guru99.com/kubernetes-vs-docker.html

    1. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: Good article here

      Hat are we talking about here, Docker Swarm vs Kubernetrs, rather than Docker containers vs Kubernetes?

    2. Michael Hutchinson

      Re: Good article here

      And kubernetes has been forked 21k times. The number of forks isn't particularly meaningful.

      1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Good article here

        The number of forks isn't particularly meaningful.

        It is for the philosophers at the table.

        1. RegGuy1

          Re: Good article here

          Well I know Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle.

    3. andy 103

      Re: Good article here

      Docker and Kubernetes aren't interchangeable. It's not one vs the other. They do very different things.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: Good article here

        This is it. Also, Docker and Kubernetes are a mystery to anyone that doesn't use them, seems there is some misunderstanding here too.

  6. teknopaul Silver badge

    embrace, extend, extinguish

    Docker dev tool side of things got fscked by microsoft when they made a version that does not use oracle virtualbox and just happens to be incompatible with that approach. At least thats when I gave up on it. Our lot had a vagrant vs docker debate raging for a bit until Microsoft answered the question for us: vagrant.

    I do the new split enablems them to focus on getting the dev side of thing working

    1. katrinab Silver badge
      Flame

      Re: embrace, extend, extinguish

      Virtualbox doesn't strike me as something you would use in a serious enterprise setting.

      Then there is the great risk that you might face a large blackmail demand if you fail to untick the wrong box

      https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/04/oracle_virtualbox_merula/

  7. FuzzyWuzzys

    Vagrant

    Vagrant was killed, MS pushed their Docker fork to blank Virtualbox, I can see Docker as it is today being swalled up and lost. Shame as it's a great little technology.

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