back to article Hands up who isn't p!*$ed off about Amazon's new HQ in New York and Virginia?

If regulators ever do get around to reining in the ecommerce steamroller that is Amazon, this week's announcement of his new headquarters may be the spark. For years, companies selling online have complained about being screwed over by Amazon: forced to play by its rules; pressured into massive discounts; coerced into letting …

  1. Keef

    It just proves...

    Most elected officials/politicians are just in in for themselves and are mostly stupid.

    Most business people are just in it for themselves and are a bit less stupid than people who got elected to a position.

    I use the word 'most' in both cases because there are exceptions, not all that many though.

    1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      Re: It just proves...

      From the Atlantic's article:-

      Thus a state with declining wages for many public-school teachers could wind up paying more than $500,000 per net new Foxconn job

      States have bigger problems. There's wage pressure from public sector workers, especially if an influx of new jobs leads to gentrification, rising rents and other living costs (Hello, San Fran!) and pressure on public schools & other infrastructure. And then to top that, massive pension liabilities or just finding money to patch up potholes.

      So the residents will pick up the tab for massive displays of corporate welfare on the slim possibility that the move will create wealth to cover the costs. And given the tax breaks that get offered, those won't come from the corporates themselves. But other than risking re-election, the politicians doling out the welfare have no skin in the game, other than perhaps finding future consulting/lobbying gigs or help with fund raising.

      And in Amazon's case, it's perhaps a little less palatable given it's effect on traditional US retailers, with the corresponding loss of jobs.. Which then leads to declining tax receipts and increased welfare costs. I don't know what the solution would look like, other than perhaps collusion to no-bid these types of deals. Or I guess you could try contractually writing in state benefits, ie if Foxconn or Amazon promise thousands of jobs, but don't deliver, they pay. The deals do often seem to be very bad business for the states that 'win' these deals though.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well yeah, duh

    NY for finance and VA for intelligence community.

    1. Mayday Silver badge
      Black Helicopters

      Re: Well yeah, duh

      "VA"

      JEDI (and future friends) maybe?

    2. Ian Michael Gumby Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: Well yeah, duh

      Not necessarily.

      Its a question of who ponied up a ton of tax incentives.

      Financial markets... NYC/NJ, Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, etc .... So there's no need to be in NY for that.

      Government? If VA is so important, what did a certain 'No Such Agency' open up a data center in Utah?

      The funny thing... you're not going to find a single plot in most cities that can house 50K people or cities that can absorb the influx. I said most, but in Chicago, you could. There's one plot down the road from me. It would have been the best location because of location of transportation where you can live 20 miles away and still have an easy commute. (Metra) then private bus or walk to campus.

      The only thing that needs to be in VA are lobbyists.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Well yeah, duh

        The NSA thing in Utah is a data center, these are clearly not. That was about cheap power and cooling, this is about having 10's of thousands of workers located to hobnob with the various HQ personnel of Amazon's various masters/partners in crime. CIA HQ, Goldman HQ, JPM HQ...

        See also "revolving door"... Bureaucrats and executives prefer to move up the food chain without having to move.

  3. JohnFen Silver badge

    *raises hand*

    I'm not pissed off about it. This is an issue I could not possibly care less about. If I lived in those places, though, I'd likely be a bit upset.

    1. Glen 1 Bronze badge

      Re: *raises hand*

      After reading your comment: For a moment, I thought I'd wandered into a brexit tort

      1. JohnFen Silver badge

        Re: *raises hand*

        I don't understand what you're saying here -- are you approving or disapproving of my comment?

    2. Mark 85 Silver badge

      Re: *raises hand*

      Exactly.. my state didn't bite and so my taxes won't go up. It really is a corporate world and governments just pay out taxpayer money for them. I can see it for roads, infrastructure, but basically it's become a bribe that's paid to the corporate bottom line.

  4. bombastic bob Silver badge
    Meh

    I wish they'd do that for SMALL businesses...

    except that corporate welfare and LIBERAL donors [and their mega-corporations] go hand-in-hand...

    it's easier to influence a small number of people running a BIG company, than a bunch of people running SMALL companies, to "donate" to campaigns of politicians that delivered the goods.

    THAT, and the potential of manipulation going on.

    /me not relying on GUMMINT for my success. nope. FAT CHANCE getting anything FROM gummint, anyway. All they do is TAKE, and give to those who do NOT deserve it.

    1. Gene Cash Silver badge

      Re: I wish they'd do that for SMALL businesses...

      They won't do it for small businesses because they're SMALL and can't promise (and not deliver) hundreds of jobs and lots of tax payments like the huge mega-corps.

      I don't see this as bad. Amazon did a shrewd business move with this "contest" and it's not their fault the cities fell all over themselves with handouts.

      I know Orlando only offered $400m and a bit of land and honestly wasn't that interested. We've already got Mauswitz, er, Duckau, um, Disney as the local Boss Tweed.

    2. Glen 1 Bronze badge

      Re: I wish they'd do that for SMALL businesses...

      Bob sometimes your posts are really funny.

      Change the word LIBERAL for CONSERVATIVE and your post still stands.

      Its almost as if someones LIBERAL or CONSERVATIVE-ness has nothing to do with it.

      (Except for WHICH mega-corporations get the PORK. Which is why its easier to buy off both than to pick a side)

    3. Wade Burchette

      Re: I wish they'd do that for SMALL businesses...

      This is not a liberal or conservative thing. The US has the best government money can buy, and both political parties are bought and paid for by corporate donors. If the democrat politicians complaining about this (and they are right to complain) get a huge political donation from Amazon, they would change their attitude immediately, guaranteed.

    4. MonkeyCee Silver badge

      Re: I wish they'd do that for SMALL businesses...

      "/me not relying on GUMMINT for my success. nope. FAT CHANCE getting anything FROM gummint, anyway. All they do is TAKE, and give to those who do NOT deserve it."

      Yeah, I pay my bloody taxes, and all I get is safety, security and infrastructure. Healthcare too, but YMMV on that.

      I have friends and neighbors who have fled warzones. They can give you a VERY long list of things that they are grateful to the GUMMINT for. Starting with not rounding them up and shooting them.

      Mainly the government ensures that you can live in the wealthiest 20% of the worlds population.

      Oh, and corporate welfare is total bullshit, whatever your political ideology. Worst aspects of communism and market capitalism combined. It could work on a small scale, since stopping SMEs dying in the first five years is probably worth more than keeping any mega corp going.

      1. DougS Silver badge

        Corporate welfare is not "liberal"

        I guess you think Donald Trump and Scott Walker are liberals then. They are the ones who made that horrible deal with Foxconn that screwed Wisconsin taxpayers out of billions - and in that case they weren't tax incentives that's actual money Wisconsin is giving them. Walker didn't lose re-election by much, it is pretty obvious that bad deal is why he got booted from office. Unfortunately his successor won't be able to undo that deal.

        1. Ian Michael Gumby Silver badge

          Re: Corporate welfare is not "liberal"

          Foxcon isn't necessarily a bad deal.

          Foxcon wanted IL but IL is a mess. So they went over the border.

          The only real issue is Lake Michigan water supply.

  5. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

    Contract void?

    So, why are the two cities not withdrawing the offer if they are expected to still give the same amount for only half the Amazon investment? Were they so stupid as to agree a contract which allows Amazon to do what it likes while holding the "winning" cities strictly to the letter of contact agreement?

    1. Ian Michael Gumby Silver badge

      Re: Contract void?

      The discount is based on the number of jobs they actually bring in.

    2. Mongrel

      Re: Contract void?

      I reckon it's because Amazon did it much more brazenly than they wanted and as such shone a light on how deep the officials are in the pockets of the big corporations.

      It's only bad when they get caught doing it.

  6. Herby Silver badge

    They probably...

    Wouldn't have gotten such a "big deal" if they hadn't done the "competition". If they stated before hand we're doing HQ2 at ..., then there would be no incentive for the towns/states to give up anything.

    Amazon needed something to bargain against. If you are the only one playing the game, then you are the "lowest bidder" no matter what you price yourselves at. Two bidders makes a contest.

    They needed to "play the field" and they did it very well.

    Our local sillycon valley mayor of San Jose, said "no thanks", and passed. He probably saw the writing on the wall and decided that any response wasn't worth the effort. Others took the bait, and went through the motions and got nothing for their effort. Oh, well.

  7. Denarius Silver badge
    Meh

    about time

    all democracies or pretenders to the title abolish the political classes by abolishing self selecting organisations usually called political parties. The need to be bought, sorry, ask for donations then stops. Set 4 or 5 year terms for a single city or state council and replace the 20 or 25% as appropriate every year after 5 years. Select members by random ballot. Once having served time on council, citizens name is removed forever. No advertising, no point in targeting voters because there are none. Oh, and any use of public money cannot be in secret, NDA or protected by trade secrets nonesense. If the activity is funded by citizens, it is to be public knowledge. This applies to TLA so taxpayers can see what is being spent on empires, internal and external.

    1. imanidiot Silver badge

      Re: about time

      This just doesn't work. Not everybody is suitable for political work. Not all stuff politicians do and speak about can be public knowledge. Some of it is indeed privacy sensitive and needs to be kept secret. And you'd better pay the same or more as what they are currently making or some people will refuse. Threatening with jail time is not going to work either because no-one is going to a good job on a job they are forced to do. So everything gets half-arsed and "good enough"-ed. Which is a good way to even more mediocrity than we get now.

    2. strum Silver badge

      Re: about time

      >Select members by random ballot.

      ...and get inexperienced politicians the lobbyists can run rings round, and who haven't a clue how to put together a broad-based network of interlinked policies.

    3. tel130y

      Re: about time

      And then you woke up....

  8. FozzyBear Silver badge
    WTF?

    If these big businesses can make the elected muppets sing and dance like that on the off chance that they may relocate their headquarters. it tells you in no uncertain terms who really rules the world.

  9. cd

    I saw them for the bag of dicks they are back when free shipping was purposely delayed by waiting a week to ship. Since then rarely use them. I do maybe one order a year, stuff unavailable elsewhere and with no deadline, so they aren't twisting my arm with their delay game.

    Corporate subsidies should be abolished. "Let the market decide" is like saying "let the drunk guy drive" but if that's what they want let's give it to them, especially when it hurts.

  10. Eddy Ito Silver badge

    Crony capitalists* are happy

    Just to name a couple. There's Bill de Blasio and Andrew M. Cuomo who are as happy as a pair of eels screwing in a bucket of snot over the Amazon HQ2 (2-1/3, 2-7/16, sqrt(5)?) announcement.

    *Maybe capitalists is the wrong word, money grubbing bureaucrats?

    1. hplasm Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: Crony capitalists* are happy

      "*Maybe capitalists is the wrong word, money grubbing bureaucrats?"

      Whatever happened to 'Capatalist Running Dogs'?

      i quite like that one...

      /tiny writing rules...!

      1. JohnFen Silver badge

        Re: Crony capitalists* are happy

        "Whatever happened to 'Capatalist Running Dogs'?"

        I always thought that was "capitalist running pig-dogs."

        1. BGatez

          Re: Crony capitalists* are happy

          replaced with "a$$h0les" which about covers it

        2. Eddy Ito Silver badge

          Re: Crony capitalists* are happy

          Ah, I have the definitive word, it should be pwned bitches so says Amazon Cuomo.

          I can't help but wonder how he gets the brown off his nose and whether Bezos gets tired of washing Cuomo's lipstick off his penis.

  11. Jim Mitchell
    Alert

    As I heard it, "Seattle, New York City, and Washington DC" describes not just Amazon's HQs, current and future, but where Bezos has residences. Coincidence? Or was this conclusion foregone from the getgo?

    1. Eddy Ito Silver badge

      Ah, I detect the unmistakable scent of cold hard truth in that statement. Actually it's very strong and quite overwhelming with just a hint of napalm.

      Well done.

    2. Wade Burchette

      I wonder who owns the Washington Post ... hmm?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Better have my money

      Bezos, pimp of all government fools.

      Congratulations New York and Virginia for volunteering to pay for the privilege of becoming his B's

  12. FuzzyWuzzys Silver badge
    Facepalm

    A huge free PR exercise for Amazon

    The guy from New Jersey nailed it perfectly, you've all been played for suckers by Bezos and chums. You've played this up, hyped Amazon to the hilt and all this PR or free, I bet Amazon couldn't believe how well the plan worked! Jeez, what a bunch of rubes, ha ha!

  13. T. F. M. Reader Silver badge

    A billion here, a billion there...

    "Amazon is a billion-dollar company," [Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-14th district)] tweeted...

    Our American friends could be more careful with whom they elect to various posts.

    I understand Ms. Ocasio-Cortez is of Puerto-Rican descent, and in Puerto Rico they may use the "long scale" (10^9 = millardo or mil millones, 10^12 = billón) on occasion, but not, AFAIK, for economics or finance. However, she was born in the US, and her audience is American, and AMZN is a trillion-dollar company (well, it briefly was just a short while ago and is not far away now) on the American "short scale" (10^9 = billion, 10^12 = trillion).

    So, either the newly elected Representative doesn't know how big AMZN really is or she is at risk of being confused by budget numbers. Either option would look worrisome to me if I were American.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A billion here, a billion there...

      How can Amazon be a "trillion" dollar company if it's not a "trillion" dollar company? by your own explanation you have proved the woman of Puerto-Rican descent absolutely correct. They might have been a "trillion" dollar company but right now they are not and thus cannot be called a "trillion" dollar company.

      That's like me having £10 and then spending £2 on a spatula. I no longer have £10 and you can't call say I'm worth £10 either, I can however make some eggs for breakfast. Which is nice.

      1. Spazturtle Silver badge

        Re: A billion here, a billion there...

        "you can't call say I'm worth £10 either,"

        Yes you can, you have £8 in cash and £2 in spatulas, making £10 total.

    2. TomG

      Re: A billion here, a billion there...

      From some of the comments Ms. Cortez has made, she seems as smart(dumb) as a bag of rocks. She will be a millionaire by the end of her term as she will be easily bought.

    3. Trilkhai

      Re: A billion here, a billion there...

      I understand Ms. Ocasio-Cortez is of Puerto-Rican descent, and in Puerto Rico they may use the "long scale" ... So, either the newly elected Representative doesn't know how big AMZN really is or she is at risk of being confused by budget numbers. Either option would look worrisome to me if I were American.

      You know, there's a word for the practice of making assumptions about people based on their ancestry rather than on their own words & actions...

      1. LucreLout Silver badge

        Re: A billion here, a billion there...

        You know, there's a word for the practice of making assumptions about people based on their ancestry rather than on their own words & actions...

        How on earth did you jump to the race card based on the ponderings to which you responded?

        My view of the post to which you responded was that the poster was discussing something similar to this:

        https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/explore/how-many-is-a-billion/

        Geography might very well be relevant to the discussion, even if the poster may end up being wrong about American trillions vs Puerto Rican trillions.

        I understand Ms. Ocasio-Cortez is of Puerto-Rican descent, and in Puerto Rico they may use the "long scale"

        I've looked again and can't find anything suggestive that Puerto Ricans can't add up in the OP. Specifically which part of the post are you assuming is racism? I'm genuinely confused rather than looking for an argument.

    4. BGatez

      Re: A billion here, a billion there...

      Honestly as an expression of immense wealth a billion serves nicely. As an American I'm not especially worried by your nit picking nonsense. I think Brits have an expression for idiot compatriots, "f**kwits".

  14. eldakka Silver badge

    Elaborate?

    turns out instead to have been an elaborate scheme to drag the very best incentives out of cities where Amazon may have wanted to move from day one.

    Doesn't seem particularly elaborate to me. Perfectly straightforward and simple. Cunning would seem more like it.

  15. Mark 85 Silver badge

    Considering what Amazon pays it's employees versus what the State offered for "incentives" per employee, the States just paid Amazon's labor bills for awhile. The key I suppose is "how long does Amazon have to stay in the State and at what employment level?

  16. gekko

    The New York location is actually Long Island City, which is an area in the Borough of Queens, which is one of the five boroughs that make up New York City.

    1. Merrill

      I don't see Long island City being attractive for employees

      I've been to the building where Citi Corp is giving up 1 million square feet that Amazon will move into.

      I guess it is part of the attempt to redevelop the Queens and Brooklyn bank of the East River.

  17. 0laf Silver badge
    Facepalm

    I don't blame Amazon, it is a corporate entity evolved to hoover up cash and spit out profits. It played those idiot politicians like a fiddle.

    It speaks a breat deal about the vanity and stupidity of our elected officials and I mean that globally not just for the region in the story. The UK parliament and Brexit is another example of the patients taking over the asylum or The Dilbert Principle in action.

  18. Jonathon Green

    I like Americans, they’re funny...

    1. TomG

      We try to be.

  19. Simon B-52

    Improving psychiatry.

    The only person I know of who uses Alexa and One-click shopping suffers from serious mental illness and has to take several powerful medicines on a daily basis.

    Do readers have knowledge of other such cases? It would be interesting to see if there is a correlation.

    The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual used by psychiatrists would be much improved by the inclusion of objective and verifiable indicators such as these.

    1. LucreLout Silver badge

      Re: Improving psychiatry.

      The only person I know of who uses Alexa and One-click shopping suffers from serious mental illness and has to take several powerful medicines on a daily basis.

      Do readers have knowledge of other such cases? It would be interesting to see if there is a correlation.

      I use one click shopping all the time, but not Alexa. Most of the consumerist largely unneccesary shite that I buy these days comes from Amazon. As far as I know I've no mental illness; certainly I've never been diagnosed with anything. I supposed ADD or Aspergers are possibilities, but given my middle age, I'm assuming it's not likely.

      What I also get from Amazon though, is rather large increases in the market value of my stock portfolio.

  20. Stevie Silver badge

    Bah!

    Long Island City.

    Long Island (no city) means the whole fish.

  21. ma1010 Silver badge
    Mushroom

    The New Feudalism

    The 20th century, for all its horrors of war was the century of the common person. Workers won rights and actually won a living wage and a chance to have a good life. The self-styled elite have been fighting back and winning as we see life becoming harder and harder for average people while a small class of "one percenters" get richer and richer. Life today is a lot harder for the young just starting out than it was when I were a nipper - I'm glad I'm old. Back then we didn't have anything like the homeless population we have today. Back then, if you worked even a McJob, you could afford to rent a cheap apartment. Nowadays, some of the homeless work, but can't afford to rent anywhere to live. Remember when Seattle tried to put in a small tax on large businesses to help alleviate their homeless problem - and oh how did Amazon and Micro$oft scream about it so they rescinded it. After all, those multi billion dollar companies can't afford to pay any tax. Oh, dear me, no.

    I applaud those few in government who haven 't been bought out and are trying to push back against the Amazons and other corporate giants who want to restore feudalism and make the common people over into their serfs. It can be stopped. People need the same will they had back when labor unions were first getting started. We need to fight against this "all for the one percent" philosophy that's taking over not only America but much of the world. The Amazons, Wall-Marts and other such companies need unions to help their employees get a living wage and reasonable working conditions and end the practice of these companies hiring so many of their staff on a part-time basis so as to avoid paying benefits. And the governments need to help that happen and to see to it that these corporations pay their fair share of tax instead of getting "incentives" that shortchange the government and the people just so the one percenters like Bezos can bank a few extra tens of millions. I applaud the EU's efforts to get the Googles to pay up and wish it would happen here.

    Sorry for the rant, but what's going on these days really pisses me off. I don't mind corporations making profits, but they don't need to rake in all these billions, avoid paying any tax and crush their workers into poverty. There needs to be a balance, but it's getting more and more unbalanced nowadays.

    </rant>

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The New Feudalism

      So stop being such a pussy. Start your own company and show them how it's done. I'm sure you'll have it all sorted before time for tea.

    2. LucreLout Silver badge

      Re: The New Feudalism

      Before getting to rebutting the bits of your post I dsiagree with, let me just agree that I think the HQ2 thing was nonsense and as a capitalist, such state aid amounts to insanity.

      The self-styled elite have been fighting back and winning as we see life becoming harder and harder for average people while a small class of "one percenters" get richer and richer.

      Globally, living in the UK or USA, you are in the top one percent.

      Looking at the last IFS wealth study, many people with a house in the south east or a public sector pension are 1%ers. You need about USD 1M to hit the top 1%. Obviously, much like any bell curve, there's a huge difference between people in the outer extremes - the gap between someone at the bottom of the top 1% and someone at the top of the top 1% is many magnitudes greater than the gap between the person at the bttom of the top 1% and the most dirt poor person alive.

      Back then, if you worked even a McJob, you could afford to rent a cheap apartment.

      A 40 hour minimum wage job brings in £16286 a year. That's £1205 per month after tax, plus any benefits you're entitled to. It creates a mortgage and 10% deposit worth £60k. That's enough to buy a one bed place within 40 miles of almost any point in the country (I'll give you places like lands end due to geography may not hold true).

      We need to fight against this "all for the one percent" philosophy that's taking over not only America but much of the world.

      Fight if you must, but the war is lost. Basic mathematics ensures the top 1% will always get richer than those lower down the wealth spectrum, simply because their compound gains on assets will trump the whole income of those with low education low skill roles. I'll spend my time fighting to join the 1%ers, because its a lot more likely to happen than conjuring up ways to hold them back.

      see to it that these corporations pay their fair share of tax

      This whole concept is entirely debunked and was put to rest eons ago. Define fair. The problem is your idea of fair isn't my idea of fair and nor is it the next blokes. Everyone has different definitions and they have them for differing reasons too. There is no "fair".

      1. Preston Munchensonton

        Re: The New Feudalism

        @LucreLout, was totally with you until you posted this shite:

        Fight if you must, but the war is lost. Basic mathematics ensures the top 1% will always get richer than those lower down the wealth spectrum, simply because their compound gains on assets will trump the whole income of those with low education low skill roles. I'll spend my time fighting to join the 1%ers, because its a lot more likely to happen than conjuring up ways to hold them back.

        Basic mathematics ensures nothing. A quick review of the richest people in the world hardly shows that only the rich get richer. If anything, being rich doesn't seem to guarantee anything other than you are rich for a period of time, but no one can say how long. The sort of people in the top 1% aren't generally the sort of people that will just deposit their money in bonds and live off the interest, as you claim. Instead, they're actively risking their wealth, which tends to be tied up in the companies that they built.

        You've succomb to the numerous fallacies present in the works of Piketty and Stiglitz.

        1. LucreLout Silver badge

          Re: The New Feudalism

          Basic mathematics ensures nothing.

          As far as wrong statements go, this might be winner of the week.

          The sort of people in the top 1% aren't generally the sort of people that will just deposit their money in bonds and live off the interest, as you claim.

          I completely agree, which is why I made no such claim.

          Equally, they're the sort of people that have a lot of stuff - houses that cost a lot more than most, cars that cost more than most (and more of them), and other stuff, that they could sell if they went bust, and still remain in the top 1%.

          You've succomb to the numerous fallacies present in the works of Piketty and Stiglitz.

          Hardly. I'm a full blooded capitalist. It's the greatest game in town. Piketty started with his conclusion and then sought only evidence which backed it. A typical fallacy of the economically socialist left.

          According to the IFS, I'm in danger of being in the top 1% at the moment. I'm not sure I believe their numbers - apparently you only need 1 million USD of investable assets. Given how mobile most of my assets are, I've already taken steps to diversify away from the UK to protect against a potential far left government. As soon as McMao started talking about seizing 10% of the FTSE, I dumped it and put the money elsewhere. I'm up about 20% on that trade so far - it was more but the markets have had a wobble. Am I in danger of going bust or losing most of my wealth? Hardly.

          My point was that its going to be very dificult for anyone on minimum wage to catch up to me - I make too much passive income for that to happen. You've fallen for the trap of assuming I see that as a bad thing, when I don't. I used to earn way below minimum wage too, before there ever was one, and I managed to work my way up the earnings and wealth scale. There's nothing, literally nothing, holding back anyne else from doing as I did. They just have to stop investing their time in moaning about the system, and start spending their time understanding how it actually works.

  22. KronorWow

    I'm so glad Denver lost

    I moved to Denver about a year ago, and I'm so glad they "lost". Half of me was actually hoping they'd win just so my property values would go up, but then the rational part of me woke up and realized that our roads, infrastructure, and public transportation here are no match for something the size of an Amazon HQ (or half an HQ, as the case may be) moving into town.

    I'm more than happy to let New York and Virginia "win" this contest. My bet is that five or ten years after Amazon comes to town, they'll be regretting the decision to ever woo them in the first place.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You don't have to accept it (jobs, money, growth)

    If you dont like it, dont accept it. zero people twisted your arm to apply

    If Amazon opened it up again, 100s of cities would beg for it.

    If you want no growth, no jobs, and rust belt/coal industry... feel free to reject it. Other cities will gladly accept it. Government is trying to keep your city from becoming Detroit... but feel free to become Detroit if you want.

    Recession is around the corner... when it hits we will see how happy the losing cities are.

  24. schubb

    This is stupid city management, the "reverse RFP" as many appear to be calling it should have stated that the value of all said breaks, deferments, and benefits are conditional on being selected as the winning bidder of the entire project. Any changes to the allotment of the scope of the bid will be at most proportional to the amount of bid actually delivered to the city and may be further reduced depending on the scope.

    These people are business people and lawyers in many cases and had business people and lawyers go over this. They screwed up royally and hopefully learn a lesson.

  25. veti Silver badge

    Why are "tax breaks" even a thing?

    Look, laws are meant to be laws. That is to say, uniform for everyone. If they don't meet that basic test then they're not really "laws" at all, they're just "what some bod in a funny hat feels should be done today".

    So pass your (city/state/whatever) tax laws, and then enforce them. If someone wants to know what they can get for bringing a business to your city, point them at the already-published laws and tell them to start reading. And if that doesn't work out for your city, change the laws by all means - but change them for everyone.

    Anything else is just crony capitalism, which is essentially feudalism in a nice suit.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm really sick of this...

    Attitude of let's hate corporations and rich people just because. The idea that Amazon is killing small businesses because they cheat somehow is bull. Small businesses are dying because they mostly suck, while Amazon does their job well.

    I have a tarpaulin that needs replaced (white, 10x14). I bought it at Amazon. I had some spare time tonight, so I decided to shop locally. I went to Walmart, Lowe’s, Harbour Freight, and Don's place. Not only did NONE of them have white tarpaulins in ANY size, NONE of them had a 10x14, in ANY colour. What happened? I came home and click, click, click, ordered from Amazon. Because I HAD to.

    This is Amazon's fault?

    A month ago, I needed to buff some metal. Went to Lowe's. Buffing wheel? No problem, they have three kinds. Cool. Now buffing compound. Buffing compound? I was sent to paint then hardware then tools then to customer service. Buffing compound? I keep getting the deer in the headlight look. Ok, no problem, I'll go home and order it on line. Type buffing compound, get ITEM NOT FOUND. Click, click, click, ordered from Amazon. Because I HAD to. Lowe's sells buffing wheels but no buffing compound. They suck. If I never go there again, then...

    This is Amazon's fault?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'm really sick of this...

      This is also true.

      Bookstores rarely carry books that interest me (the 1000th boring bestseller ghostwritten memory by #npc_politician? While the really good stuff is behind the curtain of "wrongthink" or else "too technical for the hoi polloi"). I need to go to amazon's gift shop just to get my fix.

    2. John 62

      Amazon loves small businesses! *

      * I don't know about sales volume or whatever, but most stock listings on Amazon are from third parties who use Amazon's website for sales (same as eBay, and Facebook is trying to get into this as well, even Tesco and M&S online act as a shop-front for 3rd parties). So Amazon certainly wants small business to thrive so long as they carry the stock, take the brunt of any customer complaints, but most importantly, as long as they don't compete with its core business.

  27. DanceMan

    My son sent me this link:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/amazon-h2q-bidding-process-gave-the-company-priceless-data-on-cities-how-will-it-be-used/

    It details the data Amazon sucked out of these cities through this bidding process. Sheds yet another light on this travesty.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      But Amazon is not Google.

      1. John 62

        BANG (BAiNG?)

        Sorry, just had to when I saw that and it brought to mind Bing Is Not Google.

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