back to article Taylor's gonna spy, spy, spy, spy, spy... fans can't shake cam off, shake cam off

Spotify's one-time nemesis Taylor Swift has reportedly used controversial facial recognition tech on fans while they've been getting down to her sick beats. According to Rolling Stone, the Rose Bowl venue in California rolled out the tech at her 18 May concert, in a bid to spot anyone on Tay Tay's long list of stalkers. In …

  1. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

    Well that's just fucking creepy, especially considering the age demographic of a large chunk of her fanbase.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I completely agree.

      Why the haven't already been picked up by the authorities for re-education to try and make them useful members of society while they are still young enough to re-educate is beyond me.

      1. Alistair Silver badge
        Windows

        @AC re: re-education:

        are you referring to the stalker fans, the fans in general, or Taylor and her crew?

    2. Tikimon Silver badge
      Facepalm

      The dawn of digital "checkpoints" for government control

      As noted, recognition tech is being taken up rapidly. It's only a matter of time before the government demands access to those scanners and data. ALL of them. Like Google, the spymasters believe its their right to know everything about everyone and store it forever. Soon facial recognition will be installed at shopping malls, train stations, sports venues, public buildings, anywhere a thin claim for preventive security can be made. Desire to recognize customers (for "rewards" of course, lol) will lead to most retail using it as well.

      Think CCTV is invasive? It's usually mounted kinda high up, often providing imagery that lacks enough detail to ID people. Facial recognition will be at eye level and close, taking excellent shots of our faces. CCTV has a vague "watch for trouble" mission. Facial recognition has ONE purpose, to record and if possible identify everyone who passes it.

      If you combine spying through your phone, home-automation setup, and public face recognition, you already have the effective elements of the Telescreen from "1984". With access to all these systems, the spymasters will watch and listen to us everywhere we go. It's worse actually, because Orwell didn't imagine huge searchable databases to store and serve up all that info.

      All this tech was supposed to make our lives better, not bind us in digital shackles...

      1. Spazturtle Silver badge

        Re: The dawn of digital "checkpoints" for government control

        " It's only a matter of time before the government demands access to those scanners and data. "

        They will say they need access to check that companies are complying with data protection regulations. 'Thing of the children' and 'we need this access to stop terrorists' are getting a bit long in the tooth and they need a new excuse.

        1. The Nazz Silver badge

          Re: The dawn of digital "checkpoints" for government control

          re : think of the children, a tragic story :

          https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-46552455

          Meanwhile, in the real world, the UK police can't even police themselves adequately. Icebergs and tips thereof come to mind.

        2. iowe_iowe

          Re: The dawn of digital "checkpoints" for government control

          it's pretty likely they have these access mandates in place already: the US govt have long had legal recourse to access these data, using the "government note" legal device (we demand the right to slurp your data, and you're not allowed to tell the public about our arrangement). We (the UK) share data with our US counterparts and in fact are very good at innovation in mass-data gathering and processing.

          This may or may not have changed since Snowden alerted us to this sort of activitiy - good luck making sense of the legislation.

          <I'm just heading off to spend Christmas in the bunker>...

      2. JohnFen Silver badge

        Re: The dawn of digital "checkpoints" for government control

        "Soon facial recognition will be installed at shopping malls, train stations, sports venues, public buildings, anywhere a thin claim for preventive security can be made."

        Correct, if by "soon" you mean "already":

        1. Version 1.0 Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: The dawn of digital "checkpoints" for government control

          if by "soon" you mean "already" ....

          These stories always amuse me, the comments section goes bananas in shock but the fact is, this has been going on for years and they've only just noticed. We live in this world:

          Bought a ticket for the concert on-line? They have your details and know who you are.

          Did you tweet that you are going to the concert? They have your details and know who you are.

          Do you have your phone with you? They have your details and know who you are.

          Did you drive to the concert and park locally? They have your details and know who you are.

          Did a friend post on FB that they were going with you? They have your details and know who you are.

          And you're worried that they took your photograph? Did you miss the novichok guys getting photographed everywhere?

          1. Teiwaz Silver badge

            Re: The dawn of digital "checkpoints" for government control

            the comments section goes bananas in shock

            I think you are confusing shock with exasperated impatient outrage.

            The kind of grumbling that eventually often rises to a roar, and on rare occasions results in a tidal wave sweeping across a country leaving a bloody legacy and an even dodgier authority steering.

      3. iowe_iowe

        Re: The dawn of digital "checkpoints" for government control

        I absolutely share your concerns. What's even more ironic is that we're choosing (and paying) to have these things in our house.

        With the government intelligence agencies' regulatory checks and balances being as clear as mud, and their relationships with the commercial data slurpers equally murky, the ignorance of the masses is depressing (my parents love these listening devices).

        Can't wait for the "googamabook 5000 - wireless brain shunt", for instant ability to order toilet paper.

    3. GnuTzu Bronze badge

      Creepy yes. To defend against creepy stalkers, they've become a whole new kind of creepy stalker. Oh wait, it's not that new is it; it's just automated now.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Creepy yes. To defend against creepy stalkers, they've become a whole new kind of creepy stalker. "

        LOL.

        In essence, Taylor Swift is stalking her fans.

        1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
          Black Helicopters

          Swiftly but surely

          @AC

          In essence, Taylor Swift is stalking her fans.

          ====================================

          SlowlySwiftly but surely I'm gonna wear you down

          SlowlySwiftly but surely I'm gonna bring you round

          To my way of thinking, my way of kissing, my way of lovin'

          SlowlySwiftly but surely, I'm gonna make you mine

          ====================================

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=327XB7_YzqQ

          Slowly But Surely lyrics © Warner/Chappell Music, Inc

          Songwriters: Benjamin Weisman/Sid Wayne

        2. P. Lee Silver badge

          > Taylor Swift is stalking her fans

          Raymond Stevens Did Nothing Wrong!

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PCbaGipDSU

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Creepy....

      yep. Now lets say this company takes those images and gives them over to say, facebook, who cross references them against ITS database, and they know who virtually everyone is that looked at that display.

      Lets be clear, people: THERE IS NO ANONYMOUS DATA ANYMORE. Facebook or Google can take virtually any information like this and match it to a person in seconds. Its what makes the slurp of "anonymous" health records or trying to give 23andMe an "anonymous" sample problematic. They can deanonymize so fast it will make your head spin. And once they have that data, it will never be deleted

  2. Spanners Silver badge

    "a lack of evidence that it works all that well"

    In fact, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

    If this sort of thing actually worked well, it would be worrying and in need of protests. With this level of reliability, it may be enough to keep Mr Javid happy but damage nothing but his budget.

    1. IsJustabloke Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: "a lack of evidence that it works all that well"

      "In fact, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary."

      So does that mean we shouldn't worry about it?

      Or perhaps we should get vocal about it now *before* it becomes usable because there's no way they'll give it up once it is.

      And you can be sure it will get better because all technology does.

      1. noboard
        Coat

        Re: "a lack of evidence that it works all that well"

        "And you can be sure it will get better because all technology does."

        Windows says hello

        1. IsJustabloke Silver badge
          Pint

          Re: "a lack of evidence that it works all that well"

          "Windows says hello"

          See icon for response...

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: "a lack of evidence that it works all that well"

      In fact, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

      The issue is that most people look at "success recognition rates". Everybody thinks of an AI instantly recognizing someone and making a decision. Sure the rates for that are not exactly stellar. That, however is NOT THE USE CASE.

      The use case is recognize ONCE and TRACK forward (realtime) and historically (through recordings). It also involves recognition of other characteristic treats, not just face. The way you walk for example.

      What is presently available is already pretty good at it and can do the job usually without a lot of operator assistance. There are also plenty of cameras in "useful places" - turnstiles, payment points, ticket/smartcard validators. Lock on. And track.

    3. TheVogon Silver badge

      Re: "a lack of evidence that it works all that well"

      "In fact, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary."

      Like what? There is overwhelming evidence that for instance casinos have successfully used such systems for many years.

      1. JohnFen Silver badge

        Re: "a lack of evidence that it works all that well"

        "There is overwhelming evidence that for instance casinos have successfully used such systems for many years."

        Casinos are a bad example, because the serious problem with face recognition is more tolerable there. The essential problem is this: if you want a high level of success in spotting people you are actively looking for, you're also going to get a high rate of false positives.

        In a setting like a casino, that's not a huge issue. In a public setting (particularly if it involves law enforcement), it's an enormous issue.

  3. Semtex451 Silver badge
    Windows

    Who's Taylor Swift?

    1. Killfalcon Silver badge
      Trollface

      IT security guru, on Twitter as @SwiftOnSecurity.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Who's Taylor Swift?

      I am to understand that she is a modern chanteuse who, in conjunction with her beat combo, has made a number gramophone recordings which have been very popular among the younger generation, thus earning her a place at the head of the hit parade.

      1. Semtex451 Silver badge
        Windows

        Righto Ta.

        I thought it might be a Professor of Astronomy or an efficient company that make suits, perhaps.

        1. robidy

          Ah, Taylor Swift....clothes make ready for Yoda.

      2. JohnFen Silver badge

        And here I thought it was someone who could sew quickly.

    3. The Nazz Silver badge

      Have a look on youtube for clips of a Rolling Stones tour wherein at each gig a guest singer appears on stage and joins in to sing, presumably live, a song or two.

      The one who can't sing and sounds utterly dreadful is the aforementioned Ms Swift.

      Fortunately, i've not been exposed to any other work of hers to know whether or not that is usually the case.

      Despite that, or maybe because of it, she has been and is very successful (by some measure) a la Ed Sheeran.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "The one who can't sing and sounds utterly dreadful is the aforementioned Ms Swift.

        Fortunately, i've not been exposed to any other work of hers to know whether or not that is usually the case."

        Invariably.

    4. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      Who? Read the article!

      In what appears to be a nightmare dressed like a daydream,

      Sounds like it sums up Ms Swift perfectly! Apparently she may also be doing cats in an attempt to break teh Interwebz..

    5. David 132 Silver badge
      Happy

      Semtex451 "Who's Taylor Swift?"

      A specialised member of the avian family, I believe. Nature has the bower bird, the carrion crow, the wandering albatross, and apparently now the tailor swift.

    6. Paul Herber

      Sounds like a bunch of Chartered Accountants or Solicitors!

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm not a fan of the surveilance state but I don't see a problem as long as the images are not being stored somewhere. If the cameras are scanning images and performing a check against a known database and discarding all the ones that don't match, that's fine with me.

    It's the CCTV cameras that record everything we do and keep it for a month that worry me.

    1. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

      True. My initial reaction was that it's creepy, but if there's no storage involved (and that's the important bit) it's just using technology to alleviate the burden of finding and employing security staff with a very good memory for faces.

    2. Flakk Silver badge

      I'm not a fan of the surveilance state but I don't see a problem as long as the images are not being stored somewhere.

      But that is the problem, isn't it? I've lost count of the number of times we were promised that our data would not be stored, and how many times those assurances were proven false. And those are only the instances of which we are aware.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Then you see the problem

      CCTV didn't record and keep images for months, and ever longer, some clips are now permanently stored.

      CCTV should have been highly regulated and outlawed in public areas decades ago, unless people think living in a surveillance state is the definition of the freedom and respect for individuals that allowed the West to prosper.

      But most citizens believe or accept that being under 24/7 surveillance will end all crime, even government corruption.

      That there is still crime and corruption, increasing corruption if anything, is not reported as part of the story. Neither have we been growing more confident of our democratic systems but pointing that out creates cognitive dissonance so best to just accept.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I see where you are coming from but this will be recorded and sold or passed to law enforcement etc..

      Ask yourself this, where is the only place at a concert where you can guarantee someone will pass? Where you scan your ticket, so now this tasty data not only has your face but also your identification linking person to mugshot. Also, who do you think supplied the mug shots to check them against? The police therefore I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted something in return for that favour.

      The only reason facial recognition is not more widespread is because of poor quality CCTV, when they catch up it will be a different matter.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        > Ask yourself this, where is the only place at a concert where you can guarantee someone will pass? Where you scan your ticket,

        Au contraire. Someone without a ticket, trying to sneak in, won't be sneaking in by showing a ticket.

        1. Teiwaz Silver badge

          > Ask yourself this, where is the only place at a concert where you can guarantee someone will pass? Where you scan your ticket,

          Au contraire. Someone without a ticket, trying to sneak in, won't be sneaking in by showing a ticket.

          Queuing up for the toilets would also be a good bet - ever been to concert where the beverages weren't watered down???

      2. Teiwaz Silver badge

        The police therefore I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted something in return for that favour.

        Well there's a sentiment the public could do without in it's law enforcement.

        'You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.', next will be the collecting of little favours in brown paper bags ever week and eventually Chief Constables will be granting favours with future reciprocals on their daughters wedding days.

    5. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

      RTFA

      "There is no detail of which company makes the kiosks, where the images are stored or how long they are kept for."

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      If you're worried by CCTV, don't shoplift.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        CCTV

        Yeah and if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

        Here we go, straight off the top of my head. Lets say there is a shoplifter who happens to be in the same location as me 12 times and shop lifts in my local store. They check stock see it's down and go to the CCTV facial recognition for all the people in those locations and in that store between the dates the stock has gone missing. Let's hypothetically add to this that I got a caution for shoplifting when a kid and lets also add that the real criminal wore a face mask on a few occasions. What do you think could happen? There is now evidence I committed a crime I didn't, not conclusive but enough to force a caution especially in this day and age.

        So no, I don't commit crime but I value my privacy and don't want it known where I am 24/7 especially if one day I decide to join a peaceful protest.

        1. Chairman of the Bored Silver badge

          Re: CCTV

          @AC, stupid question- in UK law is a caution in your record permanently?

          Of course once we get Chinese-style social credit scores it will probably be indelible. Oh, joy.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: CCTV

            "Of course once we get Chinese-style social credit scores it will probably be indelible. Oh, joy."

            With the Trump Administration proposing that immigration regulation be predicated in part on credit scores, that day seems closer than I would otherwise suppose.

          2. sed gawk

            Re: CCTV

            Interestingly a caution is not a conviction and as such was historically not subject to the rehabilitation of offenders act meaning that it didn't "age out". https://www.nacro.org.uk/resettlement-advice-service/support-for-individuals/disclosing-criminal-records/rehabilitation-offenders-act/

            This was changed a few years ago, so that the cautions are not required to be disclosed.

            But that is not the same as being "removed from criminal record", if you got caught and cautioned or convicted. That is entered in the PNC and there is no way of removing that information.

            HTH

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: CCTV

            @Chairman of the Bored

            I can confirm that cautions and any criminal records are never ever spent if you get pulled over by the police. They just use codes for them over the radio but it's pretty easy to work out what they are for from the age.

        2. Cynic_999 Silver badge

          Re: CCTV

          I have used this analogy before ...

          Imagine that all the CCTV cameras were to be replaced with large watchtowers. (Which would put at least one on almost every street corner in the average town). Atop each tower is a man in a black uniform and red armband, scanning the streets through a large pair of binoculars and writing his observations in a notebook, a telephone by his hand.

          How would that make you feel? Safer?

          CCTV is of course *exactly* the same as that scenario - except less obvious so you stop noticing them.

          1. Mark 85 Silver badge

            Re: CCTV

            Good analogy but eventually with time, the man in the tower will be ignored once the newness wears off. People might notice the town and be wary so at some point having the man in the tower becomes meaningless.

            1. Teiwaz Silver badge

              Re: CCTV

              Good analogy but eventually with time, the man in the tower will be ignored once the newness wears off. People might notice the town and be wary so at some point having the man in the tower becomes meaningless.

              Didn't happen in the border regions of Ireland in the 80's over border towers. Or the ones on top of flats in cities like Belfast.

              The resentment just continued to simmer and bubble.

          2. phuzz Silver badge

            Re: CCTV

            "Imagine that all the CCTV cameras were to be replaced with large watchtowers. [...] How would that make you feel? Safer?"

            To be honest, yes, that probably would make me feel safer. You'd get to know your local watchers, their memory would be fallible, they'd fall asleep sometimes, etc.

            A real human being in a guard tower would be less scary to me than cctv.

            1. JohnFen Silver badge

              Re: CCTV

              "To be honest, yes, that probably would make me feel safer"

              Not me. I'd feel exactly the same either way.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: CCTV

            Imagine that all the CCTV cameras were to be replaced with large watchtowers. (Which would put at least one on almost every street corner in the average town). Atop each tower is a man in a black uniform and red armband, scanning the streets through a large pair of binoculars and writing his observations in a notebook, a telephone by his hand.

            Indeed - watch towers and uniformed personnel are very obvious to the eye.

            That's why when Mass Observation started in the UK, information on peoples' behaviour, conversations, etc. was gathered covertly by observers.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        > If you're worried by CCTV, don't shoplift.

        What a good thing that, in your world, no one has episodes of mental illness, depression or other disorder that might manifest as shoplifting; who then go on to be cured and live normal, productive lives; but find that the "shoplifter" alarms still go off every time they enter a store, 5 or 10 years later.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          ‘> If you're worried by CCTV, don't shoplift.

          What a good thing that, in your world, no one has episodes of mental illness, depression or other disorder that might manifest as shoplifting; who then go on to be cured and live normal, productive lives; but find that the "shoplifter" alarms still go off every time they enter a store, 5 or 10 years later.’

          Winona?

      3. JohnFen Silver badge

        What should I do if I already don't engage in criminal behavior?

      4. Teiwaz Silver badge

        If you're worried by CCTV, don't shoplift.

        If you are really, really worried don't shop, or leave your house much, or go to any public events.

        1. JohnFen Silver badge

          "If you are really, really worried don't shop, or leave your house much, or go to any public events"

          Honestly I've been partway there for a while now. When I shop, I already "go dark" electronically by putting my phone into airplane mode so I can evade in-store WiFi and Bluetooth trackers, and I have reduced my forays into public spaces and attendance at events where there are likely to be surveillance cameras.

          I'm not becoming a complete hermit, but when surveillance cameras are around, going out in public or going to events have an increased "cost" in the cost/benefit evaluation.

      5. Someone Else Silver badge
        FAIL

        @AC --

        If you're worried by CCTV, don't shoplift.

        Moron!

    7. phuzz Silver badge
      Paris Hilton

      "If the cameras are scanning images and performing a check against a known database and discarding all the ones that don't match, that's fine with me."

      But the matching isn't 100% correct. Some people will be flagged as being stalkers when they're not, and some stalkers won't be picked up by the system, aka false positives and false negatives.

      So assuming fifty something concerts, with about 40,000 people at each, that's two million people (!), so even if their false positive rate is only 0.001%, that's still twenty people who were presumably thrown out by her security because the facial recognition didn't like their face.

      (I'm not exaggerating those ticket numbers.)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Numbers valid, assumption questionable

        Your numbers check out, but who said that a positive match to the "stalker cam" gets you thrown out of the concert? If a positive match means "hey security, keep an eye on this dude in case he tries to rush the stage", then a false positive is much more tolerable.

        1. Updraft102 Silver badge

          Re: Numbers valid, assumption questionable

          "hey security, keep an eye on this dude in case he tries to rush the stage"

          Are they looking for Kanye West then?

    8. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I'm not a fan of the surveilance state but I don't see a problem as long as the images are not being stored somewhere.

      And how does sheeple walking by these kiosks know such? You imply a level of trust that cannot exist outside your own home, and probably not even inside it TBH.

      Rather than making these things implicit approval & obtuse opt-out, consent should always be explicit to opt-in. Why is that so hard to understand and so impossible to do?

      1. iowe_iowe

        That opt-out question is such a good one. I thought GDPR meant the default position was to assume "opt-out". The way website cookie/beacon/hidden pixel tracking works on most websites is that you have to go out of your way to "opt-in", which is often a really time consuming mission.

        Should be illegal?

    9. JohnFen Silver badge

      "If the cameras are scanning images and performing a check against a known database and discarding all the ones that don't match, that's fine with me."

      If the recognition itself is also being performed locally and not through systems run by third parties, then I agree.

  5. IR

    Or...

    It's probably cheaper to announce that you are doing this, but instead just post a guy at the door for future events who watches out for anyone wearing a fake mustache or obscuring their face in order not to flag the pretend device.

  6. sisk Silver badge

    IF it merely processes the data and then discards it, and IF it's actually able to pick out known stalkers I wouldn't see a problem with it. At that point it's not so much different from a security guard watching a camera feed. However I highly doubt that it discards the data - more likely it gets sold - and I'm even more doubtful that it could reliably identify a known stalker. So....yeah.

    Also, I've got a terrible song stuck in my head now and I'm laying the blame on the Reg Vultures.

    1. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

      Weren't they in Dumbo?

  7. Danny 2 Silver badge

    First they came for the Swifties, and I did not speak out...

    because they call themselves Swifties.

    I'm a bit more worried why this videoed Swiftie wasn't arrested for dangerous driving:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XFBUM8dMqw

  8. JohnFen Silver badge

    I really wish

    I really wish that Taylor Swift was an artist I cared about, so that I could stop buying her music or going to her concerts. It sorta blunts the blow when I don't do either of those things anyway.

  9. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    So let me see if I get this straight

    Some private company decides they have the right to use state-level tech under the excuse that a fucking pop star might be confronted with a stalker ?

    What are bodyguards for ?

    This is gross misconduct at the very least. In a country that calls itself a democracy no less.

    1. Paul 129

      Re: So let me see if I get this straight

      So whats the odds its a facebook subsidiary?

    2. sed gawk

      Re: So let me see if I get this straight

      While not being a fan of super intrusive tech.. or the singer in question.

      Some private company decides they have the right to use state-level tech under the excuse that a fucking pop star might be confronted with a stalker ?

      It's not state level tech - its a crappy camera, openCV and a laptop, I could knock it up for you in couple of days.

      I don't really have much sympathy for the "right to harass" a fucking pop star.

      This is gross misconduct at the very least. In a country that calls itself a democracy no less.

      The US is a republic, it's about as democratic as the DPNK.

      Although the final vote tallies are not yet in, the indications are that Hillary Clinton will become the fifth presidential candidate to lose the election despite winning the popular vote https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2016/nov/11/clinton-won-more-votes-trump-won-the-election-and-its-not-the-first-time.

      FWIW demos = people. kratia = ‘rule of’.

      so democracy means *some* "people are ruling, not that *you* get your own fucking way on everything.

      It literally mean multiple people get to shit on you, as opposed to a single person shitting on you.

    3. Mark 85 Silver badge

      Re: So let me see if I get this straight

      True in many ways, but the rich and famous have always had private bodyguards to protect them from the hoi hoi polloi. This is just a step upwards via tech.

  10. Teiwaz Silver badge

    Taylor Shifty

    Having either so many stalkers or so paranoid that you think you have that many stalkers so you resort to deploy mass surveillance at concerts is a sure sign you've gone full farbot, or made such a belisha beacon of yourself you've become a nutter magnet.

    Time to retire to a nice private island somewhere and get out of the public eye for a couple of decades.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    My Mac software thinks my dog is a human.

    It is better at picking out the dog than it is people.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So how many Taylor Swift song titles had been used in the article?

    I would love to know whether I found all.

  13. arctic_haze Silver badge

    Thanks for the warning

    I will not pay to go to any of her concerts, anyway.

  14. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

    Dimebag,....

    ... the guy that murdered Dimebag Darrel on stage had jumped on stage at a previous gig, damaged equipment, and was removed by security. If he'd been subject to facial recognition, maybe Dimebag, and the three other people killed that day would still be alive.

    So while there are issues wrt freedom and anonymity, there's also the problem of crazy stalker fans, and it just takes one with a 9mm to ruin your day.

    1. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

      Re: Dimebag,....

      So while there are issues wrt freedom and anonymity, there's also the problem of crazy stalker fans, and it just takes one with a 9mm to ruin your day.

      Agreed.

      The fact that Dime was killed in a country where it's perfectly OK and legal for people to buy 9mm firearms at the supermarket is also a factor...but that's a wholly separate discussion.

      1. Mark 85 Silver badge

        Re: Dimebag,....

        I'm upvoting you but to be honest, I've never seen any pistols or rifles for sale in any supermarket. Now stores like WalMart that are department stores and carry groceries, sporting goods, etc, that's a different matter.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I would not have problem with that ..

    .. provided I had a CHOICE and was notified IN ADVANCE that this would take place, basically at the time when I was buying tickets (not for her, sorry) for any event where this is actively done. Oh, and guarantees that non-miscreant data is erased afterwards (never gonna happen, but we're talking about principles here).

    I can see why this is tried. Large events attract an equally large amount of idiots whose pleasure appears to mainly derived from denying others a fun time, so anything that gets these muppets kept out and/or arrested is fine in my book.

    However, by doing this without my knowledge and consent denies me the ability to make the choice not to attend (which, btw, ends up a bit of a feedback loop - people saying "no" en masse is a signal worth paying attention to). I do not deem public events as public as a street - you choose to go there. Permission ought to be asked accordingly at the time of ticket sale. 90% of people will just tick the box anyway.

  16. Aodhhan Bronze badge

    So many security people who are saying--instead of asking.

    This isn't about capturing people's facial data...

    ...it's about what is being done with it?

    Of course we know the obvious, but is the data being wiped as soon as the concert is over, or is it being saved? Is it being sold? Who is given access to it? Are the methods used for collection secure?

    As horrible as it is for the USA to regress and become England, it's bound to happen--the gov't spying on us all; everywhere. Eventually Democrats will find a silent way around the 4th and 5th amendments. Likely saying one thing and doing another.

    1. JohnFen Silver badge

      Re: So many security people who are saying--instead of asking.

      "Eventually Democrats will find a silent way around the 4th and 5th amendments. "

      I was with you until this. By singling out Democrats, you apparently believe that this wouldn't happen with the Republicans. I don't think that's correct, though -- this sort of urge is nonpartisan.

  17. Spasticus Autisticus
    Happy

    Much prefer get schwifty - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ctK1aoWuqY - not particularly NSFW

  18. Florida1920 Silver badge
    Big Brother

    What constitutes a "stalker"?

    Someone who attends more than two of her concerts? Yeah, they should be detained.

    1. JohnG Silver badge

      Re: What constitutes a "stalker"?

      How about: breaking into her home, taking a shower and then sleeping in her bed?

      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6473155/Taylor-Swift-stalker-gets-six-months-prison.html

      However, I guess Swift, her family, friends and management company are more concerned about Eric Swarbrick. Over the course of two years, he has threatened to rape and kill Swift.

      https://meaww.com/taylor-swift-death-note-stalker-eric-swarbrick-restraining-order

  19. JohnG Silver badge

    AI?

    They say the camera was taking photos and sending them a centre for processing...but was the image recognition by AI or by a bunch of interns?

  20. Luiz Abdala
    WTF?

    So her staff pulled a Robocop - updated version.

    Let's hope her security doesn't pull an ED-209.

  21. Andrew 99

    cryptic hats

    we're all not wearing enough hats!

  22. martinusher Silver badge

    I'm not so sure about that "doesn't work that well"

    The point about facial recognition software is that it really doesn't need to work that well, just as well or better than a human. Even so, I think it works a whole lot better than people think but its effectiveness is downplayed to avoid spooking the public. My evidence for this is where I'm likely to come across it. For example, when I go through Los Angeles International Airport as a US citizen I won't normally interact with a human except to take the printed entry ticked I got from the automated entry booth. When I travel across the US near the Mexican border I go through checkpoints that don't require you to stop but will have cameras to check who's in the car (you see the same technology at the land border crossing in lanes used by regular travelers). Then there are the developments in Russia and China -- Russia, matching generic CCTV images with images on social media, China there's systems to identify wanted people that can pick them out of a crowd.

    The only part of this story that doesn't add up is checking for so-called stalkers. I wonder what they're really looking for?

  23. Danny 2 Silver badge

    Beyonce @ NATO

    This is an off-topic and irrelevant anecdote so feel free to downvote or delete. Oh, and I can't find supporting links or even remember the year so feel free to disbelieve.

    The Edinburgh International Conference Centre hosted NATO ambassadors or foreign ministers discussing the occupation of Afghanistan at the same time as it hosted a music awards do.

    This led to a lot of peace protesters and music fans out front trying to get in, and wads of police and security easily stopping them.

    I wanted to get inside to protest the Afghan war but I knew the area so I walked across the Western Approach Road into the parking area. Apparently too dangerous for any security. There was still no way into the building, the car park doors needed security keys, so I was about to turn back when one door opened.

    Beyonce stepped out in a sparkly green evening dress. I hadn't seen or even heard of Beyonce so my first thought was, "That is a strange costume for a NATO ambassador."

    I moved to get inside the door before she closed it, nearly bumping into her, and immediately two huge black guys in tuxedos got between me and her and were obviously about to deck me. I gestured past her to the door, and they realised I wasn't after her and let me in, while shielding her from me.

    It was only when I saw the local STV news later that I learned who she was. I still get to the NATO ambassadors but I got closer than anyone else, and I learned they were less protected than the music folk, several of whom I passed in the corridors. Again, I don't know who any of them were so any interest you may have had has been misplaced.

    [I have a similarly boring, if shorter, anecdote about Alexander Usminov and Naomi Campbell if anyone requests it]

    Celebrities and war criminal: can't live them, can't get within five feet of them.

  24. Snowy
    Facepalm

    No need to store the image

    They make a digital signature to represent your face, keep that and throw any the image!

  25. Barrie Shepherd

    An associated story: https://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/police-going-test-facial-recognition-13735265

    Perhaps one of the Newspapers, who are often screaming about privacy etc, could print a cardboard face mask of Teresa May and distribute it in their copies on 16th & 17th, we could all walk around Soho giving the Police trail a good work out.

  26. Anonymous C0ward

    She sounds so vain

    she probably thinks that song is about her!

    1. 080

      Re: She sounds so vain

      With all the coverage this story has been having I suspect it is more about publicity than privacy, and we are contributing to it.

  27. Sierpinski
    Big Brother

    plus ça change

    And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss installs security equipment to automate gazing back at you.

  28. Bibbit

    Yoof speak

    Surely "getting down to sick beats" is just what middle-aged people think yooths say, right? It is not actually a thing?

  29. os2mac

    So who won the contest?

    Just wondering who won the contest to include as many TS lyrics and song titles in the article.

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