back to article Microsoft points to a golden future where you can make Windows 10 your own

Microsoft has announced that its customers will finally be able to remove more of the cruft that arrives with a Windows 10 installation. In 2019. While Slow and Release Preview ring Windows Insiders got to experience Redmond’s latest efforts to stabilise the troubled OS, Fast ring and Skippy testers got their hands on a fresh …

  1. msknight Silver badge

    What about the stuff that we really don't want...

    Like Xbox Live.

    And the store. That is utterly useless as well.

    (gets out the registry hack text file)....

    3D Builder

    Communications pps

    Skype App

    Zune Music

    Zune video

    Windows maps

    Bing Finance

    Bing News

    Bing Sports

    One Note

    Should I just dump my entire Windows 10 crap booting file here?

    Cortana can't be removed but I SO want to give that the heave ho.

    1. malle-herbert Silver badge
      Big Brother

      Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

      You forgot all the telemetry stuff....

      1. Teiwaz Silver badge

        Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

        You forgot all the telemetry stuff....

        msknight bends the knee to the barons in redmond.

      2. Daniel von Asmuth Bronze badge
        Headmaster

        Re: What about the stuff that the EU doesn't want?

        Does this Windows still come with the mandatory screen where the luser can choose whether to install Opera, Firefox, Chrome, or Edge Explorer?

    2. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

      OneNote, and the Bing stuff can be uninstalled with a simple right click > uninstall.

      I'm not sure if you're joking about the Zune stuff, but it's not installed on mine so it was either never there, or succumbed to the same quick uninstall method.

      1. msknight Silver badge

        Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

        I wasn't joking about the Zune stuff... but the long story short is that early on, I went on a trawl of uninstall scripts, and anything that was listed, that I didn't like, I copied into one long removal script.

        I did forget about the telemetry stuff. We're on, "basic," but hopefully the firewalls are stopping all that from going anywhere.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

          > We're on, "basic," but hopefully the firewalls are stopping all that from going anywhere.

          If you're meaning a Windows firewall then "good luck with that".

          1. msknight Silver badge

            Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

            > If you're meaning a Windows firewall then "good luck with that".

            Nope, but I can't detail firewall configurations for obvious reasons :-)

      2. overunder

        Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

        All of you assholes wan't to destroy the best things of the most vestal experience any operating system can offer.

        Sure, I don't use OneDrive, but I like to be reminded I have the option a couple times a day. And Cortana, she just constantly reminds me of the things that are now possible in this modern epic, through random unrelated pop-ups (but bless her heart, she's trying).

        I'm just glad that all of you using this omega O.S. are having your little childish actions reported back to Olympus, where you WILL be judged unknowingly.

        1. Mark Manderson

          Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

          @overunder

          oh shoosh Satya Nadella, we know its you! ;o)

          id just like to uninstall the abomination called Cortana easily, i dont need a PC to tell me shit im capable of looking/remembering in a to do list (in my head)

        2. N2 Silver badge

          Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

          wan't ?

      3. NoneSuch
        Facepalm

        Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

        @phuzz

        "OneNote, and the Bing stuff can be uninstalled with a simple right click > uninstall."

        That just removes the shortcut from your profile. Anyone else who logs in on that PC still has that program there.

        Taking out the crap will remove 2+ GB of files. Why an Enterprise version of Windows needs XBox and Zune is beyond me.

        If they did remove the bloatware, Windows gets closer to being an actual operating system instead of a large scale vendor browser banner.

        1. jacmorgan

          Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

          I actually use the xbox stuff, but not for xbox... it turns out that "xbox live" is what Microsoft calls a screen recorder these days, so it's mildly useful for making videos of your screen/interactions.

    3. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

      @msknight

      well said!

    4. MJI Silver badge

      Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

      How do I install Aero theme with 3D windows?

      As to that list.

      But I have a Playstation!

      What do you do with a Zune?

      How about us 4mm / foot modellers? Why do German tin plate collectors get special treatment?

    5. N2 Silver badge

      Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

      Which re-appears at the next update

      Best policy is to uninstall everything

      1. Delbert

        Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

        Yes indeedy, spending a cathartic half an hour deleting the irrelevances and then seeing it reinstalled was the final straw that caused a clean install of Windows 7 the OS you actually want.

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

          >a clean install of Windows 7 the OS you actually want.

          Well many were quite happy with XP and moved to 7 with some reluctance. (*)

          (*) Yes, I know XP has many security flaws and other limitations addressed in newer editions, but to many it is the UI/UX of both using the system and living with the on-going updates that defines whether an OS is good or not.

          1. Pirate Dave
            Pirate

            Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

            "Well many were quite happy with XP and moved to 7 with some reluctance."

            I still miss Win2k. Such a nice, clean UI, with things where they should be.

            1. jelabarre59 Silver badge

              Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

              I still miss Win2k. Such a nice, clean UI, with things where they should be.

              Exactly. Up through MSWin7 you could still get the nice clean UI back by disabling the "Themes" service. MSWin8 & beyond put an end to that.

              Now if "replacement shells" were still a workable option, would like to use Cinnamon as the MSWin UI.

          2. macjules Silver badge

            Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

            @ Roland6

            If you had come to Windows 7 via the Windows Vista route then you would have fallen crying with relief at seeing Windows 7 install and start up.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

        Which re-appears at the next update

        Best policy is to uninstall everything MSWINDOWS

        There, FTFY.

    6. steviebuk Silver badge

      Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

      Cortana can't be removed but you can disabled it. The dicks appears to turn it back on when there is a new build thought

      Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

      [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Windows Search]

      "AllowCortana"=dword:00000000

    7. Tigra 07 Silver badge
      Linux

      Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

      I uninstalled the Windows from my Windows. And my Windows became Kubuntu...Never looked back...

      1. Portent

        Re: What about the stuff that we really don't want...

        That's exactly what I did. Also running Kubuntu and also not looking back. I genuinely now prefer it to Windows for everything except games (and many of those now run under Steam's Proton).

  2. Stoneshop Silver badge
    Linux

    Deinstall parts of W10?

    I've found that not installing it at all saved me all that hassle.

    1. Sebastian A

      Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

      I'm holding on to Win7 for now, but what's everyone else planning to do in Jan 2020? Just hold on and hope no further massive holes are found? What about new hardware? I fear 10 is gonna be unavoidable, at least if you wanna be able to play games.

      1. Dave K Silver badge

        Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

        As a Windows 7 user, I'm playing it by ear at the moment. I do continue to play around with test builds of Windows 10 from time to time on a spare laptop, so options are (if you need to stick with Windows):

        * Windows 10 LTSB with hacks to remove the telemetry - might be good as it automatically doesn't include most of the crap and doesn't get the "feature" updates, but some apps won't play ball with it (MS famously blocks later Office from LTSB), plus it's only available in pirated form because MS won't sell it to none-VL customers.

        * Windows 10 standard with various 3rd party tools to wrestle control of updates, block telemetry, replace the awful Start Menu with one that doesn't suck etc. A possible option, but an almighty faf, and will still involve dreaded feature updates from time to time.

        * Windows 8.1 - it's supported until 2023, but does look awfully flat, and requires 3rd party tools to replace the godawful Start screen.

        It's a toughy as there isn't really a good option. But for now, I've still got 14 months of support for Windows 7, hence I intend to enjoy 14 more months of having a clean, dependable and well-designed OS until I'm forced into the painful world of MS's later offerings.

        1. Spazturtle Silver badge

          Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

          "MS famously blocks later Office from LTSB"

          You probably want to use the LTSB of Office if you are on the LTSB of Windows anyway.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

          "[...] until I'm forced into the painful world of MS's later offerings."

          I'm not moving from W7 (and a reserve of XP) for my few remaining Windows applications - most of which do not need to go online.

          I have hoarded a few W7 licences unused - so I can set up a VM image that doesn't matter if a clone gets infected and discarded. Also have a few spare motherboards for when W7 can't support new versions of hardware.

          In parallel I will continue moving what I can to Linux Mint.

          That should last me out.

          1. aks

            Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

            All safe in your bunker under the Rocky Mountains? ;)

          2. Wayland Bronze badge

            Re: Deinstall parts of W10? + Mint and W7

            I'm doing the same thing. I'm on Mint 19 on RYZEN with Windows XP VirtualBox.

            By the way Windows 7 64 works fine on RYZEN but you need to slipstream the drivers into your Windows 7 install USB stick.

        3. Waseem Alkurdi

          Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

          plus it's only available in pirated form because MS won't sell it to none-VL [sic] customers.

          No need. You can get Enterprise Evaluation LTSB from Microsoft itself then rearm the trial 3 times for 90 days * 3, and reformat after that (because a Windows machine desperately needs it after 9 months) (other hacks for EnterpriseEval possibly available).

          And it's legit because you're not using cracks or anything, you're, ahem, evaluating.

      2. DropBear Silver badge

        Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

        "I'm holding on to Win7 for now, but what's everyone else planning to do in Jan 2020? "

        Nothing. Updates were of no concern to any windows computer I ever had so far, starting from DOS. Over two decades of absolutely zero problems caused by that, I think I can manage a little longer. Especially considering I'm in the process of moving over to Mint anyway - at least as soon as it remembers how to check for and notify about new mail that isn't Google's.

        As for gaming - I'm not excluding that it might come to Win10 being unavoidable for that at some point. Being a stubborn but first and foremost practical person, if that ever happens I'll just install it onto what will never be more than an empty hardware shell as far as it is concerned. I'll encrypt all other partitions and Win10 will not get a key; it will never see a single email, document or picture of mine; and it will connect out through its own empty VLAN walled off from absolutely anything else I have on my LAN. But that's in the far future, maybe - the near one has no Win10 in any way shape or form in it for me.

        1. MJI Silver badge

          Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

          Gaming.

          Another reason Console gaming stays strong, no need to deal with Microsoft products.

          1. Patrician

            Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

            Erm, isn't an XBox an MS product?

            1. MJI Silver badge

              Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

              But there are other companies doing games machines.

              Nintendo & Sony

          2. JohnFen Silver badge

            Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

            Unless your gaming console is from Microsoft.

          3. Spotswood

            Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

            Ummm. XBOX?

        2. Waseem Alkurdi

          Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

          @DropBear

          "Updates were of no concern to any windows computer I ever had so far, starting from DOS. Over two decades of absolutely zero problems caused by that"

          Either that you're extremely lucky or that we all are damned for some reason.

          1. JohnFen Silver badge

            Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

            "Either that you're extremely lucky or that we all are damned for some reason."

            Or he actually engages in safe computing practices (something very few people do anymore, it seems).

          2. DropBear Silver badge

            Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

            @Waseem Alkurdi admittedly, my router stops anything incoming "at the gates", and I have a habit of not clicking of fishy stuff. I can't guarantee this to work for everybody, but it honestly did work for me all these years - and trust me, I visit a _shitload_ of websites of, uh, questionable integrity. Naturally, I cannot _guarantee_ I'm not infected, but considering the level of paranoia I'm comfortable admitting to, I find it seriously unlikely. That said, I really mean it - no Windows machine I ever installed ever saw any updates, and they're still fine - if nothing else, Clam AV / Malwarebytes / Avast / Bitdefender / Spybot S&D would have spotted _something_ by now; but none of them ever did.

        3. Wayland Bronze badge

          Re: Deinstall parts of W10? Gaming on Mint 19 Steam

          DropBear,

          Linux gaming took a massive leap forward when Steam included a version of WINE called Proton. I've built a RYZEN system with a decent AMD GPU and installed the latest AMDGPU-PRO which uses Vulkan, the driver which will solve all the Linux gaming problems one day.

      3. JohnFen Silver badge

        Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

        "I fear 10 is gonna be unavoidable, at least if you wanna be able to play games."

        The games thing isn't as much of a problem as it used to be, but it's still a problem if you're into the latest AAA games. But there's an easy way around this: have a Windows machine that is used exclusively for your games, and a different, non-Windows machine for everything else. Or dual boot.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

          Or even triple boot. Linux mint, windows 7 and windows 10 here. All on separate ssd's so when windows 10 does a mega update I turn off the other drives from the bios so it can't stuff them up.

          1. MJI Silver badge

            Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

            Home PC is XP Mint 7

      4. jelabarre59 Silver badge

        Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

        I'm holding on to Win7 for now, but what's everyone else planning to do in Jan 2020?

        Continue using Linux Mint, as I am right now.

        Or, if you like, ReactOS is actually approaching a base usability now. Not sure it would play any intensive games, but Wine under Linux is getting better in that area.

      5. Someone Else Silver badge

        @Sebastian A -- Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

        Just hold on and hope no further massive holes are found?

        First thing you do is ignore the FUD. Then you simply practice safe computing. I've been running an XP installation for over a decade, without problems, or "security updates". NoScript is your friend....

        What about new hardware?

        Well, if you put new hardware on your machine, even Win7 will bitch at you. If you put on really new hardware, even Win10 will choke without appropriate drivers that may or may not work. What new hardware are you talking about? A newer bigger disk. More RAM? A new scanner? ...

    2. Zakhar
      Linux

      Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

      And possibly an option to not pay it at all with every new PC we buy when we want to not install it at all!

      But that would end the racketeering and won't be good for business... so that won't probably happen soon.

      1. Stoneshop Silver badge

        Re: Deinstall parts of W10?

        And possibly an option to not pay it at all with every new PC we buy when we want to not install it at all!

        The system I bought for my old man a couple of weeks ago was entirely devoid of any OS, Windows or otherwise. Just a bog standard Shuttle XPC something. This surprised me a bit, but in all it was quite welcome.

  3. BobChip
    Linux

    Deinstall Win 10?

    Microsoft has announced that its customers will finally be able to remove more of the cruft that arrives with a Windows 10 installation. In 2019.

    I'd rather be able to remove the entire OS - i.e. all of the cruft.

    Or, preferably, not have to install any of it in the first place.

    1. Fatman
      Linux

      Re: Deinstall Win 10?

      <quote>Microsoft has announced that its customers will finally be able to remove more of the cruft that arrives with a Windows 10 installation. In 2019.

      I'd rather be able to remove the entire OS - i.e. all of the cruft.</quote>

      It is simple, just get a Linux Live CD.

      1. fandom Silver badge

        Re: Deinstall Win 10?

        It's live usb nowadays

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge

          Re: Deinstall Win 10?

          "It's live usb nowadays"

          USB DVD - heh [they tend to go bad less frequently, especially the writers - I've had 2 DVD writers go bad by just sitting in the box spinning without being used...]

          flash drive images are ok if you happen to have a spare one handy that'll do the job. but everybody's got a DVD drive, more or less, with very very very few exceptions. And I still got a couple o' boxes of blanks

          1. SkippyBing Silver badge

            Re: Deinstall Win 10?

            'but everybody's got a DVD drive, more or less'

            I think you'll find a higher proportion of computers have USB sockets than DVD drives these days. Most laptops for starters.

            1. Roland6 Silver badge

              Re: Deinstall Win 10?

              Whilst USB 2.0 is supported, my 'ancient' x48 speed DVD/CD-RW drive that I got some while back to ease the task of installing software on to a netbook, will suffice.

          2. FrogsAndChips Bronze badge

            Re: everybody's got a DVD drive

            Laptops come less and less equipped with optical drives.

            1. Will Godfrey Silver badge

              Re: everybody's got a DVD drive

              @FrogAndChips

              Laptops come less and less equipped with optical drives.

              FTFY

          3. revdjenk

            Re: Deinstall Win 10?

            My last three devices did not have an optical drive.

          4. Patrician

            Re: Deinstall Win 10?

            No, no DVD Drive in my PC and hasn't been for a couple of years.

          5. jelabarre59 Silver badge

            Re: Deinstall Win 10?

            flash drive images are ok if you happen to have a spare one handy that'll do the job. but everybody's got a DVD drive, more or less, with very very very few exceptions. And I still got a couple o' boxes of blanks

            And you can crank them out for pennies; basic USB sticks are cheaper now, but you could probably get 25 blank DVDs for the price of a decent USB, and have more flexibility.

      2. Zakhar

        Re: Deinstall Win 10?

        Well, but M$ won't even care if you do so since they have already charged the license with the new PC you bought.

        The real news here would be that they stop doing that, which they will probably do when hell freezes!

    2. Wayland Bronze badge

      Re: Deinstall Win 10?

      Windows 10 still runs Lotus 123. What better reason could one need to stay with it?

  4. frank ly Silver badge

    Higher Power?

    How about activating the Administrator account (and logging in as Administrator) to remove Edge, etc? Or will it throw a wobbly and reinstall it?

    I once had to log in as Administrator to wipe some Wacom tablet drivers that had been borked by a MS update because it wouldn't let me unistall them or delete them while using my normal account.

    1. frank ly Silver badge

      Re: Higher Power?

      Can the downvoters explain why it's a bad/silly/stupid idea?

      1. Stoneshop Silver badge
        Holmes

        Re: Higher Power?

        Can the downvoters explain why it's a bad/silly/stupid idea?

        No, they just want to express their disagreement with your disagreement regarding what Windows allows you, if not forces you to do.

      2. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Higher Power?

        Didn't up or down vote but, the question has to be whether MS will respect the removal. So when the next big W10 update happens, all these (user removed) applications reappear...

        1. Terry 6 Silver badge

          Re: Higher Power?

          Being fair, the Powershelled away crap hasn't come back to haunt me. It does seem to stick - if you can get it done.

      3. Waseem Alkurdi

        Re: Higher Power?

        Probably because Administrator accounts or no UAC and Metro/whatever "apps" don't mix. But not for in installation anyhow, no probs I see in that.

    2. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      Re: Higher Power?

      Some things just aren't uninstallable. Because Microsoft have decided that they are part of the Operating System - there is no genuine technical need for them to be included. These crap things include Edge, Cortana, XBox and various other random bits of tripe that are installed by default and unremovable.

    3. Dagg

      Re: Higher Power?

      Interesting - There is one down vote on most of these replies. MS Troll perhaps...

      1. Someone Else Silver badge

        @Dagg -- Re: Higher Power?

        Interesting - There is one down vote on most of these replies. MS Troll perhaps...

        There, FTFY

    4. Wayland Bronze badge

      Re: Higher Power?

      High power, a good idea if you've never experienced Windows 10. However it's common knowledge, even folklaw by now that Windows 10 will simply rebuild itself they way it wants to be.

  5. deadlockvictim Silver badge

    Windows Insider: Hustle as a Service

    The head of the Windows Insider programme likens Windows 10 to 'Hustle as a Service'.

    Make of this what you will.

    So, are we Windows 10 users hustlers then?

    1. getHandle

      Re: Windows Insider: Hustle as a Service

      > So, are we Windows 10 users hustlers then?

      No, the hustled

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Windows Insider: Hustle as a Service

        Larry Flint might approve

    2. Craig100

      Re: Windows Insider: Hustle as a Service

      "Hassle as a Service" surely. Or just plainly "a disservice" ;)

    3. Anonymous IV
      Alert

      Re: Windows Insider: Hustle as a Service

      > The head of the Windows Insider programme likens Windows 10 to 'Hustle as a Service'.

      Perhaps he is getting confused with Hustler?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Windows Insider: Hustle as a Service

        The head of the Windows Insider programme likens Windows 10 to 'Hustle as a Service'.

        Perhaps he is getting confused with Hustler?

        SHE, actually (make of that what you will...)

    4. Spanners Silver badge
      Pirate

      Re: Windows Insider: Hustle as a Service

      'Hustle as a Service'.

      Am I correct in thinking that one US meaning of "hustler" could be what one might politely refer to as a working girl? If this is how MS see themselves, this could explain a lot...

  6. Mage Silver badge

    Commerce

    They don't need to be free. You can charge for applications on not just Mac, but Linux.

    Sage, Payroll, CRM, Adobe etc need to stop being lazy and port to Mac and Linux (Maybe Adobe is on Mac, I forget). Win10 simply is less productive and stable than Win7, Mac or Linux. It's turning into an MS Franken Chimera of Chrome OS and Android.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Commerce

      We're in for more of the same on MacOS Mojave, just look at the new App Store.

    2. Def Silver badge

      Re: Commerce

      You've got that the wrong way around.

      Windows 10 is no less stable than Windows 7, and is more stable than Mac OS. (In my experience.)

      Also, if you find the flavour of OS you use affects your productivity, then you're using the wrong tools. (Mostly - I still haven't found any non-Windows IDE that comes close to Visual Studio in terms of features or ease of use, especially in the debugger department.)

      1. JohnFen Silver badge

        Re: Commerce

        "especially in the debugger department"

        Wha? Of all the many things that I find lacking in VS, the debugger tops the list.

        1. Def Silver badge

          Re: Commerce

          Of all the many things that I find lacking in VS, the debugger tops the list.

          Seriously?

          What features from other debuggers are you missing?

          Edit: I won't say the VS debugger is perfect, but compared to the other debuggers I have to regularly use (Xcode and Android Studio - which is basically Jetbrains, and, on occasion, GDB) it's light years ahead.

          1. JohnFen Silver badge

            Re: Commerce

            Well, for starters, try setting a breakpoint that triggers when anything within a block of memory is accessed. You can't do it unless you're only interested in a 1, 2, 4, 8, or 16 byte long range. The watch facilities are difficult and annoying to use. I/O breakpoint support is limited. And so forth. The Visual Studio debugger is better than nothing, but only just.

            I agree with you, though, that it's better than Xcode and JetBrains, but that's not a resounding endorsement. GDB is superior to them all, although it has issues of its own.

            Really, the state of debuggers today is rather shocking overall. I have a hard time coming up with any that are better than the average debugger from the mid-to-late '80s, and most of them are less capable.

            Personally, I think this is a result of the advent of IDEs more than anything else.

            1. Def Silver badge

              Re: Commerce

              The limited byte range is an x86 hardware breakpoint limitation. That should be easy enough to work around though, so I'm not sure why Visual Studio doesn't do that out of the box. (You can change the debug engine in Visual Studio so it's not impossible - WinDBG supports large data breakpoints, and integrates with Visual Studio, apparently.)

              Setting watches could be a bit easier, but overall I find the watch/variables windows, especially when using custom data visualisers pretty useful. To be honest, the biggest gripe I have with these is the shitty two-column tree view they use. I more often than not just hover over variables in the editor window and traverse the tree in the popup. (I noticed that the latest version supports right-clicking on any variable and setting a data breakpoint on that variable immediately, which is nice.)

              The problem I have with GDB is its horrible (or really complete lack of) UI. Anything where I spend more time Googling how to do something than actually doing it doesn't get me overly excited. Every time I have to use GDB I usually end up wishing I could just see the fucking code I'm stepping through.

              I think the real power of Visual Studio starts to shine when you're debugging multiple projects concurrently. It's so much easier these days to be able to set breakpoints in both a client and a server, for example, and seamlessly switch between them. Gone are the days of having to run two instances simultaneously and try to synchronise them manually. Ditto for debugging browser/web server systems in the same manner. That and the fact that debugging crash dumps just works - especially if you have symbol and source servers connected to your build system.

              That said, it's definitely not the perfect IDE. While the feature list has continued to rise, I think the overall quality of Visual Studio has dropped considerably in the last decade. The fact that it's still better than most other IDEs out there really doesn't say much about the competition though. :)

              1. Dan 55 Silver badge

                Re: Commerce

                Every time I have to use GDB I usually end up wishing I could just see the fucking code I'm stepping through.

                Running gdb as an engine in the IDE or even TUI mode (Ctrl-X Ctrl-A) no good?

                1. Def Silver badge

                  Re: Commerce

                  Running gdb as an engine in the IDE or even TUI mode (Ctrl-X Ctrl-A) no good?

                  At the previous company I worked at most developers (myself included) were working on Windows with Visual Studio. The few who did work full time in Linux didn't use a specific IDE, so there were no projects setup. I only ventured into Linux when there was a bug to fix that nobody else could figure out.

                  I found TUI mode to be hit and miss at the best of times.

                  Prior to that, I was working on an extremely old code base on extremely old versions of Solaris which was running even older versions of pretty much everything. Not an IDE in sight, and the version of GDB didn't even support TUI. (Or if it did, it didn't work. It was a while ago now; I forget all the details.)

                  These days I get to play mostly with Visual Studio (as I have almost daily for the last 22 years or so), Xcode (the only IDE where tabbed documents were added as an afterthought), and Android Studio (which only allows debugging native code on Wednesdays in months that don't have an R in their name).

                  1. Dan 55 Silver badge

                    Re: Commerce

                    Your problem then is you didn't have an IDE to run gdb and you didn't have a gdb without TUI mode compiled in.

                    1. Def Silver badge

                      Re: Commerce

                      Nice observation, Sherlock.

                      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

                        Re: Commerce

                        If I said I didn't like Windows development because the Microsoft C Compiler is limited and only runs from a DOS prompt, I guess that would be silly too.

            2. LDS Silver badge

              "Personally, I think this is a result of the advent of IDEs"

              Not at all - using a debugger outside an IDE for complex application made by hundred of files it's a real pain in the ass. And a good, modern debugger needs also to know enough about the language it's debugging to deliver the relevant data in the right format. So a strictly integration with an IDE is often needed. Actually, I've see many people not using IDEs reverting to older debugging practices like log files and printf() when not really needed. Of course external debuggers are very useful when you have to debug on machines where development tools are not installed.

              The real issue is there is little IDE competition nowadays, so there can be little investment in advanced features.

      2. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Commerce

        >Windows 10 is no less stable than Windows 7, and is more stable than Mac OS. (In my experience.)

        Well n my experience, I've had to rebuild more Win10 laptops/tablets than Win7 machines. However, part of this is down to the stupidity of MS update - the Win10 tablet has had to be factory reset etc. twice in the last two years because MS borked the update process.

        I suspect if you could turn off MS updates then the underlying improvements might start to show.

        >Also, if you find the flavour of OS you use affects your productivity, then you're using the wrong tools.

        Duh! So if I'm good with MS Office (full suite including Visio and Project) on Win7, but find on W10 it's not so simple to switch between stuff, I should use a different Office suite, yet continue to use W10...

    3. LDS Silver badge

      "need to stop being lazy and port to Mac and Linux"

      Adobe software was born on Apple... also Win10 is not "less productive", because most people spend very little time in the OS. Once they launch the applications they need, the OS becomes quite irrelevant, of course as long as it boots and don't deletes your files. Win10 short release cycles became a reliability issue, and that's surely a big issue.

      It's not "being lazy", but to port commercial desktop applications to Linux there are some not small issues to overcome - and don't expect to see them delivered by repositories.

      First of all, the very small user base. Latest stats give Linux desktop at about 4% of the market. It is true that lacks of applications also keeps it there, but a big investment to port applications to a small user base is always risky. Especially a user base which is not willingly to *buy* software, because it's heavily skewed towards "open source" supporters.

      Then there's the GPL issue. Most commercial applications are closed source, so they'll need to avoid any GPL issue.

      The comes the distro fragmentation, including the widget one, and backward and forward compatibility - commercial applications can't be recompiled by users whenever something changes.

      As most Linux users are actually more interested in command line and terminal tools, Linux lags still behind not only macOS, but Windows as well when it comes to GUIs - because developing GUIs is a more complex and longer task than developing text based applications, and requires very specific skills. The need often to avoid commercial items like fonts, don't help at all.

      Most Linux GUI applications are really ugly, even more than the latest flat UIs from MS. Qt, wxWidgets, etc are really not that great. Being cross platform doesn't help too, because it makes them uglier and slower.

      No surprise a lot of GUI Linux applications are actually Java ones - because there are far more GUI libraries available, and they work across distros.

      To become a more appealing desktop platform Linux has to decide what business model it wants to support - as long as it's mostly Open Source/GPL only, other platforms, despite a lot of troubles, will be still more appealing for commercial software.

      1. Updraft102 Silver badge

        Re: "need to stop being lazy and port to Mac and Linux"

        @LDS.... lot of Linux myths there.

        Linux users don't buy software, for one. The average Linux steam user outspends the average Windows user. Not everyone is Richard Stallman-- many of us are in Linux-land not because of some fanatical devotion to the tenets of open source, but because we're sick of Microsoft's crap.

        Application developers need not fear GPL. I don't know why people are so prone to overstate it, but if you're not taking GPL code and redistributing it, you're fine. Is it really better to develop for closed-source platforms from companies that think they can patent things like rounded corners? Software patents ought not be a thing, but they are, in the US at least.

        I'd be interested in seeing any surveys you may have about Linux people being more interested in the command line. I see a lot of interest in desktop environments and graphical tools. I'm certainly not itching to open a terminal window at every opportunity. I use the terminal when I have to, not because I am interested in it. I'm interested in getting things done, and whatever tool allows me to do that as efficiently as possible is what I use.

        Applications in Linux are mostly ugly. I'm not seeing it! Firefox looks like it does in Windows (ok, bad example; Firefox has been ugly since Australis landed), and so does Thunderbird. Qt looks like the theme you've assigned to it... if it's ugly, you probably need a new theme. Now, I will say the GNOME programs (not apps, it's not a damn phone) with their CSDs and hamburger menus are ugly, but not as ugly as anything UWP. UWP sets a new standard of dingy, space-wasting, unintuitive, "it looks like something broke" ugliness. At least GNOME CSD header bars are themeable.

        Text-based applications? Other than "quickie" single-purpose tools for which I can't find a graphical alternative, I think the last text application I used may have been Telix, back in the MS-DOS days.

        Windows is ahead of Linux in GUIs? Have you SEEN Windows 10? It's the ugliest, most disjointed piece of crap masquerading as an OS I have ever seen. You could pick a Linux DE at random and end up with something better than Windows 10. I'd take Cinnamon, KDE Plasma, Xfce over Windows 10 any day of the week... and in fact I have used all three of those instead of 10. KDE Plasma makes Windows feel antiquated and stifling by comparison. All three of those DEs (suitably themed) are far more attractive than Windows 10. It's hard to imagine anything that isn't. UWP seems to be singularly designed to maximize hideousness.

        Speaking of themes, you don't have to hack the OS in Linux to be able to modify the theme as you do with any currently supported Windows version. Just getting rid of the blinding white backgrounds in Windows 10 requires intervention to get the OS to stop blocking your theme because MS is more concerned about branding than serving their users. They've decided that this is the "look of Windows," and everyone is going to be forced to use it. That's part of proprietary software-- the maker is always going to be looking to benefit themselves, and third-parties and end users alike often suffer.

        Gabe Newell at Valve, who makes a living selling software and helping other game companies to sell software, isn't afraid of Linux. He's more concerned that MS is going to deprecate Win32 bit by bit in favor of UWP, then close the door to sideloading, so that all Windows programs are UWP and all UWP programs come from the MS Store, as it is with Apple and the App Store and iOS. That's clearly the model for MS, even though iOS is a mobile platform and Windows isn't anymore. Supporting Linux means no one can corner the market on software and lock everyone into their fiefdom!

        Developing for Linux means ongoing freedom for third-party software companies to make money without bowing at the MS altar and paying their tribute as devs have to do to get their apps in Apple's App Store. Linux can never be locked down by a single company in that way, for precisely the same reason that companies are supposedly afraid of Linux (the GPL).

        Even if you're not interested in gaming at all, the principles are the same with any other kind of program. If Microsoft can lock gamers into the Microsoft Store, they can do the same with users every other kind of application. Developing for Linux doesn't have to make a ton of money in and of itself if it prevents Microsoft from being able to consolidate everything in a way that favors them and harms everyone else. As long as people have a viable alternative to Windows, Microsoft won't be able to create the walled garden they so desperately want. It doesn't matter if the share is 4%... if businesses/gamers/etc. see Linux as a real option, it limits what MS can get away with, and that's good for people who sell software on Windows. So many people say they hate Windows 10, but they can't leave because the programs they absolutely need are not available elsewhere. Microsoft knows this very, very well; it's why they act as they do.

        How much more pleasant would Windows be if people did have a choice? If their favorite programs were on Linux, Windows would not be the pain train for users that it is now. That train hasn't reached its destination yet either... it's only going to get worse and worse. They don't even have half the Windows users on 10 yet, but that's only a matter of time. If they act this way now, how will it be when 80% are using 10? The only competition for Windows 10 right now is Windows 7, and the clock is ticking. MS is not afraid of people moving to Linux. We'd all be better off if they were (excluding MS itself, of course). Developing for Linux is an investment in being able to keep making money from Windows users.

    4. Jakester

      Re: Commerce

      Sage hasn't even been able to get one of their accounting software packages to work properly with Win 10 rel 1803. I had to roll-back to rel 1709 because of all the lockups and other issues a user was having. I don't think they have the time to port to any other platform because they have to expend so much energy to try to get their software to work with Windows.

    5. hplasm Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Commerce

      "It's turning into an MS Franken Chimera of Chrome OS and Android."

      It's the bits that ChromeoS and Android reject, that makes Windows X the best!!

      /jingle

  7. phuzz Silver badge
    Trollface

    Why would you want Windows installed without Edge?

    You need something to download Firefox/Chrome with.

    (I'm pretty sure IE is still installed too)

    1. fandom Silver badge

      No fear! you could still use cURL

      1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

        ...and what parts of the OS do these applets use to download files using HTTP/HTML protocols? These are not standalone applets and while some functionality works without a full UI browser much doesn't.

      2. DropBear Silver badge

        No idea if they're still distributed like that, but I was doing just fine downloading a browser to a new win box by FTP, using nothing more elaborate than the CLI "ftp" command...

  8. David Austin

    I Will Fucking Murder Mail

    The moment it's back is turned: Fed up of Microsoft's helpful default app updates knocking Outlook out as it's not the Windows 10 Recommended app.

    1. Martin Summers Silver badge

      Re: I Will Fucking Murder Mail

      This and reverting Edge to be default PDF viewer everytime Adobe Reader has an update.

      There is a powershell command to remove mail app for all users on a machine BTW.

      1. aks

        Re: I Will Fucking Murder Mail

        Surely, that's an Adobe issue.

        I keep a clean desktop without icons and with a solid-colour background. My annoyance is apps and updates that plant an icon on my desktop that I then need to remove.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: I Will Fucking Murder Mail

      yeah outlook, THAT is an "improvement" (not)

      Well, over the UWP mail CRapp, I guess it is...

      Outlook Express wasn't bad back in its day. I use T-bird though because it's basically the same on ANY platform (and works just fine with my IMAP). Its quirks have stabilized, more or less.

  9. Vince

    How about getting rid of Minecraft and the various Candy Crush Soda Saga Gibbon Badger Super Soaker 104?

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge
  10. DJV Silver badge

    "builds may contain bugs that might be painful for some"

    "Windows 10 will contain bugs features that will be painful for all"

    FTFY

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    troubleshoot function

    "... and introduces a "Troubleshoot" function, which makes use of diagnostic data slurped from the PC to suggest fixes for problems."

    Is it the same as in W7, which sleeps for a while, before, each bloody time, announcing no fix is found ?

    I've always been doubtful there was any troubleshooting code whatsoever, here.

    1. Stevie Silver badge

      Re: troubleshoot function

      Every time I've tried to use it.

    2. John Miles

      Re: I've always been doubtful there was any troubleshooting code

      It has solved wifi problems for me a couple of times, after a think it decides to shutdown and restart the wifi-driver and this fixes the issue - but that is the only thing I can recall it fixing.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just Removed MS Photo and Skype

    I noticed that MS Photo and Skype are set up by Win 10 to load and run in the background all the time, consuming memory and CPU cycles.

    I don't use MS Photo so I uninstalled that.

    Skype was uninstalled and I replaced it with a portable version which is set to launch only when I want it to.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    uninstall some of the bits you really don't want

    uninstall / disable telemetrics and other spying shit and I will consider upgrading, even paying for it.

    ...

    yeah, that's what I thought.

  14. adam payne Silver badge

    A very small step in the right direction.

    What about the rest of it?

    Windows Store

    Maps

    Cortana

    MIxed Reality

    etc etc.

    Not going to put telemetry on the list as that'll never happen.

  15. FrogsAndChips Bronze badge

    Removed, for how long?

    Has MS promised that every part you remove won't come back in the next update, forcing you to uninstall it again?

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    As others have said, I would like to line Cortana up against the wall and shoot it with no last request given.

    PS FFS MS, no more gigantic biannual updates either.

  17. SkippyBing Silver badge

    'It sounds suspiciously like those helpful websites that claim to spot issues on your rig and offer a fix, before spraying your OS with layer upon layer of malware. Just without the malware bit.'

    Are you sure about that second bit, I mean you'll still have Win 10 on there.

  18. Douchus McBagg

    shutup10

    spybot anti-beacon

    gpedit.msc - computer config/admin templates/cloud content/"turn off Microsoft consumer expiriences"

    anyone got anything else?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      >anyone got anything else?

      Yep format C:, install Linux.

      1. Waseem Alkurdi
        Linux

        C: sda

        Fixed!

  19. Wolfclaw Silver badge

    Windows 7 should have been left alone, until W10 had all the old GUI elements replaced, so the GUI is uniform and then a core build should have been released with everything else as bolt on extra from the store, then everybody gets the best of all options, but no Microsft likes to d o half assd jobs and then try and clean up the mess !

  20. Terry 6 Silver badge

    Connect!!!!!

    Even Powershell can't get rid of this "provisioned " piece of crap. Which won't even work on my PC ( should I ever want it to, maybe while I'm watching the pigs fly past my door).

    But underlying this is the mindset that mysteriously believes that it's to their advantage to force this crap to remain on your machine, even in the face of a determined campaign of removal. Let's face it. Anyone going to the effort of researching the correct name for the crap, then running Powershell to enter the removal command is pretty sure to be not ever going to use it. And even if they did decide to, ffs, just make it installable in the poxy "store".

    1. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      Re: Connect!!!!!

      Did you mean something as hard as:

      Get-AppxPackage Microsoft.OneConnect | Remove-AppxPackage

      ?

      1. Terry 6 Silver badge

        Re: Connect!!!!!

        Except-that-doesn't-work.

        Neither did similar ( not the same) Powershell commands I found online.

        Like this one

        Get-AppxPackage -allusers Windows.MiracastView_6.3.0.0_neutral_neutral_cw5n1h2txyewy | Remove-AppxPackage

        But I have removed all the apps that can be removed in Powershell

        1. Glenturret Single Malt

          Re: Connect!!!!!

          I removed Mail with no problem just to see if it worked. I had to use Powershell (Run as Admin).

        2. Updraft102 Silver badge

          Re: Connect!!!!!

          How about install_wim_tweak.exe? That's what I used to eradicate all apps from 8.1!

  21. Avatar of They Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Too small a step too late

    “builds may contain bugs that might be painful for some”

    Releases contain bugs that might be painful for some.

    FTFY

    Last night my "metered access" button to stop downloading crud had miraculously switched off and during a game it crashed to desktop to tell me updates were installed and restart needed.

    Being able to uninstall apps at my leisure including dial home stuff would be nice as it means my gaming rig wouldn't turn into a toaster every few months.

    It won't stop me hating MS any less or stop using Linux however

  22. NanoMeter

    I really don't want the telemetry stuff.

  23. Waseem Alkurdi

    From the article:

    Sadly, it doesn’t seem that Microsoft’s largesse extends to making the Edge browser uninstallable.

    Isn't removable because the OS would break without it, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

    Oh, was that IE?

  24. Jay Lenovo
    Unhappy

    Customer Feedback

    “builds may contain bugs that might be painful for some”

    Unfortunately, many of the bugs are also called features.

  25. mark l 2 Silver badge

    You can't uninstall Edge because Edge is just another version of IE but renamed as something else because the IE name became toxic due to so many flaws in the software. And we all know how Microsoft integrated IE so far into the OS that if they try to remove it, it broke the OS.

    1. Updraft102 Silver badge

      And we all know how Microsoft integrated IE so far into the OS that if they try to remove it, it broke the OS.

      So they said (under oath, before Congress), but Mozilla's Revenge did a good job of removing IE from Win 98... if anything, it was more stable than with IE installed. I ran it that way until I went to XP. I would have tried XPLite, which was supposed to do something similar, if I didn't need it for Windows Updates. In 7, you can just "uninstall" IE and go into the directory and delete everything (except ieproxy.dll, I believe; that has to still be there). When I ran 7, that was my configuration, and it was rock solid.

  26. JohnFen Silver badge

    And yet

    And yet, you still can't make Windows stop spying on you.

  27. stephanh Silver badge

    uninstall Edge

    You cannot uninstall Edge since UWP apps can be written in JavaScript and then essentially run in an Edge window without browser "chrome".

    So Edge is really part of the UWP API.

    1. Jamie Jones Silver badge

      Re: uninstall Edge

      what if you don't want UWP?

      Sigh.. What happened to the days when the OS was the OS, and the programs you ran on that OS were up to you?

      1. stephanh Silver badge

        Re: uninstall Edge

        Yeah, well, I see your point about UWP, but Microsoft also doesn't allow you to uninstall the Win32 API, so it's kind of consistent in that.

        I mean, UWP is, or was at some point, supposed to be *the* future Windows API.

        1. Jamie Jones Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: uninstall Edge

          :-)

          I'm just waiting to see how long before you can use it to read email

        2. MJI Silver badge

          Re: uninstall Edge

          But in the real world Windows is used simply because of WIN32

  28. NealOKelly

    Personally, I think Win 10 is a fantastic OS. I don't really understand the snippy hostility.

    1. JohnFen Silver badge

      The snippy hostility comes from a combination of the fact that lots of people disagree that Win 10 is a fantastic OS and that Microsoft has been so corrupt and heavy-handed about forcing everyone they can into using it.

    2. DJV Silver badge

      @NealOKelly

      Either:

      1) You forgot the <sarcasm> tags.

      or

      2) WAIT! You were really serious? (goes and lies down...)

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      re. Personally, I think Win 10 is a fantastic OS

      the number of downvotes to such a blunt pseudo-bait is a clear sign a new generation is here in force (hey, siri, what's "bait"?). And to think I expected well over a hundred upvotes, particularly in this threat.

      Time to die...

  29. GetMeOuttaHere

    Be very afraid if the Windows No hopers ...correction.... Windows Insiders are going to get their hands on the 2019 release!

    Given their appalling track record over the last 2 or 3 major releases there is every possibility they will fuck this up too.

    As for the ability to uninstall certain bolt-ons, well whoopy do! Microsoft has become far too controlling with their W10 release, more or less telling you what you can and can't do. And this forthcoming token gesture of goodwill to remove crappy little apps rather than the more fundamental ones like Edge, is nothing more than a slightly bent Middle Finger to its customer base.

  30. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Paris Hilton

    So, do you really TRUST AZURE?

    I would rather go with AWS even if Dr. Bezos puts underpaid & undocumented immigration labor harvested from sanctuary cities into remote control cages and electroshocks them to keep them in line while a white balloon patrols the aisles.

    1. Jamie Jones Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: So, do you really TRUST AZURE?

      Ever thought of being a salesman? :-)

  31. aks

    I've used every version of Windows since 3.0, DOS before that and Mainframe since 1967, etc. Windows 7 edged out Windows 2000 (didn't like XP) and Windows 10 can be tamed without much effort.

    I'd like to drop Xbox but only Cortana annoys me. Telemetry doesn't worry me too much as the UK is such a surveilance state already that nobody has any secrets any more. The ad-flingers don't impact me much as I de-personalise Firefox and don't actually *see* the ads anyway.

  32. DougS Silver badge
    WTF?

    Oh, CALCULATOR!

    I'm sure they've been fielding complaints by the millions from people who want to remove that! :/

    I'd like to be able to remove all the data slurping stuff - unless they make Windows 10 free they shouldn't try to double dip by also slurping your data.

    I'd also like to be able to properly clean up after patching. Why does the OS grow and grow in size from giving you the ability to roll back? There should be some way to 'commit' OS changes so that after you feel comfortable that the latest patches haven't broken something you can eliminate the ability to roll back and save some space.

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Oh, CALCULATOR!

      >There should be some way to 'commit' OS changes so that after you feel comfortable that the latest patches haven't broken something you can eliminate the ability to roll back and save some space.

      Typical MS basic functionality is available in Win7 using the Disk Cleanup -> Clean up System Files option. With Win10 the relevant functionality has been moved into Settings -> System > Storage

      Although, I have read that you only need to manually do a system file clean up on Win10 if you want to clean OS update files before Windows automatic housekeeping gets around to it.

      Obviously, the MS tools will only clean up the standard Windows areas and files, so you will still need to use CCleaner (with settings appropriate to your needs) if you want a single place to clean up after third-party applications.

    2. Terry 6 Silver badge

      Re: Oh, CALCULATOR!

      You can. Right click on drive. Choose the clean-up button. Select the system files button and select the files to remove.....

      1. DougS Silver badge

        Re: Oh, CALCULATOR!

        Does it actually work in Windows 10, unlike the terrible implementation in Windows 7? You will more than double the size of a Windows 7 install these days due to all the patches that are added, and NOT cleaned up by the system tools that claim to do so.

  33. earl grey Silver badge
    Unhappy

    points to a golden future

    Thanks, but i'm not into golden showers these days.

  34. rich436

    How about adding to Windows 10?

    I would perfer to add the Windows Media Center to Windows 10, than anything else.

  35. Tromos

    Can I please uninstall 3...

    ...and get Windows 7?

  36. rmullen0

    Pathetic

    With all due respect, that small number of apps that can be uninstalled is pathetic. This isn't revolutionary at all. What they should do is make it more like Linux where you can even install it without the GUI. And how about being able to uninstall Cortana? The truth is, if you really want to be able to customize your system, Windows doesn't cut it. I'm a Windows user primarily, so, I am not partisan and just trying to pick on Microsoft. I am just pointing out FACT. This lack of configurability is a long standing issue and I don't see why it is even worth mentioning that you can uninstall the apps listed in the article if that is all it is.

  37. Jamie Jones Silver badge
    Facepalm

    ** BREAKING NEWS **

    A super futuristic operating system launches next year that allows you to remove programs installed on your own computer.

    Damn liberals will next be saying I have the freedom to use it when I want too...

  38. John 61
    Trollface

    Microsoft points to a golden future where...

    Windows doesn't bork 200 million installations?

    1. Spanners Silver badge
      Big Brother

      Re: Microsoft points to a golden future where...

      Oink Oink Oink...Whoosh!

  39. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Maybe time to revert to an Enterprise and Home version ?

    plus ca change and all that ?

  40. Arachnoid

    What about the stuff that we really don't want...

    "Get of my Lawn!"

  41. Arachnoid

    Retestrak

    "I would have tried XPLite"

    Ah yes those modded OSs were better designed than a whole team of Microsoft employees could come up with.

  42. Someone Else Silver badge
    Big Brother

    Yawn!

    Call me when they allow one to "uninstall" Slurp, and Forced Updates. Oh, and Cortana, too!

  43. J J Carter Silver badge
    Windows

    Eh?

    Can't understand this. All these of these fine apps are the icing on the already gilded lily of WIndows 10.

  44. redwine

    Whatever, if they get rid of mspaint I'm moving to Linux.

  45. W. Anderson

    Welcome option

    This offering would be welcome for me since I do not use any Microsoft specific applications on my Windows 10 Laptop, preferring instead to use a plethora of better quality and more reliable and Secure Free/Open Source Software (FOSS).

    Plus I get familiarity of these FOSS applications on the Linux "Dual Boot" partition on my computer.

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