back to article Did someone forget to tell NTT about Brexit? Japanese telco eyes London for global HQ

Japanese telco and tech behemoth NTT Corporation has chosen London for its new global headquarters amid a massive reorg, according to reports. Nippon Telegraph and Telephone Corporation – the parent of Di Data Group – is in the midst of a massive restructuring, with final details due to be announced in July. But London has …

  1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    Makes sense

    You are a global company you put your HQ where the time zone makes sense and there are lots of cheap workers. You don't necessarily need to consider access to markets, having an HQ in the Eu wouldn't suddenly allow free access to Huawei for example.

    The worse Brexit the cheaper London gets (salary, rents, currency) and the more "accommodating" the government will be. And presumably will still be safer than South Africa

    1. codejunky Silver badge

      Re: Makes sense

      @Yet Another Anonymous coward

      Also it is where one of the largest financial centres in the world is. With skilled workers and good rule of law. Not necessarily cheap workers (if thats what you want there are plenty unemployed in the EU proper).

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: Makes sense

        good rule of law

        For a given definition of law… the favourable treatment of trusts appeals to some and the libel laws to others.

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: Makes sense

          @Charlie Clark

          "For a given definition of law… the favourable treatment of trusts appeals to some and the libel laws to others."

          I am not going to argue either of those points (nor did I downvote you) but I want to agree with the first part. The given definition of the law is very important, if it is constant it can be undesirable but yet it is understood. When the law is flaky and not trustworthy in the manner that it is applied then there are problems.

          We are considered pretty trustworthy globally, we do have good rule of law, especially when compared with many other countries (yes there are other good ones too).

          1. crayon

            We are considered pretty trustworthy globally ...

            but likes stealing the assets of sovereign countries:

            https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-25/u-k-said-to-deny-maduro-s-bid-to-pull-1-2-billion-of-gold

            1. veti Silver badge

              Re: We are considered pretty trustworthy globally ...

              That's not stealing, that's (at worst) freezing assets - which is standard operating procedure when it's unclear who should be entitled to them.

              Since Maduro is not recognised by the UK (and other EU governments) as the legitimate ruler of Venezuela, of course he shouldn't be allowed to pull that country's gold. When Venezuela gets its government sorted out, then that government will have access to the money again.

              1. crayon

                Re: We are considered pretty trustworthy globally ...

                "which is standard operating procedure when it's unclear who should be entitled to them"

                You're right that it's SOP against countries that are too weak to fight back. It's the new face of piracy, except that it has been practiced for decades. It's also perfectly clear who should be entitled to them - but a bunch of rogue countries decided otherwise and anointed a practically nobody as the "next president" of Venezuela.

                "Since Maduro is not recognised by the UK (and other EU governments)"

                At least you got it right by using "and other EU governments" and not "and the EU". Italy was the only major EU country with the balls to stand up against this blatant aggression against another country and prevented the EU from making a joint statement.

                Note what happened when the Italian deputy PM met with some representatives from the Yellow Vests - France called it "an unacceptable provocation" and recalled their ambassador to Italy for "consultations".

                https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/06/italys-deputy-pm-luigi-di-maio-meets-senior-gilets-jaunes-figure

                But somehow it's perfectly fine for a bunch of Western countries to dictate to Venezuela who their president should be and to urge their people and their military to overthrow the incumbent government. And then they have the cheek to call this "returning Venezuela to democracy".

                For the record, Venezuela has one of the most transparent election process in the world (yes, really - do some research). Stakeholders are present at all stages of an election to monitor and verify. All voting machines give out receipts and maintain a hardcopy paper trail (which are tallied and checked against the electronic results) - unlike some countries where although machines are required to keep hardcopies they "mysteriously" end up with no paper loaded on voting day.

                "When Venezuela gets its government sorted out, then that government will have access to the money again."

                There is no sorting out needed, the sole legitimate government is the one recognised by the vast majority of countries and the UNGA.

                Hopefully the decision by Russia and China to send have their militaries pay a visit to Venezuela will be enough to signal to the would-be regime-changers that military options are not on the table.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Makes sense

        You miss the whole point of his post.

        > Also it is where one of the largest financial centres in the world is.

        At the moment, pre brexit.

        > With skilled workers

        At the moment, pre brexit.

        > and good rule of law.

        At the moment, pre brexit.

        > Not necessarily cheap workers

        At the moment, pre brexit.

        HTH

      3. Dr_N Silver badge

        Re: Makes sense

        >if thats what you want there are plenty unemployed in the EU proper)

        As opposed to those who just don't show up on the UK figures, eh ?

        You've won. Brexit is coming.

        You can wind your neck in now and enjoy it.

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: Makes sense

          @Dr_N

          "As opposed to those who just don't show up on the UK figures, eh ?"

          The same methods used to compare across the EU yes.

          "You've won. Brexit is coming."

          Have we left? We passed the leaving date but its my understanding that we are still in the EU. When is this coming? We were told it was 2 years after art50

          "You can wind your neck in now and enjoy it."

          When it happens I am sure I will. But there is no winding the neck in here, I pointed out a fact and you dont seem to like it. As per usual my feelings about that is aww didums.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Makes sense

            If it happens...

            You can be damn well be sure that many of us haven't given up trying to stop people like you from ruining our country through lies and delusion.

            What sort of person wanys to gloat about ruining everything for everybody anyway?

            1. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: Makes sense

              @AC

              "You can be damn well be sure that many of us haven't given up trying to stop people like you from ruining our country through lies and delusion."

              Is that trying to stop brexit from happening or stop us from being tied into the EU we voted to leave?

              "What sort of person wanys to gloat about ruining everything for everybody anyway?"

              Beats me. I really dont understand how some people can be so happy to oppose democracy or be so against the electorate. But they do with or without my understanding.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Makes sense

                Stop banging on about democracy. Even you don't believe it.

                It was a complete sham based on lies and illegal funding/promotion. The goalposts have moved so much in the 2+ years, it would be democratic to vote on the final deal - just like Rees-Mogg stated back then.

                Of course, you don't want another referrendum as you know you'll lose. Democracy is what people want now, not in the past. The fact brexit hasn't happened yet is your problem. People have changed their minds.

                Why don't you tell us the real reason you want brexit? Are you ashamed? Citing "democracy" is bullshit. We know it, and you know it. If you cared about democracy you wouldn't be against another referrendum, after all, which ever side wins, democracy will have spoken.

                1. codejunky Silver badge

                  Re: Makes sense

                  @AC

                  "Stop banging on about democracy. Even you don't believe it."

                  I do believe in democracy. Its not perfect but throughout the ages it has been shown to be the best way forward for the people living under it. That is why I consider it so important. It was even a strong part of the referendum too.

                  "It was a complete sham based on lies and illegal funding/promotion."

                  True. Both official campaigns were shameful and the fact that the power of government was even threatened to be used against us if we didnt vote to remain is seriously concerning. Lies and propaganda were bad enough but attempted coercion by our own government was not something we should be proud of.

                  "The goalposts have moved so much in the 2+ years"

                  Absolutely. We had a referendum to enact art50 immediately after the result and it was delayed. Then negotiations were stopped as May has tried to BINO and now stalling because parliament cant decide what kind of remain they want when the result was to leave. Some people even demanding more referendums until they get the right answer.

                  "Of course, you don't want another referrendum as you know you'll lose"

                  It wouldnt matter. This is the democracy part, we vote, we implement and after a time we could look to change things. Unfortunately some people seem to think democracy is to keep voting until it gives the 'right' answer and then stop.

                  "Democracy is what people want now, not in the past"

                  You might want to go back to school for that one sorry. We vote a political party in an election. We dont then immediately have another election because you dont like the result.

                  "The fact brexit hasn't happened yet is your problem. People have changed their minds."

                  it is a problem yes. For all of us. It means your opinion and mine and everyone else is worth nothing. We might as well have a dictator and give up on elections. That is the consequence of ditching democracy. You also claim people have changed their minds but then that is your opinion. We had a referendum and then even a GE and still we wanted to leave. Farage is polling high for the MEP elections.

                  "Why don't you tell us the real reason you want brexit?"

                  Because I believe its the right thing for the country. Economics, trade, democracy, sovereignty are all good reasons to leave.

                  "Are you ashamed?"

                  Of our government yes. Of the people demanding to overturn democracy yes. Of those determined to keep us trapped in the EU yes.

                  "If you cared about democracy you wouldn't be against another referrendum, after all, which ever side wins, democracy will have spoken."

                  Lets assume that is true and democracy would be served by another referendum. Then the same would apply to the referendum we already had on the same subject and it reflects the desires of those who voted. So democracy has already spoken, its time to listen.

    2. NATTtrash
      Trollface

      Re: Makes sense

      What about cheap real estate..? I mean, with companies leaving that would leave empty buildings right?

      Then again, it isn't all that bad right? Come on guys, let's take a X week break. It's not that there is any current biz that demands our attention...

  2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Invalid comparison with Sony

    Sony only moved its European HQ from the UK to the Netherlands, very different thing entirely.

    Global HQ will want access to capital markets and favourable corporate tax arrangements which is why London, New York but also Singapore and Hong Kong are popular. If the company is already trading globally then there will be marginal effects due to the UK leaving the EU for an HQ moving from Japan. It will still have a subsidiary in the EU set up to manage EU business in the most tax efficient way before handing any money over to the mothership.

    1. NATTtrash
      Meh

      Re: Invalid comparison with Sony

      It is less dramatic if you read some more detail. But tax does seem to play a role here according to Sony. For the full story here:

      https://www.parool.nl/amsterdam/europees-hoofdkantoor-sony-terug-naar-nederland~a4621909/

      https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2019/01/23/brexit-sony-haalt-europese-hoofdkantoor-naar-nederland-a3651369

      (Both Dutch and cookie-wall)

      In short:

      [[]] In the 60s Sony established an EMEA HQ in the Netherlands

      [[]] 15 years ago, they decided to split it up and move "some parts" to Berlin and London.

      [[]] Officially, on the Sony org chart, the Netherlands remained the EMEA HQ.

      [[]] This is mainly a "formal", or "paper" relocation.

      [[]] Official Sony statement: "This is done to ensure continuation when UK leaves EU"

      [[]] Official Sony statement: "Move is also done with tax in mind. Sony is worried that UK after Brexit will be seen as a "tax haven" under the very strict Japanese tax rules".

      [[]] Panasonic did the same (i.e. move from UK to NL).

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    OMG someone forgot the EU is the centre of the Universe

    Signed,

    Remainer

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Wait

      Wait, something exists outside of the EU?

      Burn the witch!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      We're gaining NTT! The other 20+ big companies confirmed leaving are just silly foreigner types who don't give the empire the respect we deserve.

      "1 - 20" against us... We're winning guys!

      Scrawled,

      Leaver

      https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit-damaged-city-of-london-2018-11?r=US&IR=TM

      https://www.compelo.com/companies-leaving-the-uk-after-brexit/

      https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/companies-leaving-threatening-leave-uk-15725311

      1. veti Silver badge

        Remainers have been banging on endlessly about the relentless Brexodus of companies and jobs from the UK.

        You can't blame Leavers for wanting to point out that there are swings as well as roundabouts.

        1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

          It's a pity their swings are so small though.

      2. Tom Graham

        Factually incorrect again.

        You read this article and assumed that this is the only company that is moving jobs or investment to the UK "despite Brexit"?

        Niether of your numbers - 1 or 20 are remotely accurate. It takes more to work out the net change in inward investment since we voted to leave the EU than comparing one Register article about one company to another article in Business Insider.

  4. codejunky Silver badge

    Ha

    In spite of brexit? Is this tripe still being pushed? Bad news- because of brexit, good news- despite brexit. Its almost like there wasnt a country without the EU. That figment of someones desire that has existed for a short time and spent a good portion of that time in self inflicted crises.

    Business decisions dont have to be because or despite brexit. They can be on the value of the decision.

    1. JoelLkins
      Facepalm

      Re: Ha

      > In spite of brexit? Is this tripe still being pushed?

      Uh huh. When Hard Brexit comes, how much will trade slow down now that every lorry will need to be inspected for proper paperwork?

      How long before The Troubles 2.0 start?

      How long before the situation in Gibraltar requires a response?

      1. Rupert Fiennes Bronze badge

        Re: Ha

        We're doomed! Doomed!

        Not really.

        55% of our trade is with the rest of the world, mostly on WTO terms. They inspect about 2% of it on average. If you want to inspect 100%, you clearly have a lower opinion of your sainted EU partners than the rest of us, n'est-ce pas?

        NI hasn't had a government for two years, since the idiot Good Friday agreement specified that nothing can be done unless both sides agree, which sooner or later was going to break down. Strangely enough, still no sign of "Troubles no2".

        And Gibraltar is still in the same situation it's been in for the last 300+ years. And it's still there, although I hear the monkeys are even worse than usual!

      2. DuncanLarge Bronze badge

        Re: Ha

        "When Hard Brexit comes, how much will trade slow down now that every lorry will need to be inspected for proper paperwork?"

        Why would we want to do that?

        Do you think some jobsworth in the gov is going to get away with doing that just because the clocks changed at midnight? They would be strung up.

        Honestly think man. They are OUR ports, controlled by OUR say so. Nothing will change the very next second after midnight on the 31st of Oct. Why?

        What rules changed between us and the EU at 1am on the 1st of Nov? None. Not a single one. We have already implemented everything they have and have done so for 40 years. Every standard they have is ours. Every truck coming out of the EU and entering our ports is of EU origin so why the hell would any stops need to be done?

        Any changes to the process would be implemented over a longer period of time as time moves on our rules may diverge. But not the next day! Not the next 2 months!

        Oh and btw, bit of news for you about a new technology you havnt heard of. Its called a computer connected to the internet. A wonderful device. Basically, and try to keep calm when I tell you this, these magical things have eliminated paperwork! Most trucks these days dont carry bits of dead tree to be checked, unless as a backup for when the computer is broken.

        Another bit of homework for you. How fast does trade get off the ships when it lands at Southampton? Trade from outside the EU? Hint, those internet connected computers are bloody fast little things.

        Only someone who has a death wish would instruct our own ports to check EU trucks the day after brexit. Any delay would have their name plastered in all the papers. Think man.

        1. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: Ha

          According to the WTO rules, which apparently we're all suddenly such fans of, you can't descriminate between countries you don't have a bilateral agreement with them and you can't discriminate depending on the border without a bilateral agreement either.

          So you can't do no/spot checks just for goods coming from the EU unless you have a bilateral agreement with the WU nor can you can't pretend the NI border isn't there without an agreement in place with that (that's where the backstop comes in).

          So if we wave everything through, anyone who wants to offload chlorinated chicken in will sell it to the UK knowing that it won't be stopped...

          Also, we trade on WTO terms with the rest of the world apart from 71 countries where we have bilateral agreements through the EU, including the Everything But Arms initiative. If you remove gold from the equation it's 50% EU-50% ROW. I think no deal Brexit prep has managed deals with 7 minicountries up till now so Fox has to pull his finger out.

          Which begs the question, if we leave, there will be a tariff hit on the 50% from the EU... how will we replace that from the ROW quickly?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Ha

          Typical response from a Brexitter ignorant of the situation... And you wonder why you guys are described as expecting "pink unicorns", when every pro-brexit point made has no grounding in reality?

          Why do you think such statements have been made? Do you think top business and economic experts were just using "Project Fear" to fool everyone, but you've seen through their evil plan?

          Please read up on trading rules, particularly in respect to the WTO. It may save you some embarassment.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Ha

      "In spite of brexit?"

      For selecting a global HQ membership of the EU is a no-op. London will remain on the globe.

      For a business requiring an EU presence a post-Brexit UK will no longer meet the spec.

  5. Kez
    Devil

    "a wealth of human capital"

    It's phrases like this that reveal exactly what international megacorps think of us lowly fleshbags. We're not people, just 'capital' to be exploited.

    1. veti Silver badge

      That's not fair. We're also potential customers, and potential shareholders.

      How else would you like them to think of us, exactly?

      1. Kez

        Just an observation. I don't see anything wrong with it as such - businesses exist to make money, not give you the warm and fuzzies - it just struck me as moderately callous language, which is apt for how large companies see their employees and customers.

  6. Abdul-Alhazred

    Why not?

    Full disclosure: I'm a Yank and basically agnostic about Brexit.

    Why not London as a headquarters city?

    It's not like London wasn't an attractive venue *before* y'all joined the EU.

    If it were (for example) a French or German company I'd say something different.

    1. Tom Graham

      Re: Why not?

      Because Remainers believe that Brexit will be the end of the world - that we need to be members of the EU for any business or trade or commercial activity to be possible, that it is impossible to trade with other countries if not a member of the EU, that no overseas business has any reason to invest in Britain other than it's membership of the EU.

      Basically that we are dependent on membership of the EU for any economic activity, for all of our legal rights and to prevent war immediately breaking out with the rest of the world.

      If you wonder why people in the UK believe this it is because that is what our government, state media and entire political establishment have been telling them for years.

  7. jwa

    66% of our trade is with the EU or countries with a trade agreement with the EU. We have hundreds of trading arangements with the USA alone, all gone with a crash out Brexit. No country in the world trades only on WTO terms.

    1. Abdul-Alhazred

      Trading only on WTO terms?

      It seems to me the UK did a lot of trading outside Europe before the UK joined the EU. All manner of agreements, not trading only on WTO terms.

      Without definitively claiming Brexit is any damn good, I assert that not everything bad or unusual in the UK is caused by it, nor will it immanentize the eschaton.

      As it might be climate change, Trump being president, infidels occupying Palestine, or what have you.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Trading only on WTO terms?

        "It seems to me the UK did a lot of trading outside Europe before the UK joined the EU. All manner of agreements, not trading only on WTO terms."

        Those agreements were replaced by agreements with and via the EU (as it now is). Leaving the EU doesn't magic them back into existence so leaving means that the only extant agreements will be those that Fox has negotiated. He still seems keen that we leave PDQ but so far he hasn't done much on his contribution to making that possible without economic damage.

      2. veti Silver badge

        Re: Trading only on WTO terms?

        That was a long time ago. There *was* no "WTO" back then.

        I agree with you, I think there is a truly unbelievable amount of doom-mongering going on right now among Remainers who have still not given up on the dream of reversing the referendum result. And on a purely personal basis, I hope they succeed. But I wish both sides could start using rational arguments presented in good faith, because decisions made in a state of hysteria are unlikely to stick.

    2. thames

      Canada will sign a trade agreement with the UK duplicating existing terms (CETA) as soon as the UK figures out what it is going to do, whether it is in or out. Any "gap" will be filled by temporary arrangements to make the transition seamless. This was a commitment given by both PMs following a meeting in Ottawa a year or so ago. It was also announced at the same time that this would be followed up by beginning negotiations on a newer trade deal which was more comprehensive than the existing one.

      The UK has already signed a series of treaties with Canada in matters which affect trade but which fall outside of the EU's exclusive trade jurisdiction in preparation for a no-deal Brexit, and I know the same has been done with a number of other countries (e.g. Japan and others).

      Canada doesn't care whether the UK is in the EU or out of the EU and has no interest in getting involved in EU-UK playground squabbles. We just know that almost half of our trade with the EU is with Britain and we want that trade to continue without interruption. I would imagine that most other countries feel the same way.

      Whether you Brexit or don't Brexit, that's all up to you, we don't care. Just let us know when you've made up your minds and we'll figure out how to deal with it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Well you had to, right? Being a colony and such. But I agree with you, you summarize the key points well:

        ...as soon as the UK figures out what it is going to do...

        Whether you Brexit or don't Brexit, that's all up to you, we don't care.

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge

      I am pretty much astounded that you were downvoted even once for this comment. Are really that many people in El Reg's commentariat who still believe that the UK doesn't have trade agreements with any country outside the EU or that basic WTO terms are anything other than a safety net while a country scrambles to get trade agreements set up?

  8. Stern Fenster

    Re: Honda's planned closure of its Swindon plant

    Didn't Honda go to considerable trouble to point out that this was nothing to do with Brexit but entirely due to the state of the global car industry? (emphasis on *global*).

    1. codejunky Silver badge

      Re: Honda's planned closure of its Swindon plant

      @Stern Fenster

      "Didn't Honda go to considerable trouble to point out that this was nothing to do with Brexit"

      Careful. If you start using facts the remainers will descend upon you with froth.

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Honda's planned closure of its Swindon plant

      It was actually about Brexit, or so says Nikkei.

      She's an expert, if we still believe them.

      She is unsurprised at London being chosen as a global hub, but it would be better still if the UK stays in the EU.

      1. codejunky Silver badge

        Re: Honda's planned closure of its Swindon plant

        @Dan 55

        "It was actually about Brexit, or so says Nikkei."

        So we shouldnt believe Honda. The ones who made the decision, thought it through, probably discussed and debated the reasoning, who have an intimate understanding of the decision making process to bring about the end decision.

        Instead we should believe someone you found claiming its for other reasons?

        "She is unsurprised at London being chosen as a global hub, but would be better still if the UK stays in the EU."

        That makes little sense-

        To counteract brexit we should become a global hub makes sense. Instead of the world ending at EU borders our world becomes the freaking world.

        Being in the EU would be more helpful to this? That makes no sense. If the way to counter the effects of brexit is to open up to the world then remaining would be the worst thing. It limits our borders and removes that global openness she was just spouting.

        "She's an expert, if we still believe them."

        Be careful when selecting experts. Remain got burned badly with their experts- Carney, Osborne, Cameron and the predictions of a recession immediately on a brexit result, then moved to art50 being handed over, now some point in the future but its still brexit's fault. And various expert predictions that hit the deck so fast remainers have had to ditch so many of their reasons to remain or be shamed for lack of integrity.

        1. Dan 55 Silver badge

          Re: Honda's planned closure of its Swindon plant

          So we shouldnt believe Honda. The ones who made the decision, thought it through, probably discussed and debated the reasoning, who have an intimate understanding of the decision making process to bring about the end decision.

          There are plenty of reasons why a business, Japanese or otherwise, doesn't shout "y'all done fucked up" from the rooftops when winding down, alienating potential customers and walking into a political storm are just two of them. But Honda's opposition to Brexit in any form which causes more difficulty trading with rEU as well as other Japanese car companies and Japanese business in general has been well reported. The Japanese ambassador for one spelt it out outside Number 10.

          Instead we should believe someone you found claiming its for other reasons?

          This person does seem to be particularly knowledgeable about Japanese business culture, but she wasn't claiming it, she was pointing to an article on Nikkei which said it. I double dare you to say that Nikkei doesn't know what it's talking about when it comes to Japanese business culture.

          Being in the EU would be more helpful to this? That makes no sense. If the way to counter the effects of brexit is to open up to the world then remaining would be the worst thing. It limits our borders and removes that global openness she was just spouting.

          Here's the thing, being part of the EU doesn't mean the world ends at the EU's borders, that's why the UK has trade agreements with 71 other countries through the EU. Including Japan, until it leaves.

          Be careful when selecting experts.

          I couldn't care less about Cameron or Osborne, that combination of clowns has ended up causing huge damage to the UK. Carney however got to work the next day to avoid his predictions coming true, unfortunately it took a tonne of QE.

          And various expert predictions that hit the deck so fast remainers have had to ditch so many of their reasons to remain or be shamed for lack of integrity.

          If you don't believe experts, believe British businesses themselves.

          1. codejunky Silver badge

            Re: Honda's planned closure of its Swindon plant

            @Dan 55

            "But Honda's opposition to Brexit in any form which causes more difficulty trading with rEU as well as other Japanese car companies and Japanese business in general has been well reported"

            That goes in direct contrast with your previous claim- There are plenty of reasons why a business, Japanese or otherwise, doesn't shout "y'all done fucked up". Either they are widely reported as being against brexit and using the obvious and easy scapegoat that is brexit (used by other companies excusing everything but the weather) or they actually mean what they say. It takes more guts to not blame brexit and to do so currently so I would actually believe them when they say it isnt the reason. Certainly against someone outside guessing.

            "but she wasn't claiming it, she was pointing to an article on Nikkei which said it"

            So outsider vs the business itself not taking the easy way out by blaming brexit. Again the company is likely more reliable.

            "I double dare you to say that Nikkei doesn't know what it's talking about when it comes to Japanese business culture."

            And the goalpost shifts. Outsider guessing the reason for Honda closing UK plant vs actual Honda themselves saying outright brexit isnt the reason. And your attempt to reenforce the credentials of this outsider guess is 'I dare you to say they dont know Japanese culture'. I dont care if they know every Asian culture outsider guess vs the very people themselves on Honda's motives.

            Aka horses mouth vs mindreader.

            "Here's the thing, being part of the EU doesn't mean the world ends at the EU's borders"

            Awesome! So lets go make our own trade agreements, scrap the EU tariffs and quotas and get on with the world.... Oh wait. Nope the world ends at the EU borders.

            "I couldn't care less about Cameron or Osborne, that combination of clowns has ended up causing huge damage to the UK"

            We can agree on that.

            "Carney however got to work the next day to avoid his predictions coming true, unfortunately it took a tonne of QE."

            Actually no. Carney ended up having to backtrack on what problems we faced since brexit was more damp squib than he and other 'experts' led people to believe. Aka they were caught with their pants on fire and quite seriously.

            "If you don't believe experts, believe British businesses themselves."

            Again with not believing experts. I just said be careful which experts you choose since remainers got burned by lying experts really badly. I am impressed by that link! They actually willingly publicly announced they polled a whole 89 CFO's in total. And the only conclusion to come from it is what we already know- its not brexit its the uncertainty causing the problems.

            Now to put that in context- Brexit requires nothing more complicated than a unilateral decision to stop participating in the EU. Thats it, we can do that at any time its that easy. We had 2 years to prepare for that and instead we have had every attempt to remain. We have a parliament at a standstill because they are debating the type of remain we should have. We have Mays deal to stay in permanently, various suggestions of remaining in one thing or another and an absolute effort not to brexit.

            Aka remain caused the damage (uncertain to brexit) and continuing remainer efforts are continuing the damage. That doesnt mean we couldnt talk about some sort of trade deal but brexit is simple to deliver and can be done right away. The infighting is to remain in some way or other.

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