back to article Oracle swings axe on cloud infrastructure corps amid possible bloodbath at Big Red

Oracle has laid off about 40 people in its Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) group in Seattle – and on Friday began notifying about 250 workers at its Redwood City facility and about 100 at its Santa Clara location, both in California, that they will be let go in May. These US-based layoffs are part of a broad round of job cuts around …

  1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

    Tea Leaves?

    If the cloud is the fast growing division it seems that there would be very few layoffs in that group. Some of the other groups seeing layoffs might be expected. Layoffs in the cloud group indicates to me that there is something not well with the group's sales and market share; like not very good and falling respectively. Of course this my reading of the tea leaves.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Tea Leaves?

      The tea leaves are never accurate. Until the point that everything is pointing to running a global cloud business being a hugely expensive and very competitive process where many of the strategic battles were won 5-10 years ago and that the other players are beginning to realise they can’t compete on scale, price or by relying on their existing customer bases.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: Tea Leaves?

        Firms are with Oracle because they are stuck with legacy systems that they are scared to replace. Oracle know this and are happily screwing license money out of them.

        Having been treated this way by Oracle, they are not likely to be looking favourably on their cloud product when they are doing new stuff. Once bitten and all that.

  2. This post has been deleted by its author

  3. Lost In Clouds of Data
    Flame

    Going to guess that after the bloodbath has completed...

    ...the executives who swung the axe will reward themselves with juicy bonuses as a reward for taking "strong affirmative action to help lower corporate costs, introduce bi-departmental synergies and streamline product to market processes". Can't be easy for them after all having to develop bullshit excuses.

    Joking aside, who the hell uses Oracle cloud these days? I keep hearing about Google, Azure and AWS but sweet FA about Oracle's cloud offering. I'm highly doubtful this action will convince anyone who was on the fence that somehow Oracle's the place to be - far from it in fact: If anything this paints a picture of a corporation desperately trying to IBM itself.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Going to guess that after the bloodbath has completed...

      “...the executives who swung the axe will reward themselves with juicy bonuses“

      While it won’t bring much comfort to those affected, the rest of us can at least chuckle when Larry goes cap in hand to Google to host his cloud customers to avoid having to swallow his pride and use Azure or AWS in spite of them actually providing the coverage Oracle lacks.

      And I’m not convinced Google’s model (very well connected DCs but without the quantity to ensure the latency advantages that provides or Google’s willingness to adapt) will be Oracles saviour.

      1. Jack of Shadows Silver badge

        Re: Going to guess that after the bloodbath has completed...

        It "seems" that Google may be shifting focus to the B2C (witness game streaming, et al.) vice an enterprise focus which hasn't ever worked out well to date. Even then they still screw up (G+ the latest.) I could certainly be wrong.

      2. Claptrap314 Bronze badge

        Re: Going to guess that after the bloodbath has completed...

        I've not been following GCP that closely, but having seen G's insides up close & comparing what we see of AWS, I would be hedging any bets on AWS.

        G's internals have been architected for reliability & scalability from the ground up. I've not looked into their pricing, but they have the ability to destroy AWS on inter-DC traffic costs. Inter-DC traffic is the basis of reliability. You simply cannot have all your eggs in one DC if you want three nines, let alone five or so.

        As for total latency, G focused first on their core. The CDN that they are building out should cause CloudFlare to drop bricks.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Going to guess that after the bloodbath has completed...

          None of that is true

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Oracle cloud was terrible

    Having tested it around a year after it came out, it was crap! They only allowed Linux so if you had Oracle DBs on any other tin, Windows, Solaris, HP, IBM, you were either screwed or had to do a shed load of conversions. The direct conversions could be done through their utils but it was a very tedious error prone process which took us 6 months to get right, so much for the PR. The even worse alternative a huge dump out of your DB and then import over the wire. 18 months of promises for Solaris VMs to be delivered in the Oracle cloud we dumped the idea of using Oracle cloud. If were going to have to go all that, it's not worth it, we either go SQL Server, which is straight copy to Azure or AWS or look to use an open source DB alternatives like PostgreSQL or NoSQL which all the big vendors support.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Oracle cloud was terrible

      You mean you can port your Oracle database to any of the one you mentioned - especially a NoSQL one (!) - but even Postgres, in less time? Especially since whatever was still running on HP or Solaris has a chances of not being something small and simple?

      And I'm quite sure Oracle Cloud cold be terrible....

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Oracle cloud was terrible

      EnterpriseDB - Postgres with support + oracle compatability tooling

      1. JLV Silver badge

        Re: Oracle cloud was terrible

        How good is it as a dropin Oracle replacement on things like PL/SQL and Oracle-specific functions, like date parsing? Even connect strings? Or is it a major conversion effort? And, do you get to keep the, rather brilliant, base Postgresql behavior in addition to Oracle compatibility?

        I am very much aware of its existence, but devil’s often in the details, hence question

        1. Ken 16 Silver badge

          Re: Oracle cloud was terrible

          Not perfect, as you'd expect. It's one of those things where it depends how much you've done with Oracle. It's pretty good with Oracle specific functions. I would hate to move something with heavy PL/SQL stored procedures (but then I hate their existence in the first place). You do get to keep the good bits of PostgreSQL, the EnterpriseDB is mostly marketing plus some add ons and the cloudy hosting.

  5. vorsprung

    I work for Oracle, with part of the "old" cloud unit

    Last week, half of the global team for managing the service I do support for got laid off, including my line manager

    This old version of customer cloud is called OCI-C, this has lots of features and customers and has been around for a few years

    This is the part that I work with. The old version is all in house (and some Openstack) and grew out of the old datacentres that Oracle has run for years, before "cloud" was a thing. It reused old systems that were suited to a more beaucratic way of working

    The new version of cloud which is confusingly called OCI is continuing with development and hiring at a pace. This has been built in Seattle by people who are mostly ex-AWS.

    The OCI-C people for the old cloud are being let go in droves. I have avoided the chop so far!

    1. Steve K Silver badge

      Is OCI-C the new name for OMCS?

      Is OCI-C the same as the OMCS (Oracle Managed Cloud Services) hosting bit?

  6. cadders
    Mushroom

    No Change There Then

    From the Article

    "The cuts affect application developers, data scientists, business analysts, graphic designers, IT managers, market researchers, communications professionals, product managers, QA analysts, software developers, systems admins, web designers and others."

    So oracle are getting rid of the few techies left who know what they're doing ( IT Managers being the obvious exception)

    Sales, Marketing, HR and Licensing Nazis are all safe then

    What a surprise.....

    1. far2much4me

      Re: No Change There Then

      Lawyers! Don't forget the lawyers! I don't see any of them being laid off.

      1. Mpeler
        Mushroom

        Re: No Change There Then

        Ahhh, Lawyers. Get them all in one place..

        Reminds me of

        Larry, Larry, quite contrary,

        How does your empire grow?

        With IP "rights" and patent fights

        And lawyers, all in a row.

  7. Rudolph Hucker the Third
    Go

    Hey, you, get off of my cloud.

  8. Milton Silver badge

    The entrapment model

    The entrapment model of doing business got a huge lift from 'cloud'. By persuading customers—G³ executives*, for the most part—that they could sack lots of expensive skilled people and rake in the savings as their IT systems morphed into magical excellence in the 'cloud', grazing peacefully alongside unicorns, the big providers extended the 'ecosystem' approach they had previously been using to entrap the public, and managed to imprison many large enterprises on their systems, with data and process held hostage by largely unnecessary proprietary dependencies and the fact that those enterprises no longer had the skills to fend for themselves (it's the PUNJI† business model). Prices rise; performance falls; and the G³ types do what they always do: polish up the CV and stay one step ahead of their last disaster.

    The surprise is that Oracle weren't better at this, sooner. Once, they had a world-beating RDBMS. (Yes, I remember the days when Oracle had an actually good product that was actually, if you were an enterprise, worth the money.) Then it became just another very expensive RDBMS, increasingly barnacled with poorly integrated bought/borrowed/copied applications and suites. Now it is a horrible jungle of eywateringly expensive processes and data, encrusted with crap, barely able to float, clumsy, inefficient, riddled with duplication, overlap and blind spots, with vast swamps of marketing bullshit stinking the place up. For at least 15 years Oracle has been all about squeezing hapless victims who can't escape, often forcing shabby and shoddily-integrated rubbish upon them, while desperately seeking any remaining G³ naifs still clueless enough to look their salesgorgons in the eye. You'd have thought that 'cloud' was absolutely made for a slowly dying behemoth like Oracle, fitting directly into its own PUNJI model.

    So I would suggest it speaks to a very special level of strategic incompetence that Oracle were so slow to embrace an entirely new method of entrapping customers into paying through the nose for rubbish they didn't need. Most unlike them. (The probable explanation is the steady trickle-down of Ellison's self-destructive arrogance, which has been poisoning the Oracle water for a very long time..)

    Anyway, it's good that Oracle's cloud is failing. Pretty much anything that hastens the demise of this pathology of a business is to be welcomed.

    * Greedy Gullible Gobshytes

    † PUNJI :: Patently Unwitting Nincompoops Jump In. Note this is distinct from the outsourcers' approach, whereby they infiltrate clients until the latter become no more than life support mechanisms for the outsourcers they thought would help them save money (In MBA jargon, the TAPEWORM‡ model).

    ‡ TAPEWORM :: Targeted At Parasitising Enterprises With Outsourcers' Revenue Maximisation

    1. Dedobot

      Re: The entrapment model - upvote of course

      Mr. Milton wins the Internet today !

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