back to article The top three attributes for getting injured on e-scooters? Having no helmet, being drunk or drugged, oddly enough

Shock, horror: Young men, who are either drunk, high or both are more likely to get into electric scooter accidents, according to a new study. “Since their release in 2017, standing electric motorized scooters (eScooters) have risen in popularity as an alternative mode of transportation. We sought to examine the incidence of …

  1. ecofeco Silver badge

    Scooter stoopid

    The number one cause of scooter injuries are scooters. Scooters for adults has to be the perfect example of how fekking stupid the world has become.

    That they are a rental business is even more absurd.

    It was THE symbol of ridicule during the dot com boom/bust, yet people with too much money thought it was a good business model.

    How the hell are there people that stupid with that much money? No wonder the human race is FUBAR.

    1. Glen 1 Bronze badge

      Re: Scooter stoopid

      "The number one cause of scooter injuries are scooters. Scooters for adults has to be the perfect example of how fekking stupid the world has become.

      That they are a rental business is even more absurd."

      Replace the word "scooter" with "bicycle", and you will have a not uncommonly held opinion around these parts (that I don't share). Yes, bicycles are more stable, but that means fuck all if some idiot who shouldn't be driving sideswipes you.

      1. devTrail

        Re: Scooter stoopid

        Replace the word "scooter" with "bicycle", and you will have a not uncommonly held opinion around these parts (that I don't share). Yes, bicycles are more stable, but that means fuck all if some idiot who shouldn't be driving sideswipes you.

        That't false. With a bicycle you can make 10km long daily commutes to the office. With a scooter you can't travel those distances. People hold this view towards scooter users because they see them spending time and money on something inadequate as a mean of transport except for some leisure time. The bicycle is different and people take notice, in the Netherlands a lot of people don't even own a car. The real trouble is that ***** riding scooters with their slow pace are now beginning to clog the cycle lanes.

        1. Rupert Fiennes Silver badge

          Re: Scooter stoopid

          As I cyclist, I'd say the scooters are going at around the average cyclist speed in city traffic. That being said, given the London pothole and wobbly tarmac situation, you wouldn't find me riding one :-(

          1. Joe W Silver badge

            Re: Scooter stoopid

            As Cyclist anything slower than 20 km/h (the legal limit for e-scooters here) is incredibly slow.

            1. Chris Parsons

              Re: Scooter stoopid

              Not if you're 70 and live in Cornwall it's not.

            2. Rupert Fiennes Silver badge

              Re: Scooter stoopid

              Given the number of traffic lights, getting above 20 km/h is rare :-)

            3. ArrZarr Silver badge
              Go

              Re: Scooter stoopid

              Depending on personal fitness and tiredness, of course.

              I'm usually happy if I average 22kph over the commute when cycling.

          2. Dr Dan Holdsworth Silver badge
            WTF?

            Re: Scooter stoopid

            For years, the cycling and mountain biking world has been grappling with the knotty problem of rough tracks and wheels, and the tendency of front wheels to vanish into pot-holes, stop and send the rider flying. There is even a joke club for those thus affected: The Over-The-Bars Club or OTBC, and pretty much every cyclist is a member.

            The smaller the wheel, the greater the risk of a pothole-induced dismount. This is why mountain bikes started out at 26" and are currently around 29" or even more on e-MTBs. This is also why road cycles use wheels around the 27" size, and why only the craziest of folding bike users go below 18"; the smaller the wheel, the more dangerous the bike.

            Scooters have wheels around 6" in diameter. They are death-traps, and this is why.

            1. imanidiot Silver badge

              Re: Scooter stoopid

              Jup, been there, done that. Managed to escape without any significant physical injury.

              1. MOV r0,r0

                Re: Scooter stoopid

                I'm improving - practice makes perfect!

            2. A K Stiles

              Re: Scooter stoopid

              Where do I apply for my membership card?

              Rather than potholes, my experience was an effort to avoid running straight in to a group of teens walking 5 abreast along the cycle way, with their faces buried in their mobile phones. One had the good grace to at least glance up from their phone to check I was still conscious before disappearing back into their digital nirvana once more.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Scooter stoopid

            As I cyclist, yadda yadda , you wouldn't find me riding one :-(

            Given that they are illegal to ride on the road or pavement in the UK

        2. macjules Silver badge

          Re: Scooter stoopid

          Not to mention that the sort of cretins who use scooters, especially the electric ones, yet don’t think that they have to use them on roads. Can understand this in Holland or Germany where there are lanes, but in the UK this is court case waiting to happen. By the way, the electric ones I have seen in Vienna and Berlin can be very fast indeed.

          1. Baldrickk Silver badge

            Re: Scooter stoopid

            In the UK, they are technically not allowed on the road, footpath or anywhere in public - use on private property only.

          2. ICPurvis47 Bronze badge
            Devil

            Re: Scooter stoopid

            Oops! In the UK it is illegal to use these on the roads, pavements, or cycleways, they are only legal for use on private property. They are powered vehicles and as such must be registered (which means they have to carry working lights, number plates, etc.) and insured.

            1. Ian Johnston

              Re: Scooter stoopid

              Electrically powered bicycles don't need to be registered or insured.

              1. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

                Re: Scooter stoopid

                If it doesn't have pedals (and a seat probably) then it isn't a "bicycle".

                1. Symon Silver badge
                  Childcatcher

                  Re: Scooter stoopid

                  Rules for e-bikes:-

                  https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules

                  "What counts as an EAPC:- An EAPC must have pedals that can be used to propel it."

                  1. Tom 35 Silver badge

                    Re: Scooter stoopid

                    At least here (Ontario Canada) e-bike limits are a joke. While there are the ones that are built like a bike with a motor added most are more like electric Vespas. The pedals are too far back to actually use, give you a top speed of about 2 kph, or lately are just cosmetic and don't work at all. Ones sold with battery banks in parallel designed to be trivial to connect in series to produce illegal speed. One passed me doing at least 50 in a 40 zone the other day. Since they need no licence or insurance they are popular with people who lost their licence for DWI or can't afford insurance due to accidents or tickets.

            2. DuncanLarge Silver badge

              Re: Scooter stoopid

              It amazes me that people bother to buy these things considering that restriction.

              Bascally they only can be used on private land, presumably that means you need to own a house with a large paved area out the front or back. I dont think many people own such property.

              Then you can only ride around in circles...

          3. imanidiot Silver badge

            Re: Scooter stoopid

            Fortunately electric scooters (scooters as in the article, not scooters as in the small streamlined motorcycle variety) are also not allowed in the Netherlands. (Not on the cycle paths, not on the roads, not on the sidewalk/footpaths)

        3. Glen 1 Bronze badge

          Re: Scooter stoopid

          "10km commutes"

          And If your only going 2-3 miles to a train station? Far enough to think twice about walking, ridiculously short for a car - which will then be left in the car park. Scooters look to be easier to collapse and carry, as opposed to the Brompton fiddlyness

        4. Tom 38 Silver badge

          Re: Scooter stoopid

          That't false. With a bicycle you can make 10km long daily commutes to the office. With a scooter you can't travel those distances.

          I was in Hackney Wick on Sunday, where there are many men with beards drinking craft beers*. There is also an electric skateboard shop called Wick Boards, and happened upon some bearded chaps setting out for a jaunt. I asked him what the range on one of these boards is, and was surprised to learn they can go up to 28km on a single charge, which is very much in the commute to work and back range.

          * I also have a beard and drink craft beer. No connection to the store and my lady friend promptly told me that I will never be allowed to have one of these fancy looking boards :/

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @ecofeco - Re: Scooter stoopid

      In case you didn't notice, stupidity is a cheap, abundant, renewable economic resource and capitalism is all about exploiting cheap, abundant resources. To put this short, being stupid is good for the economy.

      1. Clunking Fist Bronze badge

        Re: @ecofeco - Scooter stoopid

        The stupid people aren't the users*, it's the investors. The promoter makes a great living there for a while, but the investors see their money disappear upon listing...

        In NZ, the first brand of rental escooters had a "software flaw": the park brake would randomly engage. The brake was a bolt through the wheel spokes. Facial injuries galore, helmit or none.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @ecofeco - Scooter stoopid

        In case you didn't notice, stupidity is a cheap, abundant, renewable economic resource and capitalism is all about exploiting cheap, abundant resources. To put this short, being stupid is good for the economy.

        Whilst true, the analysis should be extended to consider that stupidity is only exploitable if it comes accompanied by money. One then has to ponder how they got the money; they can’t be too stupid otherwise they’d not have any!

    3. DCFusor Silver badge

      Re: Scooter stoopid

      It's because we don't let Darwinian selection work, and in fact have driven the reverse for so long now. What does anyone expect if you do that?

    4. Baldrickk Silver badge

      Re: Scooter stoopid

      Given that we are looking at a selected subset of the population - those engaged in scooter accidents, we are enforcing the 1:1 scooter:accident ratio. Not much you can get out of that.

      In other news, grass is green, the sky is blue, and when you have a car accident, a car is involved.

      Not that I necessarily disagree with your overall opinion - I don't really see the problem with e-scooter rentals per-ce, in the same way that a bike hire service is also fine, but I can see the problems with people riding something that can go pretty quickly without protection, training, potentially off their head on drugs and the littering involved in being a "drop anywhere" service.

    5. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: Scooter stoopid

      Some local insight into this... it's been a topic for local radio in San Diego.

      the e-scooters have been a plague in San Diego for a while now. The biggest problem is how they're just "left wherever" when people are done with them, and the rental companies need to pick them up to avoid them being scattered all over, etc..

      But here's a scenario I was thinking of..

      OK you drove to a bar, had too much, realize your'e WAY too drunk to drive, but instead of calling a cab ($50 ride, let's say) you GRAB A SCOOTER, thinking "it's ok to ride a scooter drunk, it's not a DUI".

      Anyway, I have to say it's better to just hurt yourself in a drunken accident than to take others and/or their property with you. That being said, unlicensed operation of these scooters may simply have to end if their use becomes ABuse.

      So far San Diego has banned them completely on college campuses and at the beach boardwalk [as I recall], and may ban them altogether if the rental companies can't get the "soft GPS wall" system that disables the scooters in those areas to work properly.

      1. BuckeyeB

        Re: Scooter stoopid

        You can get a DUI by driving things other than cars.

        all terrain vehicles (ATV's)

        riding lawn mowers

        pocket bikes

        golf carts

        go-carts

        construction equipment;

        a horse.

        https://dui.findlaw.com/dui-charges/non-automobile-dui--other-motor-vehicles0.html

        I wouldn't be surprised if a bicycle qualified if driven in the street. Also, motorized scooters. Of course, it depends on the jurisdiction, but this is still a bad idea. And Uber is so cheap.

  2. G R Goslin

    That's all very well....

    That's all very well, but where's the comparison with accidents to people who were not riding scooters. Quite possibly thousands of people were riding scooters through the test period, who did not come to grief. Where are the controls, the comparisons? This is nonsense news in it's most blatant form. Fools and drunks we will always have within our ranks. Why try to extrapolate them into the the general population.

    1. Benson's Cycle

      Re: That's all very well....

      Because we have had to pass laws against drunken drivers, for a start. When a drunk had a maximum speed of about 4mph they were less of a problem. Scooters are a new problem.

      We also have a problem around here with people derestricting their mobility scooters and using them on pavement (sidewalk.) Entitled drunks are not new, giving them a new way of injuring other people is.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: That's all very well....

        Given their classification as a motor vehicle these scooters already fall under the same legislation as other motor vehicles re: drink driving.

    2. Chris G Silver badge

      Re: That's all very well....

      Irate scooter rider?

      In Spain a lot of towns an cities have paseos, pedestrian walkways where the Spanish love to walk on a Sunday in particular after a family Sunday lunch at a restaurant. Most of these paseos have a cycle section where is was envisaged cyclust would toodle along at a similar pace to the joggers, however, they are usually populated by lycra louts trying to break speed records while weaving around skateboarders and now e-scooter riders. The cyclists are bad enough but the scooterists are deadly, have no concept of braking and seem to think trendy trumps everything else.

      My remedy is a bag of gravel, keep the gravel in the bag and whack the sods with it.

      1. Joe W Silver badge

        Re: That's all very well....

        So where do you ride a bike then? Cycling is a fast means of transportation. If there is a bike path you are in several places actually required by law to use it. These bike paths are then crowded by slow pedestrian idiots who don't realise they trundled over the line, skateboards, which are to be used on sidewalks, inline scaters with earphones who use the full width and cannot hear bells or shouts, and now the stupid scooters. There is a reason why I prefer to bike on the road in these scenarios...

        1. Zack Mollusc

          Re: That's all very well....

          Oh no! Inconsiderate entitled slowcoaches getting in the way! This must be an entirely novel concept for cyclists.

    3. Nolveys Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: That's all very well....

      That's all very well, but where's the comparison with accidents to people who were not riding scooters.

      They were also injured when they were impacted by the scooters.

    4. Baldrickk Silver badge

      Re: That's all very well....

      If it was "number of accidents had by drunk/drug swilling riders" then yes, a control would be required.

      You would want to know how much the intoxication had affected the ability to ride safely.

      As it is, it's a case of "Of the accidents that occured, this many were associated with drink/drugs/etc" Which is just reporting. Not really sure how to have a control set for this.

      We could compare it, to say, traffic accidents, and that would be useful - is drink a bigger problem as a percentage of crashes on a scooter than in a car.

      1. 's water music Silver badge

        Re: That's all very well....

        As it is, it's a case of "Of the accidents that occured, this many were associated with drink/drugs/etc" Which is just reporting. Not really sure how to have a control set for this.

        Ratio of drunk to sober riders for all scooter journeys shirley? It seems reasonable to hypothesise that impaired scooterists will have a higher accident rate. This study fails to tell us how much higher (if any). I believe that drunk pedestrians have lower injury rates in some cases where hit by a motor vehicle. The study speculated that drunks went into a more relaxed roll on impact.

    5. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

      Re: That's all very well....

      Also need to know about scooter users' helmet and drug use when they didn't have accidents, or did have an accident but weren't badly hurt.

      I don't really expect to find that everyone on two little wheels is high, but it's possible. Also possible that helmets don't help as much as you'd think, although I wear one to cycle. One theory is that they make your head a bigger target and so it's more likely to be hit hard by the ground.

      An anecdotal favourable estimate of a helmet's utility is that it prevents half of possible fatal head injuries, and none of equally likely fatal elsewhere-on-body injuries, so cuts death risk by 25%. So wear one but also ride slowly and safely as conditions indicate.

      1. MonkeyCee Silver badge

        Re: That's all very well....

        " Also possible that helmets don't help as much as you'd think, although I wear one to cycle."

        According to the Dutch, helmets on bikes don't help much, hence why they aren't required. Lights do make a difference, and are required. And will get you stopped and fined.

        Often see the mountain bikers riding home with their helmet on the handlebars.

        "One theory is that they make your head a bigger target "

        Yes, and that for low speed impacts or falling off smacking the helmet into something applies a shearing force to the neck. High speed accidents or high momentum (clipped by a truck etc) aren't helped by a helmet.

        "An anecdotal favourable estimate of a helmet's utility is that it prevents half of possible fatal head injuries,... so cuts death risk by 25%. "

        The Dutch disagree on that. Of the ~200 cyclists killed each year on the roads here, if they had all been wearing helmets, the toll would be adjusted by 0-5. So cuts death risk by 2.5%.

        The majority of those fatalities (~65%) are people over 65. So avoid being old if you're going to come off your bike.

        1. umacf24

          Re: That's all very well....

          >>So avoid being old if you're going to come off your bike.

          Bugger

        2. MrBanana

          Re: That's all very well....

          Cycling in the Netherlands is very safe. The extensive cycle path network provides proper separation of cyclists and cars - nothing like the half-arsed cycle paths in the UK. They just carve off a thin slice of tarmac from the main road and mark it with a dotted line. Then when you get to a junction you get dumped into the main traffic flow. The other reason for safe cycling in the Netherlands is that in any accident between a cyclist and a motorist, the motorist is always considered to be at fault.

        3. Dr Dan Holdsworth Silver badge
          Boffin

          Re: That's all very well....

          If you're cycling, then a few factors do tremendously improve your chances of not getting hurt. Wearing bright and reflective clothing, preferably clothing made to the relevant UK/EU visibility standards (as opposed to what some cycle clothing designer thinks looks good) means that motorists can see you from a long way back. A daylight-rated rear light also helps immensely; these are bright and have an irregular flash pattern to catch motorists' attention.

          Not riding like an idiot, not riding up the inside of traffic queues, and not undertaking traffic when it is waiting at lights is also most effective; you're aiming to be seen and not to be annoying. Do that and motorists will be a lot more polite, and politeness all round helps immensely. Where big vehicles are concerned, stay away from them.

          1. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

            Re: That's all very well....

            I don't like the flashing bike lights, but as a non-driver I'm not the target audience. My feeling is that a steady red light which moves like a bicycle is easier to track the motion of, than an on-off light; when it's off, you can't see what its owner is doing -unless it's daylight when the light is not useful anyway. YMMV.

  3. c1ue

    There are more people injured than riders.

    At least in San Francisco, motorized vehicles (except handicapped scooters) and bicycles are prohibited from being used on sidewalks.

    Yet the people who ride the scooters don't know that. So they don't wear helmets and they also endanger actual pedestrians.

    Note I say this as a person who has put literally thousands of miles on my own electric scooter - riding in the street with the bicyclists.

    Then there's the scooters lying around everywhere: blocking sidewalks, doors, driveways etc.

    1. devTrail

      Better to let them go on the sidewalk than have them clogging the cycle lanes. Sometimes I think they have been promoted by car producers to create obstacles to the growing cyclists numbers. When the commute takes too long because you have to zigzag between slow moving ****** you are more likely to give up and go back to commuting by the car.

  4. M.V. Lipvig
    FAIL

    These things need serious regulation. I work downtown in the evenings, and go home at midnight local. I have to drive about a mile to reach the main highway out of town, and for that entire mile I have to dodge these little idiots who are:

    - Going the wrong way down 1-way multilane roads

    - Fly through intersections regardless of the light's color

    - Fly the WRONG WAY through intersections without even knowing if the light is red or green

    - Fly out of alleys going 20MPH across traffic

    And this is in the middle of the night. What's bad is they are also doing it in the middle of the day, when those multilane roads are full of cars. Quite frankly, I'm amazed the local Lime contractor hasn't gone out of business from damaged scooters.

    1. DougS Silver badge
      Trollface

      Wait...

      Scooters can FLY?

      Damn, guess I shouldn't be ignoring them and need to check them out!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Wait...

        Yes, yes they can

        https://gizmodo.com/e-scooters-pulled-from-miami-streets-to-avoid-scooterna-1837746121

        1. quxinot Silver badge
          Pint

          Re: Wait...

          You bet!

          Hold my beer....

    2. Ian Emery Silver badge

      "- Going the wrong way down 1-way multilane roads

      - Fly through intersections regardless of the light's color

      - Fly the WRONG WAY through intersections without even knowing if the light is red or green

      - Fly out of alleys going 20MPH across traffic"

      You just described 70% of bicycle riders.

      A few years back, a cyclist flew out of an ally, straight into the side of my sisters parked car - hard enough to pierce the door "skin".

      Twat had the nerve to try and blame my sister.

      1. TWB

        'You just described 70% of bicycle riders'

        I suspect your estimation is off. Good cyclists are everywhere but you don't notice them. "they are all the same is" is a dangerous assumption to make in many situations.

        Yes, sounds like an idiot in the case of your sister's car, but it is not representative of all cyclists.

        1. DougS Silver badge

          THIS 100%

          You notice the small number of idiot cyclists blowing through red lights without looking and making you hit the brakes. You don't notice vast majority who wait at the lights until they turn green.

          The only traffic law I skirt while biking is at stop signs, if it is a four way stop and there is no one coming in the other directions I'll go right through it. If it is a two way stop I'll slow down but after checking if there are no cars coming I'll coast through. This is mainly laziness - I don't want to have to pedal from a dead stop unnecessarily. Besides, a lot of cars do the "California stop" at stop signs too...

          1. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

            Re: THIS 100%

            I think that slowing your bike down to under 5 mph and looking around is a good enough "stop" if there isn't traffic, and you actually stop if there is. But I haven't defended this view in court yet.

      2. ArrZarr Silver badge

        Any sane cyclist knows that they're the smallest & lightest thing on the road, and in the event of a crash, will lose.

        Personally, as somebody who can drive, I just follow the same rules and I expect that sensible cyclists do the same thing, because my bike was expensive and I'm quite attached to my teeth.

  5. DougS Silver badge

    Of course people aren't going to wear helmets

    You gonna carry one around with you just to use when you ride a scooter? If the scooter "comes with" one, are you going to want to put some ill fitting communal helmet on your head that could have lice or who knows what in it? Hell no!

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Of course people aren't going to wear helmets

      It's also a red herring in the context as, fortunately, most of the injuries aren't to the head. However, the number of serious (including fatal ones) accidents/km is startingly high with these toys.

      It's also yet another failed, fake green business model™: the vehices are expected to last for about 6 months, which means their CO2 balance is disastrous; they're not being used to replace car journeys; and the owners have to pay people to drive around collect, charge and redistribute them.

    2. Ian Johnston

      Re: Of course people aren't going to wear helmets

      Helmets are for wusses anyway, at least when there are no cars around. In the Netherlands nobody wears a helmet on a bike or moped.

      1. Drew Scriver

        Re: Of course people aren't going to wear helmets

        Not true. The American chaps in the black trousers and white button-down shirts with the black rectangular name plates tend to wear helmets in the Netherlands.

        They seem to have started a trend though, as helmet use in general is on the rise in the Low Lands.

        By the way, eScooters are not legal on public roadways in the Netherlands.

  6. Evil Auditor Silver badge

    No one died

    And "thankfully" you neither need limbs, face nor brain to procreate. Therefore no Darwin Awards.

    1. DCFusor Silver badge

      That's a bug, not a feature.

  7. Michael M

    Obvious solution to reduce 200 San Diego road deaths.

    People convicted of DUI must be permanently made to ride scooters rather than cars. Scooter riders aren't going to smash into and kill an innocent family.

    1. Benson's Cycle

      Re: Obvious solution to reduce 200 San Diego road deaths.

      In fact there was a case in the UK where a cyclist riding on pavement did knock down and kill someone. 90kg of flab at 12mph has a lot of kinetic energy.

      1. Nick Kew Silver badge

        Re: Obvious solution to reduce 200 San Diego road deaths.

        To what case are you referring? There have been cases reported in the press that turned out to be no such thing.

        1. Stuart Grout

          Re: Obvious solution to reduce 200 San Diego road deaths.

          https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/cyclist-who-jumped-red-light-riding-like-a-bat-out-of-hell-jailed-for-killing-pedestrian-66876

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: Obvious solution to reduce 200 San Diego road deaths.

            And from that report On average, three pedestrians are killed in collisions with cyclists in Britain each year and 10 per cent of collisions take place on pavements.

            1. Nick Kew Silver badge

              Re: Obvious solution to reduce 200 San Diego road deaths.

              Three a year sounds very high, no matter where they are. Last time I paid attention to the figures (admittedly a few years back) the average was well under one a year.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Obvious solution to reduce 200 San Diego road deaths.

                From the same article:

                "By contrast, some 40 pedestrians are killed each year by motorists on footways or verges, the CTC said."

                So you are over 13 times more likely to be killed by a motorist driving on the footway, than a cyclist.

          2. MonkeyCee Silver badge

            Re: Obvious solution to reduce 200 San Diego road deaths.

            Quite frankly the bloke deserved to get prosecuted.

            You've got to ride to the conditions. That means dealing with pedestrians. Yes, they will do dumb things, and you've got to be able to stop in time.

            I ride through a tourist trap a lot, and since there aren't a lot of cars people wander in the street. So I don't get to ride much above 15 kmph, so I can slam on both the brakes when they walk backwards to get a better shot.

            The chap was riding at 20kmph, with only one brake and no bell. IIRC it wasn't the first person he hit either.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Obvious solution to reduce 200 San Diego road deaths.

              >> The chap was riding at 20kmph, with only one brake and no bell. IIRC it wasn't the first person he hit either.

              Where did you get that? There is no mention of this anywhere in the articles I have found about Darren Hall. Maybe your are confusing him with Charlie Alliston? Who as it happens was actually riding on the road when a woman on her phone stepped out in front of him.

              FWIW a bell is not a legal requirment on a bicycle in England. The Highway Code merely suggests that cyclists ‘should be considerate of other road users, particularly blind and partially sighted pedestrians. Let them know you are there when necessary, for example by ringing your bell.’ Any other ‘audible warning’ – horn, rattle, duck call or the human voice – would do.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Obvious solution to reduce 200 San Diego road deaths.

        But is probably equivalent to a car going 5mph. The energy involved here isn’t the issue. The death is most probably caused by the same thing that causes these single punch deaths. Head hitting the ground. Mandatory helmets for pedestrians is the solution!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Obvious solution to reduce 200 San Diego road deaths.

          And also helmets to the people who are reading this. They will need it when they bang their head on the desk or on the wall.

    2. Cederic Bronze badge

      Re: Obvious solution to reduce 200 San Diego road deaths.

      Permanently sounds fun. Superglue their bare feet to the scooter, and one hand. They can use the other one for eating, drinking and plugging in the charger.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Obvious solution to reduce 200 San Diego road deaths.

      > Scooter riders aren't going to smash into and kill an innocent family.

      Don't know of cases of killing, but you've obviously never walked around a shopping centre with your eyes open if you can't envisage cases of people riding scooters crashing into families. An fully grown person hitting a toddler won't need to be going very quickly to cause a hell of a lot of damage.

  8. Nick Kew Silver badge
    Facepalm

    In other news ...

    Whereas 98 percent of those injured on scooters weren't wearing helmets, the figure for pedestrians was over 99%.

    1. BebopWeBop Silver badge

      Re: In other news ...

      Very very very close to 100%. And don't ask about drivers.

    2. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: In other news ...

      Time for an airing for this little gem....

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHTTbRYNryA

      1. Francis Boyle Silver badge

        Brilliant

        I love those old British community service films with their penchant for comic violence.

  9. TheProf
    Stop

    Standard foot powered scooter

    Any alarming reports on the damaged caused by old fashioned scooters?

    Halfords and Argos are selling these lethal death machines to children. Children!!

    1. Evil Auditor Silver badge
      Childcatcher

      Re: Standard foot powered scooter

      Wrong icon, or is it. Anyhow, nowadays children tend to do less drugs. So, no problem riding (riding, really?) a scooter.

  10. low_resolution_foxxes

    Used properly they are great fun, speedy and great value. I would never cycle around London (a literal cyclist death grinder trap) but scooters get me a few miles quickly and largely along empty pavements.

    Yes, I have to get off and walk in busy areas. But cars and taxis are high cost, these aren't. 20mph at a push (takes a looooong downhill straight stretch to reach this).

    Funny enough, if I drive high and stoned without my seat belt that's not a good idea either. Personal, self, responsibility. Enforced, by, Darwinism.

    1. low_resolution_foxxes

      Don't tell the Daily Mail there's drunk, high meth addicts rolling around the streets:

      "Sixty percent of patients had a urine toxicology screen performed at the time of placement or first void, of which 52% were positive. The most common substances on urine toxicology were tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) at 32%, followed by methamphetamine and amphetamines at 18%"

    2. BebopWeBop Silver badge

      London a cyclist death grinder trap - I don't see that.

      1. low_resolution_foxxes

        Depends where you live really. There are some good routes with bike paths. I live along the north circular road and I will never cycle along that road, it's scary and suicidal (air quality not the best either).

        TFL says ~500 annual cyclist deaths or "serious injuries", plus 4500 "slight injuries". Enough to scare me.

        1. Tom 7 Silver badge

          So a fuck of a sight safer than driving

          1,770 reported road deaths.

          26,610 people killed or seriously injured.

          165,100 casualties of all severities, a decrease of 6%

          1. imanidiot Silver badge

            Re: So a fuck of a sight safer than driving

            Local =/= country-wide.

            It's only fair if you compare road deaths IN LONDON, to the cyclists killed IN LONDON.

    3. devTrail

      Speedy? WTF

      Maybe in London where you can combine them with the tube. Definitely not good enough for a long commute.

      1. low_resolution_foxxes

        My typical journey is a 3 mile trip, option a): 10min walk to station, 5-10 min wait, 20 min on tube, 15 minute walk. Say 50-55min.

        Alternative option b) a 15min scoot trip through mostly parks and cycle lanes.

        Really depends on your route.

        1. devTrail

          5 Km in 15 minutes is an average of 20 Km per hour. I don't even try to calculate the top speed required to sustain such an average. Your case is an outlier, 99% are way much slower.

          1. low_resolution_foxxes

            Your numbers look good so I'm probably rounding up some errors in my head!

        2. Tom 7 Silver badge

          Interestingly 3miles is a 1hr walk so saving a fortune in fares. 2 of those a day is your optimum exercise/getting out in the fresh air time. Saving you the time wasted getting to the gym and the massive subs too!

          1. MonkeyCee Silver badge

            Walking in London

            @Tom7 - I found that in London walking from A to B was often the quickest way.

            You should be able to walk 3 miles an hour with a full pack over rough terrain for 8-10 hours. 5 miles an hour with a day pack on pavement for 2-4 hours is about right.

            So @low res, try walking. It'll probably take about twice as long as your scooter ride (~30 minutes) but you're already walking 25 for your tube commute anyway.

            1. tyrfing

              Re: Walking in London

              5 mph? That's a very brisk walk for anyone of average height or less.

    4. Duffy Moon

      Aren't they illegal to ride on pavements or public roads though?

      1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

        In the UK, yes. Dunno about other locations.

      2. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

        @Duffy Moon

        Yeah, the only legal option is an e-bike, that has pedals, and can't exceed 15mph on electric power (the power has to cut off at speeds over 15mph iirc), and the rider has to be over 14 years old. Anything else can't be used legally in public.

    5. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      "but scooters get me a few miles quickly and largely along empty pavements."

      I do hope you are talking about a fully manual, free-wheeling scooter. The powered ones are illegal to use on UK pavements and roads. You can only use them on private land (assuming you own the land or have the owners permission to be there.)

    6. Baldrickk Silver badge

      You're talking about a human powered mini-scooter here, right?

    7. DuncanLarge Silver badge

      > Used properly they are great fun, speedy and great value.

      You can only go round in a circle on your driveway.

      > I would never cycle around London (a literal cyclist death grinder trap) but scooters get me a few miles quickly and largely along empty pavements.

      How? When "used properly" as you say, you cant do this. At all. They can only be properly used on your drive.

      > Yes, I have to get off and walk in busy areas.

      Are you daydreaming while scooting? Or do you have a problem with tresspassers on your drive? I suggest installing a gate.

      > takes a looooong downhill straight stretch to reach this

      Your drive needs leveling.

      > Funny enough, if I drive high and stoned without my seat belt that's not a good idea either. Personal, self, responsibility. Enforced, by, Darwinism.

      Dont talk about Darwinism when you are stupid enough to not use one of these toys properly. The sooner you jump off it when the el-cheapo battery catches fire the better.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I don't think they thought this study through properly because don't you have to be high or drunk to contemplate getting on a scooter anyway?

  12. Jonjonz

    Weed these wankers out of the gene pool, Please

    Hospitals need to change triage rules to elimate entirely treatment of anyone one drunk involved in an scooter accident.

    Weed these wankers out of the gene pool, please.

    1. Jan 0

      Re: Weed these wankers out of the gene pool, Please

      In the UK they already have changed the triage rules.

      The last time I was in triage, there was no "send away because they're going to die anyway" option.

      Maybe other health services do use real triage:

      Those we can help

      Those who will get better without our help

      Those who will die whatever we do,

      1. Allan George Dyer Silver badge

        Re: Weed these wankers out of the gene pool, Please

        Isn't triage "which one do we need to treat FIRST?"

        1. Wellyboot Silver badge

          Re: Weed these wankers out of the gene pool, Please

          Yes, that's exactly what it is.

          What are the priorities? we could easily choose to treat paper cuts before severe head injury resulting from a scooter crash.

          Yes it's an absurd choice but you can replace these two with anything you want once you move away from the medical priority of 'least number of deaths'.

          The simplest way to stop muppets with machinery is more plod enforcing safety laws.

          1. imanidiot Silver badge

            Re: Weed these wankers out of the gene pool, Please

            I for one am very happy that the medical profession focuses solely on "how can we save as many lives as possible". Ignoring someone just because they're stupid is a BAD idea. And how gets to decide what's stupid? And how would a doctor know?

  13. Tom 7 Silver badge

    Hedgehog Zorb Suits.

    Or Porcupine Zorb suits for our westpondian pedestrians.

  14. Claverhouse Silver badge
    Meh

    Good luck to them all

    Whilst astounded that the majority of these folk are young males, some of whom have been ingesting [ shouldn't 'White' be included somewhere ?] ---- and not elderly lady judges over 50 as teetotal as Trump [ in which case the Guardian whiners would be acclaiming them for breaking barriers ! ] I really don't see the point of the ultra-condescending First World Problems ever. Particularly here, since no doubt poor people in America can use scooters, and there may be a few scooters in Africa.

    Smashing an ankle is just as painful coming off a rich man's toy, or falling off a tree in the Serengeti.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    But they're not *young* males

    Not really, if the mean age was 37...

    1. J.G.Harston Silver badge

      Re: But they're not *young* males

      Hey, if they want to identify as young, that's their right, you age-o-phobe!

    2. imanidiot Silver badge

      Re: But they're not *young* males

      Depends on what the mode is. If it's mostly young twenty something guys with a few outlier daredevil octogenarians you could say it's (mostly) young males getting injured. If it's mostly 50 something midlife-crisis types with a few 18 year olds to pull down the average then it might not be the right conclusion. Averages can be very deceiving.

  16. Wobbly World

    A dentists cash machine!!

    Because of the small wheels even a small pothole or unnoticed curb will have your face, teeth first, heading for the pavement!! So unless you are wearing a full face helmet you are a dentists dream patient, needing a load of work to get back your, now broken smile!! They can literally be life changing and not in a good way!!! Don’t use them they are dangerous and whatever you do don’t let children anywhere near them!!

    Hopefully they will prove to be a fad, the sooner they are off our streets the better for all sensible people.

    Get a bicycle much safer better for your health, yes you have to pedal, so get some exercise and as an added advantage have proper brakes. Also don’t be an idiot, or risk becoming one, wear a properly fitting helmet!!!

    Enjoy life ride a bike you know it makes sense, happy cycling!!!...

  17. Christoph Silver badge

    "people wounded from accidents with bloody e-scooters"

    The article assumes that they were all riding the scooters. Were there any injuries of pedestrians struck by them?

  18. NevertheLeslie
    WTF?

    Who paid for this?

    I LIVE in California. First off I want to know how much of my tax money was spent on this. Secondly, "interventions"? Here comes yet another tax on the residents of my state aimed at enablng/compensating/being overly sensitive to morons, lazy people, drug addicts, & career criminals. I can't afford to pay for people who dont contribute anything to society except to cultivate a need for stupid studies about stupid people lke this one. Give me a break.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    in Paris

    I recently heard over the news Paris had its first lethal accident involving one of those fecking e-scooter.

    This is basically why they started to regulate them in the town (limit max speed, etc ...).

    1. Huw D Silver badge

      Re: in Paris

      We've had one in the UK recently.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48973968

  20. John Robson Silver badge

    From reading the abstract...

    There were very few cases where a helmet would have the chance to help (assuming that we're not talking about a full face helmet).

    20% intracranial haemorrhage sounds rather oddly high - unless that includes things like biting the tongue...

    All patients were discharged pretty quickly, the 'majority' of the surgery was for broken 'extremities' (i.e. wrists/arms in a likelihood)

    Some facial injuries (faceplanting when drunk isn't that rare)

    The largest issue is being under the influence of drugs (alcohol included) - and that's hardly a surprise.

  21. Commswonk Silver badge

    Looking More Widely...

    We live near a primary school, and if we pick the wrong time to go out school children on "ordinary" scooters abound, with their riders paying no attention whatsoever to pedestrians. The children's parents aren't paying any attention either because they are either totally occupied on their 'phones or (less often) talking to other parents.

    On one occasion a father was running along the pavement, although I have no idea why. Some yards behind was a below school age child on one of those wretched bikes with no pedals. Because there were pedestrians on the pavement (surprise!) the father ran into the roadway to continue his run, followed a few seconds later by small child on 2 wheels who simply shot out between two parked cars into the roadway; it is highly fortunate that no car was coming at the time because the child did not look where it was going (what < 5 year old does?) because an accident, likely fatal, would have been almost inevitable.

    Just yesterday I was walking the dog in a local country park, and going up a fairly steep hill with a couple of bends in it. Coming down the hill was a family of 2 adults and 4 children; oldest child (perhaps 10) was on a proper bike while the other 3 (all < 5 in my estimation) were riding pedal - less versions. One child speeded up and failed to take a bend and crashed into a fence beside a tree and was very lucky not to smash its forehead into the tree trunk; I guess the gap was about an inch. Had it made contact then the injuries could have been extremely serious because it wasn't wearing a helmet; in fact none of them were. Another child negotiated the bend but fell off a bit further down the hill at some speed. Of the 3 pedal - less bikes only one - the one that didn't crash - had any sort of brakes, and even the brake it had was rear wheel only. As far as I am concerned that family only avoided 2 children being rushed to hospital by the Grace of God. (On this occasion I make no apology for using that expression, with capitals, on this forum.)

    At the age they were I cannot really blame the children, but the whole thing convinced me (and at my age I didn't really need any convincing) that adult fuckwittery is endemic in a large proportion of the population; these parents were either not paying sufficient attention to what their children were doing or had no real perception of the risks that were being taken.

    Drivers have to learn to drive and pass a test in the hope that while driving they will somehow manage to keep their fuckwittery under control; fortunately most succeed, most of the time. But who in their right mind uses an electric scooter wearing no protective gear whatsoever and then rides at some speed on either the pavement or on the road - both of which actions are illegal in the UK. In so doing they risk not only themselves but others.

    A driver ought to be conducting a dynamic risk assessment all the time when driving, but anyone using one of these toys clearly has no idea about "risk" and what it means. As a driver (or pedestrian, come to think about it) I am getting fed up having to include in my risk assessment the fact that there are quite a few fuckwits who simply don't or can't carry out their own risk assessment and by implication rely on mine to keep them out of trouble.

    As to parents, by not realising the risks and keeping their children under control because of them, they are actually teaching their children that risks don't really exist, which is unforgivable. A child that is allowed to misbehave on a pavement or road grows into an adult with exactly the same, now ingrained, habits.

    And yes, I am grumpy and won't apologise for it.

  22. umacf24

    Lovely tools without a use.

    I love these little scooters but I can't get one because there doesn't seem to be a use case which isn't better filled by walking, running, or biking.

    Depressing.

  23. martinusher Silver badge

    They are motor vehicles -- believe it or not

    Scooter riders obviously think they're riding a grown up version of a kid's toy. They're not. A scooter is a motor vehicle. They're not a very practical one since they have to be ridden on the road (ride one on the sidewalk in Los Angeles and you'll get a rather expensive ticket -- ~$500) but they don't have the performance to mix safely with traffic. A helmet is advisable because -- as any motorcyclist will tell you -- the main cause of head injury in an accident isn't from the forward motion but the fall. Riding while drunk or stoned should earn you a DUI. (Its a good idea to never drink and ride -- with one exception every biker that I know that's been involved in a significant road crash was returning home from the pub.)

    An electric bicycle is a more practical choice provided its ridden responsibly -- its still a motor vehicle. They're relatively safe up to about 15mph -- if you want to go faster get a proper motorcycle and learn how to ride it. Its really easy to get badly hurt on a motorcycle and you don't need a big bike and high speeds to cause significant injury to you or others (I've seen someone shatter two forearms coming off a 125cc bike at around 25mph -- its an extreme case of a dirt bike fall but that's all it took).

  24. j.bourne
    Paris Hilton

    Helmets: Preventing broken arms since.... well never!

    Yeah, 'cos a helmet is really going to stop you breaking a limb (nearly 50% of injuries). head injuries coming third in the list so presumably somewhere between 1% and 48% of injuries (hardly helpful without being quantified). But no mention of proper impact protection being worn for the highest injury factor. No body armour, knee, hip, elbow or shoulder protection being advocated. It makes me laugh when I see a cyclist in the latest stretch nylon suit sporting some natty fingerless shortie gloves and a half helmet full of holes: I'd be similarly unimpressed by scooterists attired in such a fashion.

  25. Daniel 18

    "Cycling is a fast means of transportation"

    Not really.

    Going to work in morning traffic I average about 60 kph over the whole trip, with peak speeds of about 100 kph.

    Going home after the worst traffic, it's 90 kph average, resulting in a trip time of less than half an hour.

    I wouldn't want to try to do that on a bike.

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