back to article Where there's a will, there's Huawei: US govt already eases trade ban with 90-day reprieve

The US government on Monday gave Huawei temporary permission to obtain technology from American organizations so that the Chinese giant can continue to maintain and repair existing deployments of its products around the world, and push US-sourced software updates to people's phones. Last week, Uncle Sam banned Huawei and …

  1. Shadow Systems Silver badge

    You know who else isn't acting in Americas best interest?

    I'll give you a hint, he's depicted as having orange hair, a fetish for Twitter posts, & for fucking over the country on a whim...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: You know who else isn't acting in Americas best interest?

      Now now, he's acting in the best interest of the shirtless guy on horseback who paid for his election.

      1. Chris G Silver badge

        Re: You know who else isn't acting in Americas best interest?

        I would be very interested in an explanation and description of what the jaffa had done for Putin lately.

        Is thid action against Huawei going to significantly increase Russia's world smart phone sales?

        Trump has had two years to begin paying back for his election support from Russia and from where I sit he appears to be an ungrateful sod.

        Whether or not you like either one of them, it doesn't look like they're buddies so give it a rest on that one.

        My opinion is Trump got in because some of the movers and groovers could see someone they could manipulate to improve their fortunes.

        Arguably, Hilary gavehim the most help simply by being so toxic.

        1. Roo
          Windows

          Re: You know who else isn't acting in Americas best interest?

          "I would be very interested in an explanation and description of what the jaffa had done for Putin lately."

          In fairness it's hard to tell when Trump has been busy destroying every record of communication between himself & Putin. But there is a nice fat money trail and a few instances of Trump deciding to exchange classified information with Russia on a whim - the sort of thing that folks get locked up for many years normally.

          Withdrawing from Syria and repeated vetoing any action on Ukraine were two pretty big favours to Vlad. Tearing up the nuke treaty also helps Vlad too, as the classes of weapon affected just happen to be the ones that Russia has expended the most effort developing - and the ones that fit their strategic needs far better.

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: You know who else isn't acting in Americas best interest?

          It looks very much as if he's doing a good job of disrupting the US and, as far as he can, the Chinese economies. I'd say from Putin's PoV it's a good ROI.

        3. Claverhouse Bronze badge

          Re: You know who else isn't acting in Americas best interest?

          Exactly. Particularly regarding the grossness of Hillary.

          1. Shadow Systems Silver badge

            At Claverhouse, re: the grossness of Hillary.

            Would you rather see Trump or Hillary naked? If you answer "Trump" then you're even more twisted than *I* am. =-D

            And now that you've got those visuals stuck in your brain, I'm stealing the MindBleach & running away laughing "What has been seen cannot be unseen!" =-D

            (No, it can't, but you can try to drown it. Here, have a pint on me to start the process...)

      2. jgarbo
        Windows

        Re: You know who else isn't acting in Americas best interest?

        You mean the old, senile WASPs in the back rooms of their country clubs at the Hamptons worried about their MIC dividend payments.

        1. Claverhouse Bronze badge

          Re: You know who else isn't acting in Americas best interest?

          Kinda amusing you stereotypically consider America to be dominated by WASPs: they were turfed out of Wall Street, the Universities, the Legal profession and the Supreme Court decades ago.

      3. Shadow Systems Silver badge

        Shirtless guy on horseback...

        Boris the Cockroach? Bombastic Bob? AMFM? Inventor of the Marmite Laser? Zippy's Sausage Factory? Mr. WhoopsWhere'sMyThribble?

        =-)P

        OH! You meant Boris Yeltzin? But I thought she only posed topless for selfies she then posted to PeopleOfWalmart.com?

        *COUGH*

        I'll get my coat, it's the one with the pockets full of sarcasm...

  2. Phil Kingston Silver badge

    "Huawei has been determined by the US government to be acting contrary to the national security or foreign policy interests of the United States".

    More bluster. Is it correct that there's been no actual proof of either of those things?

    I mean, China may not have much to complain about when considering what they ban within their own territory, but at least they don't pretend to be all about freedom etc.

    1. MogKupo

      There is no proof

      What 'proof' they have provided is laughable (like the presence of a telnetd for local admin on some of their router equipment, like what hasn't got that?)

      I have a Huawei P10 myself, I will be most displeased if that toddler in the Whitehouse exposes me to malware on my phone because Huawei no longer have early access to the security patches.

      1. Joe W

        Pure protectionism. They tried to blackmail other countries to stop using Huawei equipment, and that did not work. So now, by rendering the products unfit for purpose (cut off from updates, spare parts...), they effectively force others to replace equipment - and of course they hope the replacement will be US-made.

        1. Pete4000uk

          US made

          Like Apple phones???

          1. Joe W

            Re: US made

            Huawei is more than just phones. Think 5G, think networking equipment.

        2. LDS Silver badge

          "and of course they hope the replacement will be US-made."

          More probably made in Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, India, Mexico....

        3. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge
          Trollface

          United Sales of America

    2. jgarbo

      The American "disease" - dirty sex, foreign influence - their own sinful traits. Disgusting rabble.

  3. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Stop

    Around the world ? Really ?

    "The US government on Monday gave Huawei temporary permission to obtain technology from American organizations so that the Chinese giant can continue to maintain and repair existing deployments of its products around the world" in America.

    Please do not give further attention to the American tendancy of believing that it decides what happens for the entire world with its government policies.

    1. LDS Silver badge

      Re: Around the world ? Really ?

      If they can't source parts US can somehow control they obviously can't use them worldwide - unless they can replace them with something else not under US control.

      For example Infineon (German) has denied it stopped too to supply parts to Huawei. STMicroelectronics (French-Italian) said nothing - although expect US pressure on them.

      Some parts may be hard to replace, though.

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Around the world ? Really ?

        >If they can't source parts US can somehow control they obviously can't use them worldwide - unless they can replace them with something else not under US control.

        ...

        Some parts may be hard to replace, though.

        The only parts that will be hard to replace will be those actually manufactured in the USA; for any US parts manufactured in China there will be an assured supply of white label variants...

    2. Nick Kew Silver badge

      Re: Around the world ? Really ?

      Erm, but it does. And we reinforce that by failing to stand up to them. Who in the West has really taken any significant stand against them since Vietnam? Even then it was their own people, not their sycophantic allies.

    3. Jemma Silver badge

      Re: Around the world ? Really ?

      Pascal,

      I couldn't give you enough upvotes for that comment if I spent the next 10 years doing nothing but giving you upvotes.

      Ironic isn't it - Lincoln the talented politician gets assassinated and the utterly clueless Orange Shitgibbon is still upright and breathing. I think history got things the wrong way round.

      1. Dave K Silver badge

        Re: Around the world ? Really ?

        You had me with "Orange Shitgibbon".

        Another good one to add to the list of Trump synonyms, thanks!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Around the world ? Really ?

          I believe it may be a reference to the Liverpool Irish Fitzgibbon crime family, who were sent down in 2013 for drug offences.

        2. Cederic Bronze badge

          Re: Around the world ? Really ?

          Nice of you to admit your racism in public.

          Perhaps when you grow up you'll be able to avoid mocking people for the colour of their skin.

          1. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: Around the world ? Really ?

            >Perhaps when you grow up you'll be able to avoid mocking people for the colour of their skin.

            I didn't realise mocking people for their poor quality (out of a bottle or machine) fake tan was racist...

            Mind you at the college in Leicester a niece attends everything is 'racist' ie. the phrase "thats racist" is used to mean "I don't agree".

      2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: Around the world ? Really ?

        is still upright and breathing

        Largely (I suspect) because the prospect of Pence taking over is too awful even for the hardened fanatic to contemplate..

        Plus the fact that pretty much all the US domestic terrorists are right-wingers and probably love Trump.

    4. Anonymous Coward Silver badge
      Paris Hilton

      Re: Around the world ? Really ?

      If google aren't allowed to give them access to security updates for both Android and any installed third-party apps (via the play store), how are they supposed to access those updates to deploy elsewhere in the world?

      OK, they can develop their own store and replicate the process. Provided the third-party developers cooperate. They're going down this route, but it's not a drop-in fix right now.

      In general I agree with you - Americans tend to think that 'worldwide' means everywhere in their continent, but in this case they're actually using it correctly.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Around the world ? Really ?

      Yes, it affects almost every other company in the world that also wants to have access to the US market or US suppliers.

      And then you can see how far reaching these policies are. Imagine living in Cuba, or Venezuela, or Syria, or Iran... You are simply unable to do business companies (US or foreign) that do business in the US, to buy basic technology, to buy drugs, ... And then the US government will tell you how terribly bad these foreign governments are for making their people live in extreme poverty.

      The hypocrisy is astounding. As is the ignorance of people like you who don't understand how an economic blockade affects people who live in countries banned by the US govt. from doing business with companies that also do business in the US.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Around the world ? Really ?

        The US is at war with numerous countries around the globe. That they aren't physical is irrelevant.

        The US is in the business of destroying nations.

  4. Ben1892
    Facepalm

    Suddenly realises it will affect US supplier profits...

    ...if only that one had been thought through, erm soz; Qualcomm, Skyworks, Qorvo, Xilinx and Micron Technologies - profits are going to be down a bit but we'll give you a chance to oversell inventories for a while to make up for it.

  5. Threlkeld

    Not smart

    Google will not be pleased about this. Five years down the line Android could be facing powerful international competition in a field where at present it holds a comfortable hegemony. If Huawi is forced to replace the operating system on its phones and duplicate Apps and the App store, then that is what it will do. And there is good reason to think it might do it better. There are about a billion reasons why it might, and I can't right now of anything that would stop it,

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not smart

      This whole thing seems to be about protecting Apple, not the US. It attacks both Huawei and Google, and by extension discourages Android manufacturers abroad. One assumes someone in the Administration has an awful lot of Apple shares.

      Of course, if China announces that in 3 months there will be an export ban on iPhones, it could get interesting.

      1. Jemma Silver badge

        Re: Apple shares

        There is another option what with Tim Nice but Dim popping into the White House - wouldn't be the first time a president played for both teams..

        Aagghh the images of the possibilities. Brain bleach! Brain bleach! If any political pundit uses the words pegged or pegging - I will *so* not be able to control myself.

        On the upside we can call him the Orange Twinkgibbon.

        "I thought blowing the Horn of Gondor was supposed to summon Armies of the West. Apparently not. Very educational, all the same" LOTR secret diaries.

      2. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Not smart

        >This whole thing seems to be about protecting Apple

        I initially thought you were forgetting that stalwart Motorola, then remembered they were now part of Lenovo...

      3. Chet Mannly

        Re: Not smart

        "This whole thing seems to be about protecting Apple"

        China could easily ban iphones etc - that would smash Apple's sales and share price.

        There's reports that some people in China are dumping their iphones and buying Huaweis.

    2. LDS Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Not smart

      Maybe is a move to keep Chinese hackers busy writing OS pieces and apps....

    3. Nick Kew Silver badge

      Re: Not smart

      Indeedie. An ecosystem like Android only works if participants can rely on being treated fairly.

      Perhaps the best thing Google can do now is to hand over a lot more Android to an Open Source foundation independent of Google itself. Sufficient to run a tablet or phone without the need to enter a business relationship with a US corporation. So a vendor like Huawei (or Samsung, or Motorola, or ...) becomes to Android as a distro is to core Linux.

      That is, if such a move isn't itself sanction-busting in the crazy world of today.

      1. Rameses Niblick the Third Kerplunk Kerplunk Whoops Where's My Thribble? Silver badge

        Re: Not smart

        From what I understand from previous readings is that Huawei already do use the open source version of Android for it's Chinese phones due to the Google ban in China. This represent roughly half of it sales of phones, so they already have experience in this area. The trick is to convince the rest of the world (apart from the US, natch) that their version of Android is just as good as the Google version.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Not smart

          The trick is to develop and deploy adequate replacements for Android apps in local languages. Presumably Facebook will be told not to connect to the Chinese Facebook client, but with the pressure on Facebook already, they may resist that for fear that foreign competition might gain traction.

          Replacing Chrome is easy; Gmail will block any mail client that doesn't meet its security standards (ahem), but that could result in losing even more business. China could, after all, put much heavier funding into companies like Protonmail, outside China itself of course.

          I think Trump has actually started WW3, but at the moment it's a trade and information war. Meanwhile Turkey is refusing to back down on having an independent missile defence system and the other NATO countries are walking away from some US exercises, so some interesting lines are going to be drawn.

          Except for the UK, because we know whose bottom the government is going to lick. The future is dystopic, the future is orange.

          1. Julz

            Re: Not smart

            Are you suggesting the world has been Tangoed?

        2. Chet Mannly

          Re: Not smart

          Yes, but it is always possible to install all the Google apps on those phones once you buy them.

          I know a guy who imports these phones as they are way cheaper, and just installs the google apps for customers on the spot. Takes about 30 seconds.

          I have a Huawei and find the Android runs well, much better than the Samsung I had before it (but that may be because it has far less bloatware...)

    4. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge

      Re: Not smart

      I watched an episode of The Grand Tour where they showed how good the Chinese were at putting up roads/motorways, even over difficult terrain.

      In comparison the rest of the World is the equivalent of the typical British builder (i.e. all the equipment is laid out and the workers are off having a tea-break somewhere).

      Not sure their (Chinese) employment methods are anything to shout about, but it obviously gets results.

      The only thing that can take China down now is for someone to somehow enforce proper H&S rules on them, which ironically is what has arguably crippled Western economies.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not smart

        "arguably crippled Western economies".

        No, they haven't. This whole anti-regulation thing is a Brexiter myth.

        1. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge

          Re: Not smart

          Tell that to our farming and fishing industries - well, what's left of them.

          1. Claverhouse Bronze badge

            Re: Not smart

            You mean farmers and fishermen take frequent tea-breaks from laziness ?

          2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

            Re: Not smart

            Britain was busy overfishing its fisheries before it joined the common market. Farming subsidies are a mess everywhere: in the US handouts destined for soya bean farmers hit by the trade war are making their way into the pockets of multinational corporations. Who'dve thought it?

            With regards to the CAP, which is a mess: avowed government policy is to keep things as they are once the UK has left the EU, that is screw small farmers by giving more to agrocorps. Given the tiny number of total farmers and fishermen I can't see that changing any time soon.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Not smart

            The UK fishing industry is irrelevant. There are less than 12,000 fishermen.

            What is more relevant is how fishing quotas are controlled by so few people: Greenpeace report.

          4. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

            Re: Not smart

            farming and fishing industries

            There are many reasons for the decline of those industries (environmental, over-supply, depletion of fish stocks[1], Government subsidies etc etc) but over-regulation isn't one.

            For example, the fishing regulations (which are by no menas perfect otherwise you wouldn't have the obscenity of dumping dead fish that were not in quota - the law was written by lawyers and politicians who didn't seem to realise that fishing is complex and, when you put the nets out, you'll catch everything that's too big to get through the mesh even if it's the 'wrong' species) were over-complex, and written to try to be all things to all people. And counties that (try to) play to the rules get shafted. But those regulations *had* to be introduced because the fishing industry (as a whole) paid only lip-service to conserving fish stocks despite the huge decline in available fish. So Governments were forced to put in rules to ensure that fish stocks continued to exist.

            It was another classic case of an industry failing to regulate itself and being forced to do so by Government. And like most such cases it wasn't done in a particularly good way.

            As to farming - what's killing the farming industry is that it's cheaper to grow food that glows in the dark because of the chemicals used in a country where the average wage (and living cost) is 1/10th of here. Even with shipping costs that means the end-user price is a fraction of our costs.

            So blame the food companies, supermarkets [2] and the public who all want their food to be as cheap as possible without thinking about what the cheap food means for our farmers or the environment.

            [1] For example - the decline of Atlantic cod was pretty close to the final collapse of the species from overfishing - especially since the nets were catching fish before they could get to breeding size and age. Which forced the regulations on net mesh size.

            [2] Especially the supermarkets who wield a vastly disproportionate amount of power over the supply chain because of their size. And, to no-one's suprise, they apply no ethics or morals in the methods they use to prop up their market position and profits - including shafting farmers since there's always someone else that's prepared to take over when yet another farmer commits suicide because the supermarkets have driven them into penury. Yes, I had a friend who was a dairy farmer that this happened to - he was given a milk supply contract that (initially) made a small profit. The price paid to him was then cut by 20% (the supermarkets attitude was "take it or we won't buy from you"). He faced the loss of everything he had worked for for the last 30 years and it broke him. To this day, I will never, never do business with that supermarket.

      2. Ben1892

        Re: Not smart

        "I watched an episode of The Grand Tour where they showed how good the Chinese were at putting up roads/motorways, even over difficult terrain. In comparison the rest of the World ..."

        Erm, easy when nobody owns the land apart from the Party and anyone in the way gets told to move - I'm sure that would work here just fine, no protests or riots or anything. Nothing to do with Health and Safety, everything to do with you plowing through my family semi that's in the way of HS2

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Not smart

          I think a lot of people in West London (Heathrow 3) and along the proposed route of H2S would take some issue with you if you think we are so much better.

          Rich people get large amounts of compensation, poor people not so much. It makes little difference in the long run if the culprit is the Party or large developers in bed with politicians.

          1. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: Not smart

            >I'm sure that would work here just fine

            >I think a lot of people in West London (Heathrow 3) and along the proposed route of H2S would take some issue with you if you think we are so much better.

            Well it pretty much was how it was like when the railways were being built, circa 200 years back, although the land wasn't owned by the party but wealthly landowners - hence why the rails take some 'interesting' detours and stations aren't located where you might expect. It was the ripping up of N.London/Camden that lead to the introduction of the planning laws and compensation.

            What I've not been able to determine is the events and when, that land that belonged to the crown, which was given out (and taken back) in grace and favour transactions, ceased being the property of the crown, and thus became the property of the last person granted a favour.

      3. Joe 37

        Re: Not smart

        I watched an episode of The Grand Tour where they showed how good the Chinese were at putting up roads/motorways, even over difficult terrain.

        But have you ever driven on one of those roads. I have done many thousands of miles on one. The potholes big enough to swallow a double decker bus are a hint to the quality.

        On the Central African plateau routing a road due East-West may not have been the best idea either.

    5. hellsatan

      Re: Not smart

      Indeed, and Mr Trumpy has literally just fired off a banger proclaiming to the entire world that American technology and services cannot be relied upon, as they can be instantly pulled at the whim of a madman.

      I'm visualising executives universally facepalming in every major US tech biz

  6. mark l 2 Silver badge

    This sort of dickish move by Trump hurts the American business just as much as it does Huawei. Huawei will be now be looking to source components from elsewhere or making home grown ones. And by the time the ban is lifted they will not be dependant on US manufacturers anymore for services or parts.

    I can already see that there will probably be a good aftersales market for custom ROMs with Gapps installed for Huawei phones which identify themselves as a Samsung or Motorola to get around the ban.

    1. Sir Runcible Spoon Silver badge

      This situation has been inevitable for some time. The Chinese only ever rely on Western supplies until they get their own production set up. 20 years ago their cars were abysmal rip-offs, now they are starting to pull ahead in terms of development - no mean feat when it's China vs. World.

      Pushing the situation to the brink before China has its own FAB's set up to meet their demand is just a way to put them on the back foot, but it's only a jab, not an uppercut.

      China will adapt much faster than the West will to new trade scenario's because they aren't bound up in red tape (no pun intended).

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Think of all the fabs in Taiwan.

        In disputed Taiwan that China wants back.

        Who are companies like TSMC going to work for when push really comes to shove? Apple, or the king just over the water?

        Someone should have tried to draw some crayon pictures of how the industry works for Trump. It isn't like getting an hotel built. You don't just raise the funding, pay off the local mafia and hire builders.

        1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          You don't just raise the funding, pay off the local mafia and hire builders.

          You forgot the final stage of going bankrupt..

    2. Chet Mannly

      Don't even need roms - you can just install Google apps like any APK.

      And it doesn't matter if it identifies as a Huawei - the ban prevents Google from providing Google apps to Huawei, not ordinary punters who own the phones...

  7. Porco Rosso
    Pirate

    Captain Stephen on its ship to resceu Huawei

    They should hire Mister Elop as ceo

    He has a superb skill and leadership to do that job.

  8. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Back in the day we used to have second sourcing. It would be difficult to sell a component unless it could be obtained elsewhere in case the primary supplier were to be unable to supply (e.g. being hit with an earthquake or finding itself in a rogue state). That seems to have fallen by the wayside but this sort of thing could bring it back into play. In a few years time - or maybe even less - it might be impossible for a US manufacturer to sell components abroad without sharing sales with a second source outside of US jurisdiction.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      The problem is that once you got beyond commodity things like RAM and multi-sourced microcontrollers, there's too much proprietary technology for second sources. Unless Trump finally does what he really wants and collapses the WTO, no US manufacturer can second source components outside US jurisdiction.

      Samsung hedges its bets outside the US with its Exynos processors, but they are not a drop in replacement for Qualcomm.

      The really interesting thing is this: the US represents about 5% of the world population, but a lot more by economy. Even so, people rarely have more than one or two mobile phones. At some point - and this may really be what's bugging Trump et al - it may be better to walk away from the US and its empire and supply the rest of the world completely independently, leaving the US with Apple.

      That isn't that dissimilar to what happened to the car industry, where large, outdated, poor quality cars become the norm as the protected US market was basically ignored.

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        >The really interesting thing is this: the US represents about 5% of the world population, but a lot more by economy.

        However, with the rise of the BRIC economies and other factors the US share of the global economy has nose dived over the last few decades, whereas in comparison the Chinese economy has gone from near zero to challenging the former no.1 economy...

  9. Mystic Megabyte Silver badge
    FAIL

    BBC

    The BBC have piece on this. Very simply showing how the USA will lose a lot of business.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48345509

  10. el kabong

    An effort to stave off change, protectionism, dirty tactics, it will not work as expected.

    Some in america are beginning to panic, trump's decision to ban Huawei marks the end of an era, it is a landmark.

    Finding it harder and harder to compete with your nimbler and much more talented rivals, find it difficult to pit your inferior products against those of your rivals? Play dirty. Doesn't seem to work the way you'd like it to work? Play even dirtier.

    Quite often things like this end in a bad way, in a bad bad way. Unintended consequences start playing and then... sometimes empires fall, get replaced.

    That's the way it is, starts slow, gains momentum, and then...

  11. Ljugtomten

    I would not be surprised at all, if this trade block for Huawei stems from daddy Donald contacting them regarding backdoor access to devices on behalf of other three letter agencies and getting laughed at.

    Domestic vendors (Fruitphone, Crisco and so on) may not be allowed to say anything, but I trust them about as much as Bookface to keep my data secure and to not share information with anyone.

  12. Jemma Silver badge

    The Orange Shitgibbon isn't the scary part, neither are the Chinese. No, the scary part is Putin. He's a nutcase and a psychopath and the only people he hates more than the Chinese are the British and the Inbredistanis in that order. Why? Because he will never forget nor forgive the Oleg Gordievsky operation. I seriously wouldn't put it past him to go after both sides (us included) if Darth Stupidus gets another term in office. And he's just the sort of nutter to be out in a noddy suit with a backpack sprayer full of Novichok for the shits & giggles. He's the Christopher Pelant of international politics..

    *for some reason I envisage this delivered by Red Octobers Jeffrey Pelt.

    1. Claverhouse Bronze badge

      The Daily Mail agrees with you.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      No, Jemma, Putin is neither a nutcase nor a psychopath as you would know if you actually followed what he says.

      I have to post this from time to time because people don't seem to know, but the country Putin is extremely anti is the US. That's because in the 1990s they used the collapse of the Soviet Union and the arrival of Yeltsin to move in, forge alliances with the nomenklatura, and loot the country. In 1996 they helped get Yeltsin re-elected and boasted about it. In 1998 the ruble collapsed and people lost their entire savings, just as people did in Germany in the 1920s. Whether you're a babushka on an inadequate pension or your children having to help her financially, you hate the US. Fortunately, the RF got Putin rather than Hitler II. He is not nice. Nor was Churchill (look him up).

      I suspect he rarely gives the UK much attention except to wonder what to do about the kleptarchs who fled here when he started trying to get the loot back and were fast tracked into citizenship (a few large donations to the Conservatives did no harm).

      From what I can see, the Russian government wants to do the US down. If they did affect the US election and got Trump, that was a small victory for them.

      The point is, I think Putin is a sane actor who has got a lot of what he wanted in Syria, and who can be negotiated with, whereas Trump cannot be negotiated with because he has no consistency and his goals are unachievable. Even Erdogan seems a lot more rational.

      1. Jemma Silver badge

        If you think Putin is sane in the traditional sense of the word you need to examine this individual in detail.

        Yes, I will concede he appears to be merely an extremely good politician who has the Shitgibbon and the Twiglet completely outclassed (please not Smeagol Gove), which doesn't exactly take a Korolev to work out. But that is the public persona.

        The man is ex high ranking KGB and if I remember rightly he was kicking around with a gent called Suslov. Suslov was a deeply scary "puppet master" type who even controlled people like Andropov and others in the background.

        He has stated that he is still communist and some say Stalinist in outlook. He has access to every single toy the various directorates came up with and every thing since. He has already deployed "newcomer" in the UK - in public no less - and if you believe the "rogue actors" line here's another fine quote "peace in our time".

        If Putin Inc did bias the US election to get the Shitgibbon in - there will be an ulterior motive. I think it's the following;

        Putin knows the Shitgibbon is as thick as the big print version of the collective Shakespeare. He knows he's a sociopathic racist and bigot. He also knows that the Shitgibbon hates communism. Putin doesn't hate communism - but it must really grind his gears that the Chinese have "succeeded" and he hates USA and UK (many reasons for the latter, not least Gordievsky, Alibek et al). So he's got everything he wants - so far. The Inbredistanis are fighting amongst themselves in a kind of snowflake VS racist version of McCarthyism. Then there's the part where Darth Shitgibbon has managed to alienate every single ally and has thrown his toys out of the pram with China. Qui Bono? Putin. He gets to pick up the pieces in any possible situation by looking like a mature statesman (which given the competition... ) - but two example possibilities - it all goes nukey mcnukeface; Putins two biggest competitors are glow in the dark wastelands and Russia has hegemony. Second - we get to the verge of war and Putin steps in and defuses the situation (that he may well have engineered), massive political kudos and respect for Putin and by extension Russia - which means more influence for Russia and less pesky people noticing a track record on human rights that'd have Dr Dr Otto Rasch having night terrors, Russia may end up with hegemony.

        Russia have been buying up farmland in the States, UK and Europe. They already have substantial energy control. If they could mobilise the methane ices safely (for a given value of safe, anyone else remember that nuclear reactor made out of second hand Wartburgs?) in the permafrosts as a fuel resource... The whole of Europe and conceivably North Africa will be potentially in the cacky. Or how about nuking the areas with methane ice deposits - a really nasty version of the oil wells in Iraq..

        Putin is a Suslov-ite KGB man, he's also a president, but primarily he's who he was made to be. His priorities are Russia, Russia and Russia - by whatever means - acceptable to others or not. I don't know enough to say whether he'd consider himself still working under Communism or Russia-ism - but either way he is a talented and very dangerous individual - and compared to the competition he's in a whole different class. Putin is a black ops politician and the best we can do is Granny Saggy-Jowls, Smeagol Gove, Twitty Patel, Cadaver McGrath & co (feat. Cardinal Rees-Mogg) not so much black ops as "special farces". America has the Orange Shitgibbon - who couldn't be working out better for Putin. Europe doesn't know if it's coming or going because of Brexit and the retard ratio is growing exponentially.

        The clue a lot of the time is to look for what a person doesn't say in between what they do say. Putin is at his most eloquent with his mouth firmly shut. Shitgibbon on the other hand probably thinks an Eloquent is a kind of large grey coloured mammal that's partial to grass.

        The best part of this utter shitshow for Putin? Everyone is distracted - some by Shitgibbon waving his balls around.. 'helicopter!!' - some by brexit.. Some by the racist nut jobs, others by religious nut jobs and the rest are wondering how much of a greentard they'd have to be to get into Thunbergs panties.. Come back Neville Chamberlain - all is forgiven.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Great Man Theory

          Thank you for replying to my post. I'm taking your reply seriously.

          I think you overestimate Putin. There's another explanation of him which emerges from his biography.

          Putin got the job because none of the oligarchs were willing to try to put their own man in place. It would have been cats in a sack. Putin, the rather faceless bureaucrat (his job in Dresden wasn't very exciting, to say the least) had the support of the KGB. However, he has one asset possessed by very few Russian politicians: he isn't anti-Semitic due to his being befriended by an Orthodox family when he was a kid in Leningrad. As a number of the oligarchs are Jewish, this was a big asset.

          I happen to think, and it's only my view, that the oligarchs thought he would be a useful idiot president like Yeltsin but without the little water problem. Then he emerged with his suitcases, not under the bed but in secure locations, with the dirt on them; he appealed to the very powerful babushka demographic; and his biggest failure is not finding a successor. Medvedev has proven a disappointment. He seems to have a trusted inner cabinet (Lavrov being worth several megaJohnsons) that has slowly grown with the years.

          I don't think he hates the UK - as I say, our main annoyance is hosting people he regards as thieves and protecting their assets. But being accused of "threatening" the US goes down very well with his Army, KGB and Orthodox (Pravoslava) support.

          In Burgernomic terms the RF has about the economic strength of Germany, in dollar terms somewhat less than Italy. He seems to talk to Merkel as an equal. I don't think his plan is world domination. It's to hold balances. The problem is that the US thinks that's its job.

          Oh, and two things. If the "Inbredistanis" are who I think they may be, that's pretty racist terminology. And you may find the Putin - Trump link is Chabad - the "progressive Orthodox" Jewish sect strong in St Petersburg and New York. I suspect them of lending to Trump and helping Putin get elected. And in both cases the reason is the same: to support, or at least keep quiet about, Israeli settlement building.

  13. Claverhouse Bronze badge

    If America keeps doing their stupid thing, and we British keep on doing our stupid thing, we'll both be applying forever for auto-renew extensions !

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      How about we swap policies? We ban Huawei and the US doesn't join the EU.

  14. Giovani Tapini Silver badge

    I enjoyed the description of China as an "adversary"

    I believe this is a bit premature/inaccurate unless the administration has been watching videos of people playing Fallout games and mistaking it for the news...

    China for, all its faults, is a significant part of many supply chains and is clearly acceptable to many businesses. I don't like these US tactics that are increasingly simple bullying than any useful form of managing risks.

  15. DontFeedTheTrolls Silver badge
    Coat

    US: "Huawei can't work with US companies any more"

    US: "Oh shit why has everything stopped working?"

    US:"OK, Huawei, you've got 90 days to apply for a license before you can't work with US companies any more"

  16. sanmigueelbeer Silver badge

    When can I expect the next announcement from Apple that one of Trump's children has been named a member of the Board or a "brand ambassador"?

  17. Jim-234

    Short term pain for the Chinese, but long term gain.

    This will probably force the Chinese (and for that matter every other government that would like to have a choice to do what they want and not what the USA says), to seriously and quickly come up with a bottom to top supply chain for their own communications / computing technology, encompassing all the hardware, software, designs and services needed.

    So while it will hurt for a bit, there is a good chance China will actually come out ahead in the long run after they throw enough money at it to make their own decent alternatives for a lot of stuff. Perhaps the USA can up the pressure so China won't want to use Microsoft software any more (one could only hope).

    Which they can then offer to others who may not wish to be fully under USA control.

    The good news for the rest of us is one day we may be able to pick who we want spying on us instead of being stuck with it being google/NSA or Apple/NSA.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What's really going on?

    Is there a mole in the US administration peddling really bad, but plausible ideas to Trump in order get the US to implode?

  19. Yes Me Silver badge
    Go

    My crystal ball says...

    In 2 or 6 years from now, Trump will be a memory. Huawei may have a few tough years meantime, but they will come out of it stronger, and China will have vastly improved software and chip-making capabilities. So as with most Trumpian trade* policies, the result will be to make China great again.

    *The 'security' aspect is fake news, of course.

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