back to article SQL Server 2008 finally shuffles into the home for retired relational databases

Microsoft SQL Server 2008 hold-outs took their first, tentative steps into an unsupported future today as the Windows giant finally pulled the plug on support for the venerable relational database. Come, hold hands, bid a fond farewell to an old friend, and sing songs of T-SQL, encryption and a seemingly never-ending …

  1. JohnFen Silver badge

    And yet...

    Where I work, SQL Server 2008 is one of the databases that we will continue to support for the foreseeable future, as it is still very popular with our enterprise customers.

  2. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    Yeah nice...

    Yeah nice... they're going to continue to come out with security updates but not make them available to their customers (unless they move to Azure).

    Of course, if you move your current workload to Azure, you'll get these 3 years of free security udpates... at which point, they'll probably say you cannot run SQL Server 2008 on there AT ALL, and you'll have to move your workload BACK onto your own systems (which are then missing those 3 years of patches.) I mean, they're assuming you will by then have updated your stuff to work with newer SQL Server, then decide to keep it in Azure...

    1. Huw D Silver badge

      Re: Yeah nice...

      I was at an event run by Ed Baker about Server 2019 migration earlier this year. The Shift to Azure thing also applies to Server 2008/20008 R2. MS's plan does give you 3 years to work out how to shift legacy systems to newer infrastructure.

      So, AFAIAA, the assumption is also partly that you could figure out how to keep it on site.

    2. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: Yeah nice...

      It's not tricky to see why it's much easier for Microsoft to continue to develop patches for SQL 2008 in Azure, where they have a single environment that's fully under their control. As opposed to writing and testing patches that have to work on XP, Vista, 2003, 2008 and 2008 R2, on both x86 and 64 bit systems (and Itanium).

      (In a similar way that it's much easier for Apple to write OSX when they control all the hardware it will run on, compared to Windows which is expected to run on basically anything x86).

      Yes of course this is a money grab, they're a for-profit company, what else are you expecting? However there are sound engineering reasons behind it.

      1. JohnFen Silver badge

        Re: Yeah nice...

        "However there are sound engineering reasons behind it."

        I don't think what you've described is a "sound engineering reason". It's orthogonal to the quality of engineering. It's really a business decision that reduces cost and increases revenue, nothing more.

  3. Benson's Cycle

    I think you mean

    Other very old features like DATE and TIME finally made it into SQL Server 2008.

    1. theblackhand
      Trollface

      Re: I think you mean

      Pffftttt....relying on system provided data and time functions.

      They're not even that efficient...storing all four digits for the year when you can get away with just two and it's not as if anyone changes DST or removes it completely or.......

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: I think you mean

        > when you can get away with just two...

        There were (pre-Y2K) legacy mainframe programmes where they used one digit, storing it as a BCD...

  4. I.Geller Bronze badge

    SQL database is not a database everybody want! At all! And certainly not a relational database everybody seek for! Indeed, all records in SQL are pre-prepared, i.e. sorted manually, the uniqueness is absent, relations between entries are established manually. Isn't that a shame? I smell sulfur... the darkest middle ages...

    AI relational blockchain database is radically different! Everything is done automatically, all records are automatically annotated with texts, the blockchain hierarchy is automatically built and all records are automatically sorted. For example, all text entries are automatically annotated with dictionary definitions (which makes them all absolutely unique), and numbers, symbols, images are annotated with text. Isn't that the miracle you so long were waited for? You may order one right now!

    1. Huw D Silver badge

      So for all the Industry-specific apps that use SQL or SQLesque backends, which side of not in the next 5 years are my clients able to buy now?

      1. I.Geller Bronze badge

        Yes, you can forget about SQL as a bad dream. You can buy AI database instead.

        1. Benson's Cycle

          And,assuming this "AI" database exists, it will just sit on a virtual shelf because nobody in the company will have a clue how to configure, maintain and use it.

          SQL has its disadvantages when it comes to fuzzy indexing and the like, but it works, and a lot of people know it.

          1. I.Geller Bronze badge

            Try Google? Is it hard? You tried my first patent on AI (PA Advisors v Google).

            My new are as simple, the only thing you have to do is turn on your computer, that's it.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              I turned on my computer and opened a Google search, and I'm still a little unsure of how to extract a membership email list of people who haven't paid their subscriptions so I can send them reminders.

              Mailchimp, 5 minute job.

        2. CliveS
          WTF?

          Ilya, you've been touting this line around various forums for years now. I remember you claiming that Amazon, Google, Ebay, Oracle, etc, were obsolete and will soon be out of business years ago. Why don't you build this excellent product that you keep eulogising about, and then see who comes knocking to make you rich beyond the dreams of avarice?

    2. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

      Re: You may order one right now!

      With luck Tom Waits will add this as a verse in "Step Right Up".

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: You may order one right now!

        A suit somewhere in a boardroom would probably believe I.Geller too. The suit would be suckered right in and then lumber the IT team with the problem.

        If it's just a database you want and you are with a clean sheet, no legacy, then you probably don't want SQL Server because Postgres or something will do most jobs well enough without costing you any money or committing you to a platform (yes I know there is a linux SQL Server RDBMS).

        It's all the non RDBMS add ons and extra bits adorning SQL Server that sustain it in the market.

        1. I.Geller Bronze badge

          Re: You may order one right now!

          Listen! This whole AI story has its roots in the replacing n-gram parsing with AI-parsing. There is a sentence:

          - Alice and Bob like strawberries.

          N-gram parsing delivers only one phrase:

          -- Alice and Bob like strawberries.

          AI parsing gets two phrases:

          -- Alice likes strawberries.

          -- Bob likes strawberries.

          That's the only difference between SQL and Artificial Intelligence technologies. Nothing else.

          1. IGotOut

            Re: You may order one right now!

            Is I.Geller A Man From Mars' shouty little brother?

            They both seem to come from an alternative reality.

    3. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      Roll up, roll up!

      Get your snake-oil here!

      Seriously - I'm no particular fan of one database engine over another, although I do use SQL Server every day, and my employer has been "good" enough to put me through the MS exams on it. This puts me in the position where I am aboslutely qualified to say that literally everything you just wrote is 100% guaranteed horseshit. I mean, you start off by essentially claiming that one of the world's best known RDBMSs isn't an RDBMS. You're not a flat-Earther are you?

    4. Ken 16 Silver badge
      Windows

      You're right. But look at https://db-engines.com/en/ranking and see how many people do want them.

      I began with Oracle over 20 years back, learned about DB2 shortly after and preferred that as doing >80% of what Oracle does for <20% of the effort. SQL Server 2008 was the first edition from MS that made me think it could handle enterprise applications, again doing most of what DB2 does with a lot less effort. Count the number of DBA's per database for each platform if you disagree.

      1. Martin Summers Silver badge

        You're all replying to an AI bot. There's a few of them on the comments section.

        1. GrumpenKraut Silver badge
          Meh

          > You're all replying to an AI bot.

          I am afraid that guy is real. No bot could possibly be that silly.

          1. IGotOut

            'You're all replying to an AI bot."

            Nope, no racist, sexist or homophobic remarks.

  5. I.Geller Bronze badge

    AnzoGraph DB

    There is another database though: Cambridge Semantics' AnzoGraph DB.

    Its basic RDF model consists of the subject-predicate-object triple. So, if there is a triple "Alice loves champagne" AnzoGraph DB does not see these patterns:

    - Alice loves

    - Champagne is loved

    I, however, patented subject-predicate-object triple for AI database, as well as all other kinds of doubles, triples, quadruples, etc.

    That is AnzoGraph DB is not a databases since it loses information and cannot be trusted. However my patented AI databases lose nothing and is completely trustworthy. Plus my finds information in its context and subtexts, while AnzoGraph DB cannot ("That means that we have no way to identify the origin of a particular triple or record when it was asserted. Adding triples into a triple store loses context that is useful for many applications" https://www.cambridgesemantics.com/blog/semantic-university/semantic-web-design-patters/semantic-search-semantic-web-2-2/).

    1. veti Silver badge

      Re: AnzoGraph DB

      If your database architecture is so great, why are you shilling it here? Build something useful with it and blow away the competition. That's how you can make a name for it.

      There are hundreds of industries that rely on databases. Here's an under-served market you can have right now: strata billing. People who buy commodities in bulk, then retail them to a niche or captive market. E.g., an apartment building owner billing their own tenants for electricity and water. There are tens of thousands of buildings like that in the world, and right now most of them are doing their billing in Excel.

      1. I.Geller Bronze badge

        Re: AnzoGraph DB

        Money makes the world go around

        ...the world go around

        ...the world go around

        Money makes the world go around

        It makes the world go 'round.

        No money.

        1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

          Re: AnzoGraph DB

          No money.

          Go on "Dragon's Den" then. Should be good for a laugh.

        2. JohnFen Silver badge

          Re: AnzoGraph DB

          You claim to have a valuable patent on this, though. Surely, if the patent is so valuable, you can earn some money by licensing it out.

        3. veti Silver badge

          Re: AnzoGraph DB

          I just told you how to make money. If you can't do it, then we will draw appropriate conclusions about your technology.

          If you simply choose not to do it, that's another matter. I sympathise, I'm a lazy bastard myself. But then we'll draw another set of conclusions about your technology.

          1. I.Geller Bronze badge

            Re: AnzoGraph DB

            Yes, I have a finished product. But now I have to prove the validity of it. To do this I need a serious test. Have you an idea how much it will cost structuring of, for example, Patent Database of the United States? I know, that's why I sit tight hoping somebody would come and risk a small fortune. Structuring is actually quite expensive pleasure.

            1. JohnFen Silver badge

              Re: AnzoGraph DB

              "now I have to prove the validity of it"

              I don't think that you'll be able to get speculative investment unless you at least have a valid proof-of-concept.

              It's hard to know what you have, though. Your comments are describing an approach that's been around for at least a couple of decades, so I assume that there's more to it than you've stated here.

              1. I.Geller Bronze badge

                Re: AnzoGraph DB

                You probably have not heard of the US patent 6,199,067 and Pa Advisors v Google? Please read?

              2. I.Geller Bronze badge

                Re: AnzoGraph DB

                What exists and is called "AI" is worthless until a trustworthy Patent Search (based on this AI concept) is created. Only it's the litmus paper, the fact that can confirm or deny the validity of this AI mechanism.

                Do not forget that the AI answers questions? And that a Patent Search will allow the most objective assessment of the quality of this AI? The US patent Database is the most researched, the most extensive and accurate database on the planet.

                Without this test SQL remains the only reliable method for storing and searching information.

    2. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      Re: AnzoGraph DB

      Are you the same loony / con-artist who was here last week claiming he'd cracked NLP with his own proprietary 'patented' solution?

      Come on then, I'll bite - let's see some patent numbers and links to the patent registrations.

      Nope? Nothing? Thought not.

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: AnzoGraph DB

        He'll be claiming that his DB bends spoons next... :) :)

        1. Fatman Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: AnzoGraph DB

          <quote>He'll be claiming that his DB bends spoons next... :) :)</quote>

          </chortle>

          In that case, would not his name be U Geller??

          1. I.Geller Bronze badge

            Yes, I do claim that.

            Yes, I do claim that.

            There is a sentence "Alice and Bob walk".

            N-gram parsing produce only one phrase

            - Alice and Bob walk.

            "In the fields of computational linguistics and probability, an n-gram is a CONTINUOUS sequence of N items from a given sample of text or speech".

            My AI-parsing produces three phrases here:

            -- Alice walks

            -- Bob walks

            -- Alice and Bob walk.

            Thus my AI database technology includes SQL n-gram parsing and adds a new fixture.

            1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

              Re: Yes, I do claim that.

              What does your "AI-parsing™" make of the phrase "I saw a man on a hill with a telescope"?

              1. I.Geller Bronze badge

                Re: Yes, I do claim that.

                Read United States Patent 8,447,789?

                I can explain here only basics, general and patented ideas.

          2. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: AnzoGraph DB

            He'll be claiming that his DB bends spoons next... :) :)

            </chortle>

            In that case, would not his name be U Geller??

            You've got it twisted:

            He'll be claiming that his DB straightens spoons - bent by his more famous relation - hence the 'I'.

            [Aside: Interestingly, if I remember my topology 'U' and 'I' are just variations of the same basic line shape.]

          3. Benson's Cycle

            Re: AnzoGraph DB

            I'd just like to point out here that the Russian name "Yuri" can alternatively be spelt "Uri" or even "Iuri" depending on how you want to deal with a letter that has no English equivalent (Ю), so both U and I work.

            They must be one and the same.

            1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

              Re: AnzoGraph DB

              A valid point, but also worth pointing out that Uri Geller is not Russian...

            2. I.Geller Bronze badge

              Re: AnzoGraph DB

              You are right. Sometimes I want to do something crazy, like Jura... For example, to write about noun-pronoun phrases. Is it quite in his spirit?

              I said: "A contextual phrase is a 'predicative definition' characterized by combinations of nouns and other parts of speech such as the verb and adjective (e.g. city-be-in)." For example, a paragraph about the same idle Alice and Bob:

              - Alice and Bob are coming. She enjoys to walk.

              The patterns:

              - Alice is coming - 0.25

              - Bob is coming - 0.25

              - Alice and Bob are coming - 0.5

              - Alice enjoys - 0.25

              - Alice walk - 0.25

              - Alice enjoys to walk - 0.5

              - she enjoys to walk - 0.5

              - she enjoys - 0.25

              - she walks - 0.25.

              - she enjoys to walk -0.25

              The numbers-weights (statistics) indicate the phrases importance - the more weight the more important the phrase. (This is my Differential Linguistics.)

              There is a nouns-names phrase here ("Alice and Bob are coming"), its relatively higher weight (0.5) emphasize its greater importance.

              I strongly believe Microsoft used this strategy structuring the sentence “The city councilmen refused the demonstrators a permit because they [feared/advocated] violence.” This sentence is a part of a paragraph or is surrounded by paragraphs, which have their own synonymous clusters about the city councilmen and the demonstrators. From them Microsoft can conclude what is going on: if the word “feared” is selected, then “they” refers to the city council. If “advocated” is selected, then “they” presumably refers to the demonstrators.

              As the direct result Microsoft has significantly improved the MT-DNN approach to NLU, and finally surpassed the estimate for human performance on the overall average score on GLUE (87.6 vs. 87.1) on June 6, 2019. That happened a few days after I introduced you all to the indefatigable Alice and Bob.

              1. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

                Re: I introduced you all to the indefatigable Alice and Bob.

                Alice and Bob have been used as example names in an I.T. context (RSA encryption) since 1978

                1. I.Geller Bronze badge

                  Re: I introduced you all to the indefatigable Alice and Bob.

                  And? I use whatever I want.

                  SQL uses n-gram parsing, unable to retrieve the above phrases and weights. So - goodbye SQL! Goodbye Larry E, SAP, IBM and 99.(9)% of all IT.

                  1. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

                    Re: And? I use whatever I want.

                    If I were you I wouldn't go so far as to say you "introduced" Alice and Bob.

                    Making such a claim may arguably bring into question other assertions that are being made that are purported to be somehow "original".

                    1. I.Geller Bronze badge

                      Re: And? I use whatever I want.

                      Well, if you insist? Good - I re-introduced Alice and Bob.

                  2. Ken Moorhouse Silver badge

                    Re: SQL uses n-gram parsing, unable to retrieve the above phrases and weights

                    I suggest you read some of Joe Celko's books. He made SQL do things you would never dream of doing in SQL.

                    1. I.Geller Bronze badge

                      Re: SQL uses n-gram parsing, unable to retrieve the above phrases and weights

                      I came from Philosophy of Language and develop Internal Relations theory of Analytic Philosophy. AI-parsing came straight from there and SQL n-gram from External theory.

                      I feel myself quite ready to discuss Moore, Russell and Wittgenstein, as well as Poincare, Bradley, Hegel, Spinoza, Nichola of Cusa and Maimonides, up to St.Paul, John and Ecclesiastes. They are whom I studied, this is my field.

      2. Martin Summers Silver badge

        Re: AnzoGraph DB

        He's one of about 3 AI bots that hang around the comments section.

        1. GrumpenKraut Silver badge

          Re: AnzoGraph DB

          Seriously: aManFromMars is one. But otherwise?

          1. Martin Summers Silver badge

            Re: AnzoGraph DB

            There's another one called Cliff who hangs around with amanfrommars and replies to his comments.

            1. GrumpenKraut Silver badge
              Pint

              Re: AnzoGraph DB

              Thanks. ----->

  6. J J Carter Silver badge
    Boffin

    DBA humour

    SELECT * from Users WHERE Clue > 0

    No results found

  7. I.Geller Bronze badge

    It's great to have facts! They give you emotions, and you give them the facts...

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