back to article If at first or second you don't succeed, you may be Microsoft: Hold off installing re-released Windows Oct Update

The 1809 build of Windows 10 and Windows Server is fast becoming infamous. Microsoft pulled it shortly after release when it started deleting people's files, and stumbling in other ways. Redmond reissued the software on Tuesday, and today it's clear you shouldn't rush into deploying it, if installing it at all, in its present …

  1. Mark 85 Silver badge

    It would seem that the old saying "third time is the charm" isn't. Any bets on how many Oct. Updates it'll take?

    1. Richard Jones 1
      Joke

      Wait For Another October?

      Happily for MS there will be another October in the'2019 time frame', so all is not yet lost.

      1. jelabarre59 Silver badge

        Re: Wait For Another October?

        Happily for MS there will be another October in the'2019 time frame', so all is not yet lost.

        I remember when a science-fiction club I used to be in had some particular piece of business that *had* to be taken care of by a particular month. That month's meeting ran out of time to handle business just then, so they made a motion that the meeting would be put on hold, to be resumed on the 45th of October (or whatever month it was).

    2. el kabong

      Technical debt

      The windows code base in particular seems to have so much debt accumulated that I suspect (very strongly) micro$oft will never be able to repay it in full.

      In the end windows will have to go, windows will be left to rot alone ending its miserable life as a piece of abandonware among many others. micro$soft will get tired of all the painful meddling windows takes and will let it go. That day is approaching fast!

      1. nematoad Silver badge

        Re: Technical debt

        "In the end windows will have to go, windows will end its miserable life as abandonware."

        From what I can see it already has. And to think that some people actually have to buy this mess. £119 or thereabouts I believe.

        1. Mikel

          Re: Technical debt

          >And to think that some people actually have to buy this mess. £119 or thereabouts I believe.

          The sacrificial computer to try these things out on before you trust them with your data costs much more.

        2. Someone Else Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: Technical debt

          Maybe...just maybe, Micros~1 will OSS it, and it will finally get fixed.

      2. bobjimwhit

        Re: Technical debt

        some people talk a load of bullshit...

        1. Shadow Systems Silver badge

          Re: Technical debt

          At bobjimwhit, re: some people talk a lot of bullshit...

          True, Microsoft talks quite a lot of it.

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Technical debt

          "some people talk a load of bullshit"

          They do indeed. They're usually salesmen promising delivery before the product's really ready for release.

      3. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: Technical debt

        I'm old enough to remember when major new features in Windows were so disruptive that MS had to throw them all away and start again. Even second time around, the result was Vista, so ghod alone knows how bad it was when they killed it first time.

        The difference is, that first round of development is now being done "live, on customer systems", because some moron decided that this was the modern way of working.

        1. Ilsa Loving

          Re: Technical debt

          You can thank the unbelievably stupid "move fast and break things" mentality that Facebook and other "modern" companies helped usher into the industry.

          1. JLV Silver badge

            Re: Technical debt

            >unbelievably stupid

            Agreed, but that does have some nuances. There's a blog post somewhere titled "You're not Google" and it's about why solutions that work for Google may not work for you (the emphasis was on scaling-before-all not being a fit for everyone).

            For FB (not a fan myself), moving fast, breaking and fixing may in fact be a good approach.

            IF:

            - you can re-deliver working software very easily. This is very true for websites, less so for PCs and quite a lot less for embedded. Steam games and smartphone apps are pretty good there too.

            - the consequences to your users of an outage are trivial. For FB or a game, this holds true. For an online banking website it's not.

            - you are largely read-only (Netflix)

            - your users do not mind having to wait a while until things are fixed. This is not true for a computer's OS.

            If you take steps to preserve data and privacy (let's not mention FB here) and if you can segment new code with A/B testing, then, yes, I'd argue this is not a bad approach. Netflix is on the extreme end as they deliberately break things to make them more resilient.

            But most companies are NOT operating within those parameters. Stupidity happens when someone drinks the coolaid, takes an approach that works under certain circumstances and applies it willy-nilly.

            Frequent build devops CAN be great on a website. It can also be great if it pumps new builds into a rigorous QA process, well-isolated from customers. I know I am dumb enough that getting something right takes me zillions of runs and builds - I'd have been fired in punchcard days - but then it usually stays working from that point on.

            It sucks when it delivers failing code to your end users, destroys their data and keeps them from using the system.

            Advice to MS: you are not FB*. Spend some $$$$$, hire some software quality supremos (maybe someone heading Linux/BSD builds), give them power, and fix your stupid practices that are making you a laughingstock, not just to the IT geeks but more and more to everyone else as well.

            * holds true for your effin telemetry too.

        2. Someone Else Silver badge

          @Ken Hagan -- Re: Technical debt

          The difference is, that first round of development is now being done "live, on customer systems", because some moron decided that this was the modern way of working.

          some moron == SatNad

    3. JLV Silver badge

      at this rate how many Decembers...

      any indication of the percentage of systems affected? is this frequent, which this article almost reads as? or infrequent, as I really struggle to understand how such a bug ships in that case.

    4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      'It would seem that the old saying "third time is the charm" isn't.'

      ISTR that the rule of thumb with Microsoft products was not to buy anything before version 3 and to avoid version 4 at all costs.

    5. billdehaan

      Back in the 1990s, the joke used to be that "At Microsoft, quality is job 3.1" (based on Ford's then-current slogan "At Ford, quality is job one").

      Unfortunately, things have gotten worse, not better. BTC (before the cloud), customers would look at a next-gen product blowing up in deployment, and go "hmm, nope, we'll stay with what we have, thanks". Today, that's not an option, as MS is pushing people off of their existing systems, and into the new tech, whether they like it or not.

      That could be beneficial, if MS was releasing solid, secure improvements to the customer stream. But they aren't. They're flailing around, in mad panic, adding features that they want, not what the customer has asked for. And worse, by concentrating on the shiny new features, they're ignoring the core features of the operating system.

      I though IBM's OS/2 1.3 CSD 5050, known as "the CSD of doom" was the nadir of consumer operating system rollouts. Even WinME wasn't that bad. But MS has now surpassed it.

      When customers are not only unwilling to implement vendor fixes, but discussion fora are filled with customers discussing how to not only bypass, but defeat vendor patches because they're afraid of them, there's a serious problem. Unfortunately, Microsoft doesn't seem to care all that much, based on how they're doubling down on their rollout strategy.

  2. bombastic bob Silver badge
    Trollface

    Schadenfreude

    Win-10-nic forced updates! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

    The October November December Who knows WHEN they'll get it right update. For Win-10-nic. Cramming it up your computer's peripheral slot following a multi-hour intarweb download near you!

    Doesn't it *FEEL* good to have Win-10-nic on your computer?

    (I'm glad I'm still using 7 for my windows things)

    This gift just KEEPS ON GIVING!

    Got Linux?

    1. Solarflare

      Re: Schadenfreude

      I'm sure I've asked you this before, but what is the deal with "Win-10-nic"? I don't get the pun/put-down/witticism there?

      1. Fibbles

        Re: Schadenfreude

        Your mistake here is in assuming any sought of coherent thought process.

      2. druck
        Happy

        Re: Schadenfreude

        I believe its a reference to the Titanic, a ship which was claimed to be the most advanced ever developed, and completely unsinkable, but turned out to be a disaster. Intel's disastrous Itanium processor was dubbed the Itanic and Microsoft's disastrous OS is dubbed the Win-10-nic.

        1. JohnFen Silver badge

          Re: Schadenfreude

          That's the only explanation I've heard that even approaches making some sort of sense. But if that's what he's aiming for, it's such a serious stretch as to border on incomprehensible.

        2. billdehaan

          Re: Schadenfreude

          Ah, many thanks for the explanation.

          I wasn't parsing it phonetically, when I saw "NIC" and "forced download" in the same sentence, I was thinking of the NIC as being the network interface controller doing the download. Unsurprisingly, the Win-10-NIC makes no sense whatsoever in that context.

      3. Roopee

        Re: Schadenfreude

        Keep up - I asked that same question, about Bob's weird nomenclature in his rants, less than a fortnight ago!

    2. Ilsa Loving

      Re: Schadenfreude

      I just bought a new gaming laptop with the intent of putting Linux on it.

      So far not all the keyboard fn keys work (eg brightness). Not a biggie but annoying.

      Optimus isn't working properly so until I figure out how to get Bumblebee (and maybe VirtualGL) working right. I have to log out every time I switch graphics chips.

      HiDPI is mishandled by the majority of distros. I had to try several before I finally settled on Linux Mint Cinnamon. (And even then I need to play with env variables for certain apps)

      Still trying to find decent equivalents of basic software like a PIM suite. The software landscape for business-quality apps on Linux is frustratingly barren. I did at least find a good quality PDF Viewer/Editor to replace Adobe: Qoppa PDF Studio. None of the usual suspects (Evince, etc) can handle a PDF form with embedded javascript.

      So yeah, Linux has a long way to go before it can come close to being a viable alternative to Windows or Mac for the average person.

      And to save time: No, there is no equivalent laptop with the desired specs, that is sold with Linux on it. If there had been, I would have bought it! The closest is the Oryx Pro from System76, but it's battery is nowhere near large enough.

      1. JLV Silver badge

        Re: Schadenfreude

        +1 informative. I’d also jump on a powerful Linux preinstalled lappy.

        but...

        >handle a PDF form with embedded javascript.

        No idea about your use case, but I'd argue _not_ running embedded JS from a PDF is a feature :-)

        1. JohnFen Silver badge

          Re: Schadenfreude

          "I'd argue _not_ running embedded JS from a PDF is a feature :-)"

          I could not agree more, and not just for PDFs.

      2. Ian Johnston Silver badge

        Re: Schadenfreude

        So yeah, Linux has a long way to go before it can come close to being a viable alternative to Windows or Mac for the average person.

        She said, having given a list of requirements which are not those of the average person. I've been using Ubuntu since 2006 for work and the only thing missing from my life is a Skype for Business client.

      3. Cavehomme_

        Re: Schadenfreude

        Linux is missing so many opportunities to eat into Windows because the distro communities are so utterly divided. Ubuntu tried but failed to become the distro of choice.

        Mint is the best contender but until hoardes of developers from other distros jump ship and support Mint to become good enough to become a powerful enough contender then it will continue to struggle.

        I won’t even get into the issue of different desktops with Gnome, K, Mate, Cinamon, etc

        Then we need to address applications. Even Libreoffice is regrettably not good enough yet to replace the ubiquitous MS Office for most people. Until Mint becomes the main distro, the likes of Adobe, SAP, and thousands of others will not invest their dollars into producing and maintaining a Linux version. They need a winner to risk their efforts on.

        Then there’s the basics of printing and scanning which are still woeful.

        Graphic drivers, sleeping, hiberbating, touchscreens, WiFi are all serious issues or shortcomings I’ve faced with Mint and others.

        We need the community to finally stop masturbating on their own fantasies and instead join together in a creative orgy of cooperation on one distro to finally push Windows aside forever.

        1. nematoad Silver badge
          Thumb Down

          Re: Schadenfreude

          "... instead join together in a creative orgy of cooperation on one distro to finally push Windows aside forever."

          That's not going to happen. See the main reason many people including me chose Gnu/Linux is because you have a choice. Choice of distro, desktop, applications and the freedom to get your computer to work the way you want it to, not having to work the way a monolithic, faceless entity makes you. After all, who is the expert in how and why you use your computer? Not MS or Apple that's for sure. Red Hat and Ubuntu have generated lots of criticism and controversy by trying to be the "one distro to rule them all". With Gnu/Linux you have a choice and can go off and fork any project if you need to. See Linux Mint or LibreOffice as excellent examples of that. With a single distro we would soon be in a similar position to that of IE users a few years back. Stagnant, insecure and being told "Like it or lump it"

          Too many people appreciate what FLOSS and Gnu/Linux in particular have done for them to throw it all away in a bid to topple a increasingly incompetent, error prone, arrogant company like MS. They are doing a good job on their own.

        2. Teiwaz Silver badge

          Re: Schadenfreude

          Linux is missing so many opportunities....

          @Cavehomme_

          Sound s like basically you think 'Linux should become a corporate product, just like MS.

          All the issues you have mentioned (apart from the vast choice in desktops, distros etc) are down to Manufacturers of hardware not having provided drivers (or just shit BETA ones) for their hardware, be it GPUs, Network cards, Scanners.

          They often refuse or are difficult or reticent to cooperate with projects like Nouveau, or SANE to help 'Linux software engineers write their own native drivers to run their hardware.

          At this point they are actively participating in locking users into the Microsoft ecosystem by continuing with this short-sighted limited outlook.

          1. werdsmith Silver badge

            Re: Schadenfreude

            Unfortunately the Linux community is in denial about the reasons for the continued Ubiquity of Windows. The things that Reg reading techies value are not the same as in the wider world and we are a small minority. They see Linux zealots as Jeff Albertson supercilious bores and they are not far wrong. A different approach is needed. They are not interested in your openn source and your free choice and superior architecture. They just want to get on and get their work done.

            I am not a advocate of any os. I use all three main desktop options daily, interchangeably .

            1. JohnFen Silver badge

              Re: Schadenfreude

              "Unfortunately the Linux community is in denial about the reasons for the continued Ubiquity of Windows."

              I don't agree. I think that the Linux community tends to be fully aware of those reasons. I think where people get confused is that they think there is a great yearning in the Linux community that it topples Windows. Outside of a small (but vocal, since tech journalists are a major portion of this) group, I don't think that the Linux community is willing to compromise Linux to the degree necessary to achieve that goal.

        3. JohnFen Silver badge

          Re: Schadenfreude

          "We need the community to finally stop masturbating on their own fantasies and instead join together in a creative orgy of cooperation on one distro to finally push Windows aside forever."

          I sincerely hope this doesn't happen. The variety of Linux distros is a strength, not a weakness. A distro aimed at being a drop-in replacement for Windows is likely to include an awful lot of things that will only make Linux worse for those of us who currently choose it. Having some distros with that as the goal is fine, as long as there are other distros that I can use.

  3. Adam 1 Silver badge

    > That stunning Redmond Q&A at work again, we guess.

    I am old enough to remember before the abbreviation of Quality Assurance had an ampersand in it.

    1. A.P. Veening

      Q(&A)

      I am old enough to remember that Quality used to be something positive.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Devil

        Re: Q(&A)

        yeah well this article

        https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/23/microsoft_windows_10_crisis/

        contains a brilliant statement: "Windows 10 is officially a shit show"

        I summarized a few links about this update in a usenet post a couple of weeks or so ago:

        https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/08/microsoft_windows_10_pulled/

        https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/10/microsoft_windows_deletion_bug/

        https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/04/microsoft_windows_10_1809_audio/

        https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/23/windows_10_problem_roundup/

        posted here as well, for everyone's enjoyment!

        Hey El Reg, would you mind adding this list [and maybe a few more similar links] as a bootnote? Or if this comment stays near the top then everyone will see them here, whichever. It's a nice chronology, of sorts, as documented in El Reg.

      2. seven of five

        Quality

        > I am old enough to remember that Quality used to be something positive.

        Actually, "Quality used to *mean* something positive"

        Unfortunetaly, MS is rather more old school, back to the roots here and refers to "quality" as in its original, latin form "qualitas". Which translates to "(the) state (of sth)".

        And no one cany deny Windows 10 does indeed have a lot of state.

        1. A.P. Veening

          Re: Quality

          "And no one can deny Windows 10 does indeed have a lot of state."

          Well played, in my defense I can only state I am not that old.

      3. jelabarre59 Silver badge

        Re: Q(&A)

        I am old enough to remember that Quality used to be something positive.

        Remember that "control" can mean keeping something from growing or expanding too much. Therefore "Quality Control" means insuring the quality of a product doesn't get too high. Product testers were conflicting with that agenda.

        1. Roopee
          Headmaster

          Re: Q(&A)

          Re "Quality Control" means insuring the quality"

          I think you mean "ensuring" - insuring is something you pay DirectLine for.

      4. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Q(&A)

        "I am old enough to remember that Quality used to be something positive."

        That was before ISO9000 when quality became something you can define and achieve repeatably, irrespective of how mediocre it is.

    2. chivo243 Silver badge
      Boffin

      @Adam 1

      yes, yes, Q&A but what about the QC part of the equation? Assurances can be made, but if there's no control behind it, fugetaboutit...

      1. soulrideruk Bronze badge

        Q&A??

        Surely Q&A is a mistake?

        QA: Quality Assurance

        QC: Quality Control

        Q&A: Question & Answer

        1. RangerFish

          Re: Q&A??

          The previous comment needed more Q&A

    3. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

      I am old enough to remember before the abbreviation of Quality Assurance had an ampersand in it.

      And I'm old enough to remember doing it when there was an ampersand in it..

      (Don't get me started with Agile and QA - no really, don't get me started becuase I want to go home sometime today..)

      1. Cavehomme_

        Agile? You surely mean Fragile?

    4. Updraft102 Silver badge

      I am old enough to remember before the abbreviation of Quality Assurance had an ampersand in it.

      Mayflies are old enough to remember this. Q&A is "questions and answers."

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Pathetic

    >> a bug it knew was present in Windows, but chose not to fix in the re-release of build 1809

    It's bad enough that they don't do proper testing, but even when they actually find a problem they just leave it in and chuck out the update anyway!

    1. LDS Silver badge

      Re: Pathetic

      It's a subtle hint you should stop using local mapped drivers, you have to use cloud storage spaces....

    2. Dave K Silver badge

      Re: Pathetic

      I'm not surprised, I'd imagine the conversation at MS went something like this:

      Engineer: There is one notable bug, network drives don't work properly.

      Manager: Well, this update is only going out to home users initially and this issues won't affect home users right? I mean, which home users use mapped drives?

      Engineer: Some users may have NASs, or may map a drive for sharing files between two home computers?

      Manager: Yeah, but they'll be in a minority, and besides we don't really care about home users anyway.

      Engineer: I dunno, it's quite a noticeable bug that will affect some people.

      Manager: I don't really care. So long as it won't affect business users, we're OK. The update is overdue and our marketing people really want to get it released ASAP.

      Engineer: It might also hit some small busine...

      Manager: I don't care! Just get it out there now. Meeting our twice-yearly releases on-time is far more important than a few bugs.

      ...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Pathetic

        I'm afraid you're being generous, it might have been much, much shorter:

        Engineer: There is one notable bug, network drives don't work properly.

        Manager: Shrug

    3. Spazturtle Silver badge

      Re: Pathetic

      "It's bad enough that they don't do proper testing, but even when they actually find a problem they just leave it in and chuck out the update anyway!"

      I found a bug recently, my audio would constantly go down to 0, as in it will slide down, I could try and fight it by dragging the slider up but it would always win. I found people complaining about this bug going all the way back to the release of Windows 7.

      After less then an hour of diagnosing I found the cause, when you plug in an USB audio device windows creates a HID device for all the buttons on it, it assumes that the device has an audio up and an audio down button. But if you were accidentally pressing any of the buttons on the device when you connected the it (and even if you later let go) then widows thinks the audio down button is constantly being pressed, reducing the audio to 0. Windows seams to store a cache of device data so even uninstalling the device in device manager and reconnecting it doesn't fix it, this cache seams to get wiped whenever windows updates though.

      1. nematoad Silver badge
        Headmaster

        Re: Pathetic

        "...Windows seams to store a cache"

        Spelling! It should be "seems".

        Seams are what you get in trousers.

        1. jelabarre59 Silver badge

          Re: Pathetic

          Spelling! It should be "seems".

          Seams are what you get in trousers.

          Well, MSWin is pants...

          1. 404 Silver badge

            Re: Well, MSWin is pants...

            GTFO ->

            ;)

  5. alpensturm

    Cannot reproduce the net share issue...

    Installed 1809 on three laptops - no issues at all so far!

    1. sabroni Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Cannot reproduce the net share issue...

      Hmm, I think MS have access to a slightly larger test fleet......

      1. Pascal Monett Silver badge
        Linux

        For all the good it does them . . .

        In any case, I'm glad Microsoft is doing its level best to promote the use of Linux.

        You really couldn't find a better advocate.

        1. John 104

          For all the good it does them . . .

          In any case, I'm glad Microsoft is doing its level best to promote the use of Linux.

          You really couldn't find a better advocate.

          Indeed. After the update bricked my HP laptop, I installed the latest version of Mint and am not looking back. - Windows System Admin.

      2. alpensturm

        Re: Cannot reproduce the net share issue...

        … that may well be the case. I didn't state that the bug does not exist, I only said it does not occur on our network.

      3. jelabarre59 Silver badge

        Re: Cannot reproduce the net share issue...

        Hmm, I think MS have access to a slightly larger test fleet......

        Yeah, it's called "end users"....

    2. katrinab Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Cannot reproduce the net share issue...

      I too am unable to reproduce the net share issue, because when I went to install it on a throwaway virtual machine, it said the update wasn't available.

      1. Jack of Shadows Silver badge

        Re: Cannot reproduce the net share issue...

        I rather suspect that Microsoft is mucking around in SMB again, probably in an attempt to rearchitect/reengineer it yet again. You should, operative word should there, need to only step back and let a couple of months go by only, operative word only there, if you've completely screwed up and can't fall back as some other team(s) have made the new requirements irreversible. Network plumbing changes like these are very fussy. Notice, too, that Windows 8.1U1 and older don't seem to be affected. Maybe?Hopefully?

        That's my view of what probably happened, although I can say it's happened to me on several occasions, for instance, having to go in manually and transform all the databases due to enterprise guys making a mandatory breaking change without inserting code to do the transform due to that breaking change by hand. Not fun!

        [1] That's where I learned COBOL the hard way. By reading their source code and mentally making the transforms from prior to new. Sweet thing about COBOL, it's very verbose, and I liked it!

        [2} The Harris system engineer gave me my own system GENTAP with all their compilers, tools and, especially, the damed man pages.

        [3] God(s) bless some IBM system engineers who didn't mind taking a snot-nosed kid under their wing, who liked to hang around the computing center, and taught him to think this way when it's all FUBAR.

        1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: Cannot reproduce the net share issue...

          I rather suspect that Microsoft is mucking around in SMB again, probably in an attempt to rearchitect/reengineer it yet again.

          I believe the issues with SMB mounts not reconnecting is due to activating the Hardened UNC Paths feature by default. So it's not "mucking around in SMB" in the sense of altering the protocol itself, but in adding security features to their SMB client implementation (which it desperately needs, of course) which break some existing connections. But I admit that's a subtle distinction.

          The October update broke Group Policy Updates to my corporate laptop, for example, because of an authentication failure. (I didn't bother investigating further to figure out which machine was failing to authenticate the other.) I had to configure HUP in Group Policy (on the client) to not require mutual authentication for SYSVOL shares to get it to work.

          There are various articles online discussing the issue.

    3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Cannot reproduce the net share issue...

      "Installed 1809 on three laptops - no issues at all so far!"

      I'm sure everyone who has this particular problem thought the same thing when they read complaints about the last problem. Don't assume your turn isn't coming.

  6. Lee D Silver badge

    Yeah, this is why I stuck on Windows 8.1 (which gives me a few years before upgrade yet!) and don't automatically install any updates.

    Sorry, Microsoft, but if even 1% of computers fail your update with errors like "you can't map network drives", then that update isn't going to get applied. Simple as that. I'm not running around 1% of my machines diagnosing mystery issues that won't get fixed until next year.

    Have you not learned the lesson yet?

    Monolithic updates are bad.

    Updates which affect thousand upon thousands of unrelated files are bad.

    Untested updates are bad.

    Forced updates are bad.

    If you'd broken this out into lots of small patches, you could have a) not affected your bandwidth but let users download it piecemeal, b) isolate individual fixes into individual updates with almost no difference on the back end, c) allowed power users and your own testers (laugh) to isolate which parts of the updates are failing easily, d) let your users download all the ones that aren't broken and revoke just those that are, e) seen interactions such as update X only goes wrong when also applied with update Y and saved everyone a lot of time, f) let users isolate using binary-search and remove individual updates that happen to cause them problems even if you don't care a jot about doing that yourself.

    I really hope you continue to work like this, break so many critical updates, and get one of those "Whoops, you updated now and it's broke and there's nothing we can do" scenarios that you can just step back from, and start breaking people's machine irreversibly, so that you're made to stop with the forced updates. If you could manage that before 8.1 comes out of extended support, I'd be so happy.

    1. sabroni Silver badge

      This! I'm glad they're fucking up so spectacularly, sooner it starts to cost MS cash the sooner they stop with this bollocks.

    2. Fibbles

      Jesus, you know things have gone to pot when people start consider Windows 8 as a better alternative.

      1. Lee D Silver badge

        Nothing wrong with 8.1.

        Slap Classic Shell on it, turn off all the Metro junk, it's pretty much Windows 7 with knobs on and the only real difference is when things want to jump into Metro for no good reason (e.g. some settings options).

        Literally, this place was a Windows 7 shop, that had tried to upgrade to 8 "naively" (i.e. not tried to customise it at all) and it was a disaster and reverted and "never again". I took over the IT, silently started rolling out 8.1 with Classic Shell and NOBODY noticed or cared and still haven't 4 years later. The only thing they noticed was the organisation logo in the start menu button, because I put it there as a bit of branding, and they all loved it. That's something that, as far as I know, you can't do with basic Windows alone with all kinds of messy editing.

        It's about how you manage it, not the fact that it's 7 / 8.1 / 10. The problem is that I consider 10 too big a leap for my users at the moment so I will lump it together with a load of other big-leaps so they just have to bite the bullet and change the way the work once, rather than 3-4 times over for different things. But that will happen when ALL my suppliers support 10 properly (and have done for a whlle, not just said "we now work on 10"), and the banks etc. are dragging their feet on that.

        1. LeahroyNake Bronze badge

          I also prefer 8.1 over 10, it's a bit of a mess about to get the security updates to download as apparently the Ryzen 5 1600 is not supported even though it works just fine.

          The only other downside is AMD not releasing graphics drivers for 8.1... wtf is with that attitude ?

          And... a mapped network drive Qnap NAS / failed to connect happens every time I boot the thing even though when I try to open it / works just fine. Very strange.

        2. Jack of Shadows Silver badge

          Windows 8.1U1 is perfectly loved here, once I step in and use Winstep Nexus Ultimate on the shell. But I've been doing that to Windows since WNU popped up on the 'net as soon as it was out. Basically same principle. Give the user their favorite shell, not some declared in Redmond mandatory, maximally stupid shell.

  7. Giovani Tapini
    FAIL

    What I find really depressing

    is the basic nature of the issues. These are not issues with specific drivers, old hardware, or other unusual configurations. How TF do you break mapping drives which frankly even many home users do. Never mind removing access to personal files and deleting them etc.

    With an OS that seriously objects if you don't apply all the latest patches because it's trying to be a service it is even harder to dodge the tripwires being added to the platform. I don't want workarounds at an enterprise scale either. That may be OK for a techie at home or a small business with a techie, but when you are talking thousands of seats of both non technical, and access restricted staff these become a serious issue.

    Microsoft will kill their own business if the as-a-service model destroys more than it creates. Note to M$ slow down your release cycle, and start testing if you want to keep credibility and customers.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: What I find really depressing

      "How TF do you break mapping drives which frankly even many home users do"

      You spend your ENTIRE life getting rewarded for PARTICIPATION instead of EXCELLENCE. And THEN you glide through "college" getting indoctrinated instead of educated, and then end up working for a mega-corporation with a culture such as the ones they have at Micro-shaft, Google, etc..

      (if you don't get why I said that, you probably aren't old enough yet)

    2. Updraft102 Silver badge

      Re: What I find really depressing

      Microsoft will kill their own business if the as-a-service model destroys more than it creates. Note to M$ slow down your release cycle, and start testing if you want to keep credibility and customers.

      It is evident that they do not want to keep Windows customers. They're a cloud company now, right? Windows has gone from the jewel of the MS empire to its whipping boy. They seem to think they can pull off the scuttling of Windows while still keeping their cloud customers. Time will tell if it works, but I think that enough people still think that MS=Windows (including those who make the decisions over which cloud services to use) to make this a very risky proposition. They may be eager to shed Windows customers, but the part about credibility remains. If Windows is floundering, people will think MS is floundering, and that makes MS cloud look risky. Well, it is risky, of course, but I mean even riskiER than relying on someone else's server (where your data and livelihood can be held hostage) already is.

  8. Semtex451 Silver badge

    When you said.....

    "All in all, try it out before you deploy it on a system you rely on"

    I read, "try to be out when you deploy it on..."

    Which might also be sound advice, especially if you work near your helpdesk team.

  9. John70

    You experience the following issues in Windows 10, version 1809:

    In Windows Explorer, a red X appears on the mapped network drives.

    Mapped network drives are displayed as Unavailable when you run the net use command at a command prompt.

    In the notification area, a notification displays the following message: 'Could not reconnect all network drives.'

    Not just 1809 update. Been happening for years.

    1. Anonymous Coward Silver badge
      Facepalm

      And in my experience, any programmatic access to those drives will fail until explorer has been used to access them, at which point they magically reconnect.

  10. Bob Magoo

    X marks the spot

    The Red X is cosmetic in nature only, the drive is still actually mapped and accessible. It's not a new thing in 1809 either...

    1. gerdesj Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: X marks the spot

      "It's not a new thing in 1809 either..."

      It's 2018 here. You stick to your steam punk OS and I'll get some work done.

    2. AJ MacLeod

      Re: X marks the spot (@Bob Magoo)

      Sometimes, as you say, the drive is still mapped and accessible - but not always. Just as often it's not accessible, and to make matters worse it can be almost impossible to actually delete the mapping and recreate it (Windows won't let you disconnect the drive because it's "already disconnected" and won't let you recreate the mapping because it's already mapped.)

      Definitely a bug that's been around for quite a long time, and very annoying it is too when it randomly springs up.

  11. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
    Flame

    I think

    its time for the phone call to our CAM software suppliers and ask them a very important question

    "Do you do a linux version yet?"

    Flames... because m$ seem intent of burning themselves down

  12. Steve Jackson
    WTF?

    Can somebody explain to me what Win-10-nic is supposed to convey?

    It doesn't scan or ring any bells with me. I'd love to be in on the joke, insult or whatever it is supposed to imply, assert or mock.

    Please and thank you.

    1. jonathan keith

      I think it's an extremely laboured reference to the Titanic.

      1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        I think it's an extremely laboured reference to the Titanic.

        To be fair - Bombadil Bob is a rabid Republican so you can't expect *too* much in the way of thought processes from him..

        1. #define INFINITY -1 Bronze badge

          I'm not going to throw a snide remark, but how often I've heard wise men warn us against the use of the word 'democratic' for a nation or a party is cause for thought.

          Disclaimer: I get to watch the US show from afar. Serves them right too--imposing their Broadway _and_ Hollywood infections on the rest of the world.

      2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        "I think it's an extremely laboured reference to the Titanic."

        It's an exceedingly bad one, or at least one step removed from being one.

        Itanium -> Itanic is a reasonable step and Itanic is only one letter removed from Titanic.

        Win10-ic, however, is not an abbreviation for Wintenium and has very few letters in common with Titanic.

        Win10-ic -> Itanic works quite well, but you need to accept the latter as a real word rather than a joke in its own right.

      3. MysteryGuy
        Joke

        Re: Schadenfreude

        > I think it's an extremely laboured reference to the Titanic

        Shouldn't that be 'The Titanic as a service'?

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Can somebody explain to me what Win-10-nic is supposed to convey?

      "Win-10-nic", a somewhat obvious pun on 'Win-10' and 'Titanic', similar to 'Itanic', someone else's idea that I borrowed from the 'Insider' program before this abomination was foisted upon the masses, and meant to convey the following:

      a) arrogance

      b) lack of proper safety for the passengers

      c) low quality materials/construction.

      d) bad design assumptions

      e) "icebergs ahead" --> "all ahead full anyway"

      f) is obviously NOT "too big to sink" nor "too big to fail" (see 'arrogance')

      g) Was intended to be a symbol of prowess and market domination, ended up as one of the worst disasters of its time.

      and so on.

      And Micro-shaft CONTINUES to "miss the boat" and GET IT WRONG on Win-10-nic, and continues to prove that I'm RIGHT about it.

      [if I could include the 2D FLATSO in that analogy I'd do it; sadly, that was a feature of 'Ape' (8) that unfortunately carried forward for ALL of the wrong reasons. The 2D FLATTY is a bit like 70's disco, in that "popular" music became dumbed down, as did the appearance of the Windows UI, to an oversimplified form, spawning a HUGE division between the 'disco bunnies' and the 'rockers', so much so that a Chicago DJ, Steve Dahl, held a 'Disco Demolition Night' (see wikipedia article for more info) at a baseball game, with 'interesting' results. Similarly, there's a real backlash brewing against Windows 10 that has yet to 'surface' (bad pun) enough to be overwhelmingly obvious, not just due to the 2D FLATSO but also the low quality forced updates, spying, etc. - and for now it just sits there ready to boil over at a moment's notice]

  13. mark l 2 Silver badge

    It sounds like having Trend AV installed is a good thing if it stops Windows 10 automatically downloading the latest Win 10 'feature update' which contains very little I would actually want, and causes my PC to be tied up for hours while it downloads and installs.

    1. LeahroyNake Bronze badge

      Maybe other AV vendors should take note and sell it as a feature ?

  14. Vanir

    Just where are the software developers in MS?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhh_GeBPOhs

    The programmng tests that MS do to obtain the best programmers and software engineers seem to be for naught.

    What's happenng to MS, and has been for years, is the gangrene of corporate marketing wasting away the engineering muscle. The stench is palpable.

    It's happening to Google, Facebook and the other big techs it seems.

    Hopefully, Mr Torvalds' nice rants keep on being a good barrier to any gangrene getting into the Linux kernel.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Just where are the software developers in MS?

      I'm also going to point the finger at the development method du jour, Agile.

      1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        Re: Just where are the software developers in MS?

        "the development method du jour, Agile"

        Agile is not a development method. It is a method for selling training courses.

        To achieve this, it needs to contain some obvious common sense, such as "try testing as soon as you have something to test, if not earlier", and some other stuff to catch your attention, such as "don't make any plans for version 2 coz you'd only need that if version 1 doesn't bomb in the marketplace". Obviously, with more than half a century of programming experience to draw on, there is very little overlap between the two categories.

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

  15. herman Silver badge

    Vista anyone? Anyone?

    I think the purpose of Win10 is to make WinME and Vista look better.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Vista anyone? Anyone?

      Kubuntu doesn't look too shabby either.

      1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

        Re: Vista anyone? Anyone?

        Kubuntu doesn't look too shabby either

        Initially I read that as "Kabuki doesn't look too shabby either"..

        I think my nightly watching of the current Sumo basho[1] is getting to me..

        Go Takayasu[2]! Go Tochinoshin!

        [1] Many years ago we used to get it on one of the random channels on Swindon Cable. And, when they dropped it, via VHS tapes.. It's now on NHK HD as a nightly half-hour highlight programme whenever there's a basho on.

        [2] AKA 'Butterball' (according to Mrs COCM)

        1. Ozumo

          Re: Vista anyone? Anyone?

          Surely Chiyomaru is "Butterball".

          And Tochinoshin is getting careless. Not getting the left outer early enough.

        2. DanceMan
          Thumb Up

          Re: the current Sumo basho

          Can be seen on NHK World live streaming (search those words) at the appropriate times four times daily.

          The daily highlights are about 20 minutes, followed by Sumopedia for about 5 minutes, which explains things for new people.

          Watched today's at work on Pale Moon in Linux Mint Mate, on an old X61t Thinkpad. Very interesting basho this time.

    2. James O'Shea Silver badge

      @herman Re: Vista anyone? Anyone?

      No, the purpose is to make Microsoft Bob look better. And it's working.

    3. jelabarre59 Silver badge

      Re: Vista anyone? Anyone?

      I think the purpose of Win10 is to make WinME and Vista look better.

      And ReactOS.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Testing on various flavours of W10 hardware

    Surface pro 2 and 4, Dell 4480, Lenovo T430i, all work perfectly ok. Some with and some without Bitlocker.

    Having login scripts that remove and remap network drives seems to help.

  17. SVV Silver badge

    Try it out before you deploy it on a system you rely on

    Other people are doing that for us all, which is why nobody with any sense will install it on a system they rely on (or "use" as I prefer to say).

    I like how on every one of these Win 10 update horror story threads, there's always one "well I installed it and everything works for me" post, as if that somehow negates the actual disastrous consequences being described in the article.

  18. LenG

    Poor advice

    "All in all, try it out before you deploy it on a system you rely on"

    Do you really think I am masochistic enough to have more than one M$ system in my home?

  19. HKmk23

    I have had enough

    I have taken all my pcs off the internet except one W10 which is not connected to my network. All the others (five) have been rebuilt to Windows 7 professional sp1. This give me back control and Micro###t can no longer force updates, screw my systems, or any of their other "advantages".... when and if they manage to develop a computer system for us the users (known as customers) instead of the coffee klatch at Redmond'a wank tank I may try again.

    1. John 104

      Re: I have had enough

      @HKmk23

      I have had enough

      I have taken all my pcs off the internet except one W10 which is not connected to my network. All the others (five) have been rebuilt to Windows 7 professional sp1. This give me back control and Micro###t can no longer force updates, screw my systems, or any of their other "advantages".... when and if they manage to develop a computer system for us the users (known as customers) instead of the coffee klatch at Redmond'a wank tank I may try again.

      Clearly you haven't had enough. If you had, you would have put Linux on there or bought a Mac. You are getting close, though

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: I have had enough

      "the coffee klatch at Redmond'a wank tank"

      Ah, THAT's who they have "testing" nowadays, is it?

  20. adam payne Silver badge

    a bug it knew was present in Windows, but chose not to fix in the re-release of build 1809. It suggests setting up script files, scheduled tasks, or changing the group policy settings. That said, these may not last beyond a reboot, and could need to be reapplied.

    No, no and no.

    I am not messing around with workarounds for a problem that shouldn't be there. You knew it was there and should have resolved it before releasing the patch again.

    Microsoft says it'll sort out the issues "in the 2019 timeframe."

    You think fixing it next year is reasonable time frame, who are you trying to kid?

    1. David Nash Silver badge

      What does "in the 2019 timeframe" mean that they couldn't have said with "in 2019"?

      1. jelabarre59 Silver badge

        What does "in the 2019 timeframe" mean that they couldn't have said with "in 2019"?

        That's because MS wants to define "2019-timeframe" as the 650 day period starting 01-Jan-2019.

        1. A.P. Veening

          2019-Timeframe

          Only 650 days? I make it 1096 (until 01-Jan-2022).

      2. Ken Hagan Gold badge

        -- What does "in the 2019 timeframe" mean that they couldn't have said with "in 2019"?

        It means the press release was shat out by a fully qualified telephone sanitisation operative. It's kinda helpful in a way. You can tell just by skimming that you needn't pay any attention to anything else the idiot says.

  21. Alan Sharkey

    I am a home user

    and I have 5 network drives (to different areas of my NAS) and 5 subst'ed drives. They all seem to be OK in 1803 but I did have an issue for a while with one of my networked drives having a red X. It went away after a small update some time ago.

    I would like the 1809 update purely so I can respond to text messages on my PC - but it's not worth blowing away my network drives just for that.

  22. bobjimwhit

    In our house there are, all told, seven P.C's. running Windows 10 plus one Server 2010 and one Linux machine.

    The Windows ones never give problems ,

    The server one, I have no idea because I don't use it.

    The Linux one occasionally crashes and as no-one knows anything about Linux, we have to call my son over to fix it.

    Windows works for the vast, VAST majority of people. I don't know how many people complain about it, but you won't find any here.

    And it cost nothing...Did you buy Windows 7, well ever since then its been a free give away..

    All the computers in the house are regularly upgraded, No.1 son gets the latest and all the hardware moves down the family untill I get the last hand me down..

    I am currently running i7 devils canyon, 16mb Ram, 960SSd, ATI 7970 in eyefinnity with six screens......windows never lets us down

    If you don't like it, stop moaning and try something else...best of luck with that then.

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      "And it cost nothing...Did you buy Windows 7, well ever since then its been a free give away. All the computers in the house are regularly upgraded, ..."

      If you've actually bought a new computer in the last year or two then you have bought Windows 10, but you weren't paying attention and so they could charge whatever they liked as long as it was bundled with the hardware.

      If you've been more careful and consistently upgraded existing machines that came with Win7 a long time ago, then you've probably broken the terms of the Win7 licence, because OEM licences are tied to whatever hardware they were bundled with.

      If you bought Win7 Pro all those years ago, you're legal, but you've paid far more than it and all its successors put together are actually worth.

    2. georgezilla

      " ... If you don't like it, stop moaning and try something else...best of luck with that then. ... "

      Just to let you know, I'm taking your advise ....

      Wait a sec ......

      Hang on ......

      Let me look at something ......

      OOPS!!

      Sorry, I just can't take your advise.

      Seems that I "tried" something else in 1998. And have apparently been using it every day sense then.

      In 1998 it was named Slackware. In 2018 it's named opensuse leap 15. You may know it as Linux.

      It works(ed) on everything I've ever installed it on. I've fixed it easily ( on my own, usually within a hour ) when by some chance it breaks ( Usually my own fault. Seems that I keep sticking my fingers into things. Freedom does that you know). It gets updated ONLY when I want ( a couple times a week if needed ), and only what I want to have updated.

      The last time an update "borked" anything was ......

      Ummmm ..........

      Huhhh ......

      Oh like ......

      Oops.

      So long ago that I can't remember when it actually was.

      So thank you for your concern and advise. But I think that I will just stay with what "just works" ( to barrow a phrase ), and keep using Linux.

    3. dbtx Bronze badge

      Re: I am currently running

      16mb of Ram? Are you sure that's not 16MB of L3 cache or something else a bit more raisinable?

      OTOH, if you can even get a Windows install DVD to run on 16MB, then you can probably get anything to work. Then of course you will have trouble understanding other people's troubles.

      Keep in mind that every Random Problem Generator (incl. mine!) will work just often enough to get us to keep using it, so it can keep right on ****ing with us. Just realize it's all a crap shoot anyway, count yourself lucky, and be even more cautious in the future.

  23. Jay Lenovo Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Microsoft Calculator 1810

    Results can now be displayed in units of "close enough".

  24. tallenglish

    Tried it

    Got to 25% for me and gave up.

    At least it didn't delete anything (except itself), although I was smart enough to do a full backup just in case it decided it didn't like VMware or Bitlocker.

    Think they need to hand testing back to the humans as this new AI doesn't seem to be working at all.

  25. Howard Hanek Bronze badge
    Childcatcher

    Mission Impossible

    "Bill Gates has been found guilty of crimes against humanity. Your mission Mr. Phelps is to unravel the giant bowl of spaghetti sitting in Redmond, WA and lift the oppression plaguing billions worldwide. As usual the Secretary will disavow any action......while he shorts their stock"

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: Mission Impossible

      If Bill Gates were still running the show, this wouldn't be happening. It speaks volumes (mostly about the people he left in charge) that people still associate him with the company.

  26. Marty McFly
    Facepalm

    Beta testers

    In the old school, the first adopters with the last beta testers.

    In the new school, the first adopters are the only testers.

  27. JohnFen Silver badge

    That's "improved quality" for you!

    Microsoft should have known not to jinx themselves by bragging that they've improved their update quality. Particularly when that was an obvious lie even before this new update.

  28. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    I had an email from someone the other day saying he'd had some IT problems and had I received his previous email because I he hadn't had a reply (I'd received it but hadn't got round to sorting out material for the reply). I didn't stick my head above the parapet by asking what his problems were but I noticed his emails have the sig "Sent from Mail for Windows 10."

  29. AdamWill

    Q&A?

    "Microsoft says it'll sort out the issues "in the 2019 timeframe." That stunning Redmond Q&A at work again, we guess."

    Er. Ahem.

    1) It's "QA", as in "quality assurance". Not "Q&A", as in "questions and answers".

    2) QA's job is to find the bugs, not fix them. Thus QA did its job just fine, it seems, since Microsoft knew about the bug. If dev decided not to fix it, that's all dev's problem. ;)

  30. DerekCurrie Bronze badge
    FAIL

    AND...

    Many of us in the Windows 10 Insider program are still being prompted to 'Activate Windows' ad nauseam. None of Microsoft's patches, tools or tips solve the problem. Annoying. Microsoft. (0_o)

  31. Someone Else Silver badge

    All I want for Christmas is...

    ...a way to disable (and I mean really disable) Windows updates.

    And a way to disable (and I mean really and permanently disable) Windows Slurp. But that might be considered greedy, and this being Christmas.... Maybe for Valentine's day?

  32. Ian Johnston Silver badge

    What I would really, really like to know is why Microsoft updates are so grindingly slow. A really big Ubuntu update might be 500M, including a new kernel, and once it's downloaded it takes five or ten minutes to install. Similarly sized Windows updates seem to require hours - literally - of disk grinding. Why?

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Windows updates seem to require hours

      "Similarly sized Windows updates seem to require hours - literally - of disk grinding. Why?"

      A lack of PROPER write cacheing is probably a big part of it. Linux has an efficient journaling file system AND supports some pretty aggressive write cacheing, especially when you compare it to what Micro-shaft does [what I call 'paranoid' cacheing].

      Second would be "the Registry" in general. What started out as a simple replacement for INI files [which it was better than, mostly] turned into "that" over a period of years, once OLE and "all of those embeddable things you will never use" and then ".Not" happened.

      EVERYTHING I have seen in EVERY windows version that supports "the Registry" tells me that it's "paranoid cached" to the maximum possible extent; that is, it seems to physically RE-READ everything, even if no changes have been made, and appears to do a physical disk write EVERY TIME you change ANYTHING, even the most trivial thing. I could easily be wrong about that, having NOT seen the internals of it, but performance measurements SUGGEST that I am RIGHT about it.

      If the registry were treated by the kernel like a transaction-based system, this wouldn't be a problem. it would act like EVERY RELATIONAL DATABASE does when you have simultaneous queries and updates. This kind of tech has been around a long time and MS has their OWN relational database to use as a clue on how to implement something like that.

      But, NOOoooo... "the Registry" CONTINUES to be a road block for performance, BOTH READ AND WRITE performance, making application loading take longer, and making INSTALLS and UPDATES take longer, too.

      </rant>

  33. Dan 55 Silver badge

    Are people getting fired over this?

    If they are, they're the wrong people, because it's still happening.

  34. planetzog

    I have found the perfect OS for my desktop and laptop. It doesn't crash, it does what an OS should do, my computers are lightning fast, and I'm not plagued with endless hassle with updates, security issues, and bugs. It's called......... Windows 7.

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I've upgraded most of my stuff to linux, for the rest that won't work I've upgraded from windows 10 to windows 7.

    All that's left on windows 10 are games. I've joined the insider program so I can rant at them about how crap it is. I even had to do a fresh install to achieve that.....

    1. conscience
      Linux

      @AC "All that's left on windows 10 are games."

      If they are Steam games, have a look at Steam Play. Using a Valve-enhanced version of WINE called Proton, you can now run your 'Windows only' games on Linux directly from the Linux Steam client. There's a whitelist of tested to be 100% compatible games, and Valve are working their way the entire back catalogue of 'Windows only' games so eventually they'll all 'just work' right 'out of the box' on Linux.

      If you are one of the many gamers that is totally fed up of Microsoft and Windows, it's the perfect answer and it doesn't require any technical knowledge, special configuration or any other messing about.

      All you have to do is enable the Steam client Beta from the settings, and then the whitelisted titles are shown in the Linux Steam client and can be installed with a single click. If a game you want to play isn't on the whitelist yet then you can turn on 'enable all games' for Steam Play from the settings and try your luck. Personally I've found many of the games that are not yet on the whitelist already work just fine, but YMMV depending on the game.

      Enabling Steam Play couldn't be easier:

      1.Click On Steam (in steam client, top left corner)

      2.Click On Settings

      3.Click On Account

      4.You'll see a button that says "change" below Beta Participating

      5.Select Steam Beta Update

      6.You are all done

  36. Bandit8623

    sound blaster audio

    new build breaks my microphone . basicly unusable. 1803 was just fine.

  37. bigtreeman

    second screen

    Handling a second screen has new features after update.

    Anyone else ?

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