back to article C'mon, UK networks! Poor sods have 'paid' for their contract phones a few times over... Tell 'em about good deals

Bad luck, ISPs and networks – Brit comms regulator Ofcom has made good on its threat to make firms inform punters about better broadband, mobile, pay TV and home phone deals before their contracts expire. The new regs were originally supposed to take effect within six months but after some pushback from providers, the watchdog …

  1. MJB7 Bronze badge

    Just be grateful you aren't in Germany

    Internet + landline deals there don't have any requirement for reminders that the contract is expiring and when they do expire, they roll over to a new annual contract (usually at a higher rate because some discount is only for the first 12 months).

    1. Lee D Silver badge

      Re: Just be grateful you aren't in Germany

      Yeah. that's what normally happens in the UK.

      That's why OFCOM are acting.

      1. ARGO

        Re: Just be grateful you aren't in Germany

        I've been with all the UK mobile network operators except TMo/EE, and all moved me to a rolling monthly contract after the fixed term.

        1. BebopWeBop Silver badge

          Re: Just be grateful you aren't in Germany

          Well, Giff Gaff (OK a reseller of O2 I think) does not play that game. Monthly option to reset your contract and a recommendation base on your usage including dropping it for the following month.,

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Just be grateful you aren't in Germany

      "deals there don't have any requirement for reminders that the contract is expiring and when they do expire, they roll over to a new annual contract (usually at a higher rate because some discount is only for the first 12 months)."

      That's pretty widespread in the UK in any sector that can get away with it, not just consumer mobiles. Insurance for drivers and vehicles and homes, for example.

      I'm sure the people of Germany will be delighted to know that the joyous services of the City's masters of the marketing and financial universe are becoming more widely available outside the USA and the UK.

      1. Cuddles Silver badge

        Re: Just be grateful you aren't in Germany

        "That's pretty widespread in the UK in any sector that can get away with it, not just consumer mobiles. Insurance for drivers and vehicles and homes, for example."

        Not only is not widespread in the UK, I'm pretty sure it's illegal. Yes, they will default to giving you a new 12-month contract, but they always have to notify you that the contract is due for renewal and tell you exactly when it will happen, how much it will cost, and so on.

      2. Trollslayer Silver badge

        Re: Just be grateful you aren't in Germany

        I haven't had that with car insurance.

        Mind you I don't go for the cheap companies.

    3. Jou (Mxyzptlk)

      Re: Just be grateful you aren't in Germany

      That depends on which telco you use! My telco does give me heads up information about that. It is simply a matter of keeping a customer or losing him. In the end pure economics to be customer friendly.

      The big T is not among those telcos of course.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Just be grateful you aren't in Germany

        100% of the Telco s I've had migrated onto monthly contracts. 100% charged me only for the calltime after the handset was "paid off".

        But then again, I'm no mug/mark for these scams.

        1. Big_Boomer

          Re: Just be grateful you aren't in Germany

          Voda will continue charging you for the handset until hell freezes over. It happened to me years ago and I ditched them over that and crap service. Earlier this year I found out that they were charging my better half £13 per month for a 500 minutes, 500Mb data contract for her Nokia Asha 300 phone that had been out of contract for nearly 2 years. After and extended call to them she finally agreed on £14 per month for 3GB Data, 1000 minutes which I still feel is a ripoff as she has a SimFree Samsung J6 now, but she is happy with it.

  2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "What do you think, readers: is the nation going to hit delete or toss it out with the takeout menus like so much spam?"

    Probably the networks will hit the punters with a flood of spams first so this one just gets deleted with the rest. It'll be like surveys where you can determine what the survey answer will be by the way you lead up to the question. "Congratulations Bernard, you are the perfect balanced sample."

  3. Stork Bronze badge

    Here in Portugal we are usually phoned a bit before our bundle expires and are offered some combination that lowers the bill a little. Phones we buy from Amazon, that is always cheaper.

    If we could get a connection that was more stable and a router with housekeeping scripts I would be happy

    1. aks Bronze badge

      I've never bought a phone on contract but my Pay Monthly contract with Vodafone has just expired. They increased it by the rate of inflation (2.5%) and told me to login to their site to see what offers are currently available. So far, so good. The website describes my existing deal correctly in one place and completely wrong in another. They suggest a replacement deal that is certainly not as good as remaining on my current one. Hunting around the various offers shows ones which might interest me, but nothing yet to make me sign up for 12 months lock-in.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Check out a mobile comparison site (search with your favourite privacy eradicator for: SIM only comparison) and check out the deals on a few of the top results. You'll probably find better deals on your existing network than they will be prepared to tell you about on their own website or on the phone, and almost certainly a better deal on another network. Especially if you can stomach an MVNO SIM packaged with your broadband provider.

      2. Olivier2553 Silver badge

        Given the fact that bandwidth cost is going down faster than the inflation, there is no reason why the cost should go up (that is not exactly the same, but in Thailand, the cost for our professional internet access is going down at each contract renewal, with constant increase of bandwith tossed in to sweeten the deal).

        There is hardly any phone bundled with a SIM (it is way too easy to remove the lock anyway), and if there is, usually it is just a SIM given for free by the Telco to try to promote their service, you still buy the phone, in one go, at full price.

        And most people use pre-paid (I think that is because if you cannot reload your phone, you are not bound to spend on a monthly contract; it also makes it easier for the Telco, no need to chase for the customers that would forget to pay).

      3. Chris Parsons

        7 years ago, my Vodafone contract came to an end. They rang me and eventually offered a better deal. They emailed a new contract with my name spelled incorrectly, the wrong address and the wrong rate. When I pointed this out, they said 'just sign, we'll fix it later'...yeah, right. Now a happy GiffGaff customer.

  4. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

    Some years ago my wife was helping advise people with debts who were having trouble repaying them.

    One woman was paying £40 a month for her mobile phone. It turned out she had taken out a contract 6 years before and the bastards noble service providers had simply taken out £40 a month ever since. I worked out her bill would have been around £5 a month max on PAYG.

    Knocking off the real cost of the phone, that was over £2000 worth of overcharging someone aged 70 who had been evicted from her flat for being £480 behind with the rent.

    1. aks Bronze badge

      In my book, that's theft. Taking payment for something you're not providing.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "In my book, that's theft. Taking payment for something you're not providing."

        .... except its sold as "this is your contract, here's a free phone" so technically they're getting the £40/month service they signed up for.

        1. MrMerrymaker

          Yes, but.

          Don't defend it! It's theft.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            I don't think that is theft. It would be either be 'unfair contract terms' or, at worst, 'fraud'.

            1. BebopWeBop Silver badge
              Thumb Down

              Fraud is theft - by any other name.

      2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Taking payment for something you're not providing.

        Much like Vermin^W Virgin Media Business did with us when we cancelled a bunch of lines (mix of leased lines and DSL-Max lines) - they carried on charging us on the basis that "we hadn't instructed them to cease charging us".

        After dealing with increasing levels of manager that refused to deal with the issue we got our legal team involved.

        A couple of days later, we got a full refund of all the money taken with a fulsome apology and a promise to amend their ways if we gave them some business.

        The refund fully paid for the contractor that we had taken on to assist us with fixing the various billing issues we'd had. And our response to VMB was along the lines of "don't call us, we'll (never) call you".

    2. werdsmith Silver badge

      It's these vulnerable folk that this OFCOM is for. For the rest of us, it's really not very hard to stay on top of these transactions and regularly dish out kickings to providers who don't give value.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Yeah but guess who ends up paying more if the inert folks move to better deals. See also: electricity price cap.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So as a long term VirginMedia (getting on for 25 years since UnitedArtists first cabled the street where I lived) it will be "here's our best offer ... its what you are paying already. Oh, all those much cheaper deals you've read about are for new customers and after a year they'll paty the same as you"

    1. CountCadaver

      Virgin Mobile were charging my grandad 45p per minute on his PAYG old that it predated the requirement to register it to activate it, So we had to register his details so the system would let the CS droid generate a PAC code, even the droid commented on the pointlessness of registering to leave the network....

      Moved him to O2 PAYG and bought a new Doro feature phone - phone was £20 something and the minute charge....3p per minute any network. (his old nokia 1100 battery had finally given up the ghost and nearly all the batteries I could find to replace it were of "dubious" origin)

      Went from £20 every other week down to £10 single top up since....that was well before Xmas and still plenty of credit left over (he makes a lot of calls with his mobile as he struggles to remember phone numbers so just scrolls till he finds the name he needs)

      Very happy with the Doro - nice and easy to read even without his glasses. Not bad for someone wholly tech illiterate in his 80s so Doro must be doing something right.

      1. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

        There is an excellent Doro with an emergency button and fall detector that causes it to dial a list of people until someone answers, and send a text with the GPS location. When my father pressed it by accident a week ago, we knew he was in the Co-op. It is an extremely simple yet very effective piece of kit. It too runs on PAYG - Three in this case - and has cost a couple of pounds since January.

        1. Timmy B Silver badge

          Seems like exactly the same as us but we use Tesco. I think we've spent £7.50 so far this year....

        2. BebopWeBop Silver badge

          I bought one for my Mum (83 and a technophobe). Excellent, big display and simple to use - for £35

        3. Intractable Potsherd Silver badge

          Could you give the model of that phone, please? I have developed some health problems which have made a fall detector something useful, and I'm just at the beginning of my research.

    2. werdsmith Silver badge

      Virgin cave in to retention discounts every 12 months without fail when I call them.

      1. Lee D Silver badge

        I prefer to use companies that, as a loyal customer, I don't have to threaten to get a better deal which they could offer me at any time.

        1. werdsmith Silver badge

          Yes I heard that such a company did exist once upon a time.

          But none that offer 70 Mb/s as an entry level broadband in my area.

          1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

            offer 70 Mb/s as an entry level broadband

            It might well be a 70MB/s sync speed but I doubt very much that you actually get that data speed - especially at peak times.

            Unless (of course) you are the only house using that cabinet.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "New customers only"

          Yes, a certain well known numeric mobile operator is offering some pretty good SIM-only deals to new customers.

          But, even as an existing SIM-only customer (hence not within a contract), can I switch to any of those deals online via their website? Can I heck! All it offers me are the corresponding more expensive tariffs that were available at the time I last switched tariff. So much for loyalty!

          Since I'm going to have to phone their horrible offshore call centre (with its scuzzy call quality and quite strongly accented staff (who probably have the same difficulty understanding me)) and threaten to leave in order to haggle a better deal, I might as well just get the PAC code anyway in order to spite them.

          All of the networks endlessly fret about customer churn, yet absolutely none of them really give the slightest concern about treating existing/loyal customers fairly in order to ensure that we continue to remain as customers, it's absolutely stupid! (I should note that I am *perfectly happy* with my existing supplier, *apart* from the fact that they won't let me change to a better deal. Idiots!)

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: "New customers only"

            That's odd - you used to be able to select anything off their website and just tell them you are an existing customer during the checkout process. Presumably their IT has been upgraded since I last did that....

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: "New customers only"

              Would that not result in you taking out a new *additional* contract, rather than switch your existing tariff, though?

              I confess I haven't tried that route (I obviously really don't want to end up with two contracts, just to switch the one I am on!), but when I login to my account and go to the "change contract" section, as I said, all it offers me then are tariffs comparable/contemporary to what I am on, rather than the new, cheaper, prices.

              If the whole thing is just shit website design, even that is just as bad!

      2. BigSLitleP

        Same here. In fact they actually lowered my bill to below what i was paying as a new customer. If thet keep that up, why would i switch?

        Shame i had to put a gun to their head to get it though....

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Virgin (media) offered to lower my bill when I rang up to cancel. However I actually reduced it to a third of their price by going with a different provider. Freesat+FreeView,+broadband+phone line was a better service elsewhere and the equipment and service a lot better.

        1. defiler Silver badge

          Yeah - if you don't care about the TV channels, why bother. I know people blowing >£100 per month on their Sky subscription.

          I bailed on them over 10 years ago and went Freesat just because it was a one-off cost for the box and it plugged straight into the same dish. Now I'm Freeview (although I've gone about it a pain-in-the-arse way, to be honest, with TVHeadend).

          Have I looked back? Not in years... They did offer me a half-price sub when I went to quit them. Wasn't sure how that was supposed to stack up against "free" and I told them so.

          1. Lee D Silver badge

            RPI + tvHeadEnd + tvhClient on my phone + VLC on my laptop + Kodi on the RPi itself.

            Watch, schedule, record and playback TV from my phone abroad, in this country, at home over 4G, on a laptop/tablet over Wifi, or directly on the machine itself.

            Cost: ~£50 but less when you consider I already had bits to do it if I wanted to.

            Ongoing cost: Nothing but a TV licence.

            Happiness: A+

            Able to record/stream live TV when abroad without VPNs and faffing about: A+

            Able to keep, store and replay any particular recording as a bog-standard MP4 file indefinitely: A+

            Actually considering doing this at my employers, where we're licensed for TV usage but have no real TV... but a huge multi-gigabit network, and would only need one DVB dongle per "bouquet" of channels to receive and record EVERY channel simultaneously to as many and varied TV clients as we like.

            Would save me an awful lot of hassle when everyone wants to watch the football or Brexit debate or Budget or Royal Wedding or whatever it is that people are allowed to watch by their employer. Slap it in, forget about it, let people stream it over the local network rather than faff about organising TVs or specific streams.

            1. defiler Silver badge

              Aye, TVHeadend is great. I've run a "server" at home for years, running CentOS 6 and a Hauppage dual-tuner card (about the only thing supported on that kernel), but it also has my Squeezebox Server, movie library, personal files, databases for odds and ends, DNS/DHCP and everything else, so I've not really been able to touch it to update anything.

              Now I've got a couple of PS3 tuners hooked up to a RPi running MiniSatIP in the attic (next to my old server), putting DVB-T onto the network to be collected by a Debian VM running TVHeadend in the garage. That's distributed to all the RPis running Kodi (and my desktop running Kodi, which is much faster for updating libraries). The PS3 DVB-T boxes are dual-tuners, so I can connect to 4 multiplexes at the same time, although they're only SD. I've got some XBox One tuners for HD, but haven't had much success with them yet. I'll get another Pi to MiniSatIP those onto the network in time too.

              Using MiniSatIP means that I have the bare minimum of hardware next to the aerial, and everything else can be handled by virtual machines. Gradually I'll be moving everything from this "server" to VMs so that I can maintain parts separately. It does seem to need rebooted regularly though...

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            " if you don't care about the TV channels, why bother"

            I go more channels on Freesat+Freeview (moved over to freeview only now though) than I did on the paid for Virgin Basic TV bundle. As I didn't have any of the premium channels I was being charged for a lesser service than available free.

          3. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

            I know people blowing >£100 per month on their Sky subscription

            We don't pay anywhere near that - and our costs are variable (jumps during the NFL season - I could use the NFL pay-for-view streaming service but it (generally) sucks..)

            We originally got it well before Freeview was a thing - mainly because our house is in a broadcast shadow for pretty much every transmitter and even with a masthead amp quality is pretty bad. So it was a choice of bad-to-none TV reception or HD with a full suite of FTA channels and a reasonably decent PVR.

    3. DontFeedTheTrolls Silver badge

      So as a long term VirginMedia (getting on for 25 years since UnitedArtists first cabled the street where I lived), I phone them every year, and every year they move me to the best deal currently on offer to new customers, sometimes its even better, and as its new there's no activation fees or other catches.

      I've also done the same with O2 for the past 7 years - I do research on the cheapest deal on offer just before my 12 months, phone them up, and they match or beat it for another year (always been SIM only, buy the handset separately).

      I've got friends who do the same with Sky.

      It is a good thing OFCOM are now forcing these companies to proactively address the problem, but my experience is that if you make a little effort they'll bend over backwards to keep you as a customer.

      1. Lee D Silver badge

        My story is not from the industries in question but:

        - My car insurance came up for renewal.

        - I got a renewal quote that was more than previous year (no idea why, clear licence, no complexities, lots of NCB, etc.!)

        - I went on comparison sites. Got prices literally half of the renewal cost.

        - Phoned up my insurance company and tried to negotiate a deal. Quoted the exact same cover, the costs, the companies that were offering cheaper (basically all of them!), etc.

        - They literally said that they were unable to knock even £10 off the annual renewal cost. Nothing. Nada.

        - So I went with the cheapest from the comparison site. Who use the exact same underwriters, the exact same insurance portal (you can see the design is identical and the URL goes via the same centralise provisioning with online insurance docs etc.), provided more benefits, did it all online, and cost me half the price.

        We had a contracted printer services supplier for something like 15 years. They used to lease us the printers, support them, supply toner, etc. throughout the entire site.

        - One year the renewal went up nearly 20%.

        - We argued. No movement.

        - We got quotes from dozens of other services. No movement.

        - We showed them exactly what was quoted, which was better kit, for lower prices, on shorter contracts. No movement.

        - We offered to take lower services / buy out some machines and put them on the support contract only. No movement.

        - We told them "We don't want to go with an unknown. But if you go down this road, we won't renew, we'll just go elsewhere". No movement.

        - We went elsewhere. We kept one printer (it was nearly "ours" so it was cheaper to keep it for a few months than pay it off) with them.

        - They witnessed the new kit come in. They had to change their kit to be compatible (firmware upgrades for newer Papercut versions etc.) at their expense. The new kit from the other place was basically what these people had been trying to sell us to replace our kit for years. No movement.

        - The final lease finished. We asked them to come collect the dregs of it, thus removing the very last reason for them to ever visit site. They took it away. We replaced it with another serviced model from the new company. No movement.

        My experience is that even if you make a huge effort, and give them all the chances in the world, most places have absolutely no idea of customer loyalty whatsoever and are run by "computer says no", and that any threats or actions are useless unless - and this is important - they could and would have given you that discount at any time anyway. If you'd literally just asked your mate, who was on a cheaper deal, and queried it, they'd give it to you just for asking.

        Generally speaking, if you want my custom, the price is only a single solitary factor in that decision. Knowingly screwing me over comes higher as a factor.

        As even Del Boy says, "they may not be cheaper, but at least they smile when they take your money".

        If I wanted the cheapest deal, I'd be on TalkTalk broadband, driving a Fiat Panda, and do all my shopping at Lidl. None of those are true, for the vast majority of the population.

    4. ToolBoogie

      Same here, I recently had the "upgrade" chat with VM (contract 12m@30pcm and 100Mb, went up to 45pcm with a letter on my doormat the same day claiming "better services blah blah, 3pcm more)). The kindly old dear on the other end of the phone said "Sure, we can offer you 47pcm", that a quid less a month. Pass. I continued to cancel my contract and 2 days later I get a call.

      "Hi this is Dave from VM, how about 27pcm with no phone and 200Mb"

      "Sure, cheers. Why can't Doris offer me this deal"

      "She's not allowed to..."


  6. Tom Chiverton 1


    I'll get the popcorn for the court cases over the meaning of "best".

    Given OFCOM says "fibre" means "coax", should be a riot !

    1. DontFeedTheTrolls Silver badge

      Re: "Best"

      "Best" will be the "Unlimited!!!*" package.

      *limited to fair use and other terms and conditions we can vary from time to time and with an automatic increase based on the RPI effective on a day chosen by us

  7. Lee D Silver badge

    I have to say, in the last twelve months, I've stopped paying mobile providers almost everything.

    Even down to a GPS tracker / house alarm that were each costing me £5 a month to keep the SIM active, I found a M2M SIM which did the same job for £30 one-off and then £10 a year to keep the number active (guaranteed, not like those "after 90 days if you don't top up, we may remove your number" you get everywhere else).

    I keep bumping my phone tariff down (but that's giffgaff so it's really easy to ramp up if I need it), I own all my devices outright, and I have no intention of buying one of those new-fangled sealed-battery heaps of junk.

    I get why they are vying for business, but I also don't understand why they care about voice etc. any more. Put out bigger data tariffs, especially on SIM-only, and price them sensibly. A 100Gb tariff should cost no more than a 50Gb one. Or literally charge, say, a fixed price per Gb or per 100Mb that's in the same range and let me use whatever I want to use - because that's the only sensible charging system anyway and automatically charges directly proportional to my usage.

    When a business is propped up by an pretty unrelated contract service, then you know that they are struggling for business. If a telecoms operator has to get into loans for phones and tablets (which is what we're really talking about when we say "contract") to keep its head above water, it's doing something wrong.

  8. Killing Time

    'When a business is propped up by an pretty unrelated contract service, then you know that they are struggling for business. '

    No, sadly that's not the case, the contracts generate the big profits over and above the stable margins they generate on their services businesses.

    For every saving you make by sensibly controlling your telecoms costs they have to skin someone else to keep the profits, to pay the dividends, to grow the share price,to attract more investment, to grow the company, to employ more people.

    That's what drives the economy, like it or not.

    OFCOM and their ilk are supposedly there to ensure they don't skin to many people .

  9. Rich 2

    Mobile operators are all theives

    My understanding is that buying your phone through the operator (as most people do) is technically done via a hire-purchase agreement.

    As such, I don't understand why it is legal for the operator to carry on taking payments for what is basically a loan. once that loan has been paid in full.

    As a side note, today I received a lovely text message from those nice people at EE. Apparently, the cost of phoning most EU countries has now been cut from (up to) £1.50 / minute to 19p/min.

    Apparently, I should be grateful that EE are no longer going to try and rip me off for calling Euroland. And all out of the goodness of their own heart too. Well, apparently so, because they don't say anything about being forced to do it by some EU law.

    1. David Nash Silver badge

      Re: Mobile operators are all theives

      I used to get contract phones and had some good deals from time to time. But haven't done so for a while, especially as lower-tier phones are now more than adequate.

      Not sure about the others but I am pretty sure that O2 at least separate out the cost of the phone loan and the service charges. Therefore they don't continue taking payments for the loan after it's paid off. I bet they try their hardest to get you to upgrade and thereby take out a new loan though.

    2. FrogsAndChips Bronze badge

      Re: Mobile operators are all thieves

      AFAIK, the EU law is only about roaming, and says you shouldn't pay more while roaming than what you pay in your home country (calling UK from France must cost the same as calling UK from UK). It doesn't say anything about calling other destinations from your home country (so UK to France calls can be more expensive than UK to UK).

    3. Down not across Silver badge

      Re: Mobile operators are all theives

      My understanding is that buying your phone through the operator (as most people do) is technically done via a hire-purchase agreement.

      As such, I don't understand why it is legal for the operator to carry on taking payments for what is basically a loan. once that loan has been paid in full.

      With O2 Refresh that is what happens. You have a separate load agreement for the device. Once that is paid off you only continue to pay for your air time.

      With most others, whilst it may appear to you as a hire purchase, it is not. No doubt the operators finance the handsets via loans, but your contract is not a loan, it is for some air time tariff for a minimum period that just happens to include a device (either free or some upfront cost). So unless you cancel or change tariff once the minimum contract period is up, you will continue to pay for that tariff. Nothing illegal about it, its how all contracts used to be until variations like O2 Refresh.

      It may seem immoral/unfair but nothing stops you from cancelling or changing tariff once the minimum contract period is up.

      And for the record I'm not defending mobile operators who are greedy bloodsucking parasites most of the time, but the "is it a hire purchase or not" is quite simple and no doubt all in black and white in the contract that you have signed.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Mobile operators are all theives

        "mobile operators (mostly] are greedy bloodsucking parasites most of the time,"

        We're agreed on that. Applies in some other sectors too.

        ""is it a hire purchase or not" is quite simple"

        Simple for you, and rewarding for the lawyers, maybe. But if the facts are that simple why do the telcos and their lawyers etc try to hide the legal and practical realities?

        "all in black and white in the contract that you have signed."

        If the suppliers were up front and honest about these things, and didn't try to hide important stuff in the smalll print, there'd have been no need for the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts (and related) laws in the UK - laws that have existed in one form or other for decades, and which only a few years ago were incorporated in the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

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