back to article The grand-plus iPhone is the new normal – this is no place for paupers

So. The £1,000 iPhone X was not an aberration – Apple wants it to be the new normal. A grand is the new "mid-range". Yesterday Apple discontinued its budget iPhone SE and unveiled new models costing £1,500. Since relatively few people switch between platforms, Apple's growth relies in part from making more money from people …

  1. Craigie

    Apple ecosystem

    What is that exactly? iTunes? I honestly don't know what Apple offer in way of an 'ecosystem'.

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Apple ecosystem

      Any accessories, content and services you use with the device all add to Apple's revenues and make it harder for you to leave. You'd think this might discourage people from choosing Apple but it seems to encourage them because choice is hard.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Apple ecosystem

        Any accessories, content and services you use with the device all add to Apple's revenues and make it harder for you to leave.

        I'm not sure that you can call something that actually works well a "lock in". What matters for me most is that all Apple gear talks open standards so it talks to almost anything Linux too. Integration is easy and the costs of the gear vanish when you compare it against hours saved.

        Unless, of course, you use MS software on it. From a usability perspective that's like driving around with a Porsche with the handbrake left on. The only reason we have a few installs is Excel..

        1. jmch Silver badge

          Re: Apple ecosystem

          "Integration is easy and the costs of the gear vanish when you compare it against hours saved."

          That's a very important point for many users. I'm not saying that Apple is necessarily saving users time, I don't know enough about Apple products working together to know that... but it's not inconceivable that good integration and things working first-time with little or no configuration required will save - hours over the lifetime of a device.

          Also look at it from an enterprise POV. Employee costs are by far larger than capital IT costs, so why wouldn't a business spend say 1k/yr to optimise it's HR investment of 100k/year*

          *An employee with 50k/yr is typically costing that business 100k/yr

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Apple ecosystem

          I'd love to know how you get an iPhone to talk to Linux! There's no iTunes for Linux, nothing similar that I'm aware of that can speak to an iPhone, and you can't even beam files, etc over Bluetooth (yes, I really hate AirDrop, a solution looking for a problem).

    2. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Apple ecosystem

      Peripherals, services, and 3rd party software. The high street is awash with 'made for iPhone' headphones from Sennheiser etc al. There are also more niche hardware such as external microphones, Leica survey equipment, 3D scanners and cameras that work over Lightning.

      Games and software tend to come to iOS first, because the platform is less fragmented, iOS users have more money and so spend more on apps, and Android software is easy to pirate.

      1. greenawayr

        Re: Apple ecosystem

        "iOS users have more money and so spend more on apps"

        Correction - A fool and his/her money are soon parted.

        It's a status symbol.

        And given today's world of now, now, now and credit, credit, credit. I'd suggest it is a huge mis-judgement to assume that someone is rich because they own an iPhone, more that they are easily fleeced.

        You know how rich people become rich? They don't spend all their money.

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: Apple ecosystem

          > . I'd suggest it is a huge mis-judgement to assume that someone is rich because they own an iPhone

          It's not an assumption. There have been reports on the Register to that effect, and testimony from app developers on other websites to the same effect. Depending how varied your social circles are, you can support this anecdotally.

          I'd suggest, no, state, that your assertion that I made an assumption is itself an assumption.

          1. greenawayr

            Re: Apple ecosystem

            @Dave126

            I've read those same reports.

            There's no financial background to give credence to them. It's all based around the fact that people who own iPhone will more readily part with their money. That, by no means, makes them rich.

            I know lots of iPhone owners, I've been one in the past. Some are in well paid jobs, but spend all their money on these material items, some have plenty of money, some have borrowed to the hilt.

            It takes all sorts, but I maintain, that until someone actually does a full asset check on a good sample of iPhone owners, that these "reports" are no less anecdotal than my previous paragraph.

        2. werdsmith Silver badge

          Re: Apple ecosystem

          Correction - A fool and his/her money are soon parted.

          It's a status symbol.

          Of course it's not a status symbol. Every chav has one, they are everywhere and there is nothing special about them.

          The reason that Apple phones sell so well is the alternative. If Android was half decent Apple would be nowhere.

          1. WallMeerkat Bronze badge

            Re: Apple ecosystem

            "Of course it's not a status symbol. Every chav has one, they are everywhere and there is nothing special about them."

            Exactly, it's a status symbol to chavs, they all need one. A bit like burberry or Audi.

            1. mickm

              Re: Apple ecosystem

              But I've got an Audi and a Galaxy S9+!

          2. pɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ

            Re: Apple ecosystem

            Of course it's not a status symbol. Every chav has one, they are everywhere and there is nothing special about them.

            I guess you don't understand what a status symbol is. but one thing it is not is something that is "special".

            every chav may have an iPhone because it is a status symbol among chavs, but dont think the chavs go and buy them from the crapple store, its an overpriced contract, that gets defaulted on and a payg sim installed in it...

            and lets face it, the iphone has always been a premium priced product. anyone who was going out to buy one, it would make little difference if it was £1000 or £800. The price of other handsets is not ever going to come into it.

          3. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Apple ecosystem

            "If Android was half decent Apple would be nowhere"

            Android is just fine, though as with everything, buyer discretion will reap better results.

            I wouldn't claim Apple is nowhere, but your dismissal of Android is slightly odd, given how many sales of Android phones there have been.

            You seem to be presuming that 1) Android is shite and 2) Apple are the market leaders.

            The only thing premium about iPhones is the price. They're not even the top selling phone in terms of hardware.

          4. Anonymous Coward
            FAIL

            Re: Apple ecosystem

            Android marketshare 86% Apple marketshare 14%

          5. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Apple ecosystem

            > The reason that Apple phones sell so well is the alternative. If Android was half decent Apple would be nowhere.

            Apple has 12% of the smartphone marketshare. There's a list of features that I've come to really appreciate on Android phones. Apple doesn't seem interested in "innovating" those. I couldn't care less about Face ID. My wife and I would both love an Apple Watch, but not enough to want to switch to iPhones.

            https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/08/28/gartner_smartphone_sales_q2_2018/

        3. CaptSmegHead

          Re: Apple ecosystem

          Meanwhile, over in Hong Kong, customers are limited to 3 devices in a single purchase

      2. J27 Bronze badge

        Re: Apple ecosystem

        iOS software is just as easy to pirate, but less people do because most Apple users don't care about spending a few pounds on an app because they have the money. Most Android piracy is done by people who can't afford those few pounds, so how could they afford the iPhone in the first place?

        1. gnasher729 Silver badge

          Re: Apple ecosystem

          "iOS software is just as easy to pirate, but less people do because... " it involves jailbreaking, and you have no idea if your jailbreak is sponsored by the Chinese or by the NSA.

        2. pɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ

          Re: Apple ecosystem

          Most Android piracy is done by people who can't afford those few pounds

          what an odious pile of shite.....

          most software piracy is done by people because they can or because they are fed up of buying shitty software that does not work as advertised so will try it, if it works will buy it...

          even kids don't bother pirating software because most games on mobile devices are free and you just pay for extras....

          music piracy is near enough non existent now that music streaming services are a reasonable price so not worth the effort of piracy.

          piracy has never really been about price, its mostly because you can.

      3. anothercynic Silver badge

        Re: Apple ecosystem

        The user experience in the Apple world is more consistent between releases, and as much as it is tightly controlled, it helps stability-wise.

        Going from Cyanogenmod on Oneplus One to their horrible own-brew OS, to Samsung's special brews, to Android generic, Android experiences are in some instances jarring and discombobulating. If Nokia manages to make their Android UI experience as consistent as Apple's, I am very tempted to switch to Nokia instead.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Apple ecosystem

        iOS users have more money

        Not once they've shelled out for the phone...

    3. Joe Gurman

      Re: Apple ecosystem

      Pretty much everything Apple makes plugs and plays together. For those who like them, being able to display that mobile game on your TV via an Apple TV or play music on any speakers that support AirPlay(2) and so on and on, without any user configuration, is a plus and, yes, a selling point.

      I know its a hard sell to people who regularly read this site, but most punters really do not want to be bothered with fiddling with configuration.

  2. disgustedoftunbridgewells Silver badge

    Jesus Tapdancing Christ.

    £500 was a justifiable luxury. £1500 for a phone is ludicrous. That's £62/month just to repay the capital for a 2 year contract. at 20% APR, that's £90/month.

    Plus a phone plan and you're looking at over a hundred pounds a month.

    For a phone.

    On the average salary, after tax, that is roughly 6% of take home pay for something which will depreciate almost completely over the two years.

    1. anthonyhegedus Silver badge

      "On the average salary, after tax, that is roughly 6% of take home pay for something which will depreciate almost completely over the two years."

      No, it doesn't depreciate almost completely after two years. iPhones hold their value remarkably well. Everything else you say is spot on though.

      1. Adam Jarvis

        The depreciation/value after two years will vary on use, depends on how well you look at and you really need to add AppleCare to those prices if it's a 'real phone' used day in, day out for business purposes.

        Remember too, there are unlucky folk that drop this phone in the same week they bought it and will break it, who will have to continue to pay that contract for 2 years until paid off.

        Some people obviously buy it as a trophy phone, while other do actually see it as a business asset that is self-financing to some degree.

        I think this year's line up of phones offer better value than Apple's previous year's offerings, all said. 7nm chips are a big deal (more than was made of it, at the keynote), they will certainly help regards battery life and crucially, battery wear.

        1. ThomH Silver badge

          As recently as 2016 I was sitting in a Wetherspoons waiting patiently for somebody in an unremarkable part of London Zone 5 when a young man of questionable affluence joined his family and the next table and launched immediately into his big news with a "you'll never guess what. They accepted me!", to much admiration, surprise and celebration.

          A couple of minutes later, I finally got enough pieces to work out what he was talking about. He'd been accepted onto a contract plan for an iPhone.

          I'm a big fan of mine for reasons not worth relitigating, but it is such a trophy phone for some that it's apparently worthy of going out on a financial limb. I don't claim to understand that. Especially not as recently as 2016, a long way past when Apple was the only consumer premium phone brand.

      2. the Jim bloke Silver badge
        Holmes

        have you considered

        That perhaps the reason older iPhones hold their value - is because they are better than the latest offerings?

        It is certainly a recurring theme on the pages here

    2. Gordon 10 Silver badge

      Agree with everything you say except the depreciation on iPhones (and most apple tech) is substantially less than nearly any other brand. So whilst you might depreciate it fully as an accountant, in the real world 1 year old iPhone X's are going for north of 700 quid for a BIN auction. Refurbed iphone 8's are going for 75% of new prices. (All on ebay).

      If you are smart and careful with your iPhone you can probably get away with a £300-400 investment every year to stay "hip".

      Not for my tastes I went Android (phone only everything else is Apple) years ago but a lot of people may care enough to do it.

    3. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

      @disgustedoftunbridgewells

      Jesus Tapdancing Christ.

      The grandson of a friend is an apprentice Motor Mechanic, aged 19, he does not earn much. His biggest out goings are his car insurance - around a £1000 with a black box, but, he is fed up with it and is thinking of renewing without a black box - apparently around £2500. And then his other big outlay... whatever the latest, all singing all dancing, iPhone. Why an iPhone - because all his friends have one. He certainly has money to burn

    4. anothercynic Silver badge

      £1500 *is* ludicrous, agreed. I already had this argument last year with friends who just *had to* have the X... Oh the first day. Despite complaining how expensive living in Los Angeles was.

      However, I disagree with your depreciation argument. When did the iPhone6s come out? Have a look on eBay for a decent-condition iPhone6s and you'll find that their value remains still surprisingly high for a phone of its vintage. It's holdouts like me who probably keep the market alive! ;-)

    5. Roopee

      For a phone

      @disgustedoftunbridgewells

      Surely you realise that for many, if not most people (especially if you include other countries such as China and India) their phone is their one and only personal computer.

      How much do you spend a year on your personal computer(s) I wonder? For most of us here I'd wager it's more than £90 per month. Richer people buy nicer computers generally, because they can, but they don't really do anything different with them. Phones are just the same.

      Incidentally I've just bought a new iPhone SE on eBay for £190 - get one while you can, I suspect they will be in short supply soon, now that they are 'obsolete'...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: For a phone

        For me, i think it was around 4 years ago I bought a laptop for my wife, just over £1000, so that's £20/m, that last computer I bought for myself was god knows how many years ago. I bought a 8800GTX so must be around 12 years ago. I use an old dell E6320 i7 laptop that was thrown out from work, so cost me nothing.

        Last phone I bought was 3 years ago, probably one of the last few users of the lumia 950, so thats around £10/m that cost me so far.

        I am looking at getting a new phone, a huawei or a xiaomi, but kind of dreading going back to android after using the windows phone, it was a far better interface compared to android.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: For a phone

          I am looking at getting a new phone, a huawei or a xiaomi, but kind of dreading going back to android after using the windows phone, it was a far better interface compared to android.

          LOL, you forgot the joke icon....

          still, very funny....

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: For a phone

            Sorry no joke, I used android phones before, moved to windows, thought what the hell did i do, used it for a while, saw it was very user friendly. The changes going from 8.1 to 10 were not great. I have used android while having a windows phone over the years too and I do not like it at all, clumsy, not intuitive, windows 3.1 ish interface

      2. Wincerind

        Re: For a phone

        £90 a month on a personal computer????

        You must be mad, or renting it. I'd wager that "most of us here" built our own computers for about £90 total, probably a number of years ago.

        And if I were stupid enough to pay £1500 for a phone I would expect an all risks new for old swap out lifetime warranty.

    6. billdehaan

      When my first gen 2014 Moto G finally started to give up the ghost three months ago, I looked around, and rather than buy another "value" (ie. cheap) phone, I bought myself a Samsung Galaxy S7.

      Of course, I bought it refurbished. With a three year warranty (it is a refurb, after all) and taxes, it was still under Cdn$400, which is about £235 as of today's exchange rate. It meets, and in fact by a wide margin it exceeds, my needs.

      I've got a voice and SMS pay as you go service, data free, which costs me Cdn$25 (£15) per year for minimum service, though sometimes I use twice, and possibly even three times that.

      I know people who spend nearly Cdn$300 a month on their data plan. And that doesn't even include the frigging phone.

      Unsurprisingly, many of these people who complain of overage charges see nothing wrong with yakking for 45 minutes on their cell, standing less than 10 feet from a landline that has no cellular limit. Or watch movies on their phone by streaming on the subway every day to work, because it's "too much effort" to remember to download a local copy off Netflix/Amazon the night before. So they end up spending $15 in data charges to stream a movie that's $12 to see in the theater.

      And that's Apple's markets. Of course they're going to fleece them for everything they possibly can. I believe it was Barnum who stated that it was morally wrong to not separate the foolish from their money, and that could be Apple's mission statement these days.

  3. Duncan Macdonald Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Typical Apple

    Selling overpriced tat to idiots.

    Like a Rolex watch it says that the owner can afford to throw money away.

    1. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

      Re: Typical Apple

      Well...a luxury watch will at least hold its value over time, and maybe even appreciate if you buy the right one. An iPhone is just a piece of consumer electronics which will become outdated in a couple of years...you could probably chart its decrease in value on a month-by-month basis.

      1. Flywheel Silver badge

        Re: Typical Apple

        "you could probably chart its decrease in value on a month-by-month basis"

        There should be an app for that! It'd run in the background and occasionally advise you when your phone had depreciated and more importantly, when to buy its replacement!

      2. Forkboy

        Re: Typical Apple

        I've resold my iPhones for years. They hold their value amazingly well if you take care of them. I sold an iPhone 6 with a broken screen once for hundreds of euros to someone who wanted to fix it himself. An android phone in similar condition would've been a write-off.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Typical Apple

          But to get the same quality of Android phone, you would have spent £400 less.

      3. pɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ

        Re: Typical Apple

        Well...a luxury watch will at least hold its value over time

        Very true, but the only Rolex watches that will appreciate now are vintage models.

        people with real money to spend on trinkets are now buying watches that there may only be one or two made in a single design.. somthing like

        https://www.cabestan.ch/winch-tourbillon-vertical/

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Typical Apple

          the only Rolex watches that will appreciate now are vintage models.

          I'd disagree. Mine in only about 15 years old (I bought it new) and it's valued at more than I paid for it.

          1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

            Re: Typical Apple

            Is that more than you paid for it, including inflation?

            Something that cost £2k 15 years ago and is still worth £2k has lost value. A back of the fag packet estimate would make that about a third to half its value lost - I'm too lazy to look up the average inflation rate and calculate it properly.

            1. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

              Re: Typical Apple

              Is that more than you paid for it, including inflation?

              Yes

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Childcatcher

      Re: Typical Apple

      >Like a Rolex watch it says that the owner can afford to throw money away.

      Even if I was rich I'd still be stingy bastard and I wouldn't pay stupid prices for Apple shit so I can go and smash it up in front of my kids.

      Are you listening, Kirsty ?

      1. disgustedoftunbridgewells Silver badge

        Re: Typical Apple

        But how will you get on the news showing off how rich you are that you can smash up two ipads?

    3. Khaptain Silver badge

      Re: Typical Apple

      If you keep you Rolex serviced it might last for several generations and probably gain in value.

      Rolexs are hand crafted mechanical devices, Iphone are just chinese mass produced consumables.. You can't compare them.

      If you know anything about watches you would also realise that Rolex are actually a top notch manufacturer, their service is first class and they produce watches using top quality materials, many of which are in house made, including their usage of their own perfected steel.. It's anything but tat.

      1. Warm Braw Silver badge

        Re: Typical Apple

        You can't compare them

        You can: they both perform a basic primary function at a cost orders of magnitude greater than is necessitated by their purpose. Why they cost more is irrelevant. The reason people pay the increased cost is much the same.

        If you keep you Rolex serviced...

        ...you will merely add to its inflated lifetime cost.

        1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

          Re: Typical Apple

          For the price of servicing a Rolex, I could buy another watch. I'm wearing a (very nice looking) 20 year old Tissot that I was given, that's probably about £200 to replace. All I've spent on it is £5 for a new battery 5 or 6 times. At the point it needs servicing, I'm probably best replacing it.

          So the cost of ownership of a Rolex is pretty damned high - and though they don't plummet in value, I'm not sure they even keep pace with inflation, let cover their huge servicing costs.

          Which is fine if you can afford it, and that's what you want. But I think it's a bit silly trying to jusitfy it as an investment.

          There's a bit more reason to justify the purchase of an overpriced iPhone. Which isn't as massively overpriced as a Rolex, being only 5x the price of a good basic alternative and not even double the price of the top-of-the-range Droids. If you've got iPads and a family iTunes account, apps, and maybe some Apple music or video - then it's not ludicrous to pay more for the convenience of all that. And some people hate learning a new OS so much, that moving to Android would be quite disruptive to their life. I'm thinking of a colleague here who probably makes 30 calls and 50 emails a day on his iPhone - so for him it's an essential productiviy tool.

          Myself I think any phone over £250 is over-priced, given that technology advances in phones have slowed down so much in the last 5 years. Apart from a Galaxy Note or Blackberry, if you need the specialist stylus/keyboard.

      2. quxinot

        Re: Typical Apple

        >If you know anything about watches you would also realise that Rolex are actually a top notch manufacturer, their service is first class and they produce watches using top quality materials, many of which are in house made, including their usage of their own perfected steel.. It's anything but tat.<

        Their bracelets sure are crap, though. Compare a Submariner's bracelet against a Seamaster and you'll wonder why people buy Rolex.

        (The watch heads themselves are absolutely lovely, though.)

      3. gerryg

        Rolex != Apple because of tax avoidance

        A Rolex or any other such "hand crafted mechanical device" benefit from a capital gains tax exemption .

        HM Revenue & Customs regards them as “wasting assets” and does not charge Capital Gains Tax on the profits made when they are sold, provided they have not been used in the course of business.

        Assuming they are over fifty years old or treated as long term investments they have become instruments of tax avoidance

      4. pɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ

        Re: Typical Apple

        Rolexs are hand crafted mechanical devices, Iphone are just chinese mass produced consumables.. You can't compare them.

        to be fair, cheap mass produced made in china tat over time will by % appreciate more than most things.. look how much mcdonalds happy meal toys cost, but now a pristine collection of Disney merch is worth a fortune. and dont get me started on beanie babies.. that said I did make a few quid on a clear out of those !!

      5. This post has been deleted by its author

  4. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Devil

    Eff off Apple

    No ideas apart from gluing it up more and raising the price every year.

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Eff off Apple

      This year does seem to be a one-way bet: bigger, more expensive and with a fucking notch. I think the notch will have a particularly polarising effect on the market with the fanbois fervently defending the flaw with others actively looking for display without one.

      Oh, and topping out at 512 GB hands Samsung a win for the storage freaks, and making the Note 9 look like a bargain.

    2. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: Eff off Apple

      Extra glue and price have worked really well for Apple. I expect more of the same next year.

      1. Voyna i Mor Silver badge
        Headmaster

        Re: Eff off Apple - Extra glue and price have worked really well for Apple.

        I was told off recently by a cabinet maker for calling "glue". He says glue is what you make from inedible bits of horses. What Apple use is adhesive.

        Don't give them ideas. "This year's iPhone is more environmentally friendly than ever...and can be recycled by cockroaches."

        1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
          Devil

          Re: Eff off Apple - Extra glue and price have worked really well for Apple.

          I thought lasagne was what you made from edible bits of horses.

          Not that I object to the nice bits of horses for dinner. It's as nice as beef. Given my success last time I went to the races, I'd probably do better to eat the horses and bet on the cows...

        2. Updraft102 Silver badge

          Re: Eff off Apple - Extra glue and price have worked really well for Apple.

          I was told off recently by a cabinet maker for calling "glue". He says glue is what you make from inedible bits of horses. What Apple use is adhesive.

          It's just like the car fanatics who bristle when someone calls the thing in the car that makes it move a "motor". "A motor is powered by electricity," they say.

          As a motorist, I get in my product of General Motors and motor down the motorway, being careful to follow the Motor Vehicle Code, down to the place to have my motor oil changed, and then on to the Department of Motor Vehicles to renew my motor vehicle registration. A lot of people didn't consult the car guy before naming a lot of stuff!

          An internal combustion engine is a type of motor, but not all motors are internal combustion engines. Mo- refers to motion or movement, -tor refers to a device that causes something. Since car engines cause movement, they're motors.

          Similarly, "glue" is another word for an adhesive, generally applied in a liquid or semiliquid form. Super glue is cyanoacrylate adhesive, and is completely synthetic. Gorilla Glue is a polyurethane product, also containing no animal bits. Elmer's School Glue, too, is free of animal by-products. Then there's the hot-melt glue... you get the picture.

          It makes no more sense to say that glue only refers to congealed animal tallows when used as an adhesive than it would to say that the stuff books are made of is not paper, since paper is the stuff made from papyrus plant stems cut into sheets and dried. It may have been the first form, but not the only one.

          1. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

            Re: Eff off Apple - Extra glue and price have worked really well for Apple.

            @Updraft102,

            nice rant but you may not have noticed that I was constructing a joke about recycling, based on what someone actually said to me. I really didn't need all the instruction.

  5. ARGO

    "The XR is dual SIM – although one is an eSIM slot."

    From the Apple website, all three new models are dual SIM. China and Hong Kong versions have two physical SIMs, everyone else gets one eSIM plus one physical SIM

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Yep, came here to note that.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      An esim, so not a sim at all... Another thing idiots who buy contracts will love.

  6. Rupert Fiennes Bronze badge

    SE gone - so am I :-(

    I bought an SE 18 months ago. I figure it will become unusable in 2-2.5 years. At that point, I figure it's time to go Android: I don't want a massive phone, I'm fed up with having a Lightning port instead of a USB, and I have no interest in something costing a minimum of a grand. I think Apple is running out of road...

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

      The SE wasn't announced alongside other iPhones in Autumn, but in an early Spring event - so there's hope yet for an SE 2. Will there be an SE 2? Hard to tell, gotta balance Apple's desire to sell phones to kids and those people who love the form factor, and their desire to have all apps developed for a narrower range of screen sizes.

      A grand isn't Apple's minimum - the 7 and 8 models haven't been discontinued, and start at £450 - admittedly a big chunk more than the SE's £250.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

        "and start at £450 - admittedly a big chunk more than the SE's £250."

        With the SE starting at £250, I can just about justify my offspring having an iphone and being able to communicate with it's friends on facetime, so long as the offspring contributes some of it's own money, and therefore knows to be careful with it's device.

        At £450, my offspring can damn well do without.

        1. TVU Silver badge

          Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

          "With the SE starting at £250, I can just about justify my offspring having an iphone and being able to communicate with it's friends on facetime, so long as the offspring contributes some of it's own money, and therefore knows to be careful with it's device"

          A lot of young people I know start off with this Apple phone and that hooks them in to the Apple ecosystem. Killing off the iPhone SE will also kill off a lot of purchases from younger people and then they won't be there to buy into the more expensive phones because they never got locked in in the first places. A bad decision by Apple (far too many of them recently).

      2. simon gardener

        Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

        The SE was £350 on the apple store until they disappeared it yesterday.

        In recent months they were clearing the channel through 3rd party retailers at huge discounts - I got mine for £199 at giffgaff a month ago - just checked still available.

        Great smart phone at a stunning price.

    2. The Pi Man

      Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

      Don’t give up, my 5s is just over 4 years old and works absolutely fine.

      1. rg287 Bronze badge

        Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

        Don’t give up, my 5s is just over 4 years old and works absolutely fine.

        So is mine. But if it went for a swim tomorrow I was rather hoping I'd be able to buy a 2017/8-spec upgrade it rather than a second hand SE.

      2. Richard Scratcher
        Gimp

        Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

        I'm still using my 5S. I was pleased when the similar sized SE was announced but never bothered to upgrade. I think all the >5 iphones are just too big. I want to be able to carry a phone in my pocket without looking like I'm pleased to see everyone... that shouldn't be hard.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I want to be able to carry a phone in my pocket ... shouldn't be hard.

          I want to be able to carry a phone in my pocket without looking like I'm pleased to see everyone... that shouldn't be hard.

          Wait, which part shouldn't be hard?

      3. JeffHannan

        Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

        The 5s is still up to date, and runs like brand new. If you don't need the latest thing, and are willing to stick with your phone for a few years, iPhones are very good value for money. I gave up on Android devices as after 2 years they were practically unusable.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

          "I gave up on Android devices as after 2 years they were practically unusable."

          - me too, and Windows phones were just as bad. My SE has already beaten them all, and iOS 12 will not only support the SE, it promises to make it faster. I watched some of the Apple presentation and noted that they are committed to extending the life of their products. You don't get to $1T market cap without very happy customers!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

      At that point, I figure it's time to go Android

      I'm sure you won't regret it. I know a few people who have made the jump and most have been impressed that their new Android phone has all the latest features that their iPhone had...then I point out that most of those "latest" features have actually been on Android phones for years.

    4. Tabor

      Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

      “I think Apple is running out of road...”

      Are they really ? They sold a lot of the original X, which didn’t come cheap either. As long as people buy them, I expect we’ll see more of the same. Maybe the next iteration will be “only 1999 !”.

      I’m on an iPhone now, and I expect the next one will be one of similar. Never the newest shiny though, I expect it will be 2022 before I get an XS. Maybe I’ll fork over 450 for an iPhone 8 next year (but only if the 6S is no longer supported). I have considered a Droid (many times), but I can’t be bothered to faff about with setting one up and migrating the stuff I have. So I’ll just continue paying the Apple tax. At the very least I’m reasonably sure to get updates for a while, and don’t have to make sure that each app and all the data it contains are backed up.

      My ideal scenario is that the best selling device Apple has in the next 6 months is the iPhone 7 or 8 (both in volume and in profit), so that they get the hint and go back to reasonable pricing.

      1. gnasher729 Silver badge

        Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

        "Are they really ? They sold a lot of the original X, which didn’t come cheap either. As long as people buy them, I expect we’ll see more of the same. Maybe the next iteration will be “only 1999 !”."

        The original iPhone X is replaced with the iPhone Xs, which as far as I can see is quite similar but with lots of improvements, so you get a better phone with the Xs, for the exact same number.

        The big Xs is the same, just bigger. You pay a bit more for the size. You have the choice to buy either tons of storage or a shitload of storage for extra money, but that is your choice. Being able to spend tons on 512 GB doesn't mean the phone has become more expensive.

        And the Xr is £750. It's a lot, but Apple replaced the high end of their range. Like Mercedes selling a bunch of new S-class models, and everyone complains about the price, while all the cheaper models stayed the same.

        1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

          The big Xs is the same, just bigger. You pay a bit more for the size.

          Nice definition of a bit more! Still, it's your money.

      2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

        They sold a lot of the original X

        Not as many as originally expected, but still a lot. As Andrew says, it was the cheaper phones that they sold more of and these are being pulled to try and force people who want to stay with Apple to buy a more expensive phone.

        My ideal scenario is that the best selling device Apple has in the next 6 months is the iPhone 7 or 8

        I suspect you may be disappointed because of the notch. Apple is making it clear that all phones should have a notch. Personally, I think Jobs would not have been happy with the notch. But time and the market will tell.

      3. pɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ

        Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

        At the very least I’m reasonably sure to get updates for a while,

        dont be too sure about that..... older iphones, the only update is the os number goes up, and the icons and emojis change. oh, and they may slow your phone down because the battery may be shite....

    5. Allonymous Coward

      Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

      I nearly shelled out on a £200 SE (giffgaff) just the other day. Went with a Moto G6 Play in the finish, but in some ways wish I'd done the iPhone. I don't like phones the size of tea trays.

      Main reason I didn't was wondering how much life the SE would have in it in terms of updates given it'd been out a while (yeah yeah, I know Android is terrible for this too), also the battery size. It's a great shame that Apple seem to have exited the £200-£300 small form factor space.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

      Don't worry, they will release, in a few months, the "X" version of the SE. I wonder what will they name it...

    7. Forkboy

      Re: SE gone - so am I :-(

      As an SE and Mac Mini owner I feel your pain. I don't really want to do Android and Linux but at some point I'm going to have to I think.

  7. Voyna i Mor Silver badge

    It's the Oxfam effect in action.

    Oxfam discovered it was cheaper to try and get more money out of existing donors than to find new ones, so they annoyed me into not giving them any money at all. But clearly it worked well for some people.

    Apple, in fact, is betting on a static pool of increasingly well off people. Given their ability to afford the very best economic and social advice, I think we should all think about that and be afraid. 1789 and all that.

    1. Spazturtle Silver badge

      Re: It's the Oxfam effect in action.

      Very few people are swapping platforms at this point, and people are using the same phone for longer and longer, both Apple and Samsung are now targeting the £1000 price point. Meanwhile you can get phones that are almost as good from other vendors for £200 which also last multiple years, people used to get a new phone every year, then every 2 and now people are keeping phones for 5 years. Apple and Samsung can still make money selling a new phone to somebody every 5 years for £1000+, but what happens when people start buying phones for £200 and keeping them for 5 years? Xiaomi are launching in the UK soon so the cheap phone market is about to explode in the west.

      The western market has been fully realized and exploited (in the financial usage of the word), and now they are trying to do the same to India and China. But what happens then when people in India and China start keeping their phones for longer and longer as the benefits of upgrading become very incremental?

      Is the smartphone industry a bubble?

      1. WallMeerkat Bronze badge

        Re: It's the Oxfam effect in action.

        "Is the smartphone industry a bubble?"

        Look what happened to the PC industry when suddenly an old computer can do exactly what most people want - web browsing, light office work. And tablets being the new thing.

      2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: It's the Oxfam effect in action.

        Apple and Samsung can still make money selling a new phone to somebody every 5 years for £1000

        I don't see that happening. Once you stop "upgrading" every two years because you're happy with what you've got, the money you're not spending on shiny, new phones gets spent on other stuff and, when time comes to replace the phone, for whatever a reason, a premium device probably won't be on the shopping list.

        If Apple can convince its users to continue spending then good luck to them but I think they will start losing a few.

      3. DougS Silver badge

        Re: It's the Oxfam effect in action.

        but what happens when people start buying phones for £200 and keeping them for 5 years?

        They get p0wned because they've gone 4 years without a security update?

        1. Spazturtle Silver badge

          Re: It's the Oxfam effect in action.

          "They get p0wned because they've gone 4 years without a security update?"

          Cheap phones from the likes of Xiaomi tend to get many years of security updates.

    2. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

      Re: It's the Oxfam effect in action.

      1789 and all that.

      Probably quite an accurate prediction for the RRP of the next new phone from Apple

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I can get XS Max 512 GB at bargain £1449!

    As that is the actual price, not £1499.

    Still ludicrous of course, but let's get the facts straight.

  9. steelpillow Silver badge
    WTF?

    Margins

    The problem for Apple is that raising its top-end price by 500 dollars merely doubles its existing $500 margin, say. For its cheaper Android competitors, doing the same knocks their slimmer $100 margin up by a factor of five. Instead of having to sell five times as many to make the same profit as Apple, they now only have to sell twice as many. Not sure how smart Apple are being here.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Margins

      Eh? Many Android vendors would dream of a $100 dollar margin on each unit sold. If they added $500 to the price they'd sell next to nothing.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Margins

        "Many Android vendors would dream of a $100 dollar margin on each unit sold."

        Yeah, my android phone cost me £30 without a contract...

    2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: Margins

      steelpillow,

      That's true, but the Android sellers can't even double their margins, because there's always another Android seller in competition. And also because they, and their rivals, have so many cheaper models which are "good enough" and so cannibalise sales.

      Apple have got this nice niche of customers who are happy with the UI, and don't fancy change. In the case of my colleague his last non iPhone was a Windows Mobile 5 device (HTC I think). Which was clunky and required a stylus (as smartphones did back then) - and I suspect his opinion of Android is coloured by how hard to use the first few iterations of Android were. Or maybe messy is better than hard to use? My experience of Android 2.3 was not entirely happy, and I've been through iPhone and am currently stuck on Windows Phone - waiting for the handset to die and test the waters of £200-£300 Droid.

      People hold on tight to nurse

      For fear of UI's horribly worse...

  10. Andy Tunnah

    Even for apple tax, this is vile

    Around a quid a gig to go from 256 to 512. What in the everloving shit.

  11. Flak

    Time to switch platforms

    Having had Apple phones since the advent of the iPhone 3, I switched to Android a couple of months ago due to a series of unfortunate events where my iPhone 6 screen broke and I had it replaced at a non-Apple shop, followed by the battery dying and Apple refusing to do the swap unless I accepted the risk of needing a screen replacement, too, for an extra £127 (I think) over the battery replacement price.

    While taking some time to get used to an Android device, I have made a decision not to buy Apple products anymore as they have simply priced themselves out of the market (certainly the market segment I see myself in) - and I haven't looked back!

    1. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: Time to switch platforms

      Interesting how it works. I really don't like iPhones and iOS but use one because it's the only choice. I've given Android plenty of chances, every time they bring out another silly name release like Oreo or whatever, I get one and try and live with it but it ultimately ends up in the bin.

      Really hoping for Sailfish to take off.

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: Time to switch platforms

        I really don't like iPhones and iOS but use one because it's the only choice.

        How do you figure that. Android isn't perfect but it's perfectly good for nearly everything I need.

    2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: Time to switch platforms

      In my opinion the iPad is still the best value tablet, but the iPhone prices have got silly. Then again so are the top-end Droids.

  12. Ikoth

    Exchange rate

    I'm more disgusted by the $999 = £999 bullshit.

    No wonder their market valuation hit 1 trillion.

    I wonder if any of my UK travelling American friends fancy a spot of shopping...

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: Exchange rate

      The US uses different frequencies, no?

      1. Ikoth

        Re: Exchange rate

        My phone works fine when I go there...

      2. Velv Silver badge
        Boffin

        Re: Exchange rate

        Frequencies do vary around the world, that’s why most phones are “quad band” or similar and are capable of operating in most countries “roaming”

        Given the radio chips are all made by a tiny number of suppliers it’s just as easy to put a world capable radio in than have specific radios for specific markets.

        If only there was a standard... you know, something like a Global Standard for Mobile communication... or something issued by the International Telecommunications Union for the Third Or Fourth generations of device

      3. DougS Silver badge

        Re: Exchange rate

        The US uses different frequencies, no?

        They have a single SKU for the whole world, so you can buy your iPhone anywhere and use it anywhere. I wonder how many iPhones in the original sealed box I could pack without resulting in arrest when customs at Heathrow opens my luggage? It could pay for the trip, and then some :)

        Just a few gifts for my friends in the Reg readership, I swear officer!

    2. gnasher729 Silver badge

      Re: Exchange rate

      "I'm more disgusted by the $999 = £999 bullshit."

      Say hello to Nigel and Boris. And Raab and Rees-Mogg doing their best to help out. The dollar is down to about 1.25 again. Add in 20% VAT (US sales tax is not displayed in the price), the cost of European consumer protection laws, and that's what you get.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: Exchange rate

        Boris and Co's efforts will not do anything to drop VAT (might even increase it). The consumer protection laws are not something I would want to lose and the state of the weak pound is down to the,.

        1. Updraft102 Silver badge

          Re: Exchange rate

          The consumer protection laws are not something I would want to lose

          That's fine, of course, but they come at a price. When you take out 20% VAT, then convert to dollars, you're at about $1090 US, so you're paying $90 for the consumer protection.

          1. nanchatte

            Re: Exchange rate

            You're making assumption that the price difference basically consumer protection?

            No, it's that people in the UK will pay that difference.

            It's always been the case. Nothing to do with consumer protection.

            All to do with UK companies fleecing the public over there and international companies doing the same by restricting after sale services to grey market devices.

            1. gnasher729 Silver badge

              Re: Exchange rate

              Oh no, another poor downtrodden Brit. They are all out to get you.

              The reality is that since Nigel and Boris started their project "self destruct", you got $1.50 for a pound, and now it is $1.25. And the VAT is 20%, which means out of every £999 a whopping £166.50 goes straight to HMRC. And yes, if your iPhone breaks down between one and two years when it's not covered by manufacturer's warranty, the seller in the UK has to fix it, when in the USA you are out of luck. That's close in value to a year of extra warranty,

    3. simon gardener

      Re: Exchange rate

      currently $999 = 762 + 20%VAT (the US price doesnt include sales tax) and you get £912

      It's not as bad as it was when £1 = $1.5, then $999 would have been £799 inc tax.

  13. David Austin

    Hoping SE2 Comes later...

    Probably just put on the site without an event or much fanfare; I like the 4 inch form factor, although I recognise I'm in the minority with that one (along with a desire for an iPad mini 5; In my mind, Bigger is not always better)

    However, not having an air quote "Budget" iPhone seems a bit remiss; £449 for a starting price (As opposed to an almost-reasonable £359 for the SE) is basically cutting price conscious customers off from jumping into the Apple ecosystem, and tempt them to upgrade later.

    Still, I don't run a trillion doller company, so I'm sure Apple have a solid gameplan. I just don't fully get it, right now...

    1. AndyMulhearn

      Re: Hoping SE2 Comes later...

      Probably just put on the site without an event or much fanfare; I like the 4 inch form factor, although I recognise I'm in the minority with that one (along with a desire for an iPad mini 5; In my mind, Bigger is not always better)

      I'm with you on the bigger is not always better. To be honest the 4" screen is a little too small for me to read books on but fine for pretty much everything else. And no one asks me if I have a canoe in my pocket or I'm just pleased to see them any more.

      However, not having an air quote "Budget" iPhone seems a bit remiss; £449 for a starting price (As opposed to an almost-reasonable £359 for the SE) is basically cutting price conscious customers off from jumping into the Apple ecosystem, and tempt them to upgrade later.

      When I got my SE I looked at Apple then spotted CPW had them for £259 so got one there. Then noticed that JL had them for £230 so shopping around saved me a bit of cash, just not as much as I could have done.

      £449 on the other hand is just a bit too rich for my blood, and CPW have the 7 for £549 which is odd when the SE was lower in price.

      Still, I don't run a trillion doller company, so I'm sure Apple have a solid gameplan. I just don't fully get it, right now...

      Me neither. I now have a family iTunes plan which is another £14.99 a month that I probably wouldn't be bothering without the SE. An iPhone isn't the only reason to get it but it's a strong one. if I were Apple, someone paying £249 for a phone and then another £120 or £180 a year for iTunes makes more sense than someone not paying £449 for the phone.

    2. DougS Silver badge

      I always thought the expectations for this launch were overblown

      There were analysts that seriously expected the new phones including SE 2, new watch, new iPads, new Macs, new AirPods, AND thought Apple would have some sort of surprise. They'd have needed to start at 8am to get through a list that long!

      The SE came out in the spring, I suspect that's when we'd see an SE 2. Maybe they discontinued it to make sure all the resellers run out of stock before they replace it. They probably wouldn't want to get stuck holding thousands of SEs in inventory once the SE 2 is released.

  14. matjaggard

    Homework

    "iPhone 8 prices started at £699 or £849"

    Well which is it? It a price can't "start at" two values!

    1. 2+2=5 Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Homework

      "iPhone 8 prices started at £699 or £849"

      Well which is it? It a price can't "start at" two values!

      It's one of those weird, quantum probablistic effects.

      The phone comes with a free cat in the box. When you open the box you find out whether the cat is alive or dead. If the cat is dead then the extra £150 pays for the cat's funeral.

  15. Zippy´s Sausage Factory

    Time to buy an SE. My last iPhone, probably. No jack socket and I jump ship to another platform.

    1. Allonymous Coward

      Giffgaff have the 32GB SE for £199 (+ £15 "goodybag" which is their monthly prepay offering & I think you avoid if you're already a subscriber).

      That's as cheap as I've seen them anywhere - I was sorely tempted when in the market for a new phone a few days ago.

    2. Tippis

      Quite so. It has a better form factor than any of the subsequent models and infinitely more clever and elegant security system than any of the modern ones. Of course they had to cut it loose.

    3. DougS Silver badge

      Better jump platforms quick

      Looks like you can add OnePlus to the list pulling the 3.5mm connector, which is expected to be gone on the 6T. They just introduced a $20 USB-C "Bullet" earbud.

      In a couple years, I suspect it will be really hard to find a phone that still includes the 3.5mm jack.

      1. MrMerrymaker

        Re: Better jump platforms quick

        Oneplus have basically lost my custom, and I'm on a 5, I started with the 1, then got the 2 when the 1 got nicked. So you could say I'm a loyal customer. Though...

        - Notch

        - Upward trending prices

        - No headphone socket

        ... Is why my loyalty is gone. Methinks in a couple of years, I'll be looking for a Xiaomi.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I recently got a mint condition A 64GB SE for the wife with little hands, it was £119. Maybe those deals will be hard to find now you can't buy a new one anymore. Lots of people still love the smaller handset.

    1. DougS Silver badge

      You'll be able to buy it for months - a lot of carriers were buying them by the boatload. Dropping the SE before introducing the SE 2 (assuming there will be an SE 2) makes sense so they aren't caught out with tons of inventory that won't be worth nearly as much when the SE 2 is introduced.

  17. armyknife

    Conspicuous consumption FTW.

    Why not just up the price on the next model to that of a small family car and see if it sticks?

    1. WallMeerkat Bronze badge

      Re: Conspicuous consumption FTW.

      I've bought plenty of half decent cars for less than the £1499 of their mobile phone.

  18. Bavaria Blu
    Go

    Go AAPL go!

    My modest 7 shares in Apple are up £24 today. Might be a while before I can afford to buy an iphone though!

    1. nanchatte

      Re: Go AAPL go!

      In 2005, a then new friend of mine with a wedge of spare capital was looking to invest in tech although he was not tech savvy. He came to me for some advice about what companies I thought were on the cusp of making it big.

      Apple had just released the Mac mini or something like that, IIRC, and I was somehow convinced that this showed a new, refreshing direction for Apple and that they would suddenly break into the mainstream.

      That sucker only went and bought about 2000 shares in AAPL. (I think he spent $10k at the time).

      You know what they say, a fool and his money are easily parted...

      ...Oh hang on...

  19. MMR

    Huh

    £1500 for a phone? Sheesh. Not so long ago I sold my perfectly good Nissan for £750.

    I inhereted an iPhone 6S and while I admit it's a very good phone there isn't a lot (if anything) that does better than a much cheaper Android phone.

  20. The Onymous Coward

    Is it just me?

    Apple have now killed off my favourite laptop form factor (the old Macbook Air) and now my favourite phone form factor (iPhone SE)

    I'd have paid good money for a retina Air with 16GB of RAM, and I'd pay good money for a smaller phone with up to date specs, but Apple won't make them. Shirley I'm not alone...?

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    TL;DR but ...

    it's not a phone. It's a statement. It's a lifestyle choice.

    And while we are rubbing our eyes, it's worth noting the really nasty news underlying this. News that would have politicians shitting in their pants, if politicians had any sort of brain.

    This is the logical progression of "generation rent" (which is not an isolated UK phenomenon).

    When the younger generations realise there's fuck all point in saving for a deposit on a house you'll never buy, then you'll look elsewhere to splash the cash. Why not a £1,500 phone ?

    This is why there's more travel and "year" outing amongst the youth.

    1. DougS Silver badge

      Re: TL;DR but ...

      I was thinking the same thing. Millennials can't afford a house and the ones who live in the city don't even want to own a car. Probably for more than a few an iPhone or Samsung Galaxy is their most valuable possession.

      Besides, like I always say - I use my phone a minimum of two hours a day, and often more. Let's call it 1000 hours a year. Even upgrading every year and throwing your old phone in the trash is only $1/hour, if you upgrade every other year and trade in your old iPhone for 50% of its value I'm looking at 25 cents an hour.

      People pay far more for an RV they only use a couple dozen days a year, or a TV for their patio they only watch while they're grilling.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: TL;DR but ...

        Boy, you geezers sure have swallowed the news media's 'millenial' bashing wholesale.

        The only iPhone users I know are in their mid to late 40s and early 50s...

        But yeah, I don't doubt the iPhone is used by younger folk, but assuming everyone younger is the same?

        This is age, having a go at youth... Shame on you boys for using stereotypes. Neither of your points needed the age-bashing element.

        1. DougS Silver badge

          Re: TL;DR but ...

          I own a business that employs a bunch of 20-somethings, so I'm pretty familiar with them and they do fit most of the stereotypes. Most of them have iPhones, too.

          If you think it is mostly 50 year olds who have iPhones and the younger crowd have Android, you are seeing a totally different demographic than I am in this college town (the students overwhelmingly have iPhones)

        2. JimmyPage Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: the news media's 'millenial' bashing wholesale.

          Shame you didn't bother to stop and process what the poster was saying. It wasn't a value judgement (although it says a lot about you that you read it as such).

          Seemed a statement of fact to me. Millenials are growing into a world where they won't be able to buy houses (not their fault). They are therefore deciding to spend their money as they see fit, rather than in the manner to which the previous generations would have understood. Again, no judgement.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: the ones who live in the city don't even want to own a car.

        Aged 22, my lad knows more people who don't have a licence than those who do (including him). Cheaper to Uber everywhere than run a car.

        Again, something that should cause car manufacturers to shit their pants.

  22. nanchatte

    I have found my sweet spot and it's two ranks down from bleeding edge Apple gear.

    The iPhone 8 i got last year might be stuffy but in a 2 year contract with Japan Softbank it was half the price of the iPhoneX that a few of my colleagues purchased.

    There was no way I was going to pay an extra 500 smackers in US money for what basically amounted to an OLED screen with a fucking great wedge cut out of it and an infrared LED.

    I'll admit, I have always been liberal with my cash when it comes to tech - and perhaps a bit too liberal when it came to Apple - but recent fruity devices are starting taking the piss even more than usual.

    Sorry, Apple, I moved to the second hand desktop/laptop market after you shat on your techie customers in 2012 by glueing everything together tighter than a nun's chuff so that nothing can be upgraded at home and now it looks like I'm moving to the second hand phone market, too.

    $1T... Mental.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    You want HOW much?

    Bwa Hahahahahahahahahahhahhhahhaha

    *Gasp*

    Not just no but FUCK NO.

  24. ronya_t

    Well, you don't become a trillion dollar company by catering to people's sensible side, do you?

  25. mistergoodbytes

    One area where Samsung exceeds Apple is in digital payments. Apple requires a vendor have Apple Pay, and the same for Android's Google Pay. Samsung Pay requires nothing except that a vendor accept credit cards. This being the US,a lot of old school scan stripe readers are still in use, and Samsung can even use those. More than a couple of US vendors have been extremely amazed that 'You paid with your phone?' meaning that they have little knowledge of the process and will probably not be expanding their payment options any time soon. Samsung does not require them to do so. I really, really like not being trapped in an ecosystem with very limited support, be it Apple or Android.

    1. bygjohn

      This is down to the US being behind on switching to up to date card readers (I believe because the retailer has to buy the kit?).

      In the UK, you can use Apple Pay and Android Pay anywhere you can use a contactless card, which is an awful lot of places these days. Places that don't do contactless are rapidly becoming a novelty here.

      Most retailers have also dropped the £30 limit for devices (not for cards) due to the extra authentication they provide (fingerprint or face recognition).

      There's no lock-in, either (for payments): if you switch phones, you have to deregister cards from the old device anyway and re-register on the new one, so platform is largely immaterial.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And next year's models....

    Will be known as the Wretched Excess, and the Excessively Wretched Excess. And we'll still buy em.

  27. simon gardener

    No surprise the SE vanished

    Exactly one month ago I brought a brand new SE from GiffGaff for £199. Lots of stores were selling it for £250, I think John Lewis had it at £270 while Apple were still pricing it at £350. Apple doesn't give its retailers that much of a margin on their devices so it was clear they were using third parties to clear the supply chain of the SE.

    Its a fantastic device and for someone with fairly small hands like me the only attractive phone in the lineup.

    Hopefully it'll last a good few years :)

  28. BebopWeBop Silver badge

    my SEis just going to have to soldier on.

  29. BebopWeBop Silver badge

    Could someone PLEASE allow us the old interface as an option - as I said at the time it was announced in beta - it is CRAP.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Fucking peasants.

    Sorry for swearing, but it does make me cross when people delude themselves that the latest beautiful iPhone won’t make their life immeasurably better. Stop moaning, and get in the queue, idiots.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Fucking peasants.

      Good to see Jobs has returned from beyond the grave, but you'd think he has better places to haunt.

      Might I recommend the ladies' showers in any gym?

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I dont get it

    I bought a Lumia 630. Can't remember how much, but cant have been much more than 200AUD, since I am a stingy old git and would refuse to spend much more than that on any phone.

    It still does everything I need it for. Makes calls, SMS, runs the few apps I need, gets great reception in the arse end of Oz. Can be used for web browsing in extremis, but I intensely dislike browsing on any mobile device unless I have no other option.

    The battery still lasts a week between charges and is replaceable when it finally dies. I can add additional storage. It connects directly to my PC to transfer files and has a headphone jack.

    To all the people who will no doubt start criticising for the mere mention of liking Windows phone OS. I really don't care. The UI on my last Android phone (a HTC) was abysmal and I had to charge it daily.

    When the Lumia finally dies I will probably have to hold my nose and get an Android, since I refuse to be tied to Apple and pay these insane prices. Hopefully not for a while though.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I dont get it

      Cool story bro.

  32. Teawain

    Digi-diction.

    I never imagined that being seen to have the latest phone would be such a dopamine driven phenomena.

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