back to article They're BAAACK: Windows 10 nagware team loads trebuchet with annoying reminders to GTFO Windows 7

Windows 7 holdouts have been warned to expect a notification suggesting that perhaps an upgrade might be in order. Matt Barlow, corporate veep for Windows, has promised Windows 7 users are to receive a "courtesy reminder" that support is running out for the venerable OS as 14 January 2020 looms large. Barlow also noted that …

  1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    users will have an option to "do not notify me again".

    To be implemented by running the update so no further notification is needed. MS have form on this.

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      They recently did something similar for MS Office, meaning I was getting very frequent notifications to enable auto-updating. Now, I normally do install the updates fairly quickly, but given their size and that I'm often on other people's networks, I don't think this is such a good idea for patches that are often more than 1 GB.

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge

      I don't run automatic updates now because of this and terrible QA. I keep an eye on https://www.askwoody.com/ instead.

      1. EPurpl3

        I use woody as well, he is very good at what he's doing :D

    3. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Trollface

      I suggest they include a "Fuck OFF!" button to PERMANENTLY stop ALL nagging, but that would make too much sense...

      (yeah I haven't run windows update on my 7 boxen and VMs in a while, now, and dno't plan on it anyway, I never surf the web on them, they work fine as-is, and they're behind a firewall of MY OWN DESIGN. And I practice "safe surfing" on the web, from my non-windows machines and devices. Should not have any problems for a LONG time to come!)

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        But...

        People like you are just not worth the trouble of bothering with. They want everyone in the world to use the disaster area that is Windows 10.

        I passed on that more than 2.5 years ago and have not looked back.

        Linux and MacOS provide a far more sane environment than W10 has and possible could ever do.

        Windows is a ship that has sailed a long time ago from my port and there is a battery of 15in guns at the entrance just to make sure it never returns.

        1. Waseem Alkurdi Silver badge

          Re: But...

          You've forgotten the (/s), since @bombastic bob is known for his pathological hate of Win-10-nic.

      2. Version 1.0 Silver badge

        First W10, then Brexit, and now Bombastic Bob is getting more up votes than down votes ... our world is spinning out of control ... Hey! What’s this thing suddenly coming towards me very fast? Very very fast. So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide sounding name like … ow … ound … round … ground! That’s it! That’s a good name – ground!

        I wonder if it will be friends with me?

        1. Teiwaz Silver badge

          I wonder if it will be friends with me?

          Hmm, to continue within wisdom of the church of DNA, I think it's way past time you bought an inside out seaside retirement villa and changed your name to Wonko....

        2. Syn3rg

          And the petunias thought,

          "Not again".

      3. MachDiamond Silver badge

        I'm sort of the same way. My Windows machine isn't connected to the internet at all so Win7 is fine. It means I don't have to spend a load of money on a new box and my software will keep working. The last time I noticed, there was only one program with significant new features that would be "nice to have", but every other SW update the the applications that I run (CAD/CAM mostly) just have "features" that don't do me a blind bit of good. They are fantastic for hardware vendors since those new features need another 4 cores of CPU to not be used.

        The UI of Win10 is a joke. It looks like a deep collaboration with Fisher-Price. Sometimes the paint work is shiny enough and it's time to get under the hood and install more horsepower or a few mods for better mileage.

  2. Dabooka Silver badge
    Stop

    Oh well,

    Looks like the missus is getting Linux on our aging but faultless laptop soon then.

    I'm not upgrading for the sake of it when it's little more than a glorified browser and CD ripping device.

    1. TVU Silver badge

      Re: Oh well,

      "Looks like the missus is getting Linux on our aging but faultless laptop soon then"

      What I'd suggest doing is trying out Linux Mint Mate or Linux Lite as they are both Windows-like and they are easy to use. Good luck!

      1. staringatclouds

        Re: Oh well,

        I've got zorin on an ancient laptop, that doesn't look bad

      2. TheTick

        Re: Oh well,

        Even my going on 70 mother is using Linux Mint without any problems, so believe me if she can - anyone can!

        1. Whiznot

          Re: Oh well,

          I installed Mint for senior citizen relatives when 98se went end-of-life and they never realized that they no longer had Windows. I plan on keeping Win 7 for WMC and its ability to record and play protected content. Malware worries me less than Windows 10 does.

        2. Far out man
          Stop

          Re: Oh well,

          Wonderful, managed to be ageist and sexist in one single post.

          As a Septuagenarian with over 30 years experience in IT, I understand how IT workers / enthusiasts are looked down upon by many. It is not the Geekiness either

          1. Waseem Alkurdi Silver badge

            Re: Oh well,

            For God's sake, who made 'ageist' (*) a word?

            _______

            (*) Falls in the same bin as 'speciest'. SPECIEST? Is that a superlative form on crack?

          2. Kiwi Silver badge
            Thumb Down

            Re: Oh well,

            Wonderful, managed to be ageist and sexist in one single post.

            Well, my tech-NOT brother loves Linux as well, as to other rellies and non-tech friends. Or people who just want their computers to start quickly, do they job, and shut down quickly and without fuss.

            Oh dear, I was also being sexist and ageist by referencing my brother. Or to put it another way, way to completely mis-read the point of the post FOM, and to hi-jack it for some imagined and non-existant slur against yourself or your own class of people (now who's being 'ageist and sexist'?!)

    2. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Oh well,

      >Looks like the missus is getting Linux on our aging but faultless laptop soon then.

      Given it is for domestic usage, I would take your time on that.

      Whilst MS won't be issuing updates/fixes after Jan 2020, you can expect most third-parties ie. security suite vendors, browser vendors to continue supporting Win7 for 2~3 years.

      For the elderly parents (90+), I've done exactly this and installed EMET 5.5 (needs a few changes so that newer more secure applications will load and run, but EMET security warning messages are a helpful in this task).

      1. Ian Emery Silver badge

        Re: Oh well,

        MicroShaft are already REMOVING drivers they dont want you using to extend the life of your Win7 install; go try and get the NVME winDriver - nope, sorry, you can only have it if you run Win10 now, cos they have deleted the Win7/8/8.1 version.

        1. veti Silver badge

          Re: Oh well,

          Eh? I looked, and I can still see NVMe drivers aplenty. Here's

          Samsung's, for example, and here's Intel's, both of them claiming to support Windows 7.

        2. toejam13

          Re: Oh well,

          If you are using that NVMe drive as a boot drive, you'd probably want the driver package from the manufacturer's website so that you can slipstream it onto your Windows 7 installation media. Can't do that with the driver from Windows Update, AFAIK.

    3. holmegm

      Re: Oh well,

      > Looks like the missus is getting Linux on our aging but faultless laptop soon then.

      If my missus's crafting machines worked with Linux, I'd be saying the same.

      Since they don't ... garr.

      1. jelabarre59 Silver badge

        Re: Oh well,

        If my missus's crafting machines worked with Linux, I'd be saying the same.

        Since they don't ... garr.

        Not even anything so useful and creative here. In this house it's fecking Roblox.

        1. holmegm

          Re: Oh well,

          Oy.

    4. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

      Re: Oh well,

      SWAMBO requested her Linux Mint partition be upgraded and the Bloat 8.1 partition trashed a few months back on her laptop. Was happy to oblige.

    5. Cavehomme_ Bronze badge

      Re: Oh well,

      Been there, done it, at least ten years ago, wife ecstatic ;o)

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft (if a person) would be locked up in any other walk of life...

    For abusive dominating behaviour, the people at Microsoft deciding on this type of policy, have all the hallmarks of someone that carries out domestic abuse.

    Do they take their work home or vice versa?

    Microsoft should think again - we don't need your outdated 'persuasive approach', it's 2019.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Microsoft (if a person) would be locked up in any other walk of life...

      "For abusive dominating behaviour"

      No, they'd become a CEO.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: become a CEO

        Thanks for the laugh, because it's so often true. .

        I know a person who got increasingly abusive and dominating as their career took off. Today they are a CEO and the abusive and dominating behaviour has me looking forward to our times together. One evening a guest brought a nice bottle of wine but not nice enough for the CEO who wouldn't open it and wanted it out of the room. CEO's have standards you know.

        Still laughing about that, though the person who brought the wine might not be laughing as hard.

        oops almost posted without checking Post anonymously. I guess I fear being the next bottle of unacceptable wine. Hahahaha

        1. Jove Bronze badge

          Re: become a CEO

          I know of one such example in the Social Health Care sector as well :)

          The most ignorant, and incompetent person I met - instant C-level material because no one would stand-up to the individual.

  4. DailyLlama

    The free upgrade hasn't gone away...

    If you install Windows 10 on a device that had an OEM licence, it will activate Windows 10 for you after a little while. If it doesn't, just run the activation troubleshooter.

    1. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: The free upgrade hasn't gone away...

      I've also heard that sticking in a valid Win 7/8 key when the Win10 installer asks will work as well. YMMV.

      1. Bob Asic

        Re: The free upgrade hasn't gone away...

        The free upgrade never went away. Just run the Windows 10 media creation tool on an activated copy of Windows 7 (excl. some versions like MSDN / Enterprise), select "Upgrade this PC" and away you go. Windows 10 will activate with a digital licence on first login. After that point the hard drive can be formatted if you like and Windows 10 installed again (with no product key) and after installation it will be activated automatically with same digital licence. All fully legitimate.

      2. MrDamage

        Re: The free upgrade hasn't gone away...

        Can confirm that it works for now. My old gaming laptop that I keep around to keep snotling relatives off my main rig, had it's old HDD die, so swapped it for an SSD and used the Win7 Pro key to download and install Win10.

        MrsDamage's laptop started playing up last night, with suspected HDD issues as well, so I'll be trying a Win8 key over the next couple of days.

  5. Shadow Systems Silver badge

    Is it stable yet?

    Can I install my screen reader & not worry that a forced update will brick it & leave me in the lurch?

    The 'reader requires that audio subsystem to be rock solid & I'm concerned that a forced update will leave me without a useable computer.

    Is Win10 stable yet?

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Is it stable yet?

      Ask people who got 1809 foisted upon them.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Is it stable yet?

        Better still, ask the people who still have a bricked laptop and/or the documents folder now empty of files.

      2. Khaptain Silver badge

        Re: Is it stable yet?

        Then I would reply, yes it is now quite stable. Its been a couple of weeks for me and not the slightest problem. Ok it's only for home use at the moment, Company refuses to let it in the door so I can't say for corporate use.

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: Is it stable yet?

          >yes it is now quite stable. Its been a couple of weeks for me and not the slightest problem.

          Interesting take on the word 'stable'; not had to rebuild or perform a detailed fault fix on my main Win7 laptop since I purchased it some years back and yes WuP is running... Now that is what I call stable.

        2. Whiznot

          Re: Is it stable yet?

          Koroush Ghazi quote below is the best comment about Windows 10.

          "Let’s talk about Windows 10, my least favorite subject right now. At the end of last year I announced that for personal and professional reasons, I would not be doing a TweakGuides Tweaking Companion for Windows 10, but that I would try to compile a brief Windows 10 tweak guide. Well I’ve tried, and I’m just not finding it possible to write a decent but brief guide. Windows 10 is an ever-changing, non-transparent, disjointed mess of an OS. Many of its annoyances can’t be successfully tweaked away, and those that can require pages and pages of explanation. Furthermore, any such guide would require constant editing over time as Microsoft alters Windows 10 on almost a monthly basis now."

          "But perhaps the single biggest reason I’m not motivated to write a Windows 10 guide is that I’ve rapidly lost all respect for Microsoft, and consequently have lost a great deal of interest in anything to do with their products. Microsoft’s clumsy, desperate, visionless push to get PC users to adopt dumbed-down mobile-oriented apps purely for their own commercial benefit; the unrelentingly persistent, unethical, and highly deceptive way they’re trying to trick less tech-savvy Windows 7 and 8.1 users into “upgrading” to Windows 10; and their insistence on reducing user choice and control over Windows have all left a very bad taste in my mouth. This is an inept company struggling for relevance in the mobile era by shamelessly abusing its monopoly on desktop operating systems, and I don’t want to play any part in helping them do that."

          1. Palebushman
            Coat

            Re: Is it stable yet?

            Koroush Ghazi has been the only reason why I have remained with MS thus far. His TweakGuides have been an inspiration to me ever since he first started compiling them. Between him and Black Viper, I have always had that warm fuzzy feeling when tweaking any of the Win OS's since the early XP days. As for Koroush's disenchantment with Microsoft's Windows 10, it clearly shows me that now is the best time to choose a better OS. Particularly as I have encountered so many problems trying to fix peoples machines, when they inadvertently clicked the 'Upgrade now' button that left them all messed up with an OS they couldn't use!

    2. N2 Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Is it stable yet?

      I really don't think W10 will ever be stable.

      If by some remote chance it ever was then you could guarantee the next update would bugger it all up.

      1. Dave K Silver badge

        Re: Is it stable yet?

        Agreed. Windows 10 by its very nature is unstable. Anything that changes every 6 months cannot be considered a stable platform.

        If you want Windows 10 and stable, LTSC is pretty much the only option here.

        1. Chris G Silver badge

          Re: Is it stable yet?

          I think I misread the question as ' is it A stable?'

          Well yes, I think it is a stable, it smells a bit and quite often there's a lot of shit to shovel out.

        2. Shadow Systems Silver badge

          At Dave K, re: LTSB.

          How can anon educational, non enterprise, non VLK license holder get their hands on such a beast?

          I'm currently on Win7Pro64 & don't have the kind of cash required to get the VLK that would enable suchLTSB functionality.

          How would "Joe Average" off the street get their hands on the LTSB version?

          1. Dave K Silver badge

            Re: At Dave K, re: LTSB.

            In all honesty? Piracy I'm afraid (or use the trial and keep re-installing it).

            Now, I'm not saying that I'm in favour of piracy generally speaking, but if you have a genuine license for Windows 10 and you instead bung a pirated copy of Windows 10 LTSC onto your machine, personally I find that OK from an ethical perspective. It's not my fault that MS makes LTSC such a sod to obtain legally, my machine still has a valid Windows 10 license (even if not for the edition of Win10 I'm using), and I personally refuse to use a copy of Windows 10 that keeps changing every 5 seconds at MS's control.

            1. Shadow Systems Silver badge

              Re: At Dave K, re: LTSB.

              Ah, piracy. Gotchya.

              Go enjoy a pint with my thanks.

            2. Waseem Alkurdi Silver badge

              Re: At Dave K, re: LTSB.

              This line of reasoning (from a legal point of view) is like carjacking a 2019 Mercedes-Benz S560 and driving away, simply because I have paid for a same-model-year-but-ten-times-cheaper Mercedes B-Class EV. It's not my fault that Mercedes built a crappy, generic four-door wagon with a limited drive range (compared to a regular car).

              However, your suggestion of renewing the trial is actually sound. After 90 days * 3 renewals (M$ calls them "rearms") = 270 days (nine months), Windows would need a reinstallation anyhow (because of the bloat that accumulated in the internim).

              1. Kiwi Silver badge
                Windows

                Re: At Dave K, re: LTSB.

                This line of reasoning (from a legal point of view) is like carjacking a 2019 Mercedes-Benz S560 and driving away, simply because I have paid for a same-model-year-but-ten-times-cheaper Mercedes B-Class EV. It's not my fault that Mercedes built a crappy, generic four-door wagon with a limited drive range (compared to a regular car).

                Actually it's more like seeing a garbage truck parked on the street, and taking some of the contents out and putting it into your own bin. You've not deprived anyone of anything of value, no one in their right mind would really want it unless they had no other choice.

                A Mercedes is of some value, W10 is not. The price of a Mercedes would pay for a couple of decent software testers for at least a year or two, whereas MS would never pay for software testing.

                1. Waseem Alkurdi Silver badge

                  Re: At Dave K, re: LTSB.

                  I get your argument ... but Windows 10 (to M$ at least) is worth money. It makes money selling Windows 10 licenses ... so that makes it an asset, no less important than a physical asset.

                  M$ also (purportedly) spends money on its development ...

                  I still stand corrected though, and I need to know what you think.

                  1. Dave K Silver badge

                    Re: At Dave K, re: LTSB.

                    Waseem, fully agree. And as stated, I have a valid Win10 Pro license for the one machine I have LTSC on. I can legally run Windows 10 Pro on this machine if I wanted to. If MS were to sell LTSC versions of Windows 10 for ordinary folk, I'd have been happy to obtain one instead - but they don't. The question is whether it is ethical to run a different edition of Windows that MS won't sell to ordinary people. Either way, MS has my money, so does it make any material difference to them if I pop LTSC onto my machine due to consumer Windows 10 versions being unsuitable for my needs?

                    Not saying it's an open and shut case here, people will always disagree about these things and it is a very grey area. However to be blunt, my attitude is that I want to run the version of Windows that suits my needs. If MS refuse to realistically sell me the edition that I want, I don't personally see it to be a problem with buying a different edition then sticking a cracked copy of the version I want on.

                    Of course, the reason MS won't sell LTSC to ordinary folk is that it'd mean fewer end-user-beta-testers for them to exploit...

    3. jsmith1202

      Re: Is it stable yet?

      You haven't been blind for very long, have you? Haven't you realized yet that we're not really human? You should be pleased that you can use a computer, that's cute and isn't it nice that the physically challenged can use machines at all? I mean sure, every time the machine boots, with Win 10 at least, only God knows if it's going to talk, but again, we should just be pleased that, most of the time, we're able to sort of use the computer. BTW, you shouldn't worry about the machine's sound failing, it gives you a chance for social interaction what with getting some poor person to help because, just as we're not human in the strict sense, we're surrounded by people who have nothing better to do with their time than to fix Microsoft's messes, and those same people are unimportant, I, for one, jump with joy when it comes time to take them away from what they're doing so they can help me out.

    4. elgarak1

      Re: Is it stable yet?

      Fro some reason, this "Is it stable?" reminds me of the movie "Marathon Man".

      May be a good idea to strap MS executives to a dentist's chair.

      "Is it stable?"

      "Gnnnnnnhhhnnnn"

      "Is it stable?" [presses on drill in tooth]

      "GNNNNNNnnnhHHHHnNNNn"

    5. MarkSitkowski

      Re: Is it stable yet?

      Stable? I've been frantically preparing a Win7 machine and transferring all my data, while the Win10 thing still works.

      Windows Upadate ("We're going to make Windows better, and add even more exciting features") has been running for all the hours the machine is switched on, 5 to 7 days a week since last June. It uses 95 - 100% of my CPU and about 4GB of RAM. Since I only use it as an xterm, to connect to a proper computer, it's not completely unusable, but it takes 1-2mins for windows explorer to start, and about half a minute to switch folders in Outlook. Windows won't let you turn off Update, and if you try to kill it or any of the four or five supporting processes, you're told it'll "make your PC unstable". Like that's worse than unusable.

      The Win Update 'troubleshooter' is useless. It tells you it's fixed all the problems, except for coquettishly telling you that "Windows Update components must be repaired", and leaving you to figure out the 'how'.

      I\ve checked on the Net, and I'm not the only one. There are hundreds of users whose PC's have been taken over by Windows Update, and some believe that it's really a bitcoin miner, although these latter tend to not arouse suspicion, by limiting CPU use to 50%.

      So far, none of the "exciting new features" have materialised and, even if they did, I wouldn't have enough CPU power left to run them.

      1. veti Silver badge

        Re: Is it stable yet?

        If you only use it as an xterm, why is Outlook running?

    6. Timmy B Silver badge

      Re: Is it stable yet?

      Yes. Windows 10 is very stable. More stable than 7. Regardless of what idiots say I have never - not once had a Widows 10 PC restart without me asking it to. I'm not even using anything special - stock PCs from Dell and Lenovo.

      1. Kiwi Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Is it stable yet?

        Regardless of what idiots say I have never - not once had a Widows 10 PC restart without me asking it to.

        Right..

        So your installation is broken in some way? Since, after all, the default behaviour is for W10 to automatically restart when there are updates to be installed, and unless you're present to hit any "postpone" prompt...

        1. Timmy B Silver badge

          Re: Is it stable yet?

          No. That is not the default behaviour. I am currently typing this on a Windows 10 PC that has downloaded and installed updates and is waiting for me to restart. I have not changed anything in the defaults. You are simply wrong. I don't even have the "we'll show a reminder when we're going to restart...." option turned on. I'll turn it off at the end of the day and let it finish doing the updates when I turn it back on on Monday.

  6. ratfox Silver badge
    Angel

    My father is still on XP. He's heard it might be safer, because nobody's targeting that anymore

    1. N2 Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Still on XP

      Smart move.

    2. Ramis101
      Go

      So am I

      Given that XP is also still getting patch tues updates( if you tell wupdates its a 'kiosk') i doubt very much that updates will be ending for W7 any time soon..... This is just more from the M$ data slurping (W10) marketing team

      Barclays (and prob many more) use W7 in their Human Cashier replacements....

      How do i know this? I crashed one once & it rebooted - wasn't even W7 embedded!

      1. toejam13

        Re: So am I

        I was thinking the same thing. My VM of XP was configured as a point-of-sales edition in order to keep the patches flowing. I assume that there will be a similar hack for Windows 7 desktops that will keep things humming until the extended EOL in October 2020.

  7. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Time, gentlemen, please

    TBH, any company still running Windows 7 does now need to define their migration process either to Windows 10 or something else and a reminder from Microsoft, maybe even once a month doesn't seem too unreasonable to me for software that is approaching its EOL. But users should definitely have the option to disable it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Time, gentlemen, please

      Though Win 7 is last supported OS for certain MS dev / test/ debug tools (without jumping through a lot of hoops) used to support legacy software running on legacy hardware.... try connecting a physical Win mobile CE5 or 6.x device and debugging the code on Win 10 if you fancy a challenge.

      Plenty of people running ancient software and hardware solutions that they are happy with (while they just keep on working no need for them to care about upgrades) users not bothered how old they are & still request the odd new feature (many would sooner run old win mobile kit, that is EOL, than fork out for new kit)

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: Time, gentlemen, please

        Like, I said you need to have a strategy. I still have a Windows 7 VM and will probably still have one next year. But such systems really should be the exception in any company by the end of the year.

        Of course, I should add, but of which no doubt you're only too well aware, of shitty MS support has been of the embedded systems, which can be a lot harder to replace than desktop systems.

      2. veti Silver badge

        Re: Time, gentlemen, please

        if you really, really want to keep using obsolete kit, then fine, carry on. But I venture to suggest, that doesn't apply to all that many people, and supporting exclusively those people - sounds like a very small market niche.

        Me, I'm feeling more smug than ever about my decision to install 8.1. Seriously, it's probably the last "good" Windows version.

        1. dajames Silver badge

          Re: Time, gentlemen, please

          I'm feeling more smug than ever about my decision to install 8.1. Seriously, it's probably the last "good" Windows version.

          For some value of "good".

          Generally, Windows has slid downhill from the lofty pinnacle of acceptability that was Windows 2000 towards the pit of ordure that is Windows 10. Windows 7 remains a rocky outcrop on the hillside that has not yet been buried under the encroaching glacier of "end of support", with Windows 8.1 visible as a little ridge between the depression of Windows 8 and the plunge into the festering chasm beyond.

        2. Waseem Alkurdi Silver badge

          Re: Time, gentlemen, please

          Me, I'm feeling more smug than ever about my decision to install 8.1. Seriously, it's probably the last "good" Windows version.

          This changed my downvote to an upvote.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Time, gentlemen, please

      You forget, Microsoft have past form here with GWX Nagware updates. They can't be trusted to do the right thing on this.

      As a person/org that strenuously spent an awful lot of time and effort to never install the GWX updates with Win7 updates set to choose/manual, I can tell you the number of attempts to install such GWX updates by Microsoft re-issuing the update(s) is close to 20 attempts. Even after the GWX campaign finished, these updates still showed up/are still being attempted.

      Seems very odd behaviour for a Company if all the update does, is prompt users to install Win10.

      Let's call it for what it is, Nagware is Malware by any other name, just because it's Microsoft doesn't make it acceptable.

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: Time, gentlemen, please

        I haven't forgotten it at all. See my posts above: I'm no fan of nagware but there are bound to be people with Windows 7 who are not aware that it will not be supported after January 2020. Some kind of reminder is, in my opinion, okay. But users must be able to disable it and, and it shouldn't install anything automatically.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Time, gentlemen, please

        You forget, Microsoft have past form here with GWX Nagware updates. They can't be trusted to do the right thing on this.

        Just use the solution *I* found worked; run a hacked/bootleg version of MSWin7. I had a scrap system I was running the "Evaluation" version of W7 on, and a script that would periodically reset the expiration date for the evaluation. NEVER got nagged to sidegrade to MSWin10.

        1. Waseem Alkurdi Silver badge

          Re: Time, gentlemen, please

          Do you get Windows Updates? (You probably don't.)

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Time, gentlemen, please

            Do you get Windows Updates? (You probably don't.)

            As a matter of fact, yes it does. As far as MS knows it's a regular eval copy, and they update those.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Time, gentlemen, please

      @Charlie Clark.

      Unsure why you have quite so many down votes because what you've said is perfectly reasonable. If you work for any reasonably sized organisation in the IT dept with some say over the systems and software used then you should have an upgrade strategy. This doesn't mean that WIn 10 is great and you should be upgrading to it because it's so great, that's an opinion you can judge (Personally I think desktop vs modern apps are a complete shambles - see control panel vs settings)

      This site is geared towards IT professionals, but most of the comments seem to be from people talking about IT support for their great aunt and switching over to Linux. Although this nagware is supposed to only target consumers, it isn't always clear what Microsoft regards as a consumer as they won't allow Domain attached Windows 10 Pro users to permanently uninstall crapware like xbox games or some other 'leisure' apps (Windows 10 Enterprise only to remove the 'consumer experience').

      The strategy for Windows 10 upgrade from Windows 7 is now quite difficult to do legally and easily. You don't have a free upgrade option, the upgrade VL costs are extremely expensive. This leaves you with using a loophole which would no necessarily be compatible with their licence, subscribing to Windows 10 Enterprise for a minimum period (your downgrade after the subscription expires is automatic back to Windows 10 Pro even if you were on Windows 7 before...I believe), new hardware with OEM Windows 10, a subscription to Microsoft 365.

      Either that or you run unsupported - but look at all the joviality that occurs when companies using unsupported software have security issues (Win XP anyone) as it's their own fault. Let alone relevant security guidelines you may be required to follow such as PCI, cyber security essentials etc.

      So a strategy needs to be in place, or at least a comprehensive evaluation and review of your future direction, as there's a lot of testing and resources needed to do an upgrade.

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: Time, gentlemen, please

        Thanks for the comment. Some issues (Microsoft / Apple) tend to provoke reflex outpourings of hate.

        You make a very good point about the licensing and, of course, potential liability issues. Any company running Windows 7 after EOL that has issues that could be related to the version being used, could easily find themselves in trouble.

        1. Kiwi Silver badge
          Big Brother

          Re: Time, gentlemen, please

          Any company running Windows 7 after EOL that has issues that could be related to the version being used, could easily find themselves in trouble.

          As I just asked, what of the privacy issues with W10?

          I haven't looked in a while, but last time I read the EULA it did say that from time to time the contents of your computer's memory could be sent to MS for "quality assurance" or somesuch BS, and that could "include the content of any open document" or words to that effect. So if my Dr has W10 on their machine and she's updating my medical history at one of these times, my personal medical info (or a portion thereof) has just been sent to a private company who has no legal way or reason to access such information.

      2. Kiwi Silver badge
        Black Helicopters

        Re: Time, gentlemen, please

        So a strategy needs to be in place, or at least a comprehensive evaluation and review of your future direction, as there's a lot of testing and resources needed to do an upgrade.

        But why would you go to W10 with the privacy laws coming into the world these days?

        Can you guarantee with those bits of data that MS snoops that you are not sending patient info, or customer info, or any other material off to MS? If you are, you are in breach of all sorts of privacy laws. And if you cannot guarantee you will protect the data, you also are probably in breach of many of them simply by failing to take care to protect your clients from any such breach.

        Is it worth the risk of fines to have W10 anywhere near someone else's personal information?

    4. Shadow Systems Silver badge

      At Charlie Clark, re: small business upgrades.

      Unless you are a corporation able to afford a Enterprise or VLK license from MS, Windows 10 may not be an option from a legal POV.

      If you deal with protected classes of data such as patient health records, client-therapist/lawyer confidentiality, or anything your customers expect to go no further than your internal records, you may be setting yourself for a rocketing trip up shite creek without so much as a life jacket, paddle, snorkel, or rubber bath duck.

      If the MS Win10 telemetry puts you afoul of various data protection laws like GDPR, imagine how screwed you'll become because MS is causing you to be in violation.

      I live in California (spits at & gives TheFinger to Silly Cone Valley) and will laugh myself hoarse if/when my state government passes laws to mirror/surpass GDPR.

      I will cheer & dance when Redmond gets turned into a smoking glassy crater where even the cockroaches can't survive.

      I would die a gleeful death if all of MS' C-level execs wind up swinging from nooses on public gibbits(gibbets? sp?) for public display & As A Warning To Others.

      *Deep breath*

      Anyway, if you can't afford the class of license that allows you to clamp the telemetry to as near zero as possible, a small business using Win10 may be setting themselves up for a world of hurt.

      How can a non enterprise/VLK license version be sure they're complying with the various data protection laws if the OS itself is sending all said data to MSHQ?

      1. Kiwi Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: At Charlie Clark, re: small business upgrades.

        Anyway, if you can't afford the class of license that allows you to clamp the telemetry to as near zero as possible, a small business using Win10 may be setting themselves up for a world of hurt.

        Glad to see I am not alone in this, good Sir.

        And if you'll please pardon the expression as no slur is in any way intended, 'this is a problem so obvious that even the blind can see it', at least in your case.

        Happy to see I am not alone in seeing this potential issue. Have a beer or preferred drink on me, from the other side of the world :)

        1. Shadow Systems Silver badge

          At Kiwi, re: Win10 vs GDPR.

          *Raises tankard & clinks it to yours*

          Cheers!

          No offense taken about the "even the blind guy can see the problems in this" comment, I've used it myself often enough to point out the fekkin' bleedin' obvious.

          *Slaps a Twenty on the bar & motions to the Publican for a refill of our tankards*

          This round is on me, now pass the popcorn. =-D

      2. Timmy B Silver badge

        Re: At Charlie Clark, re: small business upgrades.

        "If the MS Win10 telemetry puts you afoul of various data protection laws like GDPR, imagine how screwed you'll become because MS is causing you to be in violation."

        Rubbish. Total rubbish. You need to go and read some more about GDPR and talk when you know what you're talking about.

        1. Shadow Systems Silver badge

          At Timmy B, re: Win10 vs GDPR.

          Normally I don't feed the trolls, but I'll make an exception in your case.

          I've read both the Win10 EULA/TOS/PrivacyStatement about what they do & (supposedly) do not collect.

          I've read the GDPR summary to learn what it does & does not cover as far as what data can & can not be collected, under what circumstances it can (not) be collected, the disclosures that must be given for each transfer of PII data, and that consent must be granted for each such disclosure.

          So, please, tell me how Win10's data collection on a bulk scale is NOT in violation of the GDPR & similar rules?

          Everything I've heard thus far shows unambiguously that in a fight between Win10 & the GDPR, safe money is on the GDPR.

          Even Reno, Nevada back room odds takers won't take bets on MS to win that fight.

          Because even the blind guy can see the problems in their legal arguments to try & cover their asses.

          1. Timmy B Silver badge

            Re: At Timmy B, re: Win10 vs GDPR.

            "I've read the GDPR summary "

            There is your problem - I've read lots and lots of the GDPR documentation. I've had to - it's part of my job.

            To put it simply you can gather as much bulk data as you want as long as you cannot identify who the data belongs to and the subject knows that data is being collected.

            1. Kiwi Silver badge

              Re: At Timmy B, re: Win10 vs GDPR.

              There is your problem - I've read lots and lots of the GDPR documentation. I've had to - it's part of my job.

              You're not doing your job very well then.

              But the GDPR is irrelevant anyway. It is the laws of my land I am interested in, and W10's data collection completely falls foul of that.

              Especially the collecting the contents of documents. I have not given my Dr nor any government depts permission to pass such information on. Furthermore, under the same laws they MUST be able to present me with a copy of ALL data relating to me that has been passed on regardless of whether or not it ID's me. They must be able to tell me who will have access to that data (at least to the organisational/company level, not necessarily specific individuals).

              I haven't read much at all on the European law, but if it is stronger than our laws you're failing your clients.

              Assuming of course you're something more than a MS troll, and somehow I greatly doubt that.

    5. Kiwi Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Time, gentlemen, please

      a reminder from Microsoft, maybe even once a month doesn't seem too unreasonable to me for software that is approaching its EOL.

      I ride an ancient motorbike, more than 30 years old. I am often told it's "past it" and I should get a new one.

      Though smaller and older than the bikes of those I ride with, I am still faster. Though it is not a sports bike, I can past the best of them with ease on our narrow winding roads. It does the job perfectly well, and even much better than its newer but bigger and much much heavier counterparts. The lower weight and the shorter wheel base more than compensate for the smaller CC rating.

      Sure it doesn't have the latest "security system", but it does what I want and performs better than what's on the market today in every metric I care about. So why should I go for a 'new' bike that will never perform as well as my old bike while my old bike still works?

  8. sammy_mac

    Solving the Windows Issues

    Windows 10 converted my nonagenarian great aunt to Linux, and she's never looked back after making the switch. In her words, "I don't ever want that Windows mess on my computer again!" Windows 7 converted my wife to Linux when Windows 7 wouldn't support the laptop's wireless card no matter how many times we tried to update with the latest drivers. With Windows 7, the laptop would crash about every 90 minutes. After moving to Kubuntu, the laptop hasn't crashed once.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Solving the Windows Issues

      "Windows 10 converted my nonagenarian great aunt to Linux, and she's never looked back after making the switch. In her words, "I don't ever want that Windows mess on my computer again!"

      My denarian daughter converted from a Linux laptop to Windows 10 and she's happy as ever. The app store includes games and other stuff in an easy to use interface with screen caps, videos and everything. One click and the software installs.

      Just like with Apple store and Google Play stores. No knowledge of the underlying OS is needed.

      Contrast that with the boring grey repo manager windows with no real indication of what the software is like, which is probably fine for people who know exactly what they're looking for. The Steam store requires downloading a .deb and manually installing it and Steam itself has its own small selection of games to play.

      1. katrinab Silver badge

        Re: Solving the Windows Issues

        Linux had one-click installs long before Windows did. Ximan’s Red Carpet came out about 20 years ago.

      2. DJV Silver badge

        Re: Solving the Windows Issues

        Troll alert!!!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Solving the Windows Issues

          Yes, how dares the heretic bring up issues in Linux. We don't need app stores (except Valve's because they're not evil) nor bells and whistles. Linux has been the superior gaming platform since 90s when Loki Software (remember them?) ported some games.

          Right?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @AC - Re: Solving the Windows Issues

        That's definitely child abuse! You decided for her that she will never need to learn computing.

      4. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: Solving the Windows Issues

        The Steam store requires downloading a .deb and manually installing it and Steam itself has its own small selection of games to play.

        The Steam store requires downloading an .exe and manually installing it on versions of Windows people actually want to use.

        The Steam client is in the Ubuntu repo, by contrast.

        The library of games for Linux is smaller than on Windows, but Steam is working on its own version of WINE to expand that. I've already bought one game that was a Windows game but was certified by Steam to run with Proton (their WINE fork). It works fine, and more titles are being added all the time. Steam is committed to preventing Microsoft can't corner the market on software distribution, and that makes them the unquestioned good guys in all of this.

        If a game won't run on Linux, I'll just watch a playthrough on Youtube of someone else doing it and enjoy the story that way. I like those kinds of videos, and I save the Windows (or console) only games I hear about for viewing later. Any interesting ones that I see in the Youtube suggestions that have a Linux version, I'll probably play it myself. I've found a lot of games that I later purchased on Steam that way.

        Windows 10 is garbage, and since it's "the last version of Windows," it means Windows is garbage. People have been saying that for years, but I always actually liked Windows. That was before Windows 10, though. To call it a steaming pile of manure does injustice to all the steaming piles of manure out there that actually have some redeeming value, like the ability to fertilize crops. I don't care how much software can run on Windows 10... it simply does not exist as one of the options for me. Windows is being discontinued, and only a few more years of security updates for 8.1 remain until Windows is completely defunct. Windows 10 doesn't even exist.

        With that in mind, of course I went Linux. What else am I gonna do? If I want to stick with an OS that still gets updates (and that will still get them past 2023), Linux is all there is.

    2. BobChip
      Linux

      Re: Solving the Windows Issues - and preaching to the converted

      You are far from alone. All our desktops and laptops are now on Linux Mint, and both kids university laptops are Chromebooks (AKA Linux).

      Did I mention that none of these systems ever nag you? About anything? Or that they update silently and in minutes, not hours?

      Linux is the only upgrade you will ever need.

      1. Timmy B Silver badge

        Re: Solving the Windows Issues - and preaching to the converted

        "You are far from alone. All our desktops and laptops are now on Linux Mint, and both kids university laptops are Chromebooks (AKA Linux).2"

        Please tell me you've moaned about Win10 data collection and then bought Chromebooks! Please do.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Solving the Windows Issues

      Windows 10 converted my nonagenarian great aunt to Linux

      Linux runs on human wetware?

      Mine's the coat with "Doc Frank" on the back.

      1. Baldrickk Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: Solving the Windows Issues

        Linux runs on anything - you just need the correct gcc cross-compiler

        1. Waseem Alkurdi Silver badge

          Re: Solving the Windows Issues

          MADE. MY. DAY.

  9. chivo243 Silver badge
    Windows

    Windows 10 is a Bathroom

    Look at all those tiles! Too bad there isn't a built in way to get the classic start menu BACK! I have users that have trouble navigating in Win7! Yes, Yes, training is a different department...

    For out next psychological experiment, we will lock those users in an office with Win10, with no ITers around to assist!

    1. AMBxx Silver badge

      Re: Windows 10 is a Bathroom

      Most users just store 100+ documents and shortcuts on the desktop - job done!?!

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: Windows 10 is a Bathroom

      I want to get an overall 3D Skeuomorphic look back. But the ARROGANT MILLENIAL TWITS at Micro-shaft won't do that. This means I use Windows 7 until they PRY IT FROM MY COLD DEAD COMPUTER. Or, switch to Wine or a VM on Linux for those applications I must still run.

      But of course, for the Start Menu itself, you knew about the old 'Classic Start Menu' replacements, right? They still exist, though some of the names have changed... was one called 'Classic Shell' but I don't know what it is now.

      1. DJV Silver badge

        Re: Windows 10 is a Bathroom

        Classic Shell is now Open Shell.

        1. toejam13

          Re: Windows 10 is a Bathroom

          Classic Shell might be an option for home use, but if your corporate Windows 10 device is strictly locked down, good luck convincing your IT department to whitelist it.

    3. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: Windows 10 is a Bathroom

      I think I stopped using the Start Menu as a list somewhere around the time Vista came out.

      Instead, just hit the start button, type the first few letters of the program name, and then hit enter. Job done.

  10. Terje

    While Windows 10 have some issues, in my not so humble opinion it's actually over all a slightly better experience then Windows 7 today and the daily use experience quite a lot nicer, If they sort out some of the more glaring issues like forced updates, the schizophrenic control panel it would be better in all respects.

    1. A.P. Veening

      And get rid of those tiles, it isn't a bathroom!

      1. Terje

        Yes they are absolutely useless

    2. Dave K Silver badge

      Out of curiosity, why exactly?

      Not a criticism, everyone is entitled to their opinion, however I am genuinely curious. For me, Windows 10 has a terrible Start Menu, the Control Panel / Settings split is an absolute mess, Windows Explorer with the ribbon is overly complicated, Accessibility is an issue due to Metro apps not respecting the "disable animations" accessibility setting, the default sounds are bloody awful, telemetry/spyware is a major concern, Cortana is a pain in the arse, etc.

      Looking at advantages over Windows 7, erm... DirectX 12. I honestly can't think of anything else...

      1. Terje

        Start menu: I think it works quite well for the way _I_ use it ie. I mostly use the search in it to find/start programs, most of the things I commonly use I launch either from the taskbar or a desktop icon, the tiles on the right could just be removed though as I never use them and just ignore it. And I feel the search works better then it does on windows 7.

        Controlpanel / settings: I totally agree and hate it, though it's not something that annoys me for daily use so that's only an occasional source for banging my head against a nearby wall.

        Explorer ribbon is something I have learned to live with and it no longer annoys me, though I have to say that I'm one of those persons that have come to like it in office so I may be damaged from that.

        Accessability: can't say anything about that as I have never used those features and use a grand total of zero metro apps.

        Telemetry: Blocked in firewal and included in l the glaring issues part just forgot to write it.

        Cortana: Very not enabled and microsoft have not insisted, may be because while I use an English windows (I refuse to have a localised version as it's bloody awful) It is set to Swedish locale and I think cortana is not available in Sweden.

        I have a hard time to put a finger on what I like better with it but somehow it just feel slicker and faster to use to me.

      2. IsJustabloke Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        "Out of curiosity, why exactly?"

        For me all the software I use regularly exists as shortcut on the taskbar. I group them into functionally similar folders . I never/ rarely go near the start menu.

        I know it's unfashionable but I like Win 10. My work laptop is still a win 7 machine and I'm looking forward to it being upgraded in the near future.

        I tried Mint on an old laptop and really didn't like it.

      3. Timmy B Silver badge

        Windows 10 has a terrible Start Menu

        No - it's simple and does 95% of what your average user needs. Just because your 1% can re-arrange it into some massive tree structure and then still only use the 5 or 6 main icons they have on their desktop anyway doesn't make it terrible.

        Control Panel / Settings split is an absolute mess

        Most stuff has moved over. I can't remember the last time I had to use control panel properly. That may have been the case with 8 and 8.1 but not now.

        Windows Explorer with the ribbon is overly complicated

        Then hide the ribbon and use the quick access toolbar.

        Accessibility is an issue due to Metro apps not respecting the "disable animations" accessibility setting,

        New one on me - but I'll give you that one. UWP apps are maturing, though.

        the default sounds are bloody awful

        Not at all serious. A matter of taste. I have all sounds except stuff I want to hear (videos and music) turned off.

        telemetry/spyware is a major concern

        No - not really. If it's that much of a concern you simply can't own a smartphone, use a smart TV, use anything by Google, Amazon, Apple, Facebook or MS.

        Cortana is a pain in the arse, etc.

        Just don't use it. I don't and never give it a second thought.

        Looking at advantages over Windows 7, erm... DirectX 12. I honestly can't think of anything else...

        Faster boot times, UEFI, stability and I'm not trying hard.

    3. chivo243 Silver badge
      Headmaster

      How about putting everything back in the control panel and get rid of this halfway house they call settings?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Or put everything in settings with the same functionality as control panel and the same granularity. Either way, just have one and not both - especially as you can be in 'settings' click a link and it throws you out to control panel.

        I'm unsure how easy it is to run settings as another user (admin), it was a bit of a faff for some control panel options but you could do it. I haven't investigated with settings yet.

  11. staringatclouds

    Looks like I'll be upgrading my system to some version of Linux in 2020

    1. Khaptain Silver badge

      Why wait ?

  12. VinceH Silver badge

    Optional

    Dear Microsoft,

    Thank you for your kind reminder that Windows 7 is approaching EOL and that Windows 10 is current.

    Now fuck right off.

    All the best...

  13. Updraft102 Silver badge

    Microsoft has clearly learned lessons from the nagware experience.

    Yes, they've learned that they can get away with pretty much anything. MS has crossed the line so many times and in so many ways since Windows 10 arrived on the scene, but they're doing just fine, right? Windows 10 finally eclipsed 7, and more and more people fall victim to it each month.

  14. EastFinchleyite

    DDOS

    Isn't Microsoft guilty of a Distributed Denial of Service attack (DDoS) ?

    After all they are distributing a message about their intention to deny those of us using Windows 7 continued service. It wouldn't be so bad if the replacement wasn't Win10

    It used to be said that every second Microsoft OS was OK, and the others duds but they have issued Win8, Win8.1 and Win10. Three duds in a row which breaks that pattern.

    1. fobobob

      Re: DDOS

      Why all the hate for 8(.1)? I can understand the people's outright contempt for MetroUI, but the system can be whipped into shape with a few third-party applications, some update avoidance, and disabling of a few anti-features. Last usable MS OS to me. I therefore argue that the pattern still follows, with 8.1 being the "good" (relatively speaking) release (if we'll allow, as Microsoft does, that 8 and 8.1 are distinct enough to consider different OSs).

      1. Dajve_Bloke
        Unhappy

        Re: DDOS

        Personally I quite like 8.1, properly tweaked. I use it on my main workstation. That said, AMD no longer provide Win8/Win8.1 graphics driver s for their cards - you have to muddle by with the Win7 drivers. This is only going to get worse as 7 goes the journey.

        That AMD still provide dedicated 7 drivers (which will go) but don't bother with an 8.1 - an OS that's supported until 2023 - version is disheartening. I've gone with their cards since the 4870 came out, but suspect I'll be back to NVidia and have to deal with suboptimal OpenGL performance.

  15. Gerlad Dreisewerd

    Phuque 10

    !0 refused to update my desktop because it had, gasp, on-board video. It promised to update the netbook then never got around to it. One of my laptops made the transition from 8 to 10. One of the first things I saw on 10 was that damnable Candy Crush Saga. I installed Linux on the netbook and I'm still wondering why I didn't do the same for the laptop.

    1. John McCallum
      Windows

      Re: Phuque 10

      It did the same to mine But I already knew that it is an ancient 2003 vintage Dell.

    2. Carl D

      Re: Phuque 10

      To avoid the install of Candy Crush Saga (and Disney's Magic Kingdoms, March of Empires, Bubble Witch 3, Dolby Access, etc.) make sure your PC is not connected to the Internet when you install Windows 10 - no matter how much it insists that you should.

      For version 1809 it actually asks you TWICE for Internet access during the install of Windows 10 Professional (once during Home) following a 2 or 3 minute "pause" where it is obviously desperately trying to get Internet access.

      And, after finishing the Windows 10 install, remain disconnected from the Internet until you turn off and remove the live tiles from the Start Menu (the empty ones, at least) or you will STILL end up getting the abovementioned rubbish installed. Also, it is a good idea to go through and adjust all of your privacy settings, etc.

      It is then "safe" to allow Windows 10 to connect to the Internet.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I won't get any of that Nagware on my Toughbook CF-74, because it's not compatible with Windows 10. Already have an Office 365 Account, and won't be doing auto-anything.

  17. Nupurvaidya

    To be honest I like Windows 10 much better than windows 7. And if given time Windows 10 will prove more beneficial through further updates.

    1. PhilBuk

      You created a new user to just say that? Now ain't that suspicious.

      Phil.

      1. DJV Silver badge

        @PhilBuk

        Hah, nicely done for spotting the "new" troll! Have an upvote!

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    futile fart

    given how long it's been since the last MS effort to force W10 on W7 users, I expect the number of people switching to W10 after this spam campaign to be counted in "handfuls".

  19. Jacob's Elevator

    I will never pilot your fondleware.

    Hands off my Win7 you freakin' fondlers, I will never fly your Win10 Spyware. Posted on WinXP SP3..

  20. Carl D

    "we are reaching out with information and resources" (from Matt Barlow's blog).

    Reaching out?

    Reminds me of one of those horror movies where the hand and arm suddenly burst out of the ground (usually in a graveyard when you think the monster/zombie/whatever has finally been killed) just so the movie makers can give you one last huge fright.

    1. A.P. Veening

      And prepare for the sequel.

    2. Kiwi Silver badge
      Windows

      "we are reaching out with information and resources" (from Matt Barlow's blog).

      Reaching out?

      It was a miss-spelling thanks to auto-correct. The word he meant to use was "retching".

  21. BGatez

    nope

    At the time I must switch to Windows 10 because of new hardware and the software I need for work, it will be Enterprise LTSB - IMHO well worth the 300 beans US for the lack of trash and security of knowing it will likely keep working through a security update.

  22. Howard Hanek Bronze badge
    Happy

    Expiration Dates

    My support for Microsoft expired on 12/31/2017. I sent them several notification prior to that but, no, they refused to pay me the stated fee to continue my support.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Best virtualisation options?

    Let's be fair, a lot of us will be a long time before we can go a full week without touching that crap and dual-booting is slow.

    What do people think is the best option for running Winsomething in a virtual partition with GPU acceleration? Okay if I have to add another monitor, but I want to be able to casually save the machine state and not have to close my proper OS.

    1. Craig100

      Re: Best virtualisation options?

      I've been running Win7/10 in a VirtualBox VM for nearly 10 years. Now on a Linux Mint host and across two screens. It's fab. 2D and 3D accel. YMMV though of course ;)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Best virtualisation options?

        What kind of GPU? Is this a setup that requires one graphics card to be devoted to virtualbox to provide 3D acceleration?

        1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

          Re: Best virtualisation options?

          VirtualBox gives its guests not much more 3D than is necessary to run the Windows shell. (I don't think any shaders from the guest machines get to run on the GPU.) I doubt you could run any games on it. I think VMWare's workstation offering (that you pay for) does slightly better. Neither gives you access to stuff like Intel's QuickSync offering (hardware H264 + H265).

          On the other hand, if you don't need to run games, you can certainly get by. Software decoding is enough on a modern machine to let you watch all the videos on the internet and Windows (any version) is more stable in a VM, perhaps because the virtualised hardware platform is more stable. I've been running Windows in a VM full-time for several years. It works for me.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Carrot rather than stick

    Rather than bullying reluctant users, who have a wide range of well-founded snd well documented (in-)compatibility, training and privacy issues, perhaps MS could adopt a (for them) revolutionary approach of trying to make the migration from Win7 to Win10 ***attractive*** to those users by actually attempting to address (at least some of) those issues instead of arrogantly insisting that they are always right.

    Change is hugely costly - in time and, often, money - for users. "If it ain't broke don't fix it"; certainly don't force change, especially when that change introduces new bugs and incompatibilities.

    The IT world spends FAR too much time revisiting problems that have already been largey addressed rather than making real progress on a wealth of new (and far more challenging) problems.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Its a shame VCDS automotive diagnostic software wont run in a virtual machine. Its the only reason I maintain a windows partition. 7 will live on connected to the net only to update VCDS when I become aware of a newer version.

    My laptop defaults to Mint on boot

    1. quxinot Bronze badge

      VCDS with a HEX-CAN cable (not a wireless version) can be run in a virtualbox VM. I forget the trick, but it definitely is possible.

      Unfortunately the newest VCDS doesn't want to run on XP, so it's time to retire the portable netbook I use for datalogging :(

  26. jelabarre59 Silver badge

    Windows 7 holdouts have been warned to expect a notification suggesting that perhaps an upgrade might be in order.

    I upgraded a *LONG* time ago. To Linux.

  27. David McCoy

    I'm starting to wonder who at Microsoft is on Apple's Christmas card list.

    Since w10 came out I have seen a shift away from MS by my clients, who are mainly home users and a few small businesses, to Apple and non-MS Office programs. One small business that had been happily running Win7 boxes that I had built for them years back has just migrated to Apple after the owner's son updated the pc's to win10 (without asking or telling anyone) and a year of continual crashes and other problems.

    I have been encouraging other clients to make the move to either Apple or Linux Mint since win10 first reared it's head. With one exception, they have all been happy to make the switch. Often telling me that they wish someone had told them about Mac years ago. The one exception was someone I specifically told he had to stick with windows because of software he ran that was only available in windows format. the other move that has been accelerating for around 5 years has been from desktop or laptop machines to tablets.

    Over the last three years I would say my business has moved from 95% Windows, 4% Apple and 1% Linux to 65% Windows, 30% Apple, 2.5% linux, and 2.5% tablet.

    1. DenonDJ DN-2500F

      Your figures are interesting in isolation but don't match up with sales figures anywhere. I like Linux but it has less than 1% on the desktop, Mac is less than 5%. Droid on phones - now thats a clear leader despite what Apple have to say

    2. hoola

      Simple question:

      Why is Apple any better than Windows just because it is based on Linux?

      Both are commercial closed environments with proprietary APIs. Microsoft are criticised for all the security fixes and the monthly updates but at least they are addressed. Yes they could handle it better in Windows 10 (it is just crap that you cannot turn off or restart any more if there are pending updates).

      Is Windows genuinely less secure? Apple are notorious for their secrecy and trying to bury anything that might bring them into disrepute. People will have strong opinions but I am not sure an opinion is the same as the facts.

      I tried to move a relative to Linux (Mint I think) on a Toshiba laptop and we gave up. The support overhead was worse than Windows in getting a printer, camera and a few other USB devices to work. Only when Linux has resolved those problems does it genuinely become viable for the average non-tech user. As it stands the realistic options are Windows or iOS.

      1. Kiwi Silver badge

        Driver issues are uncommon but not unheard of with Linux.

        But I've never seen a Linux update wipe out hardware like W10 does.

        People relying on their audio drivers are unheard from in Windows.

        "See my network works perfectly[WINDOWS UPDATE]perfectly is totally fucked! "

  28. DougS Silver badge

    GWX Control Panel?

    I already installed that on my mom's PC a few years ago to stop it nagging. I hope there will be an updated version that will stop this nagging as well!

  29. JeffyPoooh Silver badge
    Pint

    False promises...

    I was promised peace and quiet with the supposed ending of support for Windows RT 8 (.1) on my Surface 2 tablet. But no... Bloody updates just keep coming. Update this, update that, blah blah blah.

    Leave me alone!!!

  30. VerySlowData
    Alert

    When MS wakes up and updates Win 7 to Win 9

    If MS haven't woken up and released the proper update from Win 7 to Win 9, by Jan 2020, then its goodbye Windows and my computers will just boot to Linux Mint. Mint works for me, email, browser Arduino, Open SCAD etc..

  31. VicMortimer
    FAIL

    System Requirements

    The system requirements said "Windows 10 or better", so I installed macOS.

    (No, not really. I've been using Macs since System 6. If you think Windoze 10 is bad, take a look at Windoze 2.)

    1. Shadow Systems Silver badge

      Re: System Requirements

      I'm considering upgrading to an old 8088 with 1Meg of RAM, a 10Meg hard drive, pumping monochrome amber video through a card with 512Kilobytes of VRAM, all running Windows 3.1.

      How much do you want to bet MS will try to convince me to instal Win10 on it?

      =-)P

      /Sarcasm, lots & lots of sarcasm.

      I'd really rather get a 9th gen Intel I9 running at 4GHz (up to 5GHz), 128Tb of RAM, a Tb M.2 NVMe SSD, about 100Tb of SAS connected HDD's, all pumping 4K to multiple monitors, running Linux as a base with multiple VM's of various OS' in the background just for shits & giggles.

      Win3.11 in one that I use to connect to MS WSUS to pull down patches, just to fuck with their heads.

      A VM of OS/2 to connect to sites like the NYT & WaPo so their online tracking algorithms get screwed.

      Maybe a VM of Commodore 128D pretending to connect via dial up to make my old bank shit itself.

      Perhaps a VM of a Raspberry Pi to try & play Crysis!

      =-D

      *Head explodes from the sarcasm*

    2. Jakester

      Re: System Requirements

      If you think Windows 2 was bad, try 1.15.

  32. Ghostman
    Holmes

    Fully patched and updated

    I own several Win 10 machines (desktops/laptops) and I've really had less compatibility issues than I did migrating some of these machines from XP to 7. Yes, some are old and were built to run XP. Last week I even installed Hexen II on one of the desktops that started life on Win 7, but now runs Win 10.

    I also have machines that run Win98, Win95, and versions of DOS from 3.11 to 6.22 (all in about 40 machines)

  33. Kiwi Silver badge
    Linux

    Safe from the rellies.

    For most, Windows was replaced by Linux. Usual comment about their surprise at how easy their computer is to use now, no more need of expensive and resource-hogging AV software etc, I can easily SSH in and do most things in the rare events things break, and much of it is scripted and so on as you can trust the updates not to do nasty things (well, except where systemd is creeping more and more into the systems)

    For the rest, my phone # was replaced by one they were never given.

  34. Mike_G

    Personally, I went to Win10 as soon as it came out. The PC is used for the kids homework (They where brought up on Windows so it was no change to them), gaming and some IPTV streaming, same on my laptop. (My 15yr old son has a Macbook he can do what he wants on if they are in use) I don't actually get all the fuss

    Yes you can say invasion of privacy, data slurp etc but lets face it, there are other bodies who know a lot more about me, and I don't think they really care about my porn habits.

  35. David Lawton

    Even if you hate Apple i hope this makes more people switch to a Mac. The other platforms need more share of the market so when Microsoft do make dog food like Windows 10 there is more viable choice and Microsoft might actually be forced to stop pumping out this crap. Its usually software compatibility that stops people leaving Windows, Linux and MacOS are great but if you cannot get the applications you absolutely need you are trapped in Microsoft Windows 10 hell. If the other OS's have more share, more applications will be developed for it and we all win.

  36. DenonDJ DN-2500F

    Never so happy as when they are moaning

    I bet most of the moaners on here hated Windows 7 when it was released because XP was just right and some of them still reminisce about Windows 95 as it was so uncluttered.

    I've been in this business for 30 years and yet I'm still surprised about the number of Luddites (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite) that are employed in IT

    Yes - there will be problems with any major upgrade ( or even very occasionally patches) but you have made backups and got a reversion plan haven't you?

    Change is difficult - and its not always for the best but times, requirements, security needs and end user expectations change. Change with them .

    1. Kiwi Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: Never so happy as when they are moaning

      Yes - there will be problems with any major upgrade ( or even very occasionally patches) but you have made backups and got a reversion plan haven't you?

      Was a bit hard to do a reversion when MS would cancel the W7 license and not allow you to actually boot into Windows, or when you did revert even to an older backup, only to find the 'upgrade' process would run automatically next time you restart the machine.

      Or you do regular backups and a chance to W10 breaks some minor irrelevant hardware, like the network drivers or USB drivers. And when you go to boot into safe mode to restore - oops, no can't do that any more. Or when you try to use other tools to repair your system only to be told "this version of the repair tool is not compaitble" and there's no way to get one that is compatible with the current installed Windows.

      Or...

      Or...

      Or...

      W7 was ok. Not much of a learning curve for someone who'd stuck for XP for a while simply though not needing new hardware (and spending my money on things far more important than computers, like being outdoors exploring all sorts of fun places with some very close friends), pretty stable, looked OK, and pretty easy to find your way around.

      BTW, I'm also someone who had my hands on pre-release W95, have tried all sorts of early/pre-release OS's and software, done lots of beta-testing (back in the 90s when computing was changing faster than it is now and there wasn't the same level of helpful resources readily available). Not afraid to try new things, but also not interested in polishing turds. I use Linux because if my phone rings and it's out of reach, I'm too lazy to get off my arse and grab it - ie I'd rather use my computer than constantly be fighting it. (Actually not so much lazy, just much more interested in doing other stuff and having the computer do what I want if and when i want it doing stuff).

    2. PT

      Re: Never so happy as when they are moaning

      At Denon-DJ: well, the fact is, Windows XP sp3 WAS just right. The only improvement offered by Windows 7 was 64 bit and multi-core support, which could quite easily have been added to XP without passing through the horror that was Vista, and then carrying the Vista bloat into W7 with the totally unnecessary video effects. As far as I can see, the only "need" that existed for Windows 10 was Microsoft's need to take control of everyone's computer through the compulsory upgrade system, probably with a view to changing everyone to an annual license plan once there was no alternative.

    3. Updraft102 Silver badge

      Re: Never so happy as when they are moaning

      Refusing to swallow any garbage that Microsoft wants to shovel our way doesn't make anyone a Luddite. IT people have an abiding interest in things that work. Changes are welcome if they produce positive results, but to mindlessly accept any change at all because anything else means being called names would be the height of stupidity. IT people have an abiding interest in what works, for the users as well as for themselves, and things that increase support calls without any counterbalancing benefit, that increase IT workload, or that attempt to wrest control from them are not going to be appreciated.

      If IT people overwhelmingly oppose something in IT, it's probably because the thing isn't actually a good idea. They don't oppose everything new... just stupid things. People in the business (present company excluded, apparently) have enough of an understanding of the tech to know when they're being lied to by the likes of Microsoft. It's easy to dazzle some in the tech press; just issue a blurb with a lot of buzzwords sprinkled in, resulting in a statement full of words but totally devoid of actual meaning, and they're probably going to say it's the best thing ever. No one wants to be the child saying that the emperor has no clothes!

      Well, when it comes to Windows 10, forced updates, Windows as a Service, etc., let me tell you, the emperor has no clothes. None of these changes were necessary in the modern world where blah, blah, blah (insert Microsoft nonsensical press release here). If you don't understand the tech, you may be inclined to believe Microsoft's nonsense about how you have to be forced to have an update that introduces gaming mode so you can keep up to date with "the changing security landscape," or whatever other nonsense MS wants to spew.

  37. Anonymous South African Coward Silver badge
    Facepalm

    @MSFT : Yer aff yer heid

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The only reason I have a Windows partition is because I can't be fucked getting dBpoweramp working in WINE!

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