back to article Bonkers British MPs rant: 5G signals cause cancer

A group of tinfoil-hatted wackos have held a public meeting to talk about the dangers of “electromagnetic fields” and demand 5G mobile network rollouts are halted. Unfortunately for the Great British Public, those moonhowlers are elected Members of Parliament. In what has to be one of the most surreal Westminster Hall debates …

  1. ArrZarr Silver badge
    Unhappy

    I...What?

    1. Semtex451 Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Yes quite.

      But on the basis that our elected representatives reflect society at large, this should surprise no one.

      1. Fungus Bob Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: our elected representatives reflect society at large

        That's odd. In most countries they represent the corporations that bought them...

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge

      I blame lead piping in the Houses of Parliament, there's no other explanation. Well there is, lead piping or industrial quantities of cocaine. Allegedly.

      1. BebopWeBop Silver badge

        maybe they sniff it through custom pipes, cast in lead?

        1. Tigra 07 Silver badge
          Trollface

          RE: BebopWeBop

          Jeremy Corbyn has since issued a statement clarifying that Labour does not blame 4G for the the decline in insects, his friends at Hezbollah have told him it's the fault of the Jews.

      2. BebopWeBop Silver badge

        Not allegedly in many cases.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Lead piping...

        The potential fix for many of our political issues.

        Please note that while milkshakes may stain clothing, the careful application of lead piping should avoid most stains. Excessive use may however result in staining.

        Note: lead piping should be applied carefully to the fingers, knees and, in extreme cases, the heads of politicians.

        1. Cynical Pie

          by Professor Plum in the Library...

      4. JetSetJim Silver badge
        Coat

        Nah, it's because they've been on their phones so much. It's messed with their heads...

      5. jgarbo
        Facepalm

        So the MPs still snort their cocaine through lead piping? That's dangerous.

    3. Warm Braw Silver badge

      There is an official political party

      https://www.saveusnow.org.uk

      They stood in our local elections claiming it was no coincidence tge local authority had started their own funeral business...

      1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

        Re: local authority started their own funeral business

        Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 / Disposal of Dead Bodies:

        It shall be the duty of a local authority to cause to be buried or cremated the body of any person who has died or been found dead in their area, in any case where it appears to the authority that no suitable arrangements for the disposal of the body have been or are being made otherwise than by the authority.

        Presumably they did not like the prices at the local undertakers.

        1. Huw D Silver badge

          Re: local authority started their own funeral business

          In Wales, a lot of the undertakers are Prices...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: There is an official political party

        Wow.

        I've suggested before that while some of our politicians aren't the greatest, look at the alternatives.

        This lot should be carefully distributed amongst villages to ensure they avoid going over their quota of idots...

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: There is an official political party

        Some seriously high levels of crazy on that website...

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Not a phenomenon unique to the UK, unfortunately

      Sadly it's just as bad here in France, villagers trying to get masts beside schools banned (without even taking a moment to realize that the radio waves from a mast don't go straight down where they would be wasted anyway), and local elected officials supporting them. All blamed on the "precautionary principle": don't do anything, it might be bad for us. Then the same people complain about their poor mobile phone coverage. It's worse than the antivaxxers.

      1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

        Re: Not a phenomenon unique to the UK, unfortunately

        A) Kiddy has a cell phone glued to his head transmitting on minimum power because the mast is in the playground.

        B) Kiddy has a cell phone glued to his head transmitting on maximum power because twits won't allow masts within a mile of any school.

        C) Kiddy has a megaphone to shout at her cell phone which has another megaphone attached to shout back.

        1. Martin an gof Silver badge
          Meh

          Re: Not a phenomenon unique to the UK, unfortunately

          You forgot:

          D) Kiddy switches cell phone off and leaves it in their locker, because i) they shouldn't be on the phone in school anyway and ii) it's school policy

          or (in our case)

          E) Kiddy only has a fairly basic 2G or 3G phone on a fairly basic contract and only for making emergency contact because the school has once again forgotten to send a note home saying the rubgy team won't be back in time to meet the bus

          M.

          1. Tomato42 Silver badge

            Re: Not a phenomenon unique to the UK, unfortunately

            D and E would never be the case for parents that blame others for any and all problems with their kids

      2. MiguelC Silver badge

        Re: It's worse than the antivaxxers.

        No. It's not.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: It's worse than the antivaxxers.

          At least anti-vaxxers, on average, result in a stronger population through natural selection.

          And there's an environmental argument for population reduction.

          1. Dwarf Silver badge

            Re: It's worse than the antivaxxers.

            There’s nothing wrong with VMS. Long live the VAX

          2. JetSetJim Silver badge
            Coat

            Re: It's worse than the antivaxxers.

            Yay - go eugenics!

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: It's worse than the antivaxxers.

              Is self selection really eugenics?

              I mean they are being actively encouraged to vaccinate but choose not to...

              1. JetSetJim Silver badge

                Re: It's worse than the antivaxxers.

                Actively not vaccinating doesn't just risk themselves, but also increases the risk to vulnerable people that have a reduced immune system - e.g. those on chemo, or even those rarities that do have allergic reactions to some of the ingredients of the vaccine. This is due to reduced herd immunity. By doing this, the anti-vaxxers are helping to "kill off the genetically weak".

                Bring on compulsory vaccination

                1. Wellyboot Silver badge

                  Re: It's worse than the antivaxxers.

                  First gen anti-vaxxers have obviously had all their jabs, Do we have any second generation campaigners yet?

                  I do hope they all share the same public transport to meetings as an environment saving measure.

                  1. rskurat

                    Re: It's worse than the antivaxxers.

                    exactly the opposite, they all drive 4-tonne SUVs because the safety of their little snowflakes is paramount. Screw you if you're driving a Fiat.

              2. John Robson Silver badge

                Re: It's worse than the antivaxxers.

                As someone who is long term immunosuppressed for health reasons I can almost let the "stronger through natural selection" comment go (though my reproduction is already done, so it won't make much difference here), but the concept that it is only through risk to themselves is nearly as widespread as it is wrong - and does need to be challenged.

                There are various reasons that some people can't take vaccines which aren't necessarily related to them even... my kids can't take live vaccines due to the risk to me (In this case they can get the injected dead flu vaccines instead of the live ones at school).

          3. jgarbo
            Childcatcher

            Re: It's worse than the antivaxxers.

            Apres vous, mon brave. Let your children die first. Natural (stupid) selection.

            1. John Robson Silver badge

              Re: It's worse than the antivaxxers.

              I refer you to: https://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/all/2019/06/27/mps_5g_electrosensitivity_5g_cancer_doom_apocalyse_etc/#c_3814522

      3. Mark 85 Silver badge

        Re: Not a phenomenon unique to the UK, unfortunately

        Not just over across the pond, we have there here in States, also. Everyone of these seems to forget that no one lives forever. Life is a possible human carcinogen. Life also leads to death. Get a grip.

        1. Sgt_Oddball Silver badge
          Devil

          Re: Not a phenomenon unique to the UK, unfortunately

          Nobody gets out alive...

  2. Teiwaz Silver badge

    Maybe they're right to an extent

    Some sort of deleterious brain condition...and this lot seem badly affected.

    Most of the time when you come across a 'end is nigh' placard wearing 'left ear person' on the street, you try to ignore them and cross to the other side of the street where possible, preferably, you call up some kind people to lead them away, but surely Parliament is not where you have them taken (unless we move Parliament to a nice offshore island where they can be ignored/given specialist treatment(either suits)).

    1. James O'Shea

      Re: Maybe they're right to an extent

      "unless we move Parliament to a nice offshore island"

      Hmm, he says, innocently... aren't they already on a nice offshore island from (the rest of) Europe?

      Although if an island offshore from Britain is desired, may I suggest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruinard_Island

      there's no network service of any kind, including basic PSTN, there, so they would be able to rant away and no-one would know. Seems ideal. And it's goode for thieves and outlaws, again making it ideal. The only problem is that the Scots might object.

      1. HorseflySteve

        Re: Maybe they're right to an extent

        Too late, they've cleaned up the anthrax on Gruinard now...

  3. simonb_london

    "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

    Yes.

    You put them in a microwave oven. They cook!

    Sometimes the debunkery is worse than the pseudo-science it is debunking. Of course RF affects living things. In what way and how much just depends on how much power and at what frequency.

    I guess with 5G the issue is how much millimetric RF is safe and at what power since this hasn't been used all that much yet, except for these new airport body scanners and for point-to-point links etc.

    1. phuzz Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

      "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

      Yes of course there is. Many times I've seen my cat deliberately find a cosy spot to curl up in the sunshine.

      Light is a form of electromagnetic radiation, and sunlight is actively harmful to humans (cats generally love it though). After all, more than two thousand people died of skin cancer in the UK in 2016 (src).

      When will our MPs ban this dangerous radiation!?!?!

      1. Captain Scarlet Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

        Yes quick get Mr Burns to implement his sun blocking device pronto!

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

        "Light is a form of electromagnetic radiation, and sunlight is actively harmful to humans (cats generally love it though). After all, more than two thousand people died of skin cancer in the UK in 2016 (src)."

        I would need to see more evidence that this so called sunlight exposure happened within the UK rather than on some excursion to foreign parts.

        And I realise looking out the window today that this is probably the one day of the year that actually proves your point, BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT!!!!!!!!

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

          > sunlight is actively harmful to humans

          This is Wales we are talking about.

          1. Captain Scarlet Silver badge
            Mushroom

            Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

            erm ok for Wales lets see.

            Heat from heating devices such as radiators, they can burn you if the boiler is set to hot and that expells heat radiation.

    2. T. F. M. Reader Silver badge

      Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

      Yes. Migrating birds use the Earth's magnetic field to navigate.

      Ouch... Both sides seem to be rather wobbly on scientific facts. Not in equal measure though...

      1. David Nash Silver badge

        Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

        I don't think that the Earth's magnetic field counts as *electro*magnetic, does it?

        Maybe it does, seeing as E and M forces are aspects of the same EM force,

        But I think the MPs are concerned about RF not EM in general.

        And they are still wrong.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

          "I don't think that the Earth's magnetic field counts as *electro*magnetic, does it?"

          Well actually the earth is one big electromagnet so maybe it does. Admittedly the field is rather constant so any EM waves it transmits are on the weak side.

          1. ibmalone Silver badge

            Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

            If you squint at the correct quantisation magnetic fields are mediated by virtual photons. It's also a magnet spinning at a bit under 12 microhertz, so technically radiating EM at that frequency.

            And generally in relativity, whether fields are magnetic or electric depends on how you're moving relative to them. Both fields can be written in relation to a four-vector potential.

    3. macjules Silver badge

      Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

      Let alone the terrible chemical that both humans and animals alike ingest on a daily basis: dihydrogen monoxide.

      Perhaps we need an urgent debate on the negative effects of dihydrogen monoxide, especially when you consider the dilutionary effect it has upon MP's daily intakes of whiskey?

      1. Annihilator

        Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

        That dihydrogen monoxide you speak of, it's worth pointing out that it contains hydrogen, which as we all know blew up the Hindenberg. And we all know carbon monoxide is very dangerous, yet we're happy to swap the carbon, which we're made of, for deadly hydrogen. Take the healthy part of an already dangerous compound and make it even more dangerous!

        We also add chlorine to it (highly poisonous, and used as a weapon in WW2) and let our children swim in it! Madness!

        1. Stoneshop Silver badge
          Boffin

          Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

          highly poisonous, and used as a weapon in WW2

          Off by 1 error.

          1. Annihilator
            Happy

            Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

            Bollox. Otherwise the rest of my post was entirely accurate :D

          2. Benson's Cycle

            Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

            No he's not, chlorine compounds were used by the Americans in WW2 to kill Japanese and civilians hiding in caves on Pacific Islands.

            Popular with ISIS too because they could obtain it from water treatment plants in areas they took over.

      2. DJO Silver badge

        Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

        Dihydrogen monoxide?

        Quite bad but Hydroxyl Hydride is far worse:

        Hydroxyl radicals are highly reactive and undergo chemical reactions that make them short-lived. When biological systems are exposed to hydroxyl radicals, they can cause damage to cells, including those in humans, where they can react with DNA, lipids, and proteins

        Nasty.

    4. mr_souter_Working

      Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

      the best quote from that was from Tonia Antoniazzi - "We must remember that animals do not use screens, "

      Yes, she actually said that we needed to REMEMBER THAT ANIMALS DO NOT USE SCREENS!!!

      W

      T

      A

      F

      !?

      1. disco_stu

        Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

        It's the chemtrails making us forget that animals do not use screens. :D

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

        They also don't use sunscreen... what about their skin cancer rates

      3. macjules Silver badge

        Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

        Animals also don't floss. We should be concerned about their lack of dentistry.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

        "[...] REMEMBER THAT ANIMALS DO NOT USE SCREENS!!!"

        Animals are apparently happy to use touch screens when given the chance.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: millimetric RF

      That's the question:

      We know that it's not a good idea to put your head in the line of sight of a high power microwave transmitter, so there is certainly good reason for accting in accordance with the precautionary principle, and trying to get a full understanding of the risks of any new technology.

      As far as I am aware, there has been little evidence of any significant risks from current mobile technologies, but 5G will operate at a noticeably higher frequency (shorter wavelength) than previous generations.

      I'm neutral (but also not very well informed) on the matter, but do we know whether the new frequency range is likely to have any new adverse effects?

      There are people who will always panic at the thought of any new and advanced technology indistinguishable from magic, unfortunately, but do we have any easily-digestible research to show that there are no additional risks? (Genuine question: a friend of mine unfortunately follows some rather panicky websites, and I'd like to try to offer factual reassurance.)

  4. Dave 126 Silver badge

    I'm regretting not taking some anti-5G protesters to task the other week. My reason? In so many of the issues they are concerned about, scientific evidence is in their side - be it air pollution or climate change. Therefore 8t is depressing that they reject science in the subject of 5G et al. By rejecting science, they are weakening efforts to fix serious issues.

    1. Fading

      You might need to check.....

      What "scientific evidence" they think is actually on their side for all of the above (air pollution, climate change and EMF radiation causes cancer) - it may differ from the scientific evidence you follow. It is generally accepted that increasing CO2 emission causes warming but the ECS has a wide range which hasn't narrowed in the 30 years of IPCC reporting (which recent papers put at the lower end of the range).

      The "air pollution" issue is significantly less than it was in my youth (thanks to the clean air laws - though may have been partly responsible for more winter deaths - central heating wasn't universal in the UK) - and is greater indoors than even the worst London roads.

      Yet the "scientific evidence" being shouted about on the streets around parliament yesterday is all about catastrophe and doom - the same hysterical overstatement of the science that leads to the 5G EMF causes cancer beliefs.

      1. David Nash Silver badge
        Boffin

        "Scientific" evidence

        Is there any other kind?

        If it's not "scientific", it's not real evidence.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "Scientific" evidence

          "If it's not "scientific", it's not real evidence."

          Unfortunately, I can think of an entire Diety fearing crowd that might like to argue that point....

          1. Stoneshop Silver badge
            Flame

            Re: "Scientific" evidence

            an entire Diety fearing crowd

            At least they're following one with 30% less hellfire and damnation.

            (set inferno to gas mark 2 and gently lob small bits of pumice at tormented)

            1. Sgt_Oddball Silver badge

              Re: "Scientific" evidence

              I've got some rubbers containing pumice. Do those count?

              1. jake Silver badge

                Re: "Scientific" evidence

                "I've got some rubbers containing pumice."

                1) Those are for ink, not pencil.

                2) You just made several of my fellow Yanks wince.

        2. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: "Scientific" evidence

          > If it's not "scientific", it's not real evidence.

          Er no, evidence is not the same thing as proof. Before devising an experiment, one states a hypothesis. How the hypothesis is arrived at - it might be a mere hunch - should be irrelevant since it is the following experiment that matters (or in reality, ideally, the further experiments that establish replicability).

          So, it is natural that there is mere 'evidence', and then there is 'evidence that has been subjected to the scientific method'.

          So, I have * evidence* that some of the 5G protesters are also climate protesters - seeing the same faces in both groups, seeing both Anti 5G and Extinction Rebellion posters in the same house windows etc, but it is true that my evidence is anecdotal. However, it is enough evidence to form a hypothesis that I can then go on to test.

    2. YARR

      You've not being very "scientific" by lumping 5G protesters with other environmental issues.

      Anyway, the scientific evidence is that incidents of brain tumors in the UK have more than doubled in 20 years. As yet no culprit has been identified, but mobile phones are the most obvious lifestyle change that correlates with the scientific evidence.

      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/05/02/mobile-phone-cancer-warning-malignant-brain-tumours-double

      Of course this is irrelevant to the 5G debate which argues that the higher frequency of 5G transmitters is significantly more dangerous to life than earlier generations, supposedly due to resonating with DNA or something. They also argue that past studies of the effects of EM radiation are based on short term exposure risks, not extended exposure over many years. (NB. I have not personally researched any of these claims).

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge
        Facepalm

        If you look for things

        You find them far more often than if you don't. The detections of tumours may have risen, but that doesn't tell you very much about the incidence

        Cancer is the class of disease that is most likely to kill you if nothing else already has. One of the largest lifetime risks of cancer is living a long time!

        Successfully treating cancer makes you considerably more likely to get cancer again - as you didn't die from it the first time!

        To put it another way:

        Long life causes cancer, looking for cancer causes cancer diagnoses, treating cancer causes cancer.

        (Daily Mail, publish that I dare you!)

        There are a huge number of other "lifestyle changes" in the last 20 years ish. We're a lot more sedentary, we eat more food and that food is a different mix, there is a different air pollution mix.

        In general our environment has a lot less of the stuff that we know injures or kills you quickly, yet still contains a lot of stuff that probably injures you slowly. Eg by causing cancers if you're exposed to low levels of some air pollutants for a long time.

      2. Bill Gray

        Cancer causes cellphones

        I'm surprised the obligatory XKCD hasn't come up!

        https://www.xkcd.com/925/

        In looking for this, I found a post claiming that after reviewing XKCD 925, the US Supreme Court refused to hear a lawsuit claiming that cellphones cause cancer (source, behind paywall).

        1. YARR

          Re: Cancer causes cellphones

          The xkcd data compares overall cancer rates in the USA, not brain tumors specifically. Clearly there is a major increasing trend in the detection of all cancers in the USA that predates widescale use of mobile phones.

          If all of the increase in brain tumors in the UK study was due to people living longer, then all the increase should be in the uppermost age groups - the tumor incidence in younger age groups should be the same as in 1995. We don't have the data here, but the wording of the Telegraph article implies the increase in brain tumors specifically affects the young.

          Again, all this relates to existing mobile phone standards 1G-4G which use a different frequency band from 5G, so is incidental to the argument against 5G.

  5. Starace Silver badge
    Alert

    Idiots

    Shall we just turn off the power in Wales and any terrestrial transmitter or satellite coverage too?

    After all that's the natural outcome of their antiscientific arguments.

    Not that we should be surprised by any sort of idiocy from the current Labour crop. The only surprise is they somehow forgot to blame Israel too.

    1. ARGO

      Re: Idiots

      They'd have to turn off the sun too. Oh wait, it's Wales...

    2. Alien8n Silver badge

      Re: Idiots

      Okay, I'll bite...

      Idiocy in Parliament is not limited to Labour, there are plenty of idiots on the other side, one of which is guaranteed to be our next Prime Minister. Although that really is a choice between a bumbling idiot that isn't capable of knowing when he's lying, and a greedy self serving idiot who wants to make more money by privatising everything that isn't nailed down.

      And as for the other part of your analogy, again, have you seen the comments from the other side? And yet hardly anything is ever made of the racism and Islamophobia that emanates from the Tories. In fact it seems it's seen as patriotic to be a racist asshole that demands to send people back to countries they have never lived in because their British Citizenship is seen as suspect because a government department decided to destroy the evidence that proved their parents or grandparents actually do have the right to live in this country. But yes, convince yourself it's Labour that have a problem.

      1. BebopWeBop Silver badge

        Re: Idiots

        There is a barely concealed vein of antisemitism as well, to add to the mix. Johnson as editor ublished a poem in the Spectator which as well as calling for the elimination of the Scots as a verminous race, promoted ghettos, 'the solution' and extermination. They seem to generally have a problem with anyone who is not white and anglo-saxon and Christian. (https://evolvepolitics.com/boris-johnson-published-poem-caling-for-extermination-of-verminous-scottish-race/). And they have (almost) got their filthy paws on the levers of power.

        1. Benson's Cycle

          Re: Idiots

          Oh, not Christian. If there was an actual deity Johnson, McVey, Leadsom, Cash, Bone, Raab, IDS, Rees-Mogg and a number of others would be small smoking holes in the pavement. It is just as well for them the god they claim to support doesn't exist.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Bet they all use smartphones though...

    ...but given how many idiot zombies you see walking around with phones clamped to their ears, they may actually have a point.

    Anon, as I'll probably get roasted by both sides.

    1. steelpillow Silver badge

      Re: Bet they all use smartphones though...

      "given how many idiot zombies you see walking around with phones clamped to their ears"

      No cancer, as the Australian study showed. But is the idiocy cause or effect? I was an electromagnetics engineer for a decade or so, routinely exposed to "DC to daylight", and I can confidently assure you that idiocy was far more prevalent in management than among my colleagues.

      1. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

        Re: Bet they all use smartphones though...

        The Dilbert Principle is a real thing.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Bet they all use smartphones though...

        I work in IT and my boss, also an IT guy gone managerial, routinely unplugs the wi-fi AP over his head because he "doesn't want radiation around him like that". I've tried to reason with him but utterly failed, as expected. So I plug it again when he's not around.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Bet they all use smartphones though...

          Maybe you can both be happy?

          Most enterprise (and some consumer) wifi AP's allow the status LED's to be disabled.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Bet they all use smartphones though...

            Put it inside a ventilated cardboard box. He'll never know.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Bet they all use smartphones though...

            I had a Hell Desk trying to get me to send an engineer to a customer because they had a fault light on a piece of kit. I pointed out that this meant the fault was at the distant site, so suggested he tried checking with them first.

            "I've been doing this job 6 months and it is this end..." "I'll see your 6 months, raise you another 4.5 years and a copy of the circuit diagram". The Hell Desk went over my head to file a complaint and an engineer was dispatched.

            The engineer snipped the lead to the LED and told them to get someone to investigate the distant end.

            Strange, they never phoned back to thank me for my expert fault diagnosis!

        2. Dwarf Silver badge

          Re: Bet they all use smartphones though...

          If it’s exactly over his head, then introduce him to the RF doughnut. There is no power at the centre (due to the hole where the jam goes) - it is a management summary after all !!

          1. J.G.Harston Silver badge

            Re: Bet they all use smartphones though...

            Will people PLEASE /stop/ linking direct to mobile sites, and use the *general* URL so that ***MY**** browser can choose what content to fetch.

            1. Richard 12 Silver badge

              Re: Bet they all use smartphones though...

              Sadly some mobile sites still use distinct URLs instead of using one of the ways for a browser to say what they want.

              Don't blame the messenger, blame the message.

              PS You've got a keyboard, the OP doesn't so it's rather harder for them to fix than the desktop user.

              1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

                Re: Bet they all use smartphones though...

                I always use "desktop" sites when on mobile (how ever much some sites try to fight me)

                For some reason, "designers" seem to think that todays mobile devices are still just capable of WAP.

                And browser sniffing to achieve it just adds the cherry on top of the shitcake.

                The Reg site is one of the few web sites to do it correctly...

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Bet they all use smartphones though...

      "Anon, as I'll probably get roasted by both sides."

      No, just the side where you're holding your phone.

    3. phuzz Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Bet they all use smartphones though...

      I was working at a customer's office, and I was sent to go fix something (Outlook maybe?) on the PC of the marketing manager.

      As I started, I found that the mouse was behaving really strangely, so I picked it up, and taped underneath was a 2p coin. (From the sellotape marks it had clearly been positioned over the sensor at first, and then moved). I removed it, and left the coin by the monitor. Presumably it was there because it was supposedly made of copper?

      Once everything was fixed, I was just waiting for the user to get back, and they eventually turned up, mobile phone glued to their ear. Once they finished their conversation, I pointed out that their mouse wasn't working because of a coin to which the reply was "but you see, I'm allergic to electromagnetic radiation".

      "Well then" I replied, "maybe you should try shutting the curtains".

      I don't think they figured it out by the time I left.

  7. This post has been deleted by a moderator

    1. John G Imrie Silver badge
  8. Potemkine! Silver badge

    Plenty of these nuts over there

    Obscurantism is making a great come back from the Middle Age.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Plenty of these nuts over there

      You think it ever went away?

    2. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: Plenty of these nuts over there

      “Houses will be set aflame, hens will stop laying, cattle will cease to graze and a man that would send engines through the air at twenty miles per hour is a maniac”

      It’s nothing new.

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge

        Re: Plenty of these nuts over there

        I dunno, that did all come to pass. A little bit.

        There have been fires, and a lot of railways went through fields so the cows etc had to lay eggs and graze elsewhere.

        1. HorseflySteve
          Alert

          Re: Plenty of these nuts over there

          The railways caused the cows to lay eggs??!! Just what harm HS2 is going to cause!

          1. Loud Speaker

            Re: Plenty of these nuts over there

            Just what harm HS2 is going to cause!

            In the words of Bart Simpson, the protestors will probably have a cow!

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Plenty of these nuts over there

            Cow eggs are brown and squishy when fresh, and turn crunchy when stored properly.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I cannot quote from it now, but I have read about it

    I also read about it, on FB, so it must be true.

    V. Lenin

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I cannot quote from it now, but I have read about it

      But you still won't 'friend' me

      L. Trotsky

      1. UriGagarin

        Re: I cannot quote from it now, but I have read about it

        But I did poke you !

        J Stalin

        1. Anomalous Cowturd
          Joke

          Re: I cannot quote from it now, but I have read about it

          > But I did poke you !

          > J Stalin

          Yes, but an ice pick was a bit excessive.

          1. hplasm Silver badge
            Thumb Up

            Re: I cannot quote from it now, but I have read about it

            >Yes, but an ice pick was a bit excessive.

            It made my ears burn!

            >L. Trotsky

            1. jake Silver badge

              Re: I cannot quote from it now, but I have read about it

              And sadly, we have no more heroes anymore.

    2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
      Mushroom

      Re: I cannot quote from it now, but I have read about it

      Someone at work half an hour ago told me about it. "5G uses the same technology as nuclear bombs, I can't remember the details but I read about it somewhere."

      Then again, this is the same person who uses evidence free internet sites to talk about nutrition and vaccinations. Who doesn't think measles is a serious disease, and challenged my sources when my first response was to look up the symptoms and likelihood of measles complications on the CDC website!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I cannot quote from it now, but I have read about it

        "5G uses the same technology as nuclear bombs, I can't remember the details but I read about it somewhere"

        I'd say general relativity is important to both, so I guess that they're technically correct, if wildly misunderstanding the point.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    5G cannot penetrate trees and that, as a result...?

    It's a WITCH!!!!

    1. BigSLitleP Silver badge

      Re: 5G cannot penetrate trees and that, as a result...?

      Does a 5G signal weigh the same as a duck?

      1. T. F. M. Reader Silver badge

        Re: 5G cannot penetrate trees and that, as a result...?

        Does a 5G signal weigh the same as a duck?

        African or European?

        1. Toni the terrible

          Re: 5G cannot penetrate trees and that, as a result...?

          Swallow!

      2. pavel.petrman Bronze badge

        Re: Does a 5G signal weigh the same as a duck?

        It seems to have cured my arthritis, though.

      3. herman Silver badge

        Re: 5G cannot penetrate trees and that, as a result...?

        "Does a 5G signal weigh the same as a duck?" - 5G will roll off my back like a duck.

    2. d3vy Silver badge

      Re: 5G cannot penetrate trees and that, as a result...?

      Im more amused by the comment that other (presumably non 5g) signals "go around us"

    3. Nick Kew

      Re: 5G cannot penetrate trees and that, as a result...?

      You may have a point. Is that why Granny Weatherwax's broomstick never responded to the dwarves' attempts to fix it?

    4. ibmalone Silver badge

      Re: 5G cannot penetrate trees and that, as a result...?

      I think they're saying this will result in trees being cut down to get signal. On reflection, if self-driving cars really do need 5G it could be an issue in places like the New Forest.

      1. Anomalous Cowturd
        Boffin

        Re: 5G cannot penetrate trees and that, as a result...?

        I can't help but wonder what one of these cars would do if a New Forest pony decides to step out in the road on a dark night?

        Do they know about animals? Does it assign scores to bigger ones over smaller ones, before deciding whether to squish or swerve?

        1. jake Silver badge

          Re: 5G cannot penetrate trees and that, as a result...?

          Ponys are (in general!) smarter than that. The genetically suicidal critters that seem to have a cosmopolitan[0] population are deer, thus the term "deer in the headlights".

          [0] It's a technical term in this context. Look it up.

        2. ibmalone Silver badge

          Re: 5G cannot penetrate trees and that, as a result...?

          One hopes they will not crash in to medium to large sized mammals as a rule. Mainly out of self-interest.

          As for ponies, see also fallen trees, boulders, wombats... (admittedly rare in the New Forest)

      2. This post has been deleted by its author

  11. alain williams Silver badge

    It is hardly surprising that there is a problem with Brexit

    These MPs have demonstrated a lack of interest in seeking available evidence before voicing opinions as facts. Then, when shown the evidence, continue to espouse whatever bollocks had infected their minds.

    1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      Re: It is hardly surprising that there is a problem with Brexit

      These MPs have demonstrated a lack of interest in seeking available evidence before voicing opinions as facts.

      It's what they do. See-

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2019/9780111187654

      For more info. An SI waved through the Commons on Monday that is likely to cost us around £40bn a year.

      1. MGJ

        Re: It is hardly surprising that there is a problem with Brexit

        And the cost of doing nothing on the climate emergency is? Strange how some people only like science when it supports their exisitng views.

        1. J.G.Harston Silver badge

          Re: It is hardly surprising that there is a problem with Brexit

          But we *haven't* been doing nothing about climate change. Have you seen what it looked like out there in the 1950s? Have you *seen* the pre-climate-levy price of petrol, gas and leccy?

      2. localzuk

        Re: It is hardly surprising that there is a problem with Brexit

        £40bn is nothing compared to trying to live on an uninhabitable planet...

        1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: It is hardly surprising that there is a problem with Brexit

          £40bn is nothing compared to trying to live on an uninhabitable planet...

          If you believe in climate dogma, that's inevitable anyway, unless every other country on the planet follows suit. The UK's efforts should reduce global temperatures by something like 0.02C.

          Now back to the BBC, where it's puzzled by European summers..

          1. localzuk

            Re: It is hardly surprising that there is a problem with Brexit

            Ah yes the "we shouldn't do anything because no-one else is" argument.

            Or, how about we act as a world leader on the issue and by making the changes ourselves, we encourage others to do so too?

            And the "European summers" don't puzzle the BBC. The countries experiencing these extreme high temperatures aren't used to them either. Sure, they get hot summers, but these are extremes that aren't normal for them. France has put on extra measures to try and reduce loss of life because they were caught unprepared last year. This is the first year, ever, that they have hit more than 45 degrees C in France. EVER. As in, not normal.

            1. Carpet Deal 'em Bronze badge
              Stop

              Re: It is hardly surprising that there is a problem with Brexit

              > Ah yes the "we shouldn't do anything because no-one else is" argument.

              The UK emits about one percent of the world's CO2 emissions(less than global aviation). At some point, you're just hurting your economy to no benefit. What would help would be to harangue China into acting on its emissions, which are twice the next highest.

              1. localzuk

                Re: It is hardly surprising that there is a problem with Brexit

                You know, we shouldn't do anything about knife crime, as ours is still a tiny percentage of knife crime world wide. Instead, we should harangue Mexico into acting on its knife crime...

    2. Jamie Jones Silver badge

      Re: It is hardly surprising that there is a problem with Brexit

      .... except the aforementioned Antonia Antoniazzi (so good theh named her twice!) is a huge enemy of brexit, and has been campaigning strongly for a peoples vote for some time...

  12. TDog

    New way of dealing with thieves who tell you your internet isn't right (tenuous connection)

    Just play along with them, ask if it is anything to do with Tonia Antoniazzi, the MP for Wales' Gower peninsula and the surrounding area (c.f. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/06/27/mps_5g_electrosensitivity_5g_cancer_doom_apocalyse_etc/) and 5G radiation signals. They tell you they don’t understand and they then say that your router is sending messages to their system.

    At this stage get very concerned and ask if the messages are criminal?

    Ask if the police will arrest you?

    Bit more wind up, then

    Ask which messages have they received?

    Was it the one that called them lying scum?

    Or maybe the one that called them thieving shitheads. Or was it the one that asked if their mother knew they were a thief?

    If you can get the last one out before they put the phone down give yourself 5 brownie points.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Another fence the Labor party can sit on and procastinate about

    alongside BREXIT.

    The article in yesterdays Evening Standard by Margaret Beckett hit the nail right on the head. Their dear leader wants to be all things to all men, women and insects but doesn't realise that he can't.

    If they can't ban something then sooner or later, some bright spark of a PPE graduate who has never had a real job will suggest that the next Labor Government nationalise all telecoms including Mobiles and Broadband. That and these statements by sitting MP's sort of sums up the Labor party of today.

    Before you downvote me, my father was true old labor from the day he left school in 1932 and went down the pit like his da and brothers before him and remained that way until the day he died... Well almost Blair did was the last straw for him. He'd also have no truck with Corbyn who is nowt more than a communist in sheeps clothing.

    1. Chronos Silver badge

      Re: Another fence the Labor party can sit on and procastinate about

      They're all the same: The manifesto come election time reads like they're on your side until they get a whiff of power, then it's Down With This Sort Of Thing (Careful Now) for pretty much everything joyous, fun, pleasurable or beneficial. The whole system is predicated on getting and then keeping power over others, usually by taking away rights. English common law is based on "anything that isn't specifically illegal is legal," so every bill passed removes a right. As Mr Carlin said, if it can be taken away, it isn't a right.

      As for this lot, who read that honey bees resonate at certain 4G frequencies (I'm guessing the upper µwave bands here as a bee isn't even a significant fraction of a wave at the lower end) and ran with the idea, mistaking resistive loss of an imperfect conductor (bee innards) for ionising radiation because the poor sod who wrote the study in the first place assumed it went without saying, that's exactly what happens when you let a lay-person loose with some scientific data. It's not surprising or even uncommon.

      At least bees are doing a better job of being resonant than iPhones...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Another fence the Labor party can sit on and procastinate about

      You’d think your father would have taught you how to spell Labour.

      1. Chronos Silver badge

        Re: Another fence the Labor party can sit on and procastinate about

        Speel-chuck and USian default browser settings? </PetHate>

    3. Nick Kew

      Re: Another fence the Labor party can sit on and procastinate about

      Beckett is another nasty piece of work with an axe to grind (preferably right in to Corbyn's skull).

      Parliament has more than its fair share of them, on both sides.

  14. Stoneshop Silver badge
    Pirate

    Well, actually

    "Is my honourable friend aware of the concern that 5G cannot penetrate trees and that, as a result, we are looking at the destruction of thousands and thousands of trees?"

    It is clear that scientific data cannot penetrate their brains, and as a result, we should be looking at destruction of all of them.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I got AIDS trying to set Bluetooth up on Windows XP. Can I join this club for fuckwits?

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Joke

      AIDS? Luxury, when I tried to set up Bluetooth on Windows XP I got something far worse, I got WIDCOMM.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Take that back you bar steward, I still have PTSD.

        1. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

          If the bluetooth device was a modem, then you would have had PSTN

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            You are a bad man Hans, I applaud you.

          2. jake Silver badge

            I would have thought ...

            ... a modem would give you a very bad case of DTMF.

      2. Chronos Silver badge

        Sounds painful. All I got was the Bluez...

      3. Microchip

        Could be worse. Could be BlueSoleil.

  16. Dr Scrum Master

    Dihydrogen monoxide

    Just don't tell them about dihydrogen monoxide and the number of deaths that it's been linked to!

    1. John G Imrie Silver badge
      WTF?

      Re: Dihydrogen monoxide

      Talking of links here is a good one

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Dihydrogen monoxide

        Excellent. I particularly like the advert for Klein bottles on the home page. Just what's needed for keeping the stuff safe.

      2. ElReg!comments!Pierre Silver badge

        Re: Dihydrogen monoxide

        Fake news, as is explained on this site.

    2. VinceH
      Trollface

      Re: Dihydrogen monoxide

      If there are any of these muppets' constituents reading this, they should write to them, bringing dihydrogen monoxide to their attention... see if they can be trolled into bringing up the subject in an official capacity in parliament.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: Dihydrogen monoxide

        It's been done.

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10463579

  17. Phil Bennett

    Wait, this isn't Nadine Dorries?

    Oh fuck me, there are more of them.

    1. Julz Bronze badge

      Re: Wait, this isn't Nadine Dorries?

      I think we should apply the precautionary principle to MP's. All MP's should be committed and only let out and into Parliament when they have proved their sanity.

      1. hplasm Silver badge
        Meh

        Re: Wait, this isn't Nadine Dorries?

        Care in the Community.

        Don't care in the Commons.

  18. Andy 97

    Do those loons even bother to research these things?

    As someone who's faced a community hall filled with enraged locals while attempting to explain how cellular systems work, I'm not surprised.

    I am more surprised that it was Wales, which desperately needs better connectivity. You'd think someone was attempting to hold back progress...

    I'd liken it to medieval times where they'd put elderly woman on the ducking stool if there was a crop failure.

    1. BebopWeBop Silver badge

      Re: Do those loons even bother to research these things?

      Now they elect them to the European Parliament.

      1. Andy 97

        Re: Do those loons even bother to research these things?

        At lest nobody mentioned the "chem trails"...

        1. Andytug Bronze badge

          Re: Do those loons even bother to research these things?

          Google "orgone blasters". Best laugh ever.

          That and the USians on YouTube spraying vinegar into their gardens, convinced it makes the chemtrails 40k feet above them disappear......

          1. jake Silver badge
            Pint

            Re: Do those loons even bother to research these things?

            Vinegar cures chemtrails? New one on this USian ... cite? Never mind ::eyeballs DDG:: ... How the hell did I miss THAT bit of lunacy?

            Thanks for the giggle ... have a homebrew!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Do those loons even bother to research these things?

      "I'd liken it to medieval times where they'd put elderly woman on the ducking stool if there was a crop failure."

      If you haven't got enough food to feed the village, getting rid of your mother-in-law isn't a bad start....

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Reinforcement bias.

      They don't believe anything that does not agree with them. When it does agree with them, they fall for it hook line and sinker, then get all sad when they realise it ran off with all the money. I've seen too many scammers work this way. I don't know what is worse, those doing the scam, or those falling for it.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    SNP spokesman Martyn Day MP agreed with Antoniazzi, while politely pointing out that "the evidence so far seems to show that electromagnetic fields do not have detrimental health impacts."

    Electromagnetic waves such as Microwaves, Ultraviolet rays, X-rays & Gamma Rays are very detrimental to ones health when you have the right frequency. Not that I'm a tinfoil hatter, I just like scientific accuracy.

    Dumb politicians opening their mouths again without the slightest clue what they are talking about when it comes to science, however I'll exempt my old organic chem lecturer who did become an MP who is well qualified to express an opinion and is also a top guy, Dr Brian Iddon. More MPs who are science qualified please.

  20. WonkoTheSane Silver badge
    Trollface

    By-Elections

    Their constituencies need to call immediate by-elections due to the cognitive break these MPs appear to have suffered.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: By-Elections

      I'm embarrassed to say that Antoniazzi is my MP. I can only apologise profusely for the complete lack of rationale displayed by my parliamentary representative although despite not voting for her I have to say she is marginally more rational than the Tory she replaced in the last election.

      There is a history in the area regards RF which probably plays into her position on the subject.

      Some years ago during the Tetra rollout there was a significant backlash against placement of Tetra antenna for the emergency services, so called 'experts' got involved and next thing you know, locally, it was select your torch and pitchfork.

      I found good friends of mine, ostensibly intelligent, sane and rational unwilling to listen to reasoned argument and ready to join the mob purely because these 'experts' had claimed children were most at risk.

      Despite the Swansea MP's position on this appearing to be completely irrational, on a local level a lazy or cynical representative could see it as making political sense.

      1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

        Re: By-Elections

        She's mine too, and her anti-brexit stance, and the fact she generally gives a shit, is far more important to me than any of this.

        Anyway, there's a big mobile mast next to the field behind her constituency office, not that 5G will be coming here anytime soon...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: By-Elections

          So she supports a position that you hold (as it happens I do too), but personally I don't see that as an excuse for ignorance on other matters. This smacks of cynical rabble rousing.

          By the way, there are no fields in the middle of Gorseinon.

          1. Jamie Jones Silver badge
            Facepalm

            Re: By-Elections

            When all the other MP's just do what's best for themselves, and/or toe the party line, then it makes an MP who is willing to defy the whip and stick to her principles stand out.

            This is not a "she likes one of my things so sod everything else" statement, but based on her record.

            P.S. Next time you're in Gorseinon, go and ask Gorseinon Rugby Club how they manage to play if they don't have a field.

            Hint: It's the big green blob behind her constituency office.... The one with a mast next to it

            https://www.google.com/maps/place/17+West+St,+Gorseinon,+Swansea+SA4+4AA/@51.6679845,-4.0434567,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x486ef3906acf617d:0xdafa8edaba0ac3bc!8m2!3d51.6679845!4d-4.041268

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: By-Elections

              Anyway, there's a mobile mast next to the 'playing' field 'the other side of the municipal car park around 150 meters' behind her constituency office.

              There, clarified that for you however it doesn't sound quite so dramatic now does it?

  21. BebopWeBop Silver badge

    The honourable member for the Gower replied: "I cannot quote from it now, but I have read about it. We must remember that animals do not use screens, but there is evidence of the impact on them of electromagnetic fields from things such as smartphones and 5G."

    She has a subscription to the "National Enquirer" (beneficial overseas subscriptions available) that well-known antidote to "Experts"

  22. Rich 11 Silver badge

    Antoniazzi said: “We need to apply the precautionary principle when we look at anything.”

    We could start by applying it to Parliamentary candidates. Screen the nutters out before anyone wastes a single vote on them.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      There's a good argument to be made for requiring a fitness to govern test for anyone aspiring to public office at any level from local govt. upwards.

      There used to be an exam for candidates for the Civil Service but any fool could, and often did, get into Parliament. Perhaps it's time to bring that back, at least for positions of administrative responsibility and require candidates for public office to pass it. Maybe retest periodically at age 70 & above.

      PPE graduates should, of course, undergo substantial retraining before being allowed to even take the test.

      1. OssianScotland Silver badge

        FTFY - PPE graduates should NEVER be allowed to take the test

    2. OssianScotland Silver badge

      So anyone who wants to be a candidate is, automatically, a nutter, and should be immediately disqualified? Seems reasonable to me - I think Billy Connolly said it first, though.

  23. MacroRodent Silver badge
    Black Helicopters

    It's that time again

    The introduction of every new cellular technology has been accompanied by cancer claims, starting with the original analogue networks.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: every new cellular technology has been accompanied by cancer claims,

      I see. So if a suspicious looking skin lesion claims to be merely "a new cellular technology", based

      on "Melanomiax(tm)" or somesuch, we should be sure to not over react? :-)

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: every new cellular technology has been accompanied by cancer claims,

        A suspicious looking skin lesion is just a suspicious looking skin lesion. It lacks the ability to claim anything.

        1. hplasm Silver badge
          Devil

          Re: every new cellular technology has been accompanied by cancer claims,

          "A suspicious looking skin lesion is just a suspicious looking skin lesion. It lacks the ability to claim anything."

          Except when beneath a politician's mouth, of course.

          1. hplasm Silver badge
            Facepalm

            Re: every new cellular technology has been accompanied by cancer claims,

            Damn.

            Should have read Poiltician's Nose...

  24. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "wireless signals are a possible human carcinogen"

    In the same way that anything else such as parliamentary hot air is a possible human carcinogen . So maybe she should shut up.

  25. Totally not a Cylon
    Boffin

    RF emissions are good for you!

    The RAF did a study in the 50's; comparing aerial riggers with admin staff.

    The fitters were healthier, must be all that RF from clambering around active kit all day. ;)

    Or maybe just being active all day is better than sitting on your posterior all day!

    Flipside:

    I once got a headache from being in the same room as an electromagnet whilst at Uni.

    It was a big magnet though, measured in whole Teslas. Big notice on door "No bank cards, metal watches or electronics allowed"

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
      Happy

      Re: RF emissions are good for you!

      Why? Did the bank cards and watches get headaches too?

      1. MiguelC Silver badge

        Re: RF emissions are good for you!

        They didn't; but if they flew in your head's direction, you'd have one.

    2. Stoneshop Silver badge

      Re: RF emissions are good for you!

      It was a big magnet though, measured in whole Teslas. Big notice on door "No bank cards, metal watches or electronics allowed"

      I got to visit Philips Medical Systems a couple of times while they were building the first MRI scanners (data processing was done using a VAX11/750 with a 3rd party FP unit bolted on). Each of the assembly and testing stands had a honest to goodness motorway crash barrier around it, twice as high as a motorway one and with three or four horizontal bars. They also had a couple of pics of gear that got very attracted to the magnet very fast, among which several toolkits and a gas cylinder.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: RF emissions are good for you!

      >It was a big magnet though, measured in whole Teslas. Big notice on door "No bank cards, metal watches or electronics allowed

      Yep, had my card wiped by a 600MHz NMR when I forgot it was in my pocket and found out frustratingly on a Saturday night out it had been wiped.

  26. d3vy Silver badge

    "On a more light-hearted note, those people who have Netflix might have seen the impact of electromagnetic fields being played out, albeit in a fictional sense, in a programme called “Better Call Saul”, in which the brother of the main character is terribly affected—indeed, he is housebound—by EMF. It is often said with these types of issues that Hollywood leads the way in bringing them to the public’s attention, and this example is definitely a case in point."

    Is she aware that

    1. Thats fictional

    2. Chucks symptoms were shown on multiple occasions to be entirely imagined.

    1. Baldrickk Silver badge

      Regarding point #1, isn't it shown to be fictional in the show too?

      1. d3vy Silver badge

        "Regarding point #1, isn't it shown to be fictional in the show too?"

        Yes, that was point #2

        1. 's water music Silver badge
          Trollface

          >>"Regarding point #1, isn't it shown to be fictional in the show too?"

          Yes, that was point #2

          Wait, so if point 1 was debunked in a fictional show, surely that means that point 1 still stands IRL?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      the main character is terribly affected—indeed, he is housebound—by EMF

      Unbelievable

    3. TomPhan

      It does have the effect of making you look for witches.

  27. anthonyhegedus Silver badge

    This started off a year or two ago with stories that 5G 'satellites' are bombarding everyone with radiation, and there will be thousands of 5G satellites in the sky.

    1. alain williams Silver badge

      5G 'satellites'

      Just don't tell them that there is a large fusion reactor 92 million miles away that is bombarding the entire planet with high levels of radiation - so much that if you spend the day outside and are not protected then your skin will turn red and may even burn.

      1. Stoneshop Silver badge

        Re: 5G 'satellites'

        Just don't tell them that there is a large fusion reactor 92 million miles away that is bombarding the entire planet with high levels of radiation

        Do the Welsh know from their own observations that this reactor exists? Or would they consider it just hearsay?

  28. ukgnome
    Coat

    It's all bullshit - We have had 2G and 3G for a while - together that is 5G and it's only a problem now. - it makes no sense

    1. Semtex451 Silver badge

      Sir, I respectfully point out that I believe one must add them and multiply that product by five to discover the units in G, which as we all know, is short for Grave, I read that somewhere.

  29. Simon Rockman

    It's complicated, so people don't try to understand, they just have opinions.

    The millitant action against 5G seems to have come out of nowhere.

    The problem is, if you explain to people with deeply held beliefs why they are wrong they are incapable of absorbing the information. It's fine with people who are neutral, but when someone asks you "Is it safe?" and you say "Limits are not yet fully harmonised within the EU but the upper limit, which applies to the total power from all sources, recommended by ICNIRP is f/200 W/m^2 between 400 MHz and 2 GHz, then 10 W/m^2 up to 300 GHz which is an electric field strength of 61.4 V/m." you can't be surprised when they switch off. And go back to their beliefs.

    I'm in a twitter war with someone who has oblected to my blog, who won't accept any argument on the basis that I work in the industry so I'm biased. But if the industry doesn't do any resarch it's accused of ignoring the problem.

    This is complicated by the people ho know about biology not tending to know about rado physics and vice versa. I've worked with people who understand the physics and they have critised the methodology of some of the biologists doing research, and I guess if I found some good biological people they would make similar claims of the physicists.

    We've looked very, very hard, there are something like six billion phones in use and we've not found anything yet, but that doesn't seem to carry any weight.

    1. Chronos Silver badge

      Re: It's complicated, so people don't try to understand, they just have opinions.

      I'm in a twitter war

      Why? You can't educate these people so why bother? Twitter is much more representative of population as a whole than this forum. As I have said before, imagine the average person. Now realise that 50% of everyone else is thicker than that.

      1. Andytug Bronze badge

        Re: It's complicated, so people don't try to understand, they just have opinions.

        I suspect it's a fair bit more than 50% that are thicker than average...the bell curve for this one being somewhat less than symmetrical.......

    2. J.G.Harston Silver badge

      Is it safe?

      Define "safe".

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: Is it safe?

        A safe is a box with a locking lid that protects the contents from outside reality.

        1. psychonaut

          Re: Is it safe?

          Is it safe?

          "Oh yes. It's perfectly safe, and its merely us that are in trouble"

  30. Pete4000uk

    We have them here

    There are lots of '5G Extinction' stickers and a guy saying it's a bigger threat than climate change. Stroud has always been a hotbed of alternativeness.

    1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      Re: We have them here

      There's a big spray-painted anti-5G graffito which I pass on my way to work each day. One wonders how much damage to the evironment and to their own lungs the sprayer did whilst painting it.

  31. SVV Silver badge

    "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

    They've obviously turned the brains of our MPs to mush, so get out there and stop the mobile operators chopping down every tree in Britain before it's too late!

    I myself am safe, as the adjoining garden has a massive leylandii tree in it, or "my happy natural 5G brain fry protector" as I shall henceforth call it.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: "Is there any evidence that electromagnetic fields can affect the behaviour of animals?"

      "stop the mobile operators chopping down every tree in Britain before it's too late!"

      Too late. You lot cut down most of your trees in the middle-ages, and nearly managed to wipe out the rest between WWI and WWII ...

      "a massive leylandii tree"

      That's not a tree. That's nobbut a bush, lad.

  32. silks

    Here we go again!

    Haven't we been here before with 1G, 2G, 3G, 4G...

    Maybe if there is a case that radio signals affect the brain it's only affecting the rational thought processes of our elected representatives!

  33. White Lightning Three Litre Barrack Buster

    Same old story

    Late 90's & early 2000's, groups of people protesting and vandalising mobile telecoms masts under the idea that they were a health and environmental hazard.

    Late 2000's & early 2010's, the same groups of people protest about poor mobile phone coverage, wondering why "technology" hasn't given a solution yet. Maybe because to give adequate coverage, you need mobile telecoms stations on masts or buildings to fill in coverage holes?

    Late 2010's & likely early 2020's, groups of people protesting and vandalising mobile telecoms masts under the idea that they were a health and environmental hazard.

    Rinse, dry, be ignorant, and repeat.

  34. Big_Boomer Bronze badge
    Mushroom

    BAN WiFI, after all Microwave ovens operate at 2.450Mhz and that is smack bang in the middle of the 2.4Ghz band used by WiFi. I mean, you could cook the cat with just one Tweet,.... if you boosted your WiFi to 900Watts instead of the 100mW! The scariest thing about these people is just how unbelievably stupid they and the morons who vote for them are. All that Facebark and Twatter seems to be doing is fully exposing just how fecking stupid a large proportion of the human race really are. Next thing these idiots will want to ban water as you can drown in that shit!!

    1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      Next thing these idiots will want to ban water as you can drown in that shit!!

      Don't you mean DHMO? (see above...)

    2. Tromos
      Joke

      "...900Watts instead of the 100mW..."

      As many ready meal packets will tell you in the instructions: At lower powers increase cooking time.

  35. Chris Miller

    The Precautionary Principle

    Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone - BANANAs

  36. BGatez Bronze badge

    ho ho ....ho?

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-studies-link-cell-phone-radiation-with-cancer/?redirect=1

    From that whacko publication Scientific American -

    "New Studies Link Cell Phone Radiation with Cancer

    Researchers call for greater caution, but skeptics say the evidence from rat studies is not convincing"

    1. Stoneshop Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: ho ho ....ho?

      but skeptics say the evidence from rat studies is not convincing

      Rats are known to cause cancer in lab research.

  37. BGatez Bronze badge

    Are you all climate change deiers too?

    Fairly hilarious, both the article bias and what seems to be a near consensus of commenters, that people questioning 5G safety are just a bunch of nuts. How similar to climate change deniers who can't see or smell it and aren't dying straight away so it must be nonsense.

    1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      Re: Are you all climate change deiers too?

      How similar to climate change deniers who can't see or smell it and aren't dying straight away so it must be nonsense.

      Yeah, it's not like the physcial mechanisms behind global warming have been known about for 150 years, are solid science, well proven, and well understood in the scientific community, whilst at the same time, there's aboslutely no known or postulated scientific explanation for why 5G is going to make all our heads explode, is there?

      It's like the difference between saying, "if you hit yourself in the head with an iron bar, it'll hurt. I know because I was stupid enough to do it and so was my friend, we have videos of it, and signed documents by the A&E staff saying we dented our skulls" (peer reviewed documented experimental science), and saying "I heard hitting yourself in the head with an iron bar will give you magical powers. Why don't you try it?" (magical thinking). If you can't see the difference there, you have no business "trying to science".

  38. AndyFl

    The hole keeps getting deeper

    Every time I think our MPs have found a new low they just keep digging a deeper hole.

    The human race is doomed.

    1. hplasm Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: The hole keeps getting deeper

      All it takes ins one (Wo)Man with a shovel...

      yay! Saved!

  39. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You won't like this.....

    But, I can totally see the risks with 5G - to suggest that existing cell radiation does NOT come with risks of cancer is simply FICTION - there are many studies that show otherwise.

    Here is one of many studies you will find - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-studies-link-cell-phone-radiation-with-cancer/

    With 5G we will all be living within spitting distance of micro cell sites carrying non ionizing microwaves close to you 24/7 - and those are the same microwaves that will cook a chicken in 2 minutes in your kitchen microwave oven.

    So this time I would like to seem some proper peer reviewed research on its safety in close proximity over a long period of time before I want a 5G cell outside my kids bedroom window thank you very much....

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5784487/The-roll-5G-wireless-service-massive-health-experiment-public-health-expert-warns-a.html

    1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

      Re: You won't like this.....

      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health ...

      Isn't that the site where each day's headline is generated by -

      printf( strcat( Product[PRNG()] , "gives you cancer" ) );

      1. Anomalous Cowturd
        Joke

        Re: You won't like this.....

        > Isn't that the site where each day's headline is generated by -

        > printf( strcat( Product[PRNG()] , "gives you cancer" ) );

        Also:

        > printf( strcat( Teen in bikini[PRNG()] , "All grown up" ) );

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: You won't like this.....

        Or cures cancer - it must be one or the other !

    2. Mike007

      Re: You won't like this.....

      If they are planning on putting a transmitter outside your kids bedroom window, ask them to put a directional antenna on it and turn the transmission power up by a factor of several hundred so it will reduce your heating bill!

    3. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge

      Re: ...the same microwaves that will cook a chicken in 2 minutes in your kitchen microwave...

      The scarey thing is you're actually serious.

      Are you deliberately ignoring there's at least 3 orders of magnitude difference in power between a 5G signal and a microwave oven, or just unable to grasp why the difference matters?

    4. BinkyTheHorse

      Re: You won't like this.....

      > Here is one of many studies you will find - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-studies-link-cell-phone-radiation-with-cancer/

      If you'd actually read that article, you'd find that:

      - this is actually about two studies,

      - the rats in the study, in most of the groups, were exposed to much higher radiation than legally permitted for RF (sounds familar to the infamous aspartame study, doesn't it?),

      - the results are considered inconclusive by some quite important experts,

      - the article specifically mentions that other studies contradict these ones in conclusions.

      Not being able to look at the studies, it also looks as if the researchers were doing some statistical shotgun shooting, the problems with which are described in this XKCD comic.

  40. KIMtech

    Honestly, how many of you take what the tech industry says as gospel? There have been many documented cases where 5g Masts have been put up near schools and those children in those schools have a higher rate of cancer. If you think it is safe good for you! But let us see a year down the line. This has not been tested at all!

    1. AndyFl

      OK let's try to answer this

      Firstly, 5g isn't a thing yet, ignore the advertising wank. The only possible difference in relation to exposure would be the additional frequency bands but they haven't deployed any of them yet.

      You always have clusters of cancer/coffee shops or whatever. It is called random distribution. Read about confirmation bias and issues where you select data to match what you are looking for.

      Strangely enough, having a cell site near you will reduce exposure as the phone in your hand has bigger effect than the cell site. A nearby cell site will cause the phone to dramatically reduce transmit power and your exposure.

      Many documented cases? Citation required from a reputable journal.

      I do know what I am talking about as I've been a designer for 35 years. ICNIRP anyone?

      1. Will_Tell

        Proximity is not the issue. 5G introduces new wavelengths - a broad swath of microwave - that are new to handset technology and have not been tested outside of the industry itself.

        1. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge

          Proximit is not the issue.

          Say wot? Sounds like you're suggesting this particular frequency band somehow has homeopathic, nay magical physics defying properties, such that transmission power does not drop with the square of distance from the transmitter.

          Come on, share what you're smoking. The rest of us want a go.

  41. IVVI958

    5G is begin rolled out without public consultation. People are not given the choice if they want it or not. If there is 5G where you live, tough.. This is not democratic. This is Human Experimentation that is violating the Nunberg Code.

    There is no evidence that 5G is safe, but there is evidence that 4G is carcinogenic.You welcome to call me whatever you want, but I feel that safety comes first.

    Just in case you wish to read a little more on this, see below

    1. https://www.emfcall.org/

    Scientists’ EMF Call Appeal: ‘ICNIRP’s opinion and guidelines are unscientific and protect industry, not public health.’

    ‘In order to protect the public and the environment from the known harmful effects from electromagnetic fields (EMF) we ask the United Nations, the World Health Organization and all governments not to accept the ICNIRP guidelines. They are not protective, rather they pose a serious risk to human health and the environment since they allow harmful exposure to the world population, including the most vulnerable, under the unscientific pretext that they are “protective”.

    Background: The International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP) issued draft Guidelines on 11th July 2018 for limiting exposure to electric, magnetic and electromagnetic fields (100 kHz to 300 GHz). 1. These guidelines are unscientific, obsolete and do not represent an objective evaluation of the available science on effects from this form of radiation. They ignore the vast amount of scientific findings that clearly and convincingly show harmful effects at intensities well below ICNIRP guidelines. 2. The guidelines are inadequate to protect humans and the environment.’

    2. https://stiftung-pandora.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Pandora_KI_Adlkofer-lecture_2014-10-30.pdf

    ‘How Industry and Politics Has Been Dealing with the Radiation Protection of People‘

    3. http://www.neilcherry.nz/documents/90_m1_EMR_Australian_Senate_Evidence_8-9-2000.pdf

    ‘Evidence of Health Effects of Electromagnetic Radiation, To the Australian Senate Inquiry into Electromagnetic Radiation‘ Dr Neil Cherry

    4. http://phiremedical.org/safety-limits-and-political-conflicts-of-interest/?print=print

    ‘Safety Limits and Political Conflicts of Interest’

    5. https://www.radiationresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/2017_03_01_WHO.pdf

    World Health Organization Avenue Appia 20 – 1211 Geneva 27, Switzerland

    Attention: Maria Neira, Director, Public Health and Environment

    Subject: International EMF Project; unbalanced WHO working group (WG) on evaluation of health effects from radiofrequency (RF) radiation

    6. http://freiburger-appell-2012.info/en/observations-findings.php

    Freiburg Appeal: ‘Wireless Radiation Poses a Health Risk. Physicians Demand Overdue Precaution!’

    7. https://www.emrpolicy.org/news/headlines/helsinki_appeal_05.pdf

    Helsinki Appeal 2005

    ‘The present safety standards of ICNIRP (International Commission of Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection) do not recognize the biological effects caused by non-ionizing radiation except those induced by the thermal effect. In the light of recent scientific information, the standards recommended by ICNIRP have becomeobsolete and should be rejected.’

    7. https://bioinitiative.org/conclusions/

    From the Bioinitiative Report conclusions:

    8.https://www.stopumts.nl/doc.php/Artikelen/11684/prof._pall_s_response_to_2018_icnirp_draft_statement_with_appendices

    ‘Prof. Pall’s Response to 2018 ICNIRP draft statement, with appendices’

    ‘Conclusion: It is our opinion that safety can only be assessed biologically and that the whole structure that ICNIRP proposes is deeply flawed.’

    9. http://www.icems.eu/docs/resolutions/London_res.pdf

    ‘The London Resolution’

    10. https://cdn.website-editor.net/2479f24c54de4c7598d60987e3d81157/files/uploaded/Early_Years_Inquiry_EY10062.pdf

    ‘Written evidence submitted by Dr Sarah Starkey (EYI0062)’

    Dr Martin Pall: ”There are ways in which these devices can be made safer but we’re currently running as fast as we can in exactly the wrong direction.”

    1. timrowledge

      Is this “Nunberg Code” the next Dan Brown novel?

  42. HmYiss

    Well this one really brings out the neo-nazis..

    1. genghis_uk

      And we have hit the Godwin number!

  43. USER100

    Shame about MPs

    It's a shame about MPs. The worse they perform (and the more they are derided for this), the less likely it is that anyone with any sense will want to become one, so the calibre of candidates becomes ever lower. It's like a feedback loop.

    Maybe it would be better if MPs were randomly selected like with jury service? There'd be a risk of the odd mentalist getting picked but they could be always be recalled/voted out later.

    1. madick

      Re: Shame about MPs

      I've been advocating random selection for MPs for decades:

      a) It's more representative of the general population

      b) It reduces the probability that the country's law makers will be a bunch of shysters

      c) It may/should lead to the demise of party politics

      There would need to be a list of those who were ineligible for selection:

      a) Anyone who is or has ever been elected as an MP, MEP, SMP, local government councillor, etc.

      b) Anyone who has ever been convicted of a violent crime (defn. required)

      c) Add your favourite group of nutters here (e.g. BBC/Guardian journalists, Scientology advocates, etc)

  44. Will_Tell
    Alien

    Not this again

    In the US, the FCC passed a regulation (it's a law-ish) that blocks any municipality from challenging 5G rollout "based on health concerns" specifically. So, they censored the debate before the rollout began.

    Know what other industry did that? Frakking. They make it illegal to challenge the new, for profit tech. But hey, all the safety studies are done by said industry, so why should we be the least bit suspicious.

    Be luck you have a few reps that don't just kneel before industry no questions asked - we're 100% bought and paid for on this side of the drink

    1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

      Re: Not this again

      A whole bunch of you registered on this site yesterday to post anti 5G comments.

      Either you are all the same person, or this article has been posted on some forum.

      In the interests of transparency and fair-play, please tell us which, and if the latter, the address of the site you've come from.

      Cheers

  45. Zebo-the-Fat

    5G is at a higher frequency than 3 or 4G, this means that it will penetrate skin less. So for a given power level, 5G will have less effect on the body than 4G

    1. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge

      The 26 GHz signals have a very difficult time penetrating air. Why don't the tin-foil hatters go after self-driving cars covered with high power RADAR and LIDAR systems?

      1. AndyFl

        Don't encourage them

      2. Mike007

        They don't "go after" self-driving cars because there is a high risk of it "accidentally" running you over. Safer to stay away from that one!

        What is a 5G base station going to do if you argue with it? Deny you access? I'll just use my nice safe Cat3 connection to tweet the evidence... in a minute... any minute now...

      3. proinnsias

        Disturbingly, they do ..

        A recent objection to self-driving cars etc I heard was from a cycling group who thought that the LIDAR etc could reflect off the wing-mirrors of cars ahead and into the face of the cyclists causing (you've guessed it) Cancer!

        Can't win!

  46. Sylvan

    Fascinating. Obviously the raising of the insane plan to roll out 5G with literally no safety testing for this wavelength of microwave, a mutli trillion dollar earner for the government- world-wide in one of the largest infrastructure changes the world has seen, in the face of professor Martin Pall, from Washington U. saying it is insanity and will lead to the extincion of humanity, and also in the face of over 260 internationosl scientists in their appeal to the UN and other bodies to halt 5G - has struck a nerve, judging by this nasty, cheap, ignorant and superficial article.

    1. the Jim bloke Silver badge
      Alien

      in the face of professor Martin Pall, from Washington U. saying it is insanity and will lead to the extincion of humanity,

      Good.

      I never liked them anyway.

      Bunch of assholes, the lot of em.

    2. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      iterally no safety testing for this wavelength of microwave

      Yeah, it's not like physicists know exactly how IR radiation at this frequency behaves and interacts with matter. And radio-emitting equimpent never has any safety testing does it?

      I think maybe you need to go away and educate yourself a bit about the EM spectrum before you make more of an arse of yourself in public.

      1. N.Ginear

        To use your own words, I suggest YOU 'educate yourself a bit about the EM spectrum before you make more of an arse of yourself in public', 5g is not IR radiation, it's microwave.

        After that, try reading up on the research on how EM affects cellular voltage-gated calcium channels causing biological effects.

  47. steve 124

    "concerns that have long since been put to bed" ??

    Seriously? I read that line and asked myself, did this author do any research at all before writing this article?

    Hmm, so you think the fact that since the telecomms paid a bunch of researchers over the past 20 years to publish that 2.4Ghz and below frequency radiation doesn't cause significant harm to humans (which, is dubious at best) that directly translates to 5G?

    Have you seen the saturation estimates for 5G? Do you realize the frequencies we're talking about with 5G (it's EHF, 24-86GHz).

    Let's put that in perspective shall we? The same amount of energy being transmitted over a 2.4GHz wave (about 122mm) is now being compressed into about 3-4mm waveform.

    Let's put it this way.... imagine you have a gallon of water and you spray it through a squirt gun capable of pushing that water out in 1 minute at your hand.

    Doesn't hurt.

    Let's now put that same gallon into a high pressure nozzle and shoot it at your hand in 1.7 seconds.... ouch!

    That's the difference between energy levels when you're comparing 2.4Ghz to 86Ghz.

    So, 5G is new, it's been studied less than 2 years and very little health studies done (since there's been a huge political push to deploy it). So the real testing is going to be in the public.

    Still feel like this subject has been "long since put to bed?"

    Myself, I'm quite concerned about this. I'm pretty sure my current 4G equipment is doing some long term damage, but being an engineer I HAVE to have this stuff hanging on my hip all day long. There's no WAY IN HELL I'll be holstering a 5G phone.

    Just my 2 cents.

    1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      Re: "concerns that have long since been put to bed" ??

      The same amount of energy being transmitted over a 2.4GHz wave (about 122mm) is now being compressed into about 3-4mm waveform.

      Lets hope you never find out what wavelength visible light is at, eh? Better turn all the lights off now in case you get hosed down by them.

      Just my 2 cents.

      Would you like a refund?

      1. finlaythethinker

        Re: "concerns that have long since been put to bed" ??

        One of the problems trying to educate people like you is that you fail to understand that natural light bears no resemblance to the pulsed microwaves emitted by wireless technology. Same with all the idiots ranting on about global warming and climate change -- the Earth's climate has always changed and has nothing at all to do with CO2 levels. Data from ice core sample analysis has always shown temperature increase always happens before CO2 increase. Understandable as the ocean's release more CO2 as they warm, and take in more as they cool. If the people worried about Earth's natural processes had a clue they will discover the planetary ice sheets have been expanding, not shrinking, and the UN's reports on climate change to date are politically based, and not based on any real science but just computer models that so far have never agreed with real temperature data. Same thing with carbon tax, just another unjustified method of making you poorer.

    2. BinkyTheHorse

      Re: "concerns that have long since been put to bed" ??

      You're confusing photon energy and emission power. If you emit a signal with a given power, it does not become more intense per area because the photon energy/frequency is larger. 1W/kg stays 1W/kg, otherwise we'd be magically getting increased total energy for "free".

      The frequency does define harmful effects for given power, but the effect is not linear. In fact, higher-frequency microwave e.g. achieves less body penetration than lower-frequency. And, as Loyal Commander noted, before you get to ionizing radiation you still have visible light along the way.

  48. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I was under the impression that

    5G mobile phone signals makes your pee glow in the dark.

    Some Yankee guy with blond hair and panda eyes where his fake tan wasn't applied correctly once told me that.

  49. finlaythethinker

    How brainwashed have the majority of you become??

    It amazes me that so many commenters on this forum still have no idea as to what the actual scientific research has discovered about the effects of exposure to non-ionising radiation. Ignore the flashy ads trying to sell you the latest wireless wonder, and instead investigate what the real facts are.

    Every cell in our body communicates by small electrical signals, so why is it so difficult to understand that continuous bombardment billions of times a second from ever increasing levels of pulsed microwaves would not affect you? The damage may happen slowly but is cumulative. Dark field microscopy easily shows cell clumping and damage after just 10 minutes of using a cell phone beside your head. If you read the manufacturer's safety information supplied with your cell phone, but hidden away so most users never even find it to read, it explains that the cell phone should never be in contact with any parr of your body otherwise the supposedly "safe" SAR will be exceeded. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were knowledgeable enough to keep their children away from wireless devices. All wireless technology would be banned for public use if the true facts were known. Some of the most recent studies now show increasing rates of depression, autism, blood-brain barrier leakage and once rare brain cancers as being directly related to the invisible electro-smog environment we live in. A small percentage of the population are now so affected by EHS they can no longer enjoy a normal life.

    Before everyone gets excited over how great 5G wireless technology is, or for that matter any other type of wireless technology, people should be made aware of the real fact that such technology has very serious long term damaging health effects.  Read the research of Dr. Martin Pall or any of the other experts if you have any doubt of this fact.

    I live in Canada and have learned that Health Canada's Safety Code 6 ignores the proven DNA damaging effects of non-ionizing radiation on all life.  It only provides protection from unwanted thermal (heating) effects.  The wireless industry removes funding from any researcher finding health damage due to wireless radiation exposure and daring to publish such information.  Wireless industry promoters, much like those in the past promoting pesticides, tobacco, asbestos and other toxic products, do everything possible to downplay any real facts becoming common knowledge.  Current Safety Code 6 exposure limits are still based on what industry developed in 1996 to ensure damaging health effects are ignored.  Calling for more studies while ignoring what is already known just delays the inevitable truth that we are all being slowly killed by the unnatural and invisible pulsed microwaves emitted by all wireless devices.  Most of our government and health authorities still remain ignorant of the actual research first done by the military and proving wireless radiation does damage health, and at levels far below those of Safety Code 6.  This information has been known for almost 80 years, yet the wireless industry does not want you to know the real facts as they continue to inundate humanity with cell phones, smart meters and other devices.  Even though their profits are in the trillions of dollars, the health risk is so great that no insurance company will provide health damage coverage for any of them.  Do a bit more research before parroting how protective Health Canada's Safety Code 6 and similar standards are.  Understand the propaganda and brainwashing being done in the world today to make sure you keep buying more wireless devices.  Then you might wake up like many others have done to realize the insanity of continuing to use any type of wireless technology.  So far, there is no proof of any "safe" exposure limit, but lots of proof the wireless technology is health damaging and cumulative.

    1. Esme

      Re: How brainwashed have the majority of you become??

      Let's see. We have humanity adding carbon dioxide methane and other greenhouse gases to the atmosphere at an ever increasing rate Same culprit causing huge die-offs of species through hunting, removal of natural habitat and pollution threatening the underpinnings of the ecosystem that supports us all. Same culprits over-extracting water to produce inefficiently-produced food , much of which either goes to waste or goes to create a health crisis from the effects of obesity, this in a world where millions are starving because humanity can;t seem to be bothered to come up with a fairer wealth distribution scheme. Then there's positive feedback loops like tundral methane warming and releasing their gas to the atmosphere further speeding warmin, as well as teh decrease in albedo in arctic regions due to ice melting causing een faster warming and so even faster release of methane.

      Increased energy in the weather systems causing more chaotic and extreme weather as expected per basic physics; flooding due to same and rising sea levels; the effects of hormone-mimicking chemicals in the pollution we cause; ozone depletion has become a thing again, worryingly; Earth's magnetic field looking set for a reversal "sometime soon" - and whilst that may be centuries off, the field is becoming more chaotic and weakening; Kessler syndrome an increasing possibility due to fuckwits playing willy-waving in space, increasing the chances of useful sattelites getting knocked out (and yes, i know earth observation sats tend to be in GEO not LEO, but if you think they're entirely safe up in GEO, think again) - ie: were; potentially crippling useful tech that may help us deal with the effects of the aforementioned.. Not sure whether to include the possibility of another Carrington event killing most modern electrical/electronic tech as frankly, it looks to me as if our civilisation isn't likely to be around long enough to witness another such.

      5G? Nah, I'm not worried about it. Wouldn't be surprised if it essentially doesn't happen!

      Sigh. And an otherwise rational friend of mine is still adamantly against nuclear power, even modern thorium reactors, "because nuclear", even though she understands that we aren't likely to create enough "clean" energy to meet our needs.

      Right. Back to watching silly cute cat videos for me - whilst I still can.

    2. Jamie Jones Silver badge

      Re: How brainwashed have the majority of you become??

      A whole bunch of you registered on this site yesterday to post anti 5G comments.

      Either you are all the same person, or this article has been posted on some forum.

      In the interests of transparency and fair-play, please tell us which, and if the latter, the address of the site you've come from.

      Cheers

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: How brainwashed have the majority of you become??

        "A whole bunch of you registered on this site yesterday"

        Happens every time ElReg publishes an article that's contentious. There is a sub-set of the population which thinks that if they repeat their side of an issue loud enough, long enough, and in as many places as possible, it will come true.

        Sounds like religion to me ...

    3. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

      Re: How brainwashed have the majority of you become??

      I didn't read very far, but let me pick you up on the very first thing you claim:

      Every cell in our body communicates by small electrical signals

      This is incorrect. Electrical impulses are only used by nerve cells, and then, only internally. Inter-cellular communication betwen neurons is done chemically, which is why the word neurotransmitter exists.

      It appals me that there seem to be so may posters on here that think that the vaguest mis-remembered passing knowledge of something scientific qualifies them to spout off long tirades that are simply put, very wrong. We live in an age where access to knowledge is more available than ever. When I was growing up, we had to learn stuff from text books, but now it seems that the ability to critically judge the difference between information and bullshit is gone, and the same weight is given to conspiracy nutjobs on twitter as it is to peer-reviewed scientific journals, which are all available online, often free of charge.

      1. finlaythethinker

        Re: How brainwashed have the majority of you become??

        Your knowledge obviously requires an immediate upgrade. ALL human cells interact by way of small electrical signals between them. Read this link:

        http://jonlieffmd.com/blog/the-remarkable-language-of-cells

        Of course there are many other sources you may read which negate your very false assumption.. Referring to such knowledge as "bullshit" just indicates how ignorant you really are.

    4. steve 124

      Re: How brainwashed have the majority of you become??

      The responses you got were 99% by millennials who wouldn't give up their mobile devices even if they actually melted their skin every time they used them. That generation is doomed to very terrible middle aged health crisis and they won't listen to anyone trying to warn them. I'm almost 50 so at this point, the most it'll do is take 5-10 years from my old age. These chumps however, are going to be dropping like flies by the time they are my age.

      Let's hope the word gets out before the next generation also exchanges their lifespan for their twitter page.

    5. untrdr

      Re: How brainwashed have the majority of you become??

      "Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were knowledgeable enough to keep their children away from wireless devices."

      Gates also keeps his kids away from vaccines, but that's another topic...

      "I live in Canada"

      TORONTO, Canada—Although 5G, or fifth generation wireless technology, promises faster download speeds and conveniences that most of us have never dreamed of, we’ll also be blanketed with a new type of radiation called “millimeter waves,” according to health experts who warn of the rising risks associated with the rollout of 5G... Scientists from 42 countries are warning their governments about the emerging health problems associated with wireless radiation, and Canadian doctors and scientists have added their concerns... Dr. Anthony Miller, an advisor to the World Health Organization said there’s now enough evidence that if they were to re-evaluate radiofrequency (RF) radiation, it would be labeled as carcinogenic to humans.

      https://www.ntd.com/doctors-call-for-delaying-deployment-of-5g-due-to-health-risks_339335.html

      Also Lloyds Insurance Group refuses to offer cover for 'wifi related illnesses'.

      And France has banned wifi in all schools up to the age of 12. Wifi is only to be used as and when needed for a particular lesson and must be then turned off.

  50. Jove Bronze badge

    Industry sourced and quoted statistics ...

    Scenario: Place 1,500 people in a set of six steel-framed boxes moving through a densely populated urban area at about 45 miles per hour for 23 minutes. Recalculate effects of multiple devices switching between cells, factor in scenario being repeated 10 times a week.

    Does anyone know of any analysis of such (I am guessing this is not applicable to Wales though)?

  51. Jamie Jones Silver badge

    Greetings from sunny Gower!

    " The Gower is well known for its pleasant views across the Bristol Channel and its sandy, family-friendly beaches. Until today, it was not known as a hotbed of Luddite views."

    I'm South Gower born and raised, and am only posting here to further our campaign of shutting down the internet by driving you all offline. Why else do you think I always post such bollocks?

  52. Loatesy

    My question is about the dangerous amounts of hydrogen and oxygen which we are exposed to every . .single . day!!! It is well known hydrogen and oxygen when mixed together explode causing death and destruction all around us, yet we are encouraged to ingest these elements it all the time IN CONCENTRATED AMOUNTS in liquid form . . . . supermarkets even sell it in BOTTLES!!!!!

    We are even told we should have these substances piped into our homes!!

    Does this government have ANY THOUGHT for the blatant and callous disregard for life being demonstrated here by these so called "Water" companies?

  53. Denarius
    Joke

    Please, stop them

    You Poms must get your MPs educated or under control. Otherwise we Aussies will not have claims to Worlds Greatest Luddite.

    ScoMos mob are showing signs of being as thick as TalkBull and his predecessors

  54. tapemonkey

    Wales where men are men sheep are worried and politicians are thicker than pig shit

  55. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Its not like we have had serious radiation leaks all over the world OR created other nasty things.

    5G or not, we still have a lot of other major possible causes for our current situation on the earth other than just CO2 emissions or Radio signals.

    We (as a race) still set off nuclear ordinance as a fairly regular thing, then there is Chernobyl, Fukushima Daiichi and Sellafield, then there is the total failure of most countries (USA in particular) with dealing with radioactive waste. the radiation and heat from that even stored or set off underground may actually be having an impact too.

    Since we first harnessed that sort of power, be it for energy and the good of mankind or for the eradication of mankind (depending on point of view) we have been noticing increases in cancers and other such things around the world, any possibility that might be a cause? probably but who knows, we as always are only guessing on the range of effect.

    The spike in health issues could correlate to that quite easily, but it could be that we have had an increase in population across the world combined with global communication.

    With modern medicine prolonging life beyond what it once was, it does make sense that what would have originally killed you at 40 not being around would mean something else would turn up to terminate the subject and that information would then be documented and put on some form of statistical analytics.

    It doesn't matter what scientific research you use to argue your side of any of these cases, there will always be a counter to that somewhere. Be it slightly inaccurate, totally false or bang on the money.

    We all have to remember in the last 200 years we have gone from pigeon to twitter in terms of mass communications alone.

    The ability to harness technology has been our boon, but it could also be our own Kryptonite but we just don't know yet.

    The likelihood we will ever know what causes the end of us is near zero, because by the time someone figures it out...well, by then its probably far too late to stop it, whatever it is.

    So we may as well enjoy life, however we currently do. Even if its randomly spouting diatribes that go on forever on a message board on The Register or sitting by a pool enjoying the sunshine sipping a margarita.

  56. Evil_Tom

    Carcinogenic?

    This reminds me a little of the GreenPeace anti fracking paper that stated that the fracking companies were pumping carcinogenic chemicals into the ground with water to fracture the rocks and increase pressure to release the oil and gas.

    It turned out that the "carcinogenic chemicals" were sand... because there is some paper somewhere that states that silicates and silicon dioxide can cause cancer... if inhaled in high enough quantities and over a longer period of time. That's probably true... but the objectors would have to also note that sitting on a beach is also carcinogenic... of course that even ignores the carcinogenic EM radiation you're exposing yourself to.

    As usual... context is key.

    Notes: I'm neither for nor against fracking - they could potentially use OTHER chemicals, but the case was only about sand.

    1. finlaythethinker

      Re: Carcinogenic?

      Wow, another ignorant idiot. Such people as you really should learn some real facts before making such ignorant comments.

      Why don't you learn that fracking requires many chemicals plus sand and water to work? By high pressure injection of sand and chemicals diluted with water into shale formations, the shale is ruptured creating new interstices allowing the sand particles to enter these gaps, holding them open and allowing natural gases to be released. Side effects can include mini earthquakes and unwanted environmental pollution of once clean water. As sand normally constitutes about 5% of the fracking fluid mix, you should be aware that the "carcinogenic chemicals" are NOT THE SAND as you think, but the addition of hundreds of chemicals many of which ARE VERY TOXIC and have proven harmful to the environment. Most of the companies doing the fracking will not disclose the toxic chemicals they use.

  57. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    This article is too flippant.

    I ’d like to draw your attention to Dr. Martin L. Pall, PhD and Professor Emeritus of Biochemistry and Basic Medical Sciences at Washington State University. Taken from his report titled “5G: Great risk for EU, U.S. and International Health! Compelling Evidence for Eight Distinct Types of Great Harm Caused by Electromagnetic Field(EMF) Exposures and the Mechanism that Causes Them,” he states that:

    “Putting in tens of millions of 5G antennae without a single biological test of safety has got to be about the stupidest idea anyone has had in the history of the world.”

    Yes, we can say that the peak power and frequencies used for 2g,3g,4g have not caused significant effects. However, 5g proposes far different frequencies, power, and pulse repetition rates. There are thresholds at which cellular changes happen.

    You might like to start here:

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935118300355

  58. AnoniMouse

    This whole topic is mired by pseudo science - on both sides

    Higher frequency does not necessarily entail potentially more damaging effects to living matter. Animal life on earth evolved in an environment continually bathed in electromagnetic radiation whose frequencies range from several hundred GHz upwards: sunlight.

    Proper assessment of 5G technology and any risks it may pose, enabling informed debate about whether those risks are acceptable (remembering that NOTHING is completely "safe" - ask Edwina).

    Trading emotive opinions and cherry-picking snippets of scientific research (mis-)quoted out of context will not help humankind to investigate the 5G opportunity AND mitigate its potential risks.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This whole topic is mired by pseudo science - on both sides

      "remembering that NOTHING is completely "safe" - ask Edwina"

      Two years later (1990) John Gummer - then the Minister for Agriculture in that government - publically fed his daughter a hamburger before the potential transmission path of human CJD from BSE (mad cow) disease was fully realised.

      Evaluation of comparative risks is often difficult. The human mind is prone to confirmation bias. People also often choose to fear the least probable risk - while ignoring a much more probable one.

  59. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "[...] remember that animals do not use screens"

    Animals are apparently happy to use touch screens when given the chance.

  60. untrdr

    'At currently proposed 5G power levels, satellites may have trouble reading natural signals given off by water vapor. That could set back forecast accuracy to levels last seen around 1980, said Neil Jacobs, head of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

    “This would result in the reduction of hurricane track forecast lead time by roughly two to three days,” Jacobs told Congress at a hearing earlier this month.

    The issue has split the Trump administration, with Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, whose agency includes NOAA, warning that critical Earth-science data could be lost. Even the Navy has expressed misgivings. The U.S. Federal Communications Commission, however, went ahead with an auction of spectrum in its drive to advance 5G communications.”

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/storm-tracking-could-casualty-5g-080000132.html

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