I know the media make a lot of hay by implying that Linus can hardly opening his mouth without expelling a shit ton of invective, but I'm pretty sure that the much-celebrated expletive-laden outbursts have always been very much the exception rather than the rule.
A softer, gentler Linus Torvalds released the Linux 5.3 kernel over the weekend and swung open the doors on 5.4. Things were held up a little this time around, something Torvalds attributed to his travel schedule rather than anything more sinister. He was, however, pleased to note that the extra week meant that a few last- …
Tuesday 17th September 2019 10:07 GMT JDX
Not really justified, no. You have to ask yourself:
- if you worked somewhere where that was how you were treated, would you stay?
- would you talk to your children like that
- how would you react if someone else talked to your kid like that
- would you talk to your spouse/partner like that
- how would you react if someone else talked to your spouse/partner like that
- if your spouse/partner talked to you like that, what would your response be
I totally get that we don't all have to be nicey-nicey all the time, and someone doing something wrong needs to have that made very clear, but this isn't army boot camp. We don't need to 'break' people.
Tuesday 17th September 2019 12:01 GMT oiseau
May not be justified ...
Asking to be and then being accepted to work on Linus Torvald's kernel code, if anything at all, is a huge privilege and it assumes that you are (supposedly) equal to the task.
ie: that you have the necessary ability, talent, qualities and capability to accomplish a given role or handle a given situation, which in the context of coding for the Linux kernel, clearly means (among other things) being able to do it properly without behaving like an incompetent AH.
In this context, properly means following the kernel design rules set forth long ago by Torvalds, not acting like they are non-existent.
Like any of the DHs that repeatedly, over and over (and over) again insist in doing things that are clearly off the table, like ticking code in the kernel that can mess with existing users.
No wonder the guy goes off his rocker every so often.
Tuesday 17th September 2019 12:34 GMT Anonymous Coward
In almost all instances, Linus has lost it over kernel changes breaking user land AND the people responsible then saying I'm not responsible, it's someone else's fault for having bugs. Or in the case of the Google security team members suggestions around security fixes that would significantly increase development challenges on Linux, frankly bonkers.
The majority of the comparisons you make are for relationships where you have significant input/responsibility (family and friends) while the kernel development group allows all comers who show they are competent enough to carry out complex work.
Comparing the relationship Linus has to those working on kernel development to family/friends/etc may be accurate in some cases, but in the vast majority of cases, creates an impression of more communication outside what we are seeing on mailing lists and therefore more varied approaches dealing with inappropriate behaviour (i.e. the developers Linus is yelling at) and these are not always possible given deadlines/other time commitments for contributors.
If I worked in an environment where someone passionately cared about a project and was able to get a large team to work well together 99.9% of the time, it would take a lot for me to leave that. If I screwed up and broke something significant, costing people significant amounts of time, doing something that I shouldn't have been doing AND tried to defend my mistake by either blaming others or saying I wasn't wrong, then yes, I'd expect people to be pissed. But I wouldn't leave unless I was told to go.
Horses for courses...
Tuesday 17th September 2019 16:54 GMT cornetman
> - would you talk to your children like that
If one of my kids had set fire to the front room and despite everyone knowing exactly who the culprit was they denied it and blamed the cat, then yes I would tear a strip off them.
I have dealt with many people in the dev realm, and a small number of very clever people can be similarly the hardest to get through to when they fuck up. *Sometimes* anger and expletives are the only way to get through.
Tuesday 17th September 2019 04:36 GMT bombastic bob
I always figured that Linus has a TRUE PASSION for *QUALITY*, and NO tolerance for [expletive deleted]
(it could only get better if it were a Marine D.I. dressing down an incompetent recruit - and when you consider what it is the D.I. is attempting to do, it makes a LOT of sense to do it 'that way')
Monday 16th September 2019 19:02 GMT Notas Badoff
Monday 16th September 2019 20:41 GMT Crazy Operations Guy
Re: Double-plus good
The code is still in the source, you can bring it back with the proper incantations in your config. Developers can still test to see if their code breaks, but normal users aren't affected.
With the code, pushing audio over DisplayPort via an AMD Vega 56 card to a stereo-out jack on a monitor will cause PulseAudio will end up spewing mangled audio for a few seconds, then core dump.
Tuesday 17th September 2019 04:29 GMT bombastic bob
People relying on the previous behavior?
and now I'm wondering _exactly_ what that was...
I know there are some issues that cause 'priority inversion', such as when creating the locate database. So I have to wonder if it's something like that, where a 'nice'd process still causes everything ELSE to respond poorly (stuttering, delays, swapping, etc.) while it's running, even though it's basically going at the highest (aka lowest scheduling priority) possible 'renice' level...
and I'd have to wonder WHAT kind of thing actually RELIES on such a bug.... if it's that, anyway.
maybe a kernel option to 'fix' it?
Tuesday 17th September 2019 06:44 GMT Paul Hargreaves
Tuesday 17th September 2019 08:37 GMT Baldrickk
Re: People relying on the previous behavior?
How do people rely on that?
Edit: ah, I read the git commit message.
systemd using getRandom() (/dev/random) instead of /dev/urandom very early in the boot process, when there isn't enough entropy, causing the boot process to wait for entropy that never comes because the whole thing is stuck waiting for entropy... (ad nauseum)
(as opposed to my original "people rely on getting stuck on a call to getRandom()? upon reading your post)
Tuesday 17th September 2019 09:46 GMT Hans 1
Tuesday 17th September 2019 12:06 GMT Rich 2
Tuesday 17th September 2019 12:47 GMT Anonymous Coward
Tuesday 7th January 2020 19:31 GMT davcefai
I remember when he was foisting pulseaudio on us. His standard reply to bug reports was that it would get better soon. Frankly I cannot understand how Poettering has been allowed to screw up Linux with systemd. It goes against the basic philosophy of ONE tool doing ONE thing very well.
Which is why I dropped Debian for Devuan.