back to article Perfect timing for a two-bank TITSUP: Totally Inexcusable They've Stuffed Up Payday

It's Friday, it's payday, and UK online banking has once again come under fire, though if you're with TSB or HSBC you'll already know this. Reports of yet another British banking meltdown have been rolling in this morning. Of course the TSB app isn’t working on PAYDAY of all days fkn hell just let me see how much money I can …

  1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    The Treasury Committee should insist on banks reopenning branches instead of closing them until such time that they can demonstrate that their online options are secure and reliable. That way we can get back to good, permanent branch networks.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Not a lot of point really..

      The 'branch' is typically just :

      - a row of ATMs attended by a self-trained sharecropper with a clipboard

      - a row of unmanned teller windows,

      - one office which is used by the area manager for pressure-selling 'investments' to any customer who has sold a house recently

      Anyone who wants to do any actual banking in the branch is told to sod off and go online, unless they have sold a house recently and have a hundred grand or more in their current account, in which case the area manager will be desperate to set up a meeting with them.

      1. WallMeerkat Bronze badge

        Re: Not a lot of point really..

        Branches used to be handy for paying cheques in, from those backwards organisations like insurance companies that insist on paying with cheques.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Not a lot of point really..

          Cheques always work.

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Not a lot of point really..

          "those backwards organisations like insurance companies that insist on paying with cheques."

          Also those backwards organisations like HMRC if you don't want to waste time with their online ID stuff. SWMBO occasionally has to write out checks. She runs classes in a community centre where there's nobody to take her money and she certainly isn't going to send cash through the post.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Paying in cheques

          Paying in cheques? That's what ATMs (or post offices) are for, although some banks (interestingly, TSB not being among them) have somewhat primitive ATMs that don't accept deposits.

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Not a lot of point really..

        "a hundred grand or more in their current account"

        That explains it. Only about £90k and mostly in deposit. But that was Lloyds/TSB's attitude. It was a few years ago now so you might have expected the limit to have been less then. Anyway, I took their hint and did sod off; they'd already closed my preferred branch..

    2. Nate Amsden Silver badge

      Make sure those branches aren't dependant upon the same online services that keep failing.

    3. EBG

      agree

      Should be a condition of holdng a UK banking licence. And "proper" manned branches - not a line of self-service terminals.

    4. EBG

      oh and ...

      ... add a requirement that the IT is onshore.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Or alternatively you could switch to a building society

      Nationwide for example, when I was surveying for my daughters first account they were the only one willing not to pass details to equifax/experion, the rest insited upon it even without overdraft or any other method to debt.

      Banks screwing up is why your money is increasingly worth less than the materials it is made from, fine if it was gold but no so great when it is plastic

  2. Anonymous South African Coward Silver badge

    Nice way to start off payday....

    ...NOT.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    Rather that waste time tweeting...

    ...I'd change banks. Admittedly, that is harder work.

    1. Lee D Silver badge

      Re: Rather that waste time tweeting...

      Not really.

      Current Account Switch Guarantee.

      Go to new bank. Sign up. Instruct them to move your account over. They have a required number of days in which to do it, including all your existing payment arrangements.

      Including business accounts.

      If you're still with TSB now, I judge you.

      1. Avatar of They Silver badge

        Re: Rather that waste time tweeting...

        I think the OP might have been suggesting it is quite hard given where would you go. From TSB to? RBS, Natwest, Barclays and HSBC are all rubbish at keeping the app working. So the list of really good alternatives is thinning.

        And Lloyds / Halifax systems are only as good as India can write for them so I fully expect them to fall over very soon.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Rather that waste time tweeting...

          "And Lloyds / Halifax systems are only as good as India can write for them so I fully expect them to fall over very soon."

          They already are falling over. Halifax couldn't handle my change of address. I had problems with online purchases and my card address not matching the delivery address and statements and letters going to the old address. They told me a systems glitch had resulting in only some of their systems updating with my new address. They swore they'd fixed the problem only for more letters etc going to the old address. They said "oops" again, that should definitely not have happened again and said they'd definitely fixed the problem now. Guess what? More statements etc to the old address. Gave Halifax the boot then (I'd had other problems with their customer service / staff incompetence too) and I've just switched to Nationwide. Unfortunately, a week after the changeover, I still can't get into my new account online because they still haven't sent me a card reader for 2FA. Sigh. The words "frying pan" and "fire" spring to mind.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: Rather that waste time tweeting...

            Any card reader for any bank should work (although they're harder to find now as other banks have moved to shitty mobile-based authentication).

            Also, you should have an alternative way of getting in based on a PIN and a memorable word.

      2. anothercynic Silver badge

        Re: Rather that waste time tweeting...

        Absolutely seconding Lee here. Switch your account. Make sure you open your account as early in the month as possible, you do not want to do the account switch when your salary is due any day. Also, the switch guarantee does not guarantee within 6 days of account opening (be aware of this). It guarantees a switch within 6 days of you/your new bank *starting* the switch. This date is usually confirmed to you within a week or so of you opening the account.

      3. WallMeerkat Bronze badge

        Re: Rather that waste time tweeting...

        Last time I tried that, my old old bank (deliberately I reckon as it should've been a copy pasta) transposed 2 numbers of a direct debit, getting me into trouble with the company I was paying to.

        And then you need to jump through hoops to get your company payroll to acknowledge your new account, keep both open at least until the next payday to play "which account gets paid?" lottery, transfer money from one to the other, wait the requisite 2 days for a bank-to-bank transfer etc.

        Besides, all banks are useless, just by varying degrees. TSB, RBS and HSBC seem to be at the deep end, but they all have their issues (and don't get me started on Verified by Visa not recognising my new postcode, only allowing payments to my old address!)

        1. Lee D Silver badge

          Re: Rather that waste time tweeting...

          "And then you need to jump through hoops to get your company payroll to acknowledge your new account, keep both open at least until the next payday to play "which account gets paid?" lottery, transfer money from one to the other, wait the requisite 2 days for a bank-to-bank transfer etc."

          No... Current Account Switch Guarantee includes:

          "Redirect any payments accidentally made to your old account and get the sender to correct your details"

          So no... you switch, close the account, done. Not saying it's 100% perfect, but the only thing stopping you is your own paranoia about "what if my old bank..." which is exactly why you should switch away from them.

    2. SVV Silver badge

      Re: Rather that waste time tweeting...

      Knowing my luck, if I did move my account, the bank I'd choose would be the one which went down the following Friday.

      1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

        Try it anyway. You might get a pleasant surprise.

        And it is high time that incompetent banks started to smart with people effectiveley "voting with their feet".

        If you don't leave, TSB will continue to not give a fuck.

        Besides, you are aware that Customer Loyalty means nothing these days, aren't you ? Stick with a bank for twenty years and have a slight overdraw problem and your bank is going come down on you with penalties and fines just as they will for the guy who signed up three weeks ago.

        So fuck it, move. And if the next one fucks with you, move again. We need to get mobile, otherwise those doddering fools sleeping on the Boards will not even hear the sirens.

        1. Lee D Silver badge

          Exactly. Vote with your feet.

          I have eliminated most of the high-street banks that way. The one that survives has only had stuff that doesn't affect me (e.g. business banking problems), etc.

          However I also have a few of the more niche players on the sidelines ready to move all my accounts to if I should get disillusioned.

          1. tfewster Silver badge

            https://www.which.co.uk/money/banking/bank-accounts/best-and-worst-banks-a3q5d8c6dj7y - Last updated: Sep 2018

            However, TSB are 4th in that list, so I'd take it with a pinch of salt.

            I'd like to see banks & ISPs compensate customers for loss of their time rather than service; If an outage doesn't actually affect me, no problem. But if I can prove I spent 20 minutes in a call queue or running around to find a working ATM, I should be compensated for that. Even a few quid per complaint would help suppliers focus on customer service :-)

            1. katrinab Silver badge

              The problem with that list is that it only shows the total number of outages, with no weighting for severity. TSB had just one outage, which lasted the whole of the period and covered everything, so it gets a better score than a bank where you couldn't do faster-payment transfers at 2am for 10 mins on several occasions.

        2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          And it is high time that incompetent banks started to smart with people effectiveley "voting with their feet".

          There's the problem. Where do you find a competent bank to move to?

          1. Hollerithevo Silver badge

            Building Society

            Dr Syntax, I have moved from bansk to buildign societies and have that 'old-fashioned' bank feeling again: staff there who are happy to help, quick and good service, and I like dealing with a membership organisation.

        3. John Smith 19 Gold badge
          Unhappy

          "If you don't leave, TSB will continue to not give a fuck."

          Correct.

          And they won't until customers start moving and (OMFG) they might loose revenue.

          That is the only thing that will cause them to change.

          1. Tom Paine Silver badge

            Re: "If you don't leave, TSB will continue to not give a fuck."

            Er. And the CEO having to quit, and let's be honest, anyone involved with this at a senior level has it on their CV for the rest of their careers (if they still have one). And I think you'll find the FCA and PRA will be levying fines in due course.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Barclays problems too?

    Barclays online banking also seems to have a problem. Login works ok - but every time you logout Waterfox reports an SSL failure.

    Secure Connection Failed

    An error occurred during a connection to www.barclays.co.uk. SSL peer was unable to negotiate an acceptable set of security parameters. Error code: SSL_ERROR_HANDSHAKE_FAILURE_ALERT

    The page you are trying to view cannot be shown because the authenticity of the received data could not be verified.

    Please contact the website owners to inform them of this problem.

    1. john.jones.name
      WTF?

      simple questions for the banks

      here are some questions for banks :

      security : do you share any of your infrastructure with other providers ?

      (while in most applications its perfectly fine to use "cloud" multi tenant infrastructure in banking it would be decidedly risky i.e. imagine AWS had Meltdown and Spectre problems and you hosted SSL keys there)

      security : do you rely on shared or third party infrastructure for archival and compliance ?

      (imagine having a american or south african company vet all messages to see if they are genuine and archive all financial data then expect their systems to be run for your benefit solely)

      security : do you use up to date systems for communications such as IPv6 and DNSSEC ?

      (imagine thousands of users all behind one IP address i.e. CGNAT and if that system fails to interact with a institutions load balancers correctly you might find problems equally it could be SSL handshake problems, this can be solved by advertising IPv6 address's to mobile phone providers and world at large equally to prevent interference by third party pretending to be your website address it might be wise to employ DNSSEC to sign your DNS responses rather than let dodgy wifi providers steal children's money )

      have fun

      1. katrinab Silver badge
        Facepalm

        Re: simple questions for the banks

        "security : do you use up to date systems for communications such as IPv6"

        I hope the answer to that question is No, given that it is merely an additional attack surface, and serves no useful function. You still need your load balancing servers for the 99.999999% of the population that uses IPv4, and, because balancing loads is a Good Thing.

        1. john.jones.name

          Re: simple questions for the banks

          sorry @katrinab

          maybe you missed the fact that pretty much all mobile connections are IPv6 then translated to IPv4 by the carrier/provider ?

          that makes your 99.999999% not true

          (for example linkedin has about 50% of its traffic via IPv6 )

          Although if you think your attack surface is reduced by reducing the number of IP address's I think you have bigger issues...

          perhaps time to invest in some education ?

          1. katrinab Silver badge

            Re: simple questions for the banks

            Attack surface is reduced by reducing the ways you can reach it, ie only by IPv4 rather than both IPv4 & IPv6.

            1. john.jones.name

              IP address's

              > Attack surface is reduced by reducing the ways you can reach it, ie only by IPv4 rather than both IPv4 & IPv6.

              thats not how it works, just because a service is addressable via multiple IP address's does not increase or decrease its attack surface area

              in fact you REDUCE the problems by adding IPv6 since the consumers do not have to hide behind their provider (BT/EE/voda etc) they can communicate directly and the provider can deny individuals

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Outraged of Tunbridge Wells

    I do worry about people like “Chloe hastie”. How is a banking app being down going to cause her to “waste money this weekend”?

    1. Valeyard

      Re: Outraged of Tunbridge Wells

      re-read it. The idea is that she wants to waste money this weekend but doesn't know how much money there is to waste.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Outraged of Tunbridge Wells

        Ah, OK. Just fill up a credit card and worry about it next month if that’s your attitude to money?

      2. Steve Kerr

        Re: Outraged of Tunbridge Wells

        Or......and this is getting out there a bit...

        Go to a cash point and get a balance view!

        1. Killfalcon Bronze badge

          Re: Outraged of Tunbridge Wells

          Gods I hope you don't do Business Analysis, AC.

          "During discussions, user stated they 'can't wait for the weekend'. Added Requirement: System must respond within working week."

        2. WallMeerkat Bronze badge

          Re: Outraged of Tunbridge Wells

          Try and find a cashpoint in some towns. With bank branches closing. You might find one somewhere like a petrol station. Hope it isn't out of order. Hope the screen actually works. Hope that it hasn't been tampered with. Withdraw cash and it'll likely cost you £1.50 for the pleasure of accessing your money.

  6. Jay 2

    404

    Somewhat ironic that the HSBC telephone number has 404 in it, twice.

    1. steamrunner

      Re: 404

      Someone in IT or telecoms there has surely made that happen? "Error: your money has not been found."

  7. Huw D

    So, in a nutshell, all the major UK banks are equally shit.

    1. Korev Silver badge

      Pretty much. Although, HSBC didn't seem to be as bad as the others*

      *According to my unscientific memory of outages

      1. katrinab Silver badge

        Yes. I think this is the first.

        Having said that, their App has one of the worst interfaces around.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      So, in a nutshell, all the major UK banks are equally shit.

      I don't know, isn't Revolut a UK bank too? So far, that has worked well and it's the first time in my life that a credit card refund shows up only a day after it was issued.

      1. katrinab Silver badge

        Revolut is a prepaid card, not a bank.

        If I want to transfer €500 from my UK bank account to my Italian bank account, Revolut is a lot cheaper than doing it directly from bank to bank, and a bit cheaper than the likes of Transferwise. But in my experience, their customer service isn't that good.

      2. Dan 55 Silver badge

        If you want to entrust your money to something which claims it is a bank but doesn't have a banking licence or a FSCS guarantee, go ahead and use Revolut.

        There are other challenger bank options which do have those (Starling, Monzo, Metro).

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          If you want to entrust your money to something which claims it is a bank but doesn't have a banking licence or a FSCS guarantee, go ahead and use Revolut.

          As I'll be meeting Revolut's big cheese in a few days from now, that is a good question to ask, especially because that meeting will be attended by some serious heavyweights in finance whom I know not at accept BS.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Apparently they use Lloyds and Barclays as fund repository, and your protection derives from there.

  8. steamrunner

    Banking Continuity and Dosh Recovery?

    Anyone in IT should know that the answer to handling failure, particularly on pay/payroll day, is to have a backup: in this case, by having a second, independent bank account and payment card(s). Keep a month's — or more — emergency cash in there and just pray that both institutions don't go TITSUP on the same day... oh, wait.... :-)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Banking Continuity and Dosh Recovery?

      Mattresses are ideal for money backups. Our local charity shop used to take credit cards for purchases over £5 - but now says "cash only".

    2. Korev Silver badge

      Re: Banking Continuity and Dosh Recovery?

      Keep a month's — or more — emergency cash in there

      Sadly, many people in the UK are so hard up that is effectively impossible for many

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. IsJustabloke Silver badge
          Meh

          Re: Dosh Recovery

          @Ac

          The problem is that there are fewer actual banks to go into, those that do have very limited amounts of cash to hand and in a lot of cases the staff don't actually have access to the cash

      2. steamrunner

        Re: Banking Continuity and Dosh Recovery?

        "Sadly, many people in the UK are so hard up that is effectively impossible for many"

        Sadly, yes, this is unfortunately very true, and I know my suggestion doesn't help those people at all — and they are the one's who likely need help the most when banks f*ck them over... I mean, when banks fail them. But that is, also unfortunately, another story; one that would take us off into the deep and unfathomable swamps of political and society discourse. Let's not go there today... :-(

        SB

  9. Victor Ludorum

    Could be bit more widespread...

    My Halifax and one of my Lloyds credit cards also temporarily refused to show current balances and transactions. The Halifax online banking even reported something along the lines of 'error message to show customer that transactions cannot be retrieved from system at this time'. It now seems to be working again.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Could be bit more widespread...

      Given they are both part of LBG and run on the same systems, you don't have the resilience you might think you have

      AC as I used to work there

  10. Bodestone

    HSBC have been having issues for a while. My creadentioals for the app were wiped out on the 17th of this month.

    I escalated my call and 40 minutes and a complete online credential reset later it was back.

    They offered me £15 for the inconvenience so of course I was immediately suspicious it was part of a larger issue.

  11. taxman
    WTF?

    Too much a coincidence?

    One or two banks perhaps, but so many different businesses within a short space of time should make one think is there more to this than meets the eyes? Or is that just my normal suspicious self?

    Still, glad I never made the decision to move over to using a mobile application. Never liked or trusted them.

  12. caffeine addict Silver badge

    Doesn't First Direct use HSBC's infrastructure? Does this mean that their smug video has bitten them in the arse?

    1. Avatar of They Silver badge

      True

      They were originally HSBC but spun off a while ago. My FD app works fine today.

      1. Victor Ludorum

        Re: True

        first direct's website still says 'first direct is a division of HSBC UK Bank plc. Member HSBC group.' at the bottom.

  13. Pete 2 Silver badge

    The future is coming!

    TSB down, HSBC inaccessible.

    Earlier in the week it was the turn of Natwest and Barclays to prevent their customers from accessing their money.

    The cynic (where? here? nah!) might suggest that this is part of the softening up process for BREXIT. When financial turmoil will become the new black.

    Possibly time to find a shoebox that will fit under the bed and to start stuffing it full of hard currency.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The future is coming!

      "Possibly time to find a shoebox that will fit under the bed and to start stuffing it full of hard currency."

      The way things might be going - a large suitcase may be a more reasonably sized receptacle.

      1. katrinab Silver badge

        Re: The future is coming!

        Hard Currency means Euros, Swiss Francs, Australian / NZ / Canadian Dollars. Not British Pounds.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The future is coming!

          "Hard currency" means hard cheeses, hard breads, & hard to acquire bottles of booze. The better to barter with!

      2. Tom Paine Silver badge

        Re: The future is coming!

        The whole point of using a hard currency is that it's not subject to hyperinflation. An box of eggs may cost £10 in six months time but in principle they'd still be worth $1.49 .

    2. not.known@this.address Bronze badge
      Pirate

      Re: The future is coming!

      Pete 2, most of the banks support REMAINING IN the EU so would be doing all they can to publicise that aspect of things if that was their aim.

      But as they want people to forget that it's the oh-so-smart, oh-so-wonderful banking institutions that have been responsible for every financial collapse since they were allowed to set their own rules, they will carry on doing everything they can to minimise publicity while maximising profit.

      Just like normal.

    3. katrinab Silver badge

      Re: The future is coming!

      "Possibly time to find a shoebox that will fit under the bed and to start stuffing it full of hard currency."

      Or in my case, a Eurozone bank account.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    HSBC Mobile App

    Working fine for me so just a temp glitch?

  15. Korev Silver badge
    Stop

    Banking privacy

    Many of those tweeters are using what appears to be their real name. Why on all earth would they make life so easy for identity thieves?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Banking privacy

      Because the offence is fraud against the bank, not identity theft. The bank is culpable, not the individual if money is taken from the account under such circumstances. The bank would have to refund the account.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Banking privacy

        And banks have never been known to wriggle out of covering fraud...

        Why make it easy in the first place?

      2. Tom Paine Silver badge

        Re: Banking privacy

        That's all true except for the word "because". I doubt any of those tweeters are aware there's any sort of potential security issue with telling the world who they bank with under their real names.

  16. Insommy

    Not the only ones - Barclays is down as well

    Barclays web site is down as well - SSL Certificate error

  17. steviebuk Silver badge

    Welcome to...

    ....the cloud. It's a bit overcast today so you may not be able to login.

    I'll get my coat.

    1. tfewster Silver badge

      Re: Welcome to...

      Where's the silver lining?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Welcome to...

        Where's the silver lining? It's not silver, it's the shiny side of my tinfoil hat!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Welcome to...

      Welcome to...

      ....the cloud. It's a bit overcast today so you may not be able to login.

      I'll get my coat.

      That had better be a raincoat because this cloud is raining on us.

      1. James O'Shea Silver badge

        Re: Welcome to...

        That's not rain.

  18. Mark 110 Silver badge

    TSB seems to be up

    Just logged in

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: TSB seems to be up

      Don't worry, it'll be down again at the end of next month. They have the same problem every single month.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It's simply all about money, so go nuclear.

    Send a message to the banks by reverting to cheques and cash, rely on standing orders and direct debits, uninstall their apps and disable internet banking which will also make your money more secure. If they can't look after you on payday then setup your payments so they fail when the bank fails and the bank will have to reimburse all your costs and notify the failed recipients, this costs them money.

    The directors are earning their bonuses based on the number of customers they can get out of branches so they can close them, so make them pay. When they can't close any more branches they will make sure their alternative arrangements work better.

    It will mean queuing at the branch which will lead to lower satisfaction levels. The British love a queue and will soon join it, the last time queues were out of the door there was a run on the bank causing it to close as per Northern Rock though admittedly this was due to lack of cash.

    Make sure you raise a formal complaint too.

    On second thoughts, it's easier to change banks.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: It's simply all about money, so go nuclear.

      "On second thoughts, it's easier to change banks."

      I was with you up to this point - sort of. But the real problem is that they've dead-heated in the race to the bottom so none of them are worth changing to. But the reason I was only partly with you is the increasing difficulty of getting cash. There are no banks or building societies in my preferred location since YBS closed their branch. Elsewhere they're getting thinner on the ground.

      Hence my post at the top of the list: the Treasury Committee need to force the bar stewards to provide a service. Imagine of one of them was put on a rolling 3 months notice to pull their socks up or lose their license.

  20. Version 1.0 Silver badge

    Banks can improve reliability

    All it would take would be for the regulator to require that banks pay their customers when they are TITSUP - a hundred quid a day per customer would make them fix the problem.

  21. Toltec

    Not following the logic

    Let's say I have an account with one of those banks, why would I have known about this problem before seeing this article?

    I've had an email from the bank this morning, but no mention of system problems, just a marketing shot.

    Does everyone else check their balance several times a day? Am I missing out on something?

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: Not following the logic

      A lot of people do.

      For example, if you live payday to payday, you can't go shopping to buy this month's food until you've been paid.

      If you're in the "gig economy", you won't even know how much you'll be getting paid until it arrives.

      And if you're trying desperately to escape this poverty trap, you'll be wanting to know how much was left from last payday to move it into your saving account.

      Or to work out how much you're going to have to take out of your savings to survive this month.

  22. qwertyuiop
    WTF?

    Payday?

    ...It's Friday, it's payday...

    WTF? Payday? Have I been asleep for two weeks? Is it the 15th of October already?

    Not everybody gets paid at the end of the month...

  23. Daedalus Silver badge

    You can't get the wood, you know

    I'm willing to predict that the bozocalypse will be felt in the UK earlier than in other countries, simply because of the talent for brilliant incompetence that is so widespread there.

  24. malfeasance

    The last friday of the month

    Is generally payday; so yeah, this is aggravating on a lot of levels for a lot of people

    Now, I am not trying to defend HSBC; but isn't this the "first" that HSBC mobile/web banking has gone away for an extended amount of time, which if you regard the time difference between the twitter post 0749 and the first PR response 0830; let's give it at least a couple of hours before PR spin is actually true; then a reasonable expectation is that by 1100 we're in a vaguely working state That isn't awful...

    I know that collectively we are impatient and we want to know what we want to know right now; but it's a bit like the "looking at the finger pointing at the moon".

    I have accounts with most of the high street operators; HSBC isn't the even close to the most unreliable of them; mind you, I am not of the ilk that wants to manage all my accounts on my phone whenever the whim takes me (seriously, why have the temptation to make a payment when you're down the boozer setting sail for shores unknown). Set a IFTTT to remind you to pay the man, when you walk within 50metres of your house...

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: The last friday of the month

      "a reasonable expectation is that by 1100 we're in a vaguely working state"

      TSB customers would ask you 1100 on which day. I think the consensus view is that if they don't get shouted at they'll do nothing.

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge

        Re: The last friday of the month

        You mean which year.

        TSB online banking still hasn't started working properly even for one minute.

        Perhaps it will once the load becomes manageable - as there's only two customers left...

    2. Joseph Haig

      Re: The last friday of the month

      TSB had outages on the last Friday of July and August. Both of these were 'planned' but only announced a few hours before and, as mentioned in this article, the last one didn't come back cleanly. I'm predicting this new coming round again on 26th October.

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I don't get it... TSB have been having problems for sometime now, I know - I used to have both personal and business banking with them.

    But after the first set of issues, I made plans to transition to a new bank.

    Since then they've had several more major outages - and yet people still bank with them?

    It's easy to move a personal account, and with a little planning not so difficult to move a business bank account - leave them. Run! Get out!

    If they don't have any customers, then they can have one last final forever outage.

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      It takes several years to close some types of account.

      Current accounts and instant access savings are the only ones you can switch in less than a month.

      And in the case of current accounts, who do you even go to?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It's amazing what 5% current account interest and £10 per month for using your debit card and having direct debits will do.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Super childish

    I know its childish and mean and would cause a lot of people a lot of issues but I would be highly amused if when TSB get their app back online some meanie were to DDOS the crap out of them just for kicks.

    They do need to be made an example of....

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Meh, it could be worse..

    you could have banked at Wells Fargo.

    https://www.corp-research.org/wells-fargo

    November 2009 it had to agree to buy back $1.4 billion in auction-rate securities to settle allegations by the California attorney general of misleading investors

    In July 2011 Wells Fargo agreed to pay $125 million to settle a lawsuit in which a group of pension funds accused it of misrepresenting the quality of pools of mortgage-related securities. That same month, the Federal Reserve announced an $85 million civil penalty against Wells Fargo for steering customers with good qualifications into costly subprime mortgage loans during the housing boom.

    In November 2011 Wells Fargo agreed to pay at least $37 million to settle a lawsuit accusing it of municipal bond bid rigging.

    In July 2012 the U.S. Justice Department announced that Wells Fargo would pay $175 million to settle charges that it engaged in a pattern of discrimination against African-American and Hispanic borrowers in its mortgage lending

    In January 2013 Wells Fargo was one of ten major lenders that agreed to pay a total of $8.5 billion to resolve claims of foreclosure abuses.

    In December 2014 FINRA fined Wells Fargo Securities $4 million as part of a case against ten investment banks for allowing their stock analysts to solicit business and offer favorable research coverage in connection with a planned initial public offering of Toys R Us in 2010.

    In March 2016 the SEC charged Wells Fargo with defrauding investors in a municipal bond offering to finance 38 Studios, a Rhode Island startup video game company founded by former Boston Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling that eventually went bankrupt, leaving the state on the hook for $75 million in debt.

    In April 2016 the Justice Department announced that Wells Fargo would pay $1.2 billion to resolve allegations that the bank certified to the Department of Housing and Urban Development that certain residential home mortgage loans were eligible for Federal Housing Administration insurance when they were not, resulting in the government having to pay FHA insurance claims when some of those loans defaulted

    In September 2016 the CFPB imposed a fine of $100 million against Wells Fargo in connection with the revelation that for years bank employees were creating more than two million new accounts not requested by customers, in order to generate illicit fees.

    In a separate case, Wells Fargo agreed to pay $50 million to settle a class action lawsuit alleging that the bank overcharged hundreds of thousands of homeowners for appraisals ordered after they defaulted on mortgage loans.

    In July 2017 it was revealed that more than 800,000 customers who had taken out car loans with Wells Fargo were charged for auto insurance they did not need.

    In May 2018 Wells Fargo agreed to pay $480 million to settle a class action lawsuit filed by shareholders accusing the company of making false statements about its business practices.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Meh, it could be worse..

      I thought the baddies were meant to rob the bank , not run it.

  28. Christoph Silver badge

    Don't worry, they'll sort it out

    Once the banks succeed in completely abolishing cash, you'll no longer be in deep trouble when the banking systems fail.

    You'll be utterly buggered.

  29. Fazal Majid

    British banks seem particularly bad at IT

    You don’t hear about anywhere as many incidents in other developed countries.

    An artifact of outsourcing culture fostered by the liberal-arts elite that runs the country, perhaps?

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: British banks seem particularly bad at IT

      What about the Belgian bank that went down and wanted customers to use email?

  30. Insommy

    Barclays website is down as well

    Getting a SSL TLS Error - even from the report a problem site !

  31. CanaDave

    Not just app HSBC!

    HSBC online banking also down for at least an hour this morning. It's up again .....for the time being.

  32. Ian Emery Silver badge

    The difference between a real bank and TSB

    A REAL bank (in this case HSBC) fixed the issue within 2 hours of being notified.

    TSB might get around to fixing it before NEXT pay day (or might not).

    My personal experience of TSB suggests they couldnt find their own arse, using both hands, a mirror, and a map app.

  33. DaveB

    Prove it

    "We're aware of an issue affecting some of our customers when they are using our mobile app and Internet Banking this morning,"

    This standard statement really gets me angry. It suggests its not a general problem but a problem suffered by a small group of customers.

    I think that when they issue such a statement they should be required to provide hard facts as to how many users can login and how many cannot.

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: Prove it

      It only affects customers who have attempted to use their services during the past X hours.

      So unless the bank services die totally for a week and then never fully recover, that's only a small proportion of customers.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Prove it

        I bet a much higher percentage of customers log in around the end of the month, which is when TSB always goes down.

  34. RancidRodent

    The usual moronic "experts"...

    As usual the "experts" were on the radio talking woes about "legacy" systems with these traditional high street banks - you can bet your mortgage the "legacy" systems were whirring away just fine with 99.99% availability as usual - it'll invariably be all the Nintendo shit bolted on the front end that went wrong. When a whole Azure region went down a few weeks ago taking thousands of apps with it - was that a "legacy" issue? Not wait, it's all state of the art stuff - what about Amazon when it went titsup on Prime day? Oh - not a "legacy" computer in sight.

  35. Tom Paine Silver badge
    WTF?

    It's the end of September 2018...

    ...and now you're considering switching away from TSB? Because the mobile app's playing up for a couple of hours?

    Users... can't live with 'em, pass the dry roasted.

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