back to article Florida man pretending to be police pulls over real police, ends badly, claim cops

A Florida man has been arrested for impersonating a police officer after pulling over an actual police officer, cops have said. Lee County Sheriff's Office in Fort Myers, Florida, said one of its off-duty sheriff's deputies was driving down Interstate 4, which connects Orlando and Tampa, when a black Ford sedan – a Crown …

  1. eionmac

    Is that a serious offence, e.g. automatic jail time?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Is that a serious offence

      I would hope so. You can't allow a situation to develop where a citizen drops a cop in the belief they are a fake because a lot of fakes have gotten away with it.

      Generally any offence which undermines confidence in the legal system - from impersonating a police officer, to perjury, witness and jury tampering etc - should be treated as serious with automatic no-questions-asked jail time. After all, lose that, and you are basically back to medieval anarchy.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Is that a serious offence

        Many states have a rule that you don't have to stop for an unmarked police car and don't use unmarked cars for traffic stops - precisely because the response of some Americans is to shoot first and ask questions later.

        1. Tikimon Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: Is that a serious offence

          "Many states have a rule that you don't have to stop for an unmarked police car and don't use unmarked cars for traffic stops - precisely because the response of some Americans is to shoot first and ask questions later."

          Wrong, you ignorant ass. That's so a woman doesn't have to stop for a possible rapist with a flashing light on his dashboard. She can legally drive to a more public area or a police station before stopping. You'll also never find a police force without unmarked cars for the simple reason that traffic stops are a great moneymaker.

          Back in the 80's some creep was doing just that a few miles from where I lived. Women quit stopping for unmarked cops for months. I'm a little surprised people still try this now that everyone has a mobile phone and can call for help (with location!).

          1. UncleNick

            Re: Is that a serious offence

            > "...the response of some Americans is to shoot first and ask questions later."

            >Wrong, you ignorant ass.

            The Prosecution rests, M'Lud.

            1. Hollerithevo Silver badge

              Re: Is that a serious offence

              If that was the only thing he'd said, you could be snarky. But then he gave a full explanation. Didn't you notice?

          2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: Is that a serious offence

            >That's so a woman doesn't have to stop for a possible rapist

            Depends whether state law makers care more about a women's sexual health or the police union. I suspect that is a strong function of state.

            >You'll also never find a police force without unmarked cars for the simple reason that traffic stops are a great moneymaker.

            Yep, having a line of cars all doing exactly the speed limit behind a marked car car earns them nothing. Here they even go so far as having 'N' plated and customised (lots of stickers, aftermarket body kit etc etc) unmarked cars. On the other hand nobody has guns here, the local police don't even have a homocide unit.

            1. bpfh Silver badge
              Paris Hilton

              Re: Is that a serious offence

              Homocide?

              1. Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse Silver badge

                Homocide?

                Yeah boy, you'd better believe it. Down here in Alabama we're fixin' on gettin' us those Gays one stray bullet at a time.

            2. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

              Re: Is that a serious offence

              (lots of stickers, aftermarket body kit etc etc)

              really? or you just want to believe that. I never seen that on the constant parade of reality shows.

              The police rarely seem to go to the trouble of disguising the unmarked cars by as much ,say, taking their bright hi vis vests off, so pimping the car seems a little unlikely

              1. jake Silver badge

                Re: Is that a serious offence

                " I never seen that on the constant parade of reality shows."

                They just haven't written it into the script yet.

                (What? You think so-called "reality TV" isn't scripted? Shirley the massive case of gratuitous over-production clued you in ... )

          3. Alan Brown Silver badge

            Re: Is that a serious offence

            "You'll also never find a police force without unmarked cars for the simple reason that traffic stops are a great moneymaker"

            It has a lot more to do with being able to spot people doing shit they won't try if they can see a marked car around - and in most cases you'll never know an unmarked car was there.

          4. JLV Silver badge
            Thumb Down

            Re: Is that a serious offence

            >Wrong, you ignorant ass.

            Why the nastiness if the OP is actually correct about the legal situation even if, according to you, wrong about the reason for it?

            You could have said the same thing minus your lil flare up.

          5. sprograms

            Re: Is that a serious offence

            Approx. five years ago a fake cop pulled over a woman on a major highway. He raped and murdered her. The highway ran along a very upscale suburb near Philadelphia, US.

            If the FL creep had found, as he pulled alongside, that the guy was not a guy, but an attractive female, something similar could have happened. The "slow down" verbal warning was a dead give-away that the faker simply hadn't stopped the desired sort of victim.

        2. Mark 85 Silver badge

          Re: Is that a serious offence

          That's part of it. The bigger reason is that some have used the cop car approach to commit other crimes such as rape, assault, etc. Thus, the reasoning for this is it's not just "crimes against women.

      2. Mike 16 Silver badge

        Undermining confidence in the legal system?

        So, pretty much anybody working in the police, courts, legislature, or executive branch has a better than 50% chance of being due for a long-term extensive study of the inside of a detention facility Too bad those would be closed, or more likely the inmates would be running the asylum, as usual.

        Not to minimize the problem of impersonating an officer. Many police are competent and as honest as the next person, and they are put at risk by this crime. But, just as with banks with online systems that seem designed to train us to be phishing victims, a bit of professionalism on the part of all police would not be amiss.

        I am really tired of hearing the usual "A few bad apples.." without the rest of the sentence "..spoil the barrel".

      3. Miss Config
        Happy

        Re: Is that a serious offence

        ................. having a CB Radio ?

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: Is that a serious offence

          All joking aside, CBs are still a useful tool when not operated by useless tools.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Is that a serious offence

        In my community I have seen an older gentleman drive around on a golf cart with "COMMUNITY POLICE" on it. (I do not want to give away too much, but the actual words on it are what the community is known as; I am leaving the actual community name off on purpose.) I have only seen him twice, but the next time I do see him, I will call the real police on him. There are few things worse than a busybody who has nothing to do but meddle in your affairs. The sad fact is the area is not a high crime area. I do know there was a drug dealer in the area, but she died of a heart attack after using her product. That was it. So there is no need for a community watch. You better believe I want all pretend police to taught a lesson, even if it is just to scare them straight.

      5. phuzz Silver badge

        Re: Is that a serious offence

        "where a citizen drops a cop"

        Aren't cops citizens too?

    2. jake Silver badge

      Its up to the induhvidual State.

      Impersonating a police or other law enforcement officer is a misdemeanor under California Penal Code 538d ... What this means in the RealWorld is that if nobody gets hurt and you are caught, a first offense is a slap on the wrist at most. If you are stupid about it[0], you'll see a year in jail and/or a $2,000 fine for each offense.

      You can read California PC 538d for yourself here.

      On the federal side of things, impersonating a federal agent is defined as "falsely pretending or assuming to be an employee or officer acting under the authority of the United States, agency, or department". That'll get you fined up to $1,000 and/or up to 3 years for a first offense. You can wade through chapter 43 of Title 18 if you want the details.

      [0] Yes, I know, that's my opinion, too ...

      1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

        Re: Its up to the induhvidual State.

        bloody hell! a concise accurate answer with citations and sources!

        where the hell am i? , what happended to the internet?

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: Its up to the induhvidual State.

          "what happended to the internet?"

          Stopped clocks & all that. Normal service will return shortly.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Falsely Impersonating an Officer is a Third Degree Felony in Florida and is punishable by up to 5 years in prison, 5 years of probation, and a $5,000 fine. So no, not automatic jail time. I would say that he has got of lightly so far as he is still alive. That's probably because he's white though. (Only marginally sarcastic and very jaded).

      1. gnasher729 Silver badge

        So you are saying that impersonating a black cop carries a higher sentence?

    4. Jove Bronze badge

      Up to five years jail time in Florida.

    5. Robert Moore
      Megaphone

      I have a friend who has, for reason that baffle me, reproduced the car from The Blues Brothers movie in mind numbing detail. In as much as the car in the movie was an ex-police cruiser, he gets stopped and checked out by the REAL cops frequently. It is a good thing he is a fine upstanding citizen because cops take "Impersonating a police officer" extremely seriously. He has been "taken in for questioning" several times, although most of the time it is just a quick check, and usually some admiration from the real cops.

      1. Claptrap314 Bronze badge

        There is the fun kind of crazy and the stupid kind. I'm trying to figure out which this is.

  2. vtcodger Silver badge

    Questions

    1. Was the off duty officer, in fact, speeding?

    2. Was Hastings sober?

    3. Does Hastings get time off his sentence for not being very good at impersonating an officer?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Questions

      >1. Was the off duty officer, in fact, speeding?

      From what experience I've had on driving on the I4, that's almost certainly yes. Pretty much everyone does 20 over the speed limit, including on-duty cops.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Questions

        "From what experience I've had on driving on the I4, that's almost certainly yes. "

        On my drive from Kissimmee to Tampa - I drove at the limit for a bit but everyone was passing me. Tends to be more 80mph not 90mph though.

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Questions

      "3. Does Hastings get time off his sentence for not being very good at impersonating an officer?"

      Judging by the description of the car and colours of the flashing lights, I suspect he knew the law and was attempting to create plausible deniability but once drawn in to conversation by his "victim", fell into the trap of either having to admit to being a private citizen or lie. He chose badly. I would guess that most civilians, on assuming he was a cop, would have slowed down as told and then felt relieved that they "got away with it".

  3. Anonymous South African Coward Silver badge

    We have a serious problem of ne'er-do-wells impersonating cops in South Africa.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Same in the UK... except they are employed by the police themselves (police community support officers (PCSOs) aka. Plastic Plod) or the local council (jumped up <insert name of dept> enforcement officers)... they are generally armed with a never-ending book of tickets that needs to be filled in by the end of the week

      1. cynic56

        Absolute Cr*p! PCSOs are more like social workers. I've never heard of them giving anyone a hard time -EVER, and believe me, I am a very sympathetic audience. Now, if you want to talk about private parking enforcement wardens employed by the council, that's a whole different ball game.

        1. jake Silver badge

          He didn;t say it was an official PCSO, now did he?

          Just an old fart in a golf cart, jurisdiction unknown.

      2. Claverhouse Bronze badge

        I AM The Law

        ... they are generally armed with a never-ending book of tickets that needs to be filled in by the end of the week.

        In America they would be armed with actual firearms, and there'd be no crime.

    2. herman Silver badge

      Well, in SA, you even had some Zuma guy impersonating the President and he got away with it for years...

      1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

        There one over at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue presently

  4. MtK

    Chris Evans

    Reminds me of the time Chris Evans pulled over a police car. The officer forgot he had left his blue lights on.

    1. ICPurvis47 Bronze badge
      Devil

      Re: Chris Evans

      I was stopped once on the M6. I had been attending a breakdown on the hard shoulder, and after replacing the damaged tyre, I was returning to my base. I forgot to turn off the yellow rotating beacon on the roof of the breakdown truck, and was pulled over just a few hundred yards before the off ramp to my destination. The cop threw the book at me, and I ended up at Coleshill Magistrates Court. I pleaded guilty, but under extenuating circumstances, as the beacon was not visible from less than several yards away, as it was located in the centre of the flat roof, and there was no indicator bulb on the switch that controlled it. The Magistrates went into a huddle, and eventually awarded me a £10 fine and one point on my licence. The cop, who had had to spend an entire morning in court, was disgusted by so light a sentence, and showed this disgust by storming out of the court before the Magistrates had risen. I do not know if there were any repercussions to his action, but I was relieved that I got off so lightly.

      1. BrownishMonstr

        Re: Chris Evans

        Some cops are twats. Would have been best just to leave you with a warning.

        My brother got a warning from a copper on his way to work. He stopped at a red light, and just before it was to go green he started to creep his car forward. Copper pulls him over and argues he didn't stop at the light. My brother argues he did stop, so the copper said "well, you went over the line" and asks for ID.

        My brother argues he didn't go over and realised he only has one type of ID on him, which he is reluctant to show. He figures since the officer had asked for the ID he doesn't have a choice but to show it. Once my brother shows his warrant card, since he himself is also a police officer and on the way to the police station, the officer who pulled him over takes the body-cam off and starts acting different. "Oh, I was only going to caution you", to which my brother said "well, I didn't go over the line so there wasn't any reason to caution me anyway".

        So yes, some officers can be knobheads, except to their own.

  5. jake Silver badge

    Summer silly season.

    Similar report from Upland, California on June 19th.

    Known colloquially as "wannbees", these sad losers apparently are on the uptick nationwide ... For whatever reason(s) it seems to run in cycles, so I guess this too shall pass.

    1. 404 Silver badge

      Re: Summer silly season.

      It's all those cheap Crown Vics being dumped by LE departments for the new Chargers & Fords. Every other drug dealer has one... 'hiding in plain sight' lol

    2. Ashentaine

      Re: Summer silly season.

      "Wannbees"? Around this part of the country we call them "whackers". Many of them are kinda sad but actually fairly harmless, just thinking if they get an old cruiser from a police auction and drop an amber/white service lightbar (usually non-working) on top people will mistake them for actual cops and get out of their way on the freeways, but never really taking it beyond that.

      Misguided nitwits like Florida Man and the total dirtbags that are impersonating police officers for malicious reasons are still thankfully rare, for now at least.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: Summer silly season.

        "Florida Man and the Total Dirtbags"

        Let me guess ... That's a Tubes cover band, right?

        1. werdsmith Silver badge

          Re: Summer silly season.

          Simpler version of it here, leave a hi-vis yellow vest/jacket on view in the rear window.

          If you see a car like that then you can safely assume it's nothing to do with police.

  6. chivo243 Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Darwin Candidate? Or Sunnybrook Farm resident?

    If he's not an escaped patient at mental health facility, he has to be a Darwin Candidate. Watch this! Hold my beer...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Darwin Candidate? Or Sunnybrook Farm resident?

      From the fact that he wasn't shot on sight, we can safely assume that he wasn't black.

  7. Simon Harris Silver badge
    Happy

    The Bill

    Living in South West London, back in the day they used to film The Bill a lot around my way - once I woke up to TV floodlights shining through the window while they were filming outside the house.

    When not filming, they'd drive the show's police cars to and from location with 'Police' taped over with black masking tape. When I was still new to the area and didn't know about the filming, my first reaction seeing those was 'that's a piss-poor attempt at an unmarked police car'.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The Bill

      There was an episode of "The Bill" specifically about a pair impersonating police officers.

      It was just after "on the spot" fines had been introduced, and the Great Thickish Public managed to miss all the information about how you NEVER gave money to a police officer.

      The scam in the program was that a couple of "likely 'uns" had bought a couple of uniforms and were stopping motorists and "fining" them for various traffic offences.

      It allowed for a dramatic plot line where the internal investigation "bastards" were called in (because it was originally thought they were real cops) which really did set the cat amongst the pigeons.

      If only I could remember where I put my car keys ....

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: The Bill

        "The scam in the program was that a couple of "likely 'uns" had bought a couple of uniforms and were stopping motorists and "fining" them for various traffic offences."

        I just caught an episode of Autobahn on tv the other day. German Police have credit/debit card machines with them to take payment at the roadside. I wonder if there's an issue with fake police there?

    2. jake Silver badge

      Re: The Bill

      "black masking tape"

      That's pronounced "gaffer tape". Handy stuff. Don't leave home without it.

  8. g00se2
    FAIL

    A technique that has been used by serial killers. The officer was lucky not to get shot. And, he had to call 911!? Almost as if he was just one step up from the wannabee

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      "And, he had to call 911!?"

      I wondered about that too. Surely a Deputy would have his boss and station office numbers in his personal phone?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        calling 911

        Calling 911 will ensure:

        * Immediate response (versus waiting for a non-emergency line to be answered, "his boss" or "the station" to log in to a dispatch system, etc.)

        * Proper accounting of the issue (assuming 911 creates an incident report automatically)

        * Immediate location information (assuming E911 is enabled on the system there)

        * Proper agencies dispatched (the cop in question was a Sheriff's deputy, the incident probably had to be handled by the Highway Patrol)

        * Proper timestamping and recording of the initial complaint.

        1. MonkeyCee Silver badge

          Re: calling 911

          Agree with AC here. By calling an emergency number you are giving consent to various things, such as handing your location over. Calling your boss once your safe, sure. but if you're worried about your safety, calling the emergency services is your best panic button.

          Same for a fire or medical. Sure, tackle it, help people, make your own call. But call the emergency services FIRST, or make damn sure someone is.

          Personally if I ask a cop for their ID and they don't comply, I'll call my equivalent of 911. They might sigh, or be a bit tetchy about it*, but they'll do it. Any time I've been asked questions in a formal capacity (ie I'm not in trouble) they've always started by introducing themselves, showing their ID and giving me their card.

          * there's a local law school, so lots of smart ass students

        2. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

          Re: calling 911

          yeah all those are true, except the first one.

          Theres no way getting in the public queue for attention is quicker than ringing your colleagues personal mobile.

  9. Danny 2 Silver badge

    Fake Pigs (Facon)

    I remember four or five cases of fake cops in Scotland, the most recent in August 2018. Some of them were Walts (Walter Mitty), some scammers, but some were rapists/murderers.

    A healthy distrust for authority is advisable. One woman who was pulled over by a sole fake cop late at night had the common-sense and awareness to ignore him and instead drove to a police station. [Not this case but similar]

    https://www.scotland.police.uk/whats-happening/news/2018/august/warning-over-men-impersonating-officers-in-cowdenbeath

    Sergeant Paul Cochrane said, "The woman did the absolutely right thing in this instance by removing herself from these men and contacting police to report her concerns.

    "I want to stress that if you are stopped by genuine police officers at any time, they will produce identification and explain fully the reason for you being stopped.

    "Members of the public should remain vigilant and should they also be stopped in a similar manner by anyone claiming to be an officer, but not in uniform, or in possession of appropriate ID then leave the area immediately before reporting the matter to police immediately.

    1. Nick Kew Silver badge

      Re: Fake Pigs (Facon)

      "I want to stress that if you are stopped by genuine police officers at any time, they will produce identification and explain fully the reason for you being stopped.

      Which is all very well if you can tell genuine police ID from fake police ID.

      Or even from someone's completely unconnected work badge. Or library card. Or ...

      ... at a glance, and in a situation of some stress.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: Fake Pigs (Facon)

        It's true I wouldn't know a police ID because I've genuinely never seen one in my life apart from on Starsky and Hutch.

  10. Danny 2 Silver badge

    F_the_CIA

    This is unrelated to the article and only tangentially related to my previous comment of distrust authority. It amuses me though so maybe it'll amuse you.

    I was a teenager at an American blue-chip in "Silicon Glen" in the early eighties. I'd designed (with a great deal of help from my mentors) a high end computer board. A high speed relay board on the VMEbus spec. It sold for thousands of pounds, but it was our most basic product. Basically it opened 16 switches at high speed, big deal, but I was proud of it and my name was all over it.

    A few months later I got a call at my desk from the CIA telling me it was breaching US sanctions because it was being exported to Hungary and I'd be arrested if that didn't stop because the relays were restricted technology. Cold war and all that. I called BS, said, "Fuck off and die, you are not the CIA" and slammed the phone down. I was sure it was a prank played by my fellow apprentices using one of their Tucson colleagues.

    A couple of minutes later the same American phoned me up with the same spiel and I responded, "Aye right, do you know Hungary has developed it's own super-computer, why would they possibly be interested in these cheap relays?" I got that info from reading the precursor to this mag, Electronics Weekly or something similar - the BOFH is older than most here know. The CIA guy said, "Don't hang up again, can you give me your managers extension?"

    Turned out it was the CIA.

    Wasn't the worst mistake I made with that board. I did it all, including the CAD, and the CAD component was inverted so the prototype had to have it's relays fitted on the rear side. Plus when I was doing testing it burst on fire, well smoking at least, because I was pumping ten times more current through it than it was designed to take. Faulty multimeter, and I didn't think to use another multimeter because mine had just been calibrated. I burst into a boardroom meeting to warn them my product was dangerous, and it wasn't.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Long story......cops hate impersonators

    To set the scene this story is set in the UK and a very long time ago.

    I knew a guy who sold nothing more dangerous than weed or hash.

    His apartment was above a shop so when you entered the front door there were stairs up to his space.

    Someone leaving had deliberately left the front door open and soon there were guys pretending to be police officers with a handgun (later found to be a starting pistol) and a search warrant (later found to be stolen). They took all the money and drugs and promptly left the building! Apparently this gang had been targeting dealers but no-one had reported it. My "pal" was a man of principal, quite a philosopher and also a Buddhist so he rang the cops to complain. Well it turns out that the police hate anyone impersonating them so they gave my "pal" immunity and protection. I won't reveal the whole story but this snippet is funny. My "pal" became friendly with one of the detectives who would come around his house for a coffee. My "pal" had told him that "Any day that you want to bust me I will have some hash here". So over coffee $name opens his tobacco tin to roll a cigarette but inside is also a lump of hash. The detective says "$name, could you please put the lid back on your tin". LOL

    Anon for obvious reasons

  12. 2+2=5 Silver badge

    Long story......cops hate impersonators (2)

    When you do lots of weekly commuting, you get to hear a few interesting stories from the hotel staff...

    One time the plod had come round to the hotel mid-afternoon to book one of the function rooms for their annual shindig. The receptionist called the events person who was at the other end of the hotel so she asked the receptionist to show plod through to the function room and she'd meet them there. So far so normal but one of the police absentmindedly leaves his radio on the desk, which is now unattended. Inevitably a cleaner comes down looking for the manager, finds no one, and picks up the radio thinking it's one of the hotel's walkie-talkies. Cue amusing conversation where confused cleaner can't understand why the people on the other end of the walkie-talkie keep demanding to know where she is and why they don't know where the reception desk is.

    Apparently a police car arrived very quickly. :-)

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    When do the "Florida Man" jokes start?

    1. jake Silver badge

      Start?

      I hadn't heard they had stopped ...

  14. GBE

    Florida Man is slipping

    I must say that in the ongoing adventures of Florida Man, this was pretty lame.

    No explosives or firearms, no dangerous wildlife, no injuries, nobody had to call an ambulance, the fire department, or even the state conservation officers.

    C'mon Florida Man, you can do better!

  15. antman

    Legging it

    A long time ago we were returning from an evening out when I could hear a siren (it might have been a bell) nearby. A glance in the rear view mirror revealed it to be the car behind as is started to flash the headlamps (no blue lights). I could see from the silhouettes of the driver and passenger that they had long hair, didn't look like cops, and the car wasn't a marked police car. I felt somewhat in fear for our safety so put my foot down and accelerated away. About a mile or so later we ran into a police road block! "why didn't you stop?" said the uniformed officer. I explained my fear of what I thought were villains in the unmarked car and how would I know they were cops. He stepped away, muttered something to his colleagues and after a quick breath test we were on our way. No idea what that was about; perhaps they were looking for a particular face.

  16. Anguilla

    A Policeman's lot is not a happy one: "The Pirates of Penzance" Gilbert & Sullivan.

    I recall, something like 60+ years ago, a UK man who'd fitted up his car with a bell [well I did mention it was a looong time ago] - Belled a car in front as it was driving through Thornton Heath in South London.

    His choice of "prey" wasn't very good - for he'd chosen to "gong" an undercover Police car.

    I don't think it turned out very well for him!!

    Here in Hong Kong, during recent weeks, the "Fuzz" have been accused of failing to display their rank & numbers whilst beating up marchers against the Hong Kong Government's attempt to force extradition laws to fling ALLEGED criminals back to Communist China.

    It was put about by the "Fuzz" that Warrant cards need only be carried by one member of the squad tasked with beating up violent (& not so violent protestors) on the streets.

    Needless to say, I rather chuckled when the protestors surrounded the Police HQ in Wanchai all day and into the early hours of the next day - so it was effectively "sealed off" !!

    I think I can say that any "goodwill" towards this in-Disciplined Service has rather evaporated if one questioned the majority of the Hong Kongers - apart from the Commie Running Dogs that infest HK.

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