back to article The difference between October and May? About 16GB, says Microsoft: Windows 10 1903 will need 32GB of space

Microsoft has confirmed that Windows 10's voracious appetite for storage remains undiminished in the upcoming May 2019 Update (1903). Noted by Pureinfotech, Microsoft has quietly updated the minimum storage requirements for the OS from 16GB for 32-bit versions and 20GB for 64-bit to 32GB. Notably, the Windows 10 IoT Enterprise …

  1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
    Joke

    Perhaps...

    They'll tell the world that keeping 'Paint' was the reason for all the extra storage?

    1. sad_loser

      I was looking forward to Paint again

      I had been with Mac the last 15 years but had grown bored of the complete lack of innovation since October 2011.

      I bought a sexy laptop with a nice NVIDIA graphics card to do tense ML things and I was looking forward to seeing some of my favourite apps from the past like Paint, TextEdit+, Winamp, Duke Nukem etc. I always liked CorelDraw more than Adobe.

      I got W10 Pro and was horrified by experience, from the gag-inducing false bonhomie of the sign-up process to the relentless and devious acquisition of all possible personal data. The final straw was not finding Candy Crush installed, but was rather that whenever I deleted it, it came back. Really? on a 'Pro' system? Do people still treat their customers like that? That reminded me of the Belkin router that spammed its owner:

      https://www.geek.com/news/belkin-routers-misdirect-users-to-advertising-sites-553765/

      Ubuntu had always driven me away by being the Tony Blair of operating systems - trying to be all things to all people, and not really believing in anything.

      I was pretty despondent and thought I had bought a big shiny paperweight, but then found POP OS by accident. The security of Mac but allows you freedom when you want it. None of the vacuous and abusive cruft and bloatware of Windows.

      Libre Office finally works. An app store that allows me to find stuff I want and just puts it on for free without trying to sell me a load of stuff I don't want. Evolution even works with Office365 which I have to have for work.

      I had tried linux for the desktop first with RedHat 6.2 and it was horrible and clunky, but I have now binned my W10 partition and sold off my 2016 MacBook Pro, and POP OS 'just works' in the way I remember finding with my first mac.

      POP OS is so good I feel guilty and want to send them some money! Maybe then they can port Paint to POP OS?

      1. Uncle Slacky Silver badge
        Linux

        Re: I was looking forward to Paint again

        Pop OS is still Ubuntu underneath, you know (not that there's anything wrong with that, just shows what you can do with a different GUI). You could always install Pinta, which is a copy of Paint.NET, or Tux Paint if you want something closer to MS Paint.

        1. RAMChYLD

          Re: I was looking forward to Paint again

          Or you could always whisk a copy of Paint from Windows 7 and run it in Wine.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: I was looking forward to Paint again

        "I had been with Mac the last 15 years but had grown bored of the complete lack of innovation since October 2011."

        You say that as if it's a bad thing.

        Too much innovation is simply fixing things that weren't broken.

        1. jelabarre59 Silver badge

          Re: I was looking forward to Paint again

          "I had been with Mac the last 15 years but had grown bored of the complete lack of innovation since October 2011."

          You say that as if it's a bad thing.

          Ah, but Apple **IS** innovating. They're finding newer ways to use overpriced proprietary parts and turning their hardware into unmaintainable and unrepairable pieces of crap.

          Takes a lot of creativity to continuously screw your customer base and have them thanking you for the privilege, and constantly coming back to be reamed once more.

    2. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Perhaps...

      They'll tell the world that keeping 'Paint' was the reason for all the extra storage?

      Well, all those new colours need storage space, after all

      Oh, dear. I'd better be going

  2. JLV Silver badge
    Black Helicopters

    what I am curious about...

    Does that mean successive updates agree to live within those means?

    Why? Well, a long time ago I was partitioning my main drive.

    Win 7 system partition C: 25G

    Linux partitions... no where near 25 G

    D: - all the rest - user data and program partitions , basically where I would install any games. So C: would never be asked to take these on.

    Over time C: filled up with all the stupid service packs and their revert checkpoints and I ran out of space.

    Yes, yes, this may NOT be the cleverest way to install Windows but I do that once every 5 years max so I never get any good at it (and... don’t care as it’s a gaming machine)

    Question is: is MS hereby committing not to sprawl even more than 32GB, no matter what?

    1. Horridbloke

      Re: what I am curious about...

      "... is MS hereby committing..."

      No.

    2. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: what I am curious about...

      Linux distros aren't exactly small these days either (although still smaller than Windows). Mint 17.3 requires 9GB of space before it will install.

      Mind you, it's hard to buy an SSD that's smaller than 64GB these days, and £25 will get you a 128GB NVMe SSD, so it's hardly a problem.

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: what I am curious about...

        Mint may require 9 gigs, but Linux doesn't. There are quite a few light-weight Linux distros out there ... or you could simply roll your own if none of them quite meet your needs. I recommend checking out what the TinyCore folks are doing, for example.

        As for your "hardly a problem" comment, for some of us it's the principle of the thing. Why the fuck should I be forced to give up 32 gigs of the disk I paid good money for on the whims of Redmond's marketing department? If it were an engineering decision, I might be persuaded ... but it clearly isn't.

        1. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: what I am curious about...

          FUZIX is the future (until it bloats too).

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: what I am curious about...

            A couple more fuzix links:

            http://www.fuzix.org/

            https://github.com/EtchedPixels/FUZIX

            I've been watching it for a bit. Interesting and potentially useful, considering it's basically a vanity project. Check it out!

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: what I am curious about...

      GWX said: "Free Windows 10 valid for the lifetime of your device".

      Now we know why.

  3. macjules Silver badge

    Why bite the bullet?

    I would have thought that any Linux option would be a better deal than 32Gb of bloatware.

    1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Why bite the bullet?

      It is this sort of nonsense which is causing even long term Windows diehards to seriously consider abandoning ship.

      Those who stuck with Windows 7, because 8 was shit, and 8.1 no better, then refused to move to 10 because it was never as good as 7, are finding it's become so bloody ridiculous, and will likely continue to get worse, that it's now stick with 7 or go somewhere else.

      Microsoft are their own worst enemies.

      1. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: Why bite the bullet?

        Microsoft are their own worst enemies.

        Only if you suppose that they care about customer satisfaction and want to remain in the general-purpose OS business. I think it's safe to say that both of these things are very much in question at this point.

        MS knows quite well what happens when you use a monopoly to force people to accept substandard crap. Remember when IE commanded more than 90% of the browser market share? It was terrible, but people felt like they had to use it, since all the web sites assumed a person was using it. For a while. Longer term... well, IE is dead, and MS is getting out of the browser business, opting instead to provide another Chrome reskin/front end, while offloading all the real work to Google.

        I don't think for a moment that they don't know they are killing Windows with this nonsense they're pulling. MS wanted a cloud guy in charge of the company, and that's what they got. Windows is a legacy product, not even deserving of its own division anymore. The plan quite clearly is to monetize it to death, milk it for all it's worth, and leave it a dried-up husk that can be tossed into the wind, so MS can become the cloud company that it really wants to be.

        1. keithpeter
          Windows

          Re: Why bite the bullet?

          Running a Windows compatibility layer on top of a convenient host OS which is developed elsewhere has struck me as a possible way forwards for Microsoft for some time. Cost of maintenance must be getting larger with each new layer, and onboarding programmers must be harder with each generation. I shall miss the last of the actual microcomputer OSes.

          Icon: people pay me to use Windows

        2. emullinsabq
          Linux

          Re: Why bite the bullet?

          I've heard this before, that MS wants out of the OS business. I'll believe that when they stop giving discounts for offering only windows. ie, when I can go buy various brand computers without an OS for cheaper than with windows.

          1. Zippy´s Sausage Factory
            Meh

            Re: Why bite the bullet?

            I used to say I'd believe it when I saw Visual Studio running on the Mac, IE dead and SQL Server running on Linux.

            Well, IE still works better than Edge, anyway. For now.

      2. s2bu

        Re: Why bite the bullet?

        8.1 + Open-Shell really isn’t bad at all, as far as Windows goes. Except the whole Control Panel / Settings split personality crap that even 10 hasn’t fixed.

      3. aj69

        Re: Why bite the bullet?

        My employer gave me a new win10 laptop to replace my old win7. It's been on a drawer for more than a year. They'll pry the old one from my dead cold hands.

        1. macjules Silver badge
          Linux

          Re: Why bite the bullet?

          Hah! They did the same for my entire department (+20 devs). We double-checked with IT that it was OK and installed RHEL on each computer instead.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    1903 / 19H1 / "April 2019" / May 2019

    Despite just learning to walk, Windows 10 is already taking leap-months. If 10 is the "last version of Windows", it will be taking giant-leaps into legacy-hood.

    1. Chris G Silver badge

      Re: 1903 / 19H1 / "April 2019" / May 2019

      " If 10 is the "last version of Windows""

      Let's hope it hurries up and fucking dies.

      It may be that it is the largest OS in commercial use but what does that doubling of necessary OS space mean for businesses worldwide? That MS is going to shove Win10S the cloud based crap onto the entire World in the near future?

      People will be really stuffed when their broadband goes down or the cloud has a brainfart.

      When my Win 7 passes on next year I'm getting a Minty Penguin.

  5. LenG

    Compulsory Upgrades

    This is what happens when you allow the OS supplier control of the level of code you are running. You can't stop at a convenient point and say "this machine works fine but will never be upgraded" like you could for many years with Win7. If you are on Win10 Home you upgrade when MS says so. On Win10 Pro you get I think 12 months grace. After that, if your PC can't handle the new crap then you buy a new PC ... or change OS.

    1. Dave K Silver badge

      Re: Compulsory Upgrades

      Yep, welcome to planned obsolescence. It will happen more. Not necessarily due to MS changing system requirements, but due to companies wanting people off older kit so deciding not to make drivers.

      In the past, you bought a machine with the current Windows and had up to 10 years of support, plus probably support for the next version of Windows as well. Now? Expect a lot of more budget-oriented machines to be abandoned by the manufacturers after 5 years or so, then a new build of Windows comes along that needs a newer driver and you've then got 12-18 months before you are SOL with Windows updates.

      It's already happened once with Clover Trail Atoms. Only MS's heavy-handed "free upgrade" offer and their fear of lawsuits saw them extend security support for Anniversary Edition to work around this. Soon, no such gestures will be on offer and manufacturers will be far more able to determine when they want you to bin their older kit and buy new ones...

      1. Giovani Tapini Silver badge

        Re: Compulsory Upgrades

        In my place, even the idea of keeping a solution in a known working state is called old school thinking. Apparently now everything is disposable minimum viable product and service life is simply until it's replacement arrives.

        This will keep software people busy forever but creates anarchy for anyone trying to look at security or platform roadmap, or how archive data may may be accessed...

        It's a strange world I am moving into

      2. Rob Davis

        Re: Compulsory Upgrades

        Agree. That's really bad for the environment what they are doing though.

  6. davidp231

    That's pretty much all those "thin" laptops with 32GB eMMC/SSD storage out the window then - ~20GB usable (from empty), most eaten by the OS before the user gets their grubby paws on it - they can't even handle an incremental patch, let alone a new build.

    1. JassMan Silver badge

      As the owner of one of those thin laptops

      I want to know if Microsoft are offering to buy back my now useless hardware. I bought a win8.1 Acer ES11 in good faith which I used happily to download maps for my Garmin GPS, and still had room for a 7GB Linux instal to do real work. I kept ignoring the "Free" upgrade to Win10 but one day someone at MS decided I had to have Win10 whether I wanted it or not, just because there was a Win10 sticker on the lid. Needless to say the upgrade failed totally. I eventually managed to get it working again by installing from a downloaded USB image. It still worked for GPS updates until a couple of updates later when it took so much space that there was no room to run Garmin Express or indeed any 3rd party apps.

      Nice of them to now state officially that their bloatware takes more space than the hardware supports, even though they unofficially made it impossible to use as a PC 18 months ago.

      The really criminal thing is that most of the space is occupied by "optional" things I will never use such as Cortana which cannot be removed. Why are they called optional?

      1. Palpy

        Re: Thin laptop... workarounds

        Sigh. I feel your pain. A clunky workaround (as long as the thin machine will boot Windows, and you've managed to free up enough space for applications) is to keep the thin machine off the internet, and download files from the internet with your Linux system(s). Transfer the ones you need -- Garmin maps, etc -- to Windows. Sneakernet if you have to.

        I agree that this is a dumb solution to the problem posed by Windows. And of course if you want to run Windows games or applications in an online mode, it's no good at all.

        But the logic is simple: if Microsoft uses online monitoring and enforced downloads to control your Windows computer, then keep your Windows computer offline.

      2. keithpeter
        Windows

        Re: As the owner of one of those thin laptops

        https://www.christitus.com/2019/02/15/garmin-express-linux/

        I don't use wine and have no experience of Garmin's software, but just thinking that a pretty complete Linux + wine would fit OK on 32Gb with a reasonable amount of storage for /home.

        Icon: people pay me to use Windows

      3. Timmy B Silver badge

        Re: As the owner of one of those thin laptops

        What on earth do you have on there? I have an old Surface (non-pro) with 32gb storage and I have Windows, Office Pro, SQL Server, Visual Studio 17 and PSP on there with space for code. Yes, it's creaking a bit at the seems with not a whole load of space left. But it's all working fine.

        1. Danny 14 Silver badge

          Re: As the owner of one of those thin laptops

          hmm, I use a dell venue 8 tablet (32Gb) that has vanilla 8.1 on it. That has less than 7Gb free space and is used purely as an RDP mule, netflix device (it has HDMI out for TVs) and book reader when i'm away. Sure I can use a kindle, get a proper mobile phone etc but it was given to me for nothing and the battery is surprisingly good. I would shudder to put windows 10 and its huge updates on there.

          1. Walkir

            Re: As the owner of one of those thin laptops

            I bought an Linx Vision 8" tablet some years ago, which unfortunately came pre-installed with Windows 10. After failing to install Windows 8.1 Update 1 (the best version of Windows in my opinion) on it due to some driver issues, I tried to tweak Windows 10 and make it usable.

            After managing to slim the installation down to about 7GB using CompactOS, I'm actually quite happy with Windows at the moment. I will however probably never update past Windows 10 version 1703, since that's the last version using the "old" touch keyboard (resizable in the registry). In 1709 and later the guys at Microsoft thought it would be a good idea to take the keyboard from their failed Windows 10 Mobile experiment and implement it into Windows 10.

            The device itself works great and I won't let Microsoft stop me from using it!

      4. Mark 65

        Re: As the owner of one of those thin laptops

        I want to know if Microsoft are offering to buy back my now useless hardware. I bought a win8.1 Acer ES11 in good faith

        There's two things that don't belong together

    2. Thoguht Silver badge

      My other PC is a thin laptop, so there were a few panicky moments whilst I searched around for the charger, but when I fired it up I realised what a good idea it had been to get one with a 128GB SSD. So I'm probably OK until the next doubling in size.

  7. jake Silver badge

    32 Gigs!

    Holy fartin' Mary!

    Q: Does this RAM make my OS look fat?

    A: No, it's your fat OS that makes your OS look fat.

    1. simonlb Bronze badge

      Re: 32 Gigs!

      I know storage is cheap these days, but 32Gb for the OS itself is just taking the piss.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: 32 Gigs!

      From the article: "Microsoft is tight-lipped as to the reasoning behind Windows 10's growing storage needs"

      That is because it's plain obvious why "the bloat" always grows:

      a) feature creep

      b) poor quality design being heaped upon by WORSE quality design

      c) "Everybody has the room, this is 2019, we can get away with it"

      and so on.

      That and maybe they don't want you ONLY running Win-10-nic in a VM on your Linux host... [so they keep bloating the "requirements" for running it, so you'll HAVE to dedicate an entire computer to their 'shrine goddess' OS]

      In Windows 1.0 equivalents (for Win-10-nic is just Windows 1.0 without the '.') how many floppies would that be???

      "Object Oriented" (but they really aren't) design concepts being mis-managed. I knew ".Not" was doing this DECADES ago and have been bitching about it for a LONG time. And now I think the ENTIRE PLANET should be able to see it. But watch, a good number of clueless "developers" will keep their blinders on and refuse to notice THE OBVIOUS, of how bass-ackwards design and excessive monkey motions "for the sake of the model" are driving the code size upwards.

      recently, for a customer project, I needed a LInux box on site. Aside from the company firewall not being able to access popular linux package mirror sites [so I took the box home and set it up there] I was handed a Dell CPU box with Win-10-nic on it, to be replaced with some reasonable Linux distro (I chose Devuan with a Mate desktop). The 256Gb SSD made for a nice way to boot Devuan Linux, and the 1G spinny hard drive became a /home partition. Probably the best booting Linux box I've seen in a while. What's funny is that I was doing the necessary work for a few days with a laptop I brought in from home, a spare Toshiba laptop from 2004 with 256Mb of RAM on it, running a slightly older Linux variant. Only problems it had were loading Firefox which is so bloaty it might as well be a micro-shaft product...

      So to say I was *MORE* *PRODUCTIVE* with a 15 year old laptop running Linux, as compared to a "modern" win-10-nic machine, is a gross understatement.... and Micro-shaft "getting bloaty with it" ain't helping.

      [on a related note, with my piss-poor but unfiltered home connection, I had the Devuan box running in a few hours of wall time, or about an hour of billable "me" time, interspersed between video gaming and watching DVDs - and now that it's running, probably won't need to do much more with the updating/installing thing for a while at least]

      Got Linux?

      [ok I admit the lexmark printer in the front part of the office spat out a box of paper when I tried to configure the driver for it and print a test page, but that's another issue entirely... the only problem I saw with the process]

    3. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

      Re: 32 Gigs!

      I still have an 8" floppy disk with a capacity of 128 kB (yes kB), that contains CP/M 2.0. All of it. Of course a modern OS is way more complex, but my Linux install takes up only a fraction of that space, and that is including all sorts of software packages like editors, compilers, etc.

  8. DerekCurrie Bronze badge
    Thumb Down

    And WHAT exactly is being stuffed into those extra gigabytes of code lard?

    My first expectation is that Microsoft is, as usual, too lazy to cull out their legacy code that’s no longer used or needed. If they did, it would most certainly cut down on the extra byte weight gain.

    My second expectation is that Microsoft isn’t bothering to compress their less essential code. If they did, again it would most certainly cut down on the byte caloric bloat.

    My third expectation is that Microsoft is Fast-And-Dirty coding these days, breaking all the rules their fore-coders taught them about coding efficiency.

    So what’s in all this new bloat code anyway? Is it worth the drastic loss of drive space the users must suffer? Cynicism bells are chiming.

    1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: And WHAT exactly is being stuffed into those extra gigabytes of code lard?

      ...but the new "Reserved Storage" feature has been fingered. The function swipes around 7GB (your mileage may vary) of disk space for its own nefarious purposes.

      Yep, reserve some space in which to store and analyse user data, then phone home with the juicy bits later.

      Huawei snooping about? Amateurs says a bloke from Redmond

    2. aks Bronze badge

      Re: And WHAT exactly is being stuffed into those extra gigabytes of code lard?

      Candy Crush Saga, that won't uninstall.

      Xbox is hard to uninstall, but that can be achieved using steps you can find online.

      Game bar. Why would I want that? It can't be uninstalled.

      OneDrive.

      Cortana.

      1. Danny 14 Silver badge

        Re: And WHAT exactly is being stuffed into those extra gigabytes of code lard?

        ForEach($app in $appname){

        # Remove apps from current user

        Get-AppxPackage -Name $app | Remove-AppxPackage -ErrorAction SilentlyContinue

        # Remove apps from all users - may need to reboot after running above and run this again

        Get-AppxPackage -Allusers -Name $app | Remove-AppxPackage -Allusers -ErrorAction SilentlyContinue

        # Remove apps from provisioned apps list so they don't reinstall on new users

        Get-AppxProvisionedPackage -Online | where {$_.PackageName -like $app} | Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -Online -ErrorAction SilentlyContinue

        }

        stick a nice list of $appname for what you want to remove (in nice friendly "*Microsoft.BingWeather*" format). Has worked for me flawlessly. In fact, after 1709 W10 has remembered what ive deprovisioned so ive not had to run this since.

    3. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: So what’s in all this new bloat code anyway?

      Spyware naturally.

      What else can it be?

      Oh wait, fifty different copies of different versions of the .Net runtimes.

      Yeah, that's it...

      1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: So what’s in all this new bloat code anyway?

        Oh wait, fifty different copies of different versions of the .Net runtimes.

        Just like the book shelves of the local charity shops heaving with copies of "Fifty Shades of Grey"

    4. Tom 7 Silver badge

      Re: And WHAT exactly is being stuffed into those extra gigabytes of code lard?

      Many years ago someone went through Win95 (or something) binaries and replaced all the repeated code for loops etc they could recognise with one where only one was needed. The whole caboodle fitted in 1MB!!!!!

      I run Xubuntu and like to think I have a clue and have a lot of code floating about the place - mostly other peoples but even my own shows massive redundancy. Pretty much all code can be found in Knuth - if we all had a Knuth core we could all write OSes that would fit in 1MB and all our other code in 1MB and then only the DATA segment needs to be managed!

  9. revenant Silver badge

    Looks like the end for me

    I have one machine with WIndows 10 on and it's a 32Gb Linx 810 tablet (I got it because it was cheap, not because of the OS) . So come May, either it will try to update and maybe get borked, or Microsoft will do the decent thing and refuse to update.

    Running that PoS OS without updates is definitely not on, so I guess I'll be attempting to put Linux on it.

    1. JJKing Silver badge
      Flame

      Re: Looks like the end for me

      Microsoft will do the decent thing and refuse to update.

      I'm sorry but Microsoft and decent do not belong in the same article let alone a sentence.

      I feel your pain.

      1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

        Re: Looks like the end for me

        I'm sorry but Microsoft and decent do not belong in the same article let alone a sentence.

        You managed quite nicely. I will admit you added a negative, but still.

    2. Citizen99

      Re: Looks like the end for me

      I've experimented with some of those tablets, including the Linx 810 and 820, and Ubuntu. Be prepared to use a very fine-point stylus and perhaps reading glasses, and the single USB port is a PITA.

      I got an 820 which it seems had been 'bricked' by a W10 update.

      Xubuntu 19.04 re-spun by Linuxium's isorespin.sh VERSION 8.2.8 works in my Linx 820.

      I've run earlier re-spun Ubuntus on the Linx 810 from a Live USB.

      1. revenant Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: Looks like the end for me

        Thanks for the encouraging info that it is possible to move to a better OS, especially for the ref to "Linuxium".

        I think I have somewhere to go now.

    3. revenant Silver badge

      Re: Looks like the end for me

      In the interests of fairness, I ought to update the original comment:

      - Microsoft subsequently backed away a bit and said that the 32Gb limit would only apply to OEM builds.

      - I was offered 1903 on my Linx810 and decided to go for it.

      - Updates failed a number of times, mostly it seemed related to Windows Defender updates.

      - The update to 1903 eventually went ahead and completed successfully.

      As a bonus, I did a Disk Cleanup and told it to get rid of system files as well. Windows 10 now occupies only 10.3GB, which is the lowest I've ever seen.

      So, OK this time.

  10. TechDrone
    Linux

    Mint: 10GB all in

    Linux Mint 19.1, Cinnamon desktop, all apps I need, inc LibreOffice, mail, and a bunch of other stuff comes to just a shade under 10GB and apart from lack of SfB, Teams and and 2 other other corporate apps it can do everything my work Windows machine can do - and even then I can run a P2V of that should the need arise. OK, I'll admit to having an isolated WinXP VM for a couple of ancient games that I can't be bothered to mess about with Wine for, but they don't really work well under modern Windows either.

    Something is very wrong when the OS takes more space than the data you need to keep.

    1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

      Re: Mint: 10GB all in

      >> Something is very wrong when the OS takes more space than the data you need to keep.

      But, but, but... people keep telling me I need to keep all my stuff in the cloud[tm]! Not that I *own* anything, of course, because now I just rent it, or so they keep telling me. And as computers are now largely amusement and shopping devices, there's never going to be anything I will generate and store on it anyway. Any data I do chance to generate, y'know, stuff like company financials, OCR scans, hi-res large format photos, electronics, software/hardware development, engineering drawings... obviously that is a figment of my imagination.

      Which is why I just bought a few more terabytes for the NAS.

  11. adnim Silver badge

    Windows 10

    Simply installs all that is needed and nothing more.

    All that is needed in every possible scenario that is, drivers, frameworks, telemetry, code libraries etc., regardless of your system config, hardware or software requirements.

    1. FozzyBear Silver badge

      Re: Windows 10

      Yep and that's the problem. Give me an OS that is an OS. Secure and with updates that patch the holes. I'LL decide what additional software is installed and run on the machine.

      When it takes longer to cull the crap from the base install, you know something is seriously wrong with the OS

    2. DiViDeD Silver badge

      Re: Windows 10

      I've yet to figure why it does that since, as soon as you add a new HDD, or change your graphics card (or paint the bloody case a different colour, if they could), Windows will inform you that your licence just got revoked and you'd better hand over a wodge of cash before it stops working altogether.

  12. ST Silver badge
    Devil

    new bugs need more room

    That's my conclusion.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: new bugs need more room

      Double the size of the attack surface, confuse the attackers with options!

  13. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Linux

    No probs here

    single 120G SSD

    OS partition 20G - half full

    home partition 30G - 2/3 full

    data partition 60G - 3/4 full

    {sigh} maybe I can shrink the OS partition for a bit more space :)

    Oh, and this is for an office cum development machine.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: No probs here

      "an office cum development machine"

      You work in the pr0n industry? Or do you just freelance when the Boss isn't about?

    2. Rob Davis

      Re: No probs here

      Is that Windows 10? Sorry to ask but you don't mention OS. If so, then great you aren't having problems.

      1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: No probs here

        Nope, been a Penguinister since Win 95

  14. J J Carter Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Let’s get real.

    Who is still using an Atom powered 16GB tablet from 5 years ago?

    1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

      Re: Let’s get real.

      Why should I not? If it fitted the requirements then, why does it not fit the requirements now?

      1. DenonDJ DN-2500F

        Re: Let’s get real.

        The world has moved on (especially in the murky world of security) - and the company who made your equipment then would like to see you something new and shiny. Your mobile phone is probably more powerful these days.

    2. jake Silver badge

      Re: Let’s get real.

      Not me ... but I'm typing this on a 15 year old 2Gig[0] HP zv5105 laptop. Runs Slackware-current quite nicely and is in use daily. Does that count?

      [0] Came with 256megs in two 128meg sticks. I replaced them with 1gig sticks ... HP said it couldn't be done because the module under the keyboard was soldered in. They lied ... however, the old girl runs a trifle hotter than she should.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Let’s get real.

      <Who is still using an Atom powered 16GB tablet from 5 years ago?>

      Yeah, fok dem.

      I remember when the OS ran your computer, not the other way round

    4. Uncle Slacky Silver badge

      Re: Let’s get real.

      I still (sometimes) use an eeePC 701 4G from 12 years ago - runs fine with EXELinux (Devuan with Trinity DE) on the internal 4Gb SSD with room to spare.

      1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Let’s get real.

        .. and I run the 'modern' one, an EeePC901 on a regular basis to check the soft-synth I work on still runs on an older machine - don't want to piss off the musicians.

      2. nematoad Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Let’s get real.

        "I still (sometimes) use an eeePC 701 4G from 12 years ago - runs fine with EXELinux (Devuan with Trinity DE) on the internal 4Gb SSD with room to spare.

        Yes, me too except I installed Bunsenlabs on it. That's the successor to Crunchbang. It works, is not very friendly or pretty but it does what I need it for which is to take on holiday. I don't have a smartphone. If the baggage handlers strike and it gets broken I would not be a happy man but it would not be the end of the world.

      3. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Let’s get real.

        eeePC 701 4G from 12 years ago

        A sight for sore eyes...

        https://regmedia.co.uk/2008/05/21/eee_girl_1.jpg

    5. Danny 14 Silver badge

      Re: Let’s get real.

      16gb? probably few people. 32Gb or even 64gb? loads I imagine. They are cheap and functional. Atom cpus arent that bad, they run netflix, RDP, browsing, and various reader software quite nicely. I use a dell venue 8, the size is right, battery is good, the screen is nice and it was free (it even has a natty little folio keyboard that I dont tend to use as it adds bulk). Why should I turf it out when it does everything I want it to? It certainly isnt slow, its fast enough on the web, plays netflix nicely (and can HDMI to hotel TVs)

      32Gb for an OS is just stupid. Reserving 7gb for shit'n'giggles is (again) just ridiculous.

    6. Baldrickk Silver badge

      Re: Let’s get real.

      My Father is, though it has 32GB iirc.

      He has a desktop for at home, but this gets used when on the move. Does the job just fine.

      I think that "just fine" might be ending soon, as he has issues with space already.

      I see a case of recovering the key (for future use) and replacing with a linux distro coming in the near future.

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Let’s get real.

      I've got 2 Lenovo Miix 310s 16gb or Ram with 32 gb sd cards in each, lovely little 2 in one machines used for web browsing, email, netflix, sky go, ereader etc. and a bit of lightweight word processing. The hardware has been absolutely bomb proof and there is a reasonable screen and keyboard. They still have great battery life and are also used as wifi hotspots in extremis if I'm in a hotel where I need to authenticate to the wi-fi so I can use netflix over chromecast. Whilst they were not expensive I'm of the ilk who use stuff until it definitely cannot be repaired before it gets sent to landfill

      These were bought as win10 machines so I'll be disappointed if I have to junk them.

  15. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Minimum RAM requirements remain 1GB for 32-bit Windows 10 and 2GB for the 64-bit version

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAA HAAA HAAAA !!

    The only version of Windows that ever ran on 1GB of RAM was XP - and even then it was a lot better with 4GB.

    My personal minimum RAM requirement for Windows has been 16GB for the past ten years, and now I have 32GB. Once I have completed transitioning my family entirely to Mint, things will be a lot easier on the support side.

    1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

      Re: Minimum RAM requirements remain 1GB for 32-bit Windows 10 and 2GB for the 64-bit version

      The only version of Windows that ever ran on 1GB of RAM was XP

      Earlier versions ran on far less. I have a Windows 98 PC running with 64MB of RAM disk and I recall it's only got that much because I pulled SIMMs from PCs I did let go. I might replace it one day but it's reached that stage where it would be a shame to do so.

    2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Minimum RAM requirements remain 1GB for 32-bit Windows 10 and 2GB for the 64-bit version

      "The only version of Windows that ever ran on 1GB of RAM was XP - and even then it was a lot better with 4GB."

      S'funny. All my Windows VMs still have less than 2GB RAM and until Win10 they mostly managed with just the 1GB and no page file. I suppose it is possible that the Linux host underneath is just awesomely efficient at driving the hardware, but actually I suspect Windows just isn't as memory hungry as you think.

      Now disc space ... that's a whole different kettle of bloated fish.

    3. Baldrickk Silver badge

      Re: Minimum RAM requirements remain 1GB for 32-bit Windows 10 and 2GB for the 64-bit version

      I found vanilla Windows 7 ran better on the same machine than XP did (1GB, Pentium 4 - all my other machines had more)

      XP couldn't play a DVD while W7 could...

  16. Benno

    Down the legal rabbit hole?

    MS have shifted the goal-posts after the game has started - The system requirements for "Windows 10" are now *not* the same as they once were. So what legal standing does one have now that their system, which clearly met the original system requirements, now does not? It's no longer a forced software upgrade (via GWX), it's a forced hardware upgrade.

    Such is the side effect of the current versioning & release methodology.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    This is what happens if you don't empty the cesspit.

  18. BGatez Bronze badge

    Enterprise LTSB

    Enterprise LTSB can be had for 300 US from MS resellers and is SO worth the price. All OS, zero crap, no toy break your machine updates.

    1. Danny 14 Silver badge

      Re: Enterprise LTSB

      if using W10 wasnt bad enough. Paying 300 for the priv to do so? Madness.

  19. Zarno

    What the feculent pile of...

    My friends wife has a small netbook-esque mini laptop (HP Stream?).

    It's got A 32GB soldered down eMMC device. Works a treat for her side job and general browsing, and was cheap enough to not break the bank.

    If windows 10 now requires 32GB after the update, then what will be left to support the required software she uses for her side job?

    Already had to shave out a bloatload of temp files a week ago, since windows sucked all the free space up with them while trying to update.

    I long for the days of Win2K only needing a gig.

    Understandable to have some growth, but 32X is a bit much.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: What the feculent pile of...

      Does she need to be online for the side job? If not then just keep off=line when running Windows. If it has to go on-line, can the S/W for the side-job run on Wine? If neither works and the side-job can't pay for something bigger, is the side-job paying its way?

      1. Zarno

        Re: What the feculent pile of...

        Linux is out of the mix, mainly due to required interoperability.

        Internet is needed for send/receive of finished stuff easily.

        It's not a major income generator, but it's something she enjoys passing the time with when nothing else is happening.

        The main thing is, a laptop, even a cheap one, should not have a 2 year life limited by a software update to the OS. They aren't cellphones. :(

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: What the feculent pile of...

          In Syntax Towers even cell-phones are expected to last a lot more than 2 years.

          Count yourself lucky if it's something only she passes the time with. SWMBO started a patchwork class (allegedly to use up all the bits of fabric she'd stored up - we now have stacks more fabric) and weekly I get dragged into photographing the next project, tidying up with Gimp and then photocopying the class notes last minute on class mornings. And getting dragged into any fabric shops we happen to pass.

          It's Monday evening - time to get the camera out again...

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: What the feculent pile of...

            Nice of you to help 'er indoors with 'er 'obby.

            When are you going to tell her she's going to be holding the dirty end of the spanners when you do your BSA Bantam restoration?

          2. Zarno

            Re: What the feculent pile of...

            From what I gather it's dictation/transcription services (per-job stuff), ghost writing, some short novels, and general stuff like that.

            Not big bucks, but keeps her tea drawer full and the WPM count up.

            1. jake Silver badge

              Re: What the feculent pile of...

              How would "Linux is out of the mix, mainly due to required interoperability" with that kind of work? Linux should be capable of handling all that easily, including interoperability, even if everybody else that she works with/for is firmly glued to Redmond.

              I'm not arguing with you, I'm genuinely curious.

              1. Zarno

                Re: What the feculent pile of...

                Mainly comes down to her preference of scrivener as a word processor, and media player stuff for some of the dictation.

                It seems it can be done unofficially with WINE but I admit not wanting to support a pile of jenga blocks like that when I don't have to.

                My normal go-to of a VM is out, because of lack of space.

                I must admit, I rarely use linux anymore myself. I got tied TIGHT into Windows 7 by virtue of the day job in automation and controls, the side business requiring CAD/CAM packages, the automotive/powersports software packages for my toys, and gaming seemingly being windows or nothing now.

                That's going to have to change once 7 goes full EOL though.

  20. mark l 2 Silver badge

    As it stands already Windows 10 needs 32GB of storage available because the 6 month 'feature updates' are essential whole new OS along with whatever bloatware MS deems to install without asking first.

    I already use Linux mint on my laptop and desktop but keeping Windows as a dual boot for those programs that I need to run now and again because there are no Linux versions. But I will be damned if I am going to go and buy some more storage just so I can get the latest update from MS.

  21. edris90

    Having grown up with Computers, (I still have a Heath zenith 100 in my dad's basement).

    Every time new hardware comes out, I cringe.

    Because I know that every time memory capacity increases the programmers become lazier and less skilled, you know the next generation of software is going to negate any advantage that new hardware has through lazier and more bloated programming.

    Most people who call themselves programmers today are nothing but script kiddies.

  22. Matt_payne666

    It's not ideal, but it's no worse than Apple...

    Osx Mojave, obsoliting the pretty much anything older than 2013 and those were considerably more expensive than a $130 laptop.

  23. Andytug

    Windows 10 updates are already too big for 32Gb mini laptops/tablets

    I had to use a 16Gb USB stick to install the last one on my daughter's Lenono Miix.

    Win 10 already takes up 20Gb of the 32....doesn't leave much. Presumably if it's even possible to install the next on there'll be about 2Gb left.....

    Windows always needed 2 or preferably 4x the "minimum" when it came to RAM, now it's heading that way and then some for HDD space too!

    1. jason 7 Silver badge

      Re: Windows 10 updates are already too big for 32Gb mini laptops/tablets

      I've worked on these 32GB machines many times in the past. They should be junked.

      You chose...poorly.

  24. jason 7 Silver badge

    Hmmmm...so change over my entire IT infrastructure to Linux etc.

    ....or just lose 10GB or so in storage space on each machine.

    Well as this isn't 2001 anymore I'll just take the 10GB as I won't notice it.

    Nor will probably most folks. In my experience of they did a disk clean now and then they would get back 30GB anyway.

    Not even a first world problem.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: Hmmmm...so change over my entire IT infrastructure to Linux etc.

      But jason 7, you've been doing this time, after time, after time over the decades, each time using the same justification. How much money have you wasted in that timeframe (including re-training your userbase)? How much would you have saved if you had decided on a FOSS solution ten years ago?

      Redmond has become the world's leading expert on boiling frogs.

      1. jason 7 Silver badge

        Re: Hmmmm...so change over my entire IT infrastructure to Linux etc.

        Nope, not bothered, staff not bothered. The world keeps turning.

        Slap a SSD in a machine and the human noise drifts away.

        Some folks try too hard...and expensive. But that's what IT contractors love...pushing a £5000 server with a £500 monthly admin charge when a 64GB USB stick would do.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So where the heck do all those resources go?

    I started my computer use in the days of the DAI, the Commodore 64, Apple ][ et al, and the PC XT (hey, with a genuine turbo button :) ).

    512K was a luxury then (insert the 4 Yorkshire men sketch if you will), yet now 16GB isn't enough? WTF? I have a MacBook at home which has 16GB, and that has as yet to use more than 10GB when it has pulled in something via MacPorts or Brew that needs compiling, and the previous one was quite happy with 8GB, not hitting swap at all. Ditto for Linux, 16GB means you're practically swimming in RAM resources, so where on Earth does MS waste all those resources on? Spyware?

    That said, wasteful computing has been sort of a Microsoft default from day one. *ANY* other compilers would produce tighter and faster code than Microsoft, even those from IBM, and it appears nothing has changed at all.

    Appaling.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: So where the heck do all those resources go?

      Where? It's bloat, pure and simple.

      Consider that I can create and print a document using Wordstar or create and print a spreadsheet using Visicalc (both running on DOS 3.3) MUCH faster than I can perform the exact same task(s) using anything that Redmond is currently pushing.

      An aging Aunt & Uncle of mine found it faster and easier to use Netware, MS-DOS 3.3 with WordStar, dBase III+ and Lotus on an airgapped 25 year old network than it was to use the latest offerings from Redmond. I finally converted them over to a Slackware based solution a couple years ago[0] ... Their final year of using the legacy system brought them a tick over 1.5 million in sales, in 2015 dollars. Not too bad for a small mom&pop family business!

      [0] It was becoming quite spendy to get parts ...

  26. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    The next step?

    Perhaps Microsoft will [cough] [cough] offer a stripped down cloud based version for the one time cheap price of £9.99/month plus VAT.

    I'm sure that this is all part of their grand plan to become the first company to reach the $2T stock market valuation.

  27. ecofeco Silver badge

    Bum code?

    Apparently bumming code is a lost art.

    The only reason I have a Win 10 machine at home is because I have to support it at work.

    My home daily is both Win 7 and Linux Mint.

  28. MrKrotos

    WTF!!!!!

    So how big is the effing download? This might be the push I need to remove the last W10 machine at home, I have broadband with a cap so this could be a show stopper!

    This is just plain stupid

  29. SVV Silver badge

    The explanation is simple

    There's twice as much code in it, therefore it'll be twice as good.

  30. Sestun

    Stripped down Windows 10 Install

    Take a look at NTLite, it's a utility to get rid of a lot of cruft in the Windows 10 ISO:

    https://www.softpedia.com/get/System/OS-Enhancements/NTLite.shtml

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What's not to like? (see below)

    Acer Cloudbook and Fedora29 (2GB memory, 32GB eMMC)...and only £200. What's not to like? (Answer: Microsoft Windows)

    EVERYTHING (OS, software, /home, /var....) in 11GB (see below).

    Software image (only OS and applications) in 5GB

    $ > df -h -BG

    Filesystem 1G-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on

    devtmpfs 1G 0G 1G 0% /dev

    tmpfs 1G 1G 1G 3% /dev/shm

    tmpfs 1G 1G 1G 1% /run

    tmpfs 1G 0G 1G 0% /sys/fs/cgroup

    /dev/mapper/fedora-root 25G 11G 13G 46% /

    tmpfs 1G 1G 1G 1% /tmp

    /dev/mmcblk1p2 1G 1G 1G 22% /boot

    /dev/mmcblk1p1 1G 1G 1G 9% /boot/efi

    tmpfs 1G 1G 1G 1% /run/user/1000

    $ >

  32. Cowardly Anon

    Non-bloatware options

    Win7 user here, looking to change OS to whatever doesn't suck. Any recommendations?

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Linux Mint Debian Edition stripped down into <3GB

    LMDE installed onto asus ee pc 4GB boxes. They work hard as sound receivers, digital picture frames, clocks, internet radio players, 3-port usb hubs and prevent cats sitting in the space occupied by the machine.

  34. arctic_haze Silver badge

    Old Win 3.1 games play only on Wine

    Yes, I still use one or two.

  35. DenonDJ DN-2500F

    They are all the same. Planned obsolescence is how business works.

    All these folks moaning that their 32Gb storage machine wont run the latest version of WIndows - didn't you realise these ultra low end dirt cheap devices were designed to be as long lasting as an Android phone which you would bin (put in for recycling) after 2 -3 years because Google's clusterfuck of an OS will never be updated on your otherwise adequate phone.

    Sorry folks - all the tech companies are behaving the same way

    Microsoft , Google, Apple ( ok - a bit longer support for the OS but not indefinite - I suppose the iDevice will have developed an unrepairable fault before the OS stops being supported )

    Other consumer equipment - built in sat navs, etc in cars, upgradable washing machines ( the updates were promised for my AEG but never appeared)

    Smart TV ( Apps & OS abandoned after a few months in some cases)

    Broadband routers - your mileage may vary but very few will support more that 12 months

    consumer IOT stuff - just throw it all away as it was built to a price which didn't allow upgrades or security fixes of any sort

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019