back to article Stones, meet glass house: Mind behind Windows 8 GUI disses Windows 10 over leak

Of course there was a lot more going on at Microsoft last week other than accidentally inflicting an untested version of Windows 10 on its loyal army of Insiders. But first... Person responsible for Windows 8 GUI pours scorn bucket on Windows 10 leak Former Windows supremo Steven Sinofsky lobbed a few stones from his glass …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    stop fucking around with the start menu

    Seriously, what is this strange obsession to fuck around the start menu ?

    Every time, it's more ugly, more confusing.

    3 decades ago, on 16 bits computers, it was looking quite nice for the time:

    And now ? Big cubes icons.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: stop fucking around with the start menu

      Fiddling with stuff until it breaks is just a normal day at the office for MS.

      They seem to delight in taking things that work and have few complaints about and decide to 'fix' it.

      Look what they did to Skype etc etc etc.

      Why are tools that remove their madness so popular?

      Will they ever get the message?

      Somehow I doubt it.

      Rather sad really and a waste of all that talent that could be put to better use like getting rid of all those tiles. (personal choice that one).

      1. Zippy´s Sausage Factory

        Re: stop fucking around with the start menu

        Fiddling with stuff until it breaks is just a normal day at the office for MS.

        Is it ever. How about the eldritch horror that is the "redesign" they've just inflicted on Outlook? On the bonus side you get a smaller ribbon that is sort-of like a toolbar, but not, so maybe it's not all evil.

        I wouldn't mind them making one change to Cortana, though - a "completely remove Cortana and delete every trace of it from my system" button.

      2. Mephistro Silver badge

        Re: stop fucking around with the start menu

        'They seem to delight in taking things that work and have few complaints about and decide to 'fix' it.'

        In their eyes that compensates several bugs that have been in Office since Office Fucking 97, and remain strong and healthy today. E.g. .csv import functions when the ASCII characters page is not the one used in English.

      3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: stop fucking around with the start menu

        "Fiddling with stuff until it breaks is just a normal day at the office for MS."

        And continuing to fiddle with it after it's broken is a normal next day at the office and not just for MS UI designers. I think it's a requirement to maintain their street creds with their fellows.

      4. CountCadaver

        Re: stop fucking around with the start menu

        Get rid of Skype, give me back MSN messenger, I lost contact with a lot of people when they killed that off :/

        Sidenote, Workbench was a great OS

    2. quxinot Silver badge

      Re: stop fucking around with the start menu

      No, they should absolutely make changes to it (the start menu)--it's fairly easy to override and put in something that undoes their efforts.

      Of course, they could impress the hell out of everyone by simply writing in some flexibility so that the user has choices about what it looks like and how it works.... Nope, that won't be happening. This isn't about getting it right and leaving it alone, it's about making silly minor tweaks to justify one's own existence.

    3. Piro

      Re: stop fucking around with the start menu

      I'd argue that the last good thing that happened to the start menu was the introduction of a search box, that could instantly launch programmes from the start menu just by typing.

      That worked in Vista and 7, but in 8 and 10, they managed to ruin it, so most of the time it doesn't even find stuff in the start menu, and takes forever if it ever does.

      1. 0laf Silver badge

        Re: stop fucking around with the start menu

        That's because they changed the local pc search to an internet search to try to gain some revenue from it.

        Why show you your own app for editing photographs when they can show you some adverts for similar unneeded products and drive 0.001c from each search.

    4. TechnicalBen Silver badge

      Re: stop

      Or messing around with Twitter, Reddit, or the countless other sites wrecked. XD

    5. Jamie Jones Silver badge

      Re: stop fucking around with the start menu

      Not just MS.. It seems to be the general trend to dumb-down and crap-up user interfaces these days.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: stop fucking around with the start menu

      Sorry, those Amiga screenshots show something really outdated and no better than Windows 3.1.

      Anyway Sinofsky may have a point - its "tiles" were far better designed than that strange 10 UI is - just he was totally wrong when he decided to apply them to the desktop UI removing the Start Menu.

      They should have never gone beyond the "tablet" mode.

    7. Dave K Silver badge

      Re: stop fucking around with the start menu

      To be honest, I think they should fuck about with the start menu - at least once more anyway. The current Windows 10 one is rubbish. On my personal Win 10 test machine, it has been replaced with OpenShell, but I have to suffer the Windows 10 default menu on my work laptop.

      Thing is, will MS do a proper job for once of making a simple, clean and functional start menu? Or will we get another ugly and unfriendly abomination. Sadly, my money is on the latter...

    8. JohnFen Silver badge

      Re: stop fucking around with the start menu

      Microsoft has already totally ruined it, and I use a replacement instead. This means as far as I'm concerned, Microsoft can do anything they like to their version -- I won't be using it anyway.

    9. bombastic bob Silver badge

      Re: stop fucking around with the start menu

      Ya know, they had it right in windows 2000, and to some extent in XP. In Windows 7 they sorted by default but you could turn that OFF and put things in THE ORDER _YOU_ want!

      Win-10-nic, always alphabtized, tiled, prioritized in TILE SIZE by MS's whim.

      I think they should roll back a couple o' decades, to a time when they weren't ALL FORNICATED UP.

      1. CountCadaver

        Re: stop fucking around with the start menu

        give me win2k with modern driver support, no crap no cruft and I could leave it running for years on end and it never broke.

        Unlike now where every reboot is a game of roulette to see whats decided not to work today, and updates are postponed indefinetely as everyone breaks something else in new ways....

    10. DiViDeD Silver badge

      Re: stop fucking around with the start menu

      Not just the start menu. The notebook supplied to me at my last contact with Sydney Uni had the following legend displayed prominently on the lock screen:

      To unlock your device, hold down the volume and power buttons together for a few seconds.

      Remarkably stable procedure. Switchrd the bugger off every time.

  2. revenant Silver badge

    "...bringing the File Explorer shell kicking and screaming into the modern era of search."

    Oh joy.

    So now we can look forward to Search ignoring our attempts to be specific about what we want to find, in order to throw up things that it thinks we should be looking for?

    1. LDS Silver badge

      "with the searching occurring as the user types"

      And are those keystrokes going to be private, or they will be sent to Redmond "to improve the search experience"?

    2. Esme

      Re: "...bringing the File Explorer shell kicking and screaming into the modern era of search."

      CLIPPY LIVES!!!! Yaay! (mwahahahah)

  3. tiggity Silver badge

    "Er, except it does, as anyone who has experienced the lurch in interface and functionality between, say, Windows and iOS would agree."

    I must say Office is usually better (IMHO) (as ever depends on versions you are comparing) on iOS, as the interface tends to be simpler and less "ribbony" than windows (and so far more user friendly for the average ("non power") user who CBA to learn a new GUI for every release and only wants to do a few basic operations in their spreadsheet or word document)

  4. Big_Boomer Bronze badge


    The oversized tiles are so that the peepuls can click on a big shiny pretty. Now I have no problem with a custom interface for those with restricted vision, but do they really have to inflict this crap on everyone? If anyone out there hasn't heard of Classic Shell, now is your chance to get back your favourite menu and ditch the awful kak that MS foists upon us. The Office Ribbon is still crap, even in the latest versions. It steals so much screen real-estate and offers no additional functionality. I usually disable it and just use the menus, but then I've been doing that since Office XP.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Tuned Linux kernel integrated with Windows

    With the Linux kernel being a GPL poster child, and the GPL being a viral license as MS have pointed out many times themselves, does that mean MS will now be Open Sourcing the rest of windows?

    Are are they going to use some mealy-mouthed wording to not comply, but tell everyone they're honouring the license?

    1. JohnFen Silver badge

      Re: Tuned Linux kernel integrated with Windows

      "does that mean MS will now be Open Sourcing the rest of windows?"

      The GPL doesn't require them to do that, so why would they?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Tuned Linux kernel integrated with Windows

        > The GPL doesn't require them to do that, so why would they?

        So, the GPL isn't viral then?

        1. JohnFen Silver badge

          Re: Tuned Linux kernel integrated with Windows

          The GPL is viral in the sense that if you modify GPL code, then the modified code must also be released under the GPL.

          However, there is nothing about the GPL that says that the code that uses it must also be GPL'd. You can use a GPL'd library in your closed-source project, for instance, without having to put your entire project under GPL. The requirement is that any changes you make to the library itself are also GPL'd.

  6. herman Silver badge

    It is actually good when MS plays with the start menu, since that prevents them from breaking more important things.

    1. simonlb

      No, they still keep breaking shit. Please pay more attention. Thank you.

  7. Dedobot

    Rounded or straight icon's corners-dilemma torturing my poor soul when I need to choose an OS for my duties.

  8. Fuzz

    file search

    Forget finding results as you type, start with the basics like switching to the details view when there are more than 20 results. Or not restarting a completed search when you change the order of results.

    1. JohnFen Silver badge

      Re: file search

      Or the even more basic basics of making the search actually find stuff.

  9. Psmo Bronze badge

    Temp Office

    As for the change, we'd suggest something like "Orifice Online", or "are we too cheap to just have the proper Office apps?"

    Office Where-did-the-wifi-go

    Office Shit-who-reset-the-router

    Always-on Office (lies in advertising)

    Office 359 (truth in advertising!)

    Can't we just have Office (soon to be heard in offices : "<Can't>'s offline again")

    Online Office ConnectionLost (putting the "Off" into Office)

    Nevermind-there's-always-LibreOffice (marketing campaign "grasp the NETAL" ?)

    1. CountCadaver

      Re: Temp Office

      I get stuff done in Libreoffice, MS office on the other hand, when I'm forced to use it, I spend more time trying to figure where in hades MS have hidden something that it becomes an infuriating waste of time. You can tell even they know it, when they give you a search box to locate stuff.......

  10. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge


    its time to get out the crystal ball for this linux on windows thing.............

    And I can forsee..... coming soon to Windows, new backwards compatability system for all your classic M$ software, just download the win classic kernel and all your classic office applications will run perfectly, but to enjoy and enpower your employees , choose the new office for linux windows, all the security of linux as delivered by m$

    Then again..... this could be a dream for some..... but a nightmare for others!!

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge

      Re: Hmmmmmm

      THey could "get it right" by doing a WINDOWS SUBSYSTEM FOR LINUX - sorta like what they did for OSX a while back...

      In other words, if I could GET A LICENSE FOR A WINE ALTERNATIVE coming from Microsoft, which ran 32-bit AND 64-bit applications properly, was LICENSED FOR USING SHARED LIBS, and worked WITH DIRECTX on Linux, then I'd SPEND MONEY to buy that. Seriously.

      Just make sure it ALSO works on FreeBSD, K Microsoft?

      1. CountCadaver

        Re: Hmmmmmm

        Give me something that could run every windows app on linux out of the box, no tweaking required and I'd pay for it quite happily, (I game and many of my games do not like wine, plus the other stuff that still doesn't play too well with wine and frankly I can't be bothered mucking about trying to get it working, I just want it to "just work")

        Heck if Mac let you just buy the software and tweaked it so would run on a bigger range of hardware I'd give that a go as win 10 has annoyed me so much recently.

  11. J J Carter Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    I'd like a skeuomorphic Start Menu like, you know, a menu. So it opens with apps of the day & Microsoft specials, then unfolds to your 'mains' of Office 365 with side apps of Project and Visio. At the end is 'naughty but nice' afters, such as links to SFW nudie pics.

    1. This post has been deleted by a moderator

  12. J. Cook Silver badge

    Did they fix the “feature” where it takes 20 minutes to move a folder into a parent folder, which normally take .25ms on the command line?

  13. Kiwi Silver badge


    Skype, what was that again?

    Oh yeah, something that used to be really useful. Then MS got it, and applied 2 of the 3 Es. Embrace and then Extinguish. They skipped over "Extend', instead opting to start culling functionality from the outset.

    I have Viber on my machines now. A little harder to get going at first when I started (needed a smart phone which I didn't have), but I now have it on tablets and computers and have friends moving to it as well.

    Bye bye Skype, you will be OHLOOKNEWTOY!

  14. lvm

    Callingl windows GUI creator a MIND??? You've got some nerve, vulture.

  15. 0laf Silver badge

    What is this with naming different things with the same name? Eve with enterprise stuff.

    I know one organsation that went through months of confusion over a product called SCP (part of 365). One version was £250k a year another was £500k a year. Neither MS or their own resellers seemed to know which was which. Eventually they discovered that SCP (250k) could be bought on its own or as part of a larger pack of services, also called SCP (but £500k).

    I've used the acronym here but the full name was exactly the same not just the TLA.

    At no point has MS ever admitted that this is confusing or an issue.

    And I'm sure non of our dumb-as-a-rock employees will have any issues telling the difference in features between two different products both called 'Office'. I'm sure therte will be no issues at all when they phone the desk shouting about missing features in 'Office'.

    1. chuBb.

      Any of the system centre products is a nightmare

      As for dumb as rocks employees, pre empt and update hell desk script.

      "Did you click the blue w on the desktop, or the program you use for Facebook when your phone battery is flat.. "

  16. Pirate Dave Silver badge

    As such, the company admits it might call it "Office for the web", or perhaps "...on the web", or maybe " a browser".

    Those are stupid names. They should just tack an "e" on the front of it and call it "eOffice" to differentiate it from regular Office. Then it would have a modern, cutting edge name.

  17. JLV Silver badge

    The captain of the Titanic criticizing the seamanship of Exxon Valdez’ skipper.

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