back to article We will hack back if you tamper with our shiz, NATO declares to world's black hats

NATO's secretary-general has once again declared that members of the alliance will respond with force to cyber-attacks, in line with Article 5 of its founding treaty. Jens Stoltenberg, the North American and western/northern Europe alliance's main man, wrote in the latest issue of Prospect magazine that "an attack against one …

  1. ShortLegs

    And if it is anything like the NATO response in Bosnia, and the Allied Rapid Reaction Farce, er, Force... NATO's 0-day offenisve capabilliites will be last years' patches exploits.

  2. RichardBarrell

    I'm a tad confused.

    Everyone, everywhere, is already hacking everything all of the time.

    Are they planning to backdate all the declarations of war?

    1. GnuTzu Silver badge

      Well, what's the death toll? How may people died from power failures and/or traffic-light outages?

      Yeah, people are stealing IP and breaking into banks and data stores left and right. But, war is when the death tool exceeds that of, well, certain levels of terrorism.

      I'm sure there are other perspectives on the topic, and it seems to be implied here that the stopping of trams is just not life threatening enough. Ultimately, the threshold will be a matter of damage assessment/accounting. I'm still waiting to hear something concrete on whether anybody has yet actually nailed this down, but it will eventually become a thing in the not too distant future.

      Of course, if you want to step into the world of conspiracy theories, when this can be used to scare people into supporting a war and those in power have some secret agenda that could profit from it, well... fill in your favorite style of conspiracy theory here.

      1. GnuTzu Silver badge

        ... dammit, I managed to correct the spelling of "toll" once. Why did it again come out as "tool" further on. Is there something Freudian in that?

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          It was probably Russian hackers, we should declare war.

          Just out of curiosity, what happens when one NATO member hacks another? Not that any 5eyes count would spy on an ally...

  3. macjules Silver badge

    Now look here chaps ..

    If you stop messing about with this new-fangled technology stuff then we won’t be forced to respond. God forbid we find that the wine cooler in our mess has been “hacked”, although I thought that hacking is what you do with ponies.

    Be good chaps and don’t hack: you really do not want a state visit from Boris Johnson, followed swiftly by one from Jeremy Corbyn and then Nigel Farage. Look at poor Biarritz and that was only Johnson.

    Signed; UK General Staff

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Limpet mines optional

    Hey, if Iran can blow a hole in a Norwegian oil tanker with a limpet mine... and instead of going to war, people blame Trump; then, no biggie... Glad Japan isn't in NATO... how many more oil tankers need to get blown up/ caught on fire/ pirate ship attacked/ seized... glad this isn't around the Somali coast! Pirates we can shoot, it's those nasty Revolutionary Guards who act with impunity!

    1. phuzz Silver badge
      Flame

      Re: Limpet mines optional

      You do (inadvertently I'm sure) make a good point, that attribution is even trickier with hacking than it is with physical attacks.

      Want an excuse to start a war with a completely hypothetical Middle Eastern nation? Just manufacture some 'cyber pearl harbours' and get ready to invade! Much cheaper, and more deniable, than poking holes in boats.

      1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Limpet mines optional

        How would I go about invading a "completely hypothetical" country? Hypothetically speaking, of course.

        I suppose I'd have to tell my troops to maintain a subjunctive mood.

  5. SW10
    FAIL

    Top chef

    Is Donald Trump – or even Macron [the president of France] – going to go to war...

    Did you really think we would confuse the French President with a sportswear manufacturer?

    Or was the explanation lifted from a Trump briefing?

  6. sanmigueelbeer Silver badge

    Y'know what really NATO stands for?

    Talk-the-talk? How about you walk-the-walk?

    Or does NATO stands for "No Action, Talk Only"?

  7. FlamingDeath Bronze badge
    Pirate

    Sounds like a case for...

    Captain Falseflag

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Provide the proof

    Naming Osama bin Laden as responsible for the 9/11 attacks is just mass media brainwashing. To date there is still no factual proof he had any involvement whatsoever. Using him as the scapegoat was rather convenient for the real perpetrators, just as the imaginary US Navy Seals killing and dumping of his body at sea was. In fact he was extremely ill and had actually died many years before in 2001 following dialysis treatment. Covering this up was necessary to keep the public in continued fear of a terrorist mastermind. Did you ever wonder why a journalist found and managed to interview OBL yet the mightiest military in the world could never find him?

    1. Captain Obvious
      FAIL

      Re: Provide the proof

      Boy is the tinfoil hat brigade out today. I bet you believe man has never landed on the moon, that the earth is flat, that Elvis, Kennedy, and Marilyn Monroe are alive and hanging out with bigfoot, HAARP is changing the weather, and chemtrails are killing you.

    2. Mark192

      I'm intrigued...

      You stated:

      "Naming Osama bin Laden as responsible for the 9/11 attacks is just mass media brainwashing. To date there is still no factual proof he had any involvement whatsoever."

      I think I understand you... you sensibly require a high level of independently verifiable proof before you believe something.

      Got it.

      You go on to say:

      "In fact he was extremely ill and had actually died many years before in 2001 following dialysis treatment."

      Is there factual proof of this?

      What makes the proof of this more compelling than the 'proof' of the Navy Seal raid and killing of Osama?

      Genuine questions. I normally dismiss conspiracy stuff but you've a clear desire for factual proof of something before you believe it and I'm keen to hear your views.

      1. finlaythethinker

        Re: I'm intrigued...

        As you probably realize, the US government does lie to suit their objectives, such as trying to justify engaging in unapproved wars in the Middle East. The misery and destruction brought upon the citizens of Iraq, Libya, Syria and others was never approved by Congress or the UN Security Council. When you think about it, the US is responsible for the refugee crisis in Europe, death of millions of innocent civilians as they try to survive in war torn areas and eventually die as they try to escape the carnage they never deserved. By keeping the fear of terrorism high in the minds of the American people, the illegal invasion of sovereign countries is not really questioned by the brainwashed. There is evidence the CIA were with Osama bin Laden (their agent Tim Osman) at his death from kidney failure in 2001, but covered this up so as to keep Americans in increasing fear of terrorist attack masterminded by Osama bin Laden. Many fake videos were made supposedly of bin Laden over the years following his real death, but closer inspection easily shows actors with facial characteristics different from that of the real Osama bin Laden. The propaganda machine keeps people distracted enough through the mass media so "if they see it on TV it must be true". Anyway, here are some links to indicate the Seal Team 6 raid and sea burial of Osama was no doubt just another fantasy:

        https://www.rt.com/news/osama-dead-raid/

        https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/ckd9cc

        https://www.theinvestigative.com/what-happened-to-seal-team-6-who-killed-bin-laden/

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=104&v=IVCX37Jqrlo

        https://www.quora.com/Was-Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-when-the-SEALs-got-to-him?share=1

        https://whowhatwhy.org/2016/05/02/reasons-doubt-official-osama-raid-story-five-years-later/

        https://bluebeerriver.blogspot.com/2012/05/osama-bin-laden-dead-for-eleven-years.html

        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/04/osama-bin-laden-killing-us-story-change

        https://passeh.blogspot.com/2013/11/osama-bin-laden-raid-exposed-as.html

        https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/addiction-in-society/201105/the-bin-laden-story-isnt-true-0

        The official story of Osama bin Laden's death is extremely questionable, much like the official JFK story or the official 9/11 story. Sooner or later the real truths will come out, but unfortunately the psychopaths responsible for those lies will probably be 6 feet under by then.

  9. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    Plonkers R Us ...... Bleat and Bleed Out Putrid Bile Everywhere

    "We have designated cyberspace a domain in which NATO will operate and defend itself as effectively as it does in the air, on land, and at sea. This means we will deter and defend against any aggression towards allies, whether it takes place in the physical world or the virtual one." ..... NATO secretary-general Jens Stoltenberg

    Who the fcuk are the "we" who have no viable practical idea how to combat, let alone conquer, domineering cyberspace pioneers?

    And are they proving themselves quite spectacularly, a thoroughly moronic and oxymoronic we?

    Whenever that is true, is it human nature to taunt and crush such as is designed of a manifest arrogant and catastrophic ignorance, or is that a GOD's work to entertain and employ and enjoy?

    Do such Global Operating Devices rule? Or are you a True Non-Believer and Impotent Doubting Thomas whenever introduced to the notion?

    1. Cliff Thorburn

      Re: Plonkers R Us ...... Bleat and Bleed Out Putrid Bile Everywhere

      I wonder if that involves putting Human Brain Project subjects on Safari, then placing populist playbook spread bets on possible implausibly undeniable great game trails in anything goes authorised augmented reality Live Operational Virtual Environments?

      And thats not even the tip of the Iceberg in this Titanic four funnel f**k up with Brexit firmly off course (or on course as probably intended), nothing to see here (as usual), yet another divide and conquer long bets distraction in the guise of democracy drama.

      1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

        Re: Plonkers R Us ...... Bleat and Bleed Out Putrid Bile Everywhere

        It is at least all of that, CT.

        What/Who do you think is best equipped to deal with and lead such novel situations/solutions nowadays in the age of spooky snooping, status quo governments or anonymous virtualised opposition and revolutionary competition?

        The traditionally very old and mindlessly corruptly accepted, or the brand spanking relatively new and exquisitely EMPowering ?

        Only the one of those is morbidly and terminally foolhardy and would start fights it can never ever win win against almighty friends one does not need to be an overwhelming merciless foe.

        NATO, or any Militarised Gang from anywhere else for that matter, does not have any ESPecialised Jurisdiction nor Practical Physical Power in a Free Phorming CyberSpace of Disruptive Marketable Ideas.

        And it does have one wondering on the fitness for Future Spooky Purpose of State Intelligence Units .......with remote entangling actions performed at a distance that which they have to come to terms with or pay dearly for ‽ .

        1. Cliff Thorburn

          Re: Plonkers R Us ...... Bleat and Bleed Out Putrid Bile Everywhere

          I have to say amFM, that after a decade of psychological torture and abuse, that now channels into a daily stalkfest delivered through Live Operational Virtual Environments that they had many opportunities to just let sleeping dogs lie, and resolve things amicably.

          The problem seemingly is, and always has been that they want their dancing bear, cake, and wanting to eat it too, unfortunately the bear has through too much tome on the hotplate become little more weary of prancing on the same torturous path.

          As for the ‘game’ thats become little more than changing the rules to suit those operating, the validity was lost long ago, a bit like playing monopoly with a cheating relative.

          Then they wonder how we got this far ... or was it not the case that no one ever made it this far?, i’m pretty sure those hallowed words were said.

          As for death threats delivered in a deliberate and daily downstream, ce sera sera, event+reaction=outcome, they never want to accept the truth that the responsibility lies firmly with themselves.

          A bit like expecting a laboratory beagle to cough up for the cigarettes it was forced to smoke.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Plonkers R Us ...... Bleat and Bleed Out Putrid Bile Everywhere

      He must be a one somewhere from North. Used to omit vowels. Should be heard as "wee", perhaps...

  10. Chozo
    Pirate

    Is this about me allegedly cracking the base WiFi password again?

  11. Christoph Silver badge

    If you don't like a neigbouring country, hack computers in that country and then use those to hack computers in the US. NATO will kindly crush them for you.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sure they will lol

    China has the largest amount nation supported hackers, Israel the most insidious, US the sloppiest, NATO will do nothing to any of them.

  13. Maelstorm
    Mushroom

    The Final Solution

    So if a state sponsored actor hacks into another nation and causes wide-spread disruption of critical services like electricity and water supply, why not find where the hackers are, physically, and bomb them out of existence? After all state-sponsored cyber attacks against another country's infrastructure is an act of war.

    1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Re: The Final Solution Flaw

      So if a state sponsored actor hacks into another nation and causes wide-spread disruption of critical services like electricity and water supply, why not find where the hackers are, physically, and bomb them out of existence? After all state-sponsored cyber attacks against another country's infrastructure is an act of war. ...... Maelstrom

      Are all hackers created equal, Maelstrom, or would you be selective and subjective about who you would bomb out of existence, as per your final solution for such agents? Can you identify the targets for eradication in this report ..... https://www.welivesecurity.com/2017/06/16/seven-years-stuxnet-industrial-systems-security-spotlight/

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