back to article GIMP open source image editor forked to fix 'problematic' name

Glimpse is a fork of the popular open source image editor, GIMP, created primarily to offer the software under an alternative name. GIMP is a longstanding project, first announced in November 1995. The name was originally an acronym for General Image Manipulation Program but this was changed to GNU Image Manipulation Program …

  1. Qarumba

    Eh?

    What the hell is an ableist insult?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Eh?

      Some modern politically correct bollocks that we don't get much exposure to because it's utterly irrelevant to anybody other than a minority of screaming toddlers on twitter who don't have any constructive work to do.

      They are right about the name though, it's idiotic and prevents uptake. I'd find it easier to get people to use it named Glimpse, especially if they include the gimpshop GUI to deal with the utter usability disaster that is GIMP's default GUI.

      1. fidodogbreath Silver badge

        Re: Eh?

        Some modern politically correct bollocks that we don't get much exposure to because it's utterly irrelevant to anybody other than a minority of screaming toddlers on twitter who don't have any constructive work to do.

        Translation: Those of us in the majority can casually insult those who are not, because such politically correct bollocks is utterly irrelevant to us. We're far too busy with constructive work (e.g., posting Reg comments) to waste our time worrying about their screaming-toddler feelings.

        1. Marshalltown

          Re: Eh?

          And yet - "ableist" is respectable?

        2. This post has been deleted by a moderator

          1. joeW Silver badge

            Re: Eh?

            Remember all that next time you feel personally offended by a user interface.

            1. Michael Habel Silver badge

              Re: Eh?

              You mean like those times when MicoSoft were trying to push Metro MicroSoft Modern? instead of what was working well for the past 17 Years*.

              * As to when MicroSoft decided to leave this massive turd stain on mainline OS.

            2. Czrly

              Re: Eh?

              I speak for myself but Windows 10 actually *does* offend me. I find the informal, cutesy, familiar language that it employs for status messages and communication with the user to be completely inappropriate, unprofessional and patronising. "Windows" actively talks down to me, the user.

              Of course, I have been living in Germany for some years and, consequently, I feel that Windows is in no position to "duzen" me and absolutely should talk in a professional, respectful tone.

              "We're just getting things ready for you," WTF! "This will only take a moment!" Double WTF!

              I want proper, professional status messages, please!

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Eh?

                DONT GET ME STARTED ON THE VLC SANTA HAT AT CHRISTMAS

              2. McAllister

                Re: Eh?

                That's bad, but many new, cloud-centric, social, collaborative, web 3.0, etc. applications are even more infantile. Slack is especially horrible. It litters it's UI with all sorts of cutsie emojis and responds with stupid interjections like, "you're all caught up, you get a pony! (with helpful pony emoji)" Imagine if that Slack channel were devoted to a serious topic like, say abused ponies.

        3. Drew Scriver
          FAIL

          The very word "disabled" is an ableist term...

          I looked up "ableist" and found this:

          "Ableism is a set of beliefs or practices that devalue and discriminate against people with physical, intellectual, or psychiatric disabilities and often rests on the assumption that disabled people need to be ‘fixed’ in one form or the other." (http://cdrnys.org/blog/uncategorized/ableism/)

          However, to my knowledge nobody is calling out that at its core the very word "disabled" is an 'ableist' term...

          In my (ICT) world, when I disable something it's not going to be able to perform its intended function at all - not just in a diminished capacity.

          synonyms: deactivate, defuse, disarm, render inoperative, make ineffective, put out of action, make harmless

          Not exactly a term you'd want to assign to a person, me thinks. Pot and kettle? Beam and splinter?

          1. Medical Cynic

            Re: The very word "disabled" is an ableist term...

            to my knowledge nobody is calling out that at its core the very word "disabled" is an 'ableist' term...

            Some prefer the PC term 'differently abled'! Presumably those who do, also object to 'disabled'.

            1. Imsimil Berati-Lahn

              Oooh it's Political Correctness Gone Mad!... or is it?

              If it really were Political Correctness gone mad, we would be obliged to use the phrase:

              "Political Correctness experiencing non-fault challenges with perception of and reaction to objective reality."

            2. nijam

              Re: The very word "disabled" is an ableist term...

              > Some prefer the PC term 'differently abled'!

              So, how long until "different(ly)" is considered offensive?

              1. jake Silver badge

                Re: The very word "disabled" is an ableist term...

                "So, how long until "different(ly)" is considered offensive?"

                This has been true throughout the course of human history, on and off, for various reasons.

                Making things worse, the more modern "all are equal" seems to have morphed into "none can be different" ... which can't work for many obvious reasons, the hand-wringers in the crowd not withstanding. Sadly, it would seem that many are attempting to reach this ridiculous goal, dropping society further and further into a lowest common denominator pool of grey goo.

            3. Kiwi Silver badge
              Pint

              Re: The very word "disabled" is an ableist term...

              to my knowledge nobody is calling out that at its core the very word "disabled" is an 'ableist' term...

              Some prefer the PC term 'differently abled'! Presumably those who do, also object to 'disabled'.

              In response to a comment in this forum, I looked up what are now considered "abelist insults". Now that I am aware of these, I must take deep personal offence on behalf of some complete stranger as referring to someone as "differently abled' is an "abelist insult".

              There's a lot of other stuff that the other day was considered the nicest and most correct way to refer to people with various disabilities that are now considered insults.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Eh?

          Those of us in the majority - will regain the right to ignore the whining children.

          1. veti Silver badge

            Re: Eh?

            You can ignore whoever you like, within the law. Just don't complain when they, and their friends, take their business elsewhere.

        5. Kiwi Silver badge
          Pint

          Re: Eh?

          Some modern politically correct bollocks that we don't get much exposure to because it's utterly irrelevant to anybody other than a minority of screaming toddlers on twitter who don't have any constructive work to do.

          Translation: Those of us in the majority can casually insult those who are not, because such politically correct bollocks is utterly irrelevant to us.

          I technically qualify as disabled.

          Don't get upset on my account. This PC nonsense really doesn't help anyone, but it does hurt a hell of a lot of people.

          1. This post has been deleted by its author

          2. xanda
            Thumb Up

            Re: Eh?

            I too suffer a disability.

            It's often mocked, both in everyday conversation as well as in the media at large.

            And you know what? I'm still here - and what's more it gives me some great jokes to share...

            That said, my beef (no apologies to vegans) with those shouting out the 'p' word is that they really do make my life difficult: The effect is that people are nervous/not candid with me in day-to-day life for fear of causing offence. Plus don't get me started when it comes to job interviews...

            Frankly anyone who has a problem with the word gimp needs to grow up, get a life and a dictionary (not necessarily in that order).

            1. Kiwi Silver badge
              Pint

              Re: Eh?

              The effect is that people are nervous/not candid with me in day-to-day life for fear of causing offence.

              I have seen and heard this so often, especially from those in your position (or 'ethnic minorities', those of us who 'don't swing the right way' etc etc).

              PC scumbags shove their noses in, try to impose their will on others, make people afraid to talk in any sort of open way with other people, and in the end make life much harder for those they're claiming to protect.

              I've seen nurses driven away from caring for a patient when they were speaking quite candidly with the patient and the visitors took exception to the nurse using "offensive" terms. So the patient had to wait till the visitors were gone before certain needs could be met.

              PC people are among the worst I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with.

              May your life be filled with people who don't pull punches, who use whatever words work best, and may your situation be mitigated if not treated. Be met with people who challenge you to push yourself to work around your limitations and put them to shame!

      2. PatrickEB

        Re: Eh?

        When you're asking what the problem is, read this and it will inform you as to what and who are the problems:

        "Some modern politically correct bollocks that we don't get much exposure to because it's utterly irrelevant to anybody other than a minority of screaming toddlers on twitter who don't have any constructive work to do."

        Pretty much tells who the problem is and the attitude that they represent.

    2. Sykowasp

      Re: Eh?

      Unwanted insults/verbal assault based upon a person's physical characteristics.

      I.e., if you use them against someone, you've clearly already lost the argument.

      gimp is a stupid name for a premier piece of linux software.

      1. GrumpenKraut Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Eh?

        mutt, git, grub, and there are surely many more self-deprecating names. It's a bit of a tradition. Years ago someone got (mildly) annoyed be that and suggested to name some future software "the annoying itch on my arse" (or somesuch).

        1. jarfil

          Re: Eh?

          Is that how itch.io got named?

          1. Mandrake42

            Re: Eh?

            Some people may find "Go ogle" much more objectifying and sexist.

            1. Clunking Fist Bronze badge

              Re: Eh?

              You just gave me a microsoft...

              1. 80sRelic

                Re: Eh?

                At my age, you reminded me of "Super Soft" Fortran!

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Eh?

                that's what she said.

                1. Flywheel Silver badge

                  Re: Eh?

                  Sounds like a load of COBOL-ers to me. Can I still say that?

            2. Michael Habel Silver badge
              Gimp

              Re: Eh?

              Who knew that Google raison d'etre would have been so obvius....

        2. The Indomitable Gall

          Re: Eh?

          Self-deprecating is different from insulting towards a minority.

          It's like MongoDB -- how did they ever think that was OK?

          1. Midnight

            Re: Eh?

            And then there is EtherApe.

          2. RacerX

            Re: Eh?

            Free speech means I can insult anyone and any group I choose as long as I'm prepared for the non-violent consequences of my speech. Don't care to be insulted? Don't show up in public.. everything will work out just fine for ye.

            1. Richocet

              Re: Eh?

              I'm not sure that is what free speech means.

              The core concept is that you can speak up against a government, religion, ideology, majority group etc. People don't have to agree with you, but you can't be jailed for it.

              It doesn't permit falsely accusing people of things or malicious rumor spreading. There are laws against that, and you can be jailed.

              Good point that free speech doesn't require people to like or accept what you say.

              However insulting and abusing any group you want - not sure that is part of it. I worry people who do this and misunderstand free speech - or who know very well, but try to use free speech as a loophole - are going to give governments excuses restrict free speech.

              1. Mandrake42

                Re: Eh?

                In order to think, you have to risk being offensive. There is no universal benchmark for what's offensive and what's not, so free speech MUST always means allowing anyone to risk being offensive. Poor snowflakes get more easily offended. Also being usually incompetent, the only control they are able to try to exercise is to control the free speech of others. But the competent will always win.

                #MAGA

                1. Kiwi Silver badge
                  Pint

                  Re: Eh?

                  Poor snowflakes get more easily offended. Also being usually incompetent, the only control they are able to try to exercise is to control the free speech of others.

                  I've often noticed that. More commonly than not, the more peoplesnowflakes whine about PC crap, the less likely they are to have actually accomplished anything.

                  In order to think, you have to risk being offensive.

                  Some of the best things anyone has ever said to me have been utterly offensive to me at first, but onl reflection I've made changes that have improved my life for the better.

                  The worst things, OTOH, have been when muppets have sat silent and let me come to grief because they could see a problem but didn't want to risk offending me. I've been at risk of serious injury because someone was too girly to warn me I was making a mistake in how I was using a power tool. Had the thrown bit of work been a few inches over it could've gone into my chest instead of grazing my shoulder.

                  Speak up. Speak your mind. I might run away crying. I might wet my panties. I might thank you for it. (yes, may even try to end my life too - that's a risk we take but it's more likely to be over-protected snowflakes getting their first taste of reality than people who've not been overly protected).

                  But the competent will always win.

                  In that, I think you are very sadly mistaken. This world is great at producing fools, great at promoting lunatics, and utterly amazing at producing utter fuckwits. Those of us who are even remotely competent (even going as low as my level) are outnumbered 100 to 1. And even worse, they're too stupid to realise they're too stupid.

                  #MAGA

                  Make Anal Gay Again? Thanks, but I don't mind the straights sharing some of the joys....

                2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

                  Re: Eh?

                  "so free speech MUST always means allowing anyone to risk being offensive."

                  The operative word there being "risk". But what RacerX said was "Free speech means I can insult anyone and any group I choose" which is a very different interpretation on what free speech is or is not.

                  1. Kiwi Silver badge

                    Re: Eh?

                    "so free speech MUST always means allowing anyone to risk being offensive."

                    The operative word there being "risk". But what RacerX said was "Free speech means I can insult anyone and any group I choose" which is a very different interpretation on what free speech is or is not.

                    Yes, we should be free to insult whoever we choose.

                    The problem I find most annoying is when people take insult/offence when it's not intended. When someone is making a well-reasoned argument/speech in support of a group, but some SJW or other PC-scumtype grabs all the attention (thus detracting from the intended speech and wasting the helpful resource) by getting offended that the speaker isn't up with this minute's trend.

                    "I think the community centre needs better access so disabled people can enjoy this resource. I have a plan I believe the community can get behind that will achieve this within a few months"

                    'HOW DARE THIS OFFENSIVE PERSON REFER TO PEOPLE AS "DISABLED"? DOESN'T HE KNOW THAT IS A BAD WORD! I NEED TO TAKE UP 3 WHOLE PAGES TO SHOW THE LEVEL OF HIS OFFENCE EVEN THOUGH THE OFFENCE APPLIES NEITHER TO ME NOT ANYONE ELSE I KNOW! HE NEEDS TO BE LOCKED UP AND WE MUST IGNORE EVERYTHING HE SAYS (no matter how otherwise good it is) AND PUT HIM AWAY WHERE HE CANNOT CAUSE ANY MORE HARM! RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT!"

                    Hence my earlier comment that this PC crap does far more harm than good. I'm yet to be convinced that free-speech rights also give people the right to deliberately mis-interpret statements and then take offence at what they try to imagine was said, rather than the actual intent of the words. (Interestingly, Split Enz's "What's the matter with you" is playing as I write this :) )

              2. Handle123456

                Re: Eh?

                So you can speak against majority, but not against minority?

                Lovely.

              3. Qumefox

                Re: Eh?

                Free speech means you have the right to say whatever you like in a public forum. I.E. Out in public. In countries with protected free speech, you're perfectly welcome to jump up on a soap box and call everyone in the crowd a faggot if you'd like, or preach at them, etc without fear of being arrested due to it. (Unless you're violating some other law, like trespassing) The laws make no distinction about the content of such speech, only that you have the right to say whatever it is.

                However free speech laws in no way protect you from the consequences and repercussions from society for doing such. (The crowd beating the snot out of you for instance) Nor do they give you the right to say what you please in PRIVATE forums. Like those run by a game company, or hell, even this comment section. I've run into a lot of people over the years do don't seem to understand this last part.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Eh?

              Free speech means I can insult anyone and any group I choose

              Indeed you can insult anyone you wish, whenever you wish. That just makes you a thoughtless tw*t though, not some free-speech warrior.

              1. Kiwi Silver badge
                Pint

                Re: Eh?

                Free speech means I can insult anyone and any group I choose

                [..]That just makes you a thoughtless tw*t though, not some free-speech warrior.

                Not necessarily.

                When I speak my mind on certain topics, including here, I almost always offend some people. If I speak on sexuality in some forums, they get offended that I am not rabidly anti-gay. Or here, if I speak on something around my Christian beliefs here on El Reg I can guarantee someone will feel that I have insulted them, and many more will feel offended.

                And if you hold differing views to me, you may write something that I could take offence at, and maybe even say something insulting. That in no way makes you thoughtless, just means we have different views on what is right and what isn't. We may be uncaring about the other's views, but not necessarily thoughtless.

            3. SolidSquid

              Re: Eh?

              "Don't care to be insulted? Don't show up in public"

              Or fire you, or de-platform you, or switch from your company to a competitor, or re-brand your software as long as the licence allows

            4. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Eh?

              "Don't care to be insulted? Don't show up in public.."

              Hmmm so basically if you and other like minded individuals feel free to insult disabled people, your solution is for those disabled people to stay hidden indoors.

              Thank you for clarifying that.

              1. Glen 1 Silver badge

                Re: Eh?

                "Don't care to be insulted? Don't show up in public.."

                Dont care to be called out for being a dick? Don't showup in public.

            5. T-Unit

              Re: Eh?

              Free speech is an incredibly low bar to set yourself. If 'not breaking the law' is the only barrier between your brain and your mouth then you are an unkind, mean-spirited, thoughtless, a-hole.

              The law isn't a set of rules for how we should behave, it's a last resort when someone is bahving SO badly they need to be physically stopped!

              There are posters at my kid's school that say "Before you speak, THINK" and that acronym means you shouldn't say something unless it's "True, Helpful, Inspiring, Necessary, and Kind". I really wish more adults would consider this before they open their mouths.

              Just because you CAN say something, and even if it's true ("you're really fat") doesn't mean you should.

              1. Kiwi Silver badge

                Re: Eh?

                There are posters at my kid's school that say "Before you speak, THINK" and that acronym means you shouldn't say something unless it's "True, Helpful, Inspiring, Necessary, and Kind". I really wish more adults would consider this before they open their mouths.

                IIRC that dates back to Scorates or Plato - "is it true, is it necessary, does it improve upon the silence" or something along those lines. Something I like and tend to try to live by (my posts here obviously speaking otherwise :) ).

                But....

                Just because you CAN say something, and even if it's true ("you're really fat") doesn't mean you should.

                If more people spoke up to those with eating disorders, teaching them what true "self love" is, and how to make changes without making sacrifices, we wouldn't have these sorts of problems. But people remain silent, lest they offend the poor kid who is overweight and facing a heart attack and diabetes long before they finish school.

                Some years back I was diagnosed with high cholesterol as well as being somewhat overweight. I made some minor changes to my diet (one of which was to switch from margarine-like gunk to actual butter, but limit the use, another was to introduce more fresh foods rather than pre-processed) and take up walking/cycling on a more regular basis (eventually swapping some of this for gardening). Both problems beaten by simply eating tastier and more enjoyable food, and getting off my arse and away from the screens - giving my brain a break, my eyes a break, and finding stuff much more enjoyable to do.

                But no, we're supposed to believe that a 11yo at 170kg is just a kid "showing extreme self-love" and we should worship their morbid obesity, and praise the parents for being so kind as to send the kid into an early grave through a few years of suffering let the kid make their own stupidmodern-wise diet choices.

                If you can change someone's life in a way that improves it, speak up!. Don't be cowed into silence by the SJW/PC scum. Speak in love, don't remain silent in fear.

            6. PatrickEB

              Re: Eh?

              I think you need to understand the difference between being a moronic git and free speech.

              You've displayed the former.

              If you lack the capacity for civil discourse and don't wish to engage in civil discourse, you're engaging in 'free speech', you're being a dickhead.

              Now, sometimes people don't like what others say. That can be because they're challenging their dickheaded belief that what they do is okay, like slave owners and those who sexually assault other people. They though that those who protected others from dickheads were offensive.

              Really, they weren't. They were challenging dickheads.

              Some dickheads don't like being challenged and get all "Oh, I'm going keep saying what I'm saying. You can't stop me blah blah". Pretty much channelling their inner 3 year old.

              So, you can keep being a dickhead, but you're no advocate of free speech when you do. Just a dickhead.

          3. big_D Silver badge

            Re: Eh?

            And I thought it came from Flash Gordon and Ming the Merciless from Mongo...

            1. EH

              Re: Eh?

              I'd thought a character in Blazing Saddles? 'Mongo strong.'

              1. Robert Sneddon

                Re: Eh?

                "Datagram for Mongo!"

          4. Ian Watkinson

            Re: Eh?

            They Figured Ming the Merciless would never notice?

          5. Muppet Boss

            Re: Eh?

            >Self-deprecating is different from insulting towards a minority.

            >It's like MongoDB -- how did they ever think that was OK?

            Hmmm, does not "mong" mean "brave" in Mongolian?

            Of all the word meanings, some people seem to be fixated only on the offensive ones.

            MongoDB is from humongous but see above.

            1. Kiwi Silver badge
              Pint

              Re: Eh?

              Of all the word meanings, some people seem to be fixated only on the offensive ones.

              "If there are two ways to take something I said, and you find one of them offensive, I probably meant the other one"

          6. CommanderGalaxian
            Mushroom

            Re: Eh?

            Mongol is one of my favourite films. Please don't be such a snowflake.

            https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416044/

          7. boltar Silver badge

            Re: Eh?

            This is what happens when early 20 something geek still with a student mindset think its hilarious to give a product a ridiculous "ironic" name. They don't consider that 10 or 20 years down the line it might be rather embarrassing to them as well as customers.

            1. MrXavia
              Gimp

              Re: Eh?

              Considering some of the usages of Photoshop, I think GIMP is a very apt name for an image editing program

          8. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            Re: Eh?

            "It's like MongoDB -- how did they ever think that was OK?"

            They were fans of Ming the Merciless?

          9. 6491wm

            Re: Eh?

            The word "Mongo" was first coined (as the name of a planet) back in the 1930's by the author of Flash Gordon well before it's first usage in a derogatory fashion.

            1. jake Silver badge

              Re: Eh?

              The Mongo was introduced in 1925. It's a unit of currency, specifically 1/100th of a Mongolian tögrög.

              1. Kiwi Silver badge
                Pint

                Re: Eh?

                The Mongo was introduced in 1925. It's a unit of currency, specifically 1/100th of a Mongolian tögrög.

                So many words which sound (and are even spelt) the same, yet have different colloquial meanings.

                I think "Mongo" is used in the movie "There's something about Mary" in a derogatory sense against people with some form of severe intellectual handicap, but it may be a similar word (thankfully a great many years since I saw that movie).

        3. Notas Badoff

          Re: Eh?

          Ah, so the next devastating malware will be named pinworm?

        4. Surreal
          Gimp

          Re: Eh?

          Anyone can fork it as they wish, though I truly wish they'd named the fork Seakitten. Glimpse is an utterly uninspiring moniker, and my sub thinks so too!

          Gimp icon because, duh!

          1. rnturn

            Re: Eh?

            > I truly wish they'd named the fork Seakitten

            Because there aren't *enough* open source project names that defy any reasonable means of associating the name to what the software actually does. At least "Glimpse" (Dear $DIETY... don't make the name all uppercase) has *something* to do with "visual".

            1. Kiwi Silver badge
              Windows

              Re: Eh?

              Because there aren't *enough* open source project names that defy any reasonable means of associating the name to what the software actually does.

              You mean like "Windows", "Outlook", "Edge". "Bob", "BASIC", "Visual Studio" (I guess some form of video or photograph software?), "Bing" to name a few... P)

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Eh?

            In years gone by used to work on a Burroughs B6700 part of the OS was MOTHER and yes there was a special task to fork mother....

          3. bombastic bob Silver badge
            Thumb Up

            Re: Eh?

            "Gimp icon because, duh!"

            well played

          4. John G Imrie Silver badge
            Gimp

            Re: Eh?

            Why are you asking your subs opinion on this, surly your opinion is all that counts.

        5. rcxb Bronze badge

          Re: Eh?

          And where can you find all those projects? On the git hub...

        6. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Eh?

          >mutt, git, grub, and there are surely many more self-deprecating names. It's a bit of a tradition

          Unix itself being Multics with a couple of bits cut off

        7. sitta_europea Bronze badge

          Re: Eh?

          "mutt, git, grub, and there are surely many more self-deprecating names. It's a bit of a tradition. ..."

          Then of course there's "Windows".

          I guess by now you'll have noticed which one was the most successful...

        8. Gary Bickford

          Re: Eh?

          TAIOMA - that's could actually work! Maybe an artsy app of some sort? Or the name of my boat ... :D

    3. Simon Harris Silver badge

      Re: Eh?

      If Gimp is an ableist insult, how about a Spazz wheelchair?

      http://colourswheelchair.com/spazz/

      1. deive

        Re: Eh?

        Not offensive quite so directly, but you can also get a wheelchair from https://www.karmamobility.co.uk/

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: 2 wrongs?

        Also, one can choose their own name. Does not mean others will use it.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Eh?

        That is a bit of a spazz wheelchair, doesn't have any arm rests that will also stop you from rubbing / getting caught in the wheels.

        1. agurney

          Re: Eh?

          That is a bit of a spazz wheelchair, doesn't have any arm rests that will also stop you from rubbing / getting caught in the wheels.

          I don't want a manually propelled wheelchair that has arm rests.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Eh?

        I saw a disabled kid in a Joie car seat once.

        One for th older viewers here.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Eh?

          Could he reach to lick the window?

        2. hopkinse
          Coat

          Re: Eh?

          Those were the days. When Jimmy Saville was just an irritating tw*t with a poor taste in tracksuits. I never got a Blue Peter badge....

          1. Rasslin ' in the mud
            Facepalm

            I never got a Blue Peter badge....

            If your sex life if that pathetic, why would you want a badge to announce it?

      5. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: Eh?

        "If Gimp is an ableist insult, how about a Spazz wheelchair?"

        careful, some hypersensitive SJW will *FLAG* *YOUR* *POST* as *ABUSIVE* over the 's' word that you used...

        even though it was a common nicname in the 80's

        1. WaveyDavey

          Re: Eh?

          And was offensive even then. Just maybe, you know, don't call people names ? "Don't be a dick" is a pretty good rule to live by.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Eh?

            You can't use SPA*ZZ anymore, you have to call them "SCOPIES"

            1. RyokuMas Silver badge
              Stop

              Re: Eh?

              I think it would be pertinent here to remind people that El Reg does have comment guidelines - one of which is "We're thick-skinned, but..." - so I guess if you're reasonably debating the use of a contentious word/phrase, you're not going to get too much flack.

              However, if you're crossing the line of politeness and trying to ram your opinion down someone's throat just because they don't agree with you... different ball game. Doubly so if you wander off topic in order to trot our views on something that really is not pertinent to what the article is discussing...

              ... triply so if you have previously advocated tolerance...

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Eh?

                The mods seem to take particular offense of the word used to describe travellers. Rhymes with "do as you likey".

                I've had every post with that word banned...and probably this one too...am I right mods?

        2. SolidSquid

          Re: Eh?

          I mean, Paki was pretty commonly used in the 80s as well, doesn't mean it's not racist

          1. Chris Parsons

            Re: Eh?

            When I left the corporate world, I had a pleasant 15 years doing freelance IT support. One of my customers, a titled lady and keen pursuer of innocent foxes, had a problem with her internet. I had a quick gander and realised that it was a BT fault, so said that she needed to talk to them in the first instance as she was the customer. She called the support desk and after much shouting and swearing, handed the phone to me and said 'I can't understand a word he's saying, it's a f*cking Paki'. I don't know who was the most embarrassed, he or I.

          2. BrownishMonstr

            Re: Eh?

            Is it racist? I mean, really?

            I would say it depends more on the context of what is being said than the term itself.

            Some of them use it to describe themselves all of the time, in which case it would be racist if you couldn't use it.

            I might find it somewhat offensive, if you call me one, and feel somewhat uncomfortable. But I certainly wouldn't feel like you were being racist if you were to use the term in an otherwise normal conversation. I certainly wouldn't say anything either if there were no racist undertones (through anything else you say, or how you say it).

            Bearing in mind, my comment is said as I physically look like one and can ethnically be considered as one. Also, I'm not writing it because I don't want it flagged on the company's internet.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Eh?

              Isn't it the same as calling someone from England a Limey, an Australian a Pom and an American a Yank? Maybe not the nicest way of describing a heritage.

              1. sed gawk Silver badge

                Re: Eh?

                No it's not the same.

                A limey is a good hearted nod to a naval tradition.

                A yank is a good hearted nod to a book.

                A pom is allegedly a contraction of pomegranate - pronounced to rhyme with immigrant ( I guess your accent has to be right for this)

                It's a slur applied to all brown people, regardless of heritage, a way of othering and dehumanising people.

                In short, it's racist, don't do it, don't make excuses for it.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Eh?

                  Not in Australia it isn't. It is a term in common use, especially when the relevant cricket team is here on tour.

                  1. sed gawk Silver badge

                    Re: Eh?

                    So Aussie have racist terms for non-whites - who knew..

                    Still racist, just like all the other Aussie slang.

                    I know far too many Kiwi's and Aussies to be taken in by that dag of a gambit.

                2. Kiwi Silver badge

                  Re: Eh?

                  A pom is allegedly a contraction of pomegranate - pronounced to rhyme with immigrant ( I guess your accent has to be right for this)

                  My Dad was an Ozzie. He always told me "Pommy" came from "P.O.H.M" as in "Prisoner Of Her* Majesty". So for many Ozzies yes, it could be considered an insult as it reminded them of their criminal heritage.

                  In short, it's racist, don't do it, don't make excuses for it.

                  It's not. Most Paki's I know use it in self-reference when discussions or questions of their heritage come up. But like "Yank" and "Limey", it can be, if that is the intended use.

                  * Or "his", as the case may be - but quite sure he used "her".

                  1. sed gawk Silver badge

                    Re: Eh?

                    You using the phrase "Most Paki's" is polite company should earn you opprobrium.

                    In not so polite company, physical chastisement is the very least of what you should expect.

                    You've been told twice now, so you've no excuse, but, carry on with the butter wouldn't melt routine.

                    1. Kiwi Silver badge

                      Re: Eh?

                      You using the phrase "Most Paki's" is polite company should earn you opprobrium.

                      In not so polite company, physical chastisement is the very least of what you should expect.

                      You've been told twice now, so you've no excuse, but, carry on with the butter wouldn't melt routine.

                      Interesting.. I'll take the word of the many Paki's I know over yours any day. There's a lot of them living here, the family who own the corner store down the road for a start will quickly say "We're Paki's, not Punjab's" (they do intend the latter as a racist comment).

                      Clearly, it's not only NZ Pakistani's who use "Paki" to ID themselves.

                      "Paki" means "Someone from Pakistan" all over the world. Just like "Kiwi" and "New Zealander" mean "someone from NZ" etc. To claim it is "racist" is quite wrong, especially when the people themselves use it as a term to identify their heritage.

                      You have, however, repeatedly threatened violence against me for using a term people I know wish to have used to identify their heritage. Not only are you yourself actually being quite racist (doubly so as 1) you credit them with being unable to speak up for themselves or unable to make their own choices about identity terms and 2) you have no idea about my culture and wish to impose your will on it), but you are also committing what is in many countries a criminal act. One could even claim you're inciting terrorist activities by saying it should be "prolonged violence" or "physical chastisement is the very least of what you should expect".

                      What do you think you would face if you were in NZ and saying these things? Under our current climate, to seen to be promoting racial terrorism (even if that wasn't your intent) and worse to be doing it based on a term those you claim it is against actually use themselves very happily?

                      Carry on with your own routine, but that won't make you any more right.

                      1. Anonymous Coward
                        Anonymous Coward

                        Re: Eh?

                        The Pakistani ambassador to the UK uses a car with registration number "PAK I"

                        1. sed gawk Silver badge

                          DVLA doesn't agree

                          https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/ Suggests you might be full of it.

                          Post evidence or retract.

                          1. Kiwi Silver badge

                            Re: DVLA doesn't agree

                            https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/ Suggests you might be full of it.

                            Post evidence or retract.

                            I too would love to see that :)

                            However, looking at the 'talk' page on the Wikipedia article on 'Paki', I found the following quote :

                            "...Pakistan" means "Land of the Pure", so when you call someone a Paki, you are calling them pure..."

                            Further down, it's mentioned that in the US and elsewhere it's not considered offensive, but that it simply means "a person of Pakistani origins/heritage".

                            Below that we see "I live in a city in England where the ethnic (and perceived) Pakistani community (actually the majority are from pakistani-controlled Jammu and Kashmir which is not an integral part of Pakistan and is in fact de jure an occupied part of India!) where we'd say I'm off to the paki shop (corner shop, convenience store) and this was not said in a derogatory way but in a matter of fact (I'm off to the pakistani-owned shop) kind of way."

                            So, at least some people in the UK do not consider it to be offensive. Of course, they're closer to you so you may wish to introduce them to some of that "prolonged violence" you were wishing on me.

                            Also see the comment "The liberal PC brigade is destroying the UK. You'd think calling a Pakistani a Paki was the worst crime in the world." Nah, not seeing that with your posts at all... :)

                            According to the BBC, " some young British Pakistanis are now trying to reclaim the word as a badge they are proud of."

                            I'm going to paraphrase a quote in that article, "As I was growing up in Bradford and Leeds[New Zealand] I'd be walking around and people would be going 'get that Pak[gay]' and there was Paki[gay] bashing. They were insulting, there is no other way of looking at this word."

                            Like the aforementioned young Paki's are doing in the UK with their term, gays have adopted a term that was used as abusive against us and [sometimes proudly] use it as a descriptive label for us. But I guess they're not allowed to re-claim a formerly OK term and make it OK again because in your view that would be wrong, and those UK Paki's should not be reclaiming such a word without your permission. Should those UK Pakistani's who wish to reclaim the term "Paki" also be subjected to 'prolonged violence" because you don't like the term?

                            BTW, "Paki" is also a Maori word meaning 'fine weather', so when I am calling a person "Paki" I am saying that they're from Pakistan, but I could also be saying that they're "pure" or "bright and sunny" (or "warm and sunny" or... You'd wish for 'prolonged violence' on someone who calls people "Pure" or "Bright"?

                            "Paki" is a respectable name over in these parts (although Korotangi Paki, the son of the Maori King, seems to be intent on changing that). Perhaps you need to do some research on what happens in the rest of the world before claiming someone is deserving of "prolonged violence" among other things. If you were worth it, I could be offended at the slurs against my own culture by your insistence that "Paki" (the sort of weather we had today - absolutely GORGEOUS Spring weather!) is racist. But your kind is not worth taking offence at. I hope you can grow up some and learn that what happens where you are isn't the same for the rest of us, but I won't hold out much hope.

                            Now I need some chocolate. Off to see the Paki's at their Paki shop.

                3. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Eh?

                  No...a POM is a "Prisoner Of her Majesty".

            2. sed gawk Silver badge
              WTF?

              Is calling someone a Paki racist?

              Spoiler Alert. Yes. ffs.

              If someone is racist to you, I don't much mind that you don't care.

              That one person doesn't find being abused racially offensive has no bearing on how "some of them" feel.

              Let me be clear, racism costs, you'd don't want to collect that's fine, don't expect anyone else to turn the other cheek. I would encourage the expectation of prosecution and prolonged violent retribution.

              Ask someone a little older than you why that kind of language fell out of fashion, you'll know who to ask by the prominent facial scarring.

              1. Kiwi Silver badge

                Re: Is calling someone a Paki racist?

                Let me be clear, racism costs, you'd don't want to collect that's fine, don't expect anyone else to turn the other cheek. I would encourage the expectation of prosecution and prolonged violent retribution.

                Why would you "encourage...prolonged violent retribution" for someone using a term a lot of Pakistani's don't find offensive/racist and themselves use to refer to their heritage?

                Don't you think it's a somewhat racist of yourself to assume they're unable to speak for themselves and fight their own battles?

                1. sed gawk Silver badge

                  Re: Is calling someone a Paki racist?

                  Why would you "encourage...prolonged violent retribution" for someone using a term a lot of Pakistani's don't find offensive/racist and themselves use to refer to their heritage?

                  The missing words there are critical "the expectation of prosecution", We as a nation decided that racist bullshit was bullshit. Prior to this, an entire social-economic grouping (note, not a racial grouping)

                  decided that you will not speak to us, our friends and loved ones, in that way without loosing teeth.

                  It's a proud tradition, with notable examples being https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cable_Street

                  Here it is in liverpool https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/live-heavy-police-presence-city-15367522 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/edl-laughed-out-liverpool-benny-10553994

                  In the argot of the young'uns "talk shit, get slapped"

                  Don't you think it's a somewhat racist of yourself to assume they're unable to speak for themselves and fight their own battles?

                  Nope.

                  1. Kiwi Silver badge
                    Facepalm

                    Re: Is calling someone a Paki racist?

                    Why would you "encourage...prolonged violent retribution" for someone using a term a lot of Pakistani's don't find offensive/racist and themselves use to refer to their heritage?

                    The missing words there are critical "the expectation of prosecution", We as a nation decided that racist bullshit was bullshit. Prior to this, an entire social-economic grouping (note, not a racial grouping)

                    The missing though from your statements is "People from Pakistan use 'Paki' to identify themselves, publicly, and expect others to do the same, so I should not take it on myself to tell them how to live".

                    YOU are talking as if the Pakistani people are inferior, not capable of making their own choice of what term they wish to use as a shortened form of their name. YOU, not those of us trying to educate you about what it's like.

                    [Battle of cable street] So you're proud of a bunch of thugs going out to violently oppose others expressing their views, disgusting as those views might be? That's your claim to authority - someone in the past used violence to silence other's free speech? You must really love those who went out to the gay marches here in NZ back in the 80s, and made sure we knew just how hated we should be. You certainly are proud of having the same nature as those violently opposed to "gay rights".

                    The rest of your post is just more promoting violence against Pakistani's for using a term that describes their heritage, a term they themselves use proudly.

                    1. This post has been deleted by its author

            3. This post has been deleted by its author

          3. John Savard Silver badge

            Re: Eh?

            It's pretty terribly racist in Britain. In the U.S., a sitting President famously thought it was just a legitimate shortened form. However, he didn't apply it to people from India too, which is one of the other things about the racist usage in Britain.

          4. Omgwtfbbqtime Silver badge

            Re: Eh?

            So is:

            Porridgewogs- Scottish

            Fraggles - Gibraltarian

            Bennie - Falkland Islander

            Stills - also Falkland Islander (they're Still Fsck'n Bennies when MOD banned the term Bennies)

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Eh?

              Porridgewogs?

              What ever happened to calling Scots "sweaties".

              1. dak

                Re: Eh?

                I never understood that name - it's generally too cold here to sweat.

                Unless, of course, you mean that constant perspiration is the result of our relentless work ethic...

                1. sed gawk Silver badge
                  Boffin

                  Re: Eh?

                  Sweaties = Sweaty socks = Jocks = Scots.

                  Most stuff has related derivation chains that make the origin clearer.

                  That said, it's a silly example as every euphemism requires more effort to use than 'scot' or 'scots'

          5. Kiwi Silver badge

            Re: Eh?

            I mean, Paki was pretty commonly used in the 80s as well, doesn't mean it's not racist

            Funny... Almost every one I've known from Pakistan has referred to themselves as just that...

            It's like when you call someone "Mike" instead of "Michael".

            1. sed gawk Silver badge

              Re: Eh?

              I note that you've persisted in using the term, while playing dumb.

              Please visit the U.K., take a stroll around Liverpool, Manchester, Brum, London.

              I would recommend ensuring you are up for a scrap if you persist in using such language.

              The kids nowadays are a lot more hot-headed, than my generation was/is.

              You'll have to troll someone else now, either you are beyond help or having fun, and either way I've done my bit to keep the peace.

              1. Kiwi Silver badge

                Re: Eh?

                Please visit the U.K., take a stroll around Liverpool, Manchester, Brum, London.

                So.. Your standard is based on a tiny area of your country. You'll use violence to impose your view of how Paki's should identify themselves? And you're stupid enough to think you're NOT being racist?

                If a local shopkeeper or a good friend wants me to refer to them, their family and their heritage as "Paki" then I'll take their word over that of some violent racist thug on the other side of the world. ok? They are, after all, the ones who are from Pakistan, and they are the ones who wish that term to be used. Your racist view doesn't count.

                1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

                  Re: Eh?

                  WTF would you refer to a friend by where they come from?

                  You are just making sh*t up to try to win an argument.

                  1. Kiwi Silver badge
                    Facepalm

                    Re: Eh?

                    WTF would you refer to a friend by where they come from?

                    So.. Becasue we're friends we're somehow not to speak of each other's heritage or birth place? You must be a real star at social gatherings!

                    And if someone else asks me where someone is from or about their heritage, I should say what.. Some random guy on the internet says I can't be his friend if I talk about where he's from?

                    Why shouldn't we discuss these things? Come on, lets see why you think friends should not talk about where they are from or how they wish others to refer to them/their heritage/sexuality etc when it comes up. Why shouldn't we show an interest in each other's history?

                    You are just making sh*t up to try to win an argument.

                    Ahem.. Pot to kettle : You're black. Over.

    4. el kabong Silver badge

      The name Glimpse discriminates against people who are unable to see

      It is an insult and it must be changed.

      1. Ben Tasker Silver badge

        Re: The name Glimpse discriminates against people who are unable to see

        I felt sure Urban Dictionary would have some offensive use of Glimpse, but sadly the closest (and I wouldn't say it was offensive) is Glimple: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Glimple

        > When you get a glimpse of nipple...

        1. el kabong Silver badge
          IT Angle

          People can feel insulted by anything if they want, it is their choice and it is their right

          I am pretty sure that if I try I will be able to find someone, or more than one person, who will feel insulted by the word Glimpse and because of that I demand it to be replaced with a word that is not offensive to those people.

          Is that too hard?? Is it too much that I'm asking for?

          1. bombastic bob Silver badge
            Gimp

            Re: People can feel insulted by anything if they want, it is their choice and it is their right

            yes but they have NO DAMN RIGHT to FORCE THEIR WILL upon the REST of us because *THEY* happen to be overly-sensitive snowflakes in need of a good "attitude adjustment" with a cluebat or cat-5-o-nine-tails

            1. WaveyDavey

              Re: People can feel insulted by anything if they want, it is their choice and it is their right

              Forcing how? They fork the project - you are free to download it or not, or choose the upstream source.

              This mention of snowflakes and SJW's sounds like forced outrage to me.

            2. Not also known as SC
              Angel

              Re: People can feel insulted by anything if they want, it is their choice and it is their right

              @Bombastic Bob,

              You seem to be quite worked up by the fact that these people are trying to force their will upon every one else. Although I agree about the cat-5-o-nine tails (I like what you did there) you need to remember that some people only feel validated by bitching about anything they can. Do we really have the right to enforce our will that they should be less snow-flaky, even if it is for their own good and the good of society in general?

            3. phuzz Silver badge
              Trollface

              Re: People can feel insulted by anything if they want, it is their choice and it is their right

              Why is it that people that use the phrase "snowflakes", are always the ones who get so easily aggravated by tiny annoyances, and demand that everyone else change their behaviour to suit them?

              Perhaps you just need a safe space away from those scary SJW's, so they don't trigger your ire Bob.

            4. veti Silver badge

              Re: People can feel insulted by anything if they want, it is their choice and it is their right

              Sooo... *THEY* are trying "to FORCE THEIR WILL upon the REST of us".

              Just for the record, what do you call it when someone advocates the use of instruments of torture to "adjust the attitude" of people who don't agree with them?

              1. Mark 65

                Re: People can feel insulted by anything if they want, it is their choice and it is their right

                Justice?

        2. swampdog

          Re: The name Glimpse discriminates against people who are unable to see

          You can get closer with google translate..

          english -> irish = léargas

          ..for which I assume you need to be wearing a rubber mask to fend off.

          1. el kabong Silver badge

            Google translate offers two definitions in english for the noun "gimp"

            1) twisted silk, worsted, or cotton with cord or wire running through it, used chiefly as upholstery trimming.

            "To stabilize a buttonhole, cord it with buttonhole twist, gimp or elastic thread."

            2) fishing line made of silk bound with wire.

            1. teebie

              Re: Google translate offers two definitions in english for the noun "gimp"

              *How* did my eyes skip the letters 'on'? They were in the middle of a word.

              I blame the reference to urban dictionary above.

              1. el kabong Silver badge

                Perv !!

                You have a dirty mind. Dirty but in a very subtle way, I had to look at least 3 times to find it.

                Have an upvote.

          2. Kiwi Silver badge
            Gimp

            Re: The name Glimpse discriminates against people who are unable to see

            You can get closer with google translate..

            english -> irish = léargas

            ..for which I assume you need to be wearing a rubber mask to fend off.

            Would that be like the one that comes with my gimpsuit? ;)

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The name Glimpse discriminates against people who are unable to see

          Good Lord!

          *takes out his pipe and throws his brandy at the fireplace*

          Urban Dictionary?? You must be from the wrong side of the tracks, boy. A learned individual consults Rogers Profanisaurus.

          Urban Dictionary truly is the street level equivalent of Wikipedia.

      2. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

        Re: The name Glimpse discriminates against people who are unable to see

        It's image editing software. I was already wondering how it rates on actual usability by users with difficulties versus upsetting people by having its name be a slang word for disability. And anyway, changing the name to "Glimpse" will just make computer users use "Glimpse" as slang for disability as well.

        1. el kabong Silver badge

          Wonder no more, you tell us

          You use gimp and you showed you have several obvious difficulties, I'd say you are in a good position to answer that question.

          So, tell us, how does gimp rate on actual usability by a user with difficulties?

          1. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

            Re: Wonder no more, you tell us

            I can't see it making much difference.

        2. BlackFlag

          Re: The name Glimpse discriminates against people who are unable to see

          I have never in my life heard "gimp" used as a derogatory term for disabled. I have heard it used many times used to describe submissive male BSDM enthusiasts.

          This isn't about disabled people. This is kink shaming. Gimps can't be talked about in polite society (which is apparently what the OSS community is now that Torvalds has been castrated by his daughter.)

          1. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

            Re: The name Glimpse discriminates against people who are unable to see

            I expect that generally, people who are disabled, most specifically American (which isn't a generally recognized disability), hear the word used more often than most others. The dictionary indicates also that it applies primarily, but not exclusively, to impairment affecting walking, How offending it is mainly depends on how offending it was intended to be.

    5. The Indomitable Gall

      Re: Eh?

      An insult used by able people against disabled people.

      I think "gimp" is only used in that sense in the US, but that's surely enough. Still don't get how MongoDB didn't get that their name is pretty f*cking insulting too.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: Eh?

        we need a new name for hypersensitive SJW "foist my will upon the world" types... something similar to 'gimp' in sound and context, except aimed at the SJW's. Then name the graphical editor after THAT.

        Except 'ASSHOLE' doesn't start with a 'G'

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Eh?

          'GASHOLE' does though.

        2. ShortLegs

          Re: Eh?

          But 'GLASSHOLE" does, and seems kinda appropriate "Glimpse for assholes"

        3. veti Silver badge

          Re: Eh?

          How about "Bob"? That seems to be the name around here most associated with trying to foist his will upon the world.

      2. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: Eh?

        heh. Mongo. heh.

      3. Ali 4

        Re: Eh?

        Ahh, thanks. I'm in the UK and have never heard of GIMP being used as an insult. Mind you I do lead a sheltered life. Also this is the first time I've heard of the phrase "Abelist Insult". One learns something new every day, but I didn't expect to learn so much before my first coffee of the day!

        1. SolidSquid

          Re: Eh?

          Same here, and mostly I knew it in regards to the Pulp Fiction kind. Both uses make it kind of awkward suggesting someone uses the software in a professional environment

          1. AceRimmer1980
            Gimp

            Re: Eh?

            /gets urge to download source, and change File/Quit to 'Gimps sleepin'

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Eh?

          Manchester and Nottingham representing: the word was a staple in childhood and adolescence 80s - 90s ish. It's derogatory for sure.

        3. John Savard Silver badge

          Re: Eh?

          If you hadn't heard of the words "ableist" and "ableism", yes, you have been leading a sheltered life. People who have found themselves unable to avoid exposure to the latest dispatches from the front in the Social Justice wars might go so far as to ask "under what rock were you hiding", but that may not be a fair question; it is forgotten that some people just live their lives removte from trendy political disputes.

        4. jonslon

          Re: Eh?

          Yep, "gimp" is US/Canadian slang, not UK English. In UK English, gimp is a strip of cloth strengthened by wire apparently - may be archaic!

          So, rename for the US and leave it alone for the rest?

    6. katrinab Silver badge

      Re: Eh?

      Dictionary definition :

      1. US and Canadian offensive

      a physically disabled person, esp one who is lame

      Abelist is to disabled people what racist is to black people [1] or sexist is to women [2]

      [1] Or any other race that is the target of hatred

      [2] Or any other gender ...

      1. el kabong Silver badge

        So only black people can be victims of racism, right?

        If you discriminate against yellow people, white people, green people, blue people, pink people, etc, you are not a racist.

        You can discriminate against men and you are not sexist.

        That is a very interesting view.

        1. katrinab Silver badge

          Re: So only black people can be victims of racism, right?

          "[1] Or any other race that is the target of hatred

          "[2] Or any other gender ..."

          1. el kabong Silver badge

            So, that would be everyone, right?

            I see, you want be sure there is zero chance you miss the target so you put it everywhere.

            You sure hate taking chances.

            1. John Savard Silver badge

              Re: So, that would be everyone, right?

              No, it addresses the point raised. Sexist if males are targeted because of their gender, racist if either sort of Asians are targeted because of their race, either the kind from the Indian subcontinent, or the kind from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Vietnam and related countries.

            2. J 3
              Trollface

              Re: So, that would be everyone, right?

              Are you retarded or do you just play one on the Internet, el kabong? Oops, sorry, I've heard that the R-word is taboo as well...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Eh?

        > 1. US and Canadian offensive

        > a physically disabled person, esp one who is lame

        So I'm a gimp?

        Just saved a fortune on leather there...

        1. John G Imrie Silver badge

          Re: Eh?

          And rubber, don't forget the rubber :-)

      3. Marshalltown

        Re: Eh?

        You miss the point. "Ableist" is a disableist insult to people suffering from no handicaps.

      4. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Headmaster

        Re: Eh?

        *ahem* - gender refers to LANGUAGES like French, Spanish, German (La pluma, Die Wienerschnitzel) and *NOT* to chromosomes. For chromosomes, the correct term is 'sex'. And there are only two.

        1. Tuppenced

          Re: Eh?

          Actually my Genetics professor used to say "There are fifteen Genetic sexes, yet we only have words in English for three of them." Which he backed-up with high quality medical photographs and some heart-rending case studies.

        2. John Savard Silver badge

          Re: Eh?

          It is true that gender is a term used for the grammatical response to the sex of animate beings and the animation status of things in general. However, it is also currently used for sex as a social construct as opposed to sex as a biological fact. Thus, the term "gender" is used in this manner when a distinction is made between cis-gendered heterosexual males and cis-gendered heterosexual females on the one hand, and gays and the trans-gendered on the other.

          Notice how an antonym of transgendered was formed by borrowing the cis- prefix from chemistry. Of course, this isn't totally unproblematic, I suppose, since we're becoming accustomed these days to the mantra "cis- fats good, trans- fats bad".

        3. katrinab Silver badge

          Re: Eh?

          The idea that there are only two sexes is something that is peculiar to the Roman pagan religion and derivatives of it, including Christianity, which does actually take more of its traditions from the Romans than from the Jews. It is only backed by science if to choose to willingly ignore the cases where it isn’t. A surprisingly large proportion of women do actually have Y chromosomes.

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: Eh?

            And of course the Romans stole almost everything that we applaud them for from the Greeks.

            The entire "there are only two genders" argument is a very good example of why religions have no place commenting on science.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Eh?

          Please, Bob, if you don't know German, don't try to use german words. It is "Das Schnitzel", not "Die Schnitzel" (unless you're talking about a plurality of Schnitzels).

          Fun Fact: Since January 2019, Germany officially recognizes three sexes. Male, Female and Other.

        5. timrowledge

          Re: Eh?

          Your lack of decency seems only to be exceeded by your lack of knowledge.

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Eh?

        Really so they've missed the whole gimp suit bit completely...how ...delicate of them.

        1. schifreen

          Re: Eh?

          They're saving that for when the lawyers become involved.

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Eh?

      >What the hell is an ableist insult?

      I thought it had something to do with a guy in leather and Quentin Tarantino

    8. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Eh?

      What a spasticated question...

      ...would be a good example.

    9. jsmith1030

      Re: Eh?

      An "ableist insult" is, among other things, something you trot out to distract others, and perhaps yourself, from the fact that a product/service is not usable by people with disabilities when it damned well should be. I'm disabled, and I, for one, sincerely wish people would feel free to insult me as much as they like so long as they spend the money to make their products accessible as they are often legally required to do. Alternatively, let's at least have the honesty to tell those of us who are disabled: "we don't care, go kill yourself". Is it that the problem is hopeless and the only things we can focus on to make ourselves feel better is the unimportant?

    10. IceC0ld Silver badge

      Re: Eh?

      What the hell is an ableist insult?

      ---

      GIMP

      Apparently :o)

      and so if there IS to be a referendum on a name change?

      may I put MY option into said hat

      T - his

      I - s

      T - he

      S - oftware

      U - sed

      P - resently

    11. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: Eh?

      I think the name GIMP is AWESOME. It reminds me of a scene from Pulp Fiction.

      As for the SJW's who have *NOTHING* *BETTER* *TO* *DO* than to *ANGST* over a *PROGRAM* *NAME*...

      GET A LIFE you WORTHLESS SJW SCUMBAGS!!! and STOP FORNICATING WITH THE REST OF US and whatever NAMES WE WANT TO USE.

      Might as well call it S&MSUBMISSIVE as opposed to 'GIMP'.

      FORNICATING SJW's... !!! NUKE 'EM 'till they GLOW, then SHOOT 'EM in the DARK! (see icon)

      1. 's water music Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Eh?

        SpeakING oF haVING noTHING betteR to do with one's TIME...

    12. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      linguistics

      I am curious if this fork in the name of fighting the ablest agenda is going to replace the original project, or if it is going to resemble the way that daemons operate in the background and will simply "fork off and die".

    13. Craig 2 Silver badge

      Re: Eh?

      What the hell is an ableist insult?

      Read the list of them on the wiki page and I dare you not to giggle like an immature schoolchild. ;)

      1. Kiwi Silver badge
        Paris Hilton

        Re: Eh?

        Read the list of them on the wiki page and I dare you not to giggle like an immature schoolchild. ;)

        You and I must have read different pages.

        El Reg - can we please get that "despairing for humanity" icon?

        Interesting to see that when my Dr referred recently to a slight deformity I have in my toes, he was actually being offensive by using the word "deformed" instead of something else. And I see "Differently-abled" is now an offensive insult instead of the socially-acceptable euphemism for 'disabled" it was just a few years ago.

        No wonder Bob goes apeshit trying to keep up with this stuff.. Oh, sorry, "apeshit" may also be considered an insult against those of alternative mental capabilities, or whatever I am supposed to use instead of "Mentally handicapped". I'd say this world is getting depressing, but that implies I have a mental health issue and that could be considered offensive to some.

        Bloody hell..

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Euphemism treadmill

          It is only right that we should be nice to each other, and not use abusive/derogatory language, but, unfortunately, what started off as a perfectly reasonable and decent idea gradually turned into a cottage industry for the "professionally offended".

          All too often, it now seems to be the case that no sooner have we managed to get most of civilised society to agree on a preferred polite term, than a professional member of the professionally offended decides to come along and dictate a new term, having found some reason to dislike the previous (and until then, inoffensive) term.

          I often find it hard to believe that there is genuinely much useful further progress going on there (surely the fact that decent people no longer use gratuitously offensive terms is a good thing?) and that there's really rather too much ego masturbation for the professional offendee involved, than anything else.

          (Take "BAME" for example: why is this currently considered more "woke" than "BEM", and what is supposedly wrong with just "ethnic minority" in any case, is there really a genuine and justifiable reason for black people being highlighted more than any other ethnic group there? It almost seems racist in itself, reducing people of other ethnic backgrounds to an implied second class status?)

          1. Kiwi Silver badge

            Re: Euphemism treadmill

            It is only right that we should be nice to each other, and not use abusive/derogatory language, but, unfortunately, what started off as a perfectly reasonable and decent idea gradually turned into a cottage industry for the "professionally offended".

            I largely agree - but the problem really does come down to intention vs possible meanings. Take for example the posts between myself and "Sed Gawk" (apols if I got the spelling/name wrong) - one sees a term as a serious racist slur, the other sees it as a normal part of conversation - the experience of one is that it is an insult against those people, the experience of the other is those people use it as a term to identify themselves. (please don't anyone take my using "those people" as a racist thing in itself, it is not).

            I could say to my partner "You could lose a little weight". It could be an insult or attempt to shame him, or it could be a serious bit of advice spoken from love and concern for his wellbeing. But I can gaurantee if someone else heard it, there's a high chance that someone else would choose to take offence on his behalf while he sees it for the caring comment it is intended to be.

            I grew up with a friend who had a serious physical deformity in one of his legs. Then we all referred to him as "crippled", and he still does today. He knows none of us intend any offence, and it's the proper term for his basic condition - he was crippled and required crutches to walk at all. I also have known people who meet the definition of "retarded" who use the term correctly and expect others to do the same. If he does something he knows is bad and says "sometimes I'm such a retard" he doesn't expet people to be offended, the term is being used in it's correct form.

            If I refer to someone (inc myself) as "black", "fag", "lame", "crippled", "suffering depression", "bonkers" etc I am intending an accurate description NOT an insult (at least most of the time). If I call someone a "stupid yank" then I am probably intending some form of insult or offence, if I call someone a "stupid idiot" then I am expressing my frustration at their actions/words and intending to show them how I believe they are portraying themselves.

            I have dealt with a lot of stuff over my life from my own physical limitations (not as obvious as a limp or other physical disability, although I used to "run like a spastic" as I did have problems smoothly controlling my limbs at speed though I could still win 100m sprints) and through my sexuality, but above all this one of the things most offensive is when some complete stranger has a go at my partner because he called me a "fag" or something else they find offensive. We've accepted the language, we use it for each other in fun, who the hell are you to tell me how I should feel when someone I love uses a term I happily accept? (not directed at the posting AC!)

            I agree - there are many terms that aren't intended to be offensive and are quite accurate. Constantly changing terms not only leads to much confusion, but can lead to a great deal of upset as well. Someone comes up to me and asks about someone I know, and I say "Paul? Yeah, he's gay", and someone else wants to physically assault me because "gay" is no longer an acceptable term, but I haven't yet learned that how I describe myself is no longer PC.

            Anything can be used as an insult if it's intended to be an insult. Anything that is NOT intended to be an insult should never be taken as such, even if the current stupidity considers that it should be.

            (One site I read last night even said that my nephew, who learned ASL because he knew kids with hearing issues, cannot be referred to someone who "knows ASL" as that is an insult against deaf people rather than accurately saying he is multilingual, much as the rest of my family (all of us have learned other languages though I could no longer hold a conversation in any of them through lack of use)

    14. This post has been deleted by its author

    15. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Eh?

      What the hell is an ableist insult?

      It's a Mumsnet concept, along with "anxiety", "calling out" and an obsessive hatred of trans people.

    16. SonofRojBlake

      False reasoning.

      "The most modern and often used version of the word "gimp" is an ableist insult"

      That's just... false. It might have been true in 1993... but I note that GIMP only started as a project AFTER the release in 1994 of Pulp Fiction.

      I would be prepared to bet folding money that if you surveyed 100 people, well in excess of 50 and probably close to 100 would associate the word with the very-much-able-bodied leather clad gentlemen that Bruce Willis encounters while Ving Rhames is providing the entertainment for Zed, leading to Zed being dead, baby.

    17. John Savard Silver badge

      Re: Eh?

      Some people have medical conditions that, for example, prevent them from walking normally, so that they need to use a wheelchair to go from place to place where most of us would just walk.

      The term "ableist" is coined from "disability" and "racist"; just as racism is ascribing false significance to race, ableism is ascribing false significance to handicaps. As the term "gimp" is felt to be like the word "cripple", an inappropriate term to use for a person with a mobility impairment, it is termed an ableist insult.

      1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

        1. Kiwi Silver badge
          Pint

          Re: Eh?

          "So I'll scream about it in my safe space"

          Being someone who fits somewhere "on the autism spectrum" (like probably 99.9999% of the population depending on what diagnosis chart(s) you use), I do sometimes feel a bit overwhelmed when around large groups of people.

          And I need to get away.

          But I do not think I have a "safe space". My favourite bit of "getting away from people" is to use the speed, manoeuvrability and sound of my bike to put much distance between myself and others as quickly as I can. Apparently riding a bike is not safe, so I guess I don't have a "safe space"... But boy* is it fun!

          * Apologies if that is somehow an offensive sexist slur to someone....

    18. Mark 65

      Re: Eh?

      What the hell is an ableist insult?

      The sort of language used by a PC soft-cock that wants to change the name of a long established item lest someone somewhere be offended.

    19. Thor8561

      Re: Eh?

      People with control issues and way too much time on their hands who choose to take offence

  2. devTrail

    Divide and rule

    I don't buy the story that the software "weren't permitted by their institution to use it in the classroom because of the name". It is widely used in universities and other public institutions and anyone knows that the name is an acronym. They exaggerated the impact of the name and I suspect the usual divide and rule is the real issue.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Divide and rule

      Having dealt with a number of high schools, middle schools and elementary schools, I can see the issue. Unlike universities that have far more technical people working to maintain their systems, public primary and secondary education levels tend to have one IT guy and everyone else just gets by. When you only have a handful of dedicated art or photography teachers and they are not technically proficient -- and work with a bunch of other teachers who may not have had much exposure to FOSS -- you are likely to be uncomfortable suggesting software that has a name that some may find offensive.

      1. devTrail

        Re: Divide and rule

        Sorry, but I don't buy it.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Divide and rule

          I use GIMP as my go to tool (oh and Paint.net for very quick bits). However I can understand it. I've always had a bit of a pause for reaction when someone has seen GIMP on my desktop.

          I could definitely see how a school *may* be put off.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Divide and rule

            School: What was the name? And how much does it cost?

            Me: The GIMP and its free

            School: Its free you say...that's good...

            1. Ross 12

              Re: Divide and rule

              That's rarely how it works though. It's more likely like this:

              School: What's the name? And how much does it cost?

              Me: The GIMP and it's free

              School: free? hmm what's wrong with it? and it's called _what_? All sounds a bit amateur.. we'll stick with our Adobe corporate licensing

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Divide and rule

                Me: The [X] and it's free

                School: free? hmm what's wrong with it? and it's called _what_? All sounds a bit amateur.. we'll stick with our Adobe corporate licensing

                insert X with random names like Linux, and at least more than half of them will reply exactly the same, because they are unfortunately not the targeted market.

                The real targets are users who are willing to enter into the ecosystem. When enough of those users exists, then the rest will follow.

                (example: look at smartphone adaption rate to computer adaption rate. There are plenty of people who are still unwilling to use a computer even when their job depends on it.)

          2. vir

            Re: Divide and rule

            > I've always had a bit of a pause for reaction when someone has seen GIMP on my desktop.

            Or when I tell someone with a bare wall to just Rasterbate over the whole thing.

            1. Baldrickk Silver badge

              Re: Divide and rule

              Try being heard telling your kids to Masticate.

              1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

                Re: Divide and rule

                If you don't they might go to college and matriculate, a place where they may encounter known Homo Sapiens and even thespians

                1. John G Imrie Silver badge
                  Joke

                  Re: Divide and rule

                  thespians, ha I bet you don't even know where Thespia is?

          3. IceC0ld Silver badge

            Re: Divide and rule

            from an earlier post in a different thread :- proving that MAYBE there IS a case for the renaming after all.

            Daughter, in need of Photoshop, for some school project, we can't afford that, so told her to search for GIMP ..........................

            in hindsight, I SHOULD have told her to search under G.I.M.P

            but since then she is very quiet around me, and just stares quite nasty daggers TBH

            ---

            as an update, she is still a bit wary of me :o)

            1. QuietDragon

              Re: Divide and rule

              I'm not really sure how search results are personalised on previous searches, but my quick search for gimp and nothing more got me on Google at least nothing but links to site of or about the GNU Image Manipulation Program.

              I personally don't believe this story.

              1. Kiwi Silver badge
                Gimp

                Re: Divide and rule

                I personally don't believe this story.

                I quite believe it myself, especially given the original context (I kinda recall the post - you can find it by clicking Icecold's name).

                Me.. I won't dare search for "G.I.M.P" let alone Gimp, even when I am alone. And with company around? Hell no... (Unless, it's that sort of company and I want to get this party started!)

          4. bombastic bob Silver badge
            Megaphone

            Re: Divide and rule

            "I could definitely see how a school *may* be put off."

            no, no, NO! Don't let *THEM* have a foothold in your mind!

            It's all just another big, fat, manipulative LIE. Wrapped in false "caring". Don't buy it. Your life will be better NOT being hypersensitive about what MIGHT offend.

          5. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

            Re: Divide and rule

            AC: "I've always had a bit of a pause for reaction when someone has seen GIMP on my desktop."

            I just sparked up my Ubuntu VM, and the shortcut on mine is called 'GNU Image manipulation program' and so is the title bar when it's running,... there's just a brief splash screen during startup that says 'GIMP 2.10.12'

            So I dunno what the odds of someone shoulder surfing you andf seeing the word 'GIMP' is,.. pretty small I reckon.

            1. Allonymous Coward
              Gimp

              Re: Divide and rule

              It's a pretty big splash screen with GIMP in quite shouty letters, at least on my machine. And how long it hangs around depends on how fast your computer is, as well as how many fonts etc it tries to load at startup...

              Otherwise though, yeah. Good point well made. If you actually go and look at how it's deployed (for Ubuntu anyway) this feels a bit like a storm in a teacup. The only other place that obviously mentions "GIMP" is an entry in the Help menu. Feels like a minimal-effort sort of thing to change without the need for a fork.

        2. JLV Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: Divide and rule

          >Sorry, but I don't buy it.

          Well, it is free, you know.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Divide and rule

            Well, I guess it's probably not the school that is a problem... it's that one parent... you know the one... every school has at least one

            1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
              Facepalm

              Re: Divide and rule

              Oh, you must mean the born-again-fundamentist that knows more than the entire school.

              I knew that {undefined gender} well :(

              1. Kiwi Silver badge
                Angel

                Re: Divide and rule

                Oh, you must mean the born-again-fundamentist that knows more than the entire school.

                By 13 I swear I knew more about most subjects than the teachers presenting them (just ask any 13yo and they'll tell you the same!)

                At that stage I was very very far from "born again"!

            2. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
              Coat

              Re: Divide and rule

              I have met quite a few people at schools, whom I suspect would be more at home wearing rubber\leather.

              Not all of them were parents either..

        3. TechnicalBen Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: Divide and rule

          It's FOSS, of cause you did not buy it!

          But no, I know of an actual example, where this also would not fly. The school had very strange decisions made, and the IT staff member was left with nothing to go on most of the time. Having to also go to them with strange names for software, would have made their work to get some sense out of management, even harder.

        4. terrythetech
          Happy

          Re: Divide and rule

          I didn't buy it either - it is free!

        5. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Divide and rule

          "Sorry, but I don't buy it."

          Go and buy something else then. After all, you don't have to believe a commentard speaking from experience.

        6. Glen 1 Silver badge

          Re: Divide and rule

          "Sorry, but I don't buy it."

          Have you ever tried searching for "gimp" from a school internet connection?

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: Divide and rule

            "Have you ever tried searching for "gimp" from a school internet connection?"

            Have you? I just did, using DDG. All the schools I tried[0] brought up GNU Image Manipulation Program related links, until the very bottom of page two (wiktionary.org: "To wrap or wind (surround) with another length of yarn or wire in a tight spiral, often by means of a gimping machine, creating 'gimped yarn', etc."). Seven results down on page three brought up mersenne.org (Great Internet Mersenne Prime Search), the rest was about the photo editor. Page four was all the photo editor.

            I didn't go past page four. Most folks don't go past page two ...

            [0] Stanford, Berkeley, SJ State, SF State, Santa Rosa JC, Foothill JC, Sonoma Valley High School, Palo Alto High School. All the results were identical.

      2. Halfmad Silver badge

        Re: Divide and rule

        When I worked in schools the Arts and IT staff were the most chilled there, the name of a software wouldn't have been a problem.

        I deployed GIMP to several hundred PCs in high schools, back then "GIMP" was a term used in gaming to say something had been reduced in effectiveness and that's how the kids also used the word.

      3. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: Divide and rule

        "you are likely to be uncomfortable suggesting software that has a name that some may find offensive"

        Then, let's change it to SEMPRINI

        /me ducks

    2. Rafael #872397
      Boffin

      Astronomers are more mature...

      ..and use sextractor without issues.

      Stop sniggering at the back!

      1. caffeine addict Silver badge

        Re: Astronomers are more mature...

        Only when trying to locate uranus.

        1. Danny Boyd

          Re: Astronomers are more mature...

          ...with both their hands.

      2. THAT_guy_

        Re: Astronomers are more mature...

        Upvote for unashamedly using the correct spelling of "sniggering" in this thread! Perfect finger in the eye of these snowflakes :D

        1. Kiwi Silver badge
          Unhappy

          Re: Astronomers are more mature...

          Upvote for unashamedly using the correct spelling of "sniggering" in this thread!

          I find your use of the word "sn*****ing" to be highly offensive as it contains the word "n*****" and you knew that full well!

          A few years back, during the President Obama's time at the trough, I watched 3 news items. There was a warning that some people may wish to change channel/turn the TV off/leave the room etc for one of the times as it contained material some viewers may have found disturbing.

          One was footage from a multi-fatal accident here in NZ, a van involved in a crash where most of a family was killed including children, bodies covered with sheets visible in the wreck.

          Another was footage from Iraq, Afghanistan or Syria showing scenes of fighting, footage where you could actually see people being shot and (almost certainly) killed.

          But it was the middle one they gave the warning about. An address by President Obama where he mentioned that people should not get so upset "When someone uses the N word" when there were many more issues the country was facing that needed to be dealt with. Seeing fairly graphic footage of the scene where a local family died? Yeah not the sort of thing I would like to see. Seeing much more graphic footage of people firing weapons intent on killing others? Definitely not something I'd want to see - would've appreciated warnings on those bits. But hearing Obama speak in that manner? Not something anyone should consider offensive or otherwise. Even if he used the word "Nigger" he, like me, used it in an entirely appropriate context - no one in their right mind should find that offensive.

          (Shut up Bob. We know you find every utterance of Obama to be highly offensive! :) )

    3. fidodogbreath Silver badge

      Re: Divide and rule

      The full quote was: "I have, on two occasions now, recommended this program to photography and graphic design educators (as an alternative to Photoshop) who told me that they considered it and found it good as software but weren't permitted by their institution to use it in the classroom because of the name." (emphasis mine)

      Tindall did not claim that no educational institution would permit instructors to use it due to the name; she said that that had occurred in two specific instances.

      That statement can be true, while it can also be true that other educational institutions use GIMP despite the name.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Divide and rule

        It was just a polite way to tell her no way to use such software, with is really a gimp compared to the leading software applications. No way you can learn actual photography post-processing with it. Non-destructive editing layers? We've heard of it, maybe in 2030-2040 we'll have something. Sure, you can use it as it is, and work hard to overcome deficiencies - it would be like teaching math using Roman numerals.

        I would not accept my children to be forced to use a subpar tool just because of some ideology, regardless of its name. It would be like forcing them to learn Esperanto instead of some more useful language. There are so many missing pieces in GIMP still, they should think how to add them, instead of fighting over a stupid name.

        Anyway, it was renamed when GNU (which I think is an insult too) forced them to rename it in their lame attempts to force their own ideology over everything that is FOSS. Just all "libertarians", they have to force onto you their very own idea of "freedom".

        1. Kiwi Silver badge
          FAIL

          Re: Divide and rule

          Non-destructive editing layers?

          You've never actually tried it have you?

          Several years back I had a friend start some work on a photo for me using Photoshop. I took the files she created home with me that night, used what I'd seen her do, and finished the project. Took it round to her the next day and she was amazed at what I'd done with GIMP. I even taught her a few tricks her beloved photoshop could almost do.

          A couple of years back I tried to do something really stupidly simple in Photoshop Excrements. Gave up after 4 or 5 hours butting my head against the ridiculously idiotic interface and severe limitations of that bit of crapware. Put my Gimp Suite on and hey presto, 20 minutes later had a finished image ready for publishing.

    4. juice Silver badge

      Re: Divide and rule

      > I don't buy the story that the software "weren't permitted by their institution to use it in the classroom because of the name"

      All it takes is one complaint from one parent, and it'll be gone faster than a teacher heading to the pub after marking the end-of-year exams.

      Schools have incredibly limited resources, even at the best of times and are incredibly sensitive to controversy. It's just not worth the hassle or risk.

    5. Just Enough

      Re: Divide and rule

      anyone knows that the name is an acronym

      No they don't. And besides, what you are saying is that everyone who already uses GIMP, knows what GIMP means. When the issue is the reaction the name gets from people who don't already use GIMP.

      Much of the reaction against a name change seems to be "I don't have a problem with the name, so you shouldn't either. And if you do, that's your problem. Silly snowflake." That's not how you encourage uptake of any product. The fact that GIMP is free doesn't change this.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Divide and rule

        Hey, you're talking to GNU worshiper, the IT equivalent of "politically correct" fanatics, they think there's only one anointed way to create and deliver software, and everything else that doesn't fit their ideology is evil, whatever they think and do is right just because, and you can't challenge it or they will go mad and start to insult you to death.

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: Divide and rule

          The problem is, the kind of people they would be talking to have two things going for them: prominent municipal connections (such as a high position in the PTA or equivalent) that can influence school budgets...and LAWYERS. Either one can make schools pause (they don't want lower budgets, and they certainly don't want the bad press of a discrimination lawsuit).

    6. Gordon861

      Re: Divide and rule

      I work at a local authority and needed some form of image tool, Photoshop was out of the question due to cost and they suggested Paint. It took a while for them to eventually allow GIMP to be installed, the IT Team were fine, it was the middle management that needed to authorise the installation of a program called GIMP.

      Also, the idea of improving the interface "yes please", coming from using Photoshop for years I often feel like I am fighting the interface on GIMP.

      1. Kiwi Silver badge

        Re: Divide and rule

        Also, the idea of improving the interface "yes please", coming from using Photoshop for years I often feel like I am fighting the interface on GIMP.

        I personally find it the other way around - probably a matter of what you've learned. Just like I use CLI for a lot of things where there's apparently perfectly good GUI tools, because my early Linux days were spent working remotely on headless systems :)

  3. spold Bronze badge

    With that name

    You are bound to be punished. Expect the change will be rubber-suit-stamped with much approval no matter if it is a painful or joyful experience (or both).

    1. devTrail

      Re: With that name

      So why did they take 20 years to realise it? I don't know the market trends, but I suspect that photo editing software is becoming a commodity and any competition from open source software is beginning to hurt the business.

      1. James Anderson Silver badge

        Re: With that name

        Quite the opposite, for seriuos image processing it's either the ludicrously expensive photoshop or the very able but comes with wired UI GIMP. Everything else is just a variation on MS paint.

        The UI is not really that bad once you get the hang of it but I thing a lot of people open up the app, look cluelessly at the strange Windows and go back to Photoshop once they worked out how to shut it down. If they really want market share they really need a more conventional UI which doesn't take a month to get used to.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: With that name

          What? You can get used to it in only a month? Must try again.

        2. Steve K Silver badge

          Re: With that name

          Blender 2.8 has realised this and its default interface is far more standard than 2.79 was.

        3. Paul Shirley

          Re: With that name

          I struggle with why an educator would consider software with a UI that feels like it was designed by aliens just to confuse humans. Maybe the authors feel it has to have a gimped UI to match the acronym.

          1. Carpet Deal 'em Bronze badge

            Re: With that name

            The paradigm makes its own sense, once you get a feel for it: without the toolboxes being slaved to a particular parent window, you can use the same boxes in the same locations for multiple windows. I kind of like the result, but I don't really use it for much.

            1. Kiwi Silver badge
              Pint

              Re: With that name

              The paradigm makes its own sense, once you get a feel for it

              Same..

              Ok, so I am severely mentally twisted. What's your excuse for being able to happily use GIMP? :)

        4. rnturn

          Re: With that name

          And how long did it take for these users to become comfortable with Photoshop's user interface? I hazard a guess that I'd have just as much trouble transitioning from GIMP to Photoshop.

          Jeebus... not every Linux software package has to lower itself to aping whatever the Windows equivalent looks like. Heck, legal departments with nothing better to do would probably sue the projects if they did.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            "aping whatever the Windows equivalent looks like"

            You may have missed that Photoshop is an Apple Mac application first...

            And let's be sincere - most Linux UIs are bad and ugly. Even the widgets and fonts are ugly.

            The lack of skilled UI designers and developers is very evident. It requires skills that go far beyond pure coding.

            Apple first and Microsoft later have invested far more in UI design - although since Vista MS lost its tracks.

            Anyway, being Photoshop the leading application with the larger market share, it's GIMP that needs to win Photoshop users, not vice versa.

            1. Intractable Potsherd Silver badge

              Re: "aping whatever the Windows equivalent looks like"

              I don't care whether things are "ugly" or the opposite - the only issue is whether whatever it is does the job efficiently. GIMP fails that test from my point of view - as someone mentioned earlier, just trying to work out how to close the program is a challenge! I am far from being a regular user of GIMP, and I always get a sinking feeling when I need to use it, because I know that the quick job will turn into something completely other due to the crappy interface. We are far along enough in software development to have an idea what a standardised interface should be - just like the arrangement of car pedals. It may not be "the best", but it reduces the learning curve sufficiently to be the most efficient.

              1. jake Silver badge

                Re: "aping whatever the Windows equivalent looks like"

                Again, you can re-skin GIMP to look and work like Photoshop. Kinda throws that whole argument out the window, no?

                1. Dave 126 Silver badge

                  Re: "aping whatever the Windows equivalent looks like"

                  I did try the Gimpshop add-on to make Gimp look more like Photoshop, but it caused it to crash. Got it working eventually, then found Gimp didn't work with 24bit (HDR) images, that needed something that had been forked from Gimp several versions ago and seemingly abandoned. Oh, and the free transform tool wasn't full featured, it was gimped.

                2. Intractable Potsherd Silver badge

                  Re: "aping whatever the Windows equivalent looks like"

                  I didn't know that! Thanks, jake :-)

              2. David Nash Silver badge

                Re: "aping whatever the Windows equivalent looks like"

                Closes alright for me.

                I never understood the complaints about the GIMP UI. I guess it's Photoshop people annoyed that it's not identical.

              3. Paul Shirley

                Re: "aping whatever the Windows equivalent looks like"

                I find the biggest problem with it is the moment you stop using it, you start forgetting how to use it. The UI is so alien to all other platform norms there's no hook to jog your memory if you're an occasional user.

                1. Intractable Potsherd Silver badge

                  Re: "aping whatever the Windows equivalent looks like"

                  @Paul: yep, that's the case with me.

              4. Kiwi Silver badge
                Pint

                Re: "aping whatever the Windows equivalent looks like"

                as someone mentioned earlier, just trying to work out how to close the program is a challenge!

                Click on "File" then "Quit", same as with Firefox and several other programs :)

        5. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: With that name

          The UI is not really that bad once you get the hang of it but I thing a lot of people open up the app, look cluelessly at the strange Windows and go back to Paint once they worked out how to shut it down.

          FTF... Oh wait Microsoft removed it...

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Christopher Davis

    offends me and should shut up

    1. el kabong Silver badge

      Inane censoring of an irrelevent word for no good reason, what a petty word Nazi

      Never heard of that Christopher Davis character before, can't he find anything useful to do?

  5. Spudley

    Good on them. This has been overdue for at least a decade.

    I'd be willing to bet that the project would have actually been a better piece of software today without that name as well, because I'm fairly certain there are devs, and testers who have backed away from it due to the name, and even funding, just as there have been users.

    If they're worried about what happens when a project changes name, they could look at projects that have been forked, such as Jenkins, MariaDB, LibreOffice and others which have done just fine after what was effectively a name change (yes the original projects carried on, but just about the entire user base and all the developers jumped over to the new one).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Whatever the opinion I hold about the name change, you’re totally sweeping under the rug the commonality behind those 3 projects’ forking, which was definitely not just “a name change” and certainly would impact why the community would follow in those instances.

      1. Joe W Silver badge

        Nor is this a pure rebranding exercise here. They said the focus was on getting a new gui, so that's a good thing.

      2. zb

        Steady on, there is no need to use language like "forking", there may be women and children here.

        1. VikiAi Silver badge
          Go

          Knives and spoons may be present, even!

  6. Chris G Silver badge

    Dick

    So anyone with the name in the title should, for similar reasons, consider changing their name?

  7. AnotherBoringUsername

    About time

    The name should have been changed long ago.

    I've got no time for un-necessary political correctness, but at the same time, if you name your food recipe app "Nazi-snacks", it's going to prevent it going more mainstream, no matter how good the program is.

    Getting upset about it moving to a more sensible name is miles more silly than changing it to a widely acceptable one.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Dick

      No, but changing parents might help. Though this may give away identity (I guess a search on names/schools may give a return)...

      I went to school with (still have the yearbook to prove it):

      An A Pratt (Self explanatory)

      Phillip Mycock (Was actually a slightly different name, but close enough to occasionally mispronounced out loud as "Feel Mycock" for short or "Flick Mycock", occasionally caused gasps in teach/parent presentations).

      An A Ford and an A Smith (Mundane)

      A "Gordon Bennett" (Which we loved shouting out really loud whenever something went wrong)

      and finally a poor L "Blowers", who also did not get kindly treated. :(

      Bullying was not something I was part of, my own name being difficult to pronounce. And thankfully, most of use saw them as good character. But I was especially confused at the type of parents who gave those names, knowing they could be used as slang/slurs/accidental insults.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Dick

        The root problem there seems to have been with the surnames. The parents would have been well aware of that having plenty of experience themselves. The only option would have been to change their own name first. The fact they haven't suggests that generations of them have each learned to live with the consequences and maintained solidarity to their own parents.

        The initials thing... Yes, we carefully avoided any pronounceable set of initials for our own children although it's only just occurred to me that if our daughter had married someone whose surname began with a Y she'd have become DRY. What we hadn't spotted was the potential confusion when, as happened, she started post-grad research.

        1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
          Childcatcher

          Re: Dick

          Having been through the gauntlet of my nickname at school (A certain advert on UK TV only increased my misery in the 70's) same as my father, my eldest has adopted it proudly upon leaving school. I have to admit while we tried to preempt names that would lead to bullying, my daughters name did get a twist on it that wasn't foreseen at the time of choosing.

          An odd little quirk on naming my kids that I noticed while driving home from the maternity hospital with the youngest. The eldest child's, middle initial is the same letter as the next child's first name, while their middle initial is the first letter of the youngest.

          Totally unplanned, the naming convention, not the child.

          1. A K Stiles
            WTF?

            Re: Dick

            Chap I know from Uni has a most common surname (think Smith / Jones / etc) and they have given all five of their children names beginning with the same letter. (e.g. Andrew, Angela, Abigail, Aaron, Arthur)

            How chaotic is the post going to be in their house in another 5-10 years?

        2. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

          Re: Surnames

          I'm sure that there are many telephone marketing organisations that get one group of people to research names of suitable targets, then another group to actually make the calls. Reason I think this is that, one day, someone rang my office number and asked to be put through to Mr Hawhouse (I presume that's what the researcher playfully entered onto the call-list). After this confident opening line, the pause was so pronounced you could almost sense the cog-wheels going round in this guy's mind. I think (this was year's ago now) my response was along the lines of "You're selling something, right? How do you think you're doing so far?"

          1. VikiAi Silver badge
            Go

            Re: Surnames

            Poisoning auto-harvested telemarketing lists in this way sounds like a worthwhile hobby.

        3. Alistair Silver badge
          Windows

          Re: Dick

          If you want names that predicate bullying, I spent an enormous amount of time in grade school dealing with the Alis ..... in wonderland ... tag. And I can recall at *least* 7 teachers or school officials that tried to convince me to loose the name. Hell no. I like my name.

          GIMP is an acronym. Clearly denoted as typed. And oddly, 'a bit of a gimp' is what happens when one turns an ankle up here in canuckistan. Yes, it can be used by less literate types as an insult, but it truely isn't the common meaning up here.

      2. DiViDeD Silver badge

        Re: Dick and other unfortunate soubriquets

        Ah, in the far distant past (OK, the 80s), the company I was working for worked with a fleet transport company run by one Wayne Kerr

        Whether the poor lad's parents saw this name as a way to toughen him up or were simply clueless was never determined.

        1. rnturn

          Re: Dick and other unfortunate soubriquets

          So... nobody's going to link to the obligatory Monty Python skit about odd surnames?

          http://www.montypython.net/scripts/mrgit.php

        2. JLV Silver badge

          Re: Dick and other unfortunate soubriquets

          I had a Dutch friend who found it hilarious that one of her American colleagues was literally named Randy Wanker. On the plus side for him, this was in Holland rather than the UK...

          https://www.usa-people-search.com/names/Wanker

          1. trolleybus

            Re: Dick and other unfortunate soubriquets

            My colleague in the next cube went red trying to suppress the giggles when taking a call from a South African named Isaak de Coch.

      3. IGotOut

        Re: Dick

        I used to work with a bloke who must of had a) clueless parents or b) evil bastards.

        I give you Ewan Kerr.

        Yes, it a real name , plenty of other poor buggers out there as well.

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: Dick

          There was a man who got marries whose surname was By the way (literally). Guess what was the most frequent suggestion for their son's name: Owen.

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: Dick

            I love to see this sort of medieval place-describing surname surviving.

            1. AbortRetryFail

              Re: Dick

              I had a friend called Jo who married a chap with the surname King and became "Jo King". She refused to start calling herself Joanne. Having said that, I haven't talked to her in years so maybe she got sick of people saying "You're joking!" and changed her name.

              1. VikiAi Silver badge
                Go

                Re: Dick

                OTOH, Mrs Susanne Ridge refuses to let you shorten her first name.

      4. LDS Silver badge

        Re: Dick

        People too do change their names because of that - just it's a process more complex than changing a software name. It doesn't look to me that the switch from "OpenOffice" to "LibreOffice" caused much trouble, despite the fork name being more stupid and ideological.

        A friend of mine not long ago change its last name because in our language it had the same meaning of "tit\teat". And he was really tired about it and didn't want to inflict it upon his children.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Dick

          That change took place because the project was being forked and you couldn't expect them to end up with two projects with the same name.

      5. Peter Ford

        Re: Dick

        Hey - my daughter Amy is an A Ford - what's wrong with that?

        Apparently I was destined to be Peter Craig Ford until my parents realised that P.C. was a poor choice of initials (at least in the UK)

        I know of a family who named their daughter N.O. Chance

        Worse is that she has an aunt who is Miss A. Chance

        I collaborated on a project at one time with a client who's rep was called Jenny Taylor - I had to explain my childish snigger to my PM after the first meeting...

        And as for Mr. & Mrs. King calling their son Wayne...

      6. Gary Heard

        Re: Dick

        Most difficult surname I came across? A friend of mine was called Nigel Randy, one wonders what the derivation of the surname was

    2. rnturn

      Re: Dick

      And those of you with the surname "Johnson"... for civility's sake, see a judge about getting that changed.

      1. Charles 9 Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: Dick

        Especially if you were given the name "Tiny"...

    3. stiine Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Dick

      And they also shouldn't try to get it on their car's license plate...

    4. Orv Silver badge

      Re: About time

      Agreed. I'm not offended by the name, but I feel silly recommending something that to many people sounds like it's named after a fetish character in a Tarantino film.

      It's actually long been one of my go-to examples of how open-source projects are awful at picking names. "git" is another one. Everyone I talk to who's hearing the name for the first time reacts with "they call it WHAT?"

      I remember the vulnerability scanner app SATAN used to come with a script to rename it to SANTA, for religious people who were offended.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: About time

        "to many people sounds like it's named after a fetish character in a Tarantino film."

        I respectfully suggest that most (probably over 85%) of the folks who might be offended wouldn't be caught dead watching a Tarantino film. Of the reminder, a vanishingly small number would have any need whatsoever of a program with the power and utility of GIMP or Photoshop. It doesn't take much to put a caption on a cute cat picture, so why suggest it to them in the first place?

        1. Orv Silver badge

          Re: About time

          I didn't say they'd be offended. Something can be stupid/embarrassing without being offensive.

          There's actually kind of a big hole at the low end of photo manipulation software. On Macs there's Preview, which does a good job of cropping and annotating. On Windows I'm not sure what to suggest since Picasa stopped being developed.

    5. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: About time

      Is it? Or is it actually the best way to beat Godwin's Law? One black comedian had a joke saying they should make a snack chip named for the common n-word and watch people forget what is was supposed to mean.

      The best way to beat an insult is to turn it into a compliment.

    6. OssianScotland Silver badge

      Re: Dick

      In the North East of Scotland, there is a car dealership which goes by the name of Macrae & Dick - not that he is boasting in any way.....

      1. trolleybus

        Re: Dick

        And there's a tyre dealer in north Londion called Sambos Tyres

        1. Orv Silver badge

          Re: Dick

          In Santa Barbara, California there's still one location of the old Sambo's restaurant chain, which is a bit jarring.

    7. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Dick

      Not if they are a private detective or a male performer in the adult movie industry.

      Human names are to distinguish us from others. A software name gives a clue to the function of the software, or at least should do. Notepad, Paint, Photoshop, CorelDraw, Illustrator, Inkscape, SolidWorks, AutoCAD, Audition, Office, Word - even a novice would have a fair guess at which one is for writing a letter and which is for drawing shapes.

      1. VikiAi Silver badge
        Meh

        Re: Dick

        Too true! I have no Idea what you would use something called "Graphic Image Manipulation Program" for.

  8. Andy Tunnah

    Huh

    I guess I never made that connection. I've called people a gimp, don't get me wrong, but I've never linked Gimp and gimp. Weird how that works.

    And I'm not saying that in a sarky way. I'm actually OK with all of this. Like we stopped using spacker, and other insults to people's physical well being. If all I have to do to stop a person feeling insulted, is change 1 word, it feels like literally the least effort I could make.

    Glimpse makes it sound like a Chinese knock off though

    1. Muppet Boss

      Re: Huh

      +1 for Glimpse sounding suspiciously abibas. Gimp is a name of an open source graphics editor in many human languages; it is a pity that coincidentally it is also an offensive word in English. Can we rename the offensive g-word into glimpse please and keep the program name intact?

      1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

        Re: Huh

        When I saw "Gimpse" I just though Goatse and decided the new name is FAR worse!

        1. hplasm Silver badge
          Gimp

          Re: Huh

          Try saying 'Glimpse' when you have a cold. the snot bubbles from your none will be offensive to many.

          (Hate words with 'mp' or 'dge' in the middle...)

    2. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: Huh

      I'd personally never heard the term applied to people but rather to things to indicate they're below an accepted standard-bearer (a "gimped" imitation of something). Since such a meaning can apply to the program itself (GIMP being a "gimped" Photoshop), it can result in bad press whether it likes it or not (as language tends to be organic and change only slowly).

  9. Anonymous South African Coward Silver badge
    Joke

    Pimps gimping all over the place

  10. detuur
    Facepalm

    The name is too offensive!

    —they said, so they forked it on git.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The name is too offensive!

      The git forked it real goood.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

  11. Tigra 07 Silver badge
    Gimp

    Damn. I'll have to rename my company now. We create suits for clients based on their specialised needs using GIMP photo editor.

    GimpSuits.co.uk

  12. localzuk

    Next up...

    There's a great tool for finding out what codecs are used by a media file. Maybe they'll change their name next, as its currently "G-Spot".

    1. -v(o.o)v-

      Re: Next up...

      Mediainfo is much better

    2. Mikey

      Re: Next up...

      Yeah, they really should change it... So many people can't seem to find it...

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Visionism

    So what's with this blatently visionist new name "Glimpse" .... didn't they consider how off-putting this will be to potential users who are unsighted?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Visionism

      "Visionism

      So what's with this blatently visionist new name "Glimpse" .... didn't they consider how off-putting this will be to potential users who are unsighted?"

      Awesome, just awesome.

    2. Tigra 07 Silver badge

      Re: Visionism

      Personally i've never met a blind person that uses a photo editor.

      1. BuckeyeB
        Joke

        Re: Visionism

        That sounds exclusionist. Now you'll be telling us that having braille on drive up ATMs is unnecessary too.

        1. Diogenes Silver badge

          Re: Visionism

          Believe it or not one of the first accessible ATMS in Sydney was located at the foot of a flight of 3 stairs and no ramp (doh!)

          1. The Mole

            Re: Visionism

            If its the foot (bottom) that's not a problem as long as the stairs were going up...

            1. Charles 9 Silver badge

              Re: Visionism

              That tends to be implied by the use of the word "foot", meaning the bottom. If they had been going down, the word used would've been "head" or "top".

              That said, I think the problem wasn't blind users but those in wheelchairs.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Visionism

      > So what's with this blatently visionist new name "Glimpse" .... didn't they consider how off-putting this will be to potential users who are unsighted?

      So they dislike the name GIMP because it is slang for a disabled person, especially someone lame, and decide to go with Glimpse instead?

      1. Intractable Potsherd Silver badge

        Re: Visionism

        Hah! Well spotted :-D

  14. GrumpenKraut Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    A discussion starting with "ableist insult"...

    immediately goes thundering down the shitter.

    Colo(u)r me unsurprised.

    1. Garymrrsn
      Pint

      Re: A discussion starting with "ableist insult"...

      "immediately goes thundering down the shitter."

      An argument over minutia, otherwise known as a

      "Tempest in a teapot "

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    >> The team is looking at screenshots of existing image editing application user interfaces to inform design mockups

    Be interesting to see how that goes, since in my experience the thing that puts most people off GIMP is the UI, not the name.

    That said, the MythTV guys did a similar thing not long ago, and they managed to make the single worst UI I've ever seen into something even worse.

    1. gnasher729 Silver badge

      Actually, the name has always put me off from trying it or recommending it to anyone.

    2. Steve Goodey

      Excuse me! You're talking about software I love.

  16. Zot

    Sorry, but I stopped using Gimp as soon as I bought Affinity Photo - it's so much better, and only 50 quid for life. It also kicks Photosh*t in the face!

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Scrolled down a long screen to reach the choices: Mac, Windows, iPad. So, no, there's a reason why I won't be buying it.

      They have a modicum of sympathy, though; Google Affinity Photo and there's an ad for Adobe at the top of the list. <spit>

    2. DrBed
      Facepalm

      "AP's so much better, only 50 quid..."

      > Sorry, but I stopped using Gimp as soon as I bought Affinity Photo - it's so much better, and only 50 quid for life. It also kicks Photosh*t in the face!

      Does it have G'MIC or AnimStack? I didn't think so. Yeah, so much beter.

      Also I bet you never heard of Krita...

  17. David 18

    Masks

    I'll never forget the time, at work, that without thinking I googled how to use the masking technique in GIMP. With the benefit of hindsight the outcome was expected...

  18. Robin

    "I don't like the name GIMP. Will you change it?"

    I find the name "Visual Studio Code" offensive because it's sight-ist and I want it changed.

    Won't somebody think of the glasses wearers!

  19. mark l 2 Silver badge

    I don't buy that changing the name would have caused confusion with people who used the software. Companies re-brand stuff all the time and it often increases uptake. And off the top of my head I can thing of two open source projects that renamed, Firebird to Firefox, XBMC to Kodi and it doesn't seen to have harmed them.

    1. iron Silver badge

      Almost no one outside Mozilla knew Firefox as Firebird, it was only named that for about a week because I pointed out the clash with the Firebird database before the name was made public, so it would have no effect. Now if you'd called it Phoenix maybe...

      1. Dwarf Silver badge

        How about a database engine called Phoenix.

        It might crash, but it will come up fine each time and your data might just rise from the ashes too.

        Which reminds me, how exactly do you cook a Phoenix ?

        1. Wellyboot Silver badge
        2. dmacleo

          very quickly....

        3. stiine Silver badge

          re: how exactly do you cook a Phoenix

          In a sealed oven. You just don't have to turn it on.

        4. eldakka Silver badge
          Thumb Up

          That's be a good backup product name, especially if it was capable of bare-metal restores.

    2. devTrail

      The problem is not the name change, but how quickly the discussion degenerated and how quickly they decided to fork the software. They didn't make any preparation and they didn't give people time to think, definitely this will eventually cause some divisions within the community.

  20. BigSLitleP Silver badge

    Look, i'm about as PC as they come. Left wing, environmentalist, feminist. (Yes i know this is El Reg, yes i know I'm painting a target on my back)

    This is nonsense. How many people nowadays know the word gimp? If it was called "FAG" (Free Advanced Graphical tool) or "NAZI" (..........I can't come up with an acronym, feel free to start a competition below!) then I could understand it. Even i get sick of people's touchiness.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Google. Blame Google.

      Search strings? Like, if you want to advertise or get a program/project out there, you need both unique and user/school/accountant safe search terms. Else you end up losing out to filters.

      While Glimpse may not be a unique hit, it is not filtered. Take up the name with marketing if the new one is no good, but understand the old one may get blocked more often.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Look, i'm about as PC as they come. Left wing, environmentalist, feminist. (Yes i know this is El Reg, yes i know I'm painting a target on my back)

      As somebody who is none of these things I don't see why anybody would care about any of those things.

      Left Wing? Nobody cares. Until we start told that unapproved thinking is wrongthink or thoughtcrime, which your not doing.

      Enviromentalist? Believe it or not, *nobody* wants to actually turn this ball into an uninhabitable rock. Many of us may however disagree with the best methods to prevent it from becoming an uninhabitable rock.

      Feminist? Most people are, if you take the meaning as being "equal rights and opportunities for females". Support only drops off a cliff when exceedingly unreasonable things are demanded.

      And yes, gimp is a stupid name that needs to go away as the product grows up.

      1. BigSLitleP Silver badge

        I've given you an upvote for being a sensible person. You're right, most people don't (and shouldn't) care about the things i've listed. They just tend to make people start shouting "SJW!" from the roof tops.

        I guess i just don't see the problem, which ironically is the same answer I get for most of the causes i've listed from people that drive me up the wall. When asked for a free graphics tool, I always answer "try gimp" and very few people have gone "what did you just say!?", they normally say "What's that and how much does it cost?". If more people threw a strop about it, i'd be more inclined to back the name change. At least it's just a fork.

      2. Teiwaz Silver badge

        Look, i'm about as PC as they come. Left wing, environmentalist, feminist. (Yes i know this is El Reg, yes i know I'm painting a target on my back)

        Someone once asked me if I was a feminist, I replied they might as well ask me if I was a Roundhead or a Cavalier, as far as I was concerned, that was a war long over before I was born.

      3. stiine Silver badge
        Mushroom

        re: Believe it or not, *nobody* wants to actually turn this ball into an uninhabitable rock.

        Oh yes I do.

    3. Phil Lord

      (Yes i know this is El Reg, yes i know I'm painting a target on my back)

      The Register is not really known as an abode of the left wing. There are a set of people around with those opinions, but they (well, we) hardly overwhelm the place.

      In this case, there are a number of issues with the name GIMP -- as well as having alternative definitions that are not good, it's also a big acronym that doesn't suggest the use of the software. Neither of these are particularly sensible from an advertising point of view. Sodipodi died a death for a somewhat related reason (no one could remember it).

      I'm a little unconvinced that renaming GIMP is worth the effort, but it is not a good name, nor has it ever been. This is far from being touchy.

      1. Intractable Potsherd Silver badge

        "... it's also a big acronym that doesn't suggest the use of the software."

        If we insisted on software having a name that described its function, then there are a lot that need to go: Access; Excel; PowerPoint; Firefox; Edge; Brave; Opera; Vivaldi... I'm sure people can add more.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        The Register is not really known as an abode of the left wing. There are a set of people around with those opinions, but they (well, we) hardly overwhelm the place.

        Well, naturally. "left wing" and "right wing" are merely attempts by mainstream politicians to build power bases by causing divisions into "tribes" and then deliberately causing arguments between tribes that they can then benefit from in true "divide et impera" fashion. The mainstream politicians are more or less a mindless slaves to the opinion of one or the other most prominent long dead economic theorists who had a good grasp of issues of either one or two hundred years ago, but given that those theories were based on conditions that no longer exist an application of their ideas in todays world is more or less impossible.

        Tech issues are happily more or less devoid of mainstream politics since the dead economic theorists in question were either dead before electricity generation was invented in one case, or in the other dead before gas lighting had been eliminated, let along before computing came along so both have no opinions to offer on tech issues.

        Most political figures therefore can't wrap their heads around the issues, and when politicians do try and get involved their attempts usually unite the entire technical community in mockery of their complete and utter lack of any understanding of the issues. This leaves the space reasonably free of people screaming "YOU MUST THINK $THIS", which means that the space is more or less exclusively comprised of free thinkers who roundly mock any stupid idea on it's lack of merit. As the free thinkers are the majority, the "followers" tend to be the ones coming out with the outright vicious kickings of stupid ideas that other people have clinically dissected and shown to be terrible ideas.

    4. swampdog

      New Authorized Zany Inker.

      Never Ask Zak Inside.

      I can think of a backronym which would offend the entire planet so best not!

      1. A K Stiles

        Need Alternative Zeitgeist Immediately

  21. msknight Silver badge

    I have to admit...

    ...that as a BDSM practitioner, the software being called GIMP has caused more than a few issues in my and neighbouring dungeons.

    The errors and miscommunications that have come about, "resizing," "snapping," and most commonly, "cropping," have resulted in more things being bruised than just egos.

    Unfortunately I do envisage a period of more pain and discomfort as the discussion will now inevitably turn to "The GIMP was forked." and a few people will inevitably go off in as much of a flutter as their chains will let them, and we'll have to calm down the poor dears.

    Am I joking? ... You'll never know.

    1. Benson's Cycle

      Re: I have to admit...

      But surely a period of more pain and discomfort is exactly what your clients want? It seems to be a win/win situation.

  22. TechnicalBen Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Good move.

    I have no problem with new words and definitions, or with language progressing or changing. If done correctly.

    Here, no one is changing the meaning of an old word, "Unlimited" internet being limited. No one is saying the old word is forbidden.

    It's just realising, that, especially in our multilingual connected internet world, an acrynim that is now connected to a different meaning word, does not fit the best aspect of the software it is suppose to describe. Or that a in joke/meaning may not translate globally (you may call your friends by a nickname, but it may not work or be understood in public).

    I'll give Glimpse a go, and a chance. Recommend it to friends!

  23. JimPoak

    On the other hand.

    Changing the name of the following :-

    Windows 10,Windows 8.1,Windows 8,Windows 7,Windows Vista,Windows XP Professional x64 Edition,Windows XP,Windows Me,Windows 2000,Windows 98,Windows NT 4.0,Windows 95,Windows NT 3.51,Windows NT 3.5,Windows 3.2,Windows for Workgroups 3.11,Windows NT 3.1,Windows 3.1,Windows 3.0,Windows 2.11,Windows 2.10,Windows 2.03,Windows 1.04,Windows 1.03,Windows 1.02,Windows 1.0

    didn't make product any better.

    1. BigSLitleP Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: On the other hand.

      No but changing the product did.....

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: On the other hand.

        Better?

  24. Fat Bob

    Bring out the GIMP

    I've never heard of gimp referring to a disabled person. I've only ever heard it in respect to some guy in a rubber suit, and that's only because of Pulp Fiction. Well, mainly because of Pulp Fiction.

    I'm not sure if this helps the argument either way but I thought I'd mention it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Bring out the GIMP

      I find the name "Bob" to be sexist, offensive and demeaning to fellatists. I demand that everyone named Bob should be called Bert. Rob is not acceptable as it implies theft such as being robbed of virginity or as the case of today's society that has been clearly robbed of sanity.

  25. disgruntled yank Silver badge

    Hate to tell you this

    But the word gimp is also used for plastic strips used weave lanyards, fabric used to trim upholstery, etc. Schoolchildren, upholsterers, and many others have been exposed to the word, and most have survived.

    (Oddly enough, Wikipedia's entry on gimp is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoubidou .)

  26. PhillW

    A Boaty McBoatface moment

    compo time:

    What would YOU rename GIMP to?

    1. Not Enough Coffee

      Re: A Boaty McBoatface moment

      GUMP

    2. Persona Bronze badge

      Re: A Boaty McBoatface moment

      GMGF

    3. Anomalous Custard

      Re: A Boaty McBoatface moment

      Gimpy McGimpface, obviously

    4. Grikath
      Trollface

      Re: A Boaty McBoatface moment

      it has not earned the right to a name yet....

      1. Long John Brass Silver badge

        Re: A Boaty McBoatface moment

        How about G-IMP, or GNU-IMP. We could have a cute little IMPish mascot/icon

    5. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: A Boaty McBoatface moment

      Photo and Image X-formation and Editing Line. How's that?

    6. Korev Silver badge
      Gimp

      Re: A Boaty McBoatface moment

      Foto Updating Correction Kurves

    7. JakeMS
      Joke

      Re: A Boaty McBoatface moment

      STFU - Software That Forever Unites

      This is perfect for bringing the community together and avoiding offensive words like "GIMP".

    8. TVU

      Re: A Boaty McBoatface moment

      "What would YOU rename GIMP to?"

      GNU Image Editor - GIE to rhyme with pie. Simples, innit?

      1. Kiwi Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: A Boaty McBoatface moment

        GNU Image Editor - GIE to rhyme with pie. Simples, innit?

        Also rhymes with "guy", you sexist pig!

  27. hammarbtyp Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    But what about those poor windows users

    Isn't the word Microsoft discriminatory to those with below sized todgers with erectile dysfunction?

    Will no one think of the children!

  28. fobobob

    Alternative Suggestion

    Gnu Picture Manipulation Program -- GPiMP

    1. stiine Silver badge

      Re: Alternative Suggestion

      So, a Google Pimp? I'm not sure that's any better.

  29. Zippy´s Sausage Factory

    My initial thoughts were "name change? meh, not gonna make much difference."

    But I do have to say, a front end UI rewrite sounds like a good idea. A general spruce up would make me happy, so much as I've loved using GIMP all these years, I shall be trying Glimpse at the first opportunity.

    1. cornetman Bronze badge

      IIRC, the GIMP has a Blender style UI remodel in the pipeline anyway.

      At least from the last time I looked at their roadmap.

  30. Tom 35 Silver badge

    They should have changed the name to GID

    Gimp In Disguise.

    1. Charlie van Becelaere
      Devil

      "They should have changed the name to GID - Gimp In Disguise."

      Or perhaps GIMP - GIMP Is My Predecessor?

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Oh, very well played, sir.

      2. Nick Kew Silver badge

        In the best GNU tradition

        GINP Is Not GIMP?

  31. Persona Bronze badge

    So a Gimp is a bad thing now?

    Times have changed. Not so long ago "a Glimpse of stocking was looked on as something shocking".

    1. VonDutch

      Re: So a Gimp is a bad thing now?

      But now...

      god knows...

  32. John 104

    Who Complained

    Other than people wringing their hands over the perceived insensitivity of the acronym, have there been any people who actually have a physical malady complaining? Is it like the Washington Redskins, or Kansas City Chiefs arguments by like minded hand wringers who determined that these names were offensive only to realize that Native Americans have no issue with them whatsoever?

    1. stiine Silver badge
      Megaphone

      Re: Who Complained

      And also why the Florida Seminole tribe told off the morons who wanted to rename the Florida State University Seminoles to something else.

    2. Jaaaaaam

      Re: Who Complained

      Er, the Washington Redskins didn't offend any Native Americans?

      Wiki I know, but:

      Native Americans have been questioning the use of the name and image since the 1960s, while the topic has received widespread public attention since the 1990s. Native Americans demanding change include tribal nations, national tribal organizations, civil rights organizations, and individuals.[2] The largest of these organizations, the National Congress of American Indians, counted the enrollment of its member tribes as totaling 1.2 million individuals in 2013.

      It's a long, long way from "some Native Americans are fine with the name" to "Native Americans have no issue with the name whatsoever"

  33. Huw D Silver badge

    Go full Red Dwarf/Rimmer on them and call it Gimboid.

  34. Nik 2
    WTF?

    Come on, Pedents...

    Nearly eightly posts and no-one has pointed out that the second paragrpahs expands the acronym incorrectly:

    <quote>The name is an acronym for “General Image Manipulation Program”<quote>

    GNU Image Manipulation Program, as given correctly further down the article.

    1. Steve K Silver badge

      Re: Come on, Pedents...

      May I be the 94th person to point out that the spelling is “pedants”?

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Come on, Pedents...

        That's Muphry's law for you.

  35. James 47

    GIMP's UI is offensive.

    1. karlkarl Bronze badge

      Do you mean as soon as they went with the dark theme?

      Suddenly everything feels slower and less crisp.

      Back in the day when the tools, image and properties were all separate windows (this was common on UNIX) and it had issues with a lot of window managers. It was fiddly and awkward. However I would still prefer that over the current state.

      Luckily for me my art skills are so crap; I can use mtPaint and not notice any decrease in my productivity / quality XD

    2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Sadly, that is the most depressing part of the whole story in my opinion. If they were just intending to make Glimpse "GIMP but with a different name" so that they automatically inherit all future work on the upstream code then I would not have a problem. But no, they've already announced plans to split the developer base in two by diverging from upstream.

      (You may argue that such plans don't, in themselves, split the developer base. But the number of willing FOSS developers is a finite resource and I'm struggling to think of a case where some took an existing FOSS product, forked it, and increased the amount of work going into either branch post-fork. On the other hand, I don't struggle at all to remember counter-examples like LibreOffice, which survives only because OpenOffice so very obviously died on the vine within a few months of the split.)

  36. sabroni Silver badge
    Unhappy

    open source

    No one in this thread seems to understand what that means.

    It doesn't mean you get to tell other people what they can do with their fork of your project. It does mean that if you say " go ahead and rename this if you like" someone might fork it and rename it.

  37. Teiwaz Silver badge

    Just drop the G

    Then you've something delightfully cheeky and artful and not something in a rubber suit that eats live animals.

    or just a font and case change gImp

    1. Steve K Silver badge

      Re: Just drop the G

      If you monkey with the interface then how about CHIMP?

    2. this

      Re: Just drop the G

      FYI Geek = someone who eats live animals - not gimp.

      Also means someone with an unhealthy interest in tech I believe - not sre how that came about.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: Just drop the G

        http://catb.org/jargon/html/G/geek.html

        And now you know.

  38. AntiSol

    Glimpse, huh? There's a git repo that will be dead in three months.

  39. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "gimp" is an ableist insult

    I am OUTRAGED!!!! On behalf of all glipsists, pardon me, antiglimpsists, I'm also gravely, ney, eternally grateful to those brave antisouls who took the matters into their disablist upper limbs to fix this festering injustice. Excuse me, I need to depart to twitter about it and facebook about it NOW, Oh, I'm SO OUTRAGED!!!

  40. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    OED "an unpleasant or contemptible person."

    On github no less. Seriously, what is wrong with these people?

  41. sid1950

    An interesting issue. I've been using GIMP exclusively for about 15 years. Before that I used PhotoShop. Before that CorelDraw, and QuarkExpress. In the commercial software / hardware world advertising is most important. Back in the early days of computers there would be conversations along these lines:

    Tech guy: I think we need a Guild xxxx for this project.

    Procurement guy: Is it made by IBM?

    There was a joke: "What is a computer?", "A big blue box with IBM on the side."

    For me the name GIMP hasn't been a problem. 30 odd years ago one of the regulars in my local pub was a young woman with Cerebral Palsy. She was smart and funny, and worked as a software engineer for a security company who specialized in the banking sector. She liked to come into the bar on a busy night and shout "Make way for The Gimp!" very loudly".

    However, like a lot of FOSS, the practice of naming applications in a humorous way is great for those who understand, but really difficult for those who don't. GIMP actually stands for GNU Image Manipulation Program. Now try to explain GNU! "Its an iterative acronym, it means Gnu is Not Unix" Collapse of stout party! I don't mind trying to explain all this. My experience with computers goes back to 1968! I know and understand most of the history. So in this case, while I will probably continue to use GIMP because I understand and like the UI, I will follow the development of Glimpse with interest. If I'm still around in 10 years, who knows I might be using it then!

    I will only ask one thing, please try to use QT for the UI! I use OpenSuse as my main desktop distro with KDE Plasma for the desktop. I consider myself a power user, and I can make it do exactly what I want. For laptops I use LUBUNTU. It works on all my devices, including a 13 year old MacBook. What I have found is that with the newest versions of both distros, QT based apps worked better on Ubuntu, than GTK on OpenSuse, in terms of the amount of dependencies needed. If you have all the needed dependencies installed GTK on rpm, or QT on deb are both seamless. It's just that my experience is that the latest version of QT works really well on deb, without having to have the whole KDE backend.

    One other thing to mention here. GIMP is the go-to for the film industry. It was used by WETA for the Lord of the Rings & Hobbit. The reason? Being FOSS, they can write their own plug-ins. The graphics world is being divided into two camps. A commercial camp where procurement is dictated by the "know-nothing" bean counters, and the professional world where the users dictate, and FOSS will eventually rule. I'm retired, after spending 25 years as a Video Editor (initially Video Tape Editor!) and still have friends in the industry. All the London FX houses use FOSS. They all have Linux server farms for rendering. Workstations are either Mac or Linux. Some versions of Avid or FinalCut Pro editing software may run on a Windows workstation, but there are a lot of high-end editing, FX and color grading apps that now run on Linux. And the editing software that I preferred and still regard as the Rolls Royce of editing apps, Lightworks, is available for all platforms. So I have the free version, and use GIMP and Blender for captions & FX.

    End of rambling! Good luck with the fork.

    1. DrBed

      @sid1950

      Agree with most of it, just this:

      I will only ask one thing, please try to use QT for the UI! (snip) QT based apps worked better on Ubuntu, than GTK on OpenSuse, in terms of the amount of dependencies needed.

      ...use MATE @Mint (or Ubuntu) instead: good, old, stable and fast Gnome 2x / GTK - GIMP likes it ;)

    2. Korev Silver badge
      Childcatcher

      I'm always surprised that no one seems to pick on QT as "cutie" could be seen to be sexist.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You've just listed why the "year of desktop Linux" is still forecast around 20.000 CE

      1) Stupid application names which are not-marketable and in an era of search engines will flood you with thousands of irrelevant results.

      2) Software fragmentation, compatibility issues, and bad UI libraries.

      3) The movie industry has usually so much money, especially for big productions, they will use whatever fits their given needs better, or fits the "vision" of the leading people. You will find they use everything, and also have the money to customize whatever they use. Rendering is a pure computational task that doesn't need much on an UI. Guess anyway most preliminary work is made on Apple machines and Adobe software.... probably just because of the input hardware support.

      That's completely different for most other business that have not that budget. If you're a freelance photographer, you need an application that works out of the box - you don't have tens of developers tailoring it to your needs.

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    My virtue signalling detector has just gone off the scale.

  43. Chris Hills
    Coat

    I always thought

    GIMP would have been a better name for a LaTeX editor.

    1. stiine Silver badge

      Re: I always thought

      Jesus! I haven't had to use LaTeX in over 25 years. Can you still destroy network printers with it?

    2. Korev Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: I always thought

      Brilliant. Have a cold one Mr Hills -->

  44. felix_rufus

    But it is taken

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLIMPSE

    " GLIMPSE is a text indexing and retrieval software program originally developed at the University of Arizona by Udi Manber, Sun Wu, and Burra Gopal. It was released under the ISC license in September 2014.

    GLIMPSE stands for GLobal IMPlicit SEarch...."

    1. Daniel von Asmuth
      Windows

      Re: But it is taken

      They could always port the GIMP to Windows and christen it WIMP.

      http://webglimpse.net/

      1. Benson's Cycle

        Re: But it is taken

        Weakly Interacting Massive Particle? Not very intuitive.

        Remember Ford Sierra (means "saw" in Spanish)? Fortunately few people who visited Spain from the UK ever bothered to learn the language.

        Rolls Royce missed an own goal in Germany by not launching the Silver Mist there.

        (Daimler people say it's "Bayerische MistWagen" - Bavarian dungcart).

        FIAT did the same by not launching the Ritmo in the UK as the "Rhythm" due to the association of Italians with Catholics and Catholics with an unreliable means of contraception.

        tl;dr a name change isn't a bad idea. But I don't feel that Glimpse is the answer. Go the whole hog, call it FRUIT (Fotoshop* Replacement, User Interface Terrible.)

        *Because Photoshop is a registered trade mark,so can't be used.

        1. Anonymous C0ward
          Gimp

          Re: But it is taken

          It even came with a free gift.

      2. Nick Kew Silver badge

        Re: But it is taken

        They could always port the GIMP to Windows and christen it WIMP.

        Talking of which, why did the WIMP get renamed? It's so much less clumsy to pronounce than GUI, and even thirty years on we're still using Windows, Icons, Menus and Pointers.

    2. jake Silver badge

      Re: But it is taken

      So was Slack. It didn't stop the kiddies from pre-empting it, though ...

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Glad to see all the world's serious problems have been resolved so we can finally move on to the fixing everything that offends anybody. This move will surely benefit society as a whole.

  46. Fizban64

    It's so easy to be offended these days

    Well the title says it all, it really is easy these days for people to be offended. Perhaps there is far to much fluoride in the water. They better calm our mass drugging down a bit. Gimp is well known and loved, not like pulp fiction gimp, but we can all, well most of us can, differentiate between the two.

    Seems very childish to me, grow up folks and grow a backbone.

    1. Benson's Cycle

      Re: It's so easy to be offended these days

      "Perhaps there is far to much fluoride in the water."

      Flagged as offensive to halogens.

    2. sabroni Silver badge

      Re: Seems very childish to me, grow up folks and grow a backbone.

      You've got to be talking about the reaction of the posters in this thread yeah? The only people massively upset by this are you lot. The people who forked it had a perfectly calm, rational discussion and decided to Fork the project. You lot have lost your shit big time over the fact a renamed fork has been created.

      Most kids aren't this fucking stupid.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: Seems very childish to me, grow up folks and grow a backbone.

        What you are seeing, Sabroni, is backlash against the fuckwits who presume to be offended on the behalf of others. It's getting to the point where nobody can say anything about anything without somebody pretending to get upset about it in somebody else's name. Frankly, I find it grossly offensive that somebody might presume to be offended in my name. Be offended for yourself, by all means, but keep my good name out of your fantasy.

        1. sabroni Silver badge

          Re: What you are seeing, Sabroni, is backlash against the fuckwits

          No, what I am seeing is a bunch of entitled children throwing a hissy fit because someone had the cheek to fork an open source project and rename it, like the original project maintainers said they could.

          Pick a fight when someone says GIMP can't be called GIMP anymore, not when someone creates a fork with a vaguely sensible name in an attempt to make the product more popular and well used.

          Shouting "I'm not throwing a tantrum" while lying on the floor kicking your legs around doesn't mean you're not throwing a tantrum.

      2. Handle123456

        Re: Seems very childish to me, grow up folks and grow a backbone.

        Perfectly calm maybe, but absolutely irrational.

        Yeah, renaming a twenty years old project because some spoiled always-ready-to-feel-offended kiddies get offended by the name as it matches some slang, most likely newer than the app. Rational. Sure.

  47. jake Silver badge

    I suggest ...

    ... nay, I DEMAND that every word, in any Human language, that might be misunderstood as something completely different than as intended by the speaker/author (regardless of the language of the listener/reader) be changed immediately!

    It'll get rid of all puns, but at least the namby-pamby set will sleep better at night.

    And you won't get arrested for trying to gift a German ...

    1. Jou (Mxyzptlk)

      Re: I suggest ...

      German?

      Du = You

      Du hast = you did, but misread as hate, and also sung as "hate"

      Du hast mich = You did me, not well translatable

      Du hast mich gefragt = You asked me. Or more literal: You did me ask

      "hast" can mean: Haste, did, hate, "Do you have" something....

      But still English has the biggest thesaurus. Only to be beaten be Simplified English from that big colony to the west with that orange "elected" president...

  48. karlkarl Bronze badge

    gLIMPse is absolutely an ablest derogative term for those with erectile dysfunction!

    GNU Limp Special Edition absolutely needs a different name. Who wants to join my fork!!!

  49. chucklepie

    I did a search. The dictionary says it's something to do with needlework, the urban dictionary says it's a genetic insult.

    Am I alone in gimp being the name of a middle aged man in leather who licks his mistresses boots?

    No idea where ableist comes from though.

    1. Kiwi Silver badge
      Coat

      No idea where ableist comes from though.

      It's a typo. Basically, an 1860's version of Craigslist. Someone swapped the L and E...

  50. RacerX
    Trollface

    Sideshow Freaks

    I'm typing this on a computer I just had upgraded by the Geek Squad. I feel just fine. The box is spinning in greased grooves. No tears were shed.

  51. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Apache Tomcat

    Sexually voracious tribal native-American female?

  52. stuartnz

    As someone born with cerebral palsy, I've always kind of LIKED describing myself as a gimp who uses GIMP. That said, I get the arguments against the name (there's a big difference between owning an insult as your own badge and having it thrown at you, this I know very well) and find the developer's FAQ response a little disappointing. As others have already said, setting aside the issue of whether it is "ableist", its name, for a variety of reasons, is or may be hindering uptake and awareness, so why not change it? GLIMPSE is a great rebranding, keeping both the original name AND more obviously linking to what the software does. I wish the fork well, and will keep an eye on its development.

  53. dmacleo

    I have sight issues, the word glimpse triggers me.

    change it now.

    fking little pussies.

  54. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Even if our project falls flat on its face..."

    Which, I'd bet has a decidedly non-zero chance of happening if the current code base is going to arbitrarily be changed from whatever it's currently written in to same trendy language that will force every bit of code to be re-written -- and likely be pretty buggy -- until a critical mass of developers who know the new language come up to speed on the application's functionality. Changing the underlying programming language ought to require that the fork go all the way back to V0.0.1. The GIMP team gave you the opportunity to fork the project and merely change the name. Why not simply stop there? (Jeez, the CentOS people weren't crazy enough to fork Red Hat AND re-write it in a new language.)

    1. stiine Silver badge

      Re: "Even if our project falls flat on its face..."

      Ummmm....I think you'll find that Lennart Poettering actually works for IBM/RedHat... and yes, that ****** destroys just about everything he touches. Perhaps he'll finish breaking IBM.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: "Even if our project falls flat on its face..."

        All evidence suggests that Poettering works for himself, he's well known for not playing well with others. IBM/RedHat merely pays the bills.

  55. Alan W. Rateliff, II

    Fork them and their istisms.

  56. Lorribot

    it all about what you see

    Whilst to me Gimp has more sexual connotations, as in a Gimp mask, that only come second in the offensive stakes to it's badly mangled user interface that is like a poor imitation of Windows 3.1. which pretty damning of a a product that is supposed to be all about design and good imagery.

  57. Zarno
    Gimp

    You know what I say?

    FORK THAT!

    They can take my acronyms from my clammy rubber covered... Oh, hello Mum, no, not what you think...

    Posted non-anon just to use the icon.

  58. Sloppy Crapmonster

    I'm erneral the eighth I am!

    I'm eneral the eighth I am I am.

    I adopted the license of the project next door

    It's been forked seven times before

    And every one of them was an eneral

    It wouldn't be a BSD or a.. oh fuck, I've lost it, never mind

  59. cornetman Bronze badge

    Personally, I think the last thing that the free software movement needs at this point in time is two subtly diverging GIMPs vying for attention.

    If Glimpse survives, I can see confusion as to what plugins work with which version (quite frankly, there is enough confusion as is).

    I also don't believe that the name is that big of an issue. It seems to be a purely American thing. The rest of the world just doesn't care enough to get behind it.

    But then I cannot fathom why people lose their shit about the difference between "coloured people" and "people of colour". Again, this seems to a peculiarly American issue.

    The comparison has been made with other splits. Usually, successful splits have been over issues that the main contributors have passionately believed in.

    The LibreOffice/OpenOffice split was won almost before it had begun and had overwhelming support from the community right from the start for fundamentally free-software principles.

    I can understand the Glimpse dev's stance and more power to them if they feel *that* strongly about it.

    I just don't think there is sufficient reason or justification for it to succeed.

    I think a good comparison would be Devuan. I have to take my hat off to them for standing up for their principles and they support a need. But it is never going to take over from Ubuntu or Mint.

  60. -tim
    Devil

    Satan vs Santa?

    The late 80s security tool Security Administrator Tool for Analyzing Networks (SATAN) came with a program called Repent that renamed it to Security Analysis Network Tool for Administrators (SANTA).

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Satan vs Santa?

      But SATAN and SANTA are one and the same.

      Consider that Halloween and Christmas are the same holiday ... As any techie will tell you, OCT 31 and DEC 25 are equal. Besides, have you ever seen Saint Nick and Old Nick in the same room together? I thought not.

      Makes sense, though ... Who would YOU pick as the patron saint for the holiday best known for hedonism, libertinism, decadence and debauchery?

  61. tempemeaty

    I violently approve

    Given a lottery win of sufficient size I'd financially assist the project to reach GTK 3 so it can to get it there fast as possible. Then I'd dump ludicrous amounts of money on the fork to empower them to really update the software and take it to a new level of awesome.

    ⎝(。◁゚)⎠(╹◡╹)

  62. FrankAlphaXII
    Coat

    I'm sure it's been said...

    But the only meaning of the word Gimp that I know is a slang term for a submissive in a BDSM context.

    To put it in San Franciscan: They're kink-shaming and erasing the identity of those that participate in a BDSM lifestyle by changing the name to this, so I suggest the "Digital Object Manipulation and Mastering Experience", or DOMME. It gets rid of any ableist baggage and allows those involved in BDSM to proudly identify with the project.....

    Yes yes, I'll see myself out. Mine's the one with the riding crop in the pocket.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'm sure it's been said...

      If I could upvote more than once I would.

      I wonder if anyone would be so kind as to make a banner utility plugin for fanfold paper, and call it dotimatrix.

      Or a professional level plugin to merge multiple images taken with defined time periods between them into a GIF? Could call it Pro-Lapse...

  63. Cheshire Cat
    Thumb Up

    Being outside the US I needed to look up what the word means out there.

    If they can fix that abysmal UI then they can call it Susan for all I care.

    1. jake Silver badge

      You do know that ...

      ... you can re-skin GIMP to look and work like Photoshop, right?

      1. Handle123456

        Re: You do know that ...

        Nope. They are going to deskin it so that it feels offended by each and every move of the stylus or mouse.

    2. DuncanLarge Silver badge

      I think the older UI was great. Recently it has become a bit of a mess but at least its keeping its general layout so its navigable.

    3. Mage Silver badge

      GUI

      It's got TWO GUIs.

      One suits a single screen and one suits a two screen setup.

      Gimp was a type of thread (more than 70 years ago) and has had two other meanings since. A terrible acronym.

  64. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Graphics Exchange dot com

    There was a Canadian rag called Graphics Exchange. Lots of eye candy for designers, really nice stock and process. It had an eponymous website which, as you might imagine, must've disappointed some visitors looking for a somewhat kinkier kind of 'eye candy.'

    Anyway, the name 'GIMP' has always ensured that most potential users won't take the program seriously. I wonder if they stick with the name for that reason, so as to lower people's expectations and to let them know it really isn't a serious alternative to Photoshop.

    Flame on!

  65. decoherence

    Ignorance?

    It is clear that some of the commenters here don't have any disabled friends. I can just imagine telling my friend with cerebral palsy, who can only walk with extreme difficulty and lives with near constant pain, that he should use the GIMP. 'No, it's okay, it stands for GNU Image Manipulation Program!' I'd tell him. 'Oh, well in THAT case I'll totally use a program that blithely shares its name with something aholes have been calling me all my life!' He'd say. Except with sarcasm. No, I would point him at Glimpse and be grateful for their efforts.

    1. DuncanLarge Silver badge

      Re: Ignorance?

      Ignorance has nothing to do with it. Its just an example of language being different across the world.

      In fact, as The GIMP was created at the University of California back in 1995 it shows that language was different back then, or just in that area.

      I know of many american terms that cause offense over here in Blighty but we just laugh it off as silly americanisms. I remember as a kid almost choking when Marge Simpson offered Bart a "fanny pack" or when some character on another programme told people he keeps his wallet in his pants, something that would be pretty disgusting if you mention this to someone in the UK when you offer to lend them money from said wallet.

      I've also gotten used to ignoring the blatent swearing that amerians do on youtube whenever they use their fingers to represent the number 2 when counting.

      1. decoherence

        Re: Ignorance?

        Yes, it is ignorance. What you described in your first couple of sentences is ignorance. It isn't a four letter word or a judgement on character, it's just something that's good to be rid of. Maybe some commenters have friends with CP who are ignorant of what the word gimp can mean because it isn't used that way where they live. That's fine for them but their ignorance (again, no aspersions!) doesn't change a thing. Also, I'm not casting aspersions on the developers at UC. I dont know why they picked that name and its not germane to what I'm saying.

        On a lighter note, I'm touring the US right now and yesterday passed a beer store that advertised that they'd fill your growler. So yeah, language can be funny. It's good to be aware of how it can be funny and who your audience is.

        1. Kiwi Silver badge

          Re: Ignorance?

          That's fine for them but their ignorance (again, no aspersions!) doesn't change a thing.

          The truly ignorant are those who choose to be offended on another's behalf, especially when it's over a colloquialism that has a different meaning in the context used, or where no offence was intended.

          If I intend to offend you, your family or your friends (or culture), you yourself may be offended. If I do not intend to offend you, you have no right nor reason to be offended - even if it seems I intended to offend someone else. I get so sick of ignorant arrogant scum who think they have a right to be offended on other's behalf. Keep your self-righteous mitts OFF and get your nose out of my life. (not aimed at decoherence unless you fit the description :) )

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Ignorance?

            Nope. Not being offended on behalf of someone else. Passing on the message it is offensive. But not for "offense", but that you will lose customers/users because of it.

            If I don't like chocolate, and you only sell chocolate flavour ice cream, you lose the customer. GIMP could look to gain some users if they change their name/system/gui a little.

            1. Kiwi Silver badge
              Pint

              Re: Ignorance?

              Nope. Not being offended on behalf of someone else. Passing on the message it is offensive. But not for "offense", but that you will lose customers/users because of it.

              Not likely really. Maybe they won't gain some, but anyone who uses it knows what it is, what the name is, and what the UI looks like, and enjoys using it anyway.

              If I don't like chocolate, and you only sell chocolate flavour ice cream, you lose the customer.

              Or you never get the customer. I'm a specialist in chocolate ice cream, I strive to make the best I can. I do a great job because I don't dilute my expertise with other stuff.

              If I don't sell a product you like don't come to my store. Are you the sort of person who expects to get cheese'n'ham on rye at a hardware store?

              A very bad analogy anyway, as I've worked in a couple of specialist shops and much prefer to buy from them - I'll get terrible meat at the supermarket, piss-poor fruit and veg, and mediocre deserts. The bakery however - their stuff has to come via divine inspiration! The worst butcher in the area does exquisite meat and even their cheapest sausages are far superior to the crap the supermarket serves, and the greengrocer? Fresh, sold by experts who can advise on all sorts of new cooking ideas - not the garbage that was fresh sometime last year that rots on the supermarket shelves.

              (No, I don't have the time to shop around - but I make the time because life is way to short for supermarket swill)

              GIMP could look to gain some users if they change their name/system/gui a little.

              And they'll loose a hell of a lot more. Why should I have to re-learn my workflow because some people are just unable to understand the simplistic interface? Why should I have to re-learn the name because someone chooses to be offended by something that is not intended to be offensive?

              It's not an offensive term, as a word or acronym. In whatever of the many definitions there are, it is not and never was offensive. But some people choose to be offended by the silliest little things, and the rest of us should have to suffer?

              If you think "G.I.M.P" is offensive, I suggest you get out of your sheltered little world and travel a bit - see what things are like in other cultures, learn that words have many more than one meaning. As that terrible 80's (or 70's?) sitcom theme song said - "what might be right for you may not be right for some".

    2. THAT_guy_

      Re: Ignorance?

      Common sense?

      Or you could just start by saying "GNU Image Manipulation Program" to preempt the possibility that your friend might be offended by the acronym, in the event this conversation were ever to occur.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: Ignorance?

        But as we all know, so-called common sense is neither.

  66. Esme

    Good luck to 'em!

    I'm not personally bothered about the name (although I take their point about marketability), but I absolutely 100% support anyone willing to put work in on improving that utterly f*****g shite disaster-area of pea-brained user-hostiliity that is the GIMP's user interface!

    Aaaand deep breath. Ahem. Sorry about the bad language there, but I do find that UI quite vexing.

  67. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Amazed

    I'm really amazed they forked only because of the name. Amazed ...

    If even the open source world is collapsing under total and irremediable stupidity in the name of politically correctness, then humanity is a couple of decades being wiped out.

    1. Jou (Mxyzptlk)

      Re: Amazed

      Like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions#/media/File:Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg

  68. DBarber

    Since Agreement is Impossible, Why Not Name It Yourself

    While this is so far down the chain that it will never be seen,

    until I run for public office and all of my old posts are dredged up to destroy me,

    since it is clearly impossible to come up with any name to satisfy a plurality, let alone a majority,

    may I suggest that,

    the first invocation up pops a text box simply asking: What Do You Want to Call Me?

    Type in your desired identifier and all GIMP is replaced by your new name.

    After that it can be an option on the Help menu to change program name.

    What could possibly be better?

    (And no, I didn't have the time or energy to read all 177 posts and counting to see who else came up with this before me)

  69. ravenstar68

    The scary face of the future is here?

    I’m minded to suggest that the people in the Reddit thread be asked to read Fahrenheit 451.

    In the book firemen no longer put out fires, but instead burn books, as over time more and more minority groups found certain things offensive. The thing is it’s not just books.

    I’m minded of the Black Eyed Peas’ song’ Lets Get it Started. This was originally released as Let’s Get Retarded, and in the opening lyrics were the words “in this context, we mean no disrespect.” The title and lyrics was changed when the song was released as a single to no doubt avoid causing offence.

    Do we really want to go down that road.

    1. sabroni Silver badge

      Re: as over time more and more minority groups found certain things offensive

      No, it doesn't. Link me to the bit in the book where it says that.

  70. Solarflare
    Joke

    Couldn't they just have gotten around this by saying "Oh, it's pronounced 'JIMP'"?

    1. DuncanLarge Silver badge

      I love correcting people who miss-pronounce GIF.

      I start talking about the Jraphics Interchange Format and then keep reffering to Jraphics designers and sometimes I say "Hey look at the tacky jraphics he uploaded onto our site, get him on the phone and I'll tell him what jraphics quality we expect".

      1. Charles 9 Silver badge

        I'm surprised people didn't think you were referring to a certain long-necked mammal. And for the former, maybe they were confusing it with a brand of peanut butter...

  71. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Glimpse

    Sounds like some kind of voyeuristic p0rn brand...

    ...perhaps

  72. Tuppenced

    Has anyone asked to rename Trump?

    Its a long thread and I may have missed it?

    1. fandom

      Re: Has anyone asked to rename Trump?

      Why?

      I always thought the current snooker world champion looked like a nice fellow.

  73. DrXym Silver badge

    Fork it for better reasons than this

    GIMP needs to be forked because it is moribund, stuck in development hell. It needs a kick up the arse to get it going again, to make it a tier #1 image editing tool with a particular focus on improving speed and usability. The name of the tool is the least of its problems.

    1. cornetman Bronze badge

      Re: Fork it for better reasons than this

      I dunno if that's entirely true.

      They just recently came out with a massively different release with a shitload of additional functionality.

      IIRC they are also planning a Blender-style GUI revamp.

      Like a lot of free software projects, there are an awful lot more complainers than there are programmers willing to put some effort into the improvement of it. Developing a system like GIMP or Blender takes a huge amount of time and sacrifice.

  74. DuncanLarge Silver badge

    Drinking my tea, I cough and splutter

    Please tell me this is a late April fools joke?

    However, I suppose this is a good example of the power and freedom given to everyone, users and developers, by Free Software such as this. I think the reason to fork is ridiculous, but I defend and applaud having the right to do so.

  75. Mage Silver badge
    Gimp

    Indeed

    Most people think of gimp suit.

    It's a stupid name and was stupid even before the sex reference thing became popular.

    The definition of gimp as disabled is older than the package.

    The OED (Pocket 4th Edition 1942) has that it's a silk covered - wire core composite, or a fishing line using silk bound with wire or a coarse thread in lace making.

    I'm not against acronyms, but: (1) They WILL get pronounced, (2) Do look up the word in decent British and American dictionaries as well as online.

  76. fandom

    English

    Is the Gimp used more in places where english isn't the language of the natives?

    Do said natives get retless because of it?

  77. Manolo
    WTF?

    Soon...

    English will become a very easy language to learn, once all the words that might offend someone, somewehere, at some time in some situation have been removed from it.

    Pig: insulting to Muslims and policemen.

    Copper: insulting to policemen.

    Dog: insulting to Muslims.

    Bird: insulting to women.

    Crack: dirty word.

    Dick: you shall henceforth be known as Richard.

    Belgium: the most unspeakably rude word there is.

    I have to agree with the FAQ: "we feel that in the long run, sterilization of language will do more harm than good."

    The Dutch author Harry Mulish once wrote: "some people read like hoovers, they manage to get dirt out of everything".

  78. The Central Scrutinizer

    I never really liked the name because it just sounded weird. A real fork that addresses the UI and usability issues would be great. Oh, and one that doesn't take 10 years to complete.

    1. kloczek the iOS6 user

      So simple don't use it.

  79. Jou (Mxyzptlk)

    You only take a Glimpse at how it works

    and run away screaming...

    Should search for a better new name.

  80. kloczek the iOS6 user

    Instead wasting time on porting to Qt and use rust someone should help on porting GIMP to python 3.x and Gtk 3.x or 4.x

    IMO Python plugin should be moved out of main tree (usability of that plugin is quite limited).

  81. Spanners Silver badge
    FAIL

    So...

    Because a certain bunch of Yahoos in the USA misuse the word in a way that particularly particularly advertises their stupidity, I am expected to stop using the name for something and let someone pick a new one for it? Not acceptable.

    All this will do is make more people aware of the word "gimp" and increase its use as an insult.

  82. Old Lady

    I am probably older than most if not all of you posting on here. I have known & used the word gimp since childhood. It was used to describe someone who had a slight limp “ He has been left with a bit of a gimp”. Usually the person had been injured in an accident or I suspect it was used.to describe injuries sustained in the war. Yes people were called Gimpy but it was meant as more of an endearment, never an insult. Now I understand like a lot of pet names it is used as a torment or an insult by morons that have nothing better to do so perhaps it is time to change it or is it. Perhaps the answer is to ask these cowardly bullies “Why are you calling me a computer program”

    1. stuartnz

      " I have known & used the word gimp since childhood. It was used to describe someone who had a slight limp “ He has been left with a bit of a gimp”. "

      Interesting. I too have used the word (noun and adjective) since childhood, as self-descriptors, but the usage "he has been left with a bit of a gimp" is new to me - I would be more likely to say "he's a bit of a gimp, has a bit a bit of a limp". I've also been interested to see how strongly the word is associated with US English, since my own NZE-based idiolect is far removed from US English, yet I've been using "gimp" since the 70s.

  83. Grimster
    Trollface

    Pronounced Jimp not Gimp

    Just to reignite the Gif/Jif argument again.

    1. THAT_guy_

      Re: Pronounced Jimp not Gimp

      LOL!

  84. BGatez Bronze badge
  85. Peconet57
    Linux

    No matter what.

    No matter what you say OR do, someone will be offended even IF you are saying something nice and sweet.

    1. Charles 9 Silver badge

      Re: No matter what.

      True story. Once had someone get in my face one day for calling him, "Sir." He almost shouted at me, "Do I look like a SIR?" When I responded, "Yes, you DO look like a SIR...SIR, and I'm under orders to call people SIR...SIR," he grumbled and walked away. Seems some people hear "sir" and think, "MAS-sir."

      Often get a response from "Good <time>!" of, "What's so *&%(# good about it?!" or, "It ain't morning yet! I haven't been to bed!" or "The sun ain't up yet!"

      There's just no pleasing some people.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: No matter what.

        I know quite a few retired non-coms with many years of service who bristle at being called "Sir". Seems that that honorific is reserved for officers. The response is usually along the lines of "Don't call me Sir! I work for a living!". They are serious. I can respect that.

        Perspective. It's a real thing.

        1. Charles 9 Silver badge

          Re: No matter what.

          Then ask them, "Then how may we address you respectably, given the absence of an honorific is considered itself DIShonorable?"

          At least in the US, where knights and nobility never existed, "Sir" is considered the generic honorific for respectably addressing an unknown gentleman. Thus the aforementioned greeting protocol. "Miss" is used for young ladies and "Ma'am" or "Madam" for older women.

  86. lord_rob

    Fork Linux !

    The name "Linux" is so bad, any name change suggestion ?

    1. fraunthall

      Re: Fork Linux !

      How about Klinux?

  87. nickj2019