back to article Brexit-dodging SCISYS Brits find Galileo joy in Dublin

Chippenham-based space systems specialist SCISYS has announced that it will trouser €11.2m as part of a contract to keep the Galileo project running. The award, with Thales Alenia Space France, is for the continuation and enhancement of four Galileo Ground Mission Segments (GMS). The GMS comprises control centres and a network …

  1. Andrew Moore Silver badge

    I don't understand...

    The Brexiteers swore that this kind of thing wouldn't happen...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I don't understand...

      No, they didn't

    2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: I don't understand...

      The (ARCH)Brexiteers are running investment funds which feed on the Dublin real estate market.

      If this does not happen there will be a very beached Blue Whale.

      That was Mogg as one example. I can provide plenty of others which are doing quite well monetizing the demise of British economy.

      1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: I don't understand...

        You don't have to be mad to work here, but it helps

        You don't have to be based in Ireland to work on Galileo, but it helps

    3. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Unhappy

      "The Brexiteers swore that this kind of thing wouldn't happen..."

      They lied?

      Surely not.

    4. streaky Silver badge

      Re: I don't understand...

      The Brexiteers swore that this kind of thing wouldn't happen...

      No, we pointed out explicitly that the EU wouldn't be able to run Galileo without us (true) and latterly that the EU's position makes *no sense* due to the fact there are Israeli companies involved in building the system (also true) and the fact they tried and succeeded for a time to get China involved with the same level of access the UK is looking for (also true). The EU is is a nonsense, and the Galileo project is one of the many many many proofs of that.

      1. Andrew Moore Silver badge

        Re: I don't understand...

        I mean't when they told us that businesses would not move out of the UK because of Brexit...

        1. streaky Silver badge

          Re: I don't understand...

          I mean't when they told us that businesses would not move out of the UK because of Brexit

          Depends on your definition of moving.

          There's far more businesses moving to the UK rather than away from it because of brexit though regardless, and that's all that matters.

          1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
            WTF?

            "There's far more businesses moving to the UK rather than away from it because of brexit"

            You have actual evidence of this?

            I mean real statistics gathered by impartial observers?

            Because there is actual evidence of JLR relocating to Slovakia and BUPA relocating part of its operation to Dublin and Somerset Asset Management (Prop. J Rees-Mogg) setting up a branch in Dublin rather than growing in London

            Do tell whose coming to the UK.

      2. David 164 Bronze badge

        Re: I don't understand...

        UK objected to the chinese being involve which is why they were rejected from the project and all of the military capabilities the system has are banned from being used by third party, which the UK becomes when we leave the EU. This rule was insisted on by the British in the first place.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I don't understand...

      @Andrew More: "The Brexiteers swore this kid of thing wouldn't happen...

      "

      Actually many Brexiteers said this was exactly the sort of thing that would happen.

      Why bother playing fair when you can change the rules and screw over the opposition at every turn? You really think it was the UK holding up the talks for so long? Strangely, our people were sat at the negotiating table waiting for the EU team to stop arguing over who would sit in which seat and what colour the wallpaper should be and where the wine should be from...

      1. David 164 Bronze badge

        Re: I don't understand...

        our team also show up with no documents, no briefing notes and only stayed for a few hours.

  2. Snar

    != Brexit dodging

    I don't blame them in the slightest. Sound move to protect their interests. One of many high tech companies that are running from the carnage that Brexit will bring.

    But so long as we can protect the fishing industry and get gammony blue passports, what could go wrong? As Boris said "Fuck business". At least his younger sibling has some common sense.

    Let's hope we get a Peoples Vote and the ability to get out of this dogs dinner that infighting withing the Tory party has inflicted on the nation.

    1. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: != Brexit dodging

      If brexit goes ahead I would actively encourage all UK companies to consider moving their ownership out to Ireland or the Netherlands. Give the UK public what they asked for.

      I am currently working for a UK company which is owned by a company HQ'd in Germany which in turn is owned by a company HQ'd in the Netherlands.

      1. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge

        Re: != Brexit dodging

        Quote:

        I am currently working for a UK company which is owned by a company HQ'd in Germany which in turn is owned by a company HQ'd in the Netherlands.

        Which ends up playing less corp tax than companies stuck fully in the UK.

        Its that sort of corporate piss taking that encouraged quite a few to vote out.... especially when you're a low paid PAYE employee who cant get out of paying any taxes ....

        1. werdsmith Silver badge

          Re: != Brexit dodging

          Its that sort of corporate piss taking that encouraged quite a few to vote out....

          So they voted out to encourage more of it. Genius.

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: != Brexit dodging

          " especially when you're a low paid PAYE employee who cant get out of paying any taxes"

          A good many of them will find that they can get out of paying any taxes be ceasing to be employees. Those overseas investors who've located plants in the EU so as to have and EU base will be looking to move on.

          1. ToddRundgrensUtopia

            Re: != Brexit dodging

            The Commissioners don't pay any tax at all; how is that a defendable position?

            1. H in The Hague Silver badge

              Re: != Brexit dodging

              "The Commissioners don't pay any tax at all; how is that a defendable position?"

              Do you have a source for that?

              As far as I'm aware EU employees do pay income tax (to the EU, not to the country where they are based). Not sure if commissioners count as employees.

            2. H in The Hague Silver badge

              Re: != Brexit dodging

              My late follow-up to:

              "The Commissioners don't pay any tax at all; how is that a defendable position?"

              That appears to be incorrect, see:

              "EU Commissioners pay almost 45% of their salary on taxes."

              Source: https://ec.europa.eu/info/about-european-commission/eu-budget/how-it-works/fact-check_en

              What was your source for the assertion that they don't pay tax at all?

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: != Brexit dodging

          "Its that sort of corporate piss taking that encouraged quite a few to vote out.... especially when you're a low paid PAYE employee who cant get out of paying any taxes ...."

          A strong supporter of Brexit is the richest man in the UK (£21bn). He is moving to Monaco to avoid paying UK taxes.

          Unlike fellow arch-Brexiter Nigel Lawson who pays French taxes - and has applied for a permanent residence permit to continue living in his house*** there after Brexit.

          ***A nice house it is too.

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: != Brexit dodging

          "Its that sort of corporate piss taking that encouraged quite a few to vote out.... especially when you're a low paid PAYE employee who cant get out of paying any taxes ...."

          So, the obvious solution to that was to burn the house down and then nobody can pay any taxes because they haven't got jobs.

          *slow hand clap* Well done you...

      2. James Anderson

        Re: != Brexit dodging

        Try naming more than five wholly owned UK brand name companies.

        Cadbury -- the yanks

        Boots -- the Italians

        Norwich Union -- the French

        Jaguar -- the Indians

        ARM -- the Japanese

        You were sold down the river long ago.

        1. Yes Me Silver badge
          Flame

          Re: != Brexit dodging

          You were sold down the river long ago.

          No, we simply chose to be part of the world economy, and to encourage direct foreign investment, which is essential when running a permanent trade deficit.

          Brexit of course would make the need for such investment even greater. Hopefully that won't happen, if the House of Commons comes to its senses and rebels against the small fraction of the Tory party that is current dictating.

        2. MOV r0,r0

          Re: != Brexit dodging

          Acorn were majority owned by an Italian company a full five years before ARM was spun out and then it was in partnership with two US firms. Shareholder capital being global doesn't stop a company being British.

        3. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: != Brexit dodging

          Try naming more than five wholly owned UK brand name companies.

          House of Windsor - German and Greek!

          I suppose a knighthood is out of the question now?

          1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

            Re: != Brexit dodging

            House of Windsor - German and Greek!

            And now (horror of horrors!) part American..

            (Said firmly tongue-in-cheek - I think an expansion of the Royals outside their traditional Home Counties bloodline is a Good Thing)

        4. David 164 Bronze badge

          Re: != Brexit dodging

          JCB,

          Icelands,

          Dysons,

          Numatic International Ltd, who produce Henry

          Rolls Royce

          okay four of them are wholly british own, the last is mostly british own with the government holding a golden share, not that the current useless twats would know what to do with it.

      3. Ken 16 Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: != Brexit dodging

        I would further encourage those companies to replace UK tech staff with Irish ones and to pay them a bonus for their freedom to follow the work across borders and fluency in English.

    2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: != Brexit dodging

      How many times is this going to work though?

      If there are security concerns about having a non-eu partner in your critical infrastructure how does having a lawyers office in Dublin help?

      Can you imagine the army allowing Huawei to build all its IT infrastructure so long as they got a PO box in Bogner?

      1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

        Re: != Brexit dodging

        army build all its IT infrastructure so long as they got a PO box in Bogner

        Well, if it is OK for a Chinese company to build NUCLEAR REACTORS...

        1. ToddRundgrensUtopia

          Re: != Brexit dodging

          Could it be because the EU commission are spiteful gits and don't care what happens as long as the Grand Project is maintained. Why anyone would wish to rejoin such a sham I will never know.

      2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        Unhappy

        "Can you imagine..allowing Huawei to build..IT infrastructure..as they got a PO box in Bogner?"

        Yes actually I can.

        Well the MoD let BAe have damm near every major contract and their HO is in the US.

        But they are a "National Champion."

        Of which country?

        1. ToddRundgrensUtopia

          Re: "Can you imagine..allowing Huawei to build..IT infrastructure..as they got a PO box in Bogner?"

          Correct the MOD are the dumbest of the dumb, ...every time

      3. Milton Silver badge

        Re: != Brexit dodging

        "Can you imagine the army allowing Huawei to build all its IT infrastructure so long as they got a PO box in Bogner?"

        No, but then until it happened I couldn't imagine a right-wing Tory Chancellor actively seeking involvement in a new British nuclear power station (as nationally vital and strategic a high-tech asset as it is possible to imagine) by a demonstrably theft- and espionage-prone, murderously authoritarian, hostile communist China on the one hand and a nationalised foreign energy company on the other (France's EDF). Nor that said practitioner of cruel, appallingly damaging austerity would condone said power station charging eyewateringly high prices for its electricity (that may not ultimately even be needed).

        Gidiot Osborne's Hinkley C fiasco is hard to categorise neatly. Monumental hypocrisy? Greed? Political stupidity? Palpably ridiculous naivety?

        Or does such a deal exceed even those common descriptors of a Tory Gidiot effort and fall into "If anyone else did this, it would count as treason"?

        Contrast the shocking foolishness of Hinkley against the raging fuss about Huawei ... it's hard not to conclude that many politicians are utter, hopeless imbeciles.

        1. ToddRundgrensUtopia

          Re: != Brexit dodging

          "it's hard not to conclude that many politicians are utter, hopeless imbeciles."

          It's not hard at all.

      4. David 164 Bronze badge

        Re: != Brexit dodging

        The work will be carried out by German engineers. No doubt they will have to erect firewalls between its British subsidary and it german subsidiary. Pretty how BAE Systems have to run, where BAE System in the UK can't even know what projects some of its USA divisions are working on and presumably vise versa.

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: != Brexit dodging

      "But so long as we can protect the fishing industry"

      It depends on which bit of the fishing industry. Some catches have a better market in some EU countries than in the UK.

      1. H in The Hague Silver badge

        Re: != Brexit dodging

        "It depends on which bit of the fishing industry. Some catches have a better market in some EU countries than in the UK."

        https://cornwallreports.co.uk/lords-warn-of-brexits-threats-and-opportunities-for-cornwalls-fishing-fleet/

        "... But the biggest market for Cornish fishermen is the European Union, with nearly 80% of all catch exported."

        And the British-flagged trawlers which land their catch at Scheveningen (harbour on the edge of The Hague) are going to be stuffed too :(

        1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          Re: != Brexit dodging

          But the biggest market for Cornish fishermen is the European Union

          And the ones I've seen quoted are hoping that fishing quotas will be removed post-Brexit.

          Newsflash - The won't. Otherwise, in ten years time, we won't have any fish left. The UK is going to have to co-operate with the EU on fishing - otherwise we'll be back in the pre-quota world where fishing catches were getting smaller and smaller because all the pre-breeding stock is being caught and eaten.

          In short - the sea doesn't care about borders - and neither do fish.

          1. ToddRundgrensUtopia

            Re: != Brexit dodging

            Demersal fish aren't like pelagic species, they don't swim hundreds of miles per day, they stay at the bottom looking for worms

    4. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Re: != Brexit dodging

      infighting withing the Tory party has inflicted on the nation

      And Labour isn't much better - since quite a few of their MP's are from areas that voted Leave, they don't have the bottle to stand up and be counted.

      Corbyn would generate a lot of votes in currently-Tory area that voted Remain by calling for either an end to Brexit or a Peoples Vote.

    5. codejunky Silver badge

      Re: != Brexit dodging

      @Snar

      "Let's hope we get a Peoples Vote and the ability to get out of this dogs dinner that infighting withing the Tory party has inflicted on the nation."

      Guessing last time was dogs and cats? So far we had 2 general elections and 1 referendum to get change, but remainers want yet another vote because they lost. Seriously do schools not teach kids about democracy any more?

    6. ToddRundgrensUtopia

      Re: != Brexit dodging

      Peoples Vote, oh dear. If you believe in democracy it's a price worth paying and if you don't keep paying JC Drunker and friends and asking for referenda until you get the answer that you and Tony Blair want.

  3. TonyJ Silver badge

    "...Let's hope we get a Peoples Vote and the ability to get out of this dogs dinner that infighting withing the Tory party has inflicted on the nation..."

    Yeah all that bollocks about a second vote letting down the public...how about acknowledging that sheer amount of bollocks and lying that went off before - and has gone on since - the vote?

    Maybe now people can see the kind of shit pie they are about to eat, they might have a different perspective?

    I'm all for honouring a vote and it's fair to say that in the run up to any kind of major election etc, there's always a large amount of fact manipulation, but...

    Oh well. :(

    1. James Anderson

      Re-Moaners ... You lost

      And you will lose a second referendum.

      If the actions of Barnier and Junker cannot convince you that the EU is a beurocracy interested only in expanding its own powers then a re-moaner you will remain.

      But for the majority of the population they will only reinforce the conviction that we should leave the sorry mess.

      Oh and if there is another vote will the remain side find anything positive to say about the EU? 'Cos last time they could only come up with scare stories about how we couldn't manage on our own.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Where's my unicorn?

        @James Anderson

        Можете ли вы проверить дату доставки моего единорога, товарищ?

      2. tiggity Silver badge

        Re: Re-Moaners ... You lost

        The actions of the EU have shown their politicians can effortlessly wipe the floor with ours (no surprise there, my cats could).

        The Mayhem gang could not organise the proverbial in a brewery, so the idea of them in full control without EU rules is a bit worrying.

        I doubt it will be good for the low paid, many of whom voted Brexit, if we leave the EU expect lots of nice EU mandated employment rights to vanish in the name of being "more competitive" (ti.e. more sweatshop) though as the shopfloor suffer the C level monetary deals will keep inexorably rising

        1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          Re: Re-Moaners ... You lost

          no surprise there, my cats could

          If they could be bothered. That's what they have minoins^W humans for..

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Re-Moaners ... You lost

        <quote>And you will lose a second referendum.</quote>

        Let's have it then.

      4. Santa from Exeter

        Re: Re-Moaners ... You lost

        Yet more BeLeaver rubbish.

        If the actions of Rees-Mogg, Johnson et al can't convince you that the Leave campaighn was based on lies, damn lies and absolutely no statistics you are blind.

        If by 'the majority of the population' you actually mean the *minority* of the population who voted to leave in the first place and the minority of those who still want this, you may be correct.

        Oh, and if these's another referendum will the leavers find anything true to say about what would happen if we leave? The supposed 'scare stories' were mainly predictions about what would happen *when* we left, an important distiction that the leavers blatantly ignore with their 'See it hasn't happened so it all a fear campaign' mantra.

        We are already seeing shortfalls in funding in a number of ares where companies, universities etc. can't bid for funding or to be part of a joint project which extends beyond March. Exactly where do you see this extra funding coming from if we do leave? Pretty sure it isn't going to be coming from any British government.

      5. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        FAIL

        Re: Re-Moaners ... You lost

        by 13/25s of the 72% of possible voters

        Many of the rest of whom (I suspect) would have voted Remain but thought the vote was a colossal waste of their time since only a small group of nutters would think leaving the EU was a good idea.

        And in which the Leave campaigners told each different group of potential voters exactly what they wanted to hear, wheather it was true or not.

        Obviously they stay at homes were wrong. OTOH with a million UK people having died in the meantime and everyone (that is everyone who's not a delusional idiot) having a much clearer idea of the impending s**tstorm (starting with the delays to the 110000 trucks a day going through Calais/dover) Brexit will cause I wonder how many will still be thinking "Brexit Uber alles" ?

    2. John Smith 19 Gold badge

      "how about acknowledging that sheer amount of bollocks and lying that went off before"

      Starting with Dominic Cummings use of stolen Facebook data (through a third party analytics company) to send tailored lies ads to about 3 million clueless banjos disaffected social media products users that

      a) All their dreams would come true if they just voted Leave

      b) Their worst nightmares would come true if the UK remained in the UK. Like the whole population of Turkey would come to the UK. (No doubt led by "Boris the Turk" Johnson)

      And wheather or not those statements were true (or if they were diametrically opposite in some cases) he did not give a f**k about.

  4. Pen-y-gors Silver badge

    Why Dublin?

    If they already have offices in the UK and Germany, who not move head office to Germany rather than a new site in Dublin?

    1. Simon Ward

      Re: Why Dublin?

      I suspect that it's probably to do with a more, ahem, 'favourable' tax status ...

      Cynic? Moi?

      1. I Am Spartacus
        Pint

        Re: Why Dublin?

        The Guiness is better in Dublin.

        1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          Re: Why Dublin?

          The Guiness is better in Dublin

          Not in my experience - it makes me vomit there too.. (as do most bitters and some stouts)

    2. disgustedoftunbridgewells Silver badge

      Re: Why Dublin?

      Presumably because it's a 30 minute flight from where their actual offices are.

      1. Gordon 10 Silver badge

        Re: Why Dublin?

        and easier for their team who nich sprechen Deutsche.

        1. Flywheel Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: Why Dublin?

          Tá mo shreabhadh móra lán de eascanna - they'll be fine with Gaelic, really...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Why Dublin?

            > Tá mo shreabhadh móra lán de eascanna - they'll be fine with Gaelic, really...

            No need. No one in Dublin speaks Irish. Never did. Like all cities in Ireland it started off speaking Old Norse then progressed to English - which it has spoken ever since.

            One thing that has not changed in Dublin over the decades. In my case six by this stage. You hear Irish spoken in a normal day to day conversation about once or twice a *decade*. The rest is cupla focal lip service by those dreaded dreary bores - the gaelgoires.

            In any week wandering around Dublin you will hear at least twenty to thirty languages spoken (not by tourists). Not one will be Gaeilge.

            So no need to think of taking any of the Gael Linn classes. Dont need them. And anyway, the only people you could talk to are people speaking an ugly language in a bad accent. Now gaeltacht Irish, the real language, that's a very different subject. A truly beautiful sounding language and very nice unassuming people. But as there is only about 40,000 of them left you will have to look long and hard to find any.

            1. Teiwaz Silver badge

              Re: Why Dublin?

              In any week wandering around Dublin you will hear at least twenty to thirty languages spoken (not by tourists). Not one will be Gaeilge.

              Possibly rare case then, of that Aer Lingus Dublin to Bologna flight I once caught where the safety message was in English and Gaelic only - no Italian, despite hearing conversational italian spoken on board from passengers.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Why Dublin?

                > n any week wandering around Dublin you will hear at least twenty to thirty languages spoken (not by tourists). Not one will be Gaeilge.

                Possibly rare case then, of that Aer Lingus Dublin to Bologna flight I once caught where the safety message was in English and Gaelic only - no Italian, despite hearing conversational italian spoken on board from passengers.

                <

                That was in "School Irish" / gaelgoire Irish. By someone with an atrocious non native accent. A classic example of cupla focail Irish. The speaker probably got an A in Leaving Cert Irish or went to a gaelscoil so thinks they are a native Irish speaker. They are nt. Once knew someone who grew up in a gaeltacht, a native speaker, who on starting an undergrad degree in Irish had to learn to write and speak "official" Irish. Quiet a different language. The nearest equivalence in English I can think of as to stiltedness and awkwardness of the official standard Irish language is probably Indian Civil Service English or Japanese High School English. People who get perfect scores in both exams are usually almost unintelligible to native speakers although what they write makes sense, to some degree or other.

                As I said its a joy to listen to native gaelteach Irish but its like fingernails on a blackboard to have to listen to gaelgoire Irish. A few hours of watching to TnaG where its wall to wall gaelgoire / gaelscoile people then a few hours listening to RnaG where its much more actual native speakers from gaeltachts will illustrate the huge difference between the two languages.

                As for actual usage. Its about 1% native daily use. Maybe another 1%/2% gaelgoire usage. And maybe 10% of the rest have any kind of functional fluency. Despite 12 years of compulsory Irish at school and the outlandish claims people make in the census returns.

                So an even bigger fiasco than Compulsory Swedish in Finland.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Why Dublin?

              <quote>Now gaeltacht Irish, the real language, that's a very different subject. A truly beautiful sounding language and very nice unassuming people. But as there is only about 40,000 of them left you will have to look long and hard to find any.</quote>

              I know a few. But then I'm in North London.

              1. werdsmith Silver badge

                Re: Why Dublin?

                It's spoken plenty down the country. My nephews attend an Irish language only meanscoil and its not even West Ireland, it's in Wexford.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Why Dublin?

                  Re: Why Dublin?

                  > It's spoken plenty down the country. My nephews attend an Irish language only meanscoil and its not even West Ireland, it's in Wexford.

                  <

                  I think you mean gaelscoil. Lots of those about but thats still gaelgoire Irish. There have always been Irish only schools for the kids of civil service aspiring middle class. The Irish language was the way all those West Brits were removed from the Civil Service in the first few decades of the state.

                  Plus then there is the whole middle class gaelgoire we dont want our kids in classes full of working class foreigners kids element to the current gaelscoile exercise which we wont mention. In Ireland the gaelgoire mindset has always been associated with the Irish middle class equivalent of the English Daily Mail middle class type. Enough said.

                  And just like the English equivalent just as easy to dislike in person as in the abstract.

          2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

            Re: Why Dublin?

            Tá mo shreabhadh móra lán de eascanna

            Chan eil fios agam..

            (Sadly, I don't know any Manx Gaelg - only Gaidhlig)

          3. Ken 16 Silver badge

            Re: Why Dublin?

            Gaelic is spoken in Scotland, currently part of the UK. Irish is spoken in Ireland (except Northern Ireland) but only when applying for a government job or asking to use the toilet.

        2. Lars Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: Why Dublin?

          The people I worked with IT in Germany all spoke acceptable English, that did not prevent me from improving my German, there is life after work too after all.

          1. werdsmith Silver badge

            Re: Why Dublin?

            The people I work with in Germany all speak better English than many native English speakers that I have heard.

    3. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Why Dublin?

      Taxes.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Why Dublin?

      "póg mo thóin"

      I learnt that in Dublin

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Why Dublin?

        Presumably it will become a lot more common in March when English stops being an official Eu language.

        1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          Re: Why Dublin?

          English stops being an official Eu language

          It won't - because English is an official language in several EU countries..

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: Why Dublin?

            >It won't - because English is an official language in several EU countries..

            But only the UK selected it as its official language.

            Ireland, for entirely non-political reasons, claimed Gaelic as its official language for the Eu.

            But I'm sure France will support everyone just speaking English.

            1. H in The Hague Silver badge

              Re: Why Dublin?

              "But only the UK selected it as its official language."

              I actually went to a talk about language and the EU a while ago. A retired EU translator explained that the status of English as an official EU language is actually established by one or two treaties, so not dependent on the UK being a member state. Hence English can continue as the lingua franca of the EU, having replaced French in that role some time ago.

        2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

          Re: Why Dublin?

          Presumably it will become a lot more common in March when English stops being an official Eu language.

          First it cannot. Official != procedural. Procedural is English, French or German. Official is any of the official languages of the Eu. English not being official is not happening regardless how much French would love that. It can't. English is one of the two official languages of 2 Eu countries - Ireland and Malta and while it is not an official language in Cyprus it is effectively one (though Russian is on its way to displace it). So no way in hell it can stop being an official language.

          Second, Eastern Europe could not give flying f**k about French delusions and all of it continues to insist on English as an procedural language. They are the ones that killed all attempts by France to raise that idea and they will do it again and again and again.

    5. David 164 Bronze badge

      Re: Why Dublin?

      Corporation tax is lower in Ireland than Germany.

  5. Dan 55 Silver badge

    Meanwhile Mayhem in still playing chicken with the British economy

    The problem is once companies like these leave, there's no real reason for them to come back.

    1. disgustedoftunbridgewells Silver badge

      Re: Meanwhile Mayhem in still playing chicken with the British economy

      They haven't left. They've paid a lawyer a small fee to be their registered office.

      1. FrogsAndChips Bronze badge

        Re: they haven't left

        But the jobs have gone to Germany.

    2. Rich 11 Silver badge

      Re: Meanwhile Mayhem in still playing chicken with the British economy

      Oh, don't worry! They'll come back after Brexit. Once the Tories have finished turning the UK into an offshore tax haven and won the race to the bottom, companies will flood back in, all anxious to take advantage of our liberal tax regime. OK, so admittedly the overall tax income won't be anything like it is at present and nothing like enough to pay for NHS beds or pencils in schools, but who cares? Only the little people will be affected, right? It's not like the cost of a place at Eton will go up by much.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: Meanwhile Mayhem in still playing chicken with the British economy

        yeh dem tories all sell the nhs hospitals 2 dere mates so dey can use the dosh 2 get the motes round der houses cleaned out. innit

    3. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      Re: Meanwhile Mayhem in still playing chicken with the British economy

      I have a tiny smidgeon of sympathy for May - she's pretty much in an impossible situation wherre anything she does is pretty much going to be blocked by one segment of Parliament or other..

      Then I remember that she got herself into this situation by calling a snap election that she didn't need to and eroding her majority to the extent that she needed to be propped up by buying support from a bunch of throwbacks from Norn Iron.

      Bed <--> Lie.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: Meanwhile Mayhem in still playing chicken with the British economy

        Did you see the May/Tory campaign in that snap election? It could not have been much worse, I'm convinced that they tried to deliberately lose it so they could hand the poison challice of brexit over to Labour.

        Unfortunately for the tories, Labour put up Corbyn as a PM candidate so their ruse failed.

      2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

        Re: Meanwhile Mayhem in still playing chicken with the British economy

        I have a tiny smidgeon of sympathy for May - she's pretty much in an impossible situation

        No sympathy whatsoever.

        She should have asked the parliament "what to be negotiated" and forced a vote on the model first. Then she should have forced a vote on red lines regarding what would be the "settlement" method and the higher authority to resolve conflicts. She should have invoked article 50 only after that.

        What she did instead is to deliberately remove any option of anyone deciding anything but her and ran down the clock to do so. What she is doing is manoeuvres to achieve solely her goals and ensure that nobody except her gets a say. She would love to do that directly but that misfired. Remember "Teresa May and the Conservative Party" posters? As a result she is having it "her way" by wiggling about.

  6. John Mangan

    Sadly with May running the clock down...

    .. there is unlikely to be time to have a second referendum.

    Getting an extension to Article 50 requires the agreement of all EU27 but I have no sense what the mood in Europe would be in that case.

    It also seems impossible that a Norway+ or any other such unicorn could be agreed before the clock runs out.

    On the upside withdrawing Article 50 only requires for 'us' to make that choice. Then all we would need to deal with is the serious civil unrest that I suspect would arise from that.

    I think we are sh#t out of 'good' options. (I am, from personal preference, advice of economists and a basic understanding of maths excluding 'no deal' from the 'good options' pile).

    1. DJO Silver badge

      Re: Sadly with May running the clock down...

      Then all we would need to deal with is the serious civil unrest that I suspect would arise from that.

      So what you are saying is national policy should be driven by threats from violent far-right thugs?

      Surely that is diametrically opposed to everything British democracy is supposed to stand for, we're supposed to stand up to bullies not hide in the corner.

      On the Galileo issue, in the planning stages one country was adamant that non-EU countries should not have access to the signals or be allowed to tender for any related work - See if you can guess which country that was.

      1. Lars Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Sadly with May running the clock down...

        "or be allowed to tender for any related work - See if you can guess which country that was.".

        Don't make too much out of that, it was probably a unanimous decision, and why not, it's a project financed by the EU and member states. To understand it better you have to read about ESA too. There are outside members too like Switzerland and Canada with their own agreements.

        I am not sure what you mean with the "signals", the 1cm signal is commercially available while the Wiki has this on the UK post brexit "In March 2018, the European Commission announced that the United Kingdom may be excluded from parts of the project (especially relating to the secured service PRS) ".

      2. john.w

        Re: Sadly with May running the clock down...

        But surely the fundamental problem with this negotiation has been the threat of violence if any physical monitoring of the Eire/NI border is deemed necessary to meet WTO rules?

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Sadly with May running the clock down...

          "But surely the fundamental problem with this negotiation has been the threat of violence if any physical monitoring of the Eire/NI border is deemed necessary to meet WTO rules?"

          It's more basic than that. There was no way to do this without either breaking the Good Friday agreement or else damaging the Union that the Conservative and Unionist Party stands for.

          1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

            Re: Sadly with May running the clock down...

            There was no way to do this without either breaking the Good Friday agreement or else damaging the Union that the Conservative and Unionist Party stands for

            And this is the fundamental issue for the Tory Party - in order to kowtow to the fanatical Brexiteers (most of whom appear to be stuck in the 17th - or at best the 18th - centuries) they now have to cause a rupture of the Union - one of the fundamental things their party stands for.

            And let's face it, post-Brexit, the liklihood of Scotland voting for independance goes up markedly. Especially as one of the critical reasons for the sececcionists losting the vote last time was that they wouldn't be part of the EU if they left the UK..

      3. John Mangan

        Re: Sadly with May running the clock down...

        @DJO - No, I don't think the civil unrest will just be 'violent far-right thugs'.

        I've spoken to a lot of leavers over the last two years. Yes, there are some blinkered "La-La I can't hear you, Project Fear. sovereignty above all else" types who can't or won't engage with any rational discussion but there are many who have more complex reasons that this for wanting to leave and they will feel that they have been ignored and cheated - and to an extent they would be right. There were reprted to be 700,000 attendees to the "People's March". I suspect that the resentment of a non-Brexit could bring even more out.

        Polls have shown that there hasn't been a large shift in the voters on the Remain or Leave side since the referendum. The only significant shift has been the "Don't Knows" who have moved more strongly towards Remain than Leave but it still isn't clear that that would change the result if there was a "People's Vote".

        That's why I opined that there were no 'good' options left. And as somebody else commented "This is a Critical Defect". Amen.

        1. sandman

          Re: Sadly with May running the clock down...

          Outside Context Problem.

          1. Martin an gof Silver badge

            Re: Sadly with May running the clock down...

            Outside Context Problem.

            Actually, I'm not sure it is. The mess we are currently in was eminently predictable the minute Cameron had the daft idea that he could solve 50+ years of Tory infighting by holding a national referendum. Whichever way the vote had gone, and (I believe) even if the majority had been significantly higher, there would still be a large, vociferous minority who would not be happy and would keep kicking up the same sort of fuss as they have been doing since the end of WWII.

            M.

    2. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Sadly with May running the clock down...

      I think we are sh#t out of 'good' options.

      We were from the moment there was intent to hold the referendum in a nation which was equally split between remaining and leaving. And an entire campaign designed to polarise and harden divisions set our future in stone.

      Remainers could probably have compromised on a Norway option, out but still sort of in. As Farage said; would that really be so bad?

      But then the leave zealots played the bait and switch card and said that was never on the table, that only the hardest of no deal brexits would do. And then (laughingly now) they called everyone who tried to stop the Maybot pushing her hijacking of brexit through as traitors and enemies of the people.

      Whatever happens now half the country will be pissed with it. We're fucked. It's a critical defect and there is no fix.

      1. adam 40
        Go

        Re: Sadly with May running the clock down...

        The solution to that seems quite obvious. Split the country down the middle north to south. One side can stay in (let's call it the United Kingdowm of Europe), the other side leave (United Kingdom Independent Party-On). People who REALLY want to stay in can swap houses/jobs/whatever with Brexiteers on the other side.

        In Scotland the line can be more 60/40 according to how the vote went.

        i will be investing in Pickfords.

        1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Sadly with May running the clock down...

          "Split the country down the middle north to south."

          This is no better than blaming it on the old. Some of us are in the north and old and in possession of our marbles.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Sadly with May running the clock down...

        "Whatever happens now half the country will be pissed with it. We're fucked. It's a critical defect and there is no fix."

        Your last sentence explains why it'll be a lot more than half the country when the consequences finally becomes evident.

      3. John Mangan

        Re: Sadly with May running the clock down...

        @Jason Bloomberg. I agree and two years+ of 'negotiation' has hardened the positions further.

        It's grim, really grim.

    3. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: Sadly with May running the clock down...

      I think we are sh#t out of 'good' options.

      This is exactly "Running Down The Clock".

      I find it quite hilarious that the Parliament is discussing now what the possible models should be and shouldn't there be a vote for each of them. Where were they before Article 50 was enabled? Under which rock?

      In fact, the fact that this was never done makes all the previous statements about the ECHR by Mrs May come to my head. The only way she can get any of her anti-ECHR dreams is to actually end up in a total No-Deal position, because they will be included into anything else. It looks like she will get exactly what she wanted and she managed to move the clock dial one more time further towards the point of no return.

      Oh well, time to see how the building works on my "retreat positions" in Europe are doing. They should be completed by March (fingers crossed).

    4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Sadly with May running the clock down...

      "Then all we would need to deal with is the serious civil unrest that I suspect would arise from that."

      I doubt the civil unrest would be greater than that when people find out what find out just what they've had dumped on them on the basis of small majority in an advisory vote.

      1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        Unhappy

        "I doubt..civil unrest would be greater than..when people find out whatthey've had dumped on them"

        True.

        Let's be honest, when Brexit starts to bite some of those Banjoes are going to start looking for someone to blame when they realize how well they were played.

        Naturally these kwitters won't blame themselves for being too ignorant or too gullible to fall for this BS, even though many are.

        Sadly I fear the best option (them turning on their leaders and stringing a few up from various lamp posts around Westminster) is unlikely to happen. I'll leave others to nominate preferred candidates.

  7. The Nazz Silver badge

    Meanwhile Macron ...

    is making swimming lessons compulsory so that all the young unemployed can swim to Dublin for the jobs.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Merry Brexmas ...

    ... to one and all!

    Feel the crisp air of WINNING and the sweet smell of SOVEREIGNTY!

    1. Rich 11 Silver badge

      Re: Merry Brexmas ...

      Yeah, sovereignty. The right to vote for whether the economy will be badly fucked or merely trashed, and the freedom to ignore consequences such as the sale of the NHS or the importation of hormone-stuffed beef grown in a pen. But at least Johnny Foreigner won't get to tell us whether we should go down the pan clockwise or anti-clockwise, and that's all that really matters.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: Merry Brexmas ...

        Sovereignty that we had all along anyway.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Merry Brexmas ...

          Sovereignty that we had all along anyway.

          But now in Rees-Mogg land we get to replace EU rules with US rules. So we can accept the US red line for a trade deal, and accept all Monsanto's latest creations 'cos to do otherwise is illegal restraint of trade.

          1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

            Re: Merry Brexmas ...

            But now in Rees-Mogg land we get to replace EU rules with US rules

            Especially the plutocracy. Rees-Mogg wants to be part of the new nobility..

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Merry Brexmas ...

              >Rees-Mogg wants to be part of the new nobility..

              One of the main drivers for the Brexit Elites (Farage, Banks et al) and also Trump was the percieved slight that they were not accepted by "the establishment" even though they put on the air of having LOADSAMONEY!!!

              Not realising the real reason people snub them is because they are ****ing douchebags.

        2. codejunky Silver badge

          Re: Merry Brexmas ...

          @werdsmith

          "Sovereignty that we had all along anyway."

          Do people still trot out this rubbish? The idea we had sovereignty anyway didnt stand long once fact was applied and those making the claims started conceding we have sovereignty except for....

          I thought that claim was now taken about as seriously as a bad joke.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Merry Brexmas ...

            Do people still trot out this rubbish?

            They sure do. At least the ECJ did when they ruled that we can unilaterally revoke Article 50. Sounds pretty sovereign to me.

            If you want a bad joke, meanwhile, the 'horse with the long face' one always raises a few laughs.

            1. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: Merry Brexmas ...

              @AC

              "They sure do. At least the ECJ did when they ruled that we can unilaterally revoke Article 50. Sounds pretty sovereign to me."

              Really! Club that is desperate for us not to leave working with the remainer MP here draw up a deal nobody wants (remain or leave) and so the only other option is hard brexit. Suddenly the club is happy with us just revoking our statement of leaving. Oh how generous. If that is the best example of sovereignty then it is still a bad joke.

      2. Clunking Fist Bronze badge

        Re: Merry Brexmas ...

        "Yeah, sovereignty. The right to vote for whether the economy will be badly fucked or merely trashed, "

        Haha, suck it up Englanders: you'll be up shit creek, with high unemployment, a fleeing populace and civil unrest like third-world, shit-hole countries under WTO rules like... USA, Australia, Canada, New Zealand.

        Seriously: you are toast. You have so much in common, from language, and in most cases, Westminster parliamentary democracy. Haha. When you sink below the waves of your own tears, you'll be forgotten, just like those other countries listed above that no one ever visits, trades with, try to emigrate to or even thinks about.

        eye-roll

        1. sandman

          Re: Merry Brexmas ...

          "Haha, suck it up Englanders: you'll be up shit creek, with high unemployment, a fleeing populace and civil unrest like third-world, shit-hole countries under WTO rules like... USA, Australia, Canada, New Zealand."

          WTO - ha, ha, ha. More like NAFTA, CETA, ANZCERTA and TPP.

          Countries sign trade agreements for a reason.

          1. Clunking Fist Bronze badge

            Re: Merry Brexmas ...

            "More like NAFTA, CETA, ANZCERTA and TPP"

            Yes yes yes, if you want to be technically correct: those countries are free to sign whatever agreements they want to due to ... sovereignty.

            All those countries are lining up to sign deals with the UK. So widdle ol' Britain (only 5 or 6 in the GDP stakes) will soon have a bunch of friends again in the new school.

    2. Ken 16 Silver badge
      Trollface

      SOVEREIGNTY?

      I was wondering what that smell from Westminster was

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    OMG

    Brexit isn't the end of the world after all. What are we going to do now?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: OMG

      Issue blue passports and build more port container capacity. And switch to Glonass.

      102 day is plenty of time to sort everything out.

      Remember Dunkirk! The Blitz! Suez!

      All together now!

      ♪♫♬ Rule Britannia! Britannia ....

      1. arctic_haze Silver badge

        Re: OMG

        Switch to Glonass? What next? Joining the Commonwealth of Independent States?

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Independent_States

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: OMG

        ♪♫♬ Rule Britannia! Britannia ....

        Sigh. There's a very improtant comma in that line, it's an exhortation, not a boast:

        Rule, Britannia!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: OMG

          "Sigh. There's a very improtant comma in that ine”

          Really? You're going to pull me up on punctuation whilst posting that typo?!

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "[...] the message from academics and industry alike has been stark – if Blighty isn't in the club, it can't eat from the club's trough."

    Apparently it was the UK government that originally insisted on that exclusion clause.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Apparently it was the UK"

      It's these little gems that really make Brexit hilarious. Especially when the gammons kick off about them.

      1. codejunky Silver badge

        @AC

        "It's these little gems that really make Brexit hilarious. Especially when the gammons kick off about them."

        Out of interest if red in the face leavers are gammons then where does that put remainers. Whenever they are marching or putting on their EU patriotic flag underwear they seem to be painted blue. Maybe we should start calling them smurfs.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: @AC

          You should go ahead and call them what you like. But they aren't as amusing as a mouth-foaming Express reader ENRAGED by the UK popping-a-cap in its own ass.

        2. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Unhappy

          "Maybe we should start calling them smurfs."

          In 5 years time I think the term for people who voted Remain will be "Realists."

          While the term for those who voted Leave will remain "Banjos" (Played like one at an Ozark hoedown) or "Delusional f**kwits," for those who played themselves.

  11. Jamie Jones Silver badge
    Meh

    Light the blue touchpaper....

    El Reg know exactly what sort of response these articles will bring!

    I bet they stocked up on popcorn! :-)

    As for me? Every brexit story is yet more expected bad news, and still the morons think it's great so that mogg etc can get richer...

    Not really much else to say :-(

    1. Clunking Fist Bronze badge

      Re: Light the blue touchpaper....

      I certainly stocked up on popcorn. But after seeing the tremendous reaction from Hilarity supporters after the Trump win, I had none left.

  12. pcolamar

    Only UK employees will bear a loss

    Only UK employees will be out of ESA and Galileo projects not the " Brits shareholders of EU based companies"that deal with Galileo contracts .

    EU-Secrete clearance (like UK DV) will not be granted to UK citizens any longer but this does not impact the revenue of "UK shareholders of EU based companies".

    Of course the real work will be done by the EU based (and EU citizen) employees so once again the UK "low paid' ( compared to the reach UK company owners) will feel the Brexit pain.

    Wasn't this explained at Brexit campaign time ? ( irony ahead)

    It is called "delocalization" :-)

    1. pcolamar

      (update - it is already happening) Re: Only UK employees will bear a loss

      And was I wrong !

      "UK aerospace firms apply for EU regulation before no-deal Brexit " - The Guardian

      https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/17/uk-aerospace-firms-apply-for-eu-regulation-ahead-of-no-deal-brexit

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    As BREXIT day approaches

    The schadenfreude grows to a spine tingling sensation.

    Popcorn...

    1. Ken 16 Silver badge
      Happy

      "schadenfreude"

      is a much nicer word than Brexit isn't it? If you're going to make up a word for once very specific circumstance, it needs to roll off the tongue. What good will the word Brexit be in 50 years time?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: As BREXIT day approaches

      Will the collapse be televised?

      If so, how long will the TV stations stay on air?

  14. codejunky Silver badge

    Good for them

    "The 650-head company has offices in the UK and Germany and, presumably, its name on a plaque stuck to a door somewhere in Dublin."

    Sounds about right. As others point out it already they have an office in Germany and so could put a plaque there but instead are putting one in Dublin. So very little changes but they get around the obstacles and continue as before.

    How some people take this as some big win for their cause I have no idea. But good news for SCISYS and its employees.

    1. Ken 16 Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Good for them

      Given Dublin property prices, they'll be paying full wack for the plaque.

  15. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    "Given Dublin property prices, they'll be paying full wack for the plaque."

    Boom times for Somerset Asset Management then.

    Yeay.

  16. Libertarian Voice

    No Access to Galileo is a win

    Galileo is all about road user charging and spying on people, particularly in their cars. If we have no access to it whatsoever than I really cannot see how that would be a bad thing; It may not stop the inevitable greedy government from coming up with new and innovative ways to shaft drivers, but it may hold them back a bit.

    If one little company moves out of the UK then I can live with it while thinking of all the money I am saving by not paying for every mile I drive for a little longer.

  17. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Coat

    I think I now see what the "Brexit dividend" is

    It'll be in the £Bn alright

    But it'll have a minus sign in front of it.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Biting the hand that feeds IT © 1998–2019