back to article UK-EU infosec data sharing may not be KO'd by Brexit, reckons ENISA bod

A senior EU cybersecurity official has said he is “optimistic” about information sharing between the UK and the political bloc continuing after Brexit. In an interview with The Register, Steve Purser of the EU agency for Network and Information Security (ENISA) said that while it is “obvious” that the information-sharing …

  1. Version 1.0 Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Remember the vote!

    You all voted to "leave" all this co-operation behind. Remember, it's all going to be so easy there will be nothing to worry about. I assume that the Brexiters will be up in arms about this EU attempt to access our data.

    No, I'm not trolling, I'm just baffled by the politics of strictly enforcing a 51% result by a government that couldn't even get 43% of the voters to approve them. Will this mess destroy British Politics? Let's hope it does before both political parties destroy the UK.

    1. Teiwaz Silver badge

      Re: Remember the vote!

      Nope, I think the various interested parties will all line up behind the party when pushed, especially when besieged by a rival party, and the good of the nation can be shored up afterwards with some belt tightening and another IT project that is sure to wave the magic wand this time.

      Hell, all the PM has to do at this point is mollify a small group of loonies from a marginal part of non-mainland U.K. that probably won't be part of the country in forty to sixty years....

      The only thing that's going to fix things is more cross-party cabinets, then they can spend their time bickering and only dealing with vitally important matters and stop hassling the country with trivia like brexit and mandated age verification.

      Better off moving the government to the Isle of Wight, or better still Azkaban, (it doesn't? can't we build one?).

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Remember the vote!

        "Hell, all the PM has to do at this point is mollify a small group of loonies from a marginal part of non-mainland U.K. that probably won't be part of the country in forty to sixty years."

        Do NOT minimise the difficulties. here. You may think "loonies" and you may well be right but nevertheless the divisions run deep. Rather deeper than, say, the divisions between the ERG and the EU. We can well do without the consequences of stirring that up again. And as to "forty to sixty years" - they were thinking in terms of fewer than that number a undred years ago.

        Let's be clear about this. The UK entered into an international agreement about this and the Brexiteers seem quite prepared to break that in order to get their way. One of the things that they claim to want to do is set up individual trade agreements outside the EU. If they start off by breaking an agreement like the Goof Friday Agreement who's going to trust them with new agreements?

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: Remember the vote!

          @Doctor Syntax

          "If they start off by breaking an agreement like the Goof Friday Agreement who's going to trust them with new agreements?"

          Actually it would be the EU breaking such an agreement unless we actively wish to set up a hard border (we dont). The EU have finally admitted it too-

          https://www.continentaltelegraph.com/brexit/no-deal-brexit-means-the-eu-imposes-a-hard-irish-border-not-us/

          Not that this should be a shock because it is the EU insisting there must be a border and if we are not willing to provide then they are the only ones left. The Irish of either side dont want one.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Remember the vote!

      You speak as one who is not British. Neither am I. I don't think anyone who isn't can really understand this and all we can do is avoid comment on their internal affairs. I plan to stick to laughing and pointing.

      1. Version 1.0 Silver badge
        Unhappy

        Re: Remember the vote!

        Unfortunately I am both British and horrified at the abysmal government that Britain has ended up with - we don't have "democracy" any longer, the "chumocracy" (of both parties) has raped the country. British democracy now consists to two political parties debating who gets to take a shit on the voters while the other party holds them down.

    3. RobertLongshaft

      Re: Remember the vote!

      You're "baffled" by how elections and referendums work?

      If such a simple concept as basic democracy confuses you perhaps you should leave the complexities of international politics to others.

      1. Ken 16 Silver badge
        Holmes

        Re: Remember the vote!

        In fairness, referenda work differently in other countries, sometimes there's analysis up front and often the specifics of the legislation to be enacted and the outcome of a vote either way is spelled out on the ballot paper. There may even be a Referenda Commision to ensure there's no false claims made by either side or undue media influence by a government broadcaster or political canvassers. As for elections, most countries wind up with a coalition that's built on compromise positions.

      2. Version 1.0 Silver badge
        Unhappy

        Re: Remember the vote!

        No, I know how elections and referendums work - I'm just amazed that anyone considers the referendum, and the politics behind it, to be democracy. The Pro Brexit vote was heavily influenced by completely fake promises and lies, while the Pro Remain side stood around and did bugger all.

        We now have a situation where we're told that the feelings of 52% of the vote are of paramount important while the feelings of the 48% of the vote don't matter at all and should be completely disregarded. Politics used to be all about compromise, delivering the best for everyone - now it's just old farts clinging to power and money - nobody cares about the population.

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: Remember the vote!

          @Version 1.0

          "The Pro Brexit vote was heavily influenced by completely fake promises and lies, while the Pro Remain side stood around and did bugger all."

          Bugger all? Lies, fake promises, direct threats against the population by the government, abuse of public funds to push a propaganda leaflet, failure to perform the duties of the government to bias the vote, the BoE breaking its independence to try and influence a political vote and caught misrepresenting the facts. And I wouldnt be shocked if more could be added to that list.

          "We now have a situation where we're told that the feelings of 52% of the vote are of paramount important while the feelings of the 48% of the vote don't matter at all and should be completely disregarded"

          We now have a situation where a minority expect their opinion to be worth more than everyone elses and to overthrow democracy because they didnt get the result they wanted.

          "Politics used to be all about compromise, delivering the best for everyone - now it's just old farts clinging to power and money - nobody cares about the population."

          Politics is politics and democracy while far from perfect is the best way to reign in those who abuse politics. Unfortunately some people would like to overthrow democracy and impose their minority will on the population somehow mistaking 48% to be larger than 52%. Obviously with no care for the population.

    4. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      Re: Remember the vote!

      You all voted to "leave" all this co-operation behind.

      We did nothing of the sort. We voted to leave EU control, and return to a model based upon agreed co-operation. It looks like at least some European organizations are willing to co-operate.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Remember the vote!

        "We voted to leave EU control, and return to a model based upon agreed co-operation"

        There's your problem right there. The EU is a complete package - "control", co-operation and everything. Did you vote to leave control or did you vote to take part in co-operation - the two are alternatives.

        Once we're out - and fully out which seems increasingly likely - you're going to find out just how much "control" we exert out in the big wide world. It's going to be less than we exerted within the EU and less than the EU exerts in the rest of the world.

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: Remember the vote!

          @Doctor Syntax

          "Once we're out - and fully out which seems increasingly likely - you're going to find out just how much "control" we exert out in the big wide world."

          This puts an end to the 'Empire' claims against leavers. Control of our own country and cooperating with others is cooperation. That is not exerting control out in the big wide world, and if the aim of the EU is to control others it justifies the leave insistence that we want to leave the control of the EU.

    5. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Remember the vote!

      You all voted to "leave" all this co-operation behind.

      No we didn't "all" vote as you well recognise. You shouldn't be baffled - there are too many people going round spouting the this sort of rubbish and you've just added to their number. Don't do that.

  2. MJI Silver badge

    4 letters covers it

    GCHQ

    1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      Re: 4 letters covers it

      Indeed, and GCHQ's CESG.

      But ENISA seem to have picked quite the elephant-

      This is a framework that will allow certifying authorities to certify everything from lightbulbs, toasters to atomic stations and submarines. And processes and services,”

      That's.. a pretty broad remit, and somehow I doubt the UK, France, Germany, Netherlands etc would be too keen on detailed information sharing about their subs. Like our nice new Astutes, or Trident replacement. I'm pretty sure national authorities would prefer to self-certify their security given the sensitivity.

      It's a nice idea though, but not necessarily new, ie the EAL1-7 rating for IT components.. But it's one of those wicked problems given the complexity and potential overlap with other existing standards, like BSxxxx for safety/functionality and other ISO activities.

      But such is politics. Crete's a nice place to work, but not the cheapest location given the amount of travel that'll probably be needed. Unless the EU wants to block itself off from the rest of the world via certification barriers, it'll need to work with the UK, US, Israel, Turkey, China etc etc.

      1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: 4 letters covers it

        This is a framework that will allow certifying authorities to certify everything from lightbulbs, toasters to atomic stations and submarines. And processes and services,

        Great. "CE" marking for nuclear submarines. We can all sleep more soundly now :)

        1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: 4 letters covers it

          Just think of the billable hours and expenses to be had from developing a framework that includes where the CE mark should be applied. I'm sure RN officers could offer a few suggestions. But I've been thinking about this a little more-

          ...will allow certifying authorities to certify everything..

          As an example of what's wrong with the EU, real or perceived. Current certifying authorities, national and international are already allowed to certify things within their remit, without the need for an EU body to step in and mess things up. So potentially an extra layer of bureaucracy and cost that doesn't necessarily add any real value.

    2. Matt Ryan

      Re: 4 letters covers it

      As with many things about the EU and Brexit, they need us more than we need them. Largest intelligence gathering network is FVEY. No EU nation is part of that after Brexit so they lose access to what it knows. Hence need to keep Blighty on side...

  3. DavCrav Silver badge
    FAIL

    "Shortly after the Alps mass murder, Germanwings rebranded as Eurowings."

    The announcement of the rebranding was in January 2015. The crash happened in March of that year.

  4. devTrail

    How relevant can be his declarations?

    How relevant can be his declarations?

    Was he speaking on behalf of the agency or was he speaking as a member of the agency?

    For sure he could not speak on behalf of the European Commission, ENISA mandate is providing expertise and advice over laws and regulations, but their role stops there.

  5. Ledswinger Silver badge

    How much cross border info sharing is there?

    All this worrying about sharing intelligence is all very well, but AFAICS it doesn't seem to have foiled many plots, nor stopped the international mobility of the perps, either in the serious and organised crime area, or paedodrugterrorism. A few cases of co-ordination I'll grant you, but the various intell agencies haven't covered themselves in glory on their respective home turf, so I have to wonder what the big deal is..

  6. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    Haven't you also found it to be spookily so practically every time?

    UK-EU infosec data sharing may not be KO'd by Brexit, reckons ENISA bod

    It is those sorts of little exceptions to the rule that rule with Madness and Mayhem in CHAOS ..... Clouds Hosting Advanced Operating System for the Tempests that are Live Operational Virtual Environments.

    Juicy Lucy Territory for Virgin AI Soldiers and Virtual Pioneers alike, methinks. And with Alien Landscapes to Further Design with Impeccably Tasteful Future Builds.

  7. Cliff Thorburn

    Both the program, and Intelligent Design are universal, and therefore it neither can/nor could be KO’d.

    Brexit, like all other already phormed future events is/was/has already been written into the script long ago.

    Whether an event is right or wrong for the good of the people would be the determining and overriding factor it would be nice to believe, and surely the underlying rationale to implement such a wrecking ball in motion.

    Perhaps now would be a good time to consider the words “love thy neighbour”, and perhaps “better the devil you know”

    As with much and all on the grand stage of the great game, the truth is stranger than fiction.

  8. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    A Logical Course of Necessary ACTive IT

    Whether an event is right or wrong for the good of the people would be the determining and overriding factor it would be nice to believe, and surely the underlying rationale to implement such a wrecking ball in motion. .... CT

    Whenever the series of events are SNAFU you need to believe the determining and overriding factors utilised about what is right and wrong for the good of the people are fundamentally corrupted and perverse and worthy of subversion and scorched earth actions .... Persistent Advanced Cyber Threats rather than Treats. Such is perfectly natural and fully to be expected and energetically supported by any and all presuming or assuming they be led by a growing and greater intelligence.

    1. Cliff Thorburn

      Re: A Logical Course of Necessary ACTive IT

      It was once said to me amfM “Do the right things and the right things will happen”.

      What happens when the right things become the wrong things, especially when delivered by a questionable guiding hand?, and in particular when such a guiding hand changes direction over what seems like almost a decade.

      The persistent threat ‘is’ the guiding hand, and not that which is expected to follow, that which follows loses perhaps not its own integrity but identity, and becomes reliant not on ambiguity but instruction and nothing more than a practical prisoner of war.

      “Fear is not an effective motivator”, a quote from a rerun of a Netflix series watched whilst whiling wasted days attempting to interpret said instrumental instructions, and indeed in itself a said truth, nothing can be achieved by terrorising an individual to a point where a said task or tasks SIMply are impossible to perform, and therein lies the fundamental flaw in the execution of the mundanity of the process.

      Event + Reaction = Outcome, the reaction is dependant and determined by the program, the problem is not the program but the ability to ‘see’ the program, a machine would simply execute the program, and not be influended by such factors as moral judgement, and therein lies the problem.

  9. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    Softly Softly Catchee Monkey

    Event + Reaction = Outcome, the reaction is dependant and determined by the program, the problem is not the program but the ability to ‘see’ the program, a machine would simply execute the program, and not be influended by such factors as moral judgement, and therein lies the problem. ... Cliff Thorburn

    Quite so, CT. The Prime Executive defaulted and degraded to Sub-Prime Action in support of Corrupted Needs and Personalised Feeds.

    The problem though does present to programming visionaries unlimited opportunity to right wrongs with ..... well, SMARTR Virtual AIMachinery take no Fool Prisoners and thus would not always fail by simply ignoring their Instruction Sets.

    1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      Re: Softly Softly Catchee Monkey

      :-)

      And, as is evidenced by the deathly hush here, there is no viable attack or defence position able to deny and/or deflect that particular and peculiar revelation/opinion because such an opposition or competition simply opens up further wounds to quickly destroy pathetic and apathetic hosts/sub-prime servers.

      It is, however, not anything you need to be worried about or terrified of, unless of course one be thoroughly deserving of it.

      1. Cliff Thorburn

        Re: Softly Softly Catchee Monkey

        That would be the case, unless something is verified universally to be correct, with documented digital certification, and deep wells where secrets dwell.

        Of course, as we know the truth is stranger than fiction, even the parts beyond the comprehension of many.

        Alas, just a puppet on a lonely string amfM .... as we know the future is already written.

        1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

          Re: Softly Softly Catchee Monkey

          Alas, just a puppet on a lonely string amfM .... as we know the future is already written. ... Cliff Thorburn

          Maybe already written but always subject to being completely rewritten before eventual realisation.

          And if written by idiots, what chance do you give their dreams and nightmares in a world nowadays no longer decided to accept such forked tongue fools and blunt tools as leading media with crooked vested interest opinions, CT.

          The Greater Enlightenment has Dawned :-) .... and the System hasn't a clue about what to do for the best as it tries to prop up the worst of its deceptions and misconceptions to prevent the ignorant and abused from learning about how everything is easily done?

          1. Cliff Thorburn

            Re: Softly Softly Catchee Monkey

            And all these woes boil down to Pork Bellies, or Concentrated Frozen OJ ... Sheesh!, great games playing life and soul destroying sporting antics that some would rather turn the page on and Simply move on.

            But let me Guess!, there will be some further plausably undeniablely deniability requirement by the high society, higher nobility.

            As for intelligence, and how such is measured, is it not a fact that the higher the intelligence, or as I like to attribute ‘vision’ the unhappier the subject becomes?, this is true to the fact when the vision unveilled is that of morally devoid institutions unwilling to accept their contribution to a failed system.

            Still, look on the bright side :-)

  10. hammarbtyp Silver badge

    Who's in charge?

    The main issue would be, as far as I see it, remediation, If the UK is allowed to maintain the same data relationship with the EU, what happens if that relationship is taken advantage of by the UK, against EU rules. Since the governmment is adamant that they will nor be beholden to any EU judicial body or any sort of joint oversight, it is hard to see how a data sharing framework could be managed and policed

  11. codejunky Silver badge

    Erm

    Maybe he didnt get the memo? Brexit is bad and nothing will work afterwards, almost like an EMP goes off, and also everyone evacuates, and the sky throws down fire, and the sea opens up and swallows us etc. I am sure he will get a talking to unless the EU has finally stopped throwing a wobbly, put on its big boy pants and decided to get serious.

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