back to article Oh Deer! Poacher sentenced to 12 months of regular Bambi screenings in the cooler

An outlaw hunter will spend not only the next year or so behind bars, but also must face regular screenings of the Disney film Bambi. The Springfield News-Leader, in Missouri, USA, has the story this month of David Berry Jr, one in a family of four caught hunting trophy bucks without a license. Prosecutors in Lawrence County …

  1. Phil Kingston Silver badge

    'Murica never ceases...

    ... to amaze me. The fact that they allow people to run around with hunting rifles so easily is only narrowly outdone by the ridiculousness of some of their sentencing.

    Also, I've never seen Bambi, but have heard what goes on. I'll pass.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Thumb Down

      Re: 'Murica never ceases...

      well, then you won't want to know that LEGAL hunting not only helps pay for conservation, but controls the deer population. It's illegal to shoot a doe, and you're limited in the number of bucks you can hunt. And you can only hunt them in a season where it's easy to tell the bucks from the does, and a bit of herd-thinning would actually be GOOD for the deer population.

      And I happen to *like* venison. So yeah if you kill it, you must eat the meat. or let others do it for ya!

      Or is it the RIFLE part you don't like? Yeah, thought so.

      /me notes that if EVERYONE has a firearm, criminals will be a LOT more afraid to use them to commit crimes...

      (but yeah, poachers should face penalties, regardless)

      1. Phil Kingston Silver badge

        Re: 'Murica never ceases...

        >/me notes that if EVERYONE has a firearm, criminals will be a LOT more afraid to use them to commit crimes...

        Ah, one of those ones.

      2. Potemkine! Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: 'Murica never ceases...

        /* if EVERYONE has a firearm, criminals will be a LOT more afraid to use them to commit crimes... */

        Utter BS, disproved by all statistics on the subject made anywhere in the World.

        1. Timmy B Silver badge

          Re: 'Murica never ceases...

          @Potemkine!

          Got anything that's not over 20 years old like that stats that article uses. I'd also like to see suicide removed form the stats as if you want to do that you'll find a different way. Try harder.

          1. Sixtysix
            Unhappy

            Re: 'Murica never ceases...

            @Timmy B

            " I'd also like to see suicide removed form the stats as if you want to do that you'll find a different way. "

            I can agree that there is an issue with including suicide, but actually most "other" forms of attempted terminal self harm:

            - need a LOT more time between the thought and the action

            - may require planning or things that are not immediately to hand

            - are hard to complete when falling down drunk/under the influence/severely depressed

            - typically seem more unpleaseant as they might involve "pain"

            - have WAY better survival rates

            As a consequence, the relative "ease" of terminal self harm by firearm increases the risk of actual follow through with the intent. Availability of firearms does seem to increase the likelihood of someone actually attempting suicide, so skews the figures - but sadly a proportion of suicide by firearm is directly responsible to availability of method.

            1. JimJimmyJimson

              Re: 'Murica never ceases...

              Suicide would seem to be irrelevant as in most jurisdictions Suicide is now legal. If you want to shoot yourself go nuts.

          2. Mephistro Silver badge

            Re: 'Murica never ceases...(@ Timmy B)

            "Got anything that's not over 20 years old like that stats that article uses."

            Perhaps you should have read the whole article, where it states clearly the reasons for the absence of up-to-date statistics. In short, a political party sponsored by an industry quasi-NGO* made it illegal researching this issue AND receiving public research funds.

            Hints: GOP, NRA. ;^)

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: 'Murica never ceases...(@ Timmy B)

              "made it illegal researching this issue AND receiving public research funds."

              I understand your confusion, you've been lied to by the news pundits you trust but it doesn't make it true. The law never made it illegal. Here's the relevant section which reads:

              "... none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control..."

              So what it makes illegal is partisan lobbying. They can do all the research they like and even publish the studies but they aren't allowed to take a partisan position on the issue or lobby for certain legislation. See, here's some from a few years ago:

              https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/Firearm.htm

              Besides, Trump already made the media 'happy' by signing a law months ago:

              https://www.npr.org/2018/03/25/596805354/cdc-now-has-authority-to-research-gun-violence-whats-next

              Now can you stop whining?

          3. baud

            Re: 'Murica never ceases...

            With an username like Potemkine, doing ass-pull isn't surprising, no?

          4. MonkeyCee Silver badge

            Re: 'Murica never ceases...

            "I'd also like to see suicide removed form the stats "

            Why? People with access to pistols commit suicide at a much higher rate than those that don't (eg vets in the UK). It's the same way that people with swimming pools drown more often (and a swimming pool is more likely to kill a child than a gun in the same house), there is a clear correlation.

            I'm fairly sure that gun owners aren't any more suicidal than the rest of the population, it's just an extremely easy way to top yourself. Still doesn't change that roughly two thirds of firearm fatalities are self inflicted.

            As far as recording a verdict of suicide, there are a variety of reasons why a coroner might record accidental death from self inflicted injuries rather than suicide. If there is a clear pattern of someone winding up their life, putting their affairs in order, leaving a note and doing it, then probably. But the stigma and shame attached to it, and the guilt those left behind feel, may make it easier to lay the blame as an accident.

            Plus accidents with firearms happen, so splitting up the cases is tricky.

            The only people who are doing much study of it seem to be the military, since 22 veterans take their own lives each day. Often with a gun.

        2. rg287

          Re: 'Murica never ceases...

          Utter BS, disproved by all statistics on the subject made anywhere in the World.

          But nonetheless confused by the fact that the Czech Republic has one of the highest rates of private firearms ownership in Europe and even allows Concealed Carry (subject to stringent licensing and a test), but has a homicide rate half that of the UK.

          When you come down to it, rates of violence have nothing to do with rates of firearms ownership and significantly more to do with having a sensible regulatory regime in place.

          For instance, the UK is unique in Europe in prohibiting pistols. But as mentioned, our homicide rate is far higher than that of countries like the Czech Republic, Sweden or Switzerland where firearms and shooting are a part of life.

          A variety of societal problems causes violence and crime in the first instance (and the US, with it's limited social welfare and socialised healthcare suffers many problems that we don't have in Europe. The entire premise of Breaking Bad is implausible in Europe). Firearms are only a secondary consideration to that, and the US has a problem because of lax licensing (rather than widespread ownership) and a reprehensibly irresponsible mass media who glorify mass shooters and encourage copy-cats (unfortunately European media is going the same way - e.g. putting a shock jock like Piers Morgan on Good Morning Britain).

          1. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

            Re: 'Murica never ceases...

            @rg287 "confused by the fact that the Czech Republic has one of the highest rates of private firearms ownership in Europe and even allows Concealed Carry (subject to stringent licensing and a test), but has a homicide rate half that of the UK."

            But about five time the homicide rate by firearm,..... and the homicide rate is _now_ lower than that of the UK, but hasn't always been.

            1. rg287

              Re: 'Murica never ceases...

              But about five time the homicide rate by firearm,..... and the homicide rate is _now_ lower than that of the UK, but hasn't always been.

              True, but who cares whether you get stabbed or shot to death? The fact of the matter is, half as many people are dead despite some 12.5% of the population owning firearms (compared to 1% in the UK).

              Even if their overall homicide rate were the same as the UK's, the numbers quite clearly demonstrate that violence equates to a complex mix of societal and regulatory factors, not to rates of gun ownership - as is often claimed by a naive comparison of UK/Europe to USA. Correlation =/= Causation.

              It's time people stopped being dogmatic about this and started drawing evidence-based conclusions (unfortunately the Home Office are refusing to buck this trend, having fabricated a variety of problems to fit their "solution" in their Offensive Weapons Bill).

              1. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

                Re: 'Murica never ceases...

                @rg287 "half as many people are dead"

                At the moment,.... the homicide rate has historically been higher than that of the UK, and could exceed it again at some point. And yes it matters whether people got shot, because it demonstrates the correlation that more guns = more gun homicides.

      3. Teiwaz Silver badge

        Re: 'Murica never ceases...

        /me notes that if EVERYONE has a firearm, criminals will be a LOT more afraid to use them to commit crimes...

        If Everyone potentially has a firearm, the Police will remain jumpy on the trigger when confronting members of the public, criminal or otherwise.

        Or does this come under positive herd-thinning as well?

        1. ratfox Silver badge

          Re: 'Murica never ceases...

          Hunting rifles are generally not very useful to perpetrate or prevent crimes, and the vast majority of countries allow hunting, though often license the activity and regulate it. And as in this case, punish violators.

          I think the US gun laws are generally crazy, but it would be fairly ridiculous to ban hunting in the country.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: 'Murica never ceases...

            BRITAIN never ceases to demonstrate shameless bigotry. Go look it up, involves assigning (usually pejorative) judgments on all members of a group based on religious, ethnic, or national identity.

            You've conveniently forgotten that Britain used to allow private ownership if firearms and HUNTING? But that was taken away (with your balls) in the name of terrorism, same justification for Britain's illegal surveillance state. But now you love Big Brother so you defend being helpless sheep. You poor sods have to let invaders beat and maim your family because it's illegal to defend yourself. But by all means enjoy being government-mandated victims and judge the rest of the world you know nothing about beyond what your liberal biased news tells you to think. Enjoy your crime-friendly nation!

            1. Timmy B Silver badge

              Re: 'Murica never ceases...

              @AC: RE: "You've conveniently forgotten that Britain used to allow private ownership if firearms and HUNTING?"

              No. I hunt and have guns. You are simply wrong.

            2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Re: 'Murica never ceases...

              You've conveniently forgotten that Britain used to allow private ownership if firearms and HUNTING?

              They're still allowed, and hunting is still one of the main reasons for having a firearm. Or pest control. Or just target shooting. It's even possible to get a concealed carry permit for a pistol, but you'd need very very compelling reasons to get that licence. Then there's Northern Ireland, which has a somewhat more relaxed approach & where competitive shooters tend to base from. Main difference is being able to give a good reason for owning a firearm, and it being practical. Want a .600 Nitro express? Show you're a big game hunter and it could be added to your FAC. You'd probably not get one for hunting in the UK because we don't have big game, and zoos get upset if you hunt there. .223 or .308 are common for deer stalkers though.

              But that was taken away (with your balls)

              Our balls are just fine, and spoons await winners of shooting matches at Bisley. Plus a chair ride. I guess we Brits have an odd relationship with firearms. Or maybe it's just Bisley.

            3. Martin-73 Silver badge

              Re: 'Murica never ceases...

              Liberal biased news? you're kidding right? Have you seen the bbc?

            4. Wellyboot Silver badge

              Re: 'Murica never ceases...

              @a/c >>>You've conveniently forgotten that Britain used to allow private ownership if firearms and HUNTING? But that was taken away (with your balls) in the name of terrorism<<<

              I shouldn't feed them I know but..

              No. we're just civilized & have very tight regulations following the Dunblain massacre (1 Teacher + 16 5&6 year olds killed) and unlike America we haven't had regular repeat episodes of children being shot en mass.

              Muzzle loading pistols are allowed as are many rifle types.

              Shotguns are allowed if you are of good character and can secure them when not in use.

              But here's the best bit - Smooth barrel + bore 2 inch or less + any barrel length over 24 inches is classed as a shotgun, so basically I can legally own a 50mm/L60 gun for hunting. but with no real rules on shotgun ammunition types I could used FSDS ammunition to hit the bird from about 3 miles away. (you will need to wait a while for the dog to bring back the bird)

        2. John F***ing Stepp

          Re: 'Murica never ceases...

          'If Everyone potentially has a firearm, the Police will remain jumpy on the trigger when confronting members of the public, criminal or otherwise.'

          Actually; no.

          In Indiana, where one can get a lifetime CCW, the police do expect you to be armed; it is no big deal.

          In other states it is very possible to be shot down if you are suspected of carrying a weapon.

          Because in those states you would be a dangerous felon and legal to be taken without a game tag.

          So, safer to live in Indiana armed or not.

      4. jmch Silver badge
        Mushroom

        Re: 'Murica never ceases...

        Culling deer - good both for deer population and for the forests

        Poaching - bad

        Everyone willy-nilly having a firearm just because - also bad

        Justifying everyone having a firearm because crims will also have - ridiculous

        Rather than just losing hunting privileges, these chaps should have also lost firearm privileges. No need to catch them hunting - find them in possession of a hunting rifle and in the slammer they go again.

        Talking about 2nd amendment is just blather. A constitution isn't written in stone, that's WHY you have amendments in the first place. If stuff that's in there is outdated / not working / just plain wrong, you change it. Otherwise you'd still have slavery

        1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: 'Murica never ceases...

          Rather than just losing hunting privileges, these chaps should have also lost firearm privileges. No need to catch them hunting - find them in possession of a hunting rifle and in the slammer they go again.

          AFAIK, if you're convicted of a felony, you lose the right to firearms and it can be another felony if you're then caught with a rifle.

          But I don't think these folks were true hunters. I've always beileved (and practiced) that you eat what you kill* and these were just trophy hunters. Probably to sell those on. I also think proper wildlife management is more humane than letting populations get out of control, diseased or just injured from horny bucks fighting.

          As for punishment.. At least they weren't dressed up in furry deer costumes and released on open season.

          *Had to be discrete about that one in the Army..

      5. tiggity Silver badge

        Re: 'Murica never ceases...

        Culling is only required because the predators have been persecuted.

        UK is not any better (no wolves or bears left in UK at all, at least a few populations still in US)

        1. Timmy B Silver badge

          Re: 'Murica never ceases...

          "Culling is only required because the predators have been persecuted."

          Ermmmm - Culling is a deer predator predating deer.. We are a deer predator. In fact we are an apex predator that eats many prey species.

        2. M. Poolman

          Re: 'Murica never ceases...

          Erm I don't think that bears prey on deer

          1. TRT Silver badge

            Re: Erm I don't think that bears prey on deer...

            But do beers prey on dears?

          2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

            Re: 'Murica never ceases...

            Erm I don't think that bears prey on deer

            They do. Reference: Attenborough, life of mammals, omnivores episode.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: 'Murica never ceases...

            "Erm I don't think that bears prey on deer"

            ROFLOL!!! That's the standard of ignorance I expect from the America-bashers! But you'll insult and condemn based on your lack of understanding anyway. Go watch the news so you'll know what to think.

          4. Timmy B Silver badge

            Re: 'Murica never ceases...

            RE : "Erm I don't think that bears prey on deer"

            Grizzlys do.

            1. M. Poolman

              Re: 'Murica never ceases...

              RE : "Erm I don't think that bears prey on deer"

              Grizzlys do.

              Really? I thought that a deer would probably be to quick.

              1. Chris Parsons
                Headmaster

                Re: 'Murica never ceases...

                'quick' isn't a verb.

              2. Timmy B Silver badge

                Re: 'Murica never ceases...

                A grizzly and a white tail will do about the same top speed with a grizzly just about topping it on a sprint. About 30mph iirc. They also, like many other predators, will out stamina a deer.

      6. dnicholas Bronze badge

        Re: 'Murica never ceases...

        >>Or is it the RIFLE part you don't like? Yeah, thought so.

        /me notes that if EVERYONE has a firearm, criminals will be a LOT more afraid to use them to commit crimes...

        HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

        Yeah, thought so

        1. NukEvil
          Thumb Down

          Re: 'Murica never ceases...

          Hi, how's your lack of free speech coming along?

          Oh, you're in jail for speaking out against your country's liberal migrant policy?

          Isn't that a shame. If only you had some sort of lethal tool to defend yourselves from the government which is trying to replace you with, ahem, shall we say, less-skilled and more easily-controlled people...

          1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

            Re: 'Murica never ceases...

            "Hi, how's your lack of free speech coming along?

            Oh, you're in jail for speaking out against your country's liberal migrant policy?

            Isn't that a shame. If only you had some sort of lethal tool to defend yourselves from the government which is trying to replace you with, ahem, shall we say, less-skilled and more easily-controlled people..."

            Really?

            If our lack of free speech was so bad, how come cunts like you get to post here?

            Jail for speaking out.....? Too much fox news, there, laddie.

            "Easily controlled people" - that's rich coming from a trumpet

      7. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

        Re: 'Murica never ceases...

        Bob was doing well until he went all NRA. So close to an upvote. So very, very close.

      8. Richard Parkin

        Re: 'Murica never ceases...

        If you only kill bucks it will have very little effect in controlling deer numbers. Wolves will do a better job ;-) .

        I upvoted you, never thought that would happen :-(

      9. Andrew Moore Silver badge

        Re: 'Murica never ceases...

        Everyone does have a firearm and criminals are not afraid to use them to commit crime.

        Or, by any chance, when you say "everyone" are you including toddlers?

        1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

          Re: 'Murica never ceases...

          "Or, by any chance, when you say "everyone" are you including toddlers?"

          I think they are , i've never heard of any age limits on owning a gun in the US, i could be wrong though.

          just googled it , i am wrong age = 12 in 30 states - the rest: anything goes

          21 to have a drink

          14 to drive a car

          help yourself to a rifle

          15 can get married in some states

          did they pick these numbers out of a hat?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: 'Murica never ceases...

            >15 can get married in some states

            Much younger actually - though I'm very much anti-gun as a rule - these girls should probably be armed.

            https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/200000-children-married-us-15-years-child-marriage-child-brides-new-jersey-chris-christie-a7830266.html

            Land of the free and all that.

        2. 's water music Silver badge
          Unhappy

          Re: 'Murica never ceases...

          Everyone does have a firearm and criminals are not afraid to use them to commit crime.

          Or, by any chance, when you say "everyone" are you including toddlers?

          DKUATB

        3. Jamie Jones Silver badge

          Re: 'Murica never ceases...

          "Or, by any chance, when you say "everyone" are you including toddlers?"

          Why not? Republican congressmen back arming 3 year olds:

          https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/tv/republicans-back-fake-guns-kids-scheme-sacha-baron-cohen-satire-n891616

      10. Timmy B Silver badge

        Re: 'Murica never ceases...

        @Bob

        It's one of those days... I totally agree with you. I shoot and butcher my own deer. I also tan the hides and use the bones and sinew for various things. I also wish that firearms for self protection were allowed in the UK.

        I'll go have a lie down now..

        1. hopkinse
          Stop

          Re: 'Murica never ceases...

          keep your guns to yourself please

        2. phuzz Silver badge

          Re: 'Murica never ceases...

          "I also wish that firearms for self protection were allowed in the UK."

          Protection from what exactly?

          1. TRT Silver badge

            Re: Protection from what exactly? (In the UK)

            Erm... people not queueing up nicely (he's pushing in!), people who have leaky headphones on public transport (tsh...tsh...tsh...tsh...tsh...), people who make eye contact on the tube (PAEDOPHILE rapist!!!!), getting short changed at the post office.

          2. Timmy B Silver badge

            Re: 'Murica never ceases...

            "Protection from what exactly?"

            Do you actually live in the UK? I do - in quiet rural Somerset and have been held up at knife point 100 feet from my house! With police becoming scarcer and scarcer and more concerned with people causing offence who else is going to protect us?

            1. Martin-73 Silver badge

              Re: 'Murica never ceases...

              Not sure why you got the downvotes there. The reluctance of the police to do anything because of resources is slowly changing my mind on the firearms for protection thing. After all its allowed in NI!

              1. Ledswinger Silver badge

                Re: 'Murica never ceases...

                The reluctance of the police to do anything because of resources

                There's a lot more to it than that. It isn't so much about police numbers, its what they're allowed and encouraged to do, what they choose to prioritise, and how effective they are.

                Take for example all that shouty,civil liberties crap that caused the widespread suspension of stop and search a few years back. A triumph for the equality fighters! Well done all who spoke out! And as a result you can now carry a knife as a weapon with next to nil chance of being caught, unless you do something that attracts a proper police investigation. And we have regular stabbings and knife murders in London, heavily biased to the communities that objected to stop and search. Luckily, despite the Met wanting to reintroduce widespread use of S&S, that brave fellow Mayor Khan is opposed to it, happy to trade (mostly) the lives of young men for extra votes.

                In 2005, there were around 15% more police officers (excl absent) than their were in 2016. The murder tally in 2005 was 764, compared to 723 in 2016. And if we step away from murders, and look at the composite ONS Crime Survey data, that shows a near straight line decline from 2002 to 2016. So it would seem that it isn't about the numbers of officers.

      11. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

        Re: 'Murica never ceases...

        @bombastic bob "and a bit of herd-thinning would actually be GOOD for the deer population."

        Utter horse puckey, because I've never, ever heard of a hunter surveying the population numbers before taking an animal. EVER.

        1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

          Re: 'Murica never ceases...

          Utter horse puckey, because I've never, ever heard of a hunter surveying the population numbers before taking an animal. EVER.

          That's where legal hunting vs poaching comes in. Any decent hunter (ie not Italian) knows that if you blast everything, you'll be left with nothing to hunt*. See the American Passenger Pigeon for more info. Then it comes down to who's land you're on, and who's managing it. So say, Scotland, convince a gnarly game keeper you're safe and competent with a rifle, and he'll take you to the deer he wants culled.

          Same is (I think) true for the US, where numbers are factored into the number of permits issued or kills allowed. And the US wildlife officers have a LOT of search & seizure powers to deal with miscreants.

          *Liberals are a protected species and can't be hunted.

          1. Dave K Silver badge

            Re: 'Murica never ceases...

            In Germany, hunting is allowed, however there is a strict registration process for this. Population numbers are monitored and surveyed by specialist groups (not the hunters themselves) and each hunter is therefore only permitted to shoot a strict quota of animals within a clearly defined region to maintain population and health of the forests/farms. Any indication that a hunter is exceeding their quota means revocation of the license. And as the license also governs the rifle, this is confiscated when a license is lost.

            The system works pretty well. Populations are controlled and hunters know exactly how many deer/boar they can shoot in a particular period. It also ensures that the pelt, meat and everything else are used as this generates the income for the hunter.

            1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

              Re: 'Murica never ceases...

              and each hunter is therefore only permitted to shoot a strict quota of animals within a clearly defined region to maintain population and health of the forests/farms.

              Except for rabbits. The one thing I have always noted when travelling through Germany is that nearly every field has a gunner's hut on the edge providing nice complete coverage.

              I would have loved this to exist in the UK. Anyone objecting - try to deal with a kid who is watching her pet going away from Myxomatosis after the local farmer has used this "more humane" means of rabbit management (despite it being completely illegal under current law).

          2. Robert Helpmann?? Silver badge
            Childcatcher

            Re: 'Murica never ceases...

            That's where legal hunting vs poaching comes in.

            In this case, it is not simply that the asshat was hunting out of season and trespassing (typical poaching, in other words), it was that he was just taking heads and leaving the rest to rot. It is illegal to do that even if you have proper license and are hunting in season on land you are permitted to be on. And with good reason! Whatever one's view on consumption of meat, hunting or firearms, it shouldn't be hard to understand that killing an animal simply for the sake of doing so and then wasting the meat is wrong.

            In the US, there are a variety of laws concerning what can be hunted and when due to the variety of jurisdictions. The most important components are state and tribal laws though there are some areas where federal and local jurisdictions have their say. Same for fishing, though that doesn't seem to evoke the same sort of sentiments against the practice as hunting even though they seem morally equivalent to me. The crims in this case were previously convicted of poaching fish. Also, it does not mention this in either the El Reg article or the linked one, but items used in the commission of a crime are subject to forfeiture. These individuals may have also lost their weapons, vehicles and possibly other things depending on the circumstances of their many crimes.

            1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

              Re: 'Murica never ceases...

              In the US, there are a variety of laws concerning what can be hunted and when due to the variety of jurisdictions.

              On that note (and I agree with your other comments).. What happens on private land? So assuming a large enough chunk of land to support a deer herd, would culling be a matter for the land owner, or would that still be permitted/regulated? I'm assuming a sensible landowner who understands why there are closed & open seasons. At least in the UK, poaching's traditionally been for food rather than trophies though.

              1. Robert Helpmann?? Silver badge
                Childcatcher

                Re: 'Murica never ceases...

                What happens on private land? So assuming a large enough chunk of land to support a deer herd, would culling be a matter for the land owner, or would that still be permitted/regulated? I'm assuming a sensible landowner who understands why there are closed & open seasons.

                Laws for private landowners typically are regulated by whatever jurisdiction they are in although there may be additional restrictions or allowances compared to hunting on public lands. Also, it should be noted that hunting wild animals is different in many locales than hunting in a game park for animals raised for the purpose. I am unfamiliar with which laws apply in those cases as I have never dealt with them, but I am aware they are not necessarily the same as for hunting wild animals. I know that in some areas, landowners are allowed extra permits specifically to be used on their property in addition to any used on public lands. Also, where friction often occurs is between farmers who are not pleased with wild animals raiding their crops and the state which claims the ability to dictate who can dispose of which animals.

                I should note for those who are unfamiliar with animal populations in the US in general, and especially deer, we have plenty of wildlife that encroaches into urban areas. I work in the Washington DC area and have found deer in my front yard (I live in a townhouse community) and have even seen them along the beltway which is well within a very built-up urban area. As noted elsewhere, the lack of animal predators have allowed some species to flourish. That is not to say that there have not been efforts to bring back those predators. For example, there has been a successful* program to re-establish the black bear in Louisiana.

                * The definition of "successful" depending on how you feel about a large omnivore living in proximity to humans.

                1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                  Re: 'Murica never ceases...

                  Also, where friction often occurs is between farmers who are not pleased with wild animals raiding their crops and the state which claims the ability to dictate who can dispose of which animals.

                  Thanks, and I think there are similar frictions and regulations in the UK, especially for 'pest' species like rabbits. I think if a neighbour can show damage, then they can require the landowner deals with it. Same may hold true with deer given their territorial nature, but in my bit of the UK, we mostly get muntjacs.. In the town centre graveyard near me! They're dog-sized, and apparently not very tasty so left alone.

                  I should note for those who are unfamiliar with animal populations in the US in general, and especially deer, we have plenty of wildlife that encroaches into urban areas.

                  Yup. I watched the Alaskan State Troopers show that had a few encounters wth moose & bears in people's yards. Plus some gorgeous landscapes. The UK's main urban pest are foxes, which will have more fun now our government's proposing we put out food waste in a handy tub. Which won't be fox proof and will add to the mess. At least we don't have bears!

              2. Ghostman

                Re: 'Murica never ceases...

                We had a farm in Twiggs County, Ga. Some mornings you could walk a field of peas and see where the deer would straddle a row of plants and snip the pods as if you had taken a pair of scissors and cut the.

                Local Department of natural Resources set up a all year/no limit permit that allowed us to hunt the deer at night. When a deer was harvested, the Game Warden would come by, register the deer, take the animal to a processor, and the meat was donated to local needs (food bank, children's' home, veterans' hospital).

                I remember the wardens saying that the hide was sold to help pay the expenses for the project.

                PS: We're coming to England and Australia to make you own guns. Take That.

                1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                  Re: 'Murica never ceases...

                  I remember the wardens saying that the hide was sold to help pay the expenses for the project.

                  PS: We're coming to England and Australia to make you own guns. Take That.

                  You'll be on a hiding to nothing. We still produce some of the world's finest sporting guns (AI included?). And perhaps bizarrely, our Firearms Act would have been printed and signed on vellum. Despite efforts of our less noble Lords to force a change to common paper.. But our common MPs refused and carried on the tradition. Not sure if the hides for producing vellum for our Acts come from the Crown's estates though.

                  (Australia also has a lot of hunting, especially for pest control trying to deal with all the invasive species that got introduced.)

            2. MonkeyCee Silver badge

              Re: 'Murica never ceases...

              "Same for fishing, though that doesn't seem to evoke the same sort of sentiments against the practice as hunting even though they seem morally equivalent to me."

              Apart from flying helicopters in otherwise peaceful places, anglers generally are not much hassle when you're sharing their space in the great outdoors.

              Hunters, and I'm going with the responsible ones here, hopefully mean that you just have to wear blaze and you hear the odd shot. I'm not too bothered, some people are freaked out by gunshots. I guess you could kill a person with a fishing pole, but someone carrying a long gun looks like a soldier to many people.

              Dangerous idiots with guns, like these clowns, deserve all the punishment they can get.

              I've been camping with shooters nearby lamping. Shining a light around, shooting at anything that reflects the light. Not safe, no idea if it was in season.

              What would the advice be? I hear tell of having a gun for self defence, but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable firing a long gun at another person if they were just being dangerous, and not actually trying to kill me. Shining a light might get me shot at, which I'm not keen on.

              Rather boringly what I did was call the cops and DoC (it was public land managed by them), then dug a shallow trench and cowered in my sleeping bag in it.

              All for hunting by people who know what their doing. Bring the hammer down on those that aren't, they're a public menace.

              1. Robert Helpmann?? Silver badge
                Childcatcher

                Re: 'Murica never ceases...

                I've been camping with shooters nearby lamping. Shining a light around, shooting at anything that reflects the light. Not safe, no idea if it was in season.

                What would the advice be? I hear tell of having a gun for self defence, but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable firing a long gun at another person if they were just being dangerous, and not actually trying to kill me.

                Interesting. In the US, lamping is called spotlighting and is illegal in all cases that I am aware of. There may be some place that hunting at night is allowed, but I don't know of any.

                While I get the idea of having a gun for self defense, the situation you describe is definitely not one where that would work. My advice is to remove yourself and anyone with you from danger as rapidly as possible and then to call the cops. Personally, if I feel that I might be headed toward a situation where I need a gun for defense, I am going to start looking for another place to be. I am fine with gun use for hunting and sport, but I don't want to be in an area where there is even the perceived need for their use against another person.

                1. Kernel

                  Re: 'Murica never ceases...

                  "There may be some place that hunting at night is allowed, but I don't know of any."

                  In New Zealand 'spotlighting" for the brush-tailed possum seems to be a common hunting activity, the more so since there's no seasonal restrictions and no daily bag limit - the more the merrier, in fact.

                  I'm not a hunter myself, but it's a common activity so I would guess that it's probably legal.

                2. Jellied Eel Silver badge

                  Re: 'Murica never ceases...

                  While I get the idea of having a gun for self defense, the situation you describe is definitely not one where that would work. My advice is to remove yourself and anyone with you from danger as rapidly as possible and then to call the cops.

                  Sensible advice. A solid set of doors, exterior lighting and an Akita are probably a safer bet than a firearm. Especially if you post signs saying "Intruders are welcome to feed the dogs". Personally, I don't think firearms are safe in the UK for self-defence. Mainly because our intruders aren't armed, and most of our population has no idea about firearms safety. And thanks to the ban, there aren't many ranges left where people could train. And with our fairly dense population, mag dumping towards someone at your door may not please your neighbors across the street. Same with the idea of concealed carry & dealing with terrorists.. Which are thankfully rare, and having multiple armed people would make 'friendly fire' more likely, and a tougher time for the police specialists to identify friend from foe.

                  That being said, I'd like to be able to shoot pistols competitively again, but with range closures, I think that ship has sailed.

                  1. TRT Silver badge

                    Re: but with range closures, I think that ship has sailed.

                    Whalley Range is still open...

        2. Timmy B Silver badge

          Re: 'Murica never ceases...

          RE: "Utter horse puckey, because I've never, ever heard of a hunter surveying the population numbers before taking an animal. EVER."

          I am a hunter and I have a DUTY to know my prey - the populations in an area and to responsibly take first the sick, elderly and infirm. It is exactly this reason I am on hold hunting rabbits as they are suffering terribly from haemoaagic fever near me. If you don't be responsible then you should not hunt.

          1. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

            Re: 'Murica never ceases...

            @Timmy B

            .The problem I have is people like this:

            http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy264/tanjipete/Picture503.jpg

            That shoot everything in sight.

      12. Cynic_999 Silver badge

        Re: 'Murica never ceases...

        "

        /me notes that if EVERYONE has a firearm, criminals will be a LOT more afraid to use them to commit crimes...

        "

        Exactly, which is why the USA has far fewer gun-related murders than countries that ban firearms.

        Oh - wait ...

      13. Jamie Jones Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: 'Murica never ceases...

        "/me notes that if EVERYONE has a firearm, criminals will be a LOT more afraid to use them to commit crimes..."

        No, in that case, criminals will 1) *always* make sure they are armed more heavily. 2) Shoot first, ask questions later.

      14. Boo Radley

        Re: 'Murica never ceases...

        Speaking only for myself, if guns were outlawed I still know where to get one, and I'd feel far more certain that the person I want to rob wouldn't have one to protect himself, as most people wouldn't want to break the law by having a gun. And, as a criminal, I couldn't care less that I'm breaking the law by having one.

        1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

          Re: 'Murica never ceases...

          "Speaking only for myself, if guns were outlawed I still know where to get one, and I'd feel far more certain that the person I want to rob wouldn't have one to protect himself, as most people wouldn't want to break the law by having a gun. And, as a criminal, I couldn't care less that I'm breaking the law by having one."

          And as a criminal, you'd also know that you were much less likely to need to carry a gun.

          Some people say no to the arms race...

  2. Shadow Systems Silver badge

    Only one viewing a month?

    Fuck that. Strap his ass into a chair ala Clockwork Orange & force that bastard to watch it on endless rerun until his brain (if it exists) oozes out his ears. By the time he's released after serving his sentance you want him so frightened of anything with horns that he can't go home again until/unless they strip the place of trophy heads first. Sing the theme song in earshot & he runs screaming from the place. And that should go for the whole lot o' 'em. Taking their licenses away won't do a damn thing, but forcing them to watch Bambi for 24 hours a day 7 days a week for a full year JUST might pound the lesson home.

    Guns aren't the problem, assholes that don't give a fuck about the law is the problem. You don't punish the tool if someone uses it to do bad things, you punish the person for doing bad things. The tool is innocent, it's the person that needs to be slapped upside the head.

    1. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

      Re: Only one viewing a month?

      I agree some sort of empathy-for-your-fellow-man (or in this case beast) classes should be taught.

      Or is that a bit too Clockwork Orange?

      Is it ok to try to teach the thug who beats pensioners to a pulp in order to steal a little jewelry that that is not ok?

      Or is that Mind control ? or against human rights?

      Didnt work out well in the film "Serenity"

    2. Jeffrey Nonken Silver badge

      Re: Only one viewing a month?

      As the father of a little girl who used to watch Snow White once a day for nearly a year (it would have been multiple times per day had we not imposed a limit), I can attest that after going through a period of hair-tearing, it ends up being background noise.

      If you actually FORCE them to watch 24/7 then in a few days they'll go insane from lack of sleep. Literally. Seems like a human rights violation and disproportional retribution, though maybe you don't care about things like that wherever you're from.

  3. OssianScotland
    Pint

    Let it Go

    "a long car ride and the soundtracks of Frozen and Moana are, in fact, significantly worse "

    Having once spent 10 hours in a car with Frozen on endless repeat on a screen just behind my head (plus children singing along where appropriate), I can testify to the accuracy of that comment. By the third repeat, I was ready to hurl the damn things (the screens, not the children, although I was sorely tempted) into the middle of the motorway.

    Beer... because I needed several after it was all over

  4. 10forcash

    The herds need to be thinned.

    Both of them.

    My grandfather was a gamekeeper in the Kingdom of Yorkshire, we dined aplenty on Venison - that had been treated with dignity and respect in life & death. Trophy hunters do not deserve that respect.

  5. Andrew Commons

    Well there is always...

    Bambi Meets Godzilla. Now available on YouTube. I saw the VT100 ASCII animation way back, so there a number of ways the sentence can be carried out.

    1. Chozo

      Re: Well there is always...

      Don't forget the infamous Disney Nasty mentioned in The Young Ones...https://youtu.be/m4uuasUO1eE

    2. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: Well there is always...

      saw the VT100 ASCII animation way back

      Ah, I'd forgotten about that, thanks for the reminder.

      For those interested, try here, but on a virtual terminal the action is over too quickly to 'enjoy'.

      1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

        Re: Well there is always...

        "For those interested, try here, but on a virtual terminal the action is over too quickly to 'enjoy'."

        pv -l -L 50 -q < bambi_godzila

  6. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    Well, that's an idea

    For example, I wish we could make these f***ers watch Flipper (*):

    https://media.tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201805191044-h0r6.htm/1.jpg

    Till the end of their lives. Unfortunately not to be, they were declared heroes of anti-Russian resistance and exchanged for some hostages.

    (*)Just to put things in a perspective - I have spent 20+ summers diving, snorkeling and surfing around most of the Black Sea cost line (4 of the countries on it). I have seen a Black Sea porpoise twice. From afar. It has been in the CITES Red Book for 5 decades (at least).

  7. Dr_N Silver badge

    Move to France

    He should have moved to France:

    Where hunters are free to wander in public with loaded, unbroken weapons and murder mountain bikers and old ladies just sitting in their garden, with very little legal action or jail time imposed.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Move to France

      Or Spain for that matter.

      You drive drunk and kill cyclists or pedestrians? You're free to go.

      You and some policemen friends go and rape a woman... sorry I said rape? That's just sexual harassment, just keep coming to work and earning your public-funded salary.

      You sneeze on a flag? Be ready to spend 20 years or more in jail, that's rebellion!

    2. baud

      Re: Move to France

      Considering that last season (and the last few years), 90% of victims were hunters, your claims aren't really honest. And hunter can get convicted of manslaughter.

      1. Dr_N Silver badge

        Re: Move to France

        >Considering that last season (and the last few years), 90% of victims were hunters, your claims aren't really honest. And hunter can get convicted of manslaughter.

        Easy for someone to say if they don't have to run the gauntlet every week.

        They rarely even get banned from hunting.

        I think one got put away (for a whole 4 months) for the 1st time this year for a murder he committed in 2015.

        BTW I'm not anti gun. Everyone should be allowed to carry a sidearm in the French countryside to deter agressive hunters. (The local equivalent of park rangers certainly do.)

  8. Suricou Raven

    This is silly.

    I sense a judge who wants to do something unusual and thus newsworthy to boost his public prominence. This sort of 'creative' sentencing may look great in the press, but it's also inviting an appeal. Forced viewing of Bambi may not be cruel, but it's certainly unusual, and that's quite dubious enough. Plus this 'personal touch' call the impartiality of the judge into question by suggesting they care too much about the nature of the crime rather than seeking to just apply the law free of their own bias.

    1. Richard Parkin

      Re: This is silly.

      Possibly he’s coming up for re-election.

      1. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

        Re: This is silly.

        Electing judges is also silly.

        1. Suricou Raven

          Re: This is silly.

          Electing or appointing, they both have their own problems. Electing leads to debacles like this, where judges put on strange shows for the public, or who brag openly about how they will ignore precedent to pass the rulings the people want regardless of what the law says. Appointing leads to politicians pledging they will elect judges who will do exactly the same thing, advocating the party positions and using their power to rule the way their political sponsors want regardless of what the law says, and judges knowing that the only way to advance to the top ranks is to pick a side and show loyalty to it in their rulings.

          Just look at the US supreme court mess: Everyone talks of a liberal judge or a conservative judge, because they know that a neutral judge just means one that both parties would reject - if such a rare creature can even be found at all.

          Both options suck, but I can't think of any alternatives, so... pick your poison.

          1. Aladdin Sane Silver badge
            1. DougS Silver badge

              Re: This is silly.

              Yep, my state has an independent committee composed of lawyers and judges (all of whom have declared themselves ineligible for any possible future appointment) that nominates judges for the state's supreme court. The governor chooses one from the lot.

              The public votes to keep judges, so if a judge does something egregious he or she can be removed by majority vote but it rarely happens.

              The biggest problem with the US supreme court is 1) the rule requiring 60 votes to invoke cloture was suspended so judges can be passed with a simple majority and 2) in today's political climate we'd need a requirement that if a nomination isn't voted up or down by congress in 180 days, the nomination is deemed to be confirmed. Unfortunately we'd need constitutional amendments to make these happen, since the first is a senate rule the majority leader can suspend and the second would have to be to override the "advice and consent" requirement.

              That way you couldn't get extremists, but only those who were at least somewhat moderate to get the 60 votes, and the party in power can't simply refuse a hearing hoping to "run out the clock" and get their guy in the white house like that chump McConnell did.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Cruel and Unnatural punishment

    What should one expect from a Mickey Mouse judicial system ?

    1. Aladdin Sane Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Cruel and Unnatural punishment

      Oh bravo.

      1. M. Poolman

        Re: Cruel and Unnatural punishment

        Cruel and Unnatural punishment is exactly what I thought when I heard this on the radio. I also thought that there is possibly no better way to inculcate a permanent and psychotic hatred of deer.

        But maybe, just maybe, the judge has a sense of humor. I reminds me of the story a few years back about the young Sudanese(?) goat-herd who was sentenced to marry the goat with whom he'd be caught in flagrante.

    2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: Cruel and Unnatural punishment

      The 8th Amendment prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, not "unnatural". Which is probably just as well, because prisons don't grow on trees.

      Of course, the 8th is largely toothless, because it's so vague. Sensible people consider US bail and sentencing wildly out of control, and certainly excessive (in the case of bail) and cruel (in the case of sentence duration) - though not, alas, unusual.

      But it's only been 20 years since the first time SCOTUS actually struck down a fine as excessive, and they still haven't decided whether the excessive-bail-and-fines clause applies to the States. (A case on that is pending now.)

      And for punishments, courts (I believe) use Brennan's standard, which basically covers punishments that are "degrading to human dignity", "wholly arbitrary", "clearly and totally rejected throughout society", or "patently unnecessary". The qualifiers ("wholly", "totally", and "patently") make the latter three difficult to satisfy, and "degrading to human dignity" is pretty much entirely subjective.

      Aside from some torturous punishments (drawing and quartering, etc), the 8th has primarily been used to restrict capital punishment - something many industrialized nations have disavowed entirely. So executing someone for a crime they committed the day before their 18th birthday is cruel and forbidden, but if Texas wants to fry a hundred 18-year-old offenders, that's just swell. (Hey, did someone say "wholly arbitrary"?)

  10. TheProf
    Joke

    Madness

    Make me watch Bambi too often and I'll feel the need to shoot something.

  11. cam

    "You had enough, or do we break out the Watership Down and Old Yeller collection?"

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "do we break out the Watership Down and Old Yeller collection?"

      Thank you, but I'd rather be shot behind the chemical sheds.

      (Anonymous, but just for the icon. Why can't we use it on regular posts?)

    2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Pfft. Watership Down is pretty upbeat. The rabbits in Hazel and Fiver's original warren get gassed, but we never really know any of them as characters. Fiver's "death" near the end is greatly exaggerated - he gets better.

      Unless you're a big General Woundwort fan, I don't think there's a "Bambi's Mom" equivalent in WD.

  12. Mystic Megabyte Silver badge
    WTF?

    Not my idea of sport

    I was living in Germany but went diving on the west coast of Scotland. On Jura I saw a German registered VW with four guys in camo and holding rifles. "Feck me!", I exclaimed, "It's the fecking German army!"

    Actually they were paying big money to shoot stags. IMHO it takes no skill to kill something with a modern rifle from half a mile away. And of course the numptys wanted the heads as trophys.

    1. M. Poolman

      Re: Not my idea of sport

      Actually I think shooting a deer in the wilds of Jura (an area I know quite well) does take quite a lot of skill, you'd need to be a pretty good marksman to get a clean kill at half a mile regardless of your rifle (and you'd have to be able to demonstrate your capability before the Ghillie would let you take a shot).

      I absolutely agree with the sentiment of "don't kill it if you won't eat it" but carcasses from trophy hunters will end up in local restaurants on Islay or the main land.

      1. Mystic Megabyte Silver badge
        Unhappy

        Re: Not my idea of sport

        I'll upvote you for the "don't kill it if you won't eat it" but I eat some venison in Portree and it was *very* gamey. I presume that it was an elderly stag, I am not an expert in this field. Anyway, the meal was expensive and I forced myself to eat it . I prefer Roe deer :)

        1. M. Poolman

          Re: Not my idea of sport

          I eat some venison in Portree and it was *very* gamey

          Just as long as it didn't come with its own disco rice you'll probably be OK

  13. Richard Scratcher

    Bambi vs Barney

    This isn't a million miles* away from the t̶o̶r̶t̶u̶r̶e̶ punishment used in Guantamo bay, where prisioners were forced to listen to Barney the Dinosaur singing...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SAnuBl0E6s

    *(about 2,000 miles)

  14. Kevin Johnston

    Odd choice of film (beware - spoiler included)

    Yes, I know there is the 'Deer' link and 'Disney' but while the nice judge says he has to watch the film, is there anything to say he is not allowed to cheer when Bamibi's mum gets shot?

    If he chooses to go to sleep while it is playing does he have to sit through another viewing (rinse/repeat until the sentence is over?)

    This is pure justice theatre

    1. Mephistro Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Odd choice of film (beware - spoiler included)

      "...is there anything to say he is not allowed to cheer when Bamibi's mum gets shot?"

      The gag and the electroshocks.

      "...If he chooses to go to sleep while it is playing..."

      I think having his eyelids kept forcibly open for the duration of each viewing will help here.

      Seriously now, if they can force the poor sod to watch Bambi once a month, they can get away with anything!!!

      ;^)

  15. Crisp Silver badge

    You can't buck the system

    He's got plenty of time to stew now.

  16. Anonymous Custard Silver badge
    Trollface

    It's not unusual

    ...the soundtracks of Frozen and Moana are, in fact, significantly worse than monthly viewings of Bambi, but may also run afoul of US laws forbidding cruel and unusual punishment.

    Cruel yes, but sadly not so unusual.

  17. DropBear Silver badge
    Devil

    I can attest to the traumatising powers of Bambi - although I had a double dose seeing as how we had our own version (involving the cutest little fox for a change). Then again, there was a whole LOT of traumatising going on back then - don't ever get me started on what "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" did to me...

  18. MJI Silver badge

    Part of the crime is

    Not eating the meat.

    If you kill it you eat it

  19. Jay Lenovo Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Creepy Poacher Types

    Cutting off shark fins, rhino horns, elephant tusks, and apparently deer heads while leaving the resulting mess for others.

    Being better people, thankfully we don't respond in kind by removing the unlawful parts of their anatomies.

  20. Gene Cash Silver badge

    Shoot 'em all

    Every forest rat deer shot is one less that would suicide by running in front of my car or motorcycle and try to kill me.

    I say good riddance.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Shoot 'em all

      Alternatively, you don't need a license to hunt with a vehicle, just a good strong grill.

      1. Pedigree-Pete Bronze badge
        Flame

        Re: Shoot 'em all

        IANAL but I understood, at least in England and Wales, that such action may be construed as poaching. The driver behind however, would not be guilty. PP

        >> Flame grilled venison.

        1. Timmy B Silver badge

          Re: Shoot 'em all

          RE: "IANAL but I understood, at least in England and Wales, that such action may be construed as poaching. The driver behind however, would not be guilty. PP"

          Actually untrue. If you accidently hit a deer you are required to find the landowner and report it or you are poaching. If you pick up a deer that someone else has hit and don't try to find the landowner then again you are poaching - possibly. Deer all belong to somebody. But the hitting of the deer with the car is not a crime. If you hit other things such as rabbit, squirrel, etc (but not badger - different protection rules) then you are good to go - take it. IANAL but I do know the law surrounding game and foraging.

  21. Boufin

    That's an expensive punishment. That DVD is of a deer.

  22. Gazabone

    Actually, no. If you take the Swiss for example, every adult male is required by law to keep either an assault rifle, sub machine gun or pistol. Additionally, they have one of the highest rates of private firearms ownership in the world but one of the lowest rates of armed crime. I would suggest that the difference between the Swiss and (lets say for the sake of argument) America is that the Swiss have conscription and as part of that are taught the appropriate handling and use of weapons and perhaps many Americans learn from the Action Movies.

    I'm not a supporter of the argument of people having guns stops crime. You may however find a read of Journal of Criminal Justice, Volume 43, Issue 1, January–February 2015, Pages 40-48 of interest. In this article, the hypothesis that higher gun prevalence levels cause higher crime rates, especially higher homicide rates is explored. In brief, they found that technically weak research mostly supports the hypothesis, while strong research does not. It must be tentatively concluded that higher gun ownership rates do not cause higher crime rates, including homicide rates.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      So it's a cultural thing then. All the more reason to try to control gun ownership in trigger-happy countries rather than give a weapon to everyone under the pretext of self-defence.

    2. JLV Silver badge

      research on Swiss military gun access also found it strongly co-related with higher rates of suicide.

    3. Julian Bradfield

      Drivel. Firstly, once the Swiss have finished their service, they *may* keep their rifle subject to successful application for a permit, but few do - I've never met a Swiss who has a military gun in the house. Secondly, they are *not* allowed to have the ammunition for it - that is issued from the local armory only if an emergency arises. (They can use their weapons for training on ranges, but can't take ammunition away from the range.)

  23. JLV Silver badge

    Haida Gwaai, a bigish island in BC, never had deer. The Canadian govt helpfully brought them in. But they have no predators there so they’re literally like rats, overrunning the whole island. Deer will jump over a fence and nuke your garden or farm quick as you please.

    Next the Canadian govt wanted to bring in (also not native to the island) cougars to control the deer.

    Thankfully the local Indian tribe had by that time enough say-so to give that miserable idea the boot.

    But if you like deer hunting (im not a hunter) there is no place in Canada with freeer rules than Haida Gwaii ;-)

  24. Dippywood

    ...but may also run afoul of US laws forbidding cruel and unusual punishment

    This in a country that tells someone that the state will kill them, sometime, eventually, when it finally decides that it can, and then seeks inventive ways to carry out the sentence after a person has spent years on death row.

    Hypocritical, to say the least - Frozen should be the least of their worries

    1. Swarthy Silver badge

      Re: ...but may also run afoul of US laws forbidding cruel and unusual punishment

      The trick here is that the Constitution prohibits "Cruel and Unusual Punishment". if It's done on a normal day-to-day basis (EG: several years waiting for execution, or loading up the charges so that a minor crime ends up with decades of prison time) then while it may be cruel, it is not also unusual.

      This punishment, while unusual, is not particularly cruel; and should pass the sniff test.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    My daughter wasn't traumatised when she saw Bambi, aged 4. Her response was along the lines of "Suck it up, Bambi. Your mum died so that we humans could eat."

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