back to article Shortages, price rises, recession: Tech industry preps for hard Brexit

Product shortages, additional price hikes and a recession could become a reality if the UK crashes out of the European Union without any sort of trade agreement in place. This was the message that came loud and clear at this week's Canalys Channels Forum in Barcelona. Some people in the industry are getting jittery and it is …

  1. Bloodbeastterror

    And all we can do...

    ...is press our local MP to demand a second referendum to prove that this nonsense actually is the will of the people. Not the people I know. Not in my name.

    1. Dr Paul Taylor

      Re: And all we can do...

      and go to the demo on Saturday 20 October at midday from Park Lane (Hyde Park):

      www.peoples-vote.uk/march

      and join your local campaign group: www.IStopBrexit.info

      1. Orwell

        Re: And all we can do...

        I will see you there!

        Can we stop Brexit and save the UK? Dunno, but I need to make some personal effort before its too late.

        1. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

          Re: And all we can do...

          Worth noting that for the last march for a people's vote a few months ago, Bristol for Europe, my local campaign group, filled two coaches of people. There were around 150,000 people on that march (and a few hundred gammons / kippers on the counter-march). As of last week, BfE had sold out tickets for eight coaches for the coming march. If we use that as an indicator of how many people are likely to turn up this weekend, if the weather is nice, that will be somewhere north of 1M people trying to get into Parliament Square.

          For a general rule-of-thumb, for each person who turns up to a demonstration, there are twenty others who also have the same strongly-felt political opinion (and politicians generally use this rule-of thumb when gauging public opinion), so lets call that 20M+ people. That is already several million more people than the 17.4M who voted to leave the EU in 2016. Of course, everyone on that march will be a Russian Troll™ trying to interfere with the democratic rights of those freedom loving quitters.

          Such demonstrations are important (and an important part of democracy) because they are one of the best ways of making governments sit up and take notice of what the people are saying.

          It's looking less and less likely that May will get a deal that will satisfy Parliament (and looking more likely that she will get no deal at all), it is up to us to make it known that it is time for her to stop playing the "will of the people" game and become a proper grown-up states-person who is able to put the interests of the country ahead of the interests of her own career, or her party's. And lets face it, the Tory Party isn't exactly going to come out the far end of this smelling of roses in any eventuality.

          1. Dr Paul Taylor

            Re: And all we can do...

            To Loyal Commenter: of course I agree with everything you say, but I think you might be overestimating the numbers. A bit over a week ago I attended a presentation by a BfE person originally from Bristol that 50,000 had signed up on the PV website, FB, Eventbrite etc. Received wisdom is that you multiply such numbers by 10 to get the actual turnout.

    2. Paul 195

      Re: And all we can do...

      I don't want a second referendum. I want the grownups to put a stop to this Brexit nonsense. The people who want Brexit need to go away and only comeback when they have a properly costed plan.

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: And all we can do...

        The people who want Brexit need to go away and only comeback when they have a properly costed plan.

        FTFY But a distinction without a difference.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: And all we can do...

          The people who want to stay in the EU need to go away and live there,

          They are an unwanted minority in the UK.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: And all we can do...

            >The people who want to stay in the EU need to go away and live there..

            Unfortunately many will and have - alternatively just move to Scotland or Northern Ireland and wait a couple of years - easier to learn an accent than a language.

      2. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Pirate

        Re: And all we can do...

        "The people who want Brexit need to go away"

        etc.

        yeah, anti-Trump'ers have that attitude about those who voted for and/or support our current president. And yet, the last nearly 2 years show how much BETTER things got, and way faster than anyone expected (even Trump), because Trump became president. [we did NOT 'go away']

        I like the optimism that was expressed in the article; that is, if there's a Brexit, things get better. If there's NO Brexit, things still get better. The only scenario that this individual saw was 'bad' is one with "no plan", which we all know that politicians are INFAMOUS for...

        (lots of 'harumph', nothing really getting done, but isn't that better than the alternative of what they'd do if they COULD???)

        Oh, and 'silencing your opposition' instead of presenting logical (not emotional) arguments that prove how right you are is a typical tactic of those who promote oppressive gummints [think "brown shirts"]. You shouldn't be like them. Present your arguments and let the arena of ideas deal with it logically. You're welcome. Otherwise it's like being a 'mob', just shouting your opposition down with no discussion.

        rebelliious pirate icon, just because

        1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
          Headmaster

          Re: And all we can do...

          yeah, anti-Trump'ers

          Please don't highjack this article with addled nonsense about yet another dumb US president. FWIW Clinton easily won the popular vote in America, which would be the comparison to make with a referendum. And, if everything is so rosy, I assume you haven't seen the size of the US public debt recently…

        2. This post has been deleted by its author

      3. RegGuy1

        I don't want a second referendum. I want the grownups to put a stop to this Brexit nonsense.

        https://share.trin.cam.ac.uk/sites/public/Comms/Rogers_brexit_as_revolution.pdf

        It starts: "Catherine kindly asked me which ABBA song I would want to accompany my dance to the platform. “Waterloo” would be the obvious choice, I think."

        Read it and learn a lot.

    3. Sproggit

      Re: And all we can do...

      When David Cameron won the General Election in 2010, he got a solid majority in the House of Commons on 44% of the popular vote.

      Nobody complained.

      When the Referendum took place, the Prime Minister and the Remain camp used public funds to advertise, used public funds to perform a leaflet drop to every single household in the UK - and still the final result was 52% in favour of leaving the EU.

      Whether you support the outcome or not, it is critical that participants respect the democratic process. The numbers voting in favour of leaving the EU significantly exceeded those voting for the party that has won any of the general elections in my lifetime, yet I don't recall a single GE result being challenged.

      Going in to the Referendum it was made very, VERY clear that it was a one-time vote with a binding result.

      It really is time to accept the result and move on.

      1. The Specialist

        Re: And all we can do...

        Imagine you are on the ledge of a cliff, 100m below you is the ocean with and at the bottom of it is full of rocks (you don't know how deep is the water) and may be laser shooting sharks.

        The crowd gathered around you and 52% of them are baiting you to jump.

        Would you?

        On a second note, ironically, the people who are going to be most effected negatively are the ones who wants BREXIT. Although I have voted to remain, I say let them have it - because "I'm alright Jack" I can and will go where my job is going.

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: And all we can do...

          re: ironically, the people who are going to be most effected negatively are the ones who wants BREXIT.

          The trouble is that those who want Brexit and are in a position to influence matters just can't agree on what sort of Brexit they actually want. From yesterday evening's news, I got the distinct impression the only area of agreement is an absolute terror of there being the slightest chance of remaining or the transitional arrangements becoming business as usual normal.

          When 60+ Brexit supporting Conservative MPs can't agree on Brexit and Rees-Mogg is scared to publish "his" plan because it would be ridiculed (highly likely given the ridicule handed out over his plans for the Irish border conundrum), yet continue to jockey for political points, you know things will end badly...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: And all we can do...

            re: ironically, the people who are going to be most effected negatively are the ones who wants BREXIT.

            You can always tell a remainer by the level of illiteracy and lack of understanding of UK grammar spelling and usage.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: And all we can do...

          Imagine you are on the ledge of a cliff, 100m below you is the ocean with and at the bottom of it is full of rocks (you don't know how deep is the water) and may be laser shooting sharks.

          The crowd gathered around you and 52% of them are baiting you to jump.

          Would you?

          No, that's why voted to leave. And am sticking to it.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: And all we can do...

        "Whether you support the outcome or not, it is critical that participants respect the democratic process."

        Let's try a thought experiment. The Flat Earth Party has won a referendum to abolish gravity (or define pi as 3). Should the democratic process be respected?

        1. #define INFINITY -1 Bronze badge

          @Doctor Syntax Re: And all we can do...

          You probably have a better education than me, judging by your posts. I've been playing catch-up over the last decade or so with gutenberg, archive.org and wikipedia. One thing is certainly plain to me--Britain is in a cleft stick.

          Having climbed to the peak, it is a jump to certain death either way. Have another referendum and you can never take your Parliament at their word again--unless the referendum was as plainly stated as ‘Did you vote in the last referendum and do you believe you were misguided when doing so?' And if yes, what else than to sack parliament?

          Instability lies in your future. Instability lies in my present though (former colony which cut off its nose to spite its face). Our Parliament have never followed through, and we all just wait for the next step down the ladder of anarchy. You're welcome to come here, but Englishmen are not much liked (word of mouth, you know).

        2. Version 1.0 Silver badge

          Re: And all we can do...

          Should the democratic process be respected? Da, Putin is a big fan of the democratic process.

        3. Apprentice

          Re: And all we can do...

          Yes. Because democracy is democracy. The ridiculous example you chose however is a far cry from the 17.5 million people that voted to leave.

          This whole "keep voting until we get the result we want" idea is NOT democratic. So rather than keep trying to throttle the process, we should use that energy to make plans for our future without the EU.

          Waving placards, signing petitions and venting on social media is not going to change a thing. Brexit is happening and you need to get used to that fact.

          1. BinkyTheMagicPaperclip Silver badge

            Re: And all we can do...

            I don't think you understand what democracy is. It has taken decades to get through various changes in law such as votes for women, the end of slavery, and other equal rights of many different flavours (most recently extending civil partnerships to everyone).

            For every law that his made there will always be the opposite side(s) lobbying for a change (see : ban on hunting). If the differing opinions to the current law do not form a substantial percentage of the electorate, the law persists and little coverage is made. If the percentages in support of each position are much closer, or there are highly placed/funded people (hunting) there's more coverage, and the likelihood of a challenge to the law.

            Brexit was a very close vote, so the challenges will continue until the percentages in opinion swing substantially.

            If Brexit does not happen there will be continued pressure to change our relationship with the EU (this is not limited to the UK as we can see in other EU countries, including the big two).

            If Brexit does happen in my opinion the fallout will be severe enough that within a limited number of years there will be a UK re-entry to the EU in some form.

            I personally doubt we will leave the EU at the end of March, largely due to the Irish issue. The Irish issue that was thoroughly covered in the media (including the BBC), and yet many Brexiters conveniently forgot or claimed it wasn't sufficiently covered..

      3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: And all we can do...

        "Going in to the Referendum it was made very, VERY clear that it was a one-time vote with a binding result."

        Does the word "advisory" ring any bells?

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: And all we can do...

          Going in to the Referendum it was made very, VERY clear that nothing would change except 350M/week would be spent on the NHS and all the foreigners would be kicked out

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: And all we can do...

          Does the word "advisory" ring any bells?

          None at all.

          At no time did any organisation use that term UNTIL REMAIN HAD LOST.

      4. Jason Hindle

        Re: And all we can do...

        “Going in to the Referendum it was made very, VERY clear that it was a one-time vote with a binding result.”

        You’re confusing it with the Scottish Independence referendum*. The Brexit referendum was advisory. I’m quite enjoying all this unfinished business.

        * Where the promise that the best way to stay in Europe is to stay in Britain might well have carried the final result.

        1. jellyplate

          Re: And all we can do...

          And subsequently turned into law by votes in both houses. Weirdly, my thanks go to Gina for putting the advisory argument to bed. Is that enough democracy for the #LosersVote mob or are you still going for some more until, well, who knows?

          1. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: And all we can do...

            >Weirdly, my thanks go to Gina for putting the advisory argument to bed.

            ? The court case put to bed the idea that the Conservatives and the Executive could radically change the UK Constitution etc. without Parliament's consent.

            The referendum did not bind Parliament, MP's could have and still can vote to end Brexit and there won't be anything legal Brexiteers can do to prevent it...

      5. Joe W

        Re: And all we can do...

        Well... binding... yeah...

        No, it was not.

      6. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: And all we can do...

        >It really is time to accept the result and move on.

        According to the official notices issued by DeXEU, the government are warning of a shortage of food and essential medicines (insulin for example, is not made is the UK). If you really, really want Brexit, how many people are you happy to have die due to shortages of food or medicine to get it?

        Personally, I think just one death should be enough for the entire cabinet (and key vote Leave figures) to face charges of corporate manslaughter (like any company would if their actions lead to the death of a customer) but I think they'll be immune to that.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: And all we can do...

          If you really, really want Brexit, how many people are you happy to have die due to shortages of food or medicine to get it?

          Average Daily Mail Reader: "All of the brown people! 'Twas we voted for, innit?"

      7. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: And all we can do...

        Nobody complained.

        Except for all the people going: this is a bloody stupid idea…

        David Cameron, when he was elected as head of the Tories said that it was time to stop fighting over Europe, eventually decided the only way to end the bickering was to offer a referendum, which didn't even stop the bickering…

      8. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: And all we can do...

        @Sproggitt

        It was a non-binding referendum. The sovereignty of Parliament means referendums cannot be legally binding in the UK, unless they specifically state they are:

        https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/the-culture-secretary-said-the-eu-referendum-was-binding-it-wasnt

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: And all we can do...

          They specifically stated they were.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: And all we can do...

            >You can always tell a remainer by the level of illiteracy and lack of understanding of UK grammar spelling and usage.

            Shall I correct you?

            "You can always tell a remainer by the level of illiteracy and lack of understanding of English grammar, spelling and usage."

            A minor grammatical error, but relevant nevertheless given your attempt to claim the moral high ground. And yes, there is no language called "UK". Actually, the way things are heading, there will soon be no UK.

            There is no correlation between linguistic competence and political views.

            And why didn't you just reply once? Were you drunk?

      9. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: And all we can do...

        The fact that this has been massively downvoted is a sure fire sign that trolls are out in force.

        A majority voted to leave.

        A MASSIVE majority of onlune trolls are active on internet sites pretending that they represent the 'will of the people'

        They don't. They represent the will of te EU and the globalists.

        Astroturfing is SO last century.

        1. WaveyDavey

          Re: And all we can do...

          The fact that your comment has been massively downvoted is because you are talking shite. I am not part of an EU conspiracy, I am a dev in West Yorkshire who thinks you are talking utter bollocks.

      10. Philip Hodges

        Re: And all we can do...

        "It is critical" is meaningless. So is "it really is time".

        It is no good if we "move on" ever closer to doom.

        The price far exceeds any promised or actual benefits.

        People thought the 1975 referendum was a one-time vote.

        Neither the 1975 nor the 2016 referendum was binding.

        The wording of the question in 1975 was "Do you think ...". A large majority thought, and voted to keep the 2 year old status quo.

        In 2016 the voters were asked for an opinion, without having to think. They were not told the true price. They were not asked why or how we should suddenly unravel 46 years of status quo and leave.

        Surely common sense and prudent housekeeping can be even more important than trying to respect every idiotic outcome of an imperfect democratic process.

      11. Keef

        Re: And all we can do...

        'Going in to the Referendum it was made very, VERY clear that it was a one-time vote with a binding result.'

        Absolutely and completely wrong. It was a non-binding referendum.

        I don't like using caps but I guess most commentards will get the emphasis without me shouting.

      12. MR J

        Re: And all we can do...

        Me and 4 pals had an argument on if curry was the best take-out food to get. We decided to find out what the best take-out food was by voting.

        Me - Curry

        Bob - Pizza

        Jim - Enchilada with Beans

        Sam - Curry

        Ray - Fried Chicken

        Tim - Fish and Chips

        Our testing led us to the startling conclusion that Curry is obviously not the best take-out food one could get. Only 40% of people were happy with Curry.

        Since then we have never had another meal together, because they think I am a Curriestie.

        Brexit is the same, numbers are bounced around the pro-Brexit papers but roughly...

        48% remain, 26% No-Deal, 13% Canadian-Style deal, 13% Norway-Style deal.

        Soooo, Yea, your correct, the UK has opted not to remain. Clearly a win.

      13. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

        Re: And all we can do...

        Going in to the Referendum it was made very, VERY clear that it was a one-time vote with a binding result.

        I'm sorry, but that is total tosh. When parliament voted on the enabling bill for the referendum, the preamble for the bill, which is available on Hansard, so you can check it for yourself, explicitly stated several things:

        - The bill was advisory

        - The bill was non-binding

        - For the bill to be made non-advisory and binding would require it to be re-written to require a super-majority and to include all UK citizens of voting age (which it did not, UK nationals living abroad for more than 10 years were excluded, skewing the results quite a bit)

        Just because David Cameron then stated that the result of the referendum would be acted on doesn't bind parliament in any way. The Prime Minister may be the leader of the house, but they are not the ruler of the house, and the other 650 odd MPs are elected to represent their constituencies, not their party, and certainly not the leader of the party with the most votes.

        The only reason the likes of May and Corbyn insist that the results of the referendum "must be respected" is that they know that for them to say otherwise would invite a political backlash against themselves. They have only their own interests at heart, not those of the country, which should be abundantly clear to anyone who has taken even a cursory glance at any politicians ever*.

        *Hyperbole aside, some politicians are worse than others, an my local MP is actually not too bad. Those that rise to the top, however, do so not because they represent the people the best, but because they are the best at rising to the top of politics, which requires an entirely different skill-set.

        1. streaky Silver badge

          Re: And all we can do...

          Non-binding referendum? Sure? Advisory? Sure. Advising parliament if they don't remove us from the EU they'll be removed from parliament forthwith.

          Not for nothing though if referenda are non-binding why is it the people who lost the first one and will lose the second one are so desperate to have another?

          I can't think of anything more dangerous for the UK than pretending that referendum didn't happen by doing nonsense like trying to keep us in the EU by the front door by keeping us in the single market and/or customs union or far more dangerous than that completely ignoring the result and keeping us in the EU or making an utter mockery of democracy in its entirety and having a second referendum but in case we do there'll be a UKIP majority in parliament within 10 years. It shouldn't need to happen, but it would.

          This is the stuff civil wars are made of and remainers need to settle down and we need all the remainers in cabinet to step aside so leaving can be run properly and competently because remainers like May plainly can't do it.

          You may now downvote me for speaking truth to stupid.

      14. DoctorPaul

        Re: And all we can do...

        "Move on"?

        Where to exactly?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: And all we can do...

          wherever you can get a work visa, obviously

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: And all we can do...

      And now, the official government advice for companies that may be affected by Brexit is to leave the UK and move their headquarters in the EU.

      https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/structuring-your-business-if-theres-no-brexit-deal--2/structuring-your-business-if-theres-no-brexit-deal

    5. streaky Silver badge

      Re: And all we can do...

      Noisy minority. Try changing people's minds by talking sense and there might even be an electoral map case for a second referendum - because there damn sure isn't one today. Even the backdoor second ref "vote on the options" only gives remainers a hard brexit. Keep the dream alive though we leave next march.

  2. DropBear Silver badge
    Pint

    Conjure up more energy from heck knows where for Yet Another Brexit Shouting Match or imagine the bliss of holding a cold one in a few hours...? Hmmm, choices, choices...

    1. Giovani Tapini

      Your cold one...

      You will only get your cold one if it is brewed in the UK and does not include imported ingredients. This may include, Hops, Barley or other items depending on your tipple of choice.

      If you go for the bottled sweet stuff these are often bulk imported and then bottled in the UK.

      I don't recall drinking from a glass made in the UK for a very long time, regardless of what was poured into it.

      I suggest you cache a few crates while you can if you really want to sit back and enjoy the fun of the UK shooting itself in both feet, painting its room black, and putting up an abandon hope sign on the door...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Your cold one...

        I thought UK beer was both warm and sour tasting

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Your cold one...

          It's not warm - it's just not chilled to the point where you can't taste it.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Your cold one...

        "You will only get your cold one if it is brewed in the UK and does not include imported ingredients."

        And doesn't require carbon dioxide in its dispensation.

  3. Andy Bell

    You'll have to go back a fair few years to find a better example of national self sabotage than the monmental self inflcited wound that is Brexit.

    1. ivan5

      The almost mortal blow was being conned into joining the political EU in the first place, something we never voted for.

      1. rtfazeberdee

        ROFLMAO ... <sarcasm>yeah right.. we really did badly from that </sarcasm>... stop reading the daily fail/express, you don't get facts from them

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Took a little while to find this but here you go: https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/daily-mail/

        I was born in 1975 so didn't take part in the last referendum, obviously. But it was made incredibly clear, both by politicians and in the press at the time, that increasing political union was the goal of the European project. It was still within 30 years of WW2 and the cold war was overshadowing the continent. Divisions were stark and union was correctly seen as a way of avoiding the situation that led to the rise of fascism and communism. There was never, ever any doubt that this was about political union and it would appear that although there were doom-mongers at the time (mostly from the left) the facts were better-presented than in 2016, which has proven to have been mostly lies.

        Do read the newspaper cutting in the link. This particular support for political union came from none other than the Daily Mail. Then again the editor at the time wasn't a don-dom billionaire tax dodger. Or mind you, he might have been; I have no idea who was editor at the time.

        1. bombastic bob Silver badge
          Pirate

          EU sounded great at the time it was proposed

          like many things I'm sure EU sounded great at the time it was proposed, and was supported by a majority, and opposed by a minority. Now it's the other way around.

          Just a thought. In U.S. history, the post 1776 government ['Articles of Confederation', which was too weak] was abandoned, and re-invented in 1787 (which we still have). Similarly, maybe it's time to re-think the EU? Unification wasn't a bad idea. How it was actually implemented, not so good. Typical of gummints.

          /me thinks of Brexit as a mild example of what would happen in the USA if the UN were to become "a government" and start imposing it's will upon us.

          rebellious pirate icon again

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: EU sounded great at the time it was proposed

            >like many things I'm sure EU sounded great at the time it was proposed, and was supported by a >majority, and opposed by a minority. Now it's the other way around.

            It's not as clear cut as that. The majority was slim, and there were plenty of people who didn't vote. And there were others who can't vote.

            Then there's those who don't really have a problem with it but voted out because they didn't like freedom of movement, and those who don't like it but knew that the government would fuck it up and we'd all be worse off.

            Your US analogy isn't quite right. What's happening is more like the state of New York leaving the USA.

        2. Loyal Commenter Silver badge

          I was born in 1975 so didn't take part in the last referendum, obviously. But it was made incredibly clear, both by politicians and in the press at the time, that increasing political union was the goal of the European project.

          Well said. It is, in fact, pretty much explicitly stated in the pre-amble to the Treaty of Rome, in 1957:

          Full text of the Treaty of Rome.

          But of course, to the quitters, facts and evidence are anathema. They are the purview of those horrible untrustworthy experts that Slithy Gove warned us about, after all.

    2. Lars Silver badge

      Some Brexit fun

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh0ac5HUpDU

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRAU6hODSck

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWqiGQyAj1I

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ha Ha

    I'm Irish and we're probably going to suffer as much of a hit to our growth as the UK (latest estimates are a 4% GDP reduction in year 2) so that'll knock us back from 5.6% to about 1.6% and you guys will go from 1.4% to....oops.

    Still, on a personal level I'm glad the CTA will allow me freedom to work and travel inside the UK while my passport will allow the same within the Union, hopefully I'll be able to pick up some contract work from displaced UK staff after the wall is built and the tunnel blocked. I'm not sure how I'll work it once the planes are grounded but we'll see.

    1. Len Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: Ha Ha

      I spoke to someone two weeks ago who had conducted a thorough analysis of citizenship rights, benefits and powers and ranked them from who would have the most beneficial position post Brexit to who would be most shafted.

      I don't remember all the levels but Irish Citizens came out on top. They keep their EU Citizenship and, thanks to the CTA, all rights in the UK they already had. All the way at the bottom were UK Citizens living in other EU countries, they only have the European Parliament fighting their corner and even that will probably end in March 2019.

      In the middle it sort of depended on what you value more. For instance, EU Nationals already living in the UK will keep their Freedom of Movement across 28 countries whereas UK Citizens will lose their Freedom of Movement. Then again, UK Citizens keep passive and active election rights in the UK (but lose them in the EU) whereas EU Nationals will probably lose them in the UK (but keep them in the EU).

      You, sir, are a lucky sod. Have a pint of import beer. -->

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Ha Ha

        Yeah - I was doing a little trolling in this post but I've actually got a lot of sympathy for my colleagues in the UK, especially those in countries that had a majority voting to remain in the EU. I'll raise a glass to you all from a pub in Dublin on Aprils Fools Day.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Ha Ha

        "I don't remember all the levels but Irish Citizens came out on top."

        What about UK citizens with Irish parentage or grand parentage?

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Ha Ha

        > whereas UK Citizens will lose their Freedom of Movement

        And possibly their jobs.

        I'm not hiring anyone in the UK who might be subject to some unknown visa process of unknown length and cost whenever they travel - when I can hire an Eu citizen in the UK that I can send to our customers in Germany at a moments notice.

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Ha Ha

          People underestimate the complexities of even visa-free business travel. Currently as a UK citizen I can visit the USA under visa-waiver for business:

          I can visit our USA office, but I can't do any work while I'm there.

          I can sell UK equipment, but I can't unpack or install it or supervise local staff doing that.

          I can train US customers and attend a conference or trade show - but I can't receive training without getting an educational visa. Try getting an educational visa to the USA for a one day training session at a conference!

          And this is only my reading of the official rules, whether I'm allowed in depends on how the guy on the desk feels about Brits that day. Now imagine these same rules applying to Europe, and remember that this is the best case of "visa free" travel.

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Ha Ha

      I'm glad the CTA will allow me freedom to work and travel inside the UK while my passport

      Except the cluelessness of the UK government is putting the CTA itself in jeopardy.

    3. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Ha Ha

      >I'm not sure how I'll work it once the planes are grounded but we'll see.

      Ryanair is an Irish company, so expect them to continue flights that don't need UK airspace: so that looks like you'll be able to fly Dublin-Cork, but not Dublin-Paris...

      Otherwise, there are the ferries...

      1. Len Silver badge

        Re: Ha Ha

        Airspace is not handled by EU agreements so an Irish airline like Ryanair could fly through UK airspace even with the hardest of Brexits. Dublin - Paris should be fine. The only thing that Ryanair risks is not being allowed to offer flights within the UK, Stansted to Aberdeen for instance.

        There is also a small problem that too many of Ryanair’s shareholders are UK Citizens, which would disqualify Ryanair as an EU airline. Just like BA they are expected to solve it by making those shareholders sell their shares.

    4. BinkyTheMagicPaperclip Silver badge

      Re: Ha Ha

      I'd say you're a lucky sod, and I wish that my Irish ancestry was a couple of generations closer so I could get a passport, however it really depends on what sort of deal the UK government do to get Brexit in.

      If they get it really wrong, Ireland could be a particularly nasty place to live (which also affects the UK, as terrorists can get on planes and ships, for the hard of thinking over here).

      As it is, I suspect that regardless of the Brexit outcome, the neutering of political independence of Northern Ireland will be accelerated, and the bigots in chief will finally have to accept same sex marriage, abortions, and ideally Not Being A Dick (sadly not a crime). You'll have some 'interesting' years ahead, just hopefully only shouting matches and political wrangling rather than a return to the Troubles.

      1. WaveyDavey

        Re: Ha Ha

        But, but, but ...

        I thought them terrrrrists couldn't cross water ! Or was that witches ? Can't rightly remember just now.

  5. hplasm Silver badge
    Meh

    Ha Ha sodding Ha.

    You must be kidding.

    Of course prices will go up- no matter what happens, in or out, hard or soft.

    Any excuse.

    And the sorry shower of bastards that are supposed to represent us don't give a hoot, as it doesn't affect their money one tiny bit.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    >the shape of that departure is still being negotiated by politicians

    And there's your problem, right there.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      negotiated?

      More like* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwO21W9AD3w

      substitute cherries for grapes and sausage machine for lemonade stand

      and Boris for duck

  7. tekHedd

    Oh no, it's 1999!

    Brexit is the new y2k bug.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Thumb Up

      Re: Oh no, it's 1999!

      heh - good one

  8. Simon B-52

    And other fairy stories...

    "and you can never take your Parliament at their word again"

    What do you mean "again" ?!

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    On the one hand, we have a bunch of people who want to leave the EU, one of which who has already killed one MP, threatening violence and civil disobedience if the will of the people is not enacted.

    On the other hand, we have a bunch of people who want to remain in the EU, and are about to have a load of rights taken off them by the government. And throughout history, governments removing rights from the population usually ends with dead members of the government and civilian population...

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      >usually ends with dead members of the government

      Yes, I do think we should have had a few MP's heads on poles outside Westminster; it would most probably very quickly sobered MP's up and got them to focus.

  10. Walter Bishop Silver badge
    IT Angle

    Tech industry preps for hard Brexit?

    These Brexit scare stories are a pretext to soften us up for a second vote, which will not necessarly work out in a remain vote. I fail to see the logic in blaming Brexit for any reduction in future trade between UK and the rest of the planet. Will the people of the kingdom stop wanting to buy goods, will other countries stop wanting to sell us stuff? Price hikes are a product of the global trade in currencies, something the control of which the nation-states gave up to the trans-national financial sector a long time ago. As someone once put it, Goldman Sachs rules the world.

    1. Len Silver badge

      Re: Tech industry preps for hard Brexit?

      The government’s plan is to rip up all the existing free trade deals with 60+ countries. They have convinced themselves that that is what some people voted for.

      Going from 60+ free trade deals to zero trade deals means actively throwing up barriers to trade.

      Therefore it logically follows that trade will become harder and will reduce.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Tech industry preps for hard Brexit?

        It's more than that. They think they can go to each country and say "You know that agreement we had when we were in the EU? Well here is another one which is more favourable for us and less for you. So please just sign here old chap, would you?"

    2. BinkyTheMagicPaperclip Silver badge

      Re: Tech industry preps for hard Brexit?

      Walter, you do realise that selling products from another country is more involved than 'give us some money' ?

      Yes, companies will still want to sell to the UK - *if* it's profitable to do so, and their market elsewhere isn't saturated. The changes in certification, duty, and import procedure will have an impact on the cost and delivery times.

      As the Tories are currently resisting maintaining the status quo with EU single market standards, this pretty much guarantees that at the absolute minimum prices will increase, because over time there will be divergence in UK and EU law.

  11. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    So boom times at Somerset Capital Management (London and Dublin branches) then?

    SCM supposedly specializes in "Emerging markets" and I think it's pretty clear the emerging market in the UK (for currency and commodities) is "chaotic"

    Excellent conditions for people who speculate in chaos to make large profits.

    No doubt Christmas will be a joyous time in the Rees Mogg household.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    We've only got the lawmakers to thank

    For what we are about to receive, we should be truly grateful.

    /sarcasm off.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: We've only got the lawmakers to thank

      Does Sir want some vaseline with that?

  13. itzman

    Conversation weit the MaYbot AI: or The Truth about Binary Choices

    "So Maybot, what are we doing about Brexit"?

    "Well we promised we would ;leave Europe, but lots of people want to stay, so we are going to compromise."

    "OK...How's that go?..

    "We are going to move to Doggerland".

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Conversation weit the MaYbot AI: or The Truth about Binary Choices

      Yes, we could get the Dutch to re-polderise Doggerland, create farms to grow crops, build sustainable towns following best Dutch planning practices, complete with energy efficient houses and a sustainable transport network, and allow any EU citizen (including British) with a job offer or otherwise able to support themselves to move there (as the Freedom of Movement principles already allow).

      Angry red-faced Brexiters would not be able to move in as they would lack the physical fitness to cycle up the slopes to the overbridges over the boundary canals and shipping channels.

      This all sounds a good idea to me!

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: Conversation weit the MaYbot AI: or The Truth about Binary Choices

        >Yes, we could get the Dutch to re-polderise Doggerland...

        <sarcasm>

        No we can't!

        That would involve giving Dutch/EU nationals special rights and as we know from the recent lobbying from Conservative MPs that (their personal) Brexit demanded that EU residents got treated no differently to non-EU residents.

        Now (if you talk to some friends/sponsors of the Conservative party, I'm sure they will point you in the right direction. I suspect that very cheap workers can be obtained from places such as Bangladesh; who's skills would be better utilised re-polderising Doggerland than preventing the inundation of Bangladesh.

        However in saying that, the only challenge I can see with re-polderising Doggerland is agreeing the border with the EU...

        </sarcasm>

  14. HKmk23

    Oh what a lot of whinging eurobootlickers we have here

    At last Britain has another chance of being Great Britain again. It is a pity we do not have our own Donald Trump to get our economy going as well as The USA is now.

    1. Richtea

      Re: Oh what a lot of whinging eurobootlickers we have here

      > At last Britain has another chance of being Great Britain again.

      This IS sarcasm, right?

      From the excellent link earlier to the Sir Ivan Rogers Cambridge speech

      Page 20 extract:

      As Xavier Bettel, the Luxembourg PM, summarised Brexit in a sentence better than anyone: “They were in with a load of opt-outs.Now they are out and want a load of opt-ins”. Spot on.

      And also well worth reading are the '3 brief confident predictions' - mid-page 20 onwards.

      1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        Unhappy

        Sir Ivan Rogers Cambridge speech TL;DR version

        Brexitieers (of whatever party, but mostly Conservative) were a bunch of delusional f**kwits who didn't understand how the EU works or why it was formed but did press (vigorously, at full speed) for the massive expansion of it, and the deepening and widening of it regulatory powers to create a single market (something some members of the ERG very conveniently forget).

        Brexitieers (of whatever party, but mostly Conservative) are still a bunch of delusional f**kwits, who believe they will be indulged, like spoilt children by some random adult who is not their parent and are about to discover that person has no incentive to do so.

        Unfortunately so are the rest of the British people.

    2. BinkyTheMagicPaperclip Silver badge

      Re: Oh what a lot of whinging eurobootlickers we have here

      Go on, tell us how GB is going to become great again.

      Invading other countries has fallen out of favour, and didn't work in 1956..

      Maybe you're thinking manufacturing - such as steel, that was undercut by Chinese steel, and EU steel import tariffs were vetoed. Who was the dastardly country that voted against the tariffs? That would be the UK..

  15. Harry Kay

    Will of the people

    Couple of points

    1. "The will of the people must be respected - we cannot ask them again." Of course, when it comes to general elections we ask them every 5 years (or less)

    2. Much of the vote was based on immigration - and hoping the Brexit would get rid of immigrants. Alas, most people want sub-continent and Afro-Caribbean people out - but as far as I know those countries have not yet moved to Europe.

    3. in 2016 several people said to me "too many immigrants, too many immigrants" A couple of answers I gave. "You are talking to a first generation immigrant right now." "Oh, I don't mean you - I mean all the others"

    Me: "do you ever use a Chinese, Indian , Italian etc restaurant?" "Oh all the time". "Well where do reckon they came form then" Me: "What about the sub-post office down the road" have you been in hospital lately - notice anything about the satff there". Them: turn on heel and walk away.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Will of the people

      on your point 2 - in the part of London that I lived during ref campaign, Leave supporters were openly telling British Asians that voting Leave would mean Europeans "sent home" and that this would "make more space for people like you". On one memorable occasion i heard a group of people explicitly being told that if they voted to leave the EU then immigration from South Asia would automatically increase as it was the EU controlling it, and that key restrictions would be lowered or even removed, with access to 'free' healthcare and housing "once Europeans stop taking our places".

      Strangely, there was also the guy in a local who was a very loud Leave campaigner who wanted the UK to leave the EU because there were too many halal shops, mosques etc, who was busy spreading the lie that the EU was somehow responsible for that .....

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