back to article Windows 10 passes 700 million, Office Mobile in a coma and Intune, er, cracks time travel

While Microsoft partied the week away in Orlando during its annual Ignite shindig, there was a significant lack of build news as Windows 10 crested an important milestone. And as Skype Classic reached the end of the road, other Microsoft apps also faced the axe. All quiet on the Redstone 5 front The big Windows 10 build news …

  1. Aladdin Sane Silver badge

    They'll hit 1 billion when Win7 goes EOL, as most companies didn't bother with Vista or 8.

    1. Version 1.0 Silver badge

      One reason for the slow Win 10 growth is that it tends to kill older devices when it gets installed.

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Unhappy

        hardly gangbuster growth

        for Win-10-nic. doesn't surprise ME in the least.

        From article: "With Redmond now very keen on Progressive Web Apps (PWA) and UWP having singularly failed to set the world alight"

        I would think that PWA has the potential to replace UWP with "yet another" 3-letter acronym "new, shiny" in Micro-shaft's eyes. Wishful thinking on their part, again. They obviously need a CLUE-BAT.

        'Progressive Web Apps' - yeah, THAT sounds _wonderful_. Wheeeee.

        I have a better idea: Promote Win32 _WITHOUT_ ".Not" with a subsystem that runs cross-platform _WITHOUT_ using Mono nor ".Not Core" nor any _OTHER_ "Micro-shaft Uber Alles" slurp infestation library. Admit the world wants cross-platform and deal with it. Make it easy for developers, particularly if they want to static-link in lieu of DLL hell.

        Yeah, like it'd be 2003 again! [before the '.Not' monster emerged from the bowels of Redmond, in which "this" kind of crap originally started and Micro-shaft jumped the shark]

      2. martinusher Silver badge

        Re: Older Devices

        >One reason for the slow Win 10 growth is that it tends to kill older devices when it gets installed.

        I've got a not-so-old system that I unwisely 'upgraded' to Win10 when it first came out. I lost some capability and a fair bit of performance (although the startup screens are pretty). I dug out an old Linux system for some support work recently but found it so much faster than the Win10 box that I keep it on standby -- typically by the time I've lost patience with Windows's slow booting and interminable disk waits I've got the Linux system up, opened the browser and found out what's wrong with Win10 *this* time.

        Workplaces use Windows because of institutional inertia. Personally, I've given up on it. Its got a better graphics interface than the old Linux box but when it comes to performance Linux wipes the floor with Windows, even when its running on a 15 year old processor with half the memory. Needless to say I won't be buying any more Win10 kit, anything new is likely to be Linux or a Chromebook.

        1. Danny 14 Silver badge

          Re: Older Devices

          we run w10 on the same PCs we ran W7 on and it runs the same. Core 2 duos with 4gb ram and a 120gb ssd.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      'They'll hit 1 billion when Win7 goes EOL'

      Maybe, maybe not.... When is Windows7 EOL?

      For now, its another three years after Jan 2020...

      If you've got the connections and checkbook etc.

      But.....

      If similar to XP lifespans, things could run longer:

      _____

      https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/06/windows_7_extended_support/

  2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Numbers

    The install base of Windows 10, however, remains stubbornly below Microsoft's lofty goal of one billion.

    Duh! While some companies are (finally! says Microsoft) moving to Windows 10, some of them are also moving some work entirely to mobile devices, or, ironically, to browser-based solutions. Ironic in that this was something Microsoft was championing from the early 2000s, albeit requiring proprietary ActiveX extensions for Internet Explorer.

    1. Persona

      Re: Numbers

      I always got the sense that Microsoft was not so much championing browser based solutions as saying "me too" to fend off Java that in the late 90's was being pushed by Sun as the paradigm shift that was going to kill off the desktop operating system by eliminating platform dependence....... Sun's words, not mine.

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: Numbers

        I always got the sense that Microsoft was not so much championing browser based solutions

        For browser, read Internet Explorer, but it was an early attempt at a single code-base for desktop or browser applications. Yes, it was an attack on Sun's model, but there was a bit more to it and it led to the XML-HTTP-Request that via AJAX led to the JSON that feeds so many "SPA" websites and their webview-based app siblings.

        1. Persona

          Re: Numbers

          "For browser, read Internet Explorer"

          I'm not convinced Microsoft cared that much about IE. They just wanted a browser that needed their operating system underneath it. By getting people to code for ActiveX on IE they were ensuring that they were coding to run under Windows. IE on anything other than Windows was very short lived particularly on Solaris and HPUX though it did live longer on MacOS but that was for a more contractual reason.

    2. Roger Greenwood

      Re: Numbers

      "...browser-based solutions."

      Sage are helping - they are pricing their cloudy accounting offering lower than an update. Guess where we're going next....

    3. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      Re: Numbers

      > requiring proprietary ActiveX extensions for Internet Explorer.

      Don't awaken the beast who sleeps in strange aeons.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Fevered

    >> The move has led to fevered Windows Insider speculation that maybe, just maybe, build 17763 is The One.

    These people need to seek medical attention.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Millions wear North Face...

    You get my point.

  5. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Meh

    Win32 is dead long live .Net, .Net is dead long live Silverlight, er, RT, er, UWP, er PWA

    MS has a problem with commitment. Not surprising developers just sit there watching the framework merry-go-round go round.

    1. DJV Silver badge

      Re: Win32 is dead long live .Net, .Net is dead long live Silverlight, er, RT, er, UWP, er PWA

      Yep, it spins way too fast and attempting to get on or off just means you get burnt.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Trollface

      Re: Win32 is dead long live .Net, .Net is dead long live Silverlight, er, RT, er, UWP, er PWA

      "Not surprising developers just sit there watching the framework merry-go-round go round."

      queue background music.... "You spin me right round, baby, right round, like a record player, right round, round, round..."

      [WHAT? 23 spins? THAT was just because of the apoplectic shock! I was STUNNED, I couldn't find the 'off' button fast enough!]

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Win7 'til I die!

    Windows 10 can reach the 1 billion mark for all I care, I won't be using it.

    1. Danny 14 Silver badge

      Re: Win7 'til I die!

      thats great but some of us had no choice. I might use w7 and linux at home but at work I have to support w10 and office 2016. Thats just life.

      1. hplasm Silver badge
        Unhappy

        Re: Win7 'til I die!

        "at work I have to support w10 and office 2016. Thats just life."

        That's no life...

  7. BGatez

    Win 10 win by attrition

    As new machines come with Windows 10 pre-installed their user numbers go up. Especially since installing Windows 7 on newer CPUs is made as difficult as possible (but can still be accomplished using a freeware patch). https://github.com/zeffy/wufuc

    1. tony2heads
      Linux

      Re: Win 10 win by attrition

      Win 10 was pre-installed on my home computer, but I looked at the news on data slurping and updates, so I installed Ubuntu.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Win 10 win by attrition

        Same here but with CentOS.

        Windows 10 is a POS and should be consigned to the history books with a note that says, this is how not to make a decent OS.

        Nanturally, YMMV

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Win 10 win by attrition

      You might think that but even Microsoft's own numbers don't seem to confirm. Looks like they're reaching the peak as PCs start to disappear from some places. Probably at home first: do you need a PC to play Fortnite? (Honest question as I've no idea)

      1. a_yank_lurker Silver badge

        Re: Win 10 win by attrition

        @Charlie Clark - For most, even in business, you can work very well with older kit. So if the ye-olde box is now occasionally used why replace it. Computers have become in many cases like an appliance; if it still works it does not need replacing. This is will stretch out the refresh cycle. Plus competition from others will be nibbling at the Bloat's market and usage.

        1. Danny 14 Silver badge

          Re: Win 10 win by attrition

          up to 7th gen intel (and amd equivalent) chipset wise. That gives you decent i5 offerings in the budget regions. There are LOADS of cheap optiplexes in this bracket.

    3. Updraft102 Silver badge

      Re: Win 10 win by attrition

      You can undo the Microsoft Trojan horse that sabotages updates on Windows 7/8 on newer architectures, but you may still be out of luck if you want to get everything working. I tried to put 8.1 on a newer laptop, and there appear to be no I2C drivers that work with the I2C on the laptop AND with 8.1. I can install I2C drivers in 8.1, but they don't work with the I2C devices listed in device manager, and I can install I2C drivers intended for 10 in 8.1 by force, the correct ones for the devices in question, but they won't work in 10.

      That's just one example... there are others. Microsoft seems to have gotten to hardware manufacturers too, ensuring that even things as innocuous as Synaptics touchpads (if new enough) don't have drivers for versions of Windows that people actually want to use (and yes, I include 8.1 in that, since you can fairly easily strip the stupid stuff out of 8.1 and make it look and work like a real desktop OS). You can force install the Windows 10 drivers into 7 or 8.1 by any of the usual methods, but they simply don't work, and neither will the 7 or 8.1 drivers recognize the device in question.

      Given the strong similarity of 8.1 and 10 beneath the user interface, I would guess MS and their servants (like Synaptics) intentionally made them incompatible, rather than to simply not list NT6.2/6.3 in the INF file (as was the case with the Intel integrated graphics driver for the Kaby laptop I set up).

      If Windows 10 was any good, they wouldn't have to pull these tricks to get people to use it, obviously.

  8. GrumpenKraut Silver badge
    Facepalm

    > https://github.com/zeffy/wufuc

    Do I understand correctly that the Windows Update checks for the CPU and, if a newer one is detected, just PRETENDS that things won't work?

    That would totally not be the underhanded shit we know from this fine company, honest.

    1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

      How is it underhanded?

      Those updates are not tested against your newer CPU, because that product is not supported on your CPU. Why would any company ship a release that they knew with 100% certainty had never been formally tested on a configuration. (Usual suspects, please resist the urge to look like a fucking idiot...)

      Most likely the updates will work, but maybe they'll screw your system performance too. Remember, most of the fancy low-power and clock-speed regulation features in the latest CPUs are completely invisible to Windows 7's kernel: you're basically running with whatever Intel/AMD sets those registers to at reset time.

      I understand why someone would prefer Linux to Windows 10, but then Linux is a modern, supported OS. Windows 7 isn't anymore. It's time to move on.

      1. Updraft102 Silver badge

        How is it underhanded?

        Are you really asking how it is underhanded for Microsoft to use the Windows Update system to distribute a Trojan horse that slips into your PC under the guise of being an update that "resolves problems in Windows," but that really sabotages that Windows installation so that it can never get any more updates ever again? MS is intentionally exposing their own users to malware infections because they're not following the Microsoft marketing plan that says that new CPUs must only run Windows 10, and it's not underhanded?

        If you think my use of the term Trojan horse is a little hyperbolic, it's not. It's dead accurate... a Trojan horse is a bit of malware that slips into the system pretending to be something positive or harmless, but whose real purpose is to do something malicious without the consent of the owner of the PC. That's exactly what the Windows Updates that break Windows update do. Microsoft is using the update system, which is supposed to be about protecting from malware, to distribute malware that makes the PC vulnerable to even more malware.

        There's a difference between "not supported" and "we will go out of our way to fsck your system up if you try it." The first one means you are on your own, while the second one indicates malicious intent. It's underhanded that MS would not provide the necessary drivers for the various newer CPU functions to work, particularly in 8.1, which shares most of the kernel architecture with 10 and was still under mainstream support when 10 came out. That MS would try to use that as a stick to flog people into 10 is already unethical and repulsive (as is the company itself). I ran my Core 2 Duo and Phenom II PCs on Windows XP for years, and these CPUs were officially supported in XP, even though they were Vista era architectures. MS did not block their use on XP to get me to use Vista... there are some things that are too much even for "Micro$oft."

        Well, not anymore, evidently. When it comes to abusing your own customers, the sky's the limit now. Oh, I sure do love that "new" Microsoft that everyone talks about as being so much nicer than the old Microsoft (the one that backported DirectX11 from 7 to Vista, since Vista was a close cousin to 7 and it was still under mainstream support at the time. Hey, that sounds a lot like the relationship between 10 and 8.1... still waiting for that DirectX12 backport on 8.1, Microsoft!).

        People aren't "moving on" to 10 because it's crap. It will be time to move on when people who feel trapped in the Windows platform see an option better than Windows 7. So far, there isn't one. Windows 10 is not a serious operating system, and as far as I am concerned, it's not even worthy of the slightest consideration, as it fails in the most basic, fundamental role of an OS: To enable the user to use the hardware to perform the tasks of his choosing, and to serve the owner of the PC in the manner chosen by himself. Windows 10 doesn't even approach that standard... it clearly serves only its real master, which of course is Microsoft. That renders it unfit for (any) purpose, from an end-user perspective.

        Of course, it's very fit for the purpose that MS made it for, which is taking control of your PC and monetizing it and its user mercilessly, pressing them into servitude to Microsoft in whatever manner they see fit. And this abomination is something that people are supposed to pay for? I wouldn't even take that crap for free. At least if it were free (including to OEMs), they could almost justify the level of monetization and the lack of control over one's own computer, as long as the paid (but affordable) version restored all of the control and single-minded service toward the PC owner (and no one else, not even its maker) that marks every decent OS. Sadly, that version doesn't exist... not even the enterprise versions meet that basic standard (a rather low bar, really). They come closer than consumer editions, but they're still unfit.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          chill

          you're absolutely right, BUT 1 billion flies can not be wrong! Can't blame MS for choosing the most efficient (= smelly) way to attract consumers (FREE SHIT!!!), after all pecunia non olet, etc.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    We didn't skip Windows 8 on purpose

    Our hardware refresh was delayed due to the kit being perfectly functioning so we saved a few quid. Now the desktops are finally being refreshed we're moving from Windows 7 PCs with mechanical drives to Windows 10 with SSDs and some additional RAM.

    Saved money by delaying which has more than covered the cost of the improved spec. This is in the NHS by the way.

    PS we did look at moving to Linux but clinical system vendors simply don't support it sufficiently.

  10. Psion1k

    Largest usage numbers . . .

    "the April 2018 Update was nearasdamnit at the 90 per cent mark in terms of Windows 10 usage. The figure is not quite as high as that achieved by the Fall Creators Update, but the speed at which 1803 rolled out is impressive nonetheless."

    This is hardly surprising. When MS finally enforced their support policy removing patch availability from the original versions of Win10, most people upgraded at that point to 1709, hence its high numbers, (1803 had only just been released, so was untested and thus to be avoided). It did, however, trigger an upgrade culture, by necessity. Coupled with the WannaCry outbreak basically killing WinXP, this pushed most of the world to the (then) current versions of Windows.

    Previously a lot of software vendors would not officially support the newer version of windows rolling out every 6 months, but now they have no choice. For the most part, businesses will not tolerate enforced security vulnerabilities caused by having to stay on old OS versions due to lack of vendor support in their programs . . . mainly due to legal liability, I suspect.

    Any vendor not offering support for the current OSes run a very real risk of losing their customer base to a competitor.

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